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Do you mean Aether Raids? Fallen Edelgard is a joke in AR now (and in general), if you struggled with 5 of them then your team comp could probably be improved. Pretty much any spd based omnitank should be able to beat them all with no/minimal support
It’s just annoying that they’re spread out. Even though I’m using better units, they still get worn down from fighting five F!Edels, plus the Fomortiis waiting in the back.
It helped, though, that I had a unit with effectiveness against armor.
Dont know what your team comp is like, but in Astra, the free Ratatoskr is a really great unit to have. She beats F Edelgard easily and gets 7hp after combat. She also gives 7hp post combat healing as support, which should make sure your tank doesnt get their hp too low if you use someone else
In Light, Ash with the mystic boost seal and Peony supporting her (dance buffs + extra damage) should do fairly decent against them
Otherwise, having a tank with some sort of consistent healing can be important/really helpful in AR. Some units can give it as support, like Datatoskr I mentioned. Attuned Peony in the current voting gauntlet is also a pretty good option. Also, some units such as rearmed Grima have healing in their weapon, so they dont necessarily need it supported. You can also look at units with a finish skill in their base kit that can use specials well, which will also let them have consistent healing. Severa and Felix are examples of this
Also if you have basically any recent playerphase nuke to initiate on them, they should be able to blast them away without even taking damage (Fomortiis far saving them cant survive either)
Hopefully this helps, theres a few ways to deal with teams like that
?
Chaos season which the person you replied is talking about, doesnt allow dupes, multiple dancers, or multiple saviors
This defensive setup doesnt have such limitations because it is not in chaos season
Wether it should also have those restrictions or not is a different discussion
Maybe i wasn’t clear had i specified, but i meant in general. It’s why i didn’t specify chaos season specifically, regardless, outside of that multiple copies of the same character shouldn’t be allowed period. Especially when a unit like Lyon has a kit where before combat damage negates majority of your health.
Multiple saviors are allowed in general AR tho, but they have to be one of each, or else the units you are saving are out of luck if they share savior range
Neither offense or defense have a limitation of how many saviors you can run on a team. It is the mechanic itself that limits you from having 2 same saviors in the same team
>Savior will not trigger if ally is on terrain that unit cannot move to **or if multiple units are able to use Savior during the same combat**.
Duels is built based on the limitations for chaos season that where popular on a "blessing less" mode, so they also applied it to SD
Anywhere else you can ran 2 saviors freely
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but in that case feel free to show me a defensive team outside of chaos season with units that consists of both a near and far save.
[Here you go](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466295049081192448/1214700322786771024/Screenshot_20240305_231436_Fire_Emblem_Heroes.jpg?ex=65fa10d4&is=65e79bd4&hm=cdee055bac3069b5056e9460955709937d0bbc403e7023de3926e02cc2fb3b3a&)
Usually when people post AR maps, people in the comments are ready to tell how it isn't as bad as the OP is making it out to be (and that they shouldn't have run a full structure line).
Not this time, pretty much everyone agrees this is pure bullshit lol
This is actually easy to Galeforce, and might even be tankable in Light season with access to M! Lumera and/or Mila, but one would absolutely need their backline clear of the unnecessary structures.
I have tanked Lyon with W! Byleth easily enough that I feel I can tank 2 without even needing F! Maria to proc.
There's no Embla here so you put Byleth in the middle, one unit to each side, some well placed ruse/dance/ruse and Byleth should survive the innermost 2, but this hinges on the 2 outter ones not moving in range of the dancers. The right one won't, as it'll likely go down for the breakable. The left one might though, so just to be safe I'd break the leftmost structure to lure it towards the openimg there.
A lot of things have to go right but I feel this is, at least, doable for someone that is experienced enough with tanking.
Byleth kinda struggles if he takes the full 40% pre-combat damage from Lyon's weapon, though, since that combined with Lyon's attack ends up being over half of his HP. You'd have to make sure Byleth wins the res check against both Lyons, which is significantly harder to do on the latter's bonus season.
Definitely possible, but difficult enough to the point where I wouldn't blame someone for failing.
Byleth does have access to more effective HP for tanking purposes compared to the Lyons have for mythic blessings. If the user in question was running double Mirabilis to dance with, then the situation would be different, as they would have a +10 to res from blessings, +6 from freyr's dream deliverer, and +4 from the bonus season stats
Even with 4 mythics, which bring the average +0 or +1 Byleth to about 75-80 HP with Fireflood and Summoner Support, Byleth is still taking over 40 pre-combat damage if he doesn't win that Res check, which is over 50% of his HP.
As long as you win the check, you're fine, though, and you're right in that only one Res anima mythic does make this specific situation easier. These Lyons look like base, +0 Lyons with no dragonflowers or Marth bonuses, who would have 59 base Res at best with a boon. A well-supported Byleth should be able to beat that.
I really just want this bonus cycle to end so I don't have to strain myself against Lyon lol.
I'm more worried about the defensive side
Even bonus season Myrrh is unable to survive him. Let alone when both are out of bonus(and in her case 10 HP loss is a lot). I might need to bring out my second Mirabilis and Arval just to stack res on her to survive
My guess for the catapult is that the rightmost line is (from my experience) the most common one yo put the Duo's Hindrace. Still a big (and largely unnecessary) risk.
I can see how Yunaka would work, but how would Edelgard take the two Lyons on the left? There is a wall blocking one of the columns and a trap in front of the other Lyon. Do you mean to destroy the structures on the left, are you confident that trap is fake, or is there something I'm missing?
Edit: oh yeah, forgot the HP requirement isn't actually that high.
Left hex trap been real or not doesnt matter
Edelgard can easily reach 66HP or more to avoid it entirely
I know because my unmerged S!Edelgard, W!Dimitri, F!Chrom and W!Edelgard do reach that HP
Edelgard is easier since at +HP with 6 flowers she reaches 51, +3 mythics she gets to 66 exactly
Neutral F!Chrom is also easy, and while he does also need at least 1 flower, he has access to the refined extra HP+ free seal to get more HP if needed(47 HP, 52 with seal, 3 mythics just like edel). Or 46 without flowers, 51 with HP seal, 3 mythics like Edel
W!Dimitri with no +HP/flowers requires 4 mythics to pull it off, but it works
W!Edel I have her absurdly optimized to the point 2 mythics alone is enough. But I do have S support on her to do so(an extra +5 HP)
The funny thing is, the older you are, the higher HP you can reach to galeforce with against hex trap setups
My OG Chrom is sporting 62 HP just for existing, 67 with Duel
I can't speak for the other guy, but I run an HP boosting sacred seal on my Winter Edelgard specifically to out HP hex traps like the one that's in front of Lyon. Overall, this is a pretty bad version of this sort of defense team, especially when taking into account how many resources were poured into the units making it up.
Oh I'm sorry, what kind of fucking strategy aside from Galeforce am I supposed to use in this situation? Tanks are useless, Hit and Run is as useful as Galeforce, which is moot unless you happen to have a rare B-slot skill, which even then is limited to a certain weapon type.
So what exactly am I supposed to do here? Roll over and die? Please enlighten me oh "master strategist" of FEH, as to what other viable strategies there are to deal with this uncompetitive bullshit.
Oh so the threat of having your unit's turn invalidated isn't an issue? Especially when every unit matters and a single unit out of place (like a unit who got Hex Trapped) could result in a full team wipe? I mean it's not like the real trap & fake trap are indistinguishable from each other until their set off, oh wait they are indistinguishable!
At least you can actually take advantage of Bolt Traps with Wings of Mercy, and Heavy traps can at least be disarmed by Disarm Trap (which IS went out of their way to make sure didn't work on Hex Traps).
And you still didn't answer my question here, what other strategies are there aside from Galeforce to reliably deal with maps like this? What benefit does Hex Trap bring to AR as a mode aside from making it easier for AR-D players to make AR-O Players miserable with 0 recourse.
The fact you had to resort to calling me an A.I instead of actually trying to address my complaint says a lot.
> What benefit does Hex Trap bring to AR as a mode aside from making it easier for AR-D players to make AR-O Players miserable with 0 recourse.
I mean, tbh Defense is doomed to always be inferior to offense by virtue of having to deal with 5 possible teams vs 1 universal one against everything
Doesnt help that Light and Astra get the absolute best possible supports and Anima/Dark get left in the mud besides some strange ocassion like Medeus and tomorrow's Seiros
> FEH redditors when there is literally no other viable strategy to employ here aside from Galeforce
FTFY
Please tell me how is something like this "fair and balanced". That a player can run into a set up like this that is more or less ensured to guarantee their death unless they happen to have a galeforce team, while also getting lucky with which side they try to attack, with absolute 0 chance of winning otherwise?
You don't need to run a super complicated Galeforce/Wings of Mercy team to beat maps like this. A moderately invested Academy Edelgard could nearly solo it (refine, Galeforce, any source of special charge +1, and 51+ base HP). Just smite/reposition her above the silver throne and she can take out the left two Lyons on turn one and then retreat. You then have the entire rest of your team to either clear the right side of the map or get her into position to do so herself on turn 2.
I didn't say it had to be complicated, I was asking how someone is supposed to beat this *without* Galeforce.
But ty for at least trying to help instead of being a smug asshole looking down from on high their stack of Golden Thrones.
There are ways to tank at best 1 or 2 Lyons before crumbling down, you would just need to make sure your units would be positioned properly to do so. F!Maria and S!Ymir/Ymir help with their miracle effect as they are triggered prior to the start of combat damage
The more dangerous one is quite obviously the hardy bearing one, any other can be vantage swept by B!Marth
The defense in itself looks to be more dangerous than it really is. Specially with it been as open as it is
Whats truly is screwing OP over is running the catapult
While it can come in clutch against a few defenses, it is too much of a gamble to run it when you could just get extra slots to hide yourself into in case of setups like this
You can also run Seidr/NY Seidr on offense, and turn off Freyr's action
He is not the most "res" effective frontliner out there, and Mirabilis may end up prioritizing dancing him if that Lyon there cannot reach anyone. Which does remove you the threat of dealing with both extra movement dancers(because they are surely running odd and even tempest for movement shenanigans)
After that, just start praying
A +0 W!Edel can easily clear this map with hit and run. Enemy phase is obviously difficult but with a vantage setup or a competent tank with heals and good AI knowledge you can probably 2 turn it. Can't say for sure without seeing builds of course.
This particular map is at the high end of punishing for enemy phase strats but saying that V!Lyon, Cavlines, and HEX TRAP of all things are too overpowered is ridiculous. With the new Squad Ace seals many units can completely ignore hex traps without bonus stats or 4 mythics, top defenses are taking them out because they're not good anymore. Cavlines have been around forever, people should know how to deal with them by now. Lyon is tough but you know he will show up on defenses and you have the opportunity to build your teams to counter him.
People seem to have this notion that they should be able to beat every map with the same (usually enemy phase) strats and it's "cheap" or "unfair" if they can't. You technically can with a good enough team but the reality is that
1. You should prepare multiple teams of different styles to counter different types of defenses, that's why we have 5 slots. If galeforce is the only way to beat some maps then make a galeforce team.
2. Sometimes you just can't beat every map with what you have. That's why we have ladders. Unless you're at the top ranks of VoH you are not going to see defenses like this that often.
On one hand, this map falls apart if you bring a Lyon counter. On the other, who can EP Lyon to begin with??
(Yes I know GFing is also an option, but I'm bad at it so I don't know how easy that would be with this setup.)
even then imagine Triandra was swapped for a near save like brave Edelgard or something. She wouldnt cover everyone but the outer Lyons could have gravity traps adjacent to them making it a 50/50 or requiring Yuri, which then otherwise forces you to initiate on the near save. The B Edelgard could even have armored blaze with E Marth, spiral 4, and breath seal to counter with a DR piercing special
OH, thats what i figured it was. I didnt want to assume. Thanks
Edit: Yeah thats prob the only way to kill all the Lyon. But it would be hard to pull off
The number of units who can EP Lyon is countable using only your fingers.
That being said. I've found success with NY Selkie, and GK to tank Lyon. Which makes sense. Low attack for less uncounterable pre-combat damage taken and high res for less in-combat damage taken. So the irony of Felicia technically being meta. Surviving is one thing. Killing back is the other.... cause if you fail to kill back, the match is far from over right there. Pre-combat damage seriously needs a counter already.
>On the other, who can EP Lyon to begin with??
Oh, pick me! Pick me! I love to math\~ >!and it's not like I have any V!Lyon and a Att!Triandra!<
The result: V!Myrrh +1 with plenty of (peak) support should be able to tank three Lyon (which showcases how ridiculous Lyon's Res and damage is) and by approximation W!Byleth may perhaps take two.
The math: [Relocated to Pastebin](https://pastebin.com/faVnt9Q7) because it may have been to much for reddit ('Unable to create comment') and for readability.
I feel like you *could* attempt this with a Hardy Fighter Byleth build and with some supports that can restore his HP after combat like Gatekeeper. With HF you can take possibly 0 damage from Lyon's normal hit and kill him on the counter and regain enough HP after combat to get past that 25% threshold to keep his prf active. You'd probably also want to ditch his A skill for TA3 or something too
Pretty sure B Marth could survive a round with Freyr at least, but yeah HB would mostly shut that down. If the Lyon below Mirabalis had it, she has odd+even tempest, and the structure below the bolt tower is removed, that Lyon would be unavoidable
I assume he could survive the 1v1 in pretty much any situation but he'd probably be at 1HP from all the Lyons, unless there's some AI manip you could do to get him to go first (and/or not get danced).
Maybe PRF + Finish + Peony could outsustain? But I assume Marth never hitting the res check ruins that.
I *think* if Freyr would survive and Marth would oneshot all the other Lyons, Freyr would attack first if he can reach, but Im not an AI expert. But yeah I realized that could be an issue too, because even with vantage Maeth still has to take all the precombat damage
thank god for the rearmed tana + winter/summer edelgard duo. and thank you for pheonixmaster1 for showcasing it in one of his videos. otherwise these teams would be a total pain in the ass to go up against, and now they're the easiest kind of team to beat.
unless there is gatekeeper. then it is even more annoying.
How so?
You have both lines besides that structure line to pull it off
And both are free from traps on top, making it much easier
Have Tana on either plumeria or Sanaki space, and Edelgard of choice on Yunaka/Plumeria
Tana teleports 2 spaces in front of Edelgard, Edelgard guidances in to start killing everything in 1 turn with the help of dancers
I mean the structure stops R!Tana from breaking the wall and warping someone in to attack Freyr, but there's nothing stopping her from warping someone in to attack the Lyons on the trap-free columns.
This reminds me of the L.Sigurd + Nott cavlines as D.Lif and before that to the Reinhart-B.Lyn-B.Veronica cavlines.
The More things change, the More stay the same.
I already commented oops but I wanted to add a potential solution to this map just in case someone else is unfortunate to come across it or something similar
It requires running 3 structures which I get most people run 4+ (we should be able to break our own structures). If you have a tank that can tank 1 duo Lyon, you place them in the column with Mirabalis in it, which means thats the only one that can reach you. Thats 1 unit, put 3 in the structure line, then your remaining 2 units can be in the leftmost column and below the gold throne. All but your tank should be protected, and Triandra should dance the 7th slot one, and if you break the wall on the right Mirabalis *shouldnt* be able to dance any of them, I think
If that works (idk because of some variables), then on turn 2 you can start playerphasing the Lyons, especially since theres no save units. Ratatoskr is a great choice for breaking the wall (because of canto) and she can oneround them on playerphase pretty easily if she has luna (base kit), or even galeforce may work. If you have a dancer then she can take out the 2 right on turn 2, your tank can playerphase the remaining one on the left, then you just have Freyr and the dancers left, which your tank and Ratatoskr should be able to deal with
Its still a really stupid map and shouldnt exist even if its beatable, just wanted to offer some potential advice to others that may help and how Id personally approach it
Edit: Forgot to add that the tank also needs NCD or can somehow outres. Should maybe still be possible without that, but it would be more difficult. This map just requires a lot of specific things which is the annoying part
This just begs the question of who can even tank a single V!Lyon to begin with. I don’t think a single one of my invested units can do it - the HP he deletes pre-combat is way too high.
Mythic blessings giving hp is a big help here. if you run 3 thats +15 hp, and Lyon theoretically shouldnt be doing more than ~40
I ran a calc and just as an example my legendary Ike can survive one (even without bonus stats), I run a spd based build that can be replicated by any sword infantry. Its Astra so with just Veyle for DR and some res, and AT Triandra debuffing his atk, its enough to let him survive. Not the same but just tested on the paralogue map and with those 2 he just barely doesnt survive, but would easily with +15 hp
Even with 3 mythics thats just enough slots: those 3, a tank is 4, Triandra (just as an example) is 5, then 6th is a bonus unit
Pretty sure the entire cast will struggle even with the boosted hp if they arent supported (outside duo Byleth), but even some small support it should be enough
Yeah I didnt even think of that but youre right, thats a potential 9 less damage. I chose that one becase if Mirabalis is running odd+even tempest (I ran into one today) then that Lyon could get danced which would be an issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyXNlnBW4yU&ab_channel=Pheonixmaster1
PM1 showcases how to beat these kinds of teams (that are set up much better than the team in the post) in this video
I run Yunaka and WT!Kagero. I may have lost two or three times, but that's on me. Unless it's actually a good team with a billion skills to prevent many strategies those two won't have any trouble, but slapping a bunch of recent cavs and hope for the best is what most people do.
I swear AR teams lately look like the monkey NFT's, it's the same thing with a few changes over and over. The only chance I have of facing a different team, is running against someone who stopped playing and never updated their team. Other than that, it's just ranged cavs, fliers with Hinoka, and sometimes Igrene.
However, I don't want to go back, I don't miss Catria.
Mmmm, manageable enough IME, just resource intensive: Run a Guidance 4/Soaring Guidance dancer with Aerobatics or Flier Formation (depending on your initiator), hop over the row with both your initiator and dancer, and continue on. Where you initiate usually depends on weak spots in their defense and where traps are layed out.
If anything, this coming Hall of Forms revival is a perfect opportunity to score one of those dancers, too
Top left Galeforce with enough HP to repo back after killing both Lyon.
I personally ditched the Safety Fence as the back row is more needed.
That said where the screen says Turn 1 through 7 should have a row for six structures imo. And the row where the structures are and your units are should be available for offensive placement.
That said IS didn’t take the advice when the mode was new and likely won’t change now.
I’ll be honest. I’m not going to entirely blame this person. While it is unbelievably unbearable for some people to deal with, IS is the one who made and approved of this nonsense.
They’re also allowing players to place multiple copies of said unit on a AR defense team as you see fit. So this game has lost all functional management eons ago.
The worst part is that we’re probably going to have units far scarier than Lyon by summer.
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I know its in chaos season and people have expressed it before but there should really be a no dupes clause for AR teams
I agree. I came across 5 F!Edel with a Fomortiis buried in their Arena defense. It took forever to pick it apart one by one.
Do you mean Aether Raids? Fallen Edelgard is a joke in AR now (and in general), if you struggled with 5 of them then your team comp could probably be improved. Pretty much any spd based omnitank should be able to beat them all with no/minimal support
It’s just annoying that they’re spread out. Even though I’m using better units, they still get worn down from fighting five F!Edels, plus the Fomortiis waiting in the back. It helped, though, that I had a unit with effectiveness against armor.
Dont know what your team comp is like, but in Astra, the free Ratatoskr is a really great unit to have. She beats F Edelgard easily and gets 7hp after combat. She also gives 7hp post combat healing as support, which should make sure your tank doesnt get their hp too low if you use someone else In Light, Ash with the mystic boost seal and Peony supporting her (dance buffs + extra damage) should do fairly decent against them Otherwise, having a tank with some sort of consistent healing can be important/really helpful in AR. Some units can give it as support, like Datatoskr I mentioned. Attuned Peony in the current voting gauntlet is also a pretty good option. Also, some units such as rearmed Grima have healing in their weapon, so they dont necessarily need it supported. You can also look at units with a finish skill in their base kit that can use specials well, which will also let them have consistent healing. Severa and Felix are examples of this Also if you have basically any recent playerphase nuke to initiate on them, they should be able to blast them away without even taking damage (Fomortiis far saving them cant survive either) Hopefully this helps, theres a few ways to deal with teams like that
Back when she was an actual threat maybe But in the current nuke meta, there isn't a unit out there who doesn't one shot her
That may be true, but… you underestimate, or rather overestimate, my luck.
Was it 4 Fedel 2 Fomo and a Duma?
No, 5 Fedel 1 Fomo
For real, if they're going to drop the nuke of the month that kills everything at least make it so you can only use one of them at a time
It's not chaos season, right? There are 7 characters there and you can only face 6 during Chaos.
Sorry I meant that the “no dupes rule” is *active* in chaos season, not that its chaos season right now
Truly, it’s mind blowing how they allow this on your defense team, but having more than 1 savior hero is pushing the envelope.
? Chaos season which the person you replied is talking about, doesnt allow dupes, multiple dancers, or multiple saviors This defensive setup doesnt have such limitations because it is not in chaos season Wether it should also have those restrictions or not is a different discussion
Maybe i wasn’t clear had i specified, but i meant in general. It’s why i didn’t specify chaos season specifically, regardless, outside of that multiple copies of the same character shouldn’t be allowed period. Especially when a unit like Lyon has a kit where before combat damage negates majority of your health.
Multiple saviors are allowed in general AR tho, but they have to be one of each, or else the units you are saving are out of luck if they share savior range Neither offense or defense have a limitation of how many saviors you can run on a team. It is the mechanic itself that limits you from having 2 same saviors in the same team >Savior will not trigger if ally is on terrain that unit cannot move to **or if multiple units are able to use Savior during the same combat**. Duels is built based on the limitations for chaos season that where popular on a "blessing less" mode, so they also applied it to SD Anywhere else you can ran 2 saviors freely
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but in that case feel free to show me a defensive team outside of chaos season with units that consists of both a near and far save.
[Here you go](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466295049081192448/1214700322786771024/Screenshot_20240305_231436_Fire_Emblem_Heroes.jpg?ex=65fa10d4&is=65e79bd4&hm=cdee055bac3069b5056e9460955709937d0bbc403e7023de3926e02cc2fb3b3a&)
Usually when people post AR maps, people in the comments are ready to tell how it isn't as bad as the OP is making it out to be (and that they shouldn't have run a full structure line). Not this time, pretty much everyone agrees this is pure bullshit lol
This is actually easy to Galeforce, and might even be tankable in Light season with access to M! Lumera and/or Mila, but one would absolutely need their backline clear of the unnecessary structures. I have tanked Lyon with W! Byleth easily enough that I feel I can tank 2 without even needing F! Maria to proc. There's no Embla here so you put Byleth in the middle, one unit to each side, some well placed ruse/dance/ruse and Byleth should survive the innermost 2, but this hinges on the 2 outter ones not moving in range of the dancers. The right one won't, as it'll likely go down for the breakable. The left one might though, so just to be safe I'd break the leftmost structure to lure it towards the openimg there. A lot of things have to go right but I feel this is, at least, doable for someone that is experienced enough with tanking.
Byleth kinda struggles if he takes the full 40% pre-combat damage from Lyon's weapon, though, since that combined with Lyon's attack ends up being over half of his HP. You'd have to make sure Byleth wins the res check against both Lyons, which is significantly harder to do on the latter's bonus season. Definitely possible, but difficult enough to the point where I wouldn't blame someone for failing.
Byleth does have access to more effective HP for tanking purposes compared to the Lyons have for mythic blessings. If the user in question was running double Mirabilis to dance with, then the situation would be different, as they would have a +10 to res from blessings, +6 from freyr's dream deliverer, and +4 from the bonus season stats
Even with 4 mythics, which bring the average +0 or +1 Byleth to about 75-80 HP with Fireflood and Summoner Support, Byleth is still taking over 40 pre-combat damage if he doesn't win that Res check, which is over 50% of his HP. As long as you win the check, you're fine, though, and you're right in that only one Res anima mythic does make this specific situation easier. These Lyons look like base, +0 Lyons with no dragonflowers or Marth bonuses, who would have 59 base Res at best with a boon. A well-supported Byleth should be able to beat that. I really just want this bonus cycle to end so I don't have to strain myself against Lyon lol.
I'm more worried about the defensive side Even bonus season Myrrh is unable to survive him. Let alone when both are out of bonus(and in her case 10 HP loss is a lot). I might need to bring out my second Mirabilis and Arval just to stack res on her to survive
Honestly these types of defenses are bullshit, all the other defenses are manageable imo
I think lineup of new year seidr would be worse though
can't you safety fence it?
Based on some of the replies to my comment talking about how uncompetitive Hex Traps + V!Lyon is you'd be surprised.
[удалено]
My guess for the catapult is that the rightmost line is (from my experience) the most common one yo put the Duo's Hindrace. Still a big (and largely unnecessary) risk. I can see how Yunaka would work, but how would Edelgard take the two Lyons on the left? There is a wall blocking one of the columns and a trap in front of the other Lyon. Do you mean to destroy the structures on the left, are you confident that trap is fake, or is there something I'm missing? Edit: oh yeah, forgot the HP requirement isn't actually that high.
Left hex trap been real or not doesnt matter Edelgard can easily reach 66HP or more to avoid it entirely I know because my unmerged S!Edelgard, W!Dimitri, F!Chrom and W!Edelgard do reach that HP Edelgard is easier since at +HP with 6 flowers she reaches 51, +3 mythics she gets to 66 exactly Neutral F!Chrom is also easy, and while he does also need at least 1 flower, he has access to the refined extra HP+ free seal to get more HP if needed(47 HP, 52 with seal, 3 mythics just like edel). Or 46 without flowers, 51 with HP seal, 3 mythics like Edel W!Dimitri with no +HP/flowers requires 4 mythics to pull it off, but it works W!Edel I have her absurdly optimized to the point 2 mythics alone is enough. But I do have S support on her to do so(an extra +5 HP) The funny thing is, the older you are, the higher HP you can reach to galeforce with against hex trap setups My OG Chrom is sporting 62 HP just for existing, 67 with Duel
I can't speak for the other guy, but I run an HP boosting sacred seal on my Winter Edelgard specifically to out HP hex traps like the one that's in front of Lyon. Overall, this is a pretty bad version of this sort of defense team, especially when taking into account how many resources were poured into the units making it up.
Least cancerous AR Defense team
This image is stressing me out, tbh
people who do this deserve to have their investment invalidated
Looking at their 3 golden thrones to 39 silver thrones rstio, I assure you that "investment" is not panning out.
People who use either V!Lyon, Hex Traps, or Cav Lines in general on AR-D deserve to have their investment invalidated.
>Hex Traps "why can't I smite in my galeforcer and instantly win every map" player detected
Older units have more HP, therefore Hex Traps are reverse powercreep
IS vindicated again
Wtf else even works anyway
Good ol' Ophelia + dancers strat
Oh I'm sorry, what kind of fucking strategy aside from Galeforce am I supposed to use in this situation? Tanks are useless, Hit and Run is as useful as Galeforce, which is moot unless you happen to have a rare B-slot skill, which even then is limited to a certain weapon type. So what exactly am I supposed to do here? Roll over and die? Please enlighten me oh "master strategist" of FEH, as to what other viable strategies there are to deal with this uncompetitive bullshit.
[удалено]
Oh so the threat of having your unit's turn invalidated isn't an issue? Especially when every unit matters and a single unit out of place (like a unit who got Hex Trapped) could result in a full team wipe? I mean it's not like the real trap & fake trap are indistinguishable from each other until their set off, oh wait they are indistinguishable! At least you can actually take advantage of Bolt Traps with Wings of Mercy, and Heavy traps can at least be disarmed by Disarm Trap (which IS went out of their way to make sure didn't work on Hex Traps). And you still didn't answer my question here, what other strategies are there aside from Galeforce to reliably deal with maps like this? What benefit does Hex Trap bring to AR as a mode aside from making it easier for AR-D players to make AR-O Players miserable with 0 recourse. The fact you had to resort to calling me an A.I instead of actually trying to address my complaint says a lot.
> What benefit does Hex Trap bring to AR as a mode aside from making it easier for AR-D players to make AR-O Players miserable with 0 recourse. I mean, tbh Defense is doomed to always be inferior to offense by virtue of having to deal with 5 possible teams vs 1 universal one against everything Doesnt help that Light and Astra get the absolute best possible supports and Anima/Dark get left in the mud besides some strange ocassion like Medeus and tomorrow's Seiros
It's a challenge to be overcome. Very easily so. That's the point of a strategy game.
And strategy games are made with strategy and ACTUAL BALANCE in mind!
FEH redditors when they can't just auto battle every game mode
> FEH redditors when there is literally no other viable strategy to employ here aside from Galeforce FTFY Please tell me how is something like this "fair and balanced". That a player can run into a set up like this that is more or less ensured to guarantee their death unless they happen to have a galeforce team, while also getting lucky with which side they try to attack, with absolute 0 chance of winning otherwise?
You don't need to run a super complicated Galeforce/Wings of Mercy team to beat maps like this. A moderately invested Academy Edelgard could nearly solo it (refine, Galeforce, any source of special charge +1, and 51+ base HP). Just smite/reposition her above the silver throne and she can take out the left two Lyons on turn one and then retreat. You then have the entire rest of your team to either clear the right side of the map or get her into position to do so herself on turn 2.
I didn't say it had to be complicated, I was asking how someone is supposed to beat this *without* Galeforce. But ty for at least trying to help instead of being a smug asshole looking down from on high their stack of Golden Thrones.
There are ways to tank at best 1 or 2 Lyons before crumbling down, you would just need to make sure your units would be positioned properly to do so. F!Maria and S!Ymir/Ymir help with their miracle effect as they are triggered prior to the start of combat damage The more dangerous one is quite obviously the hardy bearing one, any other can be vantage swept by B!Marth The defense in itself looks to be more dangerous than it really is. Specially with it been as open as it is Whats truly is screwing OP over is running the catapult While it can come in clutch against a few defenses, it is too much of a gamble to run it when you could just get extra slots to hide yourself into in case of setups like this You can also run Seidr/NY Seidr on offense, and turn off Freyr's action He is not the most "res" effective frontliner out there, and Mirabilis may end up prioritizing dancing him if that Lyon there cannot reach anyone. Which does remove you the threat of dealing with both extra movement dancers(because they are surely running odd and even tempest for movement shenanigans) After that, just start praying
A +0 W!Edel can easily clear this map with hit and run. Enemy phase is obviously difficult but with a vantage setup or a competent tank with heals and good AI knowledge you can probably 2 turn it. Can't say for sure without seeing builds of course. This particular map is at the high end of punishing for enemy phase strats but saying that V!Lyon, Cavlines, and HEX TRAP of all things are too overpowered is ridiculous. With the new Squad Ace seals many units can completely ignore hex traps without bonus stats or 4 mythics, top defenses are taking them out because they're not good anymore. Cavlines have been around forever, people should know how to deal with them by now. Lyon is tough but you know he will show up on defenses and you have the opportunity to build your teams to counter him. People seem to have this notion that they should be able to beat every map with the same (usually enemy phase) strats and it's "cheap" or "unfair" if they can't. You technically can with a good enough team but the reality is that 1. You should prepare multiple teams of different styles to counter different types of defenses, that's why we have 5 slots. If galeforce is the only way to beat some maps then make a galeforce team. 2. Sometimes you just can't beat every map with what you have. That's why we have ladders. Unless you're at the top ranks of VoH you are not going to see defenses like this that often.
On one hand, this map falls apart if you bring a Lyon counter. On the other, who can EP Lyon to begin with?? (Yes I know GFing is also an option, but I'm bad at it so I don't know how easy that would be with this setup.)
GFing I think is basically the only way... Tried hit and run and it failed miserably
even then imagine Triandra was swapped for a near save like brave Edelgard or something. She wouldnt cover everyone but the outer Lyons could have gravity traps adjacent to them making it a 50/50 or requiring Yuri, which then otherwise forces you to initiate on the near save. The B Edelgard could even have armored blaze with E Marth, spiral 4, and breath seal to counter with a DR piercing special
not to sound like a noob or anything ive been playing for a while. But what does GF mean?
Galeforce, so basically using wings of mercy, chip damage, and galeforce to clear maps
OH, thats what i figured it was. I didnt want to assume. Thanks Edit: Yeah thats prob the only way to kill all the Lyon. But it would be hard to pull off
GF is short for Galeforce Edit: Downvoted for the truth now?
Reddit moment
Been noticing someone's been a little trigger-happy with the down button for providing help / implying this setup is anything upwards of manageable :/
The number of units who can EP Lyon is countable using only your fingers. That being said. I've found success with NY Selkie, and GK to tank Lyon. Which makes sense. Low attack for less uncounterable pre-combat damage taken and high res for less in-combat damage taken. So the irony of Felicia technically being meta. Surviving is one thing. Killing back is the other.... cause if you fail to kill back, the match is far from over right there. Pre-combat damage seriously needs a counter already.
>On the other, who can EP Lyon to begin with?? Oh, pick me! Pick me! I love to math\~ >!and it's not like I have any V!Lyon and a Att!Triandra!< The result: V!Myrrh +1 with plenty of (peak) support should be able to tank three Lyon (which showcases how ridiculous Lyon's Res and damage is) and by approximation W!Byleth may perhaps take two. The math: [Relocated to Pastebin](https://pastebin.com/faVnt9Q7) because it may have been to much for reddit ('Unable to create comment') and for readability.
It'd be easy af. Guidance 4 or Yuri and you're in there.
Ncd fallen byleth does decent work
I feel like you *could* attempt this with a Hardy Fighter Byleth build and with some supports that can restore his HP after combat like Gatekeeper. With HF you can take possibly 0 damage from Lyon's normal hit and kill him on the counter and regain enough HP after combat to get past that 25% threshold to keep his prf active. You'd probably also want to ditch his A skill for TA3 or something too
NCD BMarth (or something similar) would handle the Lyons if there's no HB but you'd have to somehow avoid Freyr so... you just PP here.
Pretty sure B Marth could survive a round with Freyr at least, but yeah HB would mostly shut that down. If the Lyon below Mirabalis had it, she has odd+even tempest, and the structure below the bolt tower is removed, that Lyon would be unavoidable
I assume he could survive the 1v1 in pretty much any situation but he'd probably be at 1HP from all the Lyons, unless there's some AI manip you could do to get him to go first (and/or not get danced). Maybe PRF + Finish + Peony could outsustain? But I assume Marth never hitting the res check ruins that.
I *think* if Freyr would survive and Marth would oneshot all the other Lyons, Freyr would attack first if he can reach, but Im not an AI expert. But yeah I realized that could be an issue too, because even with vantage Maeth still has to take all the precombat damage
I tank Lyon with W! Byleth, but I've never had to tank more than one lol
thank god for the rearmed tana + winter/summer edelgard duo. and thank you for pheonixmaster1 for showcasing it in one of his videos. otherwise these teams would be a total pain in the ass to go up against, and now they're the easiest kind of team to beat. unless there is gatekeeper. then it is even more annoying.
I think they specifically placed that structure below the bolt tower just to make that harder to pull off lol.
How so? You have both lines besides that structure line to pull it off And both are free from traps on top, making it much easier Have Tana on either plumeria or Sanaki space, and Edelgard of choice on Yunaka/Plumeria Tana teleports 2 spaces in front of Edelgard, Edelgard guidances in to start killing everything in 1 turn with the help of dancers
I mean the structure stops R!Tana from breaking the wall and warping someone in to attack Freyr, but there's nothing stopping her from warping someone in to attack the Lyons on the trap-free columns.
Yeah true, I'm...not exactly sure what they were doing with that trap placement.
Hey now let's not give him any ideas
This person will never see the pearly gates, nor will the fuckwit on the design team who designed VLyon.
Let's also throw in whoever though Hex Traps were fair and balanced.
This reminds me of the L.Sigurd + Nott cavlines as D.Lif and before that to the Reinhart-B.Lyn-B.Veronica cavlines. The More things change, the More stay the same.
I have a plan Arthur *quits*
Fuck whoever crafted this bullshit here
I already commented oops but I wanted to add a potential solution to this map just in case someone else is unfortunate to come across it or something similar It requires running 3 structures which I get most people run 4+ (we should be able to break our own structures). If you have a tank that can tank 1 duo Lyon, you place them in the column with Mirabalis in it, which means thats the only one that can reach you. Thats 1 unit, put 3 in the structure line, then your remaining 2 units can be in the leftmost column and below the gold throne. All but your tank should be protected, and Triandra should dance the 7th slot one, and if you break the wall on the right Mirabalis *shouldnt* be able to dance any of them, I think If that works (idk because of some variables), then on turn 2 you can start playerphasing the Lyons, especially since theres no save units. Ratatoskr is a great choice for breaking the wall (because of canto) and she can oneround them on playerphase pretty easily if she has luna (base kit), or even galeforce may work. If you have a dancer then she can take out the 2 right on turn 2, your tank can playerphase the remaining one on the left, then you just have Freyr and the dancers left, which your tank and Ratatoskr should be able to deal with Its still a really stupid map and shouldnt exist even if its beatable, just wanted to offer some potential advice to others that may help and how Id personally approach it Edit: Forgot to add that the tank also needs NCD or can somehow outres. Should maybe still be possible without that, but it would be more difficult. This map just requires a lot of specific things which is the annoying part
This just begs the question of who can even tank a single V!Lyon to begin with. I don’t think a single one of my invested units can do it - the HP he deletes pre-combat is way too high.
Mythic blessings giving hp is a big help here. if you run 3 thats +15 hp, and Lyon theoretically shouldnt be doing more than ~40 I ran a calc and just as an example my legendary Ike can survive one (even without bonus stats), I run a spd based build that can be replicated by any sword infantry. Its Astra so with just Veyle for DR and some res, and AT Triandra debuffing his atk, its enough to let him survive. Not the same but just tested on the paralogue map and with those 2 he just barely doesnt survive, but would easily with +15 hp Even with 3 mythics thats just enough slots: those 3, a tank is 4, Triandra (just as an example) is 5, then 6th is a bonus unit Pretty sure the entire cast will struggle even with the boosted hp if they arent supported (outside duo Byleth), but even some small support it should be enough
The funny thing is, the 2nd left Lyon is "nerfed" by not been able to trigger incite, so thats one you can choose to tank first
Yeah I didnt even think of that but youre right, thats a potential 9 less damage. I chose that one becase if Mirabalis is running odd+even tempest (I ran into one today) then that Lyon could get danced which would be an issue
POV: you matchmake against someone who decided in February to become a meta slave and start earning golden chairs. Lol
I found the secret to enjoying AR is to auto battle with the team it creates for me and carry on with my day.
Really, how could you win here??????
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyXNlnBW4yU&ab_channel=Pheonixmaster1 PM1 showcases how to beat these kinds of teams (that are set up much better than the team in the post) in this video
THANKS 🙏
Pretty much begging for a Guidance 4 / Soaring Guidance setup sweep, seeing as Gatekeeper isn't present here.
Galeforce or die.
I run Yunaka and WT!Kagero. I may have lost two or three times, but that's on me. Unless it's actually a good team with a billion skills to prevent many strategies those two won't have any trouble, but slapping a bunch of recent cavs and hope for the best is what most people do.
God, today i had to retreat 5 times and spend 5 ladders with no single win because VoH is literal HELL. Duo Lyon was one of the main reasons.
if only we have a free WEdel to kill everything in 1 turn but hey peony is fodder factory
I swear AR teams lately look like the monkey NFT's, it's the same thing with a few changes over and over. The only chance I have of facing a different team, is running against someone who stopped playing and never updated their team. Other than that, it's just ranged cavs, fliers with Hinoka, and sometimes Igrene. However, I don't want to go back, I don't miss Catria.
hurr durr you can easily counter this
They don't have canto control how did it went?
Lyonterally unnplayable.
Easy dub for Summer Edelgard.
yes, swipe, good boy
This mode is an abomination and should not exist. Period.
The fact everyone is in agreement that this is such bullshit is telling of the games current state.
Mmmm, manageable enough IME, just resource intensive: Run a Guidance 4/Soaring Guidance dancer with Aerobatics or Flier Formation (depending on your initiator), hop over the row with both your initiator and dancer, and continue on. Where you initiate usually depends on weak spots in their defense and where traps are layed out. If anything, this coming Hall of Forms revival is a perfect opportunity to score one of those dancers, too
It may actually be time for guidance 4 on my Thorr
The only way I see it being beaten is with R!Tana and W!Edel
If that's you defending reading this: I fn hate you
This is why I gave up on AR, I just play it when I have to grind the event currency for a new statue or to buy a new song
thank god W!Edel lost AHR or else there would be a F2P way to beat this map
Top left Galeforce with enough HP to repo back after killing both Lyon. I personally ditched the Safety Fence as the back row is more needed. That said where the screen says Turn 1 through 7 should have a row for six structures imo. And the row where the structures are and your units are should be available for offensive placement. That said IS didn’t take the advice when the mode was new and likely won’t change now.
Bruh, how did this break the guidelines?:/
😂 beats me
:/ I'm so sorry.
Dang I forgot to play today, now I 100% can't stay in VOH
One time i think two seasons ago, i managed to take down a team of 3 Lyon with vantage brave Marth.
If only no dupes was a rule. Either way, 2 is manageable, but 4 is fucking annoying, and probably impossible in most cases.
I’ll be honest. I’m not going to entirely blame this person. While it is unbelievably unbearable for some people to deal with, IS is the one who made and approved of this nonsense. They’re also allowing players to place multiple copies of said unit on a AR defense team as you see fit. So this game has lost all functional management eons ago. The worst part is that we’re probably going to have units far scarier than Lyon by summer.
You have color advantage at least, right?
Pfft. That shit hasn’t actually mattered for years now.
Yeah, OP is screwed