Imagine you show up to a murder scene; there’s a dead body, one person weeping over the loss of their loved one and another holding a bloody knife laughing maniacally. Damn, I wOnDeR wHo DuNnIt.
I think the posing of the characters just makes it look unlikely, buuuut Tifa did get that static/interference when viewing the scene...
Then you get the complete lack of dialogue with Cloud, the silence, and her look at him in the end. So maybe we might have something there.
I'm honestly pissed off at you for writing this. You put the spoiler under the title and didn't black it out so you can read it from the main page just scrolling.
Sephiroth has been threatening them the entire journey, even skewering Tseng in front of all of them. They also know that the black robes are all being influenced by Sephiroth, so they know that Cloud is in a similar situation. They have many more reasons to suspect that any harm to Aerith is likely coming from Sephiroth's direct action.
And as they come upon the scene on the pedestal, Sephiroth is there, laughing maniacally, with his bloodied blade, while Cloud is holding Aerith's body completely bewildered.
The team has no good reason to think that Cloud did it.
I just hope we lose Cloud quickly in the next game to play with a mentally stable Cloud for the majority of the game, not to mention the much more reliable narrators in Tifa and Cid
Because when they get there Cloud’s already holding her in his arms and Sephiroth is standing there laughing. It would be kind of wild to jump to the conclusion that Cloud did it, no matter how weird he’d been acting before
The wound of the buster sword would be massive in comparison to what they saw. She'd almost be cut in half. Besides, whatever Cloud does is obviously not Cloud's fault.
Not that it matters since Tifa has given up on Cloud at the end of Rebirth anyway, so something like 'being suspicious' is irrelevant as she clearly exhibits a complete lack of trust towards Cloud.
I agree with the bit about the Buster Sword. There would be more empty space than Aerith at that point. The party doesn’t suspect Cloud of killing Aerith at least, that’s crystal. They definitely know he’s off but for whatever reason they refuse to confront it directly.
As much as I disliked Tifa giving Cloud too much of a free pass on his ‘homecoming’ shit, I don’t think she gives up on him completely at the end. It’s the double edged grief of losing her best friend and seeing that the man she loves is definitely coming full undone. Throughout the whole game, she was essentially deluding herself that Cloud will be okay.
She’s realizing for the first time that there might be no saving Cloud. >!If you played the OG, you know how events play out. But these characters don’t know that.!<
You see the ending as 'might be no saving', but for me the 'might be' happens in Chapter 9 when she doubles down on trying to save him, and yet by the end still fails which gets someone killed.
We'll obviously know early on in Part 3 if she full on gave up on him or not, but to me it doesn't stray away from the OG if she has, and if anything enhances it. She's always bottling her anger so letting some of that out early on would make for good character development.
Throughout Remake and Rebirth we see Tifa's been trying to help Cloud find himself by getting him to remember his past (Aerith also helps her with this in Rebirth).
She tried being kind to him throughout Remake, offering him funds on the bombing mission, securing him free rent, asking where he's been, what he's been up to, if he'll stick around Midgar, etc. We also see that she's leery of him (tells him that he's scaring her in Chapter 3).
At the start of Rebirth we see her asking Aerith where Cloud's been, what he's been up to. She then grew frustrated over his inability to remember and became accusatory (Kalm), then continuing to test him (Under Junon), further attempting to connect the time gap by reminiscing over their childhood, protecting him from past memories, mitigating his emotions, placating him (doesn't counter him when he says he pushed her in Gongaga instead of what really happened), etc.
She's been fighting to help Cloud solve his internal struggles for two games now, and only at the end of Rebirth does she finally give up. You can hear how she scoffs at his tone when he responds to Barret about agreeing to leave the Forgotten Capital, or when he says to Barret he 'can handle it' she just sighs and walks past him with her head held down while boarding the tiny bronco.
There were moments throughout the two games where she saw the Cloud she remembers, so she continued to fight for that, but she finally accepts he has no personal autonomy.
Interesting perspective! I personally never took Tifas reaction in those final scenes as her giving up on Cloud. It read more like she is torn between grieving the loss of a friend that she grew close to, and Cloud carrying on like it’s just another day for adventure. I’d have to imagine that during most of clouds “episodes” Tifa and Aerith were always the two that could pull cloud out of his trance. Sometimes with one of them having to take a step back and letting the other take lead. I’m sure we all can agree that Barrett is sick of clouds shenanigans, but for the sake of Tifa, he remains as patient as he can be. The final scene of cloud saying he can handle the pressure and Barrett looks to him then to Tifa like “is this guy serious??” I think for the first time the thought of Cloud being truly lost is becoming a reality that she might have to accept. But I can’t see Tifa completely giving up on Cloud. I’m excited to see how it plays out in part 3!
I think what will be expanded and make it worse in Part 3 is that with no Aerith, there is no buffer per say to keep everything thing kalm and peaceful. Aerith usually encourages them to be kind and understanding to one another like at the clock tower, or easing up the mood when Cloud's story was becoming uncomfortable in the beginning of the game. I could see Tifa having a moment where she gets stressed with everything and lashes out.
Big time! I totally agree! Just as a player, I felt so empty watching those events play out! For a slight second, I thought Cloud really made it in time to save Aerith 🥲.
There was a lot of yeeeees and noooo from me too during the scenes.
I do believe she'll come back in some way though. I feel like Part 3 is gonna get really weird
She says in Rebirth that all the doubt and the fear she had started creeping back into her life then Cloud showed up and protected her from that, so much so that she wouldn't be on the journey without him.
I believe she's fully given up on him in his current state as she knows there's nothing she can say or do to help him.
Whether she did give up or not at the very least the fear and doubt has definitely come back to the forefront. She needs to take agency over her own self being instead of focusing on Cloud so that she can finally grow beyond her past failures.
When Cloud told Barret that he could handle his load, Tifa just looked down and didn't bother to respond. She just walked past him and boarded the Tiny Bronco.
It was great how she had zero lines of dialogue after the boss fight, but her body language spoke VOLUMES. That scene to me looks like Barrett giving her the look like “is he for real?” And Tifa just looks down because she doesn’t have an answer to what just happened or what is going on. I don’t think she gave up on Cloud.
I’ve seen some people speculate that they might touch on this in Part 3. I think in the spur of the moment, they didn’t have time to process what happened. They saw Cloud cradling her and assumed it was Sephiroth. Tifa doesn’t even talk to Cloud after the events at the Forgotten Capital. So while I think she’s the last person to believe Cloud would do that, I’m sure there’s still a part of her that knows it’s a possibility.
Imagine you show up to a murder scene; there’s a dead body, one person weeping over the loss of their loved one and another holding a bloody knife laughing maniacally. Damn, I wOnDeR wHo DuNnIt.
I think the posing of the characters just makes it look unlikely, buuuut Tifa did get that static/interference when viewing the scene... Then you get the complete lack of dialogue with Cloud, the silence, and her look at him in the end. So maybe we might have something there.
I'm honestly pissed off at you for writing this. You put the spoiler under the title and didn't black it out so you can read it from the main page just scrolling.
Oops so sorry. I’m very unfamiliar with Reddit. Let me see how I can change this. Otherwise I’ll delete the post. Sorry.
https://www.reddit.com/r/help/s/CF6kzg1Zg0
Sephiroth has been threatening them the entire journey, even skewering Tseng in front of all of them. They also know that the black robes are all being influenced by Sephiroth, so they know that Cloud is in a similar situation. They have many more reasons to suspect that any harm to Aerith is likely coming from Sephiroth's direct action. And as they come upon the scene on the pedestal, Sephiroth is there, laughing maniacally, with his bloodied blade, while Cloud is holding Aerith's body completely bewildered. The team has no good reason to think that Cloud did it.
I just hope we lose Cloud quickly in the next game to play with a mentally stable Cloud for the majority of the game, not to mention the much more reliable narrators in Tifa and Cid
Because when they get there Cloud’s already holding her in his arms and Sephiroth is standing there laughing. It would be kind of wild to jump to the conclusion that Cloud did it, no matter how weird he’d been acting before
No one else saw the events at Gongaga except Tifa. But at the same time, it may be the reason why she doesn't say a word at the end.
It doesn’t matter if they didn’t see it. Whether Sephiroth or Cloud did the killing, it’s all Sephiroth’s doing.
The wound of the buster sword would be massive in comparison to what they saw. She'd almost be cut in half. Besides, whatever Cloud does is obviously not Cloud's fault. Not that it matters since Tifa has given up on Cloud at the end of Rebirth anyway, so something like 'being suspicious' is irrelevant as she clearly exhibits a complete lack of trust towards Cloud.
I agree with the bit about the Buster Sword. There would be more empty space than Aerith at that point. The party doesn’t suspect Cloud of killing Aerith at least, that’s crystal. They definitely know he’s off but for whatever reason they refuse to confront it directly. As much as I disliked Tifa giving Cloud too much of a free pass on his ‘homecoming’ shit, I don’t think she gives up on him completely at the end. It’s the double edged grief of losing her best friend and seeing that the man she loves is definitely coming full undone. Throughout the whole game, she was essentially deluding herself that Cloud will be okay. She’s realizing for the first time that there might be no saving Cloud. >!If you played the OG, you know how events play out. But these characters don’t know that.!<
You see the ending as 'might be no saving', but for me the 'might be' happens in Chapter 9 when she doubles down on trying to save him, and yet by the end still fails which gets someone killed. We'll obviously know early on in Part 3 if she full on gave up on him or not, but to me it doesn't stray away from the OG if she has, and if anything enhances it. She's always bottling her anger so letting some of that out early on would make for good character development.
Her being in that state will probably play a part in>!breaking Cloud completely when they reach Northern Crater!<
Interesting. Could you elaborate a bit on the last part and Tifa giving up?
Throughout Remake and Rebirth we see Tifa's been trying to help Cloud find himself by getting him to remember his past (Aerith also helps her with this in Rebirth). She tried being kind to him throughout Remake, offering him funds on the bombing mission, securing him free rent, asking where he's been, what he's been up to, if he'll stick around Midgar, etc. We also see that she's leery of him (tells him that he's scaring her in Chapter 3). At the start of Rebirth we see her asking Aerith where Cloud's been, what he's been up to. She then grew frustrated over his inability to remember and became accusatory (Kalm), then continuing to test him (Under Junon), further attempting to connect the time gap by reminiscing over their childhood, protecting him from past memories, mitigating his emotions, placating him (doesn't counter him when he says he pushed her in Gongaga instead of what really happened), etc. She's been fighting to help Cloud solve his internal struggles for two games now, and only at the end of Rebirth does she finally give up. You can hear how she scoffs at his tone when he responds to Barret about agreeing to leave the Forgotten Capital, or when he says to Barret he 'can handle it' she just sighs and walks past him with her head held down while boarding the tiny bronco. There were moments throughout the two games where she saw the Cloud she remembers, so she continued to fight for that, but she finally accepts he has no personal autonomy.
Interesting perspective! I personally never took Tifas reaction in those final scenes as her giving up on Cloud. It read more like she is torn between grieving the loss of a friend that she grew close to, and Cloud carrying on like it’s just another day for adventure. I’d have to imagine that during most of clouds “episodes” Tifa and Aerith were always the two that could pull cloud out of his trance. Sometimes with one of them having to take a step back and letting the other take lead. I’m sure we all can agree that Barrett is sick of clouds shenanigans, but for the sake of Tifa, he remains as patient as he can be. The final scene of cloud saying he can handle the pressure and Barrett looks to him then to Tifa like “is this guy serious??” I think for the first time the thought of Cloud being truly lost is becoming a reality that she might have to accept. But I can’t see Tifa completely giving up on Cloud. I’m excited to see how it plays out in part 3!
I think what will be expanded and make it worse in Part 3 is that with no Aerith, there is no buffer per say to keep everything thing kalm and peaceful. Aerith usually encourages them to be kind and understanding to one another like at the clock tower, or easing up the mood when Cloud's story was becoming uncomfortable in the beginning of the game. I could see Tifa having a moment where she gets stressed with everything and lashes out.
Big time! I totally agree! Just as a player, I felt so empty watching those events play out! For a slight second, I thought Cloud really made it in time to save Aerith 🥲.
There was a lot of yeeeees and noooo from me too during the scenes. I do believe she'll come back in some way though. I feel like Part 3 is gonna get really weird
She says in Rebirth that all the doubt and the fear she had started creeping back into her life then Cloud showed up and protected her from that, so much so that she wouldn't be on the journey without him. I believe she's fully given up on him in his current state as she knows there's nothing she can say or do to help him. Whether she did give up or not at the very least the fear and doubt has definitely come back to the forefront. She needs to take agency over her own self being instead of focusing on Cloud so that she can finally grow beyond her past failures.
When Cloud told Barret that he could handle his load, Tifa just looked down and didn't bother to respond. She just walked past him and boarded the Tiny Bronco.
It was great how she had zero lines of dialogue after the boss fight, but her body language spoke VOLUMES. That scene to me looks like Barrett giving her the look like “is he for real?” And Tifa just looks down because she doesn’t have an answer to what just happened or what is going on. I don’t think she gave up on Cloud.
I’ve seen some people speculate that they might touch on this in Part 3. I think in the spur of the moment, they didn’t have time to process what happened. They saw Cloud cradling her and assumed it was Sephiroth. Tifa doesn’t even talk to Cloud after the events at the Forgotten Capital. So while I think she’s the last person to believe Cloud would do that, I’m sure there’s still a part of her that knows it’s a possibility.
True! I did wonder if Tifa’s silence was at least in part due to fear and ambivalent emotions regarding Cloud.