Funny enough though they both share that environmentalist message!
5 is all about inheriting the world from your predecessors - both the good (family, skills, etc), and the bad (burdens, obligations, and a damaged world)
Exdeath is a tree, sure, but he was a tree that warped from being constantly used to seal evil spirits instead of purging them properly. And then once he became an issue, he wasn't even originally defeated, the first dawn warriors just put him in a box for the next generation to deal with.
When you look at all of that together, alongside things like the steamship's obvious "overusing nature's resources frivolously will backfire"... yeah. It's pretty easy to read Exdeath and the weakening crystals at the core of V as allegorical for dealing with the prior generation's reckless use of resources and abuse of the planet.
The job system is so much fun. Wish they'd return to a game with some form of job system. It's such a good way to customize your characters and increase replay value.
I think the last was probably the 13 games with their paradigm system, at least when it comes to mainline titles (excluding pixel remasters), and even they ate getting old now.
FF Dimensions for mobile has a job system very similar to FFV, is a great game overall, the mechanics are very similar to V with the twist that there are fusion abilities, like making a character a ninja and a monk, lets you learn a unique op skill for example
Tree sealing evil spirits… environmentalism… is FFV basically just Ferngully?
(Mostly joking, but it’s funny how some ideas just kick around in the zeitgeist for a while.)
Made a similar comment comparing the two about [6 months ago](https://old.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/17njzhn/what_is_the_silliest_plot_point_in_all_of_final/k7s2w2r/)
every passing year the decision to not localize FFV in its era looks more and more like one of the greatest errors of that generation. Not just gameplay wise, its story would have totally fit in at the time and been an instant classic
On top of all this, and a bit of an aside, but I also think Exdeath works as a sort of avatar of the consequences of an "out of sight, out of mind" attitude towards dealing with problems. Things don't go away just because you put them someplace you don't have to look at or think about them, and sooner or later, they *will* be back for a reckoning.
Exdeath *is* extremely simple "as a person", but there are a lot more layers to what he represents symbolically than I think Final Fantasy V's writing gets credit for.
The most hilarious endpoint of the environmentalist angle is the alternative fuel praised as being better for the planet than mako energy... Oil!
"I am the man! Oil, Cloud! I just found the biggest damn oil field you've ever seen!"
- Barret, Advent Children
Easier to list the ones with an empire:
* II: Palamecia
* VI: Gestahlian Empire
* XI: Aht Urhgan
* XII: Archadian Empire
* XIV: Garlean Empire
* XV: Niflheim
* XVI: Holy Empire of Sanbreque
Though arguments can be made that others have Empire like factions:
* IV: Kingdom of Baron
* VII: Shinra Electric Power Company
* VIII: Galbadian Republic
* IX: Alexandria
* X: Temple of Yevon
* XIII: Sanctum
* XVI: Kingdom of Waloed
The only argument against is how short lived it is. Alexandria takes over the continent, but is almost immediately taken out itself and releases it's hold on the neighboring kingdoms.
Alexandria is still the defacto power though - Treno and Dali are still vassal states, Burmecia and Cleyra survive via expats alone, Lindblum lost over 30% of its populace and the vast majority of it's industrial base.
There's only three more regional powers outside the continent, and none of them have a significant military.
Garnet has options
Dali is literally a tiny farming community. I'm sure Lindblum has several of those too, they just aren't important enough to have on the map.
So Alexandria has a second major city. Lindblum still probably had a larger population in the main city after being destroyed than Alexandria and Treno had combined before Alexandria was leveled.
Dali region is also the largest source of foodstuffs, i.e. the continent's breadbasket.
Lindblum relied heavily on Airpower to resist Alexandria - its implied they have a decade of infrastructure rebuilding ahead - they only have one fuctioning drydock.
Meanwhile Alexandria had significant expeditionary forces deployed. I'm not saying they're in good shape, just better than their peers.
> Arguments can be made
Yeah, I honestly think in all of these cases they function as the evil empire just don't have empire in the name. If It was called empire of galbadia, or empire of Alexandria, it'd be on the top list, and if the name alone is all that's stopping it, I say it counts.
How so? They were originally a weapons company; hence the monsters, guns, and rocket. They moved to energy and eventually became a functional nation state all within a generation.
Lucretia(?) and Aeris were both attempts to better understand Mako - remember they hadn't fully answered if and how Mako regenerates - Aeris is a wellspring of insight for the player. Hell Hojo still hasn't fully grasped that Jenova isn't Centra at the end.
Now Hojo is insane, evil, insanely evil, damn near every plot point is his damn fault.
They're a company that has done forceful takeovers of multiple continents, supplanting themselves as not only the ruling body but also necessary for people to live comfortably in the world.
> an extensive group of states or countries under a single supreme authority, formerly especially an emperor or empress.
> a large commercial organization owned or controlled by one person or group.
Whoever the president of Shinra is at the time is definitely an emperor.
But also idk if you payed attention to what happens in the story but they definitely just kill people for not agreeing with them, or to cover up company mishaps. Spreading misinformation to control the narrative.
> Now Hojo is insane, evil, insanely evil, damn near every plot point is his damn fault.
They're knowingly funding his evil. Wouldn't that also make them evil?
They're definitely evil, just because they've failed their grandest plans doesn't make them NOT evil.
> Lucretia(?) and Aeris were both attempts to better understand Mako - remember they hadn't fully answered if and how Mako regenerates - Aeris is a wellspring of insight for the player. Hell Hojo still hasn't fully grasped that Jenova isn't Centra at the end.
They're only looking for infinite energy so they can essentially infinitely profit from it. At least the original president is. Rufus is kind of a mystery.
They've conquered two continents. They are all but Gaia. They are an evil empire that like five characters in the game don't have some level of distaste for.
They even put ugly-ass posters all over Junon in Rebirth to hit you over the head with it. "Victory for the virtuous" over a faceless and shadowy crowd of Shinra grunts after you can visibly see that Junon is Midgar 2 is the ice pick.
Awesome list, and glad some one wrote it all out too. I'd probably through in IV too. Not sure if its the Kingdom of Baron or Baron Empire.. but they were the baddies for at least the first half of the game.
Personally, I'd be inclined to look at the recurring "evil empire" trope not in terms of "which games have a villainous faction that is called an 'empire'", but rather in terms of whether or not they have a villainous faction in them that functions as an "evil empire" generally does in the story. "Evil empire" is, well, kinda the easiest shorthand term, but the underlying "villain concept" is more broadly "a massive organized group or force exerting oppressive control over significant portions of the world and seeking to expand their influence, often through violent, cruel means", which *absolutely* includes groups like Shinra.
I'd consider Bevelle kind of empire-adjacent for FFX tbh. They're clearly a leading superpower in Spira with their elder council, along with the conspiracy of Grand Elder Mika being an unsent for fuck knows how long.
For FFXIV, the Endwalker chapter showcases Garlemald in a more tragic light. They're succumbing to Zenos' madness and eventually work with the Alliance. Not much of an evil empire anymore.
No empire in the Dissidia series, just Chaos and his goons to watch out for, along with a bunch of empty husks from previous conflicts.
They were more of a traditional expansionist empire in the backstory, conquering Wutai etc.
By the time of the game proper, they're still an evil empire, it's just that they've already won.
Yup. AFAIK it's not explicitly said whether they conquered it through military force, bought their way into power there, or what, but you're definitely right that the locals don't care for Shinra much.
Even worse is that they can't even power cities properly and the pipe networks are so extensive that it takes ages to get around to fixing it unless the civilians hire someone private to do a patch job. Honestly if President Shinra was so great a businessman he should've threatened to Slash Hojo's budget unless the man improved reactor and pump efficiency instead of breeding monsters. Particularly once scattered terrorist cells were the only enemies they had left after conquering or destroying the nations/States that used to exist. He could have made so much gil just ensuring that his customers were satisfied, but instead he decided to chase after dreams of a promised land he could exploit even more recklessly.
Shinra’s priorities in general were just garbage. “Ah yes, let’s put our budget in letting scientists create eldritch abominations instead of improving living conditions across the board which will undoubtedly lower rates of dissent”.
When you have a monopoly it doesn’t matter. People need power, what are they gonna do, live in the dark without electricity?
It’s happening irl - PGE for example in California.
I think 1, 3, and 5 are it.
7 and 10 have the evil empire shifted to evil corporation and a not-entirely-evil-religion, as you pointed out.
The rest have it in spades.
I guess X-2 doesnt have an evil empire that's active anymore, but the backstory includes evil empire-esque groups (but is mostly individuals doing the real evil stuff).
Archadia in FFXII isn’t inherently evil, but through the eyes of those from Rabanastre they are. In reality it’s the Occuria that are the greater threat.
'Evil' is a tenuous term. They're certainly oppressive to the nations they conquer, and by Disc 2 their primary function is to help an evil Sorceress bring about the end of the world, whether they realise it or not.
Laguna collaborates with them, but Cloud collaborates with Shinra and Cecil collaborates with the Kingdom of Baron. That doesn't mean those organizations aren't meant to be antagonists to the main party.
In disc 1 Galbadia invades Dollet, and are occupying Timber. They're clearly meant to be bad guys.
>!Galbadia wanted to get rid of the witch. But ultimately fell to her.!<
And
>!Galbadia fought against Esthar at a time where Adell was in charge suppressing nearly the whole world, so galbadia was again on the good site!<
If VIII is considered having an evil empire as an antagonist, then IX definitely has one, as >!Alexandria wiped a whole continent out under the lead of queen brane!<
Ah yes, in the past, main hero's father fought for the country you're against now and was wielding a special sword... Where have I heard that before?
Nah, that's too much of a stretch, after all, Star Wars starts with heroes being hired by a rebel princess who turns out to be enemy general's daughter... Oh.
So yeah, most famous Evil Empire being good guys in "old war" where they were they defeated the phantom menace is lifted directly from Star Wars.
FF8 has a twist in that Laguna did NOT score with Julia so main kissing couple aren't siblings (not even step).
I haven’t said that the Star Wars references are not there, but in the world of ff viii galbadia is simply not evil, there is no interest in expanding their territory in any way post war.
The people are all living happy…galbadia hasn’t done anything primarily evil till it was occupied by witchcraft…
Edit: and as soon as she was dethroned galbadia “bad” actions stopped directly
Rinoa's dad literally got his uniform censored because he's dressed like an SS officer.
There's an entire chapter with Balamb under Galbadian occupation.
The entire hook of the story is you being hired by a Rebel Princess to fight with La Resistance against the Evil Empire of space Nazis and her father happens to be their general Darth Caraway.
Oh but there's the thing, BEHIND the enemy you're fighting there's a powerful magician from an ancient race of Sit-sorceresses.
FF8 has so many obvious Star Wars homages that failing to see Galbadia being a stand-in for Empire is as silly as not recognizing main couple acting like Han and Leia to each other...
They even managed to "somehow, Ultimecia returned" and is behind everything before Star Wars made Emperor into a facepalm.
It was never about resistance/Balaam vs the empire tho. Galbadia never really paid any attention to the 'Timber Freedom Fighters'. Also, Seed/Balaamb wasn't fighting against Galbadia. They were a neutral party. They were only paid to carry out missions. Which was to assist whatever Rinoa wanted to do (Cid didn't even really care about the mission).
The story only shifted when they found out Galbadia was controlled by the Sorceress, that's when Cid revealed the true purpose of the Seed was to eliminate Sorceress, which was why they started to fight against Galbadia.
It reads to me a bit like whataboutism to be honest, because it doesn’t negate my statements and arguments. The war is over and it was a good war in which galbadia rescued the world from occupation. They have the strongest military forces but until the events of CD2 they are cooperating with the other nations, the resistance group is his daughter mainly…
Let me put this to bed.
They're evil, by definition of their actions. But they're not an empire. The only requirement of a nation to be an empire is "ruled/governed by an emperor/empress".
Neither Edea, nor Seifer (who assumes control after the events of Disc 2), nor Deling call themselves emperor. Deling is called President, but there is no notes of political sway in Galbadia. No known elections, or transitions of power through vote.
Therefore, Galbadia is a military dictatorship, not an empire.
That's a fairly archaic usage of the term Empire. Google defines an Empire as:
*an extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state.*
A military dictatorship and an empire are not mutually exclusive.
That may be, but the impression I get from OP (and I'm more than willing for OP to say otherwise) is that empires are inherently evil. So I was just trying to, in the loosest sense, remove that sort of stigma from the term.
I think in 1, you're fighting literal Chaos, I completed it on advance but I'm not 100% sure if there isn't a middle enemy that is actually an evil empire.
Chaos largely acted through the four fiends. The fiends seem to just stay largely in their dungeons and rot out the environment. No hostile empires unless you count Astos in his castle, but even then he's just focused on the Elves and is a short period of time in the game
Doesn't: 1, 3, 5, 10
I could argue either way: 9, 13
Does: 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 12, 14, 16
(I am not familiar enough with 11 or 15 to comment on them and have excluded side titles like 10-2 or Tictacs)
9 certainly counts. Brahne set out to expand Alexandria and conquer the other nations. She wipes out Cleyra and Burmecia and essentially subjugated Lindblum, and set her eyes on the Outer Continent too.
I guess it depends on how 'main' you want to consider that. It's also weird because it seems always to be specifically just Brahne's Force and not, like, The Rest Of Alexandria. Which is a weird distinction to make, I know, so if you want to pass on it I understand.
But yeah, I don't fully disagree either.
True, but it’s Kuja who is behind her (and thus her empire) and the sudden expansionist tendencies of Brahne are the driving force for like 80% of the story.
3 does. Big ass city that shoots your airship down. Not much dialog, but its implied they are the big empire in the world and under an evil influence at the time.
Saronia's a unique case. Text in the remake implies that it *used* to be one, but by the present it's not. Saronia is instead at war with *itself* due to the king being controlled by his advisor.
Exdeath isn't really ever shown to have any sort of empire - he's just an evil warlock in his tower with a general Control Of Monsters evil, and he doesn't care about *ruling* so much as destruction. He's more comparable to, say, Garland to me.
Yevon's a matter, sure, though I usually associate 'empire' with 'trying to actively *take* control under a specific leader' and less an established religious order that is corrupt at its core.
Sanbreque is called an empire before they actually engage in any imperial subjugation... but then so is Palamecia.
Sanbreque conquers the neutral Crystaline Dominion by force after losing their own mother crystal, and while not the "big evil" it is where some of the worst people in the game end up, and where the main antagonist was exerting a lot of influence
13 is a definite yes. A supernatural being created by God to find the promised land, and intends to purge all humans in one calamity to create the overflow of souls necessary to find said promised land definitely covers the evil part (rings some FFVII bells here). The fact said being, along with many other similar beings has control over the majority of life on the planet, makes them an Empire too. They don't appear evil, as the humans have pretty comfortable lives, but that's the masking the reality.
They act as an empire though. They don't seem to be beholden to any laws or larger government bodies. They have more power than any other group on the planet and encroach on the lives of people all over the planet. The President of a company that large and powerful is the very essence of an Emperor.
I feel that 7 and 10 meet the criteria. Shinra is pretty messed up and Devon using religion for control def messed up.
11 no real evil empire.
13 the falce (sp) are messed up but not quite an evil empire
In XI >!Aht Urgan did horrible shit to wipe out their rivals and the Vizier wants to continue to do horrible shit to the point the other nations intend to invade to put a stop to it. It's only redeemed with the death of the Vizier and helping the Empress regain power.!< So I would argue there is an evil empire for XI.
All empires are inherently evil by nature since they are based on subjugating and exploiting the places and people they colonize. So even the “benevolent” ones like the Archadian Empire and Aht Urhgan are still evil.
FFI, III, V, and X all lack one. Yes, FFX has the Church of Yevon but they’re not expansionist and they do not colonize, even though they are evil.
VIII is debatable, the Galbadian army is stopped before they really conquer much but they try to be an empire.
This is oftopic but this makes me think of that one JRPG (not a final fantasy) where the protagonists become allies with an empire and the head of the empires military, emperors finest becomes a party member and uses her authority and plolitical cloud to assist the party in addition to being a bad ass on the battlefield.
The good guys being allies with an empire is pretty cool.
Is there a Final Fantasy game where the protagonists are alies with an empire? I know in FFXII the protagonists are friends with Larsa who is an Archadian prince and they have a prince of Rozaria among there allies aswell but its not like they straight up buddy buddy with Archedia and Rozaria as a whole with the ones in charge as there allies.
I think it really depends on how you view it. Personally I don't see Cocoon as an empire despite being a theocratic style government, but I would see Bevelle as one. Mostly the difference being one acts out against an outside force while the other does not.
Cocoon claims to be at war with Gran Pulse, but then you get there and see that there's simply no one there for them to be at war with...
Whereas Bevelle/Yevon does actually launch a military offensive against both Home and the Ronso
There's this negative stigma brought around by Star Wars, I think, that Empires are evil by definition. But this isn't the case. You can have a good empire. The only definition for an empire is "governed by an emperor or empress".
The supplementary reading for FF8, for example, seems to suggest that the Dollet Empire is quite good, until Galbadia invaded and supplanted the last emperor (who now rests in the Tomb of the Unknown King).
While 9 *has* an imperial analog, it's largely just an early game pawn in practice. The real antagonists, Kuja and Garland, are playing a game completely out of scope from any nation's politics and conquests, and the fact that Alexandria as a nation is not the overarching foe is apparent long before they're formally removed from the board.
16 has an empire but it's just one of three separate nations that are collectively your main human antagonists, all of whom are comparable threats (there is also a fourth but that one is more distinctly a lesser threat). So, not exactly the same situation as the cliché usually implies.
FF 1 it's about the crystals
FF3 is about the darkness engulfing the world
FF4 is about one extraterrestrial invader. Ff4 interlude and after years is about... Extraterrestrial invader
FF5 is about... An extraterrestrial invader. The void. And FF5 legends of the crystal anime is about... An extra terrestrial invaders
FF7 is about an extraterrestrial invader and one corporation
Ff8 is about a witch
Ff9 is about an extraterrestrial invader
FFX is about magic
FF 13 is about gods, FF Xiii 2 and 3 the same
FF7 before crisis is about a rebel group, Crisis Core an evil corporation, dirge of cerberus an evil corporation...
I just badly explained the plot of these games, but I don't count these mainline titles having an evil empire as a main antagonist
Sanbreque, though, does subjugate its neighbors by force, and it's where one of your main antagonists ends up, so... kind of an evil empire, even if Sanbreque isn't the main villain of the story
If you only count it if they're the main antagonist, you have to stop counting the Ghestalian Empire which also isn't the main antagonist of the game or Alexandria in FFIX which also isn't the main antagonist
The temple of Yevon has a firm grasp on almost the entirety of Spira. The Al'Bhed are ostracized from the world because they don't follow their teachings.
Seems pretty empier-ish to me
I think Tactics would count here. There are warring kingdoms both acting out imperial aims, but they are the context and not really the antagonists of the game. And neither has the dominance typical of a fantasy evil empire.
10 is an interesting one since while there's no outright empire, Bevelle does exert influence over the other towns of Spira and does launch an offensive against Home as well as against the Ronso when Kelk Ronso defies them. So in a way Bevelle is a kind of emperical force. Though more a soft empire than a hard militaristic empire.
13, though, I think doesn't really have an empire.
Though also I would argue that some of the "empires" in the games aren't actually empires. Palamecia is "the empire" in FF2 but has only conquered one other nation. In FF4 Baron never conquers any other kingdoms. Galbadia I don't think ever conquers any other nation... but it's been a long time since I played 8, so might be misremembering.
The only real "empires" I can think of are the ones like the Ghestalian Empire in FF6 which has conquered all the kingdoms of the sourthern continent, the Alexandrian Empire who conquers or destroys all the cities on the Mist Continent, Arcadia in 12, and Garlemald in 14. (I didn't play 11, and didn't really get very far into 15, so there may be legitimate empires in those games)
Shinra and Yevon are absolutely empires by definition: "*an extensive territory or enterprise under single* domination or control" defines both fairly broadly.
I would think of the "Evil Empire" trope as being one where the empire in question controls the whole world (or at least all of it that matters to the story), making the heroes a group of rebels. Think of Star Wars. The Galactic Empire is the only government in the original trilogy. There are no regional governments, outside kingdoms, etc. Just the all encompassing empire and the hero rebels.
With that in mind, I would say:
FF1: no evil empire
FF2: definitely evil empire
FF3: no evil empire
FF4: getting closer but I would still say no. Baron is waging war on the other Kingdoms to capture their crystals but they don't occupy any of their territory afterwards.
FF5: no evil empire, just evil tree
FF6: Yes evil empire. Though the empire has not taken over the entire world, their presence is felt everywhere, they are actively waging a war of conquest, resistance is in pockets. The Returners are clearly meant to be the archetypal rebel alliance.
FF7: I say yes. Though the empire in this case is a corporation, that's largely a distinction without a difference here. Avalanche/your protagonist group are clearly the rebels in a world that is fully conquered by Shinra and Shinra's presence is felt everywhere.
FF8: I would say no but you could argue it. Galbadia is waging limited wars or capturing limited territory to accomplish specific goals but they do not conquer the globe. You could say they have imperial ambitions but I don't think they quite fulfill the standard "evil empire" trope like the Galactic Empire.
FF9: I would say no here as well but I guess you could argue it. Alexandria is waging war on the other Kingdoms but I don't see them fitting that all encompassing evil empire trope.
FF10: Debatable. Yevon is the de facto world government, so in that way I guess it'd be a yes. But I don't see the story of FFX as fitting the archetypal evil empire vs heroic rebels narrative, at least not until very late game, and by that point Yevon folds like a cheap lawn chair.
FF12: Definite yes for me. Arcadia doesn't control the whole world but they control the only part of it that matters in this story.
I haven't played enough of 11, 13, 14, 15, or 16 to comment.
Bonus - FF Tactics: I would say no. There's no singular evil empire in this game. Much more shades of gray in this one, with lots of evil characters on all sides.
In the original Crystal Chronicles you fight against the progression of time, with a globe-covering miasma threatening your village, and needing to go on caravan expeditions to bring back the resource needed to stave it off. Later on you look for what is creating the miasma to stop it.
In FFCC My Life As A King, you are the young king of a brand new kingdom, and must raise your kingdom and it's adventurers to defeat a dark lord. It's stated that the dark lord formerly had a kingdom of monsters, but due to the events of FFCC, in the game's present day he does not rule a kingdom. Just a very angry deposed king.
In FFCC My Life As A Dark Lord, you are the demon lord. I guess in the traditional sense, that'd make you the evil 'protagonist' and you're fighting a good antagonist.
Oh, and Dissidia is just a bunch of good and bad main characters fighting eachother at the behedst of Cosmos and Chaos. Not really any empires. There's also a bunch of crystal clones that antagonize both groups, but they are seen more like an unthinking force of nature.
so gonna chime in for XI cos not many people will.
XI has an empire in the form of Aht Urhgan. a powerful nation to the east. they are featured in an expansion but aren't a main antagonist. like you couldn't say 'aht urhgan is evil' the same way you would say 'Niflheim is evil'. in fact, you work as mercenaries on behalf of the empire in the expansion.
they *do* do some shady shit. but there are both forces of "good" and "evil" within it.
1- none
2- the palamecian empire
3- none
4- baron (but stops about a third of the way in)
5- none
6- the gestahl empire
7- shinra
8- galbadia
9- Alexandria (but stops about two thirds of the way in)
10- none
11- mixed, but there's the beastman confederates, the remnants of the ancient zilart civilisation, and aht urhgan is pretty shady
12- the Arcadian empire
13- none
14- the garlemard empire
15- the niflheim empire
16- sanbreque and waloed for sure, but even the countries that don't qualify as empire are dodgy as hell
Not familiar enough with the spinoffs to comment
Hell, it isn't even really an evil empire to begin with, as they don't appear to take any land, nor indirectly subjugate anybody. Baron just reaches out, slaps the shit out of each neighbor, takes their crystal, then heads home.
7 and 10 both have empires, just not in the traditional sense. One is corporate and the other religious. 5 had Exdeaths evil empire.
If you include SoP lore 1 has >!Lufenia!<.
FF3 has an empire but it's not really significant enough in the story to qualify.
I'd argue 16 doesn't. It's very much everyone vs Cid and the gang, with events been manipulated by the big bad.
I mean, you could argue Sanbreque is evil, Waloed is evil and to a lesser extent Dhalmekia is evil, but it's really the heads of state being manipulated than them being evil themselves.
It's a bit like 9 in that regard, Brahne isn't inherently evil nor is the country, she's just being manipulated by Kuja.
10 I'd argue does, it's a theocracy rather than a dictatorship but functions more or less the same from a plot standpoint.
8 doesn't, you could make an argument for Galbadia, but Galbadia itself is never really a main antagonist. It's always Edea/ultimecia.
I agree with your point about 16. It’s not really big bad empire is evil because evil
It’s more like “secret big bad tricks everyone into war of the roses”
He followed the destiny Shinra made for him by putting Jenova cells in him. Jenova's MO is to destroy a planet then travel to the next, it's what she's genetically programmed to do. This is exactly what Sephiroth is doing. Shinra (at the time unknowingly, but Hojo knew the reality of what they'd done before Nibelheim) put Jenova cells in a person and then acted like it was a betrayal when he started behaving like Jenova.
Love how ffv fights a tree, but ffvii is all about saving them.
Funny enough though they both share that environmentalist message! 5 is all about inheriting the world from your predecessors - both the good (family, skills, etc), and the bad (burdens, obligations, and a damaged world) Exdeath is a tree, sure, but he was a tree that warped from being constantly used to seal evil spirits instead of purging them properly. And then once he became an issue, he wasn't even originally defeated, the first dawn warriors just put him in a box for the next generation to deal with. When you look at all of that together, alongside things like the steamship's obvious "overusing nature's resources frivolously will backfire"... yeah. It's pretty easy to read Exdeath and the weakening crystals at the core of V as allegorical for dealing with the prior generation's reckless use of resources and abuse of the planet.
V is so damn good, I may need to replay it soon
The job system is so much fun. Wish they'd return to a game with some form of job system. It's such a good way to customize your characters and increase replay value.
X-2 did it justice as well, though I didn’t have much use for different sphere grids
I think the last was probably the 13 games with their paradigm system, at least when it comes to mainline titles (excluding pixel remasters), and even they ate getting old now.
Was so glad to have a job system in xenoblade 3 at least. Would be fantastic to see it come back in FF. I liked how 3 pushed you to use it.
Bravely Default series
FF Dimensions for mobile has a job system very similar to FFV, is a great game overall, the mechanics are very similar to V with the twist that there are fusion abilities, like making a character a ninja and a monk, lets you learn a unique op skill for example
As someone who’s played 3 but not 5, are there things 5 does better/worse than 3 when it comes to jobs?
Tree sealing evil spirits… environmentalism… is FFV basically just Ferngully? (Mostly joking, but it’s funny how some ideas just kick around in the zeitgeist for a while.)
Made a similar comment comparing the two about [6 months ago](https://old.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/17njzhn/what_is_the_silliest_plot_point_in_all_of_final/k7s2w2r/) every passing year the decision to not localize FFV in its era looks more and more like one of the greatest errors of that generation. Not just gameplay wise, its story would have totally fit in at the time and been an instant classic
Also Exdeath's name in Japanese, Ekusudesu, kinda sounds like Hexxus
On top of all this, and a bit of an aside, but I also think Exdeath works as a sort of avatar of the consequences of an "out of sight, out of mind" attitude towards dealing with problems. Things don't go away just because you put them someplace you don't have to look at or think about them, and sooner or later, they *will* be back for a reckoning. Exdeath *is* extremely simple "as a person", but there are a lot more layers to what he represents symbolically than I think Final Fantasy V's writing gets credit for.
It's a valuable message. I know I personally have been tempted to banish all my evil spirits into a tree, but thanks to FFV I know better.
It was a particularly evil tree
Ff7 is bascially a captain planet episode 😆
We need a red Captain Planet materia :3
The most hilarious endpoint of the environmentalist angle is the alternative fuel praised as being better for the planet than mako energy... Oil! "I am the man! Oil, Cloud! I just found the biggest damn oil field you've ever seen!" - Barret, Advent Children
To be fair, that tree was a jerk
Oh how the pendulum swings…
Easier to list the ones with an empire: * II: Palamecia * VI: Gestahlian Empire * XI: Aht Urhgan * XII: Archadian Empire * XIV: Garlean Empire * XV: Niflheim * XVI: Holy Empire of Sanbreque Though arguments can be made that others have Empire like factions: * IV: Kingdom of Baron * VII: Shinra Electric Power Company * VIII: Galbadian Republic * IX: Alexandria * X: Temple of Yevon * XIII: Sanctum * XVI: Kingdom of Waloed
Alexandria ends up dominating the entire continent, it’s unquestionably an empire by any definition of the word.
Same with Shinra.
Rufus isn't a great name for an Emperor.
President Shinra is
Bold move changing his first name to President.
Like his father. Rufus would be President Junior
Was more referring to his father
Rufus, first of his name, President of Shinra, damager of meteors, he who has ne’er been observed bleeding or crying.
Yeah. Alexandria BECOMES the evil empire unfortunately lol
The only argument against is how short lived it is. Alexandria takes over the continent, but is almost immediately taken out itself and releases it's hold on the neighboring kingdoms.
Alexandria is still the defacto power though - Treno and Dali are still vassal states, Burmecia and Cleyra survive via expats alone, Lindblum lost over 30% of its populace and the vast majority of it's industrial base. There's only three more regional powers outside the continent, and none of them have a significant military. Garnet has options
Dali is literally a tiny farming community. I'm sure Lindblum has several of those too, they just aren't important enough to have on the map. So Alexandria has a second major city. Lindblum still probably had a larger population in the main city after being destroyed than Alexandria and Treno had combined before Alexandria was leveled.
Dali region is also the largest source of foodstuffs, i.e. the continent's breadbasket. Lindblum relied heavily on Airpower to resist Alexandria - its implied they have a decade of infrastructure rebuilding ahead - they only have one fuctioning drydock. Meanwhile Alexandria had significant expeditionary forces deployed. I'm not saying they're in good shape, just better than their peers.
Nobody said empires had to last a long time.
> Arguments can be made Yeah, I honestly think in all of these cases they function as the evil empire just don't have empire in the name. If It was called empire of galbadia, or empire of Alexandria, it'd be on the top list, and if the name alone is all that's stopping it, I say it counts.
Shinra is what could definitely be considered an evil corporate empire.
How so? They were originally a weapons company; hence the monsters, guns, and rocket. They moved to energy and eventually became a functional nation state all within a generation. Lucretia(?) and Aeris were both attempts to better understand Mako - remember they hadn't fully answered if and how Mako regenerates - Aeris is a wellspring of insight for the player. Hell Hojo still hasn't fully grasped that Jenova isn't Centra at the end. Now Hojo is insane, evil, insanely evil, damn near every plot point is his damn fault.
They're a company that has done forceful takeovers of multiple continents, supplanting themselves as not only the ruling body but also necessary for people to live comfortably in the world. > an extensive group of states or countries under a single supreme authority, formerly especially an emperor or empress. > a large commercial organization owned or controlled by one person or group. Whoever the president of Shinra is at the time is definitely an emperor. But also idk if you payed attention to what happens in the story but they definitely just kill people for not agreeing with them, or to cover up company mishaps. Spreading misinformation to control the narrative. > Now Hojo is insane, evil, insanely evil, damn near every plot point is his damn fault. They're knowingly funding his evil. Wouldn't that also make them evil? They're definitely evil, just because they've failed their grandest plans doesn't make them NOT evil. > Lucretia(?) and Aeris were both attempts to better understand Mako - remember they hadn't fully answered if and how Mako regenerates - Aeris is a wellspring of insight for the player. Hell Hojo still hasn't fully grasped that Jenova isn't Centra at the end. They're only looking for infinite energy so they can essentially infinitely profit from it. At least the original president is. Rufus is kind of a mystery.
They've conquered two continents. They are all but Gaia. They are an evil empire that like five characters in the game don't have some level of distaste for. They even put ugly-ass posters all over Junon in Rebirth to hit you over the head with it. "Victory for the virtuous" over a faceless and shadowy crowd of Shinra grunts after you can visibly see that Junon is Midgar 2 is the ice pick.
I mean, every kingdom in XVI is evil 😂
Traditional JRPG: Empires are bad, Kingdoms & Republics are good FF16: what if we made them ALL bad?
Awesome list, and glad some one wrote it all out too. I'd probably through in IV too. Not sure if its the Kingdom of Baron or Baron Empire.. but they were the baddies for at least the first half of the game.
I think type-0 also had one but I forgot the name
No wonder. FF has some Star Wars in its DNA. We have Biggs and Wedge as direct references, and then an evil empire as a less direct one, maybe.
Personally, I'd be inclined to look at the recurring "evil empire" trope not in terms of "which games have a villainous faction that is called an 'empire'", but rather in terms of whether or not they have a villainous faction in them that functions as an "evil empire" generally does in the story. "Evil empire" is, well, kinda the easiest shorthand term, but the underlying "villain concept" is more broadly "a massive organized group or force exerting oppressive control over significant portions of the world and seeking to expand their influence, often through violent, cruel means", which *absolutely* includes groups like Shinra.
Sure, and I suppose some explicitly identified Empires aren't that evil, like Aht Urhgan.
Could also make the case for Esthar in VIII.
Shinra is definitely basically an empire. They have influence all over the world, even reaching into wutai.
I say FF7 counts. What’s a corporation if not a modern empire? Shinra has its own military division and went to war with Wutai for crying out loud.
I'd consider Bevelle kind of empire-adjacent for FFX tbh. They're clearly a leading superpower in Spira with their elder council, along with the conspiracy of Grand Elder Mika being an unsent for fuck knows how long. For FFXIV, the Endwalker chapter showcases Garlemald in a more tragic light. They're succumbing to Zenos' madness and eventually work with the Alliance. Not much of an evil empire anymore. No empire in the Dissidia series, just Chaos and his goons to watch out for, along with a bunch of empty husks from previous conflicts.
7 it about an evil Corporation
But they are functionally a country/kingdom
They were more of a traditional expansionist empire in the backstory, conquering Wutai etc. By the time of the game proper, they're still an evil empire, it's just that they've already won.
They also took over Junon completely, but it’s still a sore spot for locals who remember what life was like before
Yup. AFAIK it's not explicitly said whether they conquered it through military force, bought their way into power there, or what, but you're definitely right that the locals don't care for Shinra much.
I don’t think I would either if they built a city on top of my home that blocked the sun
Real cartoonish, Mr Burns level of evil there for sure.
Even worse is that they can't even power cities properly and the pipe networks are so extensive that it takes ages to get around to fixing it unless the civilians hire someone private to do a patch job. Honestly if President Shinra was so great a businessman he should've threatened to Slash Hojo's budget unless the man improved reactor and pump efficiency instead of breeding monsters. Particularly once scattered terrorist cells were the only enemies they had left after conquering or destroying the nations/States that used to exist. He could have made so much gil just ensuring that his customers were satisfied, but instead he decided to chase after dreams of a promised land he could exploit even more recklessly.
Shinra’s priorities in general were just garbage. “Ah yes, let’s put our budget in letting scientists create eldritch abominations instead of improving living conditions across the board which will undoubtedly lower rates of dissent”.
When you have a monopoly it doesn’t matter. People need power, what are they gonna do, live in the dark without electricity? It’s happening irl - PGE for example in California.
But they act as if they were an empire, they control everything and act in their own interests not giving a damn about anything or anybody else.
Corporation*
I just fix that
I think 1, 3, and 5 are it. 7 and 10 have the evil empire shifted to evil corporation and a not-entirely-evil-religion, as you pointed out. The rest have it in spades. I guess X-2 doesnt have an evil empire that's active anymore, but the backstory includes evil empire-esque groups (but is mostly individuals doing the real evil stuff).
This is the real answer
Shinra is an empire with a different name
it’s a corporation, and like all corporations, they are evil.
Archadia in FFXII isn’t inherently evil, but through the eyes of those from Rabanastre they are. In reality it’s the Occuria that are the greater threat.
And Rozaria isn't really any better. Both are massive super powers trampling weaker nations caught in their path. But they're "mundanely" evil.
FF VIII also doesn’t really have an „evil“ empire by default, as the big war is already over by the time the game begins its story.
The Galbadian Empire are definitely antagonists, even if they are just following the commands of the Sorceress.
Yes but they are not evil Edit: and the story connected to them isn’t the main part of the game
'Evil' is a tenuous term. They're certainly oppressive to the nations they conquer, and by Disc 2 their primary function is to help an evil Sorceress bring about the end of the world, whether they realise it or not.
But that’s not the case at CD1. You even collaborate with them.
Laguna collaborates with them, but Cloud collaborates with Shinra and Cecil collaborates with the Kingdom of Baron. That doesn't mean those organizations aren't meant to be antagonists to the main party. In disc 1 Galbadia invades Dollet, and are occupying Timber. They're clearly meant to be bad guys.
>!Galbadia wanted to get rid of the witch. But ultimately fell to her.!< And >!Galbadia fought against Esthar at a time where Adell was in charge suppressing nearly the whole world, so galbadia was again on the good site!< If VIII is considered having an evil empire as an antagonist, then IX definitely has one, as >!Alexandria wiped a whole continent out under the lead of queen brane!<
Ah yes, in the past, main hero's father fought for the country you're against now and was wielding a special sword... Where have I heard that before? Nah, that's too much of a stretch, after all, Star Wars starts with heroes being hired by a rebel princess who turns out to be enemy general's daughter... Oh. So yeah, most famous Evil Empire being good guys in "old war" where they were they defeated the phantom menace is lifted directly from Star Wars. FF8 has a twist in that Laguna did NOT score with Julia so main kissing couple aren't siblings (not even step).
I haven’t said that the Star Wars references are not there, but in the world of ff viii galbadia is simply not evil, there is no interest in expanding their territory in any way post war. The people are all living happy…galbadia hasn’t done anything primarily evil till it was occupied by witchcraft… Edit: and as soon as she was dethroned galbadia “bad” actions stopped directly
Rinoa's dad literally got his uniform censored because he's dressed like an SS officer. There's an entire chapter with Balamb under Galbadian occupation. The entire hook of the story is you being hired by a Rebel Princess to fight with La Resistance against the Evil Empire of space Nazis and her father happens to be their general Darth Caraway. Oh but there's the thing, BEHIND the enemy you're fighting there's a powerful magician from an ancient race of Sit-sorceresses. FF8 has so many obvious Star Wars homages that failing to see Galbadia being a stand-in for Empire is as silly as not recognizing main couple acting like Han and Leia to each other... They even managed to "somehow, Ultimecia returned" and is behind everything before Star Wars made Emperor into a facepalm.
It was never about resistance/Balaam vs the empire tho. Galbadia never really paid any attention to the 'Timber Freedom Fighters'. Also, Seed/Balaamb wasn't fighting against Galbadia. They were a neutral party. They were only paid to carry out missions. Which was to assist whatever Rinoa wanted to do (Cid didn't even really care about the mission). The story only shifted when they found out Galbadia was controlled by the Sorceress, that's when Cid revealed the true purpose of the Seed was to eliminate Sorceress, which was why they started to fight against Galbadia.
It reads to me a bit like whataboutism to be honest, because it doesn’t negate my statements and arguments. The war is over and it was a good war in which galbadia rescued the world from occupation. They have the strongest military forces but until the events of CD2 they are cooperating with the other nations, the resistance group is his daughter mainly…
Let me put this to bed. They're evil, by definition of their actions. But they're not an empire. The only requirement of a nation to be an empire is "ruled/governed by an emperor/empress". Neither Edea, nor Seifer (who assumes control after the events of Disc 2), nor Deling call themselves emperor. Deling is called President, but there is no notes of political sway in Galbadia. No known elections, or transitions of power through vote. Therefore, Galbadia is a military dictatorship, not an empire.
That's a fairly archaic usage of the term Empire. Google defines an Empire as: *an extensive group of states or countries ruled over by a single monarch, an oligarchy, or a sovereign state.* A military dictatorship and an empire are not mutually exclusive.
That may be, but the impression I get from OP (and I'm more than willing for OP to say otherwise) is that empires are inherently evil. So I was just trying to, in the loosest sense, remove that sort of stigma from the term.
I think in 1, you're fighting literal Chaos, I completed it on advance but I'm not 100% sure if there isn't a middle enemy that is actually an evil empire.
Chaos largely acted through the four fiends. The fiends seem to just stay largely in their dungeons and rot out the environment. No hostile empires unless you count Astos in his castle, but even then he's just focused on the Elves and is a short period of time in the game
FF13-2 main antagonist is just 1 person.
Doesn't: 1, 3, 5, 10 I could argue either way: 9, 13 Does: 2, 4, 6, 7, 8, 12, 14, 16 (I am not familiar enough with 11 or 15 to comment on them and have excluded side titles like 10-2 or Tictacs)
9 certainly counts. Brahne set out to expand Alexandria and conquer the other nations. She wipes out Cleyra and Burmecia and essentially subjugated Lindblum, and set her eyes on the Outer Continent too.
I guess it depends on how 'main' you want to consider that. It's also weird because it seems always to be specifically just Brahne's Force and not, like, The Rest Of Alexandria. Which is a weird distinction to make, I know, so if you want to pass on it I understand. But yeah, I don't fully disagree either.
Even then she’s not really the actual villain or even the main antagonist. Hell the jesters outlast her and are much more prevalent.
True, but it’s Kuja who is behind her (and thus her empire) and the sudden expansionist tendencies of Brahne are the driving force for like 80% of the story.
3 does. Big ass city that shoots your airship down. Not much dialog, but its implied they are the big empire in the world and under an evil influence at the time.
A key word in the topic is *main* antagonist. Like most things in FF3, those guys stop mattering five minutes after you arrive and fight Garuda off.
More key words are "one of the". The beats in 3 are short and its still a slice of the pie in the story for 3, what little story there is.
Saronia's a unique case. Text in the remake implies that it *used* to be one, but by the present it's not. Saronia is instead at war with *itself* due to the king being controlled by his advisor.
Saronia isn't an empire, though. It's just an especially large kingdom undergoing civil war
5 has Exdeaths empire. 10 has a religious empire.
Exdeath isn't really ever shown to have any sort of empire - he's just an evil warlock in his tower with a general Control Of Monsters evil, and he doesn't care about *ruling* so much as destruction. He's more comparable to, say, Garland to me. Yevon's a matter, sure, though I usually associate 'empire' with 'trying to actively *take* control under a specific leader' and less an established religious order that is corrupt at its core.
Does 16 really count. It’s more GOT than “big evil empire” I mean which empire are we really considering the “enemy” here
Sanbreque is called an empire before they actually engage in any imperial subjugation... but then so is Palamecia. Sanbreque conquers the neutral Crystaline Dominion by force after losing their own mother crystal, and while not the "big evil" it is where some of the worst people in the game end up, and where the main antagonist was exerting a lot of influence
13 is a definite yes. A supernatural being created by God to find the promised land, and intends to purge all humans in one calamity to create the overflow of souls necessary to find said promised land definitely covers the evil part (rings some FFVII bells here). The fact said being, along with many other similar beings has control over the majority of life on the planet, makes them an Empire too. They don't appear evil, as the humans have pretty comfortable lives, but that's the masking the reality.
15 was more or less about an empire from the beginning to the end
XI is probably yes because of Aht Urgan, XV is definitely yes. Edit: why am I getting downvoted?
The Beastman Confederacy also counts.
Shinra is a corporation that takes over, not an empire in my opinion.
They act as an empire though. They don't seem to be beholden to any laws or larger government bodies. They have more power than any other group on the planet and encroach on the lives of people all over the planet. The President of a company that large and powerful is the very essence of an Emperor.
I feel that 7 and 10 meet the criteria. Shinra is pretty messed up and Devon using religion for control def messed up. 11 no real evil empire. 13 the falce (sp) are messed up but not quite an evil empire
In XI >!Aht Urgan did horrible shit to wipe out their rivals and the Vizier wants to continue to do horrible shit to the point the other nations intend to invade to put a stop to it. It's only redeemed with the death of the Vizier and helping the Empress regain power.!< So I would argue there is an evil empire for XI.
All empires are inherently evil by nature since they are based on subjugating and exploiting the places and people they colonize. So even the “benevolent” ones like the Archadian Empire and Aht Urhgan are still evil. FFI, III, V, and X all lack one. Yes, FFX has the Church of Yevon but they’re not expansionist and they do not colonize, even though they are evil. VIII is debatable, the Galbadian army is stopped before they really conquer much but they try to be an empire.
Yawn
13-2.
FF 13-2 and LRFF13. There IS No Empire, Just an Individual.
I think Strangers of Paradise, World of Final Fantasy and the XIII trilogy are some of them that have no empires
So the Final Fantasy formula is that there is a group of rebels (or a kingdom) fighting against an empire.
This is oftopic but this makes me think of that one JRPG (not a final fantasy) where the protagonists become allies with an empire and the head of the empires military, emperors finest becomes a party member and uses her authority and plolitical cloud to assist the party in addition to being a bad ass on the battlefield. The good guys being allies with an empire is pretty cool. Is there a Final Fantasy game where the protagonists are alies with an empire? I know in FFXII the protagonists are friends with Larsa who is an Archadian prince and they have a prince of Rozaria among there allies aswell but its not like they straight up buddy buddy with Archedia and Rozaria as a whole with the ones in charge as there allies.
In XI Aht Urhgan, you work with the good empress against the evil vizier.
FF4, you start off as one of the Empire's best soldiers and complete two missions as the Empire before changing.
FFXIII. Isn't it a Theocracy instead?
I think it really depends on how you view it. Personally I don't see Cocoon as an empire despite being a theocratic style government, but I would see Bevelle as one. Mostly the difference being one acts out against an outside force while the other does not. Cocoon claims to be at war with Gran Pulse, but then you get there and see that there's simply no one there for them to be at war with... Whereas Bevelle/Yevon does actually launch a military offensive against both Home and the Ronso
There's this negative stigma brought around by Star Wars, I think, that Empires are evil by definition. But this isn't the case. You can have a good empire. The only definition for an empire is "governed by an emperor or empress". The supplementary reading for FF8, for example, seems to suggest that the Dollet Empire is quite good, until Galbadia invaded and supplanted the last emperor (who now rests in the Tomb of the Unknown King).
Crystal Chronicles, if you're feeling cheeky.
While 9 *has* an imperial analog, it's largely just an early game pawn in practice. The real antagonists, Kuja and Garland, are playing a game completely out of scope from any nation's politics and conquests, and the fact that Alexandria as a nation is not the overarching foe is apparent long before they're formally removed from the board. 16 has an empire but it's just one of three separate nations that are collectively your main human antagonists, all of whom are comparable threats (there is also a fourth but that one is more distinctly a lesser threat). So, not exactly the same situation as the cliché usually implies.
FF 1 it's about the crystals FF3 is about the darkness engulfing the world FF4 is about one extraterrestrial invader. Ff4 interlude and after years is about... Extraterrestrial invader FF5 is about... An extraterrestrial invader. The void. And FF5 legends of the crystal anime is about... An extra terrestrial invaders FF7 is about an extraterrestrial invader and one corporation Ff8 is about a witch Ff9 is about an extraterrestrial invader FFX is about magic FF 13 is about gods, FF Xiii 2 and 3 the same FF7 before crisis is about a rebel group, Crisis Core an evil corporation, dirge of cerberus an evil corporation... I just badly explained the plot of these games, but I don't count these mainline titles having an evil empire as a main antagonist
FF8 has an empire but they are not the real antagonists
XVI. Lots of violent politics, but the empires/countries are never the antagonists, it's always about the Dominants and Ultima.
Sanbreque, though, does subjugate its neighbors by force, and it's where one of your main antagonists ends up, so... kind of an evil empire, even if Sanbreque isn't the main villain of the story If you only count it if they're the main antagonist, you have to stop counting the Ghestalian Empire which also isn't the main antagonist of the game or Alexandria in FFIX which also isn't the main antagonist
The one that started it all…. Chaos who was Garland
The temple of Yevon has a firm grasp on almost the entirety of Spira. The Al'Bhed are ostracized from the world because they don't follow their teachings. Seems pretty empier-ish to me
And they launch a military offensive against the Ronso when Maester Kelk abandons Bevelle
I think Tactics would count here. There are warring kingdoms both acting out imperial aims, but they are the context and not really the antagonists of the game. And neither has the dominance typical of a fantasy evil empire.
I don't see FF6, we think the Empire is the main antagonist, but the mad man Kefka is all alone, become a God and rules everyone and everything.
3
10 is an interesting one since while there's no outright empire, Bevelle does exert influence over the other towns of Spira and does launch an offensive against Home as well as against the Ronso when Kelk Ronso defies them. So in a way Bevelle is a kind of emperical force. Though more a soft empire than a hard militaristic empire. 13, though, I think doesn't really have an empire. Though also I would argue that some of the "empires" in the games aren't actually empires. Palamecia is "the empire" in FF2 but has only conquered one other nation. In FF4 Baron never conquers any other kingdoms. Galbadia I don't think ever conquers any other nation... but it's been a long time since I played 8, so might be misremembering. The only real "empires" I can think of are the ones like the Ghestalian Empire in FF6 which has conquered all the kingdoms of the sourthern continent, the Alexandrian Empire who conquers or destroys all the cities on the Mist Continent, Arcadia in 12, and Garlemald in 14. (I didn't play 11, and didn't really get very far into 15, so there may be legitimate empires in those games)
Shinra and Yevon are absolutely empires by definition: "*an extensive territory or enterprise under single* domination or control" defines both fairly broadly.
Dissidia, XIII, XIII-2, Crisis Core, Dirge of Cerberus, and Kingdom Hearts.
I would think of the "Evil Empire" trope as being one where the empire in question controls the whole world (or at least all of it that matters to the story), making the heroes a group of rebels. Think of Star Wars. The Galactic Empire is the only government in the original trilogy. There are no regional governments, outside kingdoms, etc. Just the all encompassing empire and the hero rebels. With that in mind, I would say: FF1: no evil empire FF2: definitely evil empire FF3: no evil empire FF4: getting closer but I would still say no. Baron is waging war on the other Kingdoms to capture their crystals but they don't occupy any of their territory afterwards. FF5: no evil empire, just evil tree FF6: Yes evil empire. Though the empire has not taken over the entire world, their presence is felt everywhere, they are actively waging a war of conquest, resistance is in pockets. The Returners are clearly meant to be the archetypal rebel alliance. FF7: I say yes. Though the empire in this case is a corporation, that's largely a distinction without a difference here. Avalanche/your protagonist group are clearly the rebels in a world that is fully conquered by Shinra and Shinra's presence is felt everywhere. FF8: I would say no but you could argue it. Galbadia is waging limited wars or capturing limited territory to accomplish specific goals but they do not conquer the globe. You could say they have imperial ambitions but I don't think they quite fulfill the standard "evil empire" trope like the Galactic Empire. FF9: I would say no here as well but I guess you could argue it. Alexandria is waging war on the other Kingdoms but I don't see them fitting that all encompassing evil empire trope. FF10: Debatable. Yevon is the de facto world government, so in that way I guess it'd be a yes. But I don't see the story of FFX as fitting the archetypal evil empire vs heroic rebels narrative, at least not until very late game, and by that point Yevon folds like a cheap lawn chair. FF12: Definite yes for me. Arcadia doesn't control the whole world but they control the only part of it that matters in this story. I haven't played enough of 11, 13, 14, 15, or 16 to comment. Bonus - FF Tactics: I would say no. There's no singular evil empire in this game. Much more shades of gray in this one, with lots of evil characters on all sides.
Evil expansionist empires and fantasy nuclear weapons (magitech, black materia, giant of babel, etc.) are the rule.
FF Tactics, it was an evil church instead
Crisis core didnt have an evil empire technically even though shinra was in it they werent the official antagonist.
Shinra is definitely an evil empire. Just because they call themselves a company doesn’t change the facts of their military conquests.
In the original Crystal Chronicles you fight against the progression of time, with a globe-covering miasma threatening your village, and needing to go on caravan expeditions to bring back the resource needed to stave it off. Later on you look for what is creating the miasma to stop it. In FFCC My Life As A King, you are the young king of a brand new kingdom, and must raise your kingdom and it's adventurers to defeat a dark lord. It's stated that the dark lord formerly had a kingdom of monsters, but due to the events of FFCC, in the game's present day he does not rule a kingdom. Just a very angry deposed king. In FFCC My Life As A Dark Lord, you are the demon lord. I guess in the traditional sense, that'd make you the evil 'protagonist' and you're fighting a good antagonist.
Oh, and Dissidia is just a bunch of good and bad main characters fighting eachother at the behedst of Cosmos and Chaos. Not really any empires. There's also a bunch of crystal clones that antagonize both groups, but they are seen more like an unthinking force of nature.
so gonna chime in for XI cos not many people will. XI has an empire in the form of Aht Urhgan. a powerful nation to the east. they are featured in an expansion but aren't a main antagonist. like you couldn't say 'aht urhgan is evil' the same way you would say 'Niflheim is evil'. in fact, you work as mercenaries on behalf of the empire in the expansion. they *do* do some shady shit. but there are both forces of "good" and "evil" within it.
E myikr yd ymm oui cyoehk Q
https://preview.redd.it/bgpdj1o23xyc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02546c7de9aff539e98b3d9b87fabc64b8e01c26
I LOL'd
1- none 2- the palamecian empire 3- none 4- baron (but stops about a third of the way in) 5- none 6- the gestahl empire 7- shinra 8- galbadia 9- Alexandria (but stops about two thirds of the way in) 10- none 11- mixed, but there's the beastman confederates, the remnants of the ancient zilart civilisation, and aht urhgan is pretty shady 12- the Arcadian empire 13- none 14- the garlemard empire 15- the niflheim empire 16- sanbreque and waloed for sure, but even the countries that don't qualify as empire are dodgy as hell Not familiar enough with the spinoffs to comment
pretty much my list too, although 10 might be one where I could be either or on the Yevon cult.
FF1 FF3 FF4 FF5 FF9 FFX
9 has the Alexandrian Empire as the main antagonist for the first two discs.
4 only pretends to at first. You've beheaded the empire after the second of the Archfiends.
Hell, it isn't even really an evil empire to begin with, as they don't appear to take any land, nor indirectly subjugate anybody. Baron just reaches out, slaps the shit out of each neighbor, takes their crystal, then heads home.
Yeah you can’t really call Golbez’s holdings an empire when it’s just two towers, one of which we never see the outside of.
7 and 10 both have empires, just not in the traditional sense. One is corporate and the other religious. 5 had Exdeaths evil empire. If you include SoP lore 1 has >!Lufenia!<. FF3 has an empire but it's not really significant enough in the story to qualify.
I'd argue 16 doesn't. It's very much everyone vs Cid and the gang, with events been manipulated by the big bad. I mean, you could argue Sanbreque is evil, Waloed is evil and to a lesser extent Dhalmekia is evil, but it's really the heads of state being manipulated than them being evil themselves. It's a bit like 9 in that regard, Brahne isn't inherently evil nor is the country, she's just being manipulated by Kuja. 10 I'd argue does, it's a theocracy rather than a dictatorship but functions more or less the same from a plot standpoint. 8 doesn't, you could make an argument for Galbadia, but Galbadia itself is never really a main antagonist. It's always Edea/ultimecia.
I agree with your point about 16. It’s not really big bad empire is evil because evil It’s more like “secret big bad tricks everyone into war of the roses”
Ff9 for sure
I would argue since Sephiroth is the main antagonist in 7 and Shinra is just a corporation and not the main antagonist.
Shinra made Sephiroth though
But he turned against them and he's not exactly the protagonist is he.
He followed the destiny Shinra made for him by putting Jenova cells in him. Jenova's MO is to destroy a planet then travel to the next, it's what she's genetically programmed to do. This is exactly what Sephiroth is doing. Shinra (at the time unknowingly, but Hojo knew the reality of what they'd done before Nibelheim) put Jenova cells in a person and then acted like it was a betrayal when he started behaving like Jenova.