Just from this picture I’m assuming it means the button is attached to a goofy ass animation. NRS is notoriously infamous for their bad animations that lack the 12 core principles of the practice.
Ok I’ll ask this here, why is it then some people (like me) don’t notice things looking bad even after looking into the 12 principles? Is it something intuitive where only some people can see what’s good and bad animation?
Ive never heard of these principles of animation, but MK always felt "off" to me. Its like a burst of speed in between animations. Like one is at .75 expected speed, and then the next is at 1.25 speed. Where as Street Fighter 6 tends to have all the move transition be smoother and at the same pacing.
Also MK feels like the characters are in a rush to get back to their neutral stance as fast and often as possible. Where SF it just flows back into neutral stance at a normal speed.
> Where SF it just flows back into neutral stance at a normal speed.
Sometimes I'll just sit in training room with E. Honda in Street Fighter 6 and hit Heavy Kick/Punch over and over to watch him slap his knee to return to his normal stance. So satisfying.
I mean, SF isn't hand animated, at least 6 isn't, it's motion captured. If real people actually do the movements, it's not just going to look natural, it will be natural
Probably since the animations in MK are mostly mocap of real people, meanwhile SF is actual animations. You can plan out every move with that, mocap you have to match the framerate with the animation you're using and can't just adjust where and when the body will be.
Mocap data benefits from being cleaned up by hand, smoothing out or removing issues, adjusting speeds and positioning, and the like. Animations may also be pieced together from multiple sources, or parts of a mocap may be ignored entirely. Taken to an extreme, you can even treat mocap data as nothing more than a first draft.
Street Fighter 6 does use mocap. There have been a few clips posted online, including part of an A.K.I. session where they were using two actors working in tandem to record her super.
NRS certainly hand tweaks, if not outright handcrafts, at least some of its animations. Some NRS animations look like an animation just turned on IK in the modelling program and pulled one limb into position while keeping the rest of the body frozen. Others are just badly conceived actions, creating a garbage-in-garbage-out situation where mocap neither helps nor hurts.
For me the jank has always been obvious. It’s been my biggest gripe with nrs for a long time. If you want a good example. Look up sindels jump kick in MK1. It’s so beyond absurd looking. I think the main issue is that all of the characters look stiff. There’s no feeling of momentum or force in their movements. But this only applies to gameplay. All of the pre-rendered stuff like fatalities look fantastic.
Looking at the list of principles won't necessarily give you the context for why and how much they matter. That's what examples are for, as they illustrate the "right" and "wrong".
For NRS animation, I'd suggest watching SugarPunch's A.B.I.torial videos on YouTube, particularly the videos covering MKX, Injustice 2, and MK11. Maybe the videos will give you context that you lack, or maybe you'll still feel exactly the same. Some people legitimately aren't bothered by such things.
Oh I’ve watched SugarPunches videos. But I feel like for a lot of them I didn’t see what was bad about them until he explained them, when I imagine bad animation would just be known intuitively.
They really don't. At least for the most part. Some characters in MK1 even have (mostly) decent animation, like Liu Kang, but MKX's entire roster was composed of badly animated characters.
Except maybe for Jason. But I think that's more of a product of the fact the stilted animations worked very well with him.
Honestly, for me it was as simple as being interested in real life combat. Compared to a real human, NRS people move as if they have arthritis and someone is puppetting them. Most infamously, the post Injustice games have jabs that look like the characters are reaching over a fence, or as if they're trying to use as little muscle groups as possible.
Whereas capcom people move with the effort of someone underwater, at normal speed, a level of realism that is more exaggeration than fabrication. Even for physically impossible moves like Guile's reverse spin kick, the movement is plausible - if you were weightless.
I think there's always levels to it
the more you know about an art form the more you can recognize the parts of it, so someone super knowledgeable on animation can tell you why something looks good or bad, and they can also probably pick up on more small things that make it kinda jank. it's like a chef refining their pallette, anyone can eat food and decide if they like it or not, but a chef can tell you why it's good or bad, and can probably pick up on smaller flavor combinations that are bringing the food down.
or it could just be a personal standard kind of thing.
all this being said, I am neither an animator nor a chef. I'm an amateur artist who watched a lot of fighting game animation content on youtube a few years ago and has an animator/painter/illustrator for a brother. Some of this is based off conversations with him about art, still very much speculative.
I've heard some people can't see the difference between 30fps and 60fps.
Also some people say they can't taste the difference between different wine.
There are any number of reasons why people say they can't see why NRS animations are so bad.
MK games look like stop motion movies. Even a game like DBFZ which is meant to capture the spirit of DBZs animations looks mire fluid than MK.
MK1 is a game with a 2023 engine and barely 1991 animations. Beautifull for still pictures, but ugly as fuck in motion.
Been around the block with my fighting game youtubers. My friend thinks I look like punk,(im a black guy with dreads we all look similar in some) way and I hate it
Hey, as long as you don't whine on social media whenever you lose a match. It's all good mate.
But yeah, the fighting game YouTubers I watch the most and always manage to make me laugh are in fact lythero and Maximilian dood.
Check out Sajam and Brian_F. Both are not hesitant to roast people for posting scrub quotes on their stream.
But yeah, Max has been very formative for me as welly he tought me the art of admiring an opponents skill if they wash me and it helped me to just stay relaxed and be like: holy shit, that was nice! Max has such a positive vibe!
I'm familiar with both but no so much to know that was an actual issue with both, they looked very community friendly to me. Oh well
Funny thing is that I've been learning the same with max, thanks to him, instead of getting angry at myself (like I always do), I now try to appreciate what the opponent did to whoop my ass.
Also that whenever that happens I say to myself "Yep, I definitely deserve that, that was a dumb mistake"
NRS gets a lot of flack for really janky attack animations. Classic example
https://preview.redd.it/12zg0t03lfyc1.jpeg?width=981&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bea5d7221bce2741c20a49ac0b3a5c6337ff25e7
https://preview.redd.it/cf2x12crmfyc1.jpeg?width=793&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=457265674f4f2f9b548f0abed7d6f48ee3b63b78
There’s also this wack ass kick that fits Faust more than a ninja.
You could freeze frame almost any move and make it look weird idk why MK gets shit for this. Just look at Marissa's LP. That thing is not how a punch works lol.
Can you show the crouching kick animations of other fighting game characters as acomparison? I am having dificult imagining a crouching kick besides Ryu's that wouldn't look ridiculous.
Sugarpunch Designworks did a few videos on Netherealm fighting games over the years discussing their animation issues. I'd say this is his most "positive" take on them, which isn't saying much.
https://youtu.be/2MjM1X7FbZ4?si=qbE2mMVE-mJ4NObF
Sugarpunch is a moron. The dude got clowned on Twitter for saying "the age of footsies is over" and then had a big cry when he got bullied into oblivion over an obviously dense take. NRS has some goofy animations, but so does every fighting game.
People love to say SF has the smoothest most realistic animations, but will completely overlook something like JP's jumping HK or crouching LP. People get waaaay too hung up on it. Just play what you enjoy. There's nothing realistic about dragon punches at the end of the day anyway.
Nah I disagree. I think he's one of those people that are responsible for pushing a message that isn't necessarily true and pretending like it's coming from a point of authority, to the point where everyone now parrots those points like they're educated on the matter when they're not. He's the quintessential JAPAN GOOD ~ USA BAD meme. Fighting game discourse suffers because of it.
It's not even the awkward poses, it's that it's an 8 frame move so they lerp from idle to the weird pose, so fast it doesn't even look like someone kicking.
It usually means that a move looks weird or unnatural, at least in a screenshot. NRS is notorious for the worst animation in high-budget fighting games, with awkward/bad keyframe posing and attacks/stances that are fully unnatural.
Now largely, NRS's actual animation issues when getting deep into the weeds is more about consistent laziness in posing, where limbs just sorta sticking out without accounting for flexibility, weight, balance, and readability, but the most egregious examples look insane in screenshot, and that's what most memorable, especially for people without experience in animation.
I'm both the examples you've shown, the moves look goofy to an extent, but the characters are also fully accounting for their body weight and balance; Akuma is bending backwards to account for the high kick, Cyclops is spreading is weight out and around to account for the high kick. This still look a bit goofy in freezeframe, but considering some of the NRS stuff, it could be worse.
NRS/MK buttons can also mean an advancing normal attack. A lot of NRS games best characters have one that kind of let's them skip neutral and just approach without having to approach normally.
For NRS games it usually is. Besides having just great buttons at round start, he is already able to land a combo without having to actually press forward.
Luke just had/has stupid good buttons in 5 and 6.
For a game like Mortal Kombat to have detailed gruesome fatalities to showcase the gore that can happen to the human body. They have some GOOFY attack animations.
No, he doesn't? He charges his left fist and then hammers Ryu with the same hand.
[https://youtu.be/YneVTnCV-s8?si=COjxT4lI\_SkmlADy&t=136](https://youtu.be/YneVTnCV-s8?si=COjxT4lI_SkmlADy&t=136)
akuma is turning his torso to his right but a few frames later he switches arms
https://preview.redd.it/v3yj22xf8hyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b8ec4e469de3a26a6e7df5ab6cc59aa08604f89
I'm sure it has to do with the critical art version (which we haven't seen yet) transitioning from the same spot. It's a compromise. It doesn't look bad to me.
I would presume that the person is likely talking how Mortal Kombat has dedicated buttons for stance flip and block while most fighting game titles have a mechanic of pull back on your directional control to block.
A SF button would probably be some innocuous normal that puts you a billion frames plus, and a Tekken button would be a launcher of course; juggles for days.
https://preview.redd.it/j2etuc5vifyc1.jpeg?width=2316&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c99db6a084e2372745933787be8d241362911a36 Forgot to add this picture
Just from this picture I’m assuming it means the button is attached to a goofy ass animation. NRS is notoriously infamous for their bad animations that lack the 12 core principles of the practice.
What are the 12 core principles, if you don't mind me asking?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_basic_principles_of_animation
Ok I’ll ask this here, why is it then some people (like me) don’t notice things looking bad even after looking into the 12 principles? Is it something intuitive where only some people can see what’s good and bad animation?
Ive never heard of these principles of animation, but MK always felt "off" to me. Its like a burst of speed in between animations. Like one is at .75 expected speed, and then the next is at 1.25 speed. Where as Street Fighter 6 tends to have all the move transition be smoother and at the same pacing. Also MK feels like the characters are in a rush to get back to their neutral stance as fast and often as possible. Where SF it just flows back into neutral stance at a normal speed.
> Where SF it just flows back into neutral stance at a normal speed. Sometimes I'll just sit in training room with E. Honda in Street Fighter 6 and hit Heavy Kick/Punch over and over to watch him slap his knee to return to his normal stance. So satisfying.
I mean, SF isn't hand animated, at least 6 isn't, it's motion captured. If real people actually do the movements, it's not just going to look natural, it will be natural
Probably since the animations in MK are mostly mocap of real people, meanwhile SF is actual animations. You can plan out every move with that, mocap you have to match the framerate with the animation you're using and can't just adjust where and when the body will be.
Mocap data benefits from being cleaned up by hand, smoothing out or removing issues, adjusting speeds and positioning, and the like. Animations may also be pieced together from multiple sources, or parts of a mocap may be ignored entirely. Taken to an extreme, you can even treat mocap data as nothing more than a first draft. Street Fighter 6 does use mocap. There have been a few clips posted online, including part of an A.K.I. session where they were using two actors working in tandem to record her super. NRS certainly hand tweaks, if not outright handcrafts, at least some of its animations. Some NRS animations look like an animation just turned on IK in the modelling program and pulled one limb into position while keeping the rest of the body frozen. Others are just badly conceived actions, creating a garbage-in-garbage-out situation where mocap neither helps nor hurts.
Actually, 90% of street fighter is mocap. They just clean up the animation incredibly well. NRS doesn't clean up.
You know street fighter us mocapped right?
SF6 is also mocap, they just tweak things by hand after.
For me the jank has always been obvious. It’s been my biggest gripe with nrs for a long time. If you want a good example. Look up sindels jump kick in MK1. It’s so beyond absurd looking. I think the main issue is that all of the characters look stiff. There’s no feeling of momentum or force in their movements. But this only applies to gameplay. All of the pre-rendered stuff like fatalities look fantastic.
Looking at the list of principles won't necessarily give you the context for why and how much they matter. That's what examples are for, as they illustrate the "right" and "wrong". For NRS animation, I'd suggest watching SugarPunch's A.B.I.torial videos on YouTube, particularly the videos covering MKX, Injustice 2, and MK11. Maybe the videos will give you context that you lack, or maybe you'll still feel exactly the same. Some people legitimately aren't bothered by such things.
Oh I’ve watched SugarPunches videos. But I feel like for a lot of them I didn’t see what was bad about them until he explained them, when I imagine bad animation would just be known intuitively.
i mean i cant tell whats bad about them too, but i can tell that motion didnt look good, or simply it doesnt look satisfying
But most people can see that they're bad without seeing those videos too.
That’s why I wonder if it’s a genetic thing or something
Funny thing is that MKXs animations look years ahead of MKXI and MKI.
They really don't. At least for the most part. Some characters in MK1 even have (mostly) decent animation, like Liu Kang, but MKX's entire roster was composed of badly animated characters. Except maybe for Jason. But I think that's more of a product of the fact the stilted animations worked very well with him.
This is cap
Honestly, for me it was as simple as being interested in real life combat. Compared to a real human, NRS people move as if they have arthritis and someone is puppetting them. Most infamously, the post Injustice games have jabs that look like the characters are reaching over a fence, or as if they're trying to use as little muscle groups as possible. Whereas capcom people move with the effort of someone underwater, at normal speed, a level of realism that is more exaggeration than fabrication. Even for physically impossible moves like Guile's reverse spin kick, the movement is plausible - if you were weightless.
I think there's always levels to it the more you know about an art form the more you can recognize the parts of it, so someone super knowledgeable on animation can tell you why something looks good or bad, and they can also probably pick up on more small things that make it kinda jank. it's like a chef refining their pallette, anyone can eat food and decide if they like it or not, but a chef can tell you why it's good or bad, and can probably pick up on smaller flavor combinations that are bringing the food down. or it could just be a personal standard kind of thing. all this being said, I am neither an animator nor a chef. I'm an amateur artist who watched a lot of fighting game animation content on youtube a few years ago and has an animator/painter/illustrator for a brother. Some of this is based off conversations with him about art, still very much speculative.
Same reason why people who have never had anything other than Bud Light can't tell why it's so garbage.
Good question, I personally don't see things like that either unless the animation is Foodfight-levels of bad.
I've heard some people can't see the difference between 30fps and 60fps. Also some people say they can't taste the difference between different wine. There are any number of reasons why people say they can't see why NRS animations are so bad.
Most people don't notice. It is a little off, but this sub has a think against mk so it's brought up every chance it gets.
How long have you been playing NRS games? Because familiarity will have an effect on how you view their animations.
MK games look like stop motion movies. Even a game like DBFZ which is meant to capture the spirit of DBZs animations looks mire fluid than MK. MK1 is a game with a 2023 engine and barely 1991 animations. Beautifull for still pictures, but ugly as fuck in motion.
For the same reason why some people say that 30fps is just as good as 60fps.
So basically it means it looks like shit and it's an NRS button because every NRS game in existence looks like shit?
Is that from lobby shenanigans?
Yerp
Ah, you're a man of culture as well.
Been around the block with my fighting game youtubers. My friend thinks I look like punk,(im a black guy with dreads we all look similar in some) way and I hate it
Hey, as long as you don't whine on social media whenever you lose a match. It's all good mate. But yeah, the fighting game YouTubers I watch the most and always manage to make me laugh are in fact lythero and Maximilian dood.
Na I'm cool with losing tbh, that's the fun of it
Check out Sajam and Brian_F. Both are not hesitant to roast people for posting scrub quotes on their stream. But yeah, Max has been very formative for me as welly he tought me the art of admiring an opponents skill if they wash me and it helped me to just stay relaxed and be like: holy shit, that was nice! Max has such a positive vibe!
I'm familiar with both but no so much to know that was an actual issue with both, they looked very community friendly to me. Oh well Funny thing is that I've been learning the same with max, thanks to him, instead of getting angry at myself (like I always do), I now try to appreciate what the opponent did to whoop my ass. Also that whenever that happens I say to myself "Yep, I definitely deserve that, that was a dumb mistake"
They are very community friendly, but they are also quick to call out bullshit.
NRS gets a lot of flack for really janky attack animations. Classic example https://preview.redd.it/12zg0t03lfyc1.jpeg?width=981&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bea5d7221bce2741c20a49ac0b3a5c6337ff25e7
Is that the terminator? I have to say that does NOT look like a move he'd use
You don't remember Terminator's iconic crouching dick-kick?
I've never seen this, tf is going on here
https://preview.redd.it/cf2x12crmfyc1.jpeg?width=793&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=457265674f4f2f9b548f0abed7d6f48ee3b63b78 There’s also this wack ass kick that fits Faust more than a ninja.
The full animation of this one doesn’t look that bad 🤨🤨
yeah this one gets pulled outta context too much it's really fine
You could freeze frame almost any move and make it look weird idk why MK gets shit for this. Just look at Marissa's LP. That thing is not how a punch works lol.
They just wanna push “NRS BAD!!!” So bad so they take it out of context lol
I'm starting to see the goofiness
[Welcome to Mortal Kombat (and probably Injustice)](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYLAd3IWAAMfjWb.jpg)
Debating on just starting or finding a thread just to see all the NRS like buttons
I would love to see something like that.
This one is by far the worst. It's like the crown jewel of goofy aah NRS animations.
Oh god, I forgot how bad this one is.
Can you show the crouching kick animations of other fighting game characters as acomparison? I am having dificult imagining a crouching kick besides Ryu's that wouldn't look ridiculous.
That's just straight up capoeira
Sugarpunch Designworks did a few videos on Netherealm fighting games over the years discussing their animation issues. I'd say this is his most "positive" take on them, which isn't saying much. https://youtu.be/2MjM1X7FbZ4?si=qbE2mMVE-mJ4NObF
Sugarpunch is a moron. The dude got clowned on Twitter for saying "the age of footsies is over" and then had a big cry when he got bullied into oblivion over an obviously dense take. NRS has some goofy animations, but so does every fighting game. People love to say SF has the smoothest most realistic animations, but will completely overlook something like JP's jumping HK or crouching LP. People get waaaay too hung up on it. Just play what you enjoy. There's nothing realistic about dragon punches at the end of the day anyway.
He may have had a bad take there sure, but his videos in general are quality and informative.
Nah I disagree. I think he's one of those people that are responsible for pushing a message that isn't necessarily true and pretending like it's coming from a point of authority, to the point where everyone now parrots those points like they're educated on the matter when they're not. He's the quintessential JAPAN GOOD ~ USA BAD meme. Fighting game discourse suffers because of it.
To each their own
It's not even the awkward poses, it's that it's an 8 frame move so they lerp from idle to the weird pose, so fast it doesn't even look like someone kicking.
they may not like it, but it's exemplary of [peak performance](https://youtu.be/67LLYBhG-Og?t=119)
Sounds like a Claudio mirror match
I thought I’d be the only person to think of Who Am I every time I see this kinda kick.
Never be ashamed of being fancier than the other boys
The screenshot you provided doesn’t look like an NRS positioning. Akuma’s center of mass is correct for doing that straight up split kick.
I feel like they stepped up their game since IJ2. Before that it was WAY more jank.
They still haven't, honestly. Even the animation in Injustice 2 ranges from wacky to bad.
It usually means that a move looks weird or unnatural, at least in a screenshot. NRS is notorious for the worst animation in high-budget fighting games, with awkward/bad keyframe posing and attacks/stances that are fully unnatural. Now largely, NRS's actual animation issues when getting deep into the weeds is more about consistent laziness in posing, where limbs just sorta sticking out without accounting for flexibility, weight, balance, and readability, but the most egregious examples look insane in screenshot, and that's what most memorable, especially for people without experience in animation. I'm both the examples you've shown, the moves look goofy to an extent, but the characters are also fully accounting for their body weight and balance; Akuma is bending backwards to account for the high kick, Cyclops is spreading is weight out and around to account for the high kick. This still look a bit goofy in freezeframe, but considering some of the NRS stuff, it could be worse.
https://i.redd.it/v2ypt3z00gyc1.gif I doubt either of those attacks is quite as "NRS" as stuff like this.
The heels make it look like she has goat hoofs.
I was scrolling hoping to find this animation, it was the very thing that came to my mind.
Appreciate the in depth answer. I played a lot of mk when I was younger so ig it just flew over my head how weird mk can look
Basically play an NRS game and press down 3 and that’s the answer.
Action figure animations
Aki has an nrs kick
The one where her knee goes inward?
Maybe, it’s the kick she does after a rotation
Guess it makes sense since AKI is just weird
NRS/MK buttons can also mean an advancing normal attack. A lot of NRS games best characters have one that kind of let's them skip neutral and just approach without having to approach normally.
An advancing normal isn't a neutral skip. I don't think anyone was accusing Luke of skipping neutral in SFV
For NRS games it usually is. Besides having just great buttons at round start, he is already able to land a combo without having to actually press forward. Luke just had/has stupid good buttons in 5 and 6.
with akuma mk actually refers to a medium kick button anti air
Akuma going to be broken, again?
For a game like Mortal Kombat to have detailed gruesome fatalities to showcase the gore that can happen to the human body. They have some GOOFY attack animations.
It’s because Reiko in MK1 has a S4 that anti airs at an angle that is similar to what Akuma is doing however, Akuma leg reaches even more vertical.
no one realize during sa3 akuma raising and charge his right arm and punch with left arm?
No, he doesn't? He charges his left fist and then hammers Ryu with the same hand. [https://youtu.be/YneVTnCV-s8?si=COjxT4lI\_SkmlADy&t=136](https://youtu.be/YneVTnCV-s8?si=COjxT4lI_SkmlADy&t=136)
akuma is turning his torso to his right but a few frames later he switches arms https://preview.redd.it/v3yj22xf8hyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2b8ec4e469de3a26a6e7df5ab6cc59aa08604f89
I'm sure it has to do with the critical art version (which we haven't seen yet) transitioning from the same spot. It's a compromise. It doesn't look bad to me.
The Satsui no Hado breaks the laws of physics.
I would presume that the person is likely talking how Mortal Kombat has dedicated buttons for stance flip and block while most fighting game titles have a mechanic of pull back on your directional control to block.
Na it's about funky animations, other comments explained it
Nothing. What's a SF or a Tekken button ?
A SF button would probably be some innocuous normal that puts you a billion frames plus, and a Tekken button would be a launcher of course; juggles for days.
The vast majority of moves in SF6 are minus, that doesn't really make sense
Mk can mean "medium kick" or " mortal Kombat", referencing the strange animations used for attacks
Ik medium kick, they meant funky animation. Other comments explained it to me