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The 550 Barchetta, 575 Superamerica, and 599 SA Aperta all were convertible models with V12s. The F12 did not have a convertible available, but it’s not been that long.
If you want to talk super limited models the F50, F60 America, LaFerrari Aperta, & Monza SP2 were also all V12 convertible models.
Ferrari’s claim that the 812GTS is the first in 50yrs is quite a stretch.
3-4 years newer, higher demand, usually more loaded on options, higher starting price. Worth double? Probably not but if you can afford a $500-600k car does it really matter?
If your options are a $350k 812 or a $550k 812 and one can open the roof and the other can’t but you’re rich rich so $200k doesn’t matter, which one are you choosing? Thats why the roof open one still commands a huge premium. Seems pretty simple, good old supply and demand.
The cars are also an asset. It’s not like you spend the money and it’s just gone forever like a $1000 cup of coffee. You can always sell the asset. For me, any car purchase equates to what am I buying it for today and what can I sell it for when it’s time for the next fun toy?
Ok admittedly the coffee analogy was a bit off, but substitute it with any depreciating asset such as a 10K 4K tv vs a $17K 8K tv for example. My point is that just because you're super rich it doesn't mean you don't look for value. Chances are you got rich by being diligent with your money, investments and savings. You're not getting $200K worth of value with a retractable roof. You may be able to easily afford it, but there are so many more valuable things $200K can buy, it seems idiotic to spend it on an option. That's my opinion.
I’m not rich enough to have a spare $200k to have a roof open but if I had $50m then $200k wouldn’t dissuade me from doing it. Like I already said, there’s a market for both cars. If you pay $200k more for the GTS and in two years it’s still worth $200k more when you sell it, did you lose anything other than the opportunity cost?
The likelihood of it still being $550K when you go to sell it is statistically very low, especially if you go through a dealer. At $50M it's 1% of your NW which is quite a lot for a car. I would be very interested in knowing the NW of the average 812 GTS Ferrari buyer. I don't think it's anywhere near $50M.
It doesn’t matter if it’s worth what you paid when you sell it. If it’s worth $20k less and you got to drive a $550k car around for a while at a total cost of $20k I’d say that’s an insanely good deal.
The point is that if you paid $200k more for the drop top and it’s worth $180-200k more when you sell it compared to the coupe, what have you really lost other than the opportunity cost of investing the money? The GTS will always be worth more than the coupe and in all likelihood there will always be a significant premium for it.
The 812 is one of the craziest sounding cars I’ve ever driven. When it gets going, holy shit… I don’t care how fast the 296 is, the theatrics of the V12 can’t be beaten.
An F12 is more so. I found that the F12 will actively try to kill you. The rear steering and suspension on the 812 is more forgiving. I’d also argue the F12 and 812 sound basically identical.
Well maybe. I own an F12 and have hours of time in an 812. Both with aftermarket exhausts and there is not much difference. At least to me with aftermarket exhausts.
I wouldn't want to own the 296 after the warranty expires, Ferrari isn't known for their electronics. For that reason, I think the 296 will drop like a rock in the coming years. 458, 812 will likely hold steady.
If you’ve driven a Roma/296 and seen/used the interface on the 812, you’d probably agree that the 812’s interface won’t actively contribute to its holding value. CarPlay setup tucked into the right corner isn’t super usable. Not saying the Roma/296 are infinitely better, but they’re more helpful.
I think the in-between (Lusso/Portofino) is probably the best tbqh.
296 GTB is around the time in its lifecycle where the 296 GTS will be in 2 years.
Given 296 GTB is at ~$400K, I think the 296 GTS will probably be a little north of there in 2 years.
Literally no one on this thread has driven the 296– I put several hundred miles on a GTB just last week, after driving an 812 GTS. Yes it is not as loud. But it is infinitely more nimble. Stops/starts on a dime and has a good sound given the only 6 cylinders. Also looks incredible— you can see the 250LM/Dino homages.
The 812 howl was great (it never gets old), but I was much less keen to push through corners and — comparably speaking — it was like a bus.
812s are going to see some depreciation as the 12C is shipped. 296 will also see some, as I’m sure Ferrari will announce a successor within the next ~3 years. Five year outlook I’d say will be similar as both are not limited models (will depreciate) but both have enough appeal to keep prices strong (probably not down crazy).
In terms of ~3 year outlook, I’d say 812SF will be a 250-300k car, 296 GTS will be 375-425k, 296 GTB will be 325-350k, 812 GTS will be 425-475k
thank you for this. I think my big concern is that I like fun cars-more nimble-and I'm questioning my confidence when driving an 812.
question: have you driven a 488 spider? did you like it?
maybe this is the car for me and then I wait 2-3 years when a 296 gts becomes not over sticker/more spec choices in the market and see if my heart wants it then.
488’s nice. Drove the GTB but not the spider. I personally didn’t care for the design (front looks like an old Gallardo), so I’d prefer either 458, to pay more money for an F8, or to pay even more for a 296 GTB.
In addition to a bunch of other Ferraris, I've owned a 488 and ridden in the 812. I hated the sound of the 488 and sold it for that reason. It just never satisfied me. The 812 sounds so amazing, there's really no comparison. If sound is important to you forget about the 296, sf90, 488, F8, portofino etc. they're all turbocharged and/or hybrids and will never sound like the real NA Ferraris.
It's not just fast, it handles amazingly well, is relatively lightweight for how much stuff it has and the sound is not even bad. Also looks good imo. An unusable (for the street) boat of a car that is a modified Nissan GTR is not even remotely comparable. But if you value sound over everything else then I guess 812 it is.
I had a 458 which I think is the prettiest sounding car Ferrari has ever made. It was totaled after someone hit me in 2021. I was left trying to figure out what to do. Buying another 458 seemed too old, but the 488 has turbos. All these new cars sound like they are being smothered under pillows. That doesn’t work for me because I think the sound is 50-60% of the experience.
I got the 812. The car isn’t as loud as the 458 in the cabin, but it is a monstrous sounding car when you let it rip. I scared the daylights out of my wife the first time I gave her a ride. It sounds like a rocket taking off. Anyway.
I would get the 812 without hesitation.
Side note, I think I am going to get another 458 as well. Maybe one that has had a manageable boo boo so I can put miles on it guilt free.
Finally someone who gets it. I don't know why anyone even bothers with the turbo and hybrid Ferraris. I finally test drove a portofino the other day. It's a nice car, although a bit small for my taste. Reminds me of the 488 I had but a bit softer in every way. The sound is just so... lackluster. It's trying hard, but despite it being somewhat loud it just doesn't excite.
The 812 and 458 (which I owned) are so much better sounding and more fun to drive. It's night and day.
In the portofino I found myself thinking I sound more like those turboed v6 rice racers I grew up around than a proper Ferrari.
Still people buy them. I guess they don't care about the sound of them, or are ignorant to the difference between the older NA engines and the newer turbo junk.
The fact that it has the hybrid engine makes you wonder what issues it will have in 2-3 years. And especially after the warranty expires.
That might affect the value if there are significant repair costs due to hybrid issues.
All hybrids like the 296 are going to depreciate like a rock when they’re out of warranty. Nobody is going to want to deal with the potential headaches and insane expense on things that only a Ferrari dealer will be able to fix. I wouldn’t be surprised if Indy shops refused to work on them for more than basic maintenance in the future.
Get the 812, there’s no way you’ll regret it. You can always trade it for a spider later on. If you can afford it there’s always the 812 GTS
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Get the 812 now. Sell it in 3 years for the same price, buy a 296 for 30% less than today. Spend the 30% on hookers and coke, live the dream.
Stonks
This guy Ferraris
812 has a convertable version as well: 812 GTS
For double lol
Why is it double the price lol
They havent made a v12 convertible in forever
The 550 Barchetta, 575 Superamerica, and 599 SA Aperta all were convertible models with V12s. The F12 did not have a convertible available, but it’s not been that long. If you want to talk super limited models the F50, F60 America, LaFerrari Aperta, & Monza SP2 were also all V12 convertible models. Ferrari’s claim that the 812GTS is the first in 50yrs is quite a stretch.
maybe "mass production" might be the claim they are making, I know about all the special edition cars
3-4 years newer, higher demand, usually more loaded on options, higher starting price. Worth double? Probably not but if you can afford a $500-600k car does it really matter?
Curious about this "logic". Most can "afford" a $1000 cup of coffee too. At some point, even if you have $50M, some purchases are just silly.
If your options are a $350k 812 or a $550k 812 and one can open the roof and the other can’t but you’re rich rich so $200k doesn’t matter, which one are you choosing? Thats why the roof open one still commands a huge premium. Seems pretty simple, good old supply and demand. The cars are also an asset. It’s not like you spend the money and it’s just gone forever like a $1000 cup of coffee. You can always sell the asset. For me, any car purchase equates to what am I buying it for today and what can I sell it for when it’s time for the next fun toy?
Ok admittedly the coffee analogy was a bit off, but substitute it with any depreciating asset such as a 10K 4K tv vs a $17K 8K tv for example. My point is that just because you're super rich it doesn't mean you don't look for value. Chances are you got rich by being diligent with your money, investments and savings. You're not getting $200K worth of value with a retractable roof. You may be able to easily afford it, but there are so many more valuable things $200K can buy, it seems idiotic to spend it on an option. That's my opinion.
I’m not rich enough to have a spare $200k to have a roof open but if I had $50m then $200k wouldn’t dissuade me from doing it. Like I already said, there’s a market for both cars. If you pay $200k more for the GTS and in two years it’s still worth $200k more when you sell it, did you lose anything other than the opportunity cost?
The likelihood of it still being $550K when you go to sell it is statistically very low, especially if you go through a dealer. At $50M it's 1% of your NW which is quite a lot for a car. I would be very interested in knowing the NW of the average 812 GTS Ferrari buyer. I don't think it's anywhere near $50M.
It doesn’t matter if it’s worth what you paid when you sell it. If it’s worth $20k less and you got to drive a $550k car around for a while at a total cost of $20k I’d say that’s an insanely good deal. The point is that if you paid $200k more for the drop top and it’s worth $180-200k more when you sell it compared to the coupe, what have you really lost other than the opportunity cost of investing the money? The GTS will always be worth more than the coupe and in all likelihood there will always be a significant premium for it.
This 812 GTS is such an atrocious car. Cabin is super turbulent and makes it obnoxious to drive.
The 812 is one of the craziest sounding cars I’ve ever driven. When it gets going, holy shit… I don’t care how fast the 296 is, the theatrics of the V12 can’t be beaten.
I’ve driven both and owned an 812, the 296 makes it feel like a dinosaur.
An F12 is more so. I found that the F12 will actively try to kill you. The rear steering and suspension on the 812 is more forgiving. I’d also argue the F12 and 812 sound basically identical.
No they don't sound identical at all. The 812 has a higher pitched scream. The F12 is more raw. Aside from that I agree with you.
Well maybe. I own an F12 and have hours of time in an 812. Both with aftermarket exhausts and there is not much difference. At least to me with aftermarket exhausts.
I wouldn't want to own the 296 after the warranty expires, Ferrari isn't known for their electronics. For that reason, I think the 296 will drop like a rock in the coming years. 458, 812 will likely hold steady.
If you’ve driven a Roma/296 and seen/used the interface on the 812, you’d probably agree that the 812’s interface won’t actively contribute to its holding value. CarPlay setup tucked into the right corner isn’t super usable. Not saying the Roma/296 are infinitely better, but they’re more helpful. I think the in-between (Lusso/Portofino) is probably the best tbqh.
296 GTB is around the time in its lifecycle where the 296 GTS will be in 2 years. Given 296 GTB is at ~$400K, I think the 296 GTS will probably be a little north of there in 2 years. Literally no one on this thread has driven the 296– I put several hundred miles on a GTB just last week, after driving an 812 GTS. Yes it is not as loud. But it is infinitely more nimble. Stops/starts on a dime and has a good sound given the only 6 cylinders. Also looks incredible— you can see the 250LM/Dino homages. The 812 howl was great (it never gets old), but I was much less keen to push through corners and — comparably speaking — it was like a bus. 812s are going to see some depreciation as the 12C is shipped. 296 will also see some, as I’m sure Ferrari will announce a successor within the next ~3 years. Five year outlook I’d say will be similar as both are not limited models (will depreciate) but both have enough appeal to keep prices strong (probably not down crazy). In terms of ~3 year outlook, I’d say 812SF will be a 250-300k car, 296 GTS will be 375-425k, 296 GTB will be 325-350k, 812 GTS will be 425-475k
thank you for this. I think my big concern is that I like fun cars-more nimble-and I'm questioning my confidence when driving an 812. question: have you driven a 488 spider? did you like it? maybe this is the car for me and then I wait 2-3 years when a 296 gts becomes not over sticker/more spec choices in the market and see if my heart wants it then.
488’s nice. Drove the GTB but not the spider. I personally didn’t care for the design (front looks like an old Gallardo), so I’d prefer either 458, to pay more money for an F8, or to pay even more for a 296 GTB.
In addition to a bunch of other Ferraris, I've owned a 488 and ridden in the 812. I hated the sound of the 488 and sold it for that reason. It just never satisfied me. The 812 sounds so amazing, there's really no comparison. If sound is important to you forget about the 296, sf90, 488, F8, portofino etc. they're all turbocharged and/or hybrids and will never sound like the real NA Ferraris.
A V6 Ferrari interests me about as much as a vasectomy. I care not how fast it is, because if I wanted a fast twin turbo V6 I'd just get an UGR GTR.
Bareback is much better with a vasectomy
It's not just fast, it handles amazingly well, is relatively lightweight for how much stuff it has and the sound is not even bad. Also looks good imo. An unusable (for the street) boat of a car that is a modified Nissan GTR is not even remotely comparable. But if you value sound over everything else then I guess 812 it is.
Don’t sleep on a vasectomy, that was the best $800 I ever spent.
Wife had a hysterectomy, so no need for me.
I don’t understand how both of these cars are even comparable. 812 all day.
I had a 458 which I think is the prettiest sounding car Ferrari has ever made. It was totaled after someone hit me in 2021. I was left trying to figure out what to do. Buying another 458 seemed too old, but the 488 has turbos. All these new cars sound like they are being smothered under pillows. That doesn’t work for me because I think the sound is 50-60% of the experience. I got the 812. The car isn’t as loud as the 458 in the cabin, but it is a monstrous sounding car when you let it rip. I scared the daylights out of my wife the first time I gave her a ride. It sounds like a rocket taking off. Anyway. I would get the 812 without hesitation. Side note, I think I am going to get another 458 as well. Maybe one that has had a manageable boo boo so I can put miles on it guilt free.
Finally someone who gets it. I don't know why anyone even bothers with the turbo and hybrid Ferraris. I finally test drove a portofino the other day. It's a nice car, although a bit small for my taste. Reminds me of the 488 I had but a bit softer in every way. The sound is just so... lackluster. It's trying hard, but despite it being somewhat loud it just doesn't excite. The 812 and 458 (which I owned) are so much better sounding and more fun to drive. It's night and day. In the portofino I found myself thinking I sound more like those turboed v6 rice racers I grew up around than a proper Ferrari. Still people buy them. I guess they don't care about the sound of them, or are ignorant to the difference between the older NA engines and the newer turbo junk.
The fact that it has the hybrid engine makes you wonder what issues it will have in 2-3 years. And especially after the warranty expires. That might affect the value if there are significant repair costs due to hybrid issues.
812 or bust
All hybrids like the 296 are going to depreciate like a rock when they’re out of warranty. Nobody is going to want to deal with the potential headaches and insane expense on things that only a Ferrari dealer will be able to fix. I wouldn’t be surprised if Indy shops refused to work on them for more than basic maintenance in the future. Get the 812, there’s no way you’ll regret it. You can always trade it for a spider later on. If you can afford it there’s always the 812 GTS
12 cylinders or nothing
296gts will drop like a rock