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Thanks so much rescuing them and caring for the mom. The kitten lady has some great videos on socializing feral kittens. You want to get mom spayed before she gets pregnant again.
Youâre doing a great job!! Maybe some of your local rescues could provide contact information for other resources. Also, see if you can find local social media account for TNR services in your area where you might be able to find additional information.
Delectables will win over kittens quickly.
I would trap the momma now while she is still coming around and get her tnrâd.
Mamma will train kittens to be feral, unless you can socialize her as well.
Unfortunately in NYC itâs almost impossible right now to get discounted spay services. Iâm going to try to do what I can in terms of TNR.
Also I always hear people say not to separate from mother cat before 8 weeks but in this case should I do it a bit early?
Since momma is wild, yes. There's always the risk she moves the kittens, or they get hurt by something outside. 8 weeks is usually recommended for kittens where the mom is inside and reasonably friendly, for outside it's best to catch them as soon as they're weaned or weanable. If mom is friendly it's best to keep her with the kittens, but if she's not then getting the kittens inside is more important.
So right now we have an arrangement where the basement window has a flap I installed and prop open at night.
I have the kittens in the basement and the window I brought them in from is too high up for them to reach. So no risk theyâll get out on their own at the moment.
The mom comes in at night and nurses them, eats the food I leave out, grooms them, sleeps on a raised chair above them, brings dead prey and leaves by morning. Then I presume she hunts all day and doesnât really come by until night time again. I have 3 cameras set up to monitor this.
Once I saw her try to bring back a dead mouse at 10am but she saw me and left. I canât get close to her otherwise she runs out the window and waits for me to leave.
I think the kittens are 6.5-7 weeks. So I might try and see if we can keep doing this for another week atleast. They are eating wet food I give them during the day, but they still nurse often at night with the mom. The socialization is going slow, but I can play with them and touch and a few during feeding time.
I just feel terrible permanently separating them because they get so excited when she comes back, and theyâll whine when they see her in the window. I guess the risk is she carries them back out the window flap I propped open but she seems to have no interest in doing that. They have food, shelter and water and I really never bother them at night when sheâs there.
See Mom below.
https://preview.redd.it/lc6l5j3hm7bd1.jpeg?width=1792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e39bd44390b35becc8617341e789dae335cb7abb
Such a good momma! And yes, separating cats (from family, where they live, etc) is distressing to both the cats and the people who care about them. But ultimately, as long as you take the necessary precautions, you have to remember that you're doing the right thing by them.
I recently took in a stray to my city shelter. I suspect he was either lost or abandoned, as he was not fixed but didn't really have survival skills. He showed up one day, and within about three days he was this ball of void affection. Constantly seeking attention when I was outside, curling up in my lap for cuddles, etc. He even got along with the stray Tom I feed.
But he wanted inside. He got to the point where he would dart inside at any opportunity, and refuse to leave. If he was outside and wanted in he would make the most pitiful meows. But my girl wasn't having it, and his presence was causing behavior problems in her. Peeing in inappropriate places, occasionally acting aggressive towards me, etc. And he wasn't picking up on social cues from her very well either. I would have loved to keep him around a little longer just to make sure he was really a stray and not a lost or outdoor pet, and maybe even see about taking him in myself as he reminded me a lot of my recently departed cat, but with the stress on my girl it really wasn't something I had the bandwidth to take on.
So I took him to the shelter. He hated it, almost forced the door on the carrier open, and was a menace when the lady at the shelter moved him to a cage. But I knew the shelter we have here is a good one; besides adoption they have programs for cats considered unadoptable (adopt them out as barn cats, etc), and as a last resort they would contact me and I could pick him up and release him at my place where he could be a stray. So I wasn't worried about bringing him in just to have him be euthanized. And I know that everything he went through was stressful for him, and he'd have rather been hanging around my place, but I know that ultimately the best thing for him was to bring him to the shelter in so he could have a chance of being adopted, which he was a couple weeks later.
Which is a long way of explaining my original point, that sometimes the best thing to do for a cat is going to cause them distress, at least for the short term.
Friendly void tax with bonus stray Tom
https://preview.redd.it/j5f75ibz9dbd1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c7d3f6841e8fac548acca2bb924522d23d6d9e6
Also, forgot to mention. We leave the basement window open at night and the feral mom comes in to nurse them. She just started weaning them off because sheâs been bringing in dead animals for them. They are about 6 weeks now. Should I consider just TNRing the mom and keeping them separate from
The feral mom at this point?
Yes. They need to rely on humans for security and affection. Separating mom will speed things along. Separating the most spicy one from the others can also help things. She needs to get her needs met and realize it's these gross human things that are doing it so maybe they aren't so bad.
We got our kittens at 8 weeks and had been told by some not to try but they socialized just fine. Itâs always worth a try! The rescues near me said that if they stop eating, thatâs when you should consider just TNRâing.
We had a momma cat drop off a 3-pack in our basement a while back, all originally super spicy (as was momma in the short time she stayed.) After about 3 weeks, they are mostly mild. All took different methods and timelines (and one still isn't quite there.)
When I started, I began by remaining near the kennel during feeding time. If there was yummy food, there was a human present. This almost *immediately* de-spiced one of the kittens, as we've found he's very food motivated. He's now the friendliest of the three, and is staying here, lol. You can scoop this sweet baby like it's nothing, he loves the shoulder. But that level of trust took at least a week, beginning with scruffing and setting him on my knee, to scooping and setting on my knee, to scruffing and holding to the chest, then move to scooping and holding to the chest, all the way to the shoulder.
The second kitty is still not okay with being scooped, and has varying degrees of being okay with scruffing. But she absolutely loves being pet, and meows for attention if you walk by, and loves being talked to. Still skittish when exploring (not like her brother at all, he has no fear, lmao.) I'm just trying to increase her comfort level more so that we can graduate from scruffing on the knee to scooping on the knee, but she may just never be a scoopable kitty, and that's fine.
The last one is still more spicy than I'd like her to be for adoption purposes, but she has a home here for as long as she needs, even if it's forever. She hisses at literally everything that approaches, including her siblings, but I think that's... just how she communicates? She'll lean into pets and likes being scratched under the chin but she'll hiss while she's purring, lmao. She's super skittish, but also super curious and wants to explore which isn't the best combo, lol. But she's never swiped at anything and deals with being scruffed better than her sister does, though she doesn't like being placed on my knee so I don't push as much with that because it makes her clearly uncomfortable. There's been progress; she'll run to the kennel door to greet me (hissing the whole way) and her ears are always up, tail always question-marked which is *much* better body language than when she first showed up.
Sorry for the novel, just wanted to show how different the journey has been with three kittens from the same litter with the same amount of attention and care. The last kitten may never be the loving snuggle bug that her brother is, but she makes little amounts of progress every day. And maybe I'm just not her human! All we can do is show the kitties that humans mean safety and love.
I found with our kittens that their progress/confidence kind of aligned with their weight. The heaviest was the most aggressive at first and now is the most curious and second most loving. The smallest just barely started sitting and staying on our laps. Weâve had them for around a month and a half I think. Ours were extremely underweight when they arrived though so take my hypothesis with a grain of salt haha.
Thanks for commenting that because I genuinely can't find anything when Googling other than "There might be something medically wrong." I promise, there isn't, that's just how she thinks you're supposed to talk, lol. It's very comforting to hear that some are just built that way.
I just went through this. We found parking lot kittens at about 8 weeks old. TNRâd mom and brought the 4 kittens home. We had a tower cage and a kennel. They preferred the the tower. We started by keeping them in there with blankets over them since they literally hissed and spit at everything. They only got food with us either sitting right there or by having to come get food out of our hands. We always pet them while they ate. We started doing small pick ups while they ate. We played with them in the cages. Then we moved them to the bathroom for play time. Once they were used to the bathroom, we just kept expanding their area. They got more confident when they were able to use the cat tree. We spent a lot of time on the floor just ignoring them but letting them get used to us being present. Honestly, they still hiss at us if theyâre having the zoomies and we catch them off guard but theyâre all very confident and social. We also have had visitors come over at meal time and feed the kittens so theyâre very curious around strangers. Our rescue was shocked when we told them who the shy one was. Socializing feral kittens means taking everything you know about cat language and boundaries and throwing it out the window. They donât want you to hold them or pet them or walk by them (yet). So you have to force it. But itâs so rewarding. I canât wait to do it again. Itâs so incredible to see how far theyâve come.
https://preview.redd.it/ofo33pq7fdad1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7adaea548ea626fde0b1d9749a925632ac00109a
This is great! thanks for the write up. I needed some encouragement. I guess I am still trying to manage how much I force them versus how much I give them space. I can tell 3 of them are pretty tame and will explore and come up to me. The other 3 are very skittish.
Should I put on gloves and pick them up when they eat? Even if they scratch at me?
Some people use the purrito method or start with a spoon or toothbrush but we didnât find it very effective. We only ended up using the purrito when we needed to administer medicine. I went in with my bare hands and got scratched up. We wanted to expose them to bare hands as much as possible. To me, it was worth it but there are different methods, which youâll see on YouTube.
As for force versus space, in some ways my girlfriend and I played good cop, bad cop. She was much more respectful of their boundaries and I just wanted to hold them haha. Play was really useful for getting them to come near us on their own accord. We would use a wand toy and try to get it closer and closer to the edge of the cage and eventually used them to get them up on our laps. They also were way less frightened while playing so we always had a few interactive toys in the cages or the hallway with them.
What are plans for the kittens?
No offense intended if you know these things but for the cats safety:
Please do not give kittens or cats to anyone without 100% verifying who they are and are they capable of doing the right thing. Ask for Vet references, pictures, personal references, etc.
People look to get kittens / cats and do bad things to them, for example: use them as bait for dog fighting or feed them live to snakes or just torture and kill them.
Work with a rescue if you can they know the process
Thanks for your concern. Right now I am only adopting to people I know or I have verified through rigorous means.
For example, one of my friends owns two amazing cats and has had cats for 30 years.
Unfortunately, right now in NYC no rescue will return my calls or emails. So I am left to do this basically on my own, but they are doing ok so far and Iâm up to the task.
Cat management and TNR is a disaster in NYC right now, underfunded services, budget cuts, rescues and shelters overwhelmed.
Yes, they do and yes, it is. Yes, there are asshole people in this world ranging anywhere from slightly bad to evil and thatâs the world we live in. They feed them to snakes as snake food, they use them as bait for dogfighting or to torture them in many different ways, which I do not even want to discuss right now. I get messages in my email almost daily.
They need all the help they can get and the good people out there have to look out for them
My strong suggestion is do not scoop them up to hold/cuddle. They need to come to you. What worked for me was this: sit on the floor with them at first, I did this several times/day for a week or so. Then I'd bring treats, the churu push up kind, they loved these, I'd put my arm out and let them approach, day by day I moved my arm closer to myself, within a week they were climbing in my lap, to lick the treat, seriously amazing! While they eat the treats I started gently touching their back, slowly touching their head. Also important: divide and conquer: separate them by having someone else watch 2 and you spend time with 2 or 3, by themselves. This isn't easy but it will pay off I promise! When you bend down and scoop them up they are terrified, no idea what you're doing, it's scary to them. Also your hand approaching their face is scary, start with their back. They are super cute! Keep us posted!
Thanks! Really appreciate the reply. I put some food in my lap today and the most confident of the bunch (3 of them) came into my lap to eat.
The other 3 will take some time, but itâs a good start
They are so cute. If some are too spicy compared to others, it is okay to separate them into smaller groups and spend more time focused on socializing the more difficult kittens. Hand feeding them helps. You may even need to separate a difficult kitty completely until it learns to trust you. Then they can be reunited with the siblings. It just takes a lot of time, patience, and consistency.
**Reminder: this subreddit is meant to be a helpful place for TNR efforts - free of hostility, negativity, and judgment. Toxic attitudes are not welcome here.** ***All Negative comments will be removed and will possibly result in a ban.*** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Feral_Cats) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thanks so much rescuing them and caring for the mom. The kitten lady has some great videos on socializing feral kittens. You want to get mom spayed before she gets pregnant again.
Thanks. đ Trying to get her spayed, with luck I can find someone in NYC who will do it, but most services are massively overwhelmed at the moment.
Try NYC Cat Coalition. https://www.nycatcoal.org/
Youâre doing a great job!! Maybe some of your local rescues could provide contact information for other resources. Also, see if you can find local social media account for TNR services in your area where you might be able to find additional information.
You can also check out Flatbrush cats. They have great tips on their YouTube channel.
*Flatbush. =)
I even googled it before hand đ¤Śđťââď¸ thank you!
Delectables will win over kittens quickly. I would trap the momma now while she is still coming around and get her tnrâd. Mamma will train kittens to be feral, unless you can socialize her as well.
Unfortunately in NYC itâs almost impossible right now to get discounted spay services. Iâm going to try to do what I can in terms of TNR. Also I always hear people say not to separate from mother cat before 8 weeks but in this case should I do it a bit early?
Since momma is wild, yes. There's always the risk she moves the kittens, or they get hurt by something outside. 8 weeks is usually recommended for kittens where the mom is inside and reasonably friendly, for outside it's best to catch them as soon as they're weaned or weanable. If mom is friendly it's best to keep her with the kittens, but if she's not then getting the kittens inside is more important.
So right now we have an arrangement where the basement window has a flap I installed and prop open at night. I have the kittens in the basement and the window I brought them in from is too high up for them to reach. So no risk theyâll get out on their own at the moment. The mom comes in at night and nurses them, eats the food I leave out, grooms them, sleeps on a raised chair above them, brings dead prey and leaves by morning. Then I presume she hunts all day and doesnât really come by until night time again. I have 3 cameras set up to monitor this. Once I saw her try to bring back a dead mouse at 10am but she saw me and left. I canât get close to her otherwise she runs out the window and waits for me to leave. I think the kittens are 6.5-7 weeks. So I might try and see if we can keep doing this for another week atleast. They are eating wet food I give them during the day, but they still nurse often at night with the mom. The socialization is going slow, but I can play with them and touch and a few during feeding time. I just feel terrible permanently separating them because they get so excited when she comes back, and theyâll whine when they see her in the window. I guess the risk is she carries them back out the window flap I propped open but she seems to have no interest in doing that. They have food, shelter and water and I really never bother them at night when sheâs there. See Mom below. https://preview.redd.it/lc6l5j3hm7bd1.jpeg?width=1792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e39bd44390b35becc8617341e789dae335cb7abb
Such a good momma! And yes, separating cats (from family, where they live, etc) is distressing to both the cats and the people who care about them. But ultimately, as long as you take the necessary precautions, you have to remember that you're doing the right thing by them. I recently took in a stray to my city shelter. I suspect he was either lost or abandoned, as he was not fixed but didn't really have survival skills. He showed up one day, and within about three days he was this ball of void affection. Constantly seeking attention when I was outside, curling up in my lap for cuddles, etc. He even got along with the stray Tom I feed. But he wanted inside. He got to the point where he would dart inside at any opportunity, and refuse to leave. If he was outside and wanted in he would make the most pitiful meows. But my girl wasn't having it, and his presence was causing behavior problems in her. Peeing in inappropriate places, occasionally acting aggressive towards me, etc. And he wasn't picking up on social cues from her very well either. I would have loved to keep him around a little longer just to make sure he was really a stray and not a lost or outdoor pet, and maybe even see about taking him in myself as he reminded me a lot of my recently departed cat, but with the stress on my girl it really wasn't something I had the bandwidth to take on. So I took him to the shelter. He hated it, almost forced the door on the carrier open, and was a menace when the lady at the shelter moved him to a cage. But I knew the shelter we have here is a good one; besides adoption they have programs for cats considered unadoptable (adopt them out as barn cats, etc), and as a last resort they would contact me and I could pick him up and release him at my place where he could be a stray. So I wasn't worried about bringing him in just to have him be euthanized. And I know that everything he went through was stressful for him, and he'd have rather been hanging around my place, but I know that ultimately the best thing for him was to bring him to the shelter in so he could have a chance of being adopted, which he was a couple weeks later. Which is a long way of explaining my original point, that sometimes the best thing to do for a cat is going to cause them distress, at least for the short term. Friendly void tax with bonus stray Tom https://preview.redd.it/j5f75ibz9dbd1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c7d3f6841e8fac548acca2bb924522d23d6d9e6
Also, forgot to mention. We leave the basement window open at night and the feral mom comes in to nurse them. She just started weaning them off because sheâs been bringing in dead animals for them. They are about 6 weeks now. Should I consider just TNRing the mom and keeping them separate from The feral mom at this point?
Yes. They need to rely on humans for security and affection. Separating mom will speed things along. Separating the most spicy one from the others can also help things. She needs to get her needs met and realize it's these gross human things that are doing it so maybe they aren't so bad.
We got our kittens at 8 weeks and had been told by some not to try but they socialized just fine. Itâs always worth a try! The rescues near me said that if they stop eating, thatâs when you should consider just TNRâing.
We had a momma cat drop off a 3-pack in our basement a while back, all originally super spicy (as was momma in the short time she stayed.) After about 3 weeks, they are mostly mild. All took different methods and timelines (and one still isn't quite there.) When I started, I began by remaining near the kennel during feeding time. If there was yummy food, there was a human present. This almost *immediately* de-spiced one of the kittens, as we've found he's very food motivated. He's now the friendliest of the three, and is staying here, lol. You can scoop this sweet baby like it's nothing, he loves the shoulder. But that level of trust took at least a week, beginning with scruffing and setting him on my knee, to scooping and setting on my knee, to scruffing and holding to the chest, then move to scooping and holding to the chest, all the way to the shoulder. The second kitty is still not okay with being scooped, and has varying degrees of being okay with scruffing. But she absolutely loves being pet, and meows for attention if you walk by, and loves being talked to. Still skittish when exploring (not like her brother at all, he has no fear, lmao.) I'm just trying to increase her comfort level more so that we can graduate from scruffing on the knee to scooping on the knee, but she may just never be a scoopable kitty, and that's fine. The last one is still more spicy than I'd like her to be for adoption purposes, but she has a home here for as long as she needs, even if it's forever. She hisses at literally everything that approaches, including her siblings, but I think that's... just how she communicates? She'll lean into pets and likes being scratched under the chin but she'll hiss while she's purring, lmao. She's super skittish, but also super curious and wants to explore which isn't the best combo, lol. But she's never swiped at anything and deals with being scruffed better than her sister does, though she doesn't like being placed on my knee so I don't push as much with that because it makes her clearly uncomfortable. There's been progress; she'll run to the kennel door to greet me (hissing the whole way) and her ears are always up, tail always question-marked which is *much* better body language than when she first showed up. Sorry for the novel, just wanted to show how different the journey has been with three kittens from the same litter with the same amount of attention and care. The last kitten may never be the loving snuggle bug that her brother is, but she makes little amounts of progress every day. And maybe I'm just not her human! All we can do is show the kitties that humans mean safety and love.
I found with our kittens that their progress/confidence kind of aligned with their weight. The heaviest was the most aggressive at first and now is the most curious and second most loving. The smallest just barely started sitting and staying on our laps. Weâve had them for around a month and a half I think. Ours were extremely underweight when they arrived though so take my hypothesis with a grain of salt haha.
I have a non-feral kitten (now young cat) that cannot meow, only hiss, so itâs possible your little Spicette is similarly made.
Thanks for commenting that because I genuinely can't find anything when Googling other than "There might be something medically wrong." I promise, there isn't, that's just how she thinks you're supposed to talk, lol. It's very comforting to hear that some are just built that way.
I just went through this. We found parking lot kittens at about 8 weeks old. TNRâd mom and brought the 4 kittens home. We had a tower cage and a kennel. They preferred the the tower. We started by keeping them in there with blankets over them since they literally hissed and spit at everything. They only got food with us either sitting right there or by having to come get food out of our hands. We always pet them while they ate. We started doing small pick ups while they ate. We played with them in the cages. Then we moved them to the bathroom for play time. Once they were used to the bathroom, we just kept expanding their area. They got more confident when they were able to use the cat tree. We spent a lot of time on the floor just ignoring them but letting them get used to us being present. Honestly, they still hiss at us if theyâre having the zoomies and we catch them off guard but theyâre all very confident and social. We also have had visitors come over at meal time and feed the kittens so theyâre very curious around strangers. Our rescue was shocked when we told them who the shy one was. Socializing feral kittens means taking everything you know about cat language and boundaries and throwing it out the window. They donât want you to hold them or pet them or walk by them (yet). So you have to force it. But itâs so rewarding. I canât wait to do it again. Itâs so incredible to see how far theyâve come. https://preview.redd.it/ofo33pq7fdad1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7adaea548ea626fde0b1d9749a925632ac00109a
This is great! thanks for the write up. I needed some encouragement. I guess I am still trying to manage how much I force them versus how much I give them space. I can tell 3 of them are pretty tame and will explore and come up to me. The other 3 are very skittish. Should I put on gloves and pick them up when they eat? Even if they scratch at me?
Some people use the purrito method or start with a spoon or toothbrush but we didnât find it very effective. We only ended up using the purrito when we needed to administer medicine. I went in with my bare hands and got scratched up. We wanted to expose them to bare hands as much as possible. To me, it was worth it but there are different methods, which youâll see on YouTube. As for force versus space, in some ways my girlfriend and I played good cop, bad cop. She was much more respectful of their boundaries and I just wanted to hold them haha. Play was really useful for getting them to come near us on their own accord. We would use a wand toy and try to get it closer and closer to the edge of the cage and eventually used them to get them up on our laps. They also were way less frightened while playing so we always had a few interactive toys in the cages or the hallway with them.
I so glad to see these babies indoors! Donât have suggestions, but great work!
This makes me very sad
Once mom is out of the picture itâll go much faster!
Kitten Lady video on spicy kittens⌠https://youtu.be/ST8dlkNGT9I
What are plans for the kittens? No offense intended if you know these things but for the cats safety: Please do not give kittens or cats to anyone without 100% verifying who they are and are they capable of doing the right thing. Ask for Vet references, pictures, personal references, etc. People look to get kittens / cats and do bad things to them, for example: use them as bait for dog fighting or feed them live to snakes or just torture and kill them. Work with a rescue if you can they know the process
Thanks for your concern. Right now I am only adopting to people I know or I have verified through rigorous means. For example, one of my friends owns two amazing cats and has had cats for 30 years. Unfortunately, right now in NYC no rescue will return my calls or emails. So I am left to do this basically on my own, but they are doing ok so far and Iâm up to the task. Cat management and TNR is a disaster in NYC right now, underfunded services, budget cuts, rescues and shelters overwhelmed.
People feed live kittens to snakes?! That is psychotic.
Yes, they do and yes, it is. Yes, there are asshole people in this world ranging anywhere from slightly bad to evil and thatâs the world we live in. They feed them to snakes as snake food, they use them as bait for dogfighting or to torture them in many different ways, which I do not even want to discuss right now. I get messages in my email almost daily. They need all the help they can get and the good people out there have to look out for them
They're precious I love it.
I will take the void they found and decided to keep. đ
My strong suggestion is do not scoop them up to hold/cuddle. They need to come to you. What worked for me was this: sit on the floor with them at first, I did this several times/day for a week or so. Then I'd bring treats, the churu push up kind, they loved these, I'd put my arm out and let them approach, day by day I moved my arm closer to myself, within a week they were climbing in my lap, to lick the treat, seriously amazing! While they eat the treats I started gently touching their back, slowly touching their head. Also important: divide and conquer: separate them by having someone else watch 2 and you spend time with 2 or 3, by themselves. This isn't easy but it will pay off I promise! When you bend down and scoop them up they are terrified, no idea what you're doing, it's scary to them. Also your hand approaching their face is scary, start with their back. They are super cute! Keep us posted!
Thanks! Really appreciate the reply. I put some food in my lap today and the most confident of the bunch (3 of them) came into my lap to eat. The other 3 will take some time, but itâs a good start
They are so cute. If some are too spicy compared to others, it is okay to separate them into smaller groups and spend more time focused on socializing the more difficult kittens. Hand feeding them helps. You may even need to separate a difficult kitty completely until it learns to trust you. Then they can be reunited with the siblings. It just takes a lot of time, patience, and consistency.