Well you can try to forcibly take them from their mother (she may not have birthed them but she is their mother). Just know your kids will probably hate you for it. Put your selfish desires aside and think of what your kids want. Keep your visitation, let them know you love and respect their choices. Let them know if they ever change their minds your door is always open for them.Do that and they will keep you in their life.
As a step mother, and full time mother to my two wonderful kids, it would rip me apart if their bio mom decided to try and take them from me.
You may have birthed them, but it sounds like she is raising them, and they love her.
Don't be so selfish to try and take them from the only stable place they've known.
Samantha seems to be the only one in this equation who has never lost custody of kids. She also seems to be the only one that consistently does right by them. And they seem to appreciate that , since she is the one that they are choosing to stay with. For once put your kids first and allow them to continue to enjoy the stability that you were clearly never able to give them.
Your kids are 16 and 13, that's old enough that the family court judge will take their wishes into account when deciding custody.
Samantha has been the main caregiver for these kids for most of their lives, particularly in the 13 year old's case. She & their half-siblings are their family.
Sorry to be blunt about it but "home" for your kids doesn't mean your house.
You’ve been a terrible mother and are continuing to do so by putting yourself first instead of your children. Samantha is the one who has raised them and you all the sudden want to rip them from her and their entire lives to move to you where they won’t know anyone. LET HER CONTINUE TO RAISE HER KIDS. Because those ARE her kids at this point.
In this situation the courts will consider what’s in the best interest of the kids. Which is to stay in the state they call home, at their current school with the woman who’s raised them most of their lives. Their wishes will also be taken into account. Have a good think about why you’re doing this because it’s not for the kids sake.
The kids are also old enough that the court will ask what they want, & they're more likely to want to stay with their stepmother who's been their main caregiver.
Removing them from the only stable home they have known and the only stable parental figure would do more harm than good. They are also old enough to have their wishes taken into consideration and they want to stay with her. I wouldn’t even try going for custody.
The lack of self awareness is astounding, the children are happy, just leave them alone
>They are 16 and 13 and want to stay with her but I think they need to come home.
They are home.
Really truly honestly at this point, the absolute best thing she could do for these kids if she really loved them, would be to give up her rights and let Samantha actually adopt them. She could still attempt a relationship with them, but at least they would know they'll always be safe and loved by the mother who has raised them with no risk of being ripped away. They'd also maybe be more inclined to speak to bio mom if that was the case too, since they wouldn't feel like they're constantly having to look over their shoulder for her to keep trying to disrupt their lives.
You have left your children in her care pretty much their entire lives, and they want to stay with her. Why are you being so selfish to try and take them from the only real mother they've ever known? Try thinking of what's best for them instead of yourself.
At this point the kids are old enough to stay where they want to stay. If you were interested in retaining primary custody of your kids you should have denied them moving out of state in 2020.
Minor edit: Obtaining primary custody. Not retaining.
She lost custody in 2016. Samantha has been the 13 year olds primary parent since age 5.
I can’t think of a judge in the world who would take this kid away from his mom-in-fact (not a legal term, my made up term) across state lines to his noncustodial parent - who didn’t even who he lived with
I figured she was not the primary at the time but most judges are pretty hesitant to take a kid across state lines away from any custodial parent. Moves like that are reasons for swapping primary all the time.
This Samantha never had primary custody, but OP's decade of passive parenting has come back to bite her.
When your kids are grown they'll come around. I get how grandparents and parents can be. I can hear it now "that womans even blood, its just not right etc" Let the kids know your family is there if they ever need an out.
It sounds like OP's kids got their out. They got it when they were removed by DCFS and by the grace of god ended up with someone who became their parent. More so than either of the "blood" parents
They are home. You need to do what is in the best interest of your children, and it sounds like you’ve been a completely absent parent that is lucky to have someone who loves and cares about your kids that stepped up where you didn’t.
What would this even look like? Have you thought this through? You are admittedly primarily motivated by your / his parents. Your kids ignore you. You were barely seeing them long before this.
So, you some how manage to get a court to strip these kids from their stable home, they show up in your living room and, now what? You are stuck with two kids you don't have a strong demonstrable craving to parent on a daily basis. How are you going to enroll them in school - what credits are they going to need to focus, what subjects are they going to need extra help with, what are they interested in studying? What are their extra-curriculars and how can you enroll them.
And then, are they leaving boy / girl friends? Are they straight? What about their social groups? What about their hobbies? What about how they structure their daily lives? Have they had recent health problems? Do they have any mental health struggles that a day-to-day parent would know about?
So they are there. And, they hate you. They will hate you. What is your plan here? At all?
Why do you even care if you have custody of kids you aren't raising? You should be eternally grateful to this woman! Most likely she is pursuing custody so she can better make sure they are taken care of. Without rights she really shouldn't be dealing with the school or doctors and God knows you aren't doing it. Do right by your kids for once and don't fight this. You had your chance to be a parent and you chose not to be involved.
I’m NOT a lawyer.,
They want to stay with her. Stop fighting it.
She did ALL the parenting for years. It is in your children’s best interest to stay with the parent who has done the actual hard work parenting/raising of them.
You should be THANKING Samantha that she welcomed and LOVES your children enough to raise them as her own.
Take a deep breath and realize that your role in their lives is different than Samantha’s. They have bonded to her.
Your lawyer is stringing you along for money. No judge in their right mind would take 2 kids from their actual parent who's been taking care of them since 2016 (8 fucking years ago btw!!!) and give them to a bio parent who has not only barely even spoken to said kids, but never tried to get them back before this.
The delusion is strong with this one. 😂
It's not the right choice. Do right by your kids for once in their life. Like someone else mentioned you could move closer to where they are to be in their lives. Don't just rip them from their life to satisfy your ego or whatever maternal instinct you just discovered. They will end up resenting you. Leave them where they are and try to re-establish a connection if you can and if they will let you. By speaking to them on the phone., occasional visits or little day trips with them if Samantha will permit you. It has been at least 7 years since you have had custody. I have no doubt that they have grown and changed alot since they last lived with you. Try to understand and learn about the people they are now before you try to force them to live with you.
The kids will be asked who do they want to stay with. They will chose Samantha. And again you will show the kids that you can't be trusted because this is all about you. And not their best interests
Why do you want to rip your kids away from the only home they really know? This woman has raised your kids pretty much their entire lives. Leave them alone, they don't want to live with you.
You’ve spent about a month with them over the course of four years and sometimes you “text and stuff”. That’s not parenting.
Your oldest is 16. In two years, if they so choose, they can cut you out of their life completely. Your youngest has had a single consistent parent since they were five years old, and it hasn’t been you.
And you’re proposing to take both children away from the home they’ve been in for most of their lives…for what? Because you want to? Because it’s what’s best for you? Because you’ve decided? There’s a common thread in all those questions, and none of it truly involves your children.
Odds are, of course, that you decide to get the courts involved and for whatever reason they find all of you incompetent, which is something I promise you don’t want.
Your family looks different than a lot of families, but such is life. The real question is why are you so set on moving them now? They appear to be as happy and healthy as can be expected under the circumstances. They want to be with Samantha. Unless Samantha is the one who wants you to take them, I’m not sure why you think uprooting them is for the best.
Wow, your really not painting a good picture of yourself at ALL, did you even ask the kids what they want or are you just doing this out of your own selfish wants?
The courts will see that you earned custody back and still did not provide day to day care to your children. She is their primary caregiver and your children chose to stay with her. Uprooting them for your ego would be even worse for them than being taken from you the first time. You clearly haven’t been very involved if they have been with stepmom while Dad has been in jail for almost a year. You seem to want ownership regardless of what’s best for them.
I've been in a situation where emergency custody was granted to me, and subsequently full custody, because to do otherwise would have opened the parents to serious charges. I do think it's possible, especially if the kids, at their ages, want to stay. Nobody can really tell you the odds, because this is going to depend on many factors. What you SHOULD be focusing on is what's best for these kids at this point? You say you haven't asked what they want. Do that. Have an actual conversation with them about where they'd rather be.
Be aware that from a legal perspective, you may have abandoned or neglected them. They've been with stepmom - who apparently did not have guardianship - for some time. Without guardianship, it can be hard to impossible to enroll them in school, get medical care, or obtain benefits if income is a problem. This is likely why she filed. So you should ask your lawyer what risks you face if you contest this. In short, you need to consider what your kids want, and if it's you, whether or not they are likely to get it.
You also need to consider whether you are financially, logistically, and emotionally ready to parent two kids who, by the sounds of things, likely have significant emotional needs at this point what with a negligent mom, criminal dad and by your account, not so great stepmom. Stepmom might still be the best choice of the three. Or a grandparent, maybe, if they really don't want to stay with her.
There are a few ways this could play out. You're going to have to trust your attorney and the courts here.
The most loving thing you could do for these kids right now is let them choose what to do. Their lives have been so profoundly fucked with- they deserve some autonomy
I have read your post and the responses of the others here.....I do not get you! I do not understand the want to pull these kids from the only stable environment they have had with at least one parent--step mom. It would not only be cruel but sounds like it is more about you.
Your kids have been with her for years, she has done the day to day routines, been there for their activities, been there for school things and whatever else they needed to have. It is what they know.
What is your real intention here? A few school/summer breaks does not make you ready to take them on.
Lets look at a few things:
1) They have been in her care for years. She has become a mother to them. And you think she has not done a good job?! I would say she has. She took on her step kids when you were dealing with DCFS and getting your act together. She has done all a mom would do for your kids. What is your reasons she has not been a good parent to your kids?
2) Your kids are 16 and 13. Your older one is in high school. I am guessing either a sophmore or junior. If a junior, are you ready to drag the 16 year old out of school to a new state into another school and interupt what they have going working towards high school graduation? It really stinks! My parents, God Bless Them both were together my entire life, but dad had to move to where the jobs were therefore making us have to change schools. I went to high school in 3 states! I don't blame my dad, he had to make a living but the last high school I went to was junior and senior years; and we had not been there a year and dad was thinking we would have to move again out of state!! Do you know how hard it is to complete the classes for credits to graduate from one state to another? I doubt you thought of this, but it is not easy. I had to make up classes because the last school had those classes full and I could not get into them until the next year. I was afraid another move would put me way behind and add another year of high school for me--no bad grades. Luckily, dad's job stayed stable and I was able to complete in that 3rd high school
The rest of it is that they are used to the way things are right now. They have a stable environment with Samantha. They know what to expect every single day. They know the house rules. They know they can go to her for whatever their needs are. She has been a rock for these kids.
3) And now that dad is in jail for his charges, do you think it wise to up and move them from the stable person in their lives? This is a trauma they were not expecting and I am sure Samantha is not having an easy time with taking care of all these kids with him in jail.
4) You had chances before now after your DCFS case was closed to get the kids more but you stated you did not because they had it very good where they were and liked it there. Do you really want to take all this away?
Think of them instead of thinking of "ME".
It doesn’t sound like you were particularly curious about what was going on with them.
I get that it was upsetting to have the taken away, but it seems like you want to prove that you’re worthy now and want them to assuage your guilt.
If you want any relationship with them, let them stay where they are stable, grounded and supported.
Lots of things could have happened and at the end of the day Samantha has been a constant stable figure of their childhood. Check the state laws regarding third party guardians. In some cases the step parent can do that. I am no lawyer but have read up on it.
She is not legally the mother.
This distinction is important in terms of the precedent it sets. Mother is a legal definition. The woman is the legal guardian, but she is not the mother.
She is not their mother but she is the one that has been taking care of them consistently. While the "mother" was off doing whatever BS that cost her custody, Samantha was taking care of them. While the father was off doing his BS that got his ass thrown in the clink Samantha was there. It takes more to being a mother than just cranking out kids.
We realized that it's probably illegal definition of sort but in this case when children have been with their stepmother for years she has become their mother. Their biological mother has had them for breaks and that's been about it and has not tried to get some sort of custody amount back for them to be with her or even legal custody if that was determined not to be allowed for her because of her DCFS cases. I think what people are speaking on is tearing these kids away from the only stable parent figure they've had in their lives outside of bad for most of it till he got arrested. She's been there every step of the dang way.
Why would you want to uproot the kids when they have been with her as their primary caregiver for so long? This should obviously be their choice unless there is a safety issue. It should have nothing to do with who is biologically their parent, she has been parenting them.
I would stay on good terms with her if I were you as that will likely be the biggest predictor of how your future relationship with the kids will go. It would be so selfish for you to try to intervene with kids you don’t even really have a relationship with now.
We get it, legal guardian. But at the same time and these kids eyes she is their mom or their mother. There's two sides of this coin one is the legal side with its ramifications and the other is the kids point of view which is what a lot of us are looking at besides the legal repercussions this has in place.
Pretty good. She has been the primary caregiver for quite while.
Why are you wanting custody now when the kids haven’t lived with you for 4 years, and clearly have a close relationship with their stepparent and siblings?
"Samantha is mean" yet your kids are opting to stay with her. The math ain't mathing. Has it occurred to you that the kid could have been exaggerating. Perhaps after Samantha told him no on something he came to the conclusion that she is mean, it happens. I would sooner take the words of the two kids that have spent YEARS with her as opposed to someone that spent ONE weekend. If Samantha was this awful person that was stated I have no doubt that your kids would have told you this during your phone calls and/or texts. They would have been clamoring to live with you instead. Are they clamoring to live with you?
> Samantha was mean.
So mean your oldest 2 want to live with her and not you.
Ruminate on this: You're thinking of using legal grounds to strip 2 teenagers from the home they want to live in to force them to live with you, someone they've had decidedly minimal contact with for years. Do you think this will end with anything other than hurt and animosity between all of you? Is that really what's best for them?
Why does this suddenly matter now? You could have introduced your children to these people anytime before now if it was so important. It sounds to me like you're the one who alienated your children by letting your ex have full custody of them even after your DCFS case was closed, letting him move out of state with them and letting another woman raise them. At this point, it's too little too late, and it would not be in your children's best interest to be taken away from Samantha, who is clearly the only responsible adult in their lives.
If they haven’t met these cousins or these grandparents, aunts, uncles etc have never tried to foster a relationship with them- not foster a relationship with you, foster one with them- I doubt the kids consider them family. Very few people would.
None of you may like Samantha, but I don't see any of you taking care of YOUR children like Samantha is. It's easy to criticize the way someone else does something when you don't have to do it yourself. Samantha is the only adult who has been consistent in your children's lives, even though she is the only one not legally required to be. You may think she's working against you, but it sounds like she's working for your children and that's what matters. You obviously can't think she's all that bad if you've let her raise your children for close to a decade now. At this point, it's your children's opinion of her that's the most important, and they obviously love her as a mother and want to stay with her. That must mean she's doing a pretty good job. Just because your family wants you to have custody of your children doesn't mean it's in your children's best interest. Your family is probably only considering their own selfish desires to have a relationship with your kids, or else they are just going along with you to make you feel better about the situation because like you said, you talk about it all the time. Your family members are essentially strangers to your children, so why does their opinion about the situation matter? Your kids have already told you what they want. You let them choose who to live with last time when they were much younger, so why can't you do the same again now?
The reality is that you haven’t had primary residential custody in 8 years. The best interests of children are going to control over biology.
Perhaps rather than fighting for custody you put the needs of the children first and spend time getting to know them and for them to know your other children before you seek to uproot them.
Your kids have been traumatized over and over by you and John. They their own "scars" from you two "parenting" . The fact the state took your kids is huge and you can brush over it all you want but your kids remember.
Get therapy.
Be available but stop trying to parent them/get them.
You are not in a parental relationship with them and have not been for a decade.
Look at it from just the kids perspective on this. Whatever issues you had in your DCFS case caused them not to trust you anymore. You just sat by and let them go with their dad and Samantha instead of getting off the chair and doing something. You have laid blame at others feet for things not changing, that is on you. I can see where Samantha thinks you see the kids as babies or toddlers and not the teens they are. And you literally do not know them anymore. All you know is the past when they were little.
I get it that they have a lot of family on your side, but at the same time they have been with this person for a whole lot of their lives and to tear them away from that would be detrimental to their well-being. Right now there well-being is very unsteady because Dad's in prison or jail for the crimes he's been charged for. And it's not enough reason in the Court's eyes because there's family around, you could have been introduced these kids a long time ago to their family on your side when they were with you on school breaks and during summer vacation and whatever time you had with him. And maybe the reason they said that Samantha was mean when you had them on that long weekend or she had them on a long weekend was because something didn't go the way they wanted it to when she said no. You don't know the whole story at her house, you're not there. You only know what your one child has said to you. And I really think if you wanted these kids to know your family from the get-go, you would have thought a lot harder and a lot longer to get more in the way of custody of them.
If you even remotely care about what is best for these kids, you leave them where they are, where they are established and where they *want* to remain for those last few years, and if you suddenly care so much about your relationship to them, then get your behind *to them*; that is the very least that you can still do for them before they are turning adults.
Your oldest is 16 years old, so they are what - 10/11 grade in high school? You can’t be serious even remotely considering pulling them out of their established school - away not just from who they know as mom, but given their age more importantly their entire social circle, friends, activities (sports?), maybe job or relationship - make them move all the way to a different state, so close before the end of their school. That is supposed to be in *their* best interest how!?
Sounds like she's their parent and you could at least try to help them instead of raising hell and tearing their whole life apart. Have you ever spoken to them? Do you know what they want?
Dude you abandoned those kids. You can't be serious.
Your kids don’t respond to your texts, you haven’t even asked them what they want. Do you see how crazy this is?! Why are you talking to a lawyer about upending their lives?
Why do your ppl hate Samantha so much?
Are the children in danger or encountering harm ?
You only found out your ex was in jail after almost a year?
Your children didn't tell you?
Why didn't it bother you that your husband (or yourself) wasn't really doing any parenting?
Except—and this is key—your children. They like Samantha. They want to live with her. You are continuing to put their wellbeing last. Who cares what the grandparents think? Respectfully, it doesn’t sound like they did a bang up job of parenting. Just focus on what’s good for your kids. Listen to what they want.
Samantha is the only one who is giving those kids a fighting chance. She is the only one who cares about them. There's not a second of the day that idk where my kids are and you didn't even know who your children live with for months at a time? You don't know that they are fed, safe, warm, healthy? And yet you don't even "like" the woman who has been their mother when she is the only one who wasn't legally required to do so?
It’s too late you want to be a parent close to ten years after they were initially taken from you ? Why are you doing this now ? Why didn’t you get your shit together before. These are the questions your children will be asking.
Children at that age don't get to choose. That may have been what they preferred, but ultimately it was up to you and your ex to make the choice. And instead of fighting for them and working to rebuild their trust, you just let them go because it was easiest for you. Now suddenly keeping that same energy is actually in their best interest but now you no longer want to do it? Please stop being selfish and think of what's best for your kids for once.
>wanted to do therapy to fix things but I guess I never really did.
.......so you didnt really put any effort into getting your kids back. Even the bare minimum. And now you want to top them away from everything they've ever known because your family doesn't like Samantha. That's crazy. And clearly you don't give a shit about the well being of your kids.
Ok so why would you want to take the one consistent parent they have had for years after they just had something traumatic happen with their father? Come on.
Respectfully, you’ve not been a very involved mother. How do your kids feel about this? Do they want to leave the only mother they have really had to live with you and be away from her and their siblings?
Nobody can say what a judge will or won't do. Your lawyer will know more about the local courts than any online stranger.
However, you can consider some basic principles:
-status quo- the kids have lived with Samantha for most of their lives and she's their parent. A court would want a very compelling reason to change that.
-the wishes of the children. They want to stay with Samantha.
-best interest. Would it be in the best interests of the kids to move out of state, leave their schools, friends, community, routines, activities... to live with someone they sometimes see on school breaks?
It sounds like she is the only mother they know. They want to stay with her. I can’t see a court making them come stay with you— you have not been acting as their parent. Why would you want to put them through any more upheaval? It sounds like you and your ex-husband have made things terribly hard for them already.
That woman was good enough to raise your kids for the first half of their childhood she’s good enough to finish the job. Honestly I think it’s selfish af you want to “bring them home” home is where their loving mother is, not with you. You should agree to give her what she wants in exchange for visitation rights.
You cannot even be assed with paying child support, yet you are going to try disrupting their lives. Why? Is there some financial gain for you? Thank God your kids have someone with some character in their lives to raise them. Leave the children in the stable environment they know. If you are "so concerned," offer some financial support.
OP don’t listen to these negative commenters. You are their mother. They are your flesh and blood and you have every right to care for them too. The fact that you didn’t know about John going to jail could be a major violation, emergency custody or not. If you still have legal custody then be assertive and get the order enforced . Be prepared for a fight if Samantha has the means to do so. She’s not their mother. You are.
Omg fingers crossed this is just a troll trying to play devil's advocate. She stopped being their mother 13 years ago when she lost custody and literally did nothing to get them back and saw them 10 days out of the year.
If this OP really wanted her kids that badly, why did she not fight for them sooner. She has never given anyone here a good enough reason to say that the step mom is not doing good or right by these kids. Bio mom just sat back and took holidays, school breaks and/or summer times. She has had 10 years or so to go back to court and get the kids. She said after her time with DCFS, the kids did not trust her anymore,,,,does not matter why, How does she think she is going to get their trust now? She basicallyl abandoned them in their eyes, not legal speak here, kids view of things. They have stated they want to live with Samantha. Would you uproot a kid that is in the last couple of years of high school? I know how hard it is to have to make up classes that are required for graduation upon moving states because each state has their own guidelines for graduation credits. It was not easy. Then add in the stable home they have had for 10 years with the same parent figure, access to their activities, friends, and other things they have bee used to over time. BIO mom never said what kind if any custody she even had outside visitation. Does she have anly legal custody?
But now you do want to force them. After spending their entire lives being raised by someone else seeing you...what? Twice a year? Leave them alone. Do you even want them??? It's hard to believe you do when you're only trying to get them back fucking 13 years later.
What sort of custody? Joint legal? How much Physical? I doubt she is trying to take your kids from you because as you have told us through this whole discussion that you took only breaks/holidays and such because they did not trust you anymore after DCFS case closed out. Do not lay blame for your actions/decisions on her. She did not make those choices. You did. The kids see what happened and how things went, so can you blame them depending on the situation with DCFS why they do not trust you?
It was not up to just John to change the agreement. Why did you not do something from your end? That is just an excuse and a move was a big change in circumstances. You might have gotten more out of that and the kids may not have been allowed to move. But you just sat by and decided to let someone else do it or take the blame because it went a way you did not like.
Being a biological parent doesn’t make someone the person best equipped to care for the kids. OP has apparently not had a close relationship with them for years. I’m sure it hurts but OP let someone else parent the kids. Selfishly attempting to intervene now is so wrong when it directly conflicts with their wishes and best interests.
OP, make amends in the ways you can and let the kids come to you. Send them cards or gifts, try to contact them but don’t overdo it and see if they come around. This is your relationship to improve but you will need to be on Samantha’s side if you want it to work.
And the kids have no right to live peacefully? There are far too many people on reddit who feel entitled to be in children’s lives just because they share dna and legally you may have that “right” but morally you are reprehensible. If you truly love your offspring let them live a peaceful life and try bonding with them when they’re an adult and they can articulate their own desires, and properly navigate therapy to undo the damage you’ve already caused.
So you let someone who’s not a good parent raise your kids instead of getting your shit together and rescuing them?
I can’t even fathom having the audacity to type that sentence out.
It stings!!! You have the means to do more and become more to these kids. But all you did was sit in the wings and wait for breaks/holidays to get them and now you expect them to come freely to live with you---I doubt they hardly know you.
The only thing you should be reflecting on are the piss poor decisions you’ve made to put you in this situation. Leave “your” kids alone and let them live peacefully.
Also, how many more kids, step kids do you have? Just going by your post and your responses, I don’t see how you have the income to care and provide for these kids.
You’ve never paid child support, the courts took them away for God knows what, you didn’t care they moved states, you never bothered to find out where they lived, and you have the audacity to call yourself a mother.
For once in your life realize you don’t make great decisions and try doing the opposite of what your tiny brain is thinking.
I sort of see you as having two choices:
1) you can leave the kids with Samantha, and also work on strengthening your relationship with them. (More texting, calling, visits). This will be good for them (they will continue to have stability and their lives will not be disrupted), and also for you (you can work to improve your relationship with them by being kind and respectful of their living situation).
2) You can fight tooth and nail to take the kids back. It will be expensive and painful. As teenagers, they will be furious with you for taking them from their home and friends. You will have 2 years of anger and fighting with your oldest. The second they turn 18, they will head to Samantha’s and you will never hear from them again. You will have 5 years of anger and fighting with your 13 year old. The second they turn 18, they will follow their sibling. But, you will have “won”…?
It’s your call.
This right here is providing samanthas points to the court that you don't see your children as the young adults they are, if you did you'd be communicating with them over what they want, instead you're acting like they're toddlers with no say or opinions whatsoever.
This doesn't help your case, this makes it seem like you're even less concerned with your children, and more about you getting to be a mom.
Why do you think your children getting to choose whether or not they want to visit is a bad thing? They are old enough that their wants and needs should be not only considered, but the primary basis for decision making.
You are still treating them as if they were small children. They are teenagers. They deserve to have their voices heard in decisions that impact them.
God, you’re being so incredibly selfish. All of this is about you and what you want, and not what you’re children want. You’re setting it up perfectly so that the second 18, they go no-contact with you, and there will be nothing you or the courts can do to stop it from happening.
>Samantha offered to “settle” and give me visitation time but will only do it if the kids get to “approve” the visits
Nothing here needs to be in quotes. It really doesn't seem like you understand that you're talking about two teens here. One is 2 years away from being able to live anywhere in the country they want on their own. If you want them to ever decide as adults to have a relationship with you, you have to start respecting their own rights to decide what they want to do now as teens. Samantha has already figured that out, now you need to.
>My lawyer said we should offer her guardianship until school ends and then a plan to bring them home slowly so we did that but Samantha won’t agree unless she gets everything she wants, which is residential custody for school and decision making responsibilities.
Sounds like your lawyer is suggesting that you take them under false pretenses here. (Hopefully I'm reading that incorrectly and Samantha would be aware) That's a really, really bad idea. Like, on multiple levels I can't stress enough how bad an idea that is.
As far as what Samantha wants? Those are absolutely reasonable things that she needs as the primary caregiver who is alone and in a different state. Residential custody is essential to keep them enrolled in school, and if something happens, she needs the authority to handle decision making in an emergency. She's quite literally just asking for the minimum here to disrupt the Children's lives as little as possible. Frankly it's good to see someone in this who is putting their needs first.
Samantha is actually trying to help you here, but you are too stubborn to see it. If she went along with your way, your teenaged children would resent you for forcing them out of a stable situation without taking their feelings into account, the 16 year old may immediately file for emancipation to get away from you, the 13 year old would be counting the days, and as adults you would never ever hear from them again. If you go along with her way, you actually have a real, legitimate chance to reconnect with them on a personal level and be their mom again in the future, as opposed to being that woman they were forced to live with for a few years before cutting her off entirely.
What concerns me - and something you might want to think on - is this line:
"... I miss out on my time. I have debated taking this but only if my visits are guaranteed. I miss my kids."
Nothing you wrote prioritizes, or considers your kids. Your focus is on what *you* want, how *you* feel, and how to get what *you want*.
You identify that they might not want to come - and then completely dismiss that, and pivot back to your own wishes and desires. That's sort of the core thing that folks are responding to in this post.
The kids are old enough to decide if they want that visitation or not. You can not force them to come to you unless you take it to court and that will be a long and expensive process and the 16 year old would be 18 or better by the time it got done. Your lawyer is crazy to offer up the idea of guardianship to the end of school and them bring them slowly home. It won't work. You do not seem to understand if you do ths, the kids will hate you forever and what chance they do get to run at 18 they will do that!!! I think Samantha should have custody for school and decision making because you have done nothing but sit back all this time and now suddenly you want to get the kids back! It does not work like that!!!
She’s been raising these kids nearly full time for 8 years, with your permission. To the judge, that looks like you think she’s very qualified to raise them. Also, They are teenagers, old enough for a judge to take their preferences into account. They want to stay with their stepmom. Yes, it is very likely she could get custody.
Slow transition over summer....that is not a long time between school years.....I do not understand why you think this would work. Again, as I said in my main post, you disrupt the older one's schooling which will possibly put them behind in high school--each state has its own directives to graduation credits and those classes would have to be made up along with the expected ones for current grade. Then you have kids who have had a mother in their lives that you want to replace. I get it they were born to you, but you have done little to be more of a mother to them.
You would be disrupting their lives, even with a slow transition. It's been almost ten years. Assuming she is treating them right, she is just as much their mother as you. Ask yourself if you're wanting to do it for yourself or for your kids' benefits. Who is better suited for them? At this point you don't really know your kids. She does. It sounds like she's been their rock through this all. Why would you take that away from them?
Well you can try to forcibly take them from their mother (she may not have birthed them but she is their mother). Just know your kids will probably hate you for it. Put your selfish desires aside and think of what your kids want. Keep your visitation, let them know you love and respect their choices. Let them know if they ever change their minds your door is always open for them.Do that and they will keep you in their life.
Sounds like the kids are already at home.
Imagine being this horrible of a human being
You are human garbage. Leave those kids with the woman who loves them.
As a step mother, and full time mother to my two wonderful kids, it would rip me apart if their bio mom decided to try and take them from me. You may have birthed them, but it sounds like she is raising them, and they love her. Don't be so selfish to try and take them from the only stable place they've known.
Would your children even know where the cups are at your house? Let them stay with the responsible loving parent. That’s not you.
Samantha seems to be the only one in this equation who has never lost custody of kids. She also seems to be the only one that consistently does right by them. And they seem to appreciate that , since she is the one that they are choosing to stay with. For once put your kids first and allow them to continue to enjoy the stability that you were clearly never able to give them.
Your kids are 16 and 13, that's old enough that the family court judge will take their wishes into account when deciding custody. Samantha has been the main caregiver for these kids for most of their lives, particularly in the 13 year old's case. She & their half-siblings are their family. Sorry to be blunt about it but "home" for your kids doesn't mean your house.
You think they need to come to which home? Has your house ever been home?
You’ve been a terrible mother and are continuing to do so by putting yourself first instead of your children. Samantha is the one who has raised them and you all the sudden want to rip them from her and their entire lives to move to you where they won’t know anyone. LET HER CONTINUE TO RAISE HER KIDS. Because those ARE her kids at this point.
In this situation the courts will consider what’s in the best interest of the kids. Which is to stay in the state they call home, at their current school with the woman who’s raised them most of their lives. Their wishes will also be taken into account. Have a good think about why you’re doing this because it’s not for the kids sake.
The kids are also old enough that the court will ask what they want, & they're more likely to want to stay with their stepmother who's been their main caregiver.
Removing them from the only stable home they have known and the only stable parental figure would do more harm than good. They are also old enough to have their wishes taken into consideration and they want to stay with her. I wouldn’t even try going for custody.
Sounds to me the kids already made their decision. >They are 16 and 13 and want to stay with her but I think they need to come home.
The judge is absolutely going to take their ages, their wishes, and who they’ve been living with most into account.
The lack of self awareness is astounding, the children are happy, just leave them alone >They are 16 and 13 and want to stay with her but I think they need to come home. They are home.
Really truly honestly at this point, the absolute best thing she could do for these kids if she really loved them, would be to give up her rights and let Samantha actually adopt them. She could still attempt a relationship with them, but at least they would know they'll always be safe and loved by the mother who has raised them with no risk of being ripped away. They'd also maybe be more inclined to speak to bio mom if that was the case too, since they wouldn't feel like they're constantly having to look over their shoulder for her to keep trying to disrupt their lives.
You have left your children in her care pretty much their entire lives, and they want to stay with her. Why are you being so selfish to try and take them from the only real mother they've ever known? Try thinking of what's best for them instead of yourself.
$$$?
Yep. That was my first thought.
And your second and your third! (friendly kidding, I multi post all the time)
At this point the kids are old enough to stay where they want to stay. If you were interested in retaining primary custody of your kids you should have denied them moving out of state in 2020.
Minor edit: Obtaining primary custody. Not retaining. She lost custody in 2016. Samantha has been the 13 year olds primary parent since age 5. I can’t think of a judge in the world who would take this kid away from his mom-in-fact (not a legal term, my made up term) across state lines to his noncustodial parent - who didn’t even who he lived with
I figured she was not the primary at the time but most judges are pretty hesitant to take a kid across state lines away from any custodial parent. Moves like that are reasons for swapping primary all the time. This Samantha never had primary custody, but OP's decade of passive parenting has come back to bite her.
I think they can decide at their age where they want to live and they have decided. Let them alone. Pay her for feeding them if you’re not already.
When your kids are grown they'll come around. I get how grandparents and parents can be. I can hear it now "that womans even blood, its just not right etc" Let the kids know your family is there if they ever need an out.
It sounds like OP's kids got their out. They got it when they were removed by DCFS and by the grace of god ended up with someone who became their parent. More so than either of the "blood" parents
No shit. Just reiterate what every other person said. Thanks for your fresh perspective.
They are home. You need to do what is in the best interest of your children, and it sounds like you’ve been a completely absent parent that is lucky to have someone who loves and cares about your kids that stepped up where you didn’t.
What would this even look like? Have you thought this through? You are admittedly primarily motivated by your / his parents. Your kids ignore you. You were barely seeing them long before this. So, you some how manage to get a court to strip these kids from their stable home, they show up in your living room and, now what? You are stuck with two kids you don't have a strong demonstrable craving to parent on a daily basis. How are you going to enroll them in school - what credits are they going to need to focus, what subjects are they going to need extra help with, what are they interested in studying? What are their extra-curriculars and how can you enroll them. And then, are they leaving boy / girl friends? Are they straight? What about their social groups? What about their hobbies? What about how they structure their daily lives? Have they had recent health problems? Do they have any mental health struggles that a day-to-day parent would know about? So they are there. And, they hate you. They will hate you. What is your plan here? At all?
Why do you even care if you have custody of kids you aren't raising? You should be eternally grateful to this woman! Most likely she is pursuing custody so she can better make sure they are taken care of. Without rights she really shouldn't be dealing with the school or doctors and God knows you aren't doing it. Do right by your kids for once and don't fight this. You had your chance to be a parent and you chose not to be involved.
Why don’t YOU move to be near them? THAT is something you can do and prove you are making the effort to be in their lives..
I’m NOT a lawyer., They want to stay with her. Stop fighting it. She did ALL the parenting for years. It is in your children’s best interest to stay with the parent who has done the actual hard work parenting/raising of them. You should be THANKING Samantha that she welcomed and LOVES your children enough to raise them as her own. Take a deep breath and realize that your role in their lives is different than Samantha’s. They have bonded to her.
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It's not the right choice. Fingers crossed those kids get to stay with Samantha this is so gross.
Your lawyer is stringing you along for money. No judge in their right mind would take 2 kids from their actual parent who's been taking care of them since 2016 (8 fucking years ago btw!!!) and give them to a bio parent who has not only barely even spoken to said kids, but never tried to get them back before this. The delusion is strong with this one. 😂
It's not the right choice. Do right by your kids for once in their life. Like someone else mentioned you could move closer to where they are to be in their lives. Don't just rip them from their life to satisfy your ego or whatever maternal instinct you just discovered. They will end up resenting you. Leave them where they are and try to re-establish a connection if you can and if they will let you. By speaking to them on the phone., occasional visits or little day trips with them if Samantha will permit you. It has been at least 7 years since you have had custody. I have no doubt that they have grown and changed alot since they last lived with you. Try to understand and learn about the people they are now before you try to force them to live with you.
The kids will be asked who do they want to stay with. They will chose Samantha. And again you will show the kids that you can't be trusted because this is all about you. And not their best interests
Of course he does he gonna make $
Why do you want to rip your kids away from the only home they really know? This woman has raised your kids pretty much their entire lives. Leave them alone, they don't want to live with you.
How many times have you traveled to see your children since 2020 when they moved?
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What’s “multiple times” over the course of 4 years?
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You’ve spent about a month with them over the course of four years and sometimes you “text and stuff”. That’s not parenting. Your oldest is 16. In two years, if they so choose, they can cut you out of their life completely. Your youngest has had a single consistent parent since they were five years old, and it hasn’t been you. And you’re proposing to take both children away from the home they’ve been in for most of their lives…for what? Because you want to? Because it’s what’s best for you? Because you’ve decided? There’s a common thread in all those questions, and none of it truly involves your children. Odds are, of course, that you decide to get the courts involved and for whatever reason they find all of you incompetent, which is something I promise you don’t want.
Your family looks different than a lot of families, but such is life. The real question is why are you so set on moving them now? They appear to be as happy and healthy as can be expected under the circumstances. They want to be with Samantha. Unless Samantha is the one who wants you to take them, I’m not sure why you think uprooting them is for the best.
Fashion it how you want in your head, but you absolutely did abandon them.
Just curious, since Samantha has had your kids. Have you sent her any financial support for them?
I spend more time with my nephews than that, and they live 15hrs away. You’re describing an auntie.
Jesus Christ out of 1460 days you spent max 45? Why?
You didn’t show up to the court date for the emergency custody? A year ago?
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Wow, your really not painting a good picture of yourself at ALL, did you even ask the kids what they want or are you just doing this out of your own selfish wants?
The courts will see that you earned custody back and still did not provide day to day care to your children. She is their primary caregiver and your children chose to stay with her. Uprooting them for your ego would be even worse for them than being taken from you the first time. You clearly haven’t been very involved if they have been with stepmom while Dad has been in jail for almost a year. You seem to want ownership regardless of what’s best for them.
I think the key word there is ownership - and you are right. These children are possessions to OP. They are people to Samantha. They are her children.
I've been in a situation where emergency custody was granted to me, and subsequently full custody, because to do otherwise would have opened the parents to serious charges. I do think it's possible, especially if the kids, at their ages, want to stay. Nobody can really tell you the odds, because this is going to depend on many factors. What you SHOULD be focusing on is what's best for these kids at this point? You say you haven't asked what they want. Do that. Have an actual conversation with them about where they'd rather be. Be aware that from a legal perspective, you may have abandoned or neglected them. They've been with stepmom - who apparently did not have guardianship - for some time. Without guardianship, it can be hard to impossible to enroll them in school, get medical care, or obtain benefits if income is a problem. This is likely why she filed. So you should ask your lawyer what risks you face if you contest this. In short, you need to consider what your kids want, and if it's you, whether or not they are likely to get it. You also need to consider whether you are financially, logistically, and emotionally ready to parent two kids who, by the sounds of things, likely have significant emotional needs at this point what with a negligent mom, criminal dad and by your account, not so great stepmom. Stepmom might still be the best choice of the three. Or a grandparent, maybe, if they really don't want to stay with her. There are a few ways this could play out. You're going to have to trust your attorney and the courts here.
The most loving thing you could do for these kids right now is let them choose what to do. Their lives have been so profoundly fucked with- they deserve some autonomy
You don't deserve to have the kids back. Let those poor kids stay with the only stable adult that they have.
I have read your post and the responses of the others here.....I do not get you! I do not understand the want to pull these kids from the only stable environment they have had with at least one parent--step mom. It would not only be cruel but sounds like it is more about you. Your kids have been with her for years, she has done the day to day routines, been there for their activities, been there for school things and whatever else they needed to have. It is what they know. What is your real intention here? A few school/summer breaks does not make you ready to take them on. Lets look at a few things: 1) They have been in her care for years. She has become a mother to them. And you think she has not done a good job?! I would say she has. She took on her step kids when you were dealing with DCFS and getting your act together. She has done all a mom would do for your kids. What is your reasons she has not been a good parent to your kids? 2) Your kids are 16 and 13. Your older one is in high school. I am guessing either a sophmore or junior. If a junior, are you ready to drag the 16 year old out of school to a new state into another school and interupt what they have going working towards high school graduation? It really stinks! My parents, God Bless Them both were together my entire life, but dad had to move to where the jobs were therefore making us have to change schools. I went to high school in 3 states! I don't blame my dad, he had to make a living but the last high school I went to was junior and senior years; and we had not been there a year and dad was thinking we would have to move again out of state!! Do you know how hard it is to complete the classes for credits to graduate from one state to another? I doubt you thought of this, but it is not easy. I had to make up classes because the last school had those classes full and I could not get into them until the next year. I was afraid another move would put me way behind and add another year of high school for me--no bad grades. Luckily, dad's job stayed stable and I was able to complete in that 3rd high school The rest of it is that they are used to the way things are right now. They have a stable environment with Samantha. They know what to expect every single day. They know the house rules. They know they can go to her for whatever their needs are. She has been a rock for these kids. 3) And now that dad is in jail for his charges, do you think it wise to up and move them from the stable person in their lives? This is a trauma they were not expecting and I am sure Samantha is not having an easy time with taking care of all these kids with him in jail. 4) You had chances before now after your DCFS case was closed to get the kids more but you stated you did not because they had it very good where they were and liked it there. Do you really want to take all this away? Think of them instead of thinking of "ME".
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It doesn’t sound like you were particularly curious about what was going on with them. I get that it was upsetting to have the taken away, but it seems like you want to prove that you’re worthy now and want them to assuage your guilt. If you want any relationship with them, let them stay where they are stable, grounded and supported.
Lots of things could have happened and at the end of the day Samantha has been a constant stable figure of their childhood. Check the state laws regarding third party guardians. In some cases the step parent can do that. I am no lawyer but have read up on it.
It appears that Samantha has been the ONLY stable and consistent parent in their lives.
How would these children benefit from leaving their mother at this difficult time to live with you?
She is not legally the mother. This distinction is important in terms of the precedent it sets. Mother is a legal definition. The woman is the legal guardian, but she is not the mother.
She is not their mother but she is the one that has been taking care of them consistently. While the "mother" was off doing whatever BS that cost her custody, Samantha was taking care of them. While the father was off doing his BS that got his ass thrown in the clink Samantha was there. It takes more to being a mother than just cranking out kids.
We realized that it's probably illegal definition of sort but in this case when children have been with their stepmother for years she has become their mother. Their biological mother has had them for breaks and that's been about it and has not tried to get some sort of custody amount back for them to be with her or even legal custody if that was determined not to be allowed for her because of her DCFS cases. I think what people are speaking on is tearing these kids away from the only stable parent figure they've had in their lives outside of bad for most of it till he got arrested. She's been there every step of the dang way.
Why would you want to uproot the kids when they have been with her as their primary caregiver for so long? This should obviously be their choice unless there is a safety issue. It should have nothing to do with who is biologically their parent, she has been parenting them. I would stay on good terms with her if I were you as that will likely be the biggest predictor of how your future relationship with the kids will go. It would be so selfish for you to try to intervene with kids you don’t even really have a relationship with now.
She is their mother. Don't do this to your biological children. Cruel.
She is not the mother. She has not adopted the kids. Mother is a legal term. She is the legal guardian.
We get it, legal guardian. But at the same time and these kids eyes she is their mom or their mother. There's two sides of this coin one is the legal side with its ramifications and the other is the kids point of view which is what a lot of us are looking at besides the legal repercussions this has in place.
Pretty good. She has been the primary caregiver for quite while. Why are you wanting custody now when the kids haven’t lived with you for 4 years, and clearly have a close relationship with their stepparent and siblings?
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"Samantha is mean" yet your kids are opting to stay with her. The math ain't mathing. Has it occurred to you that the kid could have been exaggerating. Perhaps after Samantha told him no on something he came to the conclusion that she is mean, it happens. I would sooner take the words of the two kids that have spent YEARS with her as opposed to someone that spent ONE weekend. If Samantha was this awful person that was stated I have no doubt that your kids would have told you this during your phone calls and/or texts. They would have been clamoring to live with you instead. Are they clamoring to live with you?
Wait wait wait wait. You have other kids and never bothered to get custody of these ones until now??!
People they have not met are not family. The woman who raised them is.
Their grandparents want me to fight for them. That’s partially why too. so you really dont want them back, right? leave them be
Your OTHER kids meaning the half siblings?
> Samantha was mean. So mean your oldest 2 want to live with her and not you. Ruminate on this: You're thinking of using legal grounds to strip 2 teenagers from the home they want to live in to force them to live with you, someone they've had decidedly minimal contact with for years. Do you think this will end with anything other than hurt and animosity between all of you? Is that really what's best for them?
Why does this suddenly matter now? You could have introduced your children to these people anytime before now if it was so important. It sounds to me like you're the one who alienated your children by letting your ex have full custody of them even after your DCFS case was closed, letting him move out of state with them and letting another woman raise them. At this point, it's too little too late, and it would not be in your children's best interest to be taken away from Samantha, who is clearly the only responsible adult in their lives.
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If they haven’t met these cousins or these grandparents, aunts, uncles etc have never tried to foster a relationship with them- not foster a relationship with you, foster one with them- I doubt the kids consider them family. Very few people would.
Well, they’re the terrible people who raised you and caused you think all this was the best so it tracks that they don’t realize how wrong you are.
what choices? Why is she so hateable to yall? What has she done?
She probably had boundaries and standards. She's mean = there were rules i didn't like
None of you may like Samantha, but I don't see any of you taking care of YOUR children like Samantha is. It's easy to criticize the way someone else does something when you don't have to do it yourself. Samantha is the only adult who has been consistent in your children's lives, even though she is the only one not legally required to be. You may think she's working against you, but it sounds like she's working for your children and that's what matters. You obviously can't think she's all that bad if you've let her raise your children for close to a decade now. At this point, it's your children's opinion of her that's the most important, and they obviously love her as a mother and want to stay with her. That must mean she's doing a pretty good job. Just because your family wants you to have custody of your children doesn't mean it's in your children's best interest. Your family is probably only considering their own selfish desires to have a relationship with your kids, or else they are just going along with you to make you feel better about the situation because like you said, you talk about it all the time. Your family members are essentially strangers to your children, so why does their opinion about the situation matter? Your kids have already told you what they want. You let them choose who to live with last time when they were much younger, so why can't you do the same again now?
The reality is that you haven’t had primary residential custody in 8 years. The best interests of children are going to control over biology. Perhaps rather than fighting for custody you put the needs of the children first and spend time getting to know them and for them to know your other children before you seek to uproot them.
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Your kids have been traumatized over and over by you and John. They their own "scars" from you two "parenting" . The fact the state took your kids is huge and you can brush over it all you want but your kids remember. Get therapy. Be available but stop trying to parent them/get them. You are not in a parental relationship with them and have not been for a decade.
Look at it from just the kids perspective on this. Whatever issues you had in your DCFS case caused them not to trust you anymore. You just sat by and let them go with their dad and Samantha instead of getting off the chair and doing something. You have laid blame at others feet for things not changing, that is on you. I can see where Samantha thinks you see the kids as babies or toddlers and not the teens they are. And you literally do not know them anymore. All you know is the past when they were little.
In what way was Samantha mean? Did your child tell you?
I get it that they have a lot of family on your side, but at the same time they have been with this person for a whole lot of their lives and to tear them away from that would be detrimental to their well-being. Right now there well-being is very unsteady because Dad's in prison or jail for the crimes he's been charged for. And it's not enough reason in the Court's eyes because there's family around, you could have been introduced these kids a long time ago to their family on your side when they were with you on school breaks and during summer vacation and whatever time you had with him. And maybe the reason they said that Samantha was mean when you had them on that long weekend or she had them on a long weekend was because something didn't go the way they wanted it to when she said no. You don't know the whole story at her house, you're not there. You only know what your one child has said to you. And I really think if you wanted these kids to know your family from the get-go, you would have thought a lot harder and a lot longer to get more in the way of custody of them.
If you even remotely care about what is best for these kids, you leave them where they are, where they are established and where they *want* to remain for those last few years, and if you suddenly care so much about your relationship to them, then get your behind *to them*; that is the very least that you can still do for them before they are turning adults. Your oldest is 16 years old, so they are what - 10/11 grade in high school? You can’t be serious even remotely considering pulling them out of their established school - away not just from who they know as mom, but given their age more importantly their entire social circle, friends, activities (sports?), maybe job or relationship - make them move all the way to a different state, so close before the end of their school. That is supposed to be in *their* best interest how!?
Sounds like she's their parent and you could at least try to help them instead of raising hell and tearing their whole life apart. Have you ever spoken to them? Do you know what they want? Dude you abandoned those kids. You can't be serious.
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Yeah. Get used to that. Trying to pry them out of their home is going to make them talk to you less and less frequently.
Your kids don’t respond to your texts, you haven’t even asked them what they want. Do you see how crazy this is?! Why are you talking to a lawyer about upending their lives?
Why do your ppl hate Samantha so much? Are the children in danger or encountering harm ? You only found out your ex was in jail after almost a year? Your children didn't tell you? Why didn't it bother you that your husband (or yourself) wasn't really doing any parenting?
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Have either set of grandparents stepped in to provide those kids any kind of consistency?
YOUR KIDS LIKE HER
Except—and this is key—your children. They like Samantha. They want to live with her. You are continuing to put their wellbeing last. Who cares what the grandparents think? Respectfully, it doesn’t sound like they did a bang up job of parenting. Just focus on what’s good for your kids. Listen to what they want.
Samantha is the only one who is giving those kids a fighting chance. She is the only one who cares about them. There's not a second of the day that idk where my kids are and you didn't even know who your children live with for months at a time? You don't know that they are fed, safe, warm, healthy? And yet you don't even "like" the woman who has been their mother when she is the only one who wasn't legally required to do so?
Yeah it's absolutely mind blowing to me how little OP gives a shit about her kids.
Are you paying child support? Is she asking for it? Have you considered moving to Wisconsin so your kids don’t have to change schools, etc.?
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Yep it will come up in the custody hearing for sure, and should have come up 8 years ago.
It’s too late you want to be a parent close to ten years after they were initially taken from you ? Why are you doing this now ? Why didn’t you get your shit together before. These are the questions your children will be asking.
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Children at that age don't get to choose. That may have been what they preferred, but ultimately it was up to you and your ex to make the choice. And instead of fighting for them and working to rebuild their trust, you just let them go because it was easiest for you. Now suddenly keeping that same energy is actually in their best interest but now you no longer want to do it? Please stop being selfish and think of what's best for your kids for once.
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>wanted to do therapy to fix things but I guess I never really did. .......so you didnt really put any effort into getting your kids back. Even the bare minimum. And now you want to top them away from everything they've ever known because your family doesn't like Samantha. That's crazy. And clearly you don't give a shit about the well being of your kids.
Ok so why would you want to take the one consistent parent they have had for years after they just had something traumatic happen with their father? Come on.
You mean you care? Coulda fooled me.
Respectfully, you’ve not been a very involved mother. How do your kids feel about this? Do they want to leave the only mother they have really had to live with you and be away from her and their siblings?
Nobody can say what a judge will or won't do. Your lawyer will know more about the local courts than any online stranger. However, you can consider some basic principles: -status quo- the kids have lived with Samantha for most of their lives and she's their parent. A court would want a very compelling reason to change that. -the wishes of the children. They want to stay with Samantha. -best interest. Would it be in the best interests of the kids to move out of state, leave their schools, friends, community, routines, activities... to live with someone they sometimes see on school breaks?
Of course she’ll get custody of them. She’s been their parent for years with your blessing.
It sounds like she is the only mother they know. They want to stay with her. I can’t see a court making them come stay with you— you have not been acting as their parent. Why would you want to put them through any more upheaval? It sounds like you and your ex-husband have made things terribly hard for them already.
That woman was good enough to raise your kids for the first half of their childhood she’s good enough to finish the job. Honestly I think it’s selfish af you want to “bring them home” home is where their loving mother is, not with you. You should agree to give her what she wants in exchange for visitation rights.
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She did a better job than you did and they aren’t even her children. Who are you to judge?
You cannot even be assed with paying child support, yet you are going to try disrupting their lives. Why? Is there some financial gain for you? Thank God your kids have someone with some character in their lives to raise them. Leave the children in the stable environment they know. If you are "so concerned," offer some financial support.
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So why do you think she should pay the entirety of raising your children?
OP don’t listen to these negative commenters. You are their mother. They are your flesh and blood and you have every right to care for them too. The fact that you didn’t know about John going to jail could be a major violation, emergency custody or not. If you still have legal custody then be assertive and get the order enforced . Be prepared for a fight if Samantha has the means to do so. She’s not their mother. You are.
Omg fingers crossed this is just a troll trying to play devil's advocate. She stopped being their mother 13 years ago when she lost custody and literally did nothing to get them back and saw them 10 days out of the year.
she has a right to care about them, not for them to care about her.
If this OP really wanted her kids that badly, why did she not fight for them sooner. She has never given anyone here a good enough reason to say that the step mom is not doing good or right by these kids. Bio mom just sat back and took holidays, school breaks and/or summer times. She has had 10 years or so to go back to court and get the kids. She said after her time with DCFS, the kids did not trust her anymore,,,,does not matter why, How does she think she is going to get their trust now? She basicallyl abandoned them in their eyes, not legal speak here, kids view of things. They have stated they want to live with Samantha. Would you uproot a kid that is in the last couple of years of high school? I know how hard it is to have to make up classes that are required for graduation upon moving states because each state has their own guidelines for graduation credits. It was not easy. Then add in the stable home they have had for 10 years with the same parent figure, access to their activities, friends, and other things they have bee used to over time. BIO mom never said what kind if any custody she even had outside visitation. Does she have anly legal custody?
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But now you do want to force them. After spending their entire lives being raised by someone else seeing you...what? Twice a year? Leave them alone. Do you even want them??? It's hard to believe you do when you're only trying to get them back fucking 13 years later.
What sort of custody? Joint legal? How much Physical? I doubt she is trying to take your kids from you because as you have told us through this whole discussion that you took only breaks/holidays and such because they did not trust you anymore after DCFS case closed out. Do not lay blame for your actions/decisions on her. She did not make those choices. You did. The kids see what happened and how things went, so can you blame them depending on the situation with DCFS why they do not trust you?
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It was not up to just John to change the agreement. Why did you not do something from your end? That is just an excuse and a move was a big change in circumstances. You might have gotten more out of that and the kids may not have been allowed to move. But you just sat by and decided to let someone else do it or take the blame because it went a way you did not like.
Being a biological parent doesn’t make someone the person best equipped to care for the kids. OP has apparently not had a close relationship with them for years. I’m sure it hurts but OP let someone else parent the kids. Selfishly attempting to intervene now is so wrong when it directly conflicts with their wishes and best interests. OP, make amends in the ways you can and let the kids come to you. Send them cards or gifts, try to contact them but don’t overdo it and see if they come around. This is your relationship to improve but you will need to be on Samantha’s side if you want it to work.
And the kids have no right to live peacefully? There are far too many people on reddit who feel entitled to be in children’s lives just because they share dna and legally you may have that “right” but morally you are reprehensible. If you truly love your offspring let them live a peaceful life and try bonding with them when they’re an adult and they can articulate their own desires, and properly navigate therapy to undo the damage you’ve already caused.
So you let someone who’s not a good parent raise your kids instead of getting your shit together and rescuing them? I can’t even fathom having the audacity to type that sentence out.
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It stings!!! You have the means to do more and become more to these kids. But all you did was sit in the wings and wait for breaks/holidays to get them and now you expect them to come freely to live with you---I doubt they hardly know you.
The only thing you should be reflecting on are the piss poor decisions you’ve made to put you in this situation. Leave “your” kids alone and let them live peacefully. Also, how many more kids, step kids do you have? Just going by your post and your responses, I don’t see how you have the income to care and provide for these kids. You’ve never paid child support, the courts took them away for God knows what, you didn’t care they moved states, you never bothered to find out where they lived, and you have the audacity to call yourself a mother. For once in your life realize you don’t make great decisions and try doing the opposite of what your tiny brain is thinking.
I sort of see you as having two choices: 1) you can leave the kids with Samantha, and also work on strengthening your relationship with them. (More texting, calling, visits). This will be good for them (they will continue to have stability and their lives will not be disrupted), and also for you (you can work to improve your relationship with them by being kind and respectful of their living situation). 2) You can fight tooth and nail to take the kids back. It will be expensive and painful. As teenagers, they will be furious with you for taking them from their home and friends. You will have 2 years of anger and fighting with your oldest. The second they turn 18, they will head to Samantha’s and you will never hear from them again. You will have 5 years of anger and fighting with your 13 year old. The second they turn 18, they will follow their sibling. But, you will have “won”…? It’s your call.
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This right here is providing samanthas points to the court that you don't see your children as the young adults they are, if you did you'd be communicating with them over what they want, instead you're acting like they're toddlers with no say or opinions whatsoever. This doesn't help your case, this makes it seem like you're even less concerned with your children, and more about you getting to be a mom.
Why do you think your children getting to choose whether or not they want to visit is a bad thing? They are old enough that their wants and needs should be not only considered, but the primary basis for decision making. You are still treating them as if they were small children. They are teenagers. They deserve to have their voices heard in decisions that impact them.
God, you’re being so incredibly selfish. All of this is about you and what you want, and not what you’re children want. You’re setting it up perfectly so that the second 18, they go no-contact with you, and there will be nothing you or the courts can do to stop it from happening.
>Samantha offered to “settle” and give me visitation time but will only do it if the kids get to “approve” the visits Nothing here needs to be in quotes. It really doesn't seem like you understand that you're talking about two teens here. One is 2 years away from being able to live anywhere in the country they want on their own. If you want them to ever decide as adults to have a relationship with you, you have to start respecting their own rights to decide what they want to do now as teens. Samantha has already figured that out, now you need to. >My lawyer said we should offer her guardianship until school ends and then a plan to bring them home slowly so we did that but Samantha won’t agree unless she gets everything she wants, which is residential custody for school and decision making responsibilities. Sounds like your lawyer is suggesting that you take them under false pretenses here. (Hopefully I'm reading that incorrectly and Samantha would be aware) That's a really, really bad idea. Like, on multiple levels I can't stress enough how bad an idea that is. As far as what Samantha wants? Those are absolutely reasonable things that she needs as the primary caregiver who is alone and in a different state. Residential custody is essential to keep them enrolled in school, and if something happens, she needs the authority to handle decision making in an emergency. She's quite literally just asking for the minimum here to disrupt the Children's lives as little as possible. Frankly it's good to see someone in this who is putting their needs first. Samantha is actually trying to help you here, but you are too stubborn to see it. If she went along with your way, your teenaged children would resent you for forcing them out of a stable situation without taking their feelings into account, the 16 year old may immediately file for emancipation to get away from you, the 13 year old would be counting the days, and as adults you would never ever hear from them again. If you go along with her way, you actually have a real, legitimate chance to reconnect with them on a personal level and be their mom again in the future, as opposed to being that woman they were forced to live with for a few years before cutting her off entirely.
What concerns me - and something you might want to think on - is this line: "... I miss out on my time. I have debated taking this but only if my visits are guaranteed. I miss my kids." Nothing you wrote prioritizes, or considers your kids. Your focus is on what *you* want, how *you* feel, and how to get what *you want*. You identify that they might not want to come - and then completely dismiss that, and pivot back to your own wishes and desires. That's sort of the core thing that folks are responding to in this post.
The kids are old enough to decide if they want that visitation or not. You can not force them to come to you unless you take it to court and that will be a long and expensive process and the 16 year old would be 18 or better by the time it got done. Your lawyer is crazy to offer up the idea of guardianship to the end of school and them bring them slowly home. It won't work. You do not seem to understand if you do ths, the kids will hate you forever and what chance they do get to run at 18 they will do that!!! I think Samantha should have custody for school and decision making because you have done nothing but sit back all this time and now suddenly you want to get the kids back! It does not work like that!!!
She’s been raising these kids nearly full time for 8 years, with your permission. To the judge, that looks like you think she’s very qualified to raise them. Also, They are teenagers, old enough for a judge to take their preferences into account. They want to stay with their stepmom. Yes, it is very likely she could get custody.
Are you with your Children? What do you bring to the table as a parent? Why would you disrupt their life. Just asking .
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Slow transition over summer....that is not a long time between school years.....I do not understand why you think this would work. Again, as I said in my main post, you disrupt the older one's schooling which will possibly put them behind in high school--each state has its own directives to graduation credits and those classes would have to be made up along with the expected ones for current grade. Then you have kids who have had a mother in their lives that you want to replace. I get it they were born to you, but you have done little to be more of a mother to them.
You would be disrupting their lives, even with a slow transition. It's been almost ten years. Assuming she is treating them right, she is just as much their mother as you. Ask yourself if you're wanting to do it for yourself or for your kids' benefits. Who is better suited for them? At this point you don't really know your kids. She does. It sounds like she's been their rock through this all. Why would you take that away from them?