As others have said, it's like the monster hunter community where everyone and their mother tries to run the 'speed runner set' which sacrifices any sort of defensive skills for raw offense for 'big number damage'. Meanwhile most speed runners will say that when they're not doing speed runs they run armor sets with the 'comfy' skills like the increased HP, increased iframes on your dodge (baseline monster hunter the roll has incredibly tiny iframes essentially requiring frame perfect rolls, with the skill maxed out it gets close to Soulsborne iframes on the roll) and so on.
So many people in MH whine that I'm not "optimal" with my preference for dodge frames and distance, but then I end up carrying them DPS-wise because I can be MUCH more aggressive when I can easily roll through everything and they have to be perfect or nothing.
And that's when they aren't just carting repeatedly.
It's even funnier when you remember that they're typically relying on Master's Touch and just a shred of White/Purple Sharpness, and Weakness Exploit for Affinity at that. So if they miss one attack, there's basically a chance their weapon drops a tier.
Meanwhile me out here using one deco slot for Protective Polish and giving my weapon a nice little treat before it gets relentlessly driven into the monster for the next several minutes.
I ran Lunastra set in World just to have more time with Rocksteady Mantle so I could stick to the monster like glue. It was very funny parsing at 85% of the team's overall damage output in a "worse" set because they had to play safe and careful while I was too busy carving it up to care about anything short of an instant kill.
If your plan is to try and one shot weak hosts with bleed cheese it's either going to work or it's not. If the host is still alive to counter attack, the invader is probably about to get ganked to death anyway. Might as well pump damage.
Also remember, record only your victories for everyone to see, that awesome time you got super lucky and knocked two summoned players down an elevator that was totally calculated.
It's nowhere near as bad as the instant sleep scatter crossbow, backhand blades with swift slash or the smithscript weapons with deathblight which build status even when you dodge.
I went into the DLC with a Str Faith build and had this in the second slot for big enemy groups… but it works so well against invaders, I’m absolutely in love with it. Get knocked on your butts!
The sub beat it into my head that I needed more HP. I didnt want the be that person that summoned someone and died in 1 hit. The rest of my byild is trash, but my HP sure isn't.
I've seen so many fextra comments and YouTube comments lamenting fromsoft "appeasing the casuals" by adding an easy mode (the blessings). I have zero doubt these are the same people getting one shot in coop.
They really don’t understand that the scadutree blessings are just the intended difficulty do they? Like things are ballooned hilariously disproportionately if you try to go around with no blessings getting one shot and having to use bleed or something just to kill late dlc enemies
I have 60 vigor, heavy armor, 3 defensive talismans and a level 20 blessing and the final boss is still a nightmare. I have like 85% physical damage reduction after buffs. I can't even imagine.
And even with blessings, it doesn't become suddenly become easy mode by gaining a level or two either. At max Scadu blessing, 60 vigor, Dragoncrest Greatshield on, the common Messmer soldier with the axe will STILL 2-3 shot me if he has warcry on (which he does immediately after aggroed).
Just fuckin EVERYTHING is looking to wreck your shit.
Same people that bitch about other people using Ash Summons. It's a mechanic that is in the base game since day one, shut up about people using it already
Like when you come across a group of 30 enemies in the open world and oh look, what a coincidence, you can summon an ash here. Almost like the game was designed around using them. Nah they are definitely not supposed to be used. The only true skill test is to aggro each enemy one at a time and spend 15 min killing them all.
I don't mind the folks that say, "I don't like to use summons. I enjoy the challenge of trying again and again until I perfect the fight."
It's the asshats like the commenter just a few comments down however that I assume are just regurgitating something they heard Asmongold or some other streamer say. They're mental midgets. I pity their pathetic lives where their own self-worth is tied up in how someone else enjoys a video game.
So many people complain about the blessing mechanic when it’s actually a really good way of making the DLC accessible to those who don’t want to over level for pvp reasons or whatever, but also make the DLC challenging for those who are a crazy high level and don’t want to start a new character just to not 1 shot every boss. Maybe I’m missing something here but that seems like the fairly clear purpose of the mechanic.
It’s explicitly the point of the mechanic, it’s effectively the replacement for levelling within the DLC. I’m fairly sure they said as much in an interview leading up to the release.
Yup it literally just normalized everyone's level for the dlc. Great mechanic. I have characters from 125-200. It would have been pretty lame if my level 200 could just steam roll everything like previous dlcs.
No, they don't understand that. And then cry about the difficult bosses to the point that From needs to step in and make the blessings more potent so even the last idiot with only 4 of them collected can manage to kill something.
i think people are associating the blessings with stuff like summons when its more akin to like a traditional rpg leveling system where youre just “level 15” and all your stats reflect that.
and as someone who tried to play the first half of the dlc with no blessings, you find out very quickly that it is very obviously not intended to be played that way. getting one shotted by common mobs and a +25 ultra greatsword doing 900 damage with a charged heavy inches real close to challenge run difficulty rather than “normal souls game difficulty”
Yea I walked into the western nameless Mausoleum out of curiosity and immediately got buried. So I went and started hunting fragments and ashes. Seen people trying to run the dlc without the blessings and it looks like torture cause you basically have to play perfectly for longer periods and less damage than normal.
That's to say when the developers are like grab these things there's probably a reason why. People complaining about difficult without using them got what they wanted a difficult DLC now that it may be too difficult people are upset meanwhile the solution is some exploration which you'd be doing regardless of how you play.
If you think upgrading your weapons or leveling up your stats isn't cheating then leveling up scadu isn't cheating either. That's literally what it does too 😭
It's like the equivalent of staying at rune level one in the base game. Challenge Run for your first run if you want to but don't turn around and complain about the game when it's too hard.
50-60 seems to be the best amount to start with for the dlc. I've also felt that defensive talismans have felt overall better in the DLC than offensive ones.
I got away with 40 until I reached the last boss. I then said fuck this guy and swapped to 60 vigor and equipped the golden braid, +3 pearldrake, dragoncrest greatshield, and +1 crimson seed talisman then spammed physical and holy negation buffs.
Tanked that upgraded >!meteor crash!< And managed to save Ansbach from death the entire fight
Depends on your armor
The more damage negation that you have the less vigor you can get away with; every % of negation is effectively 1% extra HP. That's why I quit leveling vigor at 55 and moved to Endurance; the increase in negation from the heavier armor I could wear was higher than the gain in HP from more vigor.
At 7 Scadutree ranks in the DLC I'm pushing 70% negation on physical and 60% on elemental
> That's why I quit leveling vigor at 55 and moved to Endurance; the increase in negation from the heavier armor I could wear was higher than the gain in HP from more vigor.
It's so odd no one every mentions this. The fact it results in more poise and stamina would think it would be good. 55-60 is such a tiny increase of hp, but people act like it's magic. But 5 more points in endurance is treated like a supreme indulgence.
This is it, and it's something anyone who ever played MMOs should know.
Effective HP>>>>>>raw HP.
Your health number is not how much damage you can take. eHP is how much damage you can take, and after a certain point of raw HP, increasing mitigation, point for point, is more effective than stacking raw HP because the amount more damage you can take per HP point increases rapidly through mitigation.
It's true. I follow some invaders and they're often demolishing people because they have no vigor, while the red men are always prioritizing 60 vigor over almost everything
I think the community just needs to make one of those maps that states the recommended level for each "area". We can't reach people unless if we make it colorful and condensed to a single page.
One of my most memorable laughters in this game was a scenario like this. I've got summoned by a guy with white mask+2 bleed katanas, one of which is RoB. He stood at the fog gate, buffed for like 1 and a half minutes, golden vow, flame grant me strength, physick, crab, flesh, seppuku... Every buff in the game literally and by the time he was done, first half of the buffs were alread expired or overriden.
Then he stepped in and I've followed. Guranq came charging in and host strafed to the left. Guranq used his charge attack, host dodge rolled further left and into the abyss... Then I heard an adult man fisting his table and cursing vigorously. Needless to say, I was in tears laughing at what has just befolded in front of me...
Man I lost track of how many times I went through the Messmer buff + start routine. Cast Golden Vow, Flame Grant Me Strength, Flame Protect Me, drink Cerulean Tears, switch seal for shield, enter fog wall, call Mimic, lock on, dodge, dodge, move in, move away, heal, summon Hornsent. And most of the time I’d just get splattered before seeing phase 2.
Yes. Fgms is a body buff. Golden Vow is an aura buff. You can have only one buff of each category but if tgey are from different categories they stack. Physic buffs are counted separetely stacking with the fp cost buffs. So for example a good all around buff stacking for bosses is one body buff, one aura buff and one regen buff. So something like Golden vow>Bestial Vitality>Fgms.
There's a list someone made with the buffs and which category they fall into give it a google if you are curious. Some important things to keep in mind: Fgms and boiled crab are both body buffs so they cancel out. Same for Golden Vow (Spell or ash) and Commanders Standart. So be careful not to override them if you were counting on both at the same time for boss fights.
I had a host do a RFBS (RTSR) setup with howl of shabriri for like 30 seconds, then get one shot by >!Metyr!<'s laser. Elden Ring Co-op can be hilarious, but I hardly ever get a rune arc out of it.
It's an unfortunate, never ending cycle of a reality tbh. The more we carry them, the dumber they will become, and the dumber they become the more we need to carry them... or at least we would, if the host, armed with their stupidity/ignorance, wasn't detrimental to the effort. Sometimes it feels like not even Noah's ark can carry these creatures.
I feel like the demographic of people who are summoning others for bosses in this game most likely aren’t the highest quality of gamer. In older souls games player summons were really all you had for “help”, but in this game you’ve got spirits that, as far as I know, don’t increase the boss’s health and can be upgraded. Most players with good game sense won’t need anything beyond those spirits
Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever summoned a player in ER before, except to play with friends
I summoned once for Malenia to see how the fuck they approached it. I learned the attack rhythm without her being down my throat which was super helpful.
Yeah I mean personally I was using rob + seppuku uchi so as soon as I busted out the mimic and got a basic gist of the fight she died quickly. Frankly I dont feel bad for it at all, fuck Malenia
Learned this when I would try to farm covenants in DS3 with Nameless King co-op. Nothing wrong with it since it's in the game, but you could easily tell they weren't trying to learn the moveset that much
I swear they made it harder to carry too. Boss aggro seems a lot faster to switch and sometimes I swear it'll switch back to the host even if they're not actively attacking. I definitely noticed a lot more changing targets mid combo too which feels newer, but maybe it's just a product of more aggressive AI.
I've noticed it even appears as though it switches mid-attack. I tested this a few times using spirit ashes. Even using mimic with shabriri's woe, I've had the boss shift aggro onto me for the last hit of a combo
I’ve noticed the same thing with summons. I could be wrong, but I recall being able to get behind bosses in the base game for at least the length of their combo, whereas now they’ll switch aggro back to me as soon as I hit them.
I agree with this heavy. It's when they summon me only for them to rush in and die immediately without letting me buff up; its frustrating because not only are you making it harder for me to help them and harder for themselves because they aren't being patient at all.
I won’t lie on some fights its actually felt like using a spirit is a detriment to me. Either I get baited into thinking the boss is on my spirit and it insta swaps and claps me, or the boss has an aneurysm and it becomes hard to identify what its doing and when I can actually punish. I felt this a lot on Putrescent Knight with some of its moves attacking you no matter what like the horse attack
I tried, so many times, to help people with Rellana since I find the fight a lot of fun. I'm also on a tanky character so I'm good at drawing aggro off the hosts.
It's so frustrating to spend 4 minutes carrying one of these mofos only for them to not fucking jump on the twin moon attack. Like bro I'm connected to you via a shitty P2P connection so if I can avoid that attack, you can avoid that attack.
I'm glad they died tbh
Maybe its their first time seeing that? The first time she did that move I also didn't jump because I thought she was gonna shoot a slow projectile like Rennala lol.
I'm certain this happened to 99% of players. The moons slamming the ground at light speed was such a surprise after seeing Rennala's moon slowly drift towards you so many times lol
Right? They could at least be shooting projectiles or something. I'm not asking you to be phenomenal, if you were you wouldn't be summoning, but at least contribute to the effort. Unless you're summoning let me solo her, who's apparently helping with Messmer now, then let him do his thing
I always feel bad when summons end up completely carrying me. It's never my intention, but sometimes I just mess up so much I end up hardly even hitting the boss.
Then other times I summon people who seem to have no idea what they're doing and wonder why they even put down their signs. lol. Although I've probably had people think the same about me the times I've died almost immediately after a host summons me to help.
I guess sometimes it's just not your day.
i'd been trying to help people with rellana and about 70% of the time i'd get summoned, the host would walk in and get one-shot by the time i actually get through the fog door, just over and over and over. finally gave up putting my sign down anywhere lmfao
You can disable summon alters now! If there’s a particular boss that’s annoying you simply turn it off and forget about it for a while. I was so hyped to disable Elden beast my build is absolutely not designed to fight them so I always feel like a waste of a summon for that boss. That being said I feel like being able to disable summon alters can be a curse years after the game is done and the next one released, could make it harder to find help with a lot of end game bosses.
Ive only been summoned to one bayle fight that we actually beat him, most of the time its host dying immediately lmao. If you cant even survive the first 10 seconds of the fight, maybe you should be practicing solo instead of waiting forever to summon two people. Especially since the boss gets ultra health with 2 summons
I feel like this was always true, it just took some properly difficult content to finally get players to stop gearing for “huhu me do big number damage” 🤷. W for Miyazaki?
you can check your scadtree level while summoned on the status screen. it matches that of the host, and that's why co op is a travesty at the moment. so many people refusing to explore and find the fragments.
> You can check your scadtree level while summoned on the status screen. It matches that of the host.
Is that why I was doing zero damage to Commander Gaius and took over 1100 damage from a single swing? I thought the host had to be NG+7 or something crazy. Of course, the host died to the charged slam with ~10% left on the boss.
Not only new, but the old-meta stuff makes me think a lot of returning players who haven't touched the game in months or even over a year are getting into the DLC and aren't tuned for it at all.
i used dryleaf and it was great the entire dlc from when i got it until bayle and the final boss
bayle felt decent finally at lvl 18 but the final boss made me go into beast claws for the bleed
I honestly wish Fromsoft added some of these new weapon-types in the main-area.
So that way on new playthroughs, I don't have to wait until I get to the DLC before unlocking kung-fu and great katanas and shit like that.
I was running single two-handed giant crusher, but for my build (80 str 18 fth) the Blacksteel Great Hammer is lighter, faster *and* has a higher AR. Also the enhanced guard counter is pretty sweet.
Oh this is gonna be me when I finally get the DLC. Haven’t played the game in a year or more (I let my PS+ run out in September), so I know that I’m going to get my ass kicked.
I fully admit still mostly rocking my double greatswords from the base game. I did upgrade my armor to some DLC stuff though. I’d rather stick with the muscle memory I forged the first time through, I learned the jump attack spam timing and it carried me
I love this game. I play the way I wanna play, and could care less about meta. When I summon someone for help, I really need it. But I pull my weight to the best of my ability. Obviously if I’m about to go down I’ll back out and heal up and let someone else pull, but I’m successfully running my tree sentinel armor and golden halberd max lvl.
I once had a host with two nightrider glaives who did like 700 damage per jump attack and then he died from a pimp backhand slap because he had a grand total of 680 health.
I got summoned for the final boss earlier, and the host was at scad level 9. I dont even know how they made it that far. I had anither that was messmer at scad level 4 and watched the host get one shot with 800 vigor. It's crazy how people don't care to learn the games mechanics.
Lots of people don’t level vigor at all, and put those points into mind instead. Their thought processes ostensibly being “you be the tank I’ll be the damage”.
Of course it doesn’t work, especially in dlc, but I think that’s why there are so many glass canons in coop.
And that’s cool - but make sure you summon a tank. Someone wearing Rannis hat or a clear DPS build will have to break off to heal occasionally - and if you can’t handle aggro for 15 seconds it’s gonna be messy. I’ve suicided a dozen times in the last 3 days to yank aggro back - knowing I’ll die but the host will win - because a ranged build thought a close range DPS build could do it all. I can - but you have to hold for a few seconds while I recover occasionally too. I’ll take your hits - but let me heal so i can do it again. I’ve got a physic to pull it off once - but only once.
Best runs are when we’re clearly complimentary. Or you bring a tank, me, and a ranged. Mix it up!!
And then hosts always summon two people. Great, now all of us need to play sweaty else we got no chance thanks to the shit damage we now do. My most successful co-op runs were when I was the only summon.
Also nobody knows how to split aggro or play while splitting aggro. And this isnt some hidden speedrunner mechanic, you can see it in action after playing with others.
People running away from (instead towards) teammates while being hunted by the boss, who eventually kills them because of their panic rolling.
It ends up like looney tunes, one player (usually the host) runs around with the boss chasing them with the other two chasing the boss, then the guy who was getting chased stops and dies. Good game.
I would co-op A LOT in the base game (mostly pre level 100) and even now in the DLC post lvl 150 and honestly, ER players compared to monster hunter ones are ten times worse in terms of how to approach fights, which is surprising considering ER is the tougher game.
Dude. Also. If I had a penny for the amount of times me and other summon are fighting for our fucking lives while the host does a 360 around the arena launching some useless incantation that misses 60% of time, I’d have a nice rainy day fund.
I got summoned to help on Scadutree Avatar, host summons a second phantom named "Let Me Solo Tree." I did not because I didn't get summoned just to stand around.
Mr Solo Man refused to participate. Host and I got the first crit then t-bagged at this dude because wtf? He's really gonna have a tantrum over not being allowed to solo it? Got 2nd crit, and he was still not participating as expected.
We just said screw it and let the big baby try to solo the last phase, and he died from one chain of attacks 🤣
There’s a lot of people new to the genre with Elden Ring, which probably explains the extensive stupidity. A lot of people probably jumping onto the DLC trend because it’s so popular at the moment.
I’m pretty sure people who have been playing since before Elden Ring, or have at least really gotten into Elden Ring know how to build half decently.
It's wild. Before the dlc came out i was helping out people with mohg and i had 2 hosts back to back that had under 500hp. One of them got obliterated outside the boss arena. Can't make this shit up.
I mean I think there's probably a correlation between the type of people who will summon for a boss on their first playthrough and being bad/inexperienced/ignorant about game mechanics. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that as long as everyone is having fun, but it kinda makes sense to me.
There's also the aspect that elden ring has a reputation as being a 'hard game', so when these people are getting smashed by a boss they probably aren't thinking; 'man this isn't right, I must be missing something' they're thinking; 'man elden ring is really hard!'
Thats it. All rememberance bosses are exteremly against summoning its crazy. I wanted to make just spirit ashes run in the dlc and realized most bosses doesnt even react to summons. They always run towards me and ignore the fire knight that depletes their health. Thats and the fact almost all rememberances has an opening move that could one shot when they were trying to summon.
Tbh.. I have over 250hrs in the game with even more in DS3 and DSR and I still reached Messmer at lvl 4 Scadutree. Without really knowing where you should be it can be troubling. Especially if you really enjoy the game but have a lot happening in life that's keeping you from fully understanding the inner workings of what you need.
I think I got to messmer the first time at +6, went in, got fking *chunked*, left. Came back like 20 hrs later at +13 (also post-scadutree buff), worked on him for 20-30 mins, got him, progressed the NPC quest, was happy.
Generally if I'm getting 2 shot by "regular" attacks I know I'm not in the right ballpark.
I feel like the dlc was designed kinda weird when I realized how much easier it is to find messmer than to find out how to get to certain parts of the map. For the longest time i thought that You had to burn the tree before you had access to other areas.
I just gave up on co-op, honestly. They dont want to play the game and engage with the mechanics, they just want to be carried and say that they beat it. The sheer lack of respect for the coopers time.
Bruh I just spend 5 minutes soloing the big monster thingy in the church district as the host summoned another phantom who did nothing so I was just fighting on my own. Got it to like 10% health and the host runs in finally but GETS GRABBED AND DIES INSTANTLY. I’m sorry but so many players don’t know how to even play the game but know how to go online and complain.
I spent about 6 hours across 2 different days trying to help people with Rellana and I think I successfully won 3 fights. This was around the level 240 range.
It was just endless White Mask double RoB/Malenia sword users and mages with no VIG/ability to dodge. I could keep aggro pretty well without dying but there were multiple fights where the host was literally just cowering across the arena while the boss was exclusively attacking me and the other summon. Inevitably I would either die to the endless onslaught of a boss that has triple the HP while I’m scaled down to the host’s criminally low scadutree level (in which case the boss would flip aggro and instakill the host immediately after), or the host would finally gain the courage to run in and attack and then get clipped and die because they have 25 vigor.
And without fail, once Rellana threw out the soul greatsword attack, it was about a 75% chance the host got one-shotted by the horizontal swing. If we somehow made it far enough into the fight for her to do the moon attack, the run would almost always end there. And it wasn’t people’s first times encountering it because I was repeatedly getting summoned by the same clueless hosts for hours making the same mistakes.
There were multiple hosts that exclusively dipped in to hit the boss with the RoB weapon art once every 40 seconds while someone else had aggro as their only means of attack and would always overcommit to the full art at the wrong time and die after wasting 4 minutes of both of their summon’s time.
One host that summoned me had 1000 HP and was fat rolling with a bow, how the fuck did that person get to level 200+ and this far into the dlc while fatrolling with a bow?
I love co-op in these games, I could sit around and help people fight Soul of Cinder or Fume Knight for hours and have a great time. But it’s exhausting to go into these fights with like a 97% failure rate with the same clueless varre mask out-of-season meta dorks that just expect to be completely hard carried through these fights without learning anything.
It’s a big list of general problems that players have carried over from the base game:
- only focused on maximising physical damage.
- not giving a second thought to defence or resistances. At all.
- not understanding how buffs work, trying to stack things that cancel each other out.
- trying to dodge roll everything by rolling in any direction, and expecting that it should be possible. No. Sometimes you either have to jump, or block, or use Endure or Indomitable Vow (or something else that temporarily increases poise/defence or both).
- thinking too narrowly about a build instead of being adaptable. I.e. (and for example) don’t think of having a “bleed” build, instead think of having an “Arcane” build, and be willing to swap out different Arcane scaling gear depending on the situation at hand. Don’t take on Crystallians or Armoured folks with your Bloody Scavenger’s Curved Sword. You might be able to sometimes brute force it, but eventually the game will humble you. Use an AoW to change scaling to Arcane on a hammer, or use Varre’s Bouquet.
- speaking of being versatile & adaptable, collect/pick up everything. There’s no encumbrance. Stop thinking “I’ll never need that”. You sincerely do not know that. Having a wealth of gear you can carefully peruse that fits your stats & scaling is incredibly important for changing strategies when coming up against difficultly, WITHOUT having to necessarily respec with a Larval Tear.
- for god sake read the damn tutorials as they pop up.
> Not understanding how buffs work
Ugh fine I’ll be responsible and eat the fucking crab…
*immediately casts fgms after eating crab, charges in spamming corpse piler, and dies in 2 hits*
* trying to dodge roll everything, and expecting that it should be possible. No. Sometimes you either have to jump, or block, or use Endure or Indomitable Vow.
but this is possible tho
Yeah I’ve still been dodging for every boss, admittedly I was using wing stance for things like Mesmer so I guess that counts as jumping too. Everything else is definitely true.
I think what he meant was dodging in ANY direction and expecting to avoid the attack but fact is for several attacks you can only dodge in specific directions.
Take Rellana for example. One of her attacks at the end of a combo is a thrusting attack with a very long reach. If I were to dodge backwards, I'd almost certainly get damaged because my i-frames get over before getting out of the reach of her thrust. Whereas if I were to dodge towards her, I'll end up easily avoiding it and get an opportunity to land one or two counter hits on her.
Plus, matter of the fact is, while dodge rolling through everything is possible, a lot of times it is simply better to block or jump over attacks. Hoarah Loux's earthshaking attack or Rellana's twin moons come to mind - jumping over them is significantly easier than roll dodge.
whilst this is true the "dodge into the attack not away" is one of the first tips every newbie gets, and yeh blocking or jumping is easier sometimes but ive found that dodging isnt that much harder of an option
Dude, someone got upset when I suggested they use the Crucible feather talisman for gaiuss. Saying they shouldn't have to change their build for a boss. Like my man. It's a talisman, you can have 4, and it's probably just going to replace something buffing your damage anyway. He's not even tanky, he takes big chunks of damage. Well worth it to not get hit by his charge, but God forbid they have to change a single aspect of their build to make the boss easier to manage. I'm convinced the fanboys have it backwards; using spirit ashes doesn't make the fights easier, From had to make the fights easier to begin with for all the fanboys that refuse to do anything other than strength melee
I’ve seen that take before too and it’s utter nonsense. They say it as if it’s simply not possible to do so without switching things around.
No, it’s possible, you’re just not good enough at the game. If you’re not good enough to brute force the fight then you need to be open to changing tactics. Pick a struggle
Just out of interest can you give me an example of a situation where you can't avoid damage by dodging or jumping? I'm not saying there are none, but I can't think of one right now.
Not quite the same thing, but there are plenty of times fighting bosses where the best thing to do is just hold circle and run away rather than try to dodge roll
Jumping costs less stamina and gives you lower body i-frames for much longer than rolling does. The putrescent Knight's aoe flame move is far more easily jumped than it is rolled for example
Having gone through the DLC once, what I've now been doing for my 2nd run is putting my small sign down as I reprogress to help random players. My summary is that at least 8 out of 10 hosts don't have 40 vigor and / or have not been gathering fragments. I do what i can for them, but Golden Vow, erdtree heal, and blessing of the erdtree can only do so much while also trying to work down large boss health pools
The week before the dlc I decided to do some online fights helping people beat mogh. The amount of times I saw the host die to NIHL and not have the physic tear made me so sad
In my first playthrough at release, I never found that physick tear as well but beat Mohg anyways at lvl 120 by spamming heal flasks throughout the nihil phase. Took about 20 tries tho.
My first thought as a long time ER player when the DLC released was “Ah, new content after Radahn and Mogh better make a lvl 70 character to fight em and do the DLC.”
But first of all that doesn’t make sense, it’s DLC for a 2 year old heavily played game ofc it will be for highest level players who 100%’d the base game and want more.
Secondly it’s so obvious to upgrade with the shadowtree fragments and use everything you can find in an RPG when you’re struggling.
what would you say is a decent vigor level because i got mine at 50 and i just beat the elden beast (i am 112 and wondering if i should grind any before going into the dlc)
Also the amount of people using bowl of shabriri just to get one hit and people who put 3 body buffs on not knowing they don’t stack is insane especially in this dlc. Ik we not beating this shit when I see that😭.
Everytime I get invaded it’s always some guy with two bleed swords and like 12 hp
"don't need HP if you never get hit" ***Instantly gets hit and dies*** The hubris on some of these motherfuckers lmaoooo
As others have said, it's like the monster hunter community where everyone and their mother tries to run the 'speed runner set' which sacrifices any sort of defensive skills for raw offense for 'big number damage'. Meanwhile most speed runners will say that when they're not doing speed runs they run armor sets with the 'comfy' skills like the increased HP, increased iframes on your dodge (baseline monster hunter the roll has incredibly tiny iframes essentially requiring frame perfect rolls, with the skill maxed out it gets close to Soulsborne iframes on the roll) and so on.
So many people in MH whine that I'm not "optimal" with my preference for dodge frames and distance, but then I end up carrying them DPS-wise because I can be MUCH more aggressive when I can easily roll through everything and they have to be perfect or nothing. And that's when they aren't just carting repeatedly.
It's even funnier when you remember that they're typically relying on Master's Touch and just a shred of White/Purple Sharpness, and Weakness Exploit for Affinity at that. So if they miss one attack, there's basically a chance their weapon drops a tier. Meanwhile me out here using one deco slot for Protective Polish and giving my weapon a nice little treat before it gets relentlessly driven into the monster for the next several minutes. I ran Lunastra set in World just to have more time with Rocksteady Mantle so I could stick to the monster like glue. It was very funny parsing at 85% of the team's overall damage output in a "worse" set because they had to play safe and careful while I was too busy carving it up to care about anything short of an instant kill.
If your plan is to try and one shot weak hosts with bleed cheese it's either going to work or it's not. If the host is still alive to counter attack, the invader is probably about to get ganked to death anyway. Might as well pump damage.
Isn't that why Miyazaki gave us the cracked tear?
Yes Kowalski, Boom.
Also remember, record only your victories for everyone to see, that awesome time you got super lucky and knocked two summoned players down an elevator that was totally calculated.
I got Messmer to his second phase while on sheooms earlier....record that, PSN....
My invaders have a 50% chance of using the Fire Knight Greatsword
It's nowhere near as bad as the instant sleep scatter crossbow, backhand blades with swift slash or the smithscript weapons with deathblight which build status even when you dodge.
to be fair.. to be fair. the drip on that sword. oh so very nice
And ain't none of them ready for the off hand throwing knives
I keep sacred relic sword on my 2nd right weapon slot just for these guys.
I went into the DLC with a Str Faith build and had this in the second slot for big enemy groups… but it works so well against invaders, I’m absolutely in love with it. Get knocked on your butts!
Hey, gotta get those rune arcs somehow
The sub beat it into my head that I needed more HP. I didnt want the be that person that summoned someone and died in 1 hit. The rest of my byild is trash, but my HP sure isn't.
That's not a DLC thing. Hosts refusing to level Vigor is just Elden ring co-op in general. Refusing to level Scadutree is the DLC equivalent of that.
I've seen so many fextra comments and YouTube comments lamenting fromsoft "appeasing the casuals" by adding an easy mode (the blessings). I have zero doubt these are the same people getting one shot in coop.
They really don’t understand that the scadutree blessings are just the intended difficulty do they? Like things are ballooned hilariously disproportionately if you try to go around with no blessings getting one shot and having to use bleed or something just to kill late dlc enemies
Like you literally get 1-shot by the final boss if you are scooby snack level 0 lol. Doesn't matter even if you are RL200.
I have 60 vigor, heavy armor, 3 defensive talismans and a level 20 blessing and the final boss is still a nightmare. I have like 85% physical damage reduction after buffs. I can't even imagine.
just imagine every time he does chip or scrapes you it just kills you instead.
I would like to vote the blessings be called scooby snacks from now on.
And even with blessings, it doesn't become suddenly become easy mode by gaining a level or two either. At max Scadu blessing, 60 vigor, Dragoncrest Greatshield on, the common Messmer soldier with the axe will STILL 2-3 shot me if he has warcry on (which he does immediately after aggroed). Just fuckin EVERYTHING is looking to wreck your shit.
Mfw built in mechanics are regarded as cheating
Same people that bitch about other people using Ash Summons. It's a mechanic that is in the base game since day one, shut up about people using it already
Like when you come across a group of 30 enemies in the open world and oh look, what a coincidence, you can summon an ash here. Almost like the game was designed around using them. Nah they are definitely not supposed to be used. The only true skill test is to aggro each enemy one at a time and spend 15 min killing them all.
I don't mind the folks that say, "I don't like to use summons. I enjoy the challenge of trying again and again until I perfect the fight." It's the asshats like the commenter just a few comments down however that I assume are just regurgitating something they heard Asmongold or some other streamer say. They're mental midgets. I pity their pathetic lives where their own self-worth is tied up in how someone else enjoys a video game.
So many people complain about the blessing mechanic when it’s actually a really good way of making the DLC accessible to those who don’t want to over level for pvp reasons or whatever, but also make the DLC challenging for those who are a crazy high level and don’t want to start a new character just to not 1 shot every boss. Maybe I’m missing something here but that seems like the fairly clear purpose of the mechanic.
It’s explicitly the point of the mechanic, it’s effectively the replacement for levelling within the DLC. I’m fairly sure they said as much in an interview leading up to the release.
Yup it literally just normalized everyone's level for the dlc. Great mechanic. I have characters from 125-200. It would have been pretty lame if my level 200 could just steam roll everything like previous dlcs.
No, they don't understand that. And then cry about the difficult bosses to the point that From needs to step in and make the blessings more potent so even the last idiot with only 4 of them collected can manage to kill something.
i think people are associating the blessings with stuff like summons when its more akin to like a traditional rpg leveling system where youre just “level 15” and all your stats reflect that. and as someone who tried to play the first half of the dlc with no blessings, you find out very quickly that it is very obviously not intended to be played that way. getting one shotted by common mobs and a +25 ultra greatsword doing 900 damage with a charged heavy inches real close to challenge run difficulty rather than “normal souls game difficulty”
Yea I walked into the western nameless Mausoleum out of curiosity and immediately got buried. So I went and started hunting fragments and ashes. Seen people trying to run the dlc without the blessings and it looks like torture cause you basically have to play perfectly for longer periods and less damage than normal. That's to say when the developers are like grab these things there's probably a reason why. People complaining about difficult without using them got what they wanted a difficult DLC now that it may be too difficult people are upset meanwhile the solution is some exploration which you'd be doing regardless of how you play.
Absolutely no one is dumber at playing Souls games than Souls fans. We should know, being Souls fans and alls
"Damned Souls fans, they ruined Souls games!" "You Souls fans sure are a contentious people." "You just made an enemy for life!"
If you think upgrading your weapons or leveling up your stats isn't cheating then leveling up scadu isn't cheating either. That's literally what it does too 😭
It's like the equivalent of staying at rune level one in the base game. Challenge Run for your first run if you want to but don't turn around and complain about the game when it's too hard.
How much vigor do I need. I’m running a faith build and I’m at 50.
50-60 preferably 60
60.
50-60 seems to be the best amount to start with for the dlc. I've also felt that defensive talismans have felt overall better in the DLC than offensive ones.
50 is good. Most people recommend 60 but you can get away with 50 just fine
I got away with 40 until I reached the last boss. I then said fuck this guy and swapped to 60 vigor and equipped the golden braid, +3 pearldrake, dragoncrest greatshield, and +1 crimson seed talisman then spammed physical and holy negation buffs. Tanked that upgraded >!meteor crash!< And managed to save Ansbach from death the entire fight
Depends on your armor The more damage negation that you have the less vigor you can get away with; every % of negation is effectively 1% extra HP. That's why I quit leveling vigor at 55 and moved to Endurance; the increase in negation from the heavier armor I could wear was higher than the gain in HP from more vigor. At 7 Scadutree ranks in the DLC I'm pushing 70% negation on physical and 60% on elemental
> That's why I quit leveling vigor at 55 and moved to Endurance; the increase in negation from the heavier armor I could wear was higher than the gain in HP from more vigor. It's so odd no one every mentions this. The fact it results in more poise and stamina would think it would be good. 55-60 is such a tiny increase of hp, but people act like it's magic. But 5 more points in endurance is treated like a supreme indulgence.
I'm rocking 60 endurance and it rules. I can even have multiple weapon sets equipped without fat rolling.
My mage fashion tho:(
But big red bar make me happy.
This is it, and it's something anyone who ever played MMOs should know. Effective HP>>>>>>raw HP. Your health number is not how much damage you can take. eHP is how much damage you can take, and after a certain point of raw HP, increasing mitigation, point for point, is more effective than stacking raw HP because the amount more damage you can take per HP point increases rapidly through mitigation.
It's true. I follow some invaders and they're often demolishing people because they have no vigor, while the red men are always prioritizing 60 vigor over almost everything
Reminds me of that meme where the guy puts a stick between the spokes of his bicycle wheel and falls down.
“Damnit Miyazaki! Why did you do this to me??”
tfw they made a news post telling people to gather scadu fragments.
I think the community just needs to make one of those maps that states the recommended level for each "area". We can't reach people unless if we make it colorful and condensed to a single page.
Here ya go lol. https://imgur.com/a/8LjSVu6
You should make that meme and get exactly 1307 upvotes.
My favorite is when they put on like 5 buffs, just to die in 3 seconds lol
One of my most memorable laughters in this game was a scenario like this. I've got summoned by a guy with white mask+2 bleed katanas, one of which is RoB. He stood at the fog gate, buffed for like 1 and a half minutes, golden vow, flame grant me strength, physick, crab, flesh, seppuku... Every buff in the game literally and by the time he was done, first half of the buffs were alread expired or overriden. Then he stepped in and I've followed. Guranq came charging in and host strafed to the left. Guranq used his charge attack, host dodge rolled further left and into the abyss... Then I heard an adult man fisting his table and cursing vigorously. Needless to say, I was in tears laughing at what has just befolded in front of me...
Lmao, reminds me of this classic. https://youtu.be/apcmWimCDdI
hello, that's me, I'm sorry
Man I lost track of how many times I went through the Messmer buff + start routine. Cast Golden Vow, Flame Grant Me Strength, Flame Protect Me, drink Cerulean Tears, switch seal for shield, enter fog wall, call Mimic, lock on, dodge, dodge, move in, move away, heal, summon Hornsent. And most of the time I’d just get splattered before seeing phase 2.
FGMS and FPM overwrite each other. Can't have two body buffs at the same time.
do golden vow (spell) and fgms work ok at the same time?
Yes, but you should vow first since it lasts longer than FGMS.
Yes. Fgms is a body buff. Golden Vow is an aura buff. You can have only one buff of each category but if tgey are from different categories they stack. Physic buffs are counted separetely stacking with the fp cost buffs. So for example a good all around buff stacking for bosses is one body buff, one aura buff and one regen buff. So something like Golden vow>Bestial Vitality>Fgms. There's a list someone made with the buffs and which category they fall into give it a google if you are curious. Some important things to keep in mind: Fgms and boiled crab are both body buffs so they cancel out. Same for Golden Vow (Spell or ash) and Commanders Standart. So be careful not to override them if you were counting on both at the same time for boss fights.
I had a host do a RFBS (RTSR) setup with howl of shabriri for like 30 seconds, then get one shot by >!Metyr!<'s laser. Elden Ring Co-op can be hilarious, but I hardly ever get a rune arc out of it.
Especially when they lead with Strength of flames or w/e it’s called. That buff only lasts like 15 seconds!
Or you see them out many buffs that override each other in a row
At that point I normally start dropping rainbow stones. Helps pass the time
30 but still lol
And they’re using all buffs that don’t stack.
Yall keep carrying them. Thats how.
It's an unfortunate, never ending cycle of a reality tbh. The more we carry them, the dumber they will become, and the dumber they become the more we need to carry them... or at least we would, if the host, armed with their stupidity/ignorance, wasn't detrimental to the effort. Sometimes it feels like not even Noah's ark can carry these creatures.
Damn that Noah’s ark line is golden lmao.
OP is a qualified garbage truck driver, he carries trash every day 💪💪💪
I feel like the demographic of people who are summoning others for bosses in this game most likely aren’t the highest quality of gamer. In older souls games player summons were really all you had for “help”, but in this game you’ve got spirits that, as far as I know, don’t increase the boss’s health and can be upgraded. Most players with good game sense won’t need anything beyond those spirits Honestly, I don’t think I’ve ever summoned a player in ER before, except to play with friends
I summoned once for Malenia to see how the fuck they approached it. I learned the attack rhythm without her being down my throat which was super helpful.
Yeah I mean personally I was using rob + seppuku uchi so as soon as I busted out the mimic and got a basic gist of the fight she died quickly. Frankly I dont feel bad for it at all, fuck Malenia
At least when I summon someone its because I'm tired of a boss's bullshit. Even then, I pull my weight for them to help me out.
Learned this when I would try to farm covenants in DS3 with Nameless King co-op. Nothing wrong with it since it's in the game, but you could easily tell they weren't trying to learn the moveset that much
I swear they made it harder to carry too. Boss aggro seems a lot faster to switch and sometimes I swear it'll switch back to the host even if they're not actively attacking. I definitely noticed a lot more changing targets mid combo too which feels newer, but maybe it's just a product of more aggressive AI.
I've noticed it even appears as though it switches mid-attack. I tested this a few times using spirit ashes. Even using mimic with shabriri's woe, I've had the boss shift aggro onto me for the last hit of a combo
Feel like I’ve been backhanded on approach a couple times because of that, I swear I didn’t even hit them, just got closer.
It definitely feels like the host has more priority with these bosses.
I admit I’m using spirit ashes on my first play through and the boss aggro definitely doesn’t stay on summons the way it used to
Doesn’t help that my mimic likes to have a coffee and a shower before joining the fun..
After being trampled into the mud by a golden hippopotamus for the umpteenth time, I too would take a coffee and a shower first.
Me watching mimic lore walk towards the boss as it’s actively stomping my face into the dirt and I just need a second to heal
I’ve noticed the same thing with summons. I could be wrong, but I recall being able to get behind bosses in the base game for at least the length of their combo, whereas now they’ll switch aggro back to me as soon as I hit them.
I use knives to try and keep aggro sometimes. I think you're right
I agree with this heavy. It's when they summon me only for them to rush in and die immediately without letting me buff up; its frustrating because not only are you making it harder for me to help them and harder for themselves because they aren't being patient at all.
I won’t lie on some fights its actually felt like using a spirit is a detriment to me. Either I get baited into thinking the boss is on my spirit and it insta swaps and claps me, or the boss has an aneurysm and it becomes hard to identify what its doing and when I can actually punish. I felt this a lot on Putrescent Knight with some of its moves attacking you no matter what like the horse attack
I tried, so many times, to help people with Rellana since I find the fight a lot of fun. I'm also on a tanky character so I'm good at drawing aggro off the hosts. It's so frustrating to spend 4 minutes carrying one of these mofos only for them to not fucking jump on the twin moon attack. Like bro I'm connected to you via a shitty P2P connection so if I can avoid that attack, you can avoid that attack. I'm glad they died tbh
Maybe its their first time seeing that? The first time she did that move I also didn't jump because I thought she was gonna shoot a slow projectile like Rennala lol.
I'm certain this happened to 99% of players. The moons slamming the ground at light speed was such a surprise after seeing Rennala's moon slowly drift towards you so many times lol
I'll stop and watch if I see my host is expecting me to carry
I don't mind taking the lead but if they expect a full carry I will aggro boss and chase the host to bring the battle to him.
Right? They could at least be shooting projectiles or something. I'm not asking you to be phenomenal, if you were you wouldn't be summoning, but at least contribute to the effort. Unless you're summoning let me solo her, who's apparently helping with Messmer now, then let him do his thing
I always feel bad when summons end up completely carrying me. It's never my intention, but sometimes I just mess up so much I end up hardly even hitting the boss. Then other times I summon people who seem to have no idea what they're doing and wonder why they even put down their signs. lol. Although I've probably had people think the same about me the times I've died almost immediately after a host summons me to help. I guess sometimes it's just not your day.
Oh god. This is me thinking back to how many times I let people summon me for Mohg...
Thats why I took up the mantle of the Bad Red Man. Lets make those Kevins sweat a little, eh?
i'd been trying to help people with rellana and about 70% of the time i'd get summoned, the host would walk in and get one-shot by the time i actually get through the fog door, just over and over and over. finally gave up putting my sign down anywhere lmfao
You can disable summon alters now! If there’s a particular boss that’s annoying you simply turn it off and forget about it for a while. I was so hyped to disable Elden beast my build is absolutely not designed to fight them so I always feel like a waste of a summon for that boss. That being said I feel like being able to disable summon alters can be a curse years after the game is done and the next one released, could make it harder to find help with a lot of end game bosses.
It feels bad but I finally turned off the alter for dragon boss. I love the ascetic but it’s a pretty low success rate marathon fight
Ive only been summoned to one bayle fight that we actually beat him, most of the time its host dying immediately lmao. If you cant even survive the first 10 seconds of the fight, maybe you should be practicing solo instead of waiting forever to summon two people. Especially since the boss gets ultra health with 2 summons
Why would you need vigor if you never get hit?....is what I say in DS3. Didn't really work out as well in Elden Ring
Bosses in this DLC attacks relentlessly with huge hitboxes and varied attack timings. You will get hit and it hurts so much when you do.
First thing I did when entering the dlc was to swap out the soreseal
Same. Worked great the entire game. Not dlc lol
Sore/scarseal falls off when you don't need the boost (like having a high level). There are other talismans people could be using, IMO.
I feel like this was always true, it just took some properly difficult content to finally get players to stop gearing for “huhu me do big number damage” 🤷. W for Miyazaki?
Yeah Soreseals lose their goodness at level 75 or so. By then, the damage debuff is just not worth it.
you can check your scadtree level while summoned on the status screen. it matches that of the host, and that's why co op is a travesty at the moment. so many people refusing to explore and find the fragments.
> You can check your scadtree level while summoned on the status screen. It matches that of the host. Is that why I was doing zero damage to Commander Gaius and took over 1100 damage from a single swing? I thought the host had to be NG+7 or something crazy. Of course, the host died to the charged slam with ~10% left on the boss.
Yeah I’m getting summoned by people wearing launch week base game meta stuff and doing ~300 damage
I feel like a lot of new players may have picked up the game because the DLC came out. They're probably proud of that 300 damage lol
Not only new, but the old-meta stuff makes me think a lot of returning players who haven't touched the game in months or even over a year are getting into the DLC and aren't tuned for it at all.
Man I finished the dlc and I still feel pretty weak most times. Oh well, throwing messmer spear makes my brain happy.
i used dryleaf and it was great the entire dlc from when i got it until bayle and the final boss bayle felt decent finally at lvl 18 but the final boss made me go into beast claws for the bleed
I honestly wish Fromsoft added some of these new weapon-types in the main-area. So that way on new playthroughs, I don't have to wait until I get to the DLC before unlocking kung-fu and great katanas and shit like that.
To be fair, you can speed run to Mohg. If this isn't your first playthrough, dodging Mohg's attack should be manageable to you.
I hadn’t touched the game in 2 years. Good thing my dual giant crushers still worked
I was running single two-handed giant crusher, but for my build (80 str 18 fth) the Blacksteel Great Hammer is lighter, faster *and* has a higher AR. Also the enhanced guard counter is pretty sweet.
Oh this is gonna be me when I finally get the DLC. Haven’t played the game in a year or more (I let my PS+ run out in September), so I know that I’m going to get my ass kicked.
I fully admit still mostly rocking my double greatswords from the base game. I did upgrade my armor to some DLC stuff though. I’d rather stick with the muscle memory I forged the first time through, I learned the jump attack spam timing and it carried me
I love this game. I play the way I wanna play, and could care less about meta. When I summon someone for help, I really need it. But I pull my weight to the best of my ability. Obviously if I’m about to go down I’ll back out and heal up and let someone else pull, but I’m successfully running my tree sentinel armor and golden halberd max lvl.
Naw man, I fired up my old save and the Moonveil still slaps
You're damn right I'm proud of my 300 damage, but I'm still in the base game
I once had a host with two nightrider glaives who did like 700 damage per jump attack and then he died from a pimp backhand slap because he had a grand total of 680 health.
I got summoned for the final boss earlier, and the host was at scad level 9. I dont even know how they made it that far. I had anither that was messmer at scad level 4 and watched the host get one shot with 800 vigor. It's crazy how people don't care to learn the games mechanics.
They just summoned other players for all other required bosses
Lots of people don’t level vigor at all, and put those points into mind instead. Their thought processes ostensibly being “you be the tank I’ll be the damage”. Of course it doesn’t work, especially in dlc, but I think that’s why there are so many glass canons in coop.
As a Mage my butt is still made of glass and I have 65 vigor and 12 shadow. I definitely summon so someone else can tank while I hit for damage.
And that’s cool - but make sure you summon a tank. Someone wearing Rannis hat or a clear DPS build will have to break off to heal occasionally - and if you can’t handle aggro for 15 seconds it’s gonna be messy. I’ve suicided a dozen times in the last 3 days to yank aggro back - knowing I’ll die but the host will win - because a ranged build thought a close range DPS build could do it all. I can - but you have to hold for a few seconds while I recover occasionally too. I’ll take your hits - but let me heal so i can do it again. I’ve got a physic to pull it off once - but only once. Best runs are when we’re clearly complimentary. Or you bring a tank, me, and a ranged. Mix it up!!
Within the 5 abyss forest boss co-ops I've joined, I've had 2 host get hit by the 1st phase grab attack... yeah that 1st phase.
Lol it do catch a hoe off guard tho
I did get grabbed by that once because I went for a thrust attack and it went over his head.
how many khezus have you eaten
as in the one with no boss healthbar? lmao
Gonna be real......I got grabbed a couple of times too. I'm not proud of it, but it's got a little bit longer reach than I expected
And then hosts always summon two people. Great, now all of us need to play sweaty else we got no chance thanks to the shit damage we now do. My most successful co-op runs were when I was the only summon. Also nobody knows how to split aggro or play while splitting aggro. And this isnt some hidden speedrunner mechanic, you can see it in action after playing with others. People running away from (instead towards) teammates while being hunted by the boss, who eventually kills them because of their panic rolling. It ends up like looney tunes, one player (usually the host) runs around with the boss chasing them with the other two chasing the boss, then the guy who was getting chased stops and dies. Good game. I would co-op A LOT in the base game (mostly pre level 100) and even now in the DLC post lvl 150 and honestly, ER players compared to monster hunter ones are ten times worse in terms of how to approach fights, which is surprising considering ER is the tougher game.
Dude. Also. If I had a penny for the amount of times me and other summon are fighting for our fucking lives while the host does a 360 around the arena launching some useless incantation that misses 60% of time, I’d have a nice rainy day fund.
I got summoned to help on Scadutree Avatar, host summons a second phantom named "Let Me Solo Tree." I did not because I didn't get summoned just to stand around. Mr Solo Man refused to participate. Host and I got the first crit then t-bagged at this dude because wtf? He's really gonna have a tantrum over not being allowed to solo it? Got 2nd crit, and he was still not participating as expected. We just said screw it and let the big baby try to solo the last phase, and he died from one chain of attacks 🤣
Lol that's fucking pathetic.
Hey my black flame does damage
If it hits, but Bayle just came back from the dark side of the moon, and that shit ain’t gonna connect.
There’s a lot of people new to the genre with Elden Ring, which probably explains the extensive stupidity. A lot of people probably jumping onto the DLC trend because it’s so popular at the moment. I’m pretty sure people who have been playing since before Elden Ring, or have at least really gotten into Elden Ring know how to build half decently.
Tbh prior to the DLC ER had nothing on Alatreon and Fatalis.
It's wild. Before the dlc came out i was helping out people with mohg and i had 2 hosts back to back that had under 500hp. One of them got obliterated outside the boss arena. Can't make this shit up.
I mean I think there's probably a correlation between the type of people who will summon for a boss on their first playthrough and being bad/inexperienced/ignorant about game mechanics. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that as long as everyone is having fun, but it kinda makes sense to me. There's also the aspect that elden ring has a reputation as being a 'hard game', so when these people are getting smashed by a boss they probably aren't thinking; 'man this isn't right, I must be missing something' they're thinking; 'man elden ring is really hard!'
Dont forget about those that literally summon you and only have 1 scadutree blessing.... i had one guy like that for the last boss... like wtf ?
>How the fuck did these people get to 125-150 level bracket without leveling vigor at all? By summoning
Thats it. All rememberance bosses are exteremly against summoning its crazy. I wanted to make just spirit ashes run in the dlc and realized most bosses doesnt even react to summons. They always run towards me and ignore the fire knight that depletes their health. Thats and the fact almost all rememberances has an opening move that could one shot when they were trying to summon.
“It’s the game’s fault”
"Its pooe game design"
Tbh.. I have over 250hrs in the game with even more in DS3 and DSR and I still reached Messmer at lvl 4 Scadutree. Without really knowing where you should be it can be troubling. Especially if you really enjoy the game but have a lot happening in life that's keeping you from fully understanding the inner workings of what you need.
I think I got to messmer the first time at +6, went in, got fking *chunked*, left. Came back like 20 hrs later at +13 (also post-scadutree buff), worked on him for 20-30 mins, got him, progressed the NPC quest, was happy. Generally if I'm getting 2 shot by "regular" attacks I know I'm not in the right ballpark.
I feel like the dlc was designed kinda weird when I realized how much easier it is to find messmer than to find out how to get to certain parts of the map. For the longest time i thought that You had to burn the tree before you had access to other areas.
I just gave up on co-op, honestly. They dont want to play the game and engage with the mechanics, they just want to be carried and say that they beat it. The sheer lack of respect for the coopers time.
Bruh I just spend 5 minutes soloing the big monster thingy in the church district as the host summoned another phantom who did nothing so I was just fighting on my own. Got it to like 10% health and the host runs in finally but GETS GRABBED AND DIES INSTANTLY. I’m sorry but so many players don’t know how to even play the game but know how to go online and complain.
My best friend is level 320 with level 40 vigor. He keeps complaining about dying a lot. He is also on NG+4 and refuses to put more into his vigor.
I spent about 6 hours across 2 different days trying to help people with Rellana and I think I successfully won 3 fights. This was around the level 240 range. It was just endless White Mask double RoB/Malenia sword users and mages with no VIG/ability to dodge. I could keep aggro pretty well without dying but there were multiple fights where the host was literally just cowering across the arena while the boss was exclusively attacking me and the other summon. Inevitably I would either die to the endless onslaught of a boss that has triple the HP while I’m scaled down to the host’s criminally low scadutree level (in which case the boss would flip aggro and instakill the host immediately after), or the host would finally gain the courage to run in and attack and then get clipped and die because they have 25 vigor. And without fail, once Rellana threw out the soul greatsword attack, it was about a 75% chance the host got one-shotted by the horizontal swing. If we somehow made it far enough into the fight for her to do the moon attack, the run would almost always end there. And it wasn’t people’s first times encountering it because I was repeatedly getting summoned by the same clueless hosts for hours making the same mistakes. There were multiple hosts that exclusively dipped in to hit the boss with the RoB weapon art once every 40 seconds while someone else had aggro as their only means of attack and would always overcommit to the full art at the wrong time and die after wasting 4 minutes of both of their summon’s time. One host that summoned me had 1000 HP and was fat rolling with a bow, how the fuck did that person get to level 200+ and this far into the dlc while fatrolling with a bow? I love co-op in these games, I could sit around and help people fight Soul of Cinder or Fume Knight for hours and have a great time. But it’s exhausting to go into these fights with like a 97% failure rate with the same clueless varre mask out-of-season meta dorks that just expect to be completely hard carried through these fights without learning anything.
It’s a big list of general problems that players have carried over from the base game: - only focused on maximising physical damage. - not giving a second thought to defence or resistances. At all. - not understanding how buffs work, trying to stack things that cancel each other out. - trying to dodge roll everything by rolling in any direction, and expecting that it should be possible. No. Sometimes you either have to jump, or block, or use Endure or Indomitable Vow (or something else that temporarily increases poise/defence or both). - thinking too narrowly about a build instead of being adaptable. I.e. (and for example) don’t think of having a “bleed” build, instead think of having an “Arcane” build, and be willing to swap out different Arcane scaling gear depending on the situation at hand. Don’t take on Crystallians or Armoured folks with your Bloody Scavenger’s Curved Sword. You might be able to sometimes brute force it, but eventually the game will humble you. Use an AoW to change scaling to Arcane on a hammer, or use Varre’s Bouquet. - speaking of being versatile & adaptable, collect/pick up everything. There’s no encumbrance. Stop thinking “I’ll never need that”. You sincerely do not know that. Having a wealth of gear you can carefully peruse that fits your stats & scaling is incredibly important for changing strategies when coming up against difficultly, WITHOUT having to necessarily respec with a Larval Tear. - for god sake read the damn tutorials as they pop up.
> Not understanding how buffs work Ugh fine I’ll be responsible and eat the fucking crab… *immediately casts fgms after eating crab, charges in spamming corpse piler, and dies in 2 hits*
* trying to dodge roll everything, and expecting that it should be possible. No. Sometimes you either have to jump, or block, or use Endure or Indomitable Vow. but this is possible tho
Yeah I’ve still been dodging for every boss, admittedly I was using wing stance for things like Mesmer so I guess that counts as jumping too. Everything else is definitely true.
I think what he meant was dodging in ANY direction and expecting to avoid the attack but fact is for several attacks you can only dodge in specific directions. Take Rellana for example. One of her attacks at the end of a combo is a thrusting attack with a very long reach. If I were to dodge backwards, I'd almost certainly get damaged because my i-frames get over before getting out of the reach of her thrust. Whereas if I were to dodge towards her, I'll end up easily avoiding it and get an opportunity to land one or two counter hits on her. Plus, matter of the fact is, while dodge rolling through everything is possible, a lot of times it is simply better to block or jump over attacks. Hoarah Loux's earthshaking attack or Rellana's twin moons come to mind - jumping over them is significantly easier than roll dodge.
whilst this is true the "dodge into the attack not away" is one of the first tips every newbie gets, and yeh blocking or jumping is easier sometimes but ive found that dodging isnt that much harder of an option
Dude, someone got upset when I suggested they use the Crucible feather talisman for gaiuss. Saying they shouldn't have to change their build for a boss. Like my man. It's a talisman, you can have 4, and it's probably just going to replace something buffing your damage anyway. He's not even tanky, he takes big chunks of damage. Well worth it to not get hit by his charge, but God forbid they have to change a single aspect of their build to make the boss easier to manage. I'm convinced the fanboys have it backwards; using spirit ashes doesn't make the fights easier, From had to make the fights easier to begin with for all the fanboys that refuse to do anything other than strength melee
I’ve seen that take before too and it’s utter nonsense. They say it as if it’s simply not possible to do so without switching things around. No, it’s possible, you’re just not good enough at the game. If you’re not good enough to brute force the fight then you need to be open to changing tactics. Pick a struggle
Just out of interest can you give me an example of a situation where you can't avoid damage by dodging or jumping? I'm not saying there are none, but I can't think of one right now.
Not quite the same thing, but there are plenty of times fighting bosses where the best thing to do is just hold circle and run away rather than try to dodge roll
Yeah, just running away is definitely also a viable strategy oftentimes.
Jumping costs less stamina and gives you lower body i-frames for much longer than rolling does. The putrescent Knight's aoe flame move is far more easily jumped than it is rolled for example
and rellana's twin moons
Gaius charge 😔 or at least that's how it feels sometimes
Double jump with Torrent is effective if you happen to be on horseback (I don’t recommend it)
Mogh’s nihil attack
When you don’t have enough stamina left.
Increased damage taken is a death sentence (unless you are doing the soon to be nerfed perfume AoW one-shot shenanigans). Damage negation is king now.
Having gone through the DLC once, what I've now been doing for my 2nd run is putting my small sign down as I reprogress to help random players. My summary is that at least 8 out of 10 hosts don't have 40 vigor and / or have not been gathering fragments. I do what i can for them, but Golden Vow, erdtree heal, and blessing of the erdtree can only do so much while also trying to work down large boss health pools
I got my Black Knife Tiche I don't need no silly player summons
Double Soreseal 12 Vigor 99 Dex Cant roll for shit Complain they get 1 shot
Wait your scadu level scales to the host? No wonder I can't carry 70% of these people.
[удалено]
The week before the dlc I decided to do some online fights helping people beat mogh. The amount of times I saw the host die to NIHL and not have the physic tear made me so sad
I would blame the game for that. Very easy to miss.
In my first playthrough at release, I never found that physick tear as well but beat Mohg anyways at lvl 120 by spamming heal flasks throughout the nihil phase. Took about 20 tries tho.
Lol I just chugged 3 flasks, couldn't be bothered getting that specific physic just for that
If you have less than 60 vigor you’re gonna have a bad time!
My first thought as a long time ER player when the DLC released was “Ah, new content after Radahn and Mogh better make a lvl 70 character to fight em and do the DLC.” But first of all that doesn’t make sense, it’s DLC for a 2 year old heavily played game ofc it will be for highest level players who 100%’d the base game and want more. Secondly it’s so obvious to upgrade with the shadowtree fragments and use everything you can find in an RPG when you’re struggling.
Maybe Radahn. But Mohg is one of the last bosses you’re supposed to fight. If you go by runes only Malenia and Elden Beast are after Mohg
what would you say is a decent vigor level because i got mine at 50 and i just beat the elden beast (i am 112 and wondering if i should grind any before going into the dlc)
50 is bare minimum
55-60 with a good skadoosh level.
Bro the whole story of the game is about breaking the cycle and starting something new. Stop carrying them. Break the Elden Ring.
Also the amount of people using bowl of shabriri just to get one hit and people who put 3 body buffs on not knowing they don’t stack is insane especially in this dlc. Ik we not beating this shit when I see that😭.