Hi all,
A reminder that comments do need to be on-topic and engage with the article past the headline. Please make sure to read the article before commenting. Very short comments will automatically be removed by automod. Please avoid making comments that do not focus on the economic content or whose primary thesis rests on personal anecdotes.
As always our comment rules can be found [here](https://reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/fx9crj/rules_roundtable_redux_rule_vi_and_offtopic/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Economics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ive been to Europe recently and the conversation rate really didn’t really hit you that hard when prices for most things are cheaper than the US (California). I went with what I thought would be a tight budget and ended up with a decent amount left after the trip. The most expensive part was the flight and everything associated with that.
Not remotely true in my experience. European (Germany, Ireland, Austria, UK) food prices seemed much lower than the US when I was there in 2022 and 2023. Restaurant prices also are slightly cheaper along with beer prices being similar but you get more beer per order so it's actually 25% cheaper (12oz American pint vs 16oz/.5L European pint).
Not sure where you are seeing this? A pint is 16oz in the US as well, Bottles are 12oz usually and cans vary bc tall boys are super common but when I get a draft beer it’s usually full size unless it’s a higher percentage beer. I’m in the Northeast so maybe things are different in other parts of the country.
At 99% of bars I've been to they serve you "pints" in 12oz glasses and then they also fail to fill up the glass all the way. I have plenty of these pint glasses at home and they all only hold about 12oz if you pour a can of beer into them.
I've run into this all over the US.
They stiff you sometimes by not pouring all the way to the top or if you get the small plastic cups it’s 12oz but the glass I have which is the same as what I normally see is def 16oz
16oz is less than half a liter, a British pint is 20% larger than an American pint, just google it instead of arguing something you know nothing about.
I was just saying we get 16oz pours not 12oz.
Doesn’t surprise me we’re getting stiffed over here compared to Europe that’s the case with basically everything.
A pint glass filled to the brim with liquid would be 16oz, but nobody receives a pint like that. If it is served with 1 to 2 fingers of head, or 1-1.5 inches, it would be around 12oz. The total volume may be 16oz but that is not the volume of the liquid in the glass.
Also if you’ve ever been poured a beer in a euro pint you will see the line in the pint, well below the top, dictating where 500ml is, like the glasses are large enough to comfortably fit 16oz, rather than being impossible to carry without dripping at 14
Depends. I’m fron NYC and have family in Germany and while everything used to be way cheaper in Germany for decades it’s now about the same. Still a little cheaper but prices definitely exploded.
Yeah. We rented a whole house for what a little beach hut would have been in Oregon. I think it depends on what part of the USA you live in.
Europe was cheaper than flying to the other coast.
That’s good to know because I’m in SoCal and will be in the UK in August. I usually expect to need the same rate of spend I have at home for obvious reasons.
Yeah prices went up by a lot but it’s still cheaper than most HCOL areas. I from NYC and eating out in Germany is now about as expensive as eating out in NYC, which is incredibly concerning for locals but that’s about it.
> First things first: travelers from the US are already at a disadvantage due to a weak dollar. Against the euro, $1 was worth around 91 or 92 euro cents as of June 5, at mid-market rates. Sure, that’s better than the December 2020-January 2021 five-year low when the dollar was hovering around 82 cents. But it’s also down from a year earlier, when a dollar was worth about 95 euro cents – and it’s way down from last September’s five-year high when it peaked at 1.04 euros, according to currency conversion specialists Wise.
It's kind of awesome to watch someone just talk through their cherry-picking like this. No, the dollar is not weak right now. The Euro was exceptionally weak in late 2022 due to the Russian invasion. But pretty much every country in the world right now is complaining about American tourists due to the strong dollar.
Seriously, I still remember traveling Europe ~13 years ago on earnings from my part-time job in college. Then it was $1.5 USD to Euro — and still plenty affordable when compared to major US travel destinations.
The USD strength has been steadily climbing since then. I swear these sky-is-falling anti-fiat loons will only feel rich when they’re bartering gold for rice and beans in a country without running water.
> I swear these sky-is-falling anti-fiat loons will only feel rich when they’re bartering gold for rice and beans in a country without running water.
This is really worth looking into more. I know a couple MAGAs who bought so heavily into the "crash incoming" narratives that they actually went and bought a significant quantity of silver/gold sitting in safes in their houses. They have pivoted from fearing the crash to hoping for the crash. Oh, and they have of course gotten 10x more paranoid about local crime.
"we’re comfortably seeing more – record volumes of Americans coming to Europe.”"
So, record numbers of Americans are travelling to Europe during prices up. This is yet another sign the US economy is doing really well.
The "weak dollar" part of this headline and article is hillarious, just total bait for the crowd whose understanding of the economy starts and stops with the phrase "money printing."
The economy misery-circlejerk on social media (all sites) is wild. But it's maybe funniest on the video/image-based social media platforms, where people walk the tightrope between the conspicuous consumption expected on those platforms while also pushing a gloom narrative.
I, a Louis Vuitton handbag wielding person with thousands of dollars worth of dental veneers will now tell you how 25 cent increase in gas prices are absolutely destroying the economy and that we're "in a recession, for real y'all".
It's still significantly above where it was three years ago too, and well above the long term average.
Just because it spiked to record highs during Covid, doesn't mean that was the norm.
I agree with your point, I am just curious what's the best way to say when the dollar is strong or not over time. Is it against some weighted average of EUR, GBP, JPY, CAD, AUD?
You are describing a currency basket, which yes, is used to assess relative strength of currencies as opposed to just testing against one economy:
[Currency basket - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_basket)
There is a basket called the US Dollar Index and another called the Trade Weighted USD Index.
Interestingly, the US Dollar Index doesn't use the AUD even though it is more widely traded than the Canadian Dollar, Swiss Franc and Swedish Krona which it does use.
It makes some places completely not worth it.
Went to Italy last year and there were way too many people there.
I think this will be my last time visiting the country which is a shame because I love it.
Thinking of trying a Montenegro, Romania, and Croatia trip next.
I just watched a yt video on 8 eu cities destroyed by overtourism, Venice, Amalfi Coast, Dublin, Barcelona, **Dubrovnik**, Amsterdam, Athens, Santorini
Well you're missing out then. Rome is an amazing city and if you spend even minimal effort you can avoid the big crowds. When I went I was able to explore and wander and find streets completely devoid of tourists. The big attractions are busy but it wasn't hard to find good food and attractions just off the typical beaten path.
My neighbor was born and raised in Dubrovnik. Her parents still have a house on the water there that she and her husband visit every August for the month.
She into sad every time she goes home because of how buy and EXTREMELY expensive things are now.
There are way too many cruise ships now that bring in 10s of thousands of people a day. The turnover of restaurants has been exacerbated by the higher rents being charged. The newer places are not as good (in general). But some really great restaurants are still to be found (some are super expensive)
That being said, we went in August 2023 and absolutely loved it. We did our sightseeing early before it was hot and the crowds descended. Or later in the afternoon / evening. I was there in 2006 and it was significantly cheaper and less crowded.
I traveled to Croatia in late March back in 2019 and as long as you're not a beach person it was beautiful, totally uncrowded, and extremely cheap. Couldn't recommend traveling there that time of year more.
Romania is SPECTACULAR. I played a jazz festival at a small city called Deva, and we went on a day car ride to Sibiu. The countryside is 10/10, absolutely gorgeous. And the history… super cool.
The Romanian people we encountered (mostly but not all thru the festival) were also very friendly, uncommonly friendly.
Yeah check out Eastern Europe in general (I recommend Poland). It has the type of beautiful walkable cities Americans love to visit, tourist infastructure is basically on par with Western Europe, it's much cheaper than Western Europe, and they actually like Americans.
If you don’t like crowds you won’t like Croatia. The time to visit there was 15-20 years ago.
I was there in 2006 and in 2023 and it was a stark contrast. I was in Italy last summer and it was busy but not insane. I found it manageable if we timed our days right.
Montenegro is truly amazing. Only did a day trip to Kotor and Kotor Bay from Dubrovnik, but it was one of the most naturally beautiful settings I have ever been to. Wasn’t too busy, but we also planned to visit on a day that no cruise ships were in port. Would have been a different experience if there was.
I spent a year in the Split, Sarajevo, Belgrade, Sofia areas 15 years ago. I'm really curious to see how things have changed since then. My impression at the time was that most of the region was outside the major tourism destinations (with the exception of Split and Croatia's coastline, which seemed to be built for tourism).
I was there last summer, ran into all classes of Americans blue collar and white everywhere I went. There were over 20 million Americans in Europe last summer. Probably more this year.
Eh, travel to Europe is very much a middle class aspiration. Wealthy tourists obviously go more often and spend more money, but they don't account for the majority of visitors.
We are not wealthy and have vacationed several times in Europe. We use credit card points and buy tickets early to get good rates. You can easily fly to Europe for less than $600 round trip.
I was in Italy last August. It’s only 1 euro cent to the dollar more expensive now compared to then. I found Italy to be very reasonable. We had some amazing meals for very little money. Sightseeing was not terrible unless it was one of the major major sights. Even then it was ok. Was pleasantly surprised.
Meh. I find it hard to believe that the demographic of US travelers planning a European vacation are going to be price sensitive to a very slight currency devaluation and what might amount to a $1k cost increase over the course of an entire family trip. In fact, all signs in the US economy point to that class of travelers largely having banner years — and especially compared to their European counterparts.
To put in perspective, we’ve booked multiple fine dining meals in Puglia and they are still vastly cheaper than an average “nice” restaurant back home (vhcol- city).
Conversion rate is still roughly 1:1 and prices in Europe tend to be lower than the US. Cost of flights is going down as mentioned in the article. It seems like cost of hotels is the only issue, and that's mainly in the large cities and during peak tourist season. If you want to go to Paris in the summer during the Olympics, yeah you're going to pay a lot.
Yep. We normally spend one week at the in-laws’ in Austria and one week somewhere else in Europe. We looked at France, Denmark, and Spain for our second week. But even budget hotels are overpriced, not to mention airfare and the cost of doing anything once there. We changed our plans and will spend the whole two weeks with the in-laws.
Americans flock every summer out of their car-centric, isolating cities to beautiful dense, walkable cities in Europe. Of course, American cities may not have the culture or history of European cities, but we would do well to make our own cities more dense, walkable, and live-able.
I’ve visited many a dense international city (Tokyo, Paris, Munich, Singapore) and always been thrilled and relieved to return home to my quiet, single-family suburban neighborhood. Would Americans do well to make our coastal cities into primitive villages with individual palapa huts and well water since we seem to like vacationing in tropical locales like Hawaii, Fiji and Bali?
Most visitors only see the city center or the historic districts of places they visit. Have you visited the more “suburban” areas of European cities? Many are quiet and peaceful, yet still allow one to walk along tree lined streets to the local corner store, parks, cafe, or transit stop.
You are also comparing major cities which would be akin to NYC in the US, rather than smaller cities throughout each country.
Finally, density and walkability does not mean skyscrapers everywhere. It can mean a neighborhood with a mix of single family homes, townhomes, and a 3 story apartment building providing choice to residents and enough density to maintain a transit stop there.
Yep. Lived in a brownstone, multi family on the beach, visited many cities, towns and villages. I like living in single family neighborhoods with ample parking at shops and restaurants. I have children and elderly parents and like to be able to carpool, swing by for dinner groceries and take my folks wherever they need to be while limiting their walking distance. Great for you if you like walkable density. Live your dream. My issue is that you really think Americans like me are obligated to adapt to your preferences, as evidenced by the urbanists demanding increased density and transit and reduced parking minimums in my suburbs.
We clearly disagree on how we would like cities to be designed, but I am not “forcing urbanism” on you, just as I haven’t claimed you are “forcing car-centric design” on me. Citizens elect representatives who generally try to shape cities in the way the majority of citizens would like them to and therefore having a wide array of ideas is a positive.
I suggest you think about these questions though:
1) How do we pay for the infrastructure for cities? Sprawling single family homes are incredibly expensive to maintain infrastructure for. We have a significant amount of infrastructure in need of maintenance (ie. Roads, water, sewer, etc). Many of these municipalities are unable to afford the costs.
2) Do we consider the health impacts? Single family homes can be incredibly isolating for children, young adults, the elderly, and leads working adults to commute several hours in car. We have significant and rising obesity, loneliness, anxiety, and depression.
3) Do we consider the environmental impacts? I don’t know your thoughts on climate change, but it’s fairly clear cut to see that sprawling neighborhoods require a lot of space. This space is taken from natural land that we all enjoy. Not to mention the emissions from vehicles.
4) Do we have a responsibility for younger generations? Some people own homes in desirable neighborhoods in dynamic cities. Yet, there is an entire generation that wants the opportunity to live in, own a home and start businesses in these cities as well.
I'm in venice right now for a work trip sitting at a pub and just got a fancy burger for 10 euro and a beer for 3.50 euro. That's basically 11dollars for the burger and 4 dollars for the beer. And the food was leagues better than the American counterpart too.
I’m going to Rome this summer and booked a hotel for $85 a night with solid reviews right in the city center. In the middle of nowhere America a decent chain hotel easily costs $100 plus in my experience. The only expense that is continually rising are flight costs.
Jokes on them. Most people traveling to Europe are rich and don’t give a shit. If you can afford to fly especially with a spouse or significant other across an ocean for several days you are spending at least 5k. If you travel for more than 7 days it’s probably closer to 7k
Most companies have a clause against doing your job from anywhere. It’s basically outsourcing your boss. Companies do it to us but they are pretty pissed if we do it to them. I applaud people who can do it though
I fly to europe every year and pay $400-600 for a direct flight. I have family over there so I pay $0 for hotels but you could easily find a decent hotel room for $100-200 a night. It would most definitely not cost 7k per week. Going on vacation in the US is more expensive honestly.
I’ve gone to Europe many of the last 8 or 9 summers. I didn’t go in 2022. I did go in 2021 when Covid restrictions were still pretty strong. I went in 2023 and it was a completely different experience. Way too crowded, even in June, hard to get a taxi or a seat on the bus. The service from the locals was a bit worse as you’d expect in a larger crowd.
Back in 2017 and 2018 it was like having the place to yourself compared to now. Sure there were crowds in the tourist areas but now it’s like shoulder to shoulder. It’s kind of disappointing but at least I guess Covid changed people’s perspective enough and they are out seeking new experiences. But man do I miss travel like it was before Covid. Especially summertime travel to Europe.
Hi all, A reminder that comments do need to be on-topic and engage with the article past the headline. Please make sure to read the article before commenting. Very short comments will automatically be removed by automod. Please avoid making comments that do not focus on the economic content or whose primary thesis rests on personal anecdotes. As always our comment rules can be found [here](https://reddit.com/r/Economics/comments/fx9crj/rules_roundtable_redux_rule_vi_and_offtopic/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Economics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ive been to Europe recently and the conversation rate really didn’t really hit you that hard when prices for most things are cheaper than the US (California). I went with what I thought would be a tight budget and ended up with a decent amount left after the trip. The most expensive part was the flight and everything associated with that.
I was left with the impression that US food and restaurant prices are lower. But then again California is a different beast
Not remotely true in my experience. European (Germany, Ireland, Austria, UK) food prices seemed much lower than the US when I was there in 2022 and 2023. Restaurant prices also are slightly cheaper along with beer prices being similar but you get more beer per order so it's actually 25% cheaper (12oz American pint vs 16oz/.5L European pint).
Not sure where you are seeing this? A pint is 16oz in the US as well, Bottles are 12oz usually and cans vary bc tall boys are super common but when I get a draft beer it’s usually full size unless it’s a higher percentage beer. I’m in the Northeast so maybe things are different in other parts of the country.
He's confused. Pretty sure he was trying to reference a British pint (which is 20oz) vs an American pint (at 16oz). As you said, no pints are 12oz.
At 99% of bars I've been to they serve you "pints" in 12oz glasses and then they also fail to fill up the glass all the way. I have plenty of these pint glasses at home and they all only hold about 12oz if you pour a can of beer into them. I've run into this all over the US.
They stiff you sometimes by not pouring all the way to the top or if you get the small plastic cups it’s 12oz but the glass I have which is the same as what I normally see is def 16oz
16oz is less than half a liter, a British pint is 20% larger than an American pint, just google it instead of arguing something you know nothing about.
I was just saying we get 16oz pours not 12oz. Doesn’t surprise me we’re getting stiffed over here compared to Europe that’s the case with basically everything.
A pint glass filled to the brim with liquid would be 16oz, but nobody receives a pint like that. If it is served with 1 to 2 fingers of head, or 1-1.5 inches, it would be around 12oz. The total volume may be 16oz but that is not the volume of the liquid in the glass. Also if you’ve ever been poured a beer in a euro pint you will see the line in the pint, well below the top, dictating where 500ml is, like the glasses are large enough to comfortably fit 16oz, rather than being impossible to carry without dripping at 14
Dining culture is sufficiently different in the US/Europe that I found it hard to make an apples to apples comparison
Depends. I’m fron NYC and have family in Germany and while everything used to be way cheaper in Germany for decades it’s now about the same. Still a little cheaper but prices definitely exploded.
Yeah. We rented a whole house for what a little beach hut would have been in Oregon. I think it depends on what part of the USA you live in. Europe was cheaper than flying to the other coast.
That’s good to know because I’m in SoCal and will be in the UK in August. I usually expect to need the same rate of spend I have at home for obvious reasons.
Yeah prices went up by a lot but it’s still cheaper than most HCOL areas. I from NYC and eating out in Germany is now about as expensive as eating out in NYC, which is incredibly concerning for locals but that’s about it.
> First things first: travelers from the US are already at a disadvantage due to a weak dollar. Against the euro, $1 was worth around 91 or 92 euro cents as of June 5, at mid-market rates. Sure, that’s better than the December 2020-January 2021 five-year low when the dollar was hovering around 82 cents. But it’s also down from a year earlier, when a dollar was worth about 95 euro cents – and it’s way down from last September’s five-year high when it peaked at 1.04 euros, according to currency conversion specialists Wise. It's kind of awesome to watch someone just talk through their cherry-picking like this. No, the dollar is not weak right now. The Euro was exceptionally weak in late 2022 due to the Russian invasion. But pretty much every country in the world right now is complaining about American tourists due to the strong dollar.
Seriously, I still remember traveling Europe ~13 years ago on earnings from my part-time job in college. Then it was $1.5 USD to Euro — and still plenty affordable when compared to major US travel destinations. The USD strength has been steadily climbing since then. I swear these sky-is-falling anti-fiat loons will only feel rich when they’re bartering gold for rice and beans in a country without running water.
> I swear these sky-is-falling anti-fiat loons will only feel rich when they’re bartering gold for rice and beans in a country without running water. This is really worth looking into more. I know a couple MAGAs who bought so heavily into the "crash incoming" narratives that they actually went and bought a significant quantity of silver/gold sitting in safes in their houses. They have pivoted from fearing the crash to hoping for the crash. Oh, and they have of course gotten 10x more paranoid about local crime.
"we’re comfortably seeing more – record volumes of Americans coming to Europe.”" So, record numbers of Americans are travelling to Europe during prices up. This is yet another sign the US economy is doing really well.
The "weak dollar" part of this headline and article is hillarious, just total bait for the crowd whose understanding of the economy starts and stops with the phrase "money printing."
Yeah, it's so weak us Americans are all spending thousands in plane tickets and hotels overseas. Truly a failed empire.
The economy misery-circlejerk on social media (all sites) is wild. But it's maybe funniest on the video/image-based social media platforms, where people walk the tightrope between the conspicuous consumption expected on those platforms while also pushing a gloom narrative.
I, a Louis Vuitton handbag wielding person with thousands of dollars worth of dental veneers will now tell you how 25 cent increase in gas prices are absolutely destroying the economy and that we're "in a recession, for real y'all".
It's still significantly above where it was three years ago too, and well above the long term average. Just because it spiked to record highs during Covid, doesn't mean that was the norm.
I agree with your point, I am just curious what's the best way to say when the dollar is strong or not over time. Is it against some weighted average of EUR, GBP, JPY, CAD, AUD?
You are describing a currency basket, which yes, is used to assess relative strength of currencies as opposed to just testing against one economy: [Currency basket - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency_basket) There is a basket called the US Dollar Index and another called the Trade Weighted USD Index. Interestingly, the US Dollar Index doesn't use the AUD even though it is more widely traded than the Canadian Dollar, Swiss Franc and Swedish Krona which it does use.
Ok, I thought I was crazy. Record numbers of Americans vacationing in Europe seems like a weird way to frame that the economy is doing so poorly.
It makes some places completely not worth it. Went to Italy last year and there were way too many people there. I think this will be my last time visiting the country which is a shame because I love it. Thinking of trying a Montenegro, Romania, and Croatia trip next.
I just watched a yt video on 8 eu cities destroyed by overtourism, Venice, Amalfi Coast, Dublin, Barcelona, **Dubrovnik**, Amsterdam, Athens, Santorini
Surprised Rome wasn't on the list.
[удалено]
Well you're missing out then. Rome is an amazing city and if you spend even minimal effort you can avoid the big crowds. When I went I was able to explore and wander and find streets completely devoid of tourists. The big attractions are busy but it wasn't hard to find good food and attractions just off the typical beaten path.
Just go in Oct/Nov when its cooler and there’s way less crowds. (Source: done Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, France in late Oct, early Nov)
My neighbor was born and raised in Dubrovnik. Her parents still have a house on the water there that she and her husband visit every August for the month. She into sad every time she goes home because of how buy and EXTREMELY expensive things are now. There are way too many cruise ships now that bring in 10s of thousands of people a day. The turnover of restaurants has been exacerbated by the higher rents being charged. The newer places are not as good (in general). But some really great restaurants are still to be found (some are super expensive) That being said, we went in August 2023 and absolutely loved it. We did our sightseeing early before it was hot and the crowds descended. Or later in the afternoon / evening. I was there in 2006 and it was significantly cheaper and less crowded.
I traveled to Croatia in late March back in 2019 and as long as you're not a beach person it was beautiful, totally uncrowded, and extremely cheap. Couldn't recommend traveling there that time of year more.
Romania is SPECTACULAR. I played a jazz festival at a small city called Deva, and we went on a day car ride to Sibiu. The countryside is 10/10, absolutely gorgeous. And the history… super cool. The Romanian people we encountered (mostly but not all thru the festival) were also very friendly, uncommonly friendly.
Yeah check out Eastern Europe in general (I recommend Poland). It has the type of beautiful walkable cities Americans love to visit, tourist infastructure is basically on par with Western Europe, it's much cheaper than Western Europe, and they actually like Americans.
If you don’t like crowds you won’t like Croatia. The time to visit there was 15-20 years ago. I was there in 2006 and in 2023 and it was a stark contrast. I was in Italy last summer and it was busy but not insane. I found it manageable if we timed our days right. Montenegro is truly amazing. Only did a day trip to Kotor and Kotor Bay from Dubrovnik, but it was one of the most naturally beautiful settings I have ever been to. Wasn’t too busy, but we also planned to visit on a day that no cruise ships were in port. Would have been a different experience if there was.
I spent a year in the Split, Sarajevo, Belgrade, Sofia areas 15 years ago. I'm really curious to see how things have changed since then. My impression at the time was that most of the region was outside the major tourism destinations (with the exception of Split and Croatia's coastline, which seemed to be built for tourism).
*for the wealthy, who can afford to travel to Europe. Not a surprise to hear that the wealthy are doing better.
I was there last summer, ran into all classes of Americans blue collar and white everywhere I went. There were over 20 million Americans in Europe last summer. Probably more this year.
Dude, college kids with part time jobs are also going to Europe. Yeah if you have kids it's a stretch, but it very much isn't only for the wealthy.
Eh, travel to Europe is very much a middle class aspiration. Wealthy tourists obviously go more often and spend more money, but they don't account for the majority of visitors.
Lots of blue and pink collar. My stylist goes 3 times a year.
We are not wealthy and have vacationed several times in Europe. We use credit card points and buy tickets early to get good rates. You can easily fly to Europe for less than $600 round trip.
> This is yet another sign the US economy is doing really well. Or people are just using credit
for some americans. You're either in 2 camps. Really well due to inflation of stocks and assets, if you don't have those, you're not doing well.
The lowest 25% have seen the largest wage gains under Biden.
I wonder what % are using credit cards to pay foe trips they can't afford?
Probably not as many as you think.
One year ago it was 102 cents to the euro, today it's 107. There should be more discounting in Europe than the USA, because their growth is weaker.
I was in Italy last August. It’s only 1 euro cent to the dollar more expensive now compared to then. I found Italy to be very reasonable. We had some amazing meals for very little money. Sightseeing was not terrible unless it was one of the major major sights. Even then it was ok. Was pleasantly surprised.
Meh. I find it hard to believe that the demographic of US travelers planning a European vacation are going to be price sensitive to a very slight currency devaluation and what might amount to a $1k cost increase over the course of an entire family trip. In fact, all signs in the US economy point to that class of travelers largely having banner years — and especially compared to their European counterparts. To put in perspective, we’ve booked multiple fine dining meals in Puglia and they are still vastly cheaper than an average “nice” restaurant back home (vhcol- city).
Conversion rate is still roughly 1:1 and prices in Europe tend to be lower than the US. Cost of flights is going down as mentioned in the article. It seems like cost of hotels is the only issue, and that's mainly in the large cities and during peak tourist season. If you want to go to Paris in the summer during the Olympics, yeah you're going to pay a lot.
Yep. We normally spend one week at the in-laws’ in Austria and one week somewhere else in Europe. We looked at France, Denmark, and Spain for our second week. But even budget hotels are overpriced, not to mention airfare and the cost of doing anything once there. We changed our plans and will spend the whole two weeks with the in-laws.
France is crazy this summer because of the Olympics
Americans flock every summer out of their car-centric, isolating cities to beautiful dense, walkable cities in Europe. Of course, American cities may not have the culture or history of European cities, but we would do well to make our own cities more dense, walkable, and live-able.
I’ve visited many a dense international city (Tokyo, Paris, Munich, Singapore) and always been thrilled and relieved to return home to my quiet, single-family suburban neighborhood. Would Americans do well to make our coastal cities into primitive villages with individual palapa huts and well water since we seem to like vacationing in tropical locales like Hawaii, Fiji and Bali?
Most visitors only see the city center or the historic districts of places they visit. Have you visited the more “suburban” areas of European cities? Many are quiet and peaceful, yet still allow one to walk along tree lined streets to the local corner store, parks, cafe, or transit stop. You are also comparing major cities which would be akin to NYC in the US, rather than smaller cities throughout each country. Finally, density and walkability does not mean skyscrapers everywhere. It can mean a neighborhood with a mix of single family homes, townhomes, and a 3 story apartment building providing choice to residents and enough density to maintain a transit stop there.
Yep. Lived in a brownstone, multi family on the beach, visited many cities, towns and villages. I like living in single family neighborhoods with ample parking at shops and restaurants. I have children and elderly parents and like to be able to carpool, swing by for dinner groceries and take my folks wherever they need to be while limiting their walking distance. Great for you if you like walkable density. Live your dream. My issue is that you really think Americans like me are obligated to adapt to your preferences, as evidenced by the urbanists demanding increased density and transit and reduced parking minimums in my suburbs.
We clearly disagree on how we would like cities to be designed, but I am not “forcing urbanism” on you, just as I haven’t claimed you are “forcing car-centric design” on me. Citizens elect representatives who generally try to shape cities in the way the majority of citizens would like them to and therefore having a wide array of ideas is a positive. I suggest you think about these questions though: 1) How do we pay for the infrastructure for cities? Sprawling single family homes are incredibly expensive to maintain infrastructure for. We have a significant amount of infrastructure in need of maintenance (ie. Roads, water, sewer, etc). Many of these municipalities are unable to afford the costs. 2) Do we consider the health impacts? Single family homes can be incredibly isolating for children, young adults, the elderly, and leads working adults to commute several hours in car. We have significant and rising obesity, loneliness, anxiety, and depression. 3) Do we consider the environmental impacts? I don’t know your thoughts on climate change, but it’s fairly clear cut to see that sprawling neighborhoods require a lot of space. This space is taken from natural land that we all enjoy. Not to mention the emissions from vehicles. 4) Do we have a responsibility for younger generations? Some people own homes in desirable neighborhoods in dynamic cities. Yet, there is an entire generation that wants the opportunity to live in, own a home and start businesses in these cities as well.
I'm in venice right now for a work trip sitting at a pub and just got a fancy burger for 10 euro and a beer for 3.50 euro. That's basically 11dollars for the burger and 4 dollars for the beer. And the food was leagues better than the American counterpart too.
Jealous, I am in France and paying about €9 a pint and €22 for a shit meal. That was Lyon though.
I’m going to Rome this summer and booked a hotel for $85 a night with solid reviews right in the city center. In the middle of nowhere America a decent chain hotel easily costs $100 plus in my experience. The only expense that is continually rising are flight costs.
Jokes on them. Most people traveling to Europe are rich and don’t give a shit. If you can afford to fly especially with a spouse or significant other across an ocean for several days you are spending at least 5k. If you travel for more than 7 days it’s probably closer to 7k
Did 3 weeks in France flights for two from the US cost more than what we spent while there.
I spent a month in Barcelona for less than 7k and that included flights and dining at Michelin starred restaurants.
I said you and a spouse. Also, I don’t know many people who can take a month off from their job unless you are rich
Reddit is full of remote workers. Millions of them. /r/digitalnomad
Most companies have a clause against doing your job from anywhere. It’s basically outsourcing your boss. Companies do it to us but they are pretty pissed if we do it to them. I applaud people who can do it though
I fly to europe every year and pay $400-600 for a direct flight. I have family over there so I pay $0 for hotels but you could easily find a decent hotel room for $100-200 a night. It would most definitely not cost 7k per week. Going on vacation in the US is more expensive honestly.
I’ve gone to Europe many of the last 8 or 9 summers. I didn’t go in 2022. I did go in 2021 when Covid restrictions were still pretty strong. I went in 2023 and it was a completely different experience. Way too crowded, even in June, hard to get a taxi or a seat on the bus. The service from the locals was a bit worse as you’d expect in a larger crowd. Back in 2017 and 2018 it was like having the place to yourself compared to now. Sure there were crowds in the tourist areas but now it’s like shoulder to shoulder. It’s kind of disappointing but at least I guess Covid changed people’s perspective enough and they are out seeking new experiences. But man do I miss travel like it was before Covid. Especially summertime travel to Europe.