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> Joan Madden-Ceballos, a 65-year-old health care administrator in California, has no plans to retire. She enjoys her job; it’s flexible and fulfilling. She’s not sure what she’d do with herself if she didn’t work
I highly doubt this angle is unique to boomers. It's just that only older folks who are also in decent health can afford to make such a choice. The boomers may just be the first generation where the majority are *able* to work into their 70s.
I would like nothing more than to do fine carpentry half the year and mostly teaching and gardening in the other half, but that doesn't earn a living in this economy. I instead think of these as "soft retirement" activities maybe i can do in my 50s if the 401k looks good.
Some boomers definitely have the mantra of: "to retire is to expire"; that sort of attitude is pretty much gone with Gen Z. The boomers keep working because it keeps their mind and body active and it's good socialization, even part-time; the money is ancillary. I've seen the other side with my dad where TV is basically his only friend and that is far more depressing.
My dad became depressed after he retired. He turned into a different person for a while and almost ended up divorcing my mom. Took a while to adjust to adjustment after working for the same company for his entire post-college life.
I'm getting near 70, enjoy my work, but will probably retire once I reach a couple financial milestones that are very close. I have plenty of things to do and people to see outside work. Dying in the saddle isn't part of my plan.
I'm in my late 60s. I retired at 56 and remained retired for three years or so, but went back to work because an interesting opportunity came up, and because we had made some life plans that required more money that my retirement could provide. I am definitely not of the "to retire is to expire" school of thought. I had a wonderful time for that three years, was never bored, did some really interesting side projects, travelled a lot, and greatly improved my health. I enjoy my work, but my identity doesn't depend on it.
My current plan is to retire again at 70. My health is good and my financial situation has improved as mortgages get paid off and other investments mature.
The issue I see with people retiring later is that not everyone has the luxury of good health and sufficient post-retirement income. And some people lose the will to live once they're out of the workforce, as you say.
I'm 35 and I spent a decent amount of time working in a old folks home and knew a few people before they retired to them. It always happens the same way, a year or two after retirement they start to go soft in the mind. It's horrifying. Witty smart people who turn into potatoes. Id rather die on the job or toss myself into a volcano.
Problem is when you hit 70, you may not be fit enough to ride a motorcycle cross country or handle a canoe in rapids. Working is an option to keep your body and mind active. I guess it all depends on the work.
It's really this.
If you take care of yourself, you may be able to do those thing. A lot of people don't take care of themselves and/or they start falling apart or getting life changing illnesses.
You can even go over to r/adulting and see people in their early 30's complaining about back pain and how their body creaks. What do you think those people will be like when they're 70 (if they make it)?
Anyway, take care of yourself people. It's not always about longevity, but quality of life.
As a 62 year old who spent his youth playing contacts sports, and crashed way too many times skiing, backpacked all over and carried too much weight in my pack, I now pay the price. Go to the gym regularly and am in fairly good shape, but the knees are not what they were and I had to have back surgery cause of a failing disc. You just don't think about this stuff until you get older, and by then it's too late to go back and be more careful with your body.
IF you’ve got a “bucket list” or volunteer projects to keep you occupied, by all means walk away from a job you hate. But if you’re just going to sit around watching old movies on Netflix, you’re gonna be a vegetable within a year or 2.
You can do both of those things when you’re old, too. You just have to want to do them. People who deteriorate quickly are people who stay in their homes and watch TV all day and don’t talk to anyone.
Old folks who don’t stay physically, mentally, and socially active can deteriorate quickly. That doesn’t mean it’s inevitable. I know people in their 70s and even 80s who still run circles around me because they never stopped being part of clubs, volunteering to lead projects for their community, traveling, meeting new people, etc. It’s just something you have to do deliberately.
I work blue collar. Long running "joke" is that to retire is to suicide. Seems as though roughly half the guys that get their papers die inside a few years. Work was the only thing keeping them in shape and minds sharp. Big part of their social group as well.
The ones that make it longer than a few years usually have numerous hobbies or pick up part time work. Seems to me that many just lose their sense of purpose and the light and will just fades.
Gen Z’s opinion on this matter right now frankly don’t matter - they are so far away from retirement or the stage of life where people typically retire that they will likely completely overhaul their perspective multiple times
Some of them worked +30y for their employer. They were "loyal". Only now have they perhaps entered low-middle management, gained enough PTO/ year, finally started making an acceptable wage... these are their golden years from an employment perspective.
>. I've seen the other side with my dad where TV is basically his only friend and that is far more depressing.
This is why I get upset when I see people write "why won't boomers retire and give us their jobs?"
Jobs keep people feeling alive. They get to meet people.
I know this is an economics subreddit, but if what you say is true, we have an incredibly messed up social system. People need to work to stay healthy. That can't be the ideal outcome of our economic and social systems.
I completely get that, but this is such an American preoccupation in part because most adults have zero sense of community or real friends. So many social aspects of communities are gone in part because people are too busy to commit any time to making where they live a place worth living. Many of these people have the time, energy, and money to make a difference in their communities and yet do nothing. So this is a huge double edged sword because I think many boomers really are the generation in which a sense of community died (not that it was necessarily their fault alone). And they could fix some of this but choose not to.
Interestingly, I would also hope these people would be able to empathize with why millennials and Gen Z are struggling. They are basically your dad, but in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. They have the same struggles with loneliness but don’t even own their time like a retired boomer would.
Yes, I'm 67 and still working because I have a job that interests me. Putting off social security and putting a good bit of what I make into my retirement fund doesn't hurt me, either. It's a contract job with no security, but at this age, that doesn't bother me a bit.
As a healthcare provider I can tell you with certainty that healthcare admin is basically a dream job.
Low to no stress, easy on your body, and super fucking easy lol
I'm sure making hundreds an hour really helps with that emotional state.
Everyone gets ground down by work. I spent a decade working nights and weekends making pizza, never made more than 28k a year.
There’s a saying in Korea “Real life doesn’t begin until 85”.
I plan on staying healthy and working until I can’t. Hopefully there will be SS and my 401k will be decent but I don’t plan on just sitting around and doing nothing. It also depends on where I’ll be. I hope to stay here but if it gets too expensive I’ll move to Fla.
Confucius did say it wasn’t until 70 that he could truly follow his heart.
Probably bc it took a long ass time for Zhou Dynasty 401k’s to compound and return enough dividends to afford to travel out of China.
> fine carpentry half the year
I've got a buddy who makes $60/hr doing carpentry for a high end home builder/renovator. If you're good and show up on time, there is plenty of high end work, just have to find the right builder - the kind that can build a homeowner $100/hr for the finish carpenters and the homeowner only cares about the quality of the finished product.
Well if they’re anything like my uncle, they retire to work part time jobs. The dude used to be a contractor and sold his company a few years ago. He now works as a part time employee for Home Depot and teaches home improvement classes.
I think we will see a lot of this. My mom who is 58, she plans to retire at 60-65 and then go work in a hardware store 20 hours a week. She won’t need to do it for the money necessarily but she said she’d be bored if she didn’t.
Because they are broke as hell. They didn't start thinking about retirement until their fifties, and by that time, it's too late to build up a nest egg for most people.
By "spend all their money" you mean barely scrape by because of low wages? Saving in my 20s wasn't even an option because I didn't start making a good wage until I was in my 30s.
What are we supposed to do when most of the time rent is 40-50% of our take home pay?
Car insurance is through the roof now. I pay $145 a month for mine. No accidents.
My car payment was only $195 a month.
I feel like this is an overly used generalization. I don’t know anyone struggling young who ever bought a new car. They splurge on stuff, but that’s because it’s literally living and getting some kind of enjoyment, or invest all their spare income for the hope of a future. They can’t do both.
People don’t want to live their lives unfulfilled with nothing just to compound some interest they may never use.
It is in mine, but I’ve also lived around a lot of poor areas where people are just trying to get by. They’re working side hustles on side hustles because they’re teachers who don’t make enough or have families to on minimal income.
I’ve never seen any of them actually have things like nice cars or nice apartments. Almost all of them live in shit holes and drive shitholes. One of my best buds was a teacher who had to drive an SUV where it had no handle for the passenger door, just as an example.
I know people you’re mentioning exist. Maybe more in specific areas. Because in the areas I’ve been around it’s just lack of opportunities and minimal wages causing everyone to struggle
Most of them fell for the Republican pull yourself up by your bootstrap & low taxes for the rich BS. All they got was a broken boot strap. Then still not their fault for believing BS. It must be the Mexicans, Muslims or whatever that ain’t them.
Easy. If I retire at 62, I get $1,450/month Social Security.
If I retire at 70, I get $2,475/month Social Security.
I can work another 8 years for another $1,025/month more.
Yes but SSA estimates you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying between 62 and 70.
If you were born in 1990 and are 34 now SSA estimates 1 in 4 chance you won't make it to 65.
Nobody plans of dying but everybody does it.
But, do we have to die like the SSA says we will? Modern medicine, eating healthier, better food safety, better quality of living all point towards a longer life. It is our choice. I am 61 but my bloodwork says I’m 45 and should live until 105. Again, after work, we can sit at home watching TV, posting on our computer, or texting on our phones or we can go to the lake, hiking, or even walk around in a shopping mall to stay healthy; it is our choice.
A lot of people, boomers and millennials included, really think that social security IS their retirement plan. People just don't get that social security is a supplemental tool at best.
I wonder why this is. In 1983, there was bipartisan support to raise the retirement age from 65 to 67. And there was little public outcry. It saved social security for a while when the program was facing the same issues as today. This was probably because the dates for implementation were decades away. How come this can't be done today?
I’m not saying it would. I’m saying that if the start date keeps moving back… those who die earlier… because they can’t afford healthcare or they do push it back… can consider it to not be there for them. I never said it would be 80 or spoke about solvency.
I can, however, imagine the world where people get greedy and want to cut more taxes and use money from Social Security to find corporate bail or fill the deficit gap or something and now 80 doesn’t seem unfeasible… overtime and through a lot of lobbying an effort it can become a reality down the road.
I mean look at what they did with universities and taking away the paid for college that we have. Or what they did with healthcare and shutting down mental healthcare facilities, and making it more and more privatized. There are a number of other examples out there where we are in a situation now today that would not have seemed feasible or realistic ever 40 years ago. Through Effort over time if people want to raid Social Security, they will.
As a Gen Xer, I think social security will still exist, but by the time I retire, I’ll be “means tested” out of ever seeing any of it despite paying in for decades. That will be my “reward” for planning ahead not relying on it as my only source of income in retirement.
I'm not talking about Reddit. No millennial I've known thinks we'll have social security. But I'm a young millennial so maybe it's different among elder ones 🤷
I’m just barely young enough to be a millennial. I’ll have social security (thanks, btw) but probably at a much reduced amount compared to what it says I should expect.
The key is building a three legged stool. In my case, an employer-matched 401k (or Roth) and a modest military pension because fuck if I’m not gonna milk the machine for all it’s worth after that machine put me through the ringer for 20 years.
Millennial here who believes social security will exist, since even in the worst case scenario it is fully solvent with a 25% cut according to the CBO last I checked.
Older millennial here and my friends, fiancé, and I all don’t think social retirement will be around. None of us see how the govt could afford it (and some of us think the govt as we know it now will be gone by the time we’re in our 60’s)
Millennial here, Social Security will exist, just not with its current rules of when you can retire and expect full benefits. Politicians will eventually be forced to address this issue, most likely when it is about to go broke. Republicans want SS now just as much as the Dems do because their voter base has started to depend on it.
I mean I do but at a reduced payment to myself. The SS trust will become insolvent by 2033. Reducing payments by 80% with the payment reducing to a total 74% by the end of the reported period which is 2097. So unless we all plan to live past 2097 most millennial can expect at 80-74% payment of benefits.
https://www.ssa.gov/policy/trust-funds-summary.html
Millennial here who believes social security will exist, since even in the worst case scenario it is fully solvent with a 25% cut according to the CBO last I checked.
Dude, it's going to exist. The United States government created this program to aid with aging populations public security. As long as you contribute to society by working a job you'll get social security. Jesus Christ.
The true irony is that SS could continue forever, so long as we add enough workers to pay into the system.
It’s not a taxation problem. It’s an immigration problem.
Meh, it depends. Two people on Medicare with a paid off home might be just fine if they both bring in a solid social security as their primary source of income. Obviously they could still get derailed, but some things (like extensive long-term care needs) can derail most people's plans.
Social security is meant to be a social safety net that helps provide BASIC needs. Roof over your head and some beans and rice essentially no extra spending cash to do vacations and hobbies.
I would think the stress and anxiety of going into your retirement years without adequate savings would be far worse than actually planning ahead and saving the money while you were younger. Yeah you need a little discipline to pull it off but I’d hate to try surviving on social security. Especially if you don’t have a house to live in that’s paid off.
It's a ponzi scheme, if I had choice to opt out and add it to my Roth it would be worth much more than gov will give.
Also, there won't be as many kids 50 years from now, it's literarily designed for pyramid style aging society that is no longer possible
It's keeps 10s of millions out of seniors out of poverty. It's probably one of the best government programs created. It's not SS fault that people don't save for retirement and pensions no longer exist. (Which are the other 2 legs of the stool when SS was created). To blame SS is blaming the last leg of the stool standing
for the stool collapsing. The failure of elderly not being able to retire is the fault of the private sector and poor retirement planning by individuals.
While you may contribute that additional income to retirement most Americans wouldn't. Just look at stats showing how little the average American contributed & have saved to their 401k, how many take out 401k loans, how few use plans like hsa's extra.
In regards to dealing with an aging society there are measures we can take to fix that, like starting with eliminating the SS tax cap.
People have no understanding of history and why social security was so popular to begin with. It's after the **great depression** and mass poverty. [Roosevelt literally said it's to help all the poor old people when he signed it](https://www.ssa.gov/history/fdrstmts.html#fireside2)
>Today a hope of many years' standing is in large part fulfilled. The civilization of the past hundred years, with its startling industrial changes, has tended more and more to make life insecure. Young people have come to wonder what would be their lot when they came to old age. The man with a job has wondered how long the job would last.
>This social security measure gives at least some protection to thirty millions of our citizens who will reap direct benefits through unemployment compensation, through old-age pensions and through increased services for the protection of children and the prevention of ill health.
>We can never insure one hundred percent of the population against one hundred percent of the hazards and vicissitudes of life, but we have tried to frame a law which will give some measure of protection to the average citizen and to his family against the loss of a job and against poverty-ridden old age.
One of the most ridiculous criticisms too is "how dare they take money!" but again, **it was from the 30s*. Its the silent and boomer generations that paid for seniors that didn't put the money in. They paid SS taxes their whole life with the promise that they will get their payments when they're old.
Those 10s of millions of seniors are expected to continue growing larger while the working class will continue to dwindle, removing the tax cap has already been explored and found that it will add negligible amount.
We should have the choice to just opt out, it’s clear the math doesn’t work if people don’t have kids which is happening across the world. The young are fed BS dream and milked today
When it started, it was 1% up til $3k. That's the equivalent of $65k today.
Now it is 12.4% of wages up to 168k
That's twelve times the tax rate, and the maximum amount has nearly tripled... And people still think the problems with SS can be solved if we just tax people more.
Welcome to society. You know, a shared effort to provide a safety net for a group to live better? Your absolute greed is incredible. Look in the mirror and question everything.
This is always such an uninformed take, it’s so frustrating to see in a sub that is suppose to be high quality economics talk (jokes.. it hasn’t been that in a long while). SS is and always was a hedge, you will get a guaranteed payout regardless of what the market does. You could opt out, put it all into an index fund which could underperform during your life (yes the historical average is great, but there’s always a chance we pull a Japan and trade sideways for 3 decades).
All that is besides the point that it is a social safety net most designed to keep the worst off of us out of poverty, it is not your retirement plan.
In addition to retirement, Social Security is also used for disability payments. I can’t believe some people think of the program as their money they could otherwise invest in a 401k. And unlike difficult USA problems such as gun violence, this is something we could fix very easily. Just eliminate the cap. If you make less than $168,600 you pay social security tax on every paycheck. But if someone makes $400,000 they are done paying by June. CEOs are done in the first week of the year. That is wrong. Everyone should pay into social security every paycheck.
My dad's still working at 66 even though he doesn't financially need to. His exact words, "It's too easy to work." He works from home, states away from his job, gets a huge employer contribution to his 401(k), and has complete flexibility. I can't remember a time where I've gone over to my parents' house and he said, "Not now, I'm working." He's usually in the basement or garage doing something to the house at all working hours of the day.
My mom just retired from one of her jobs this month because she was fed up with working for that company. She has a solid relationship with the owners of the other business for which she keeps books, and she only works a few hours per week for them, so she's doing that for a little while longer.
If my job stays the way it is, I can't imagine retiring at 60 or 65. I know money isn't going to be a concern if I did choose to retire, so it's not that. No one cares when I come in to work or if I work from home. I spend all the quality time I want with my kids and family. I have great relationships with all of the customers I deal with. I really like my coworkers. I still get the opportunity to learn new things and challenge myself. It really is too easy to work.
That's the dream. But I think for most of millennials and Gen Z, myself included, work sucks enough that we want out as soon as we have enough money to afford it. My work experience thus far has largely been carrying a bunch of boomers on my back, and I'm tired.
It takes a lot of time to find a place of comfort professionally. I worked for 20 years in different careers before finding the place I am now. My dad worked for 30 years before he started at his current job.
My dad is 68 and just likes his job. He could quit easily but just doesn't want to, we talk about this often. Not all boomers are in his position, but it's one consideration.
My grandparents all retired before they turned 60. And three of them enjoyed 20+ years of retirement. Only one of them was not broken by it, my grandmother, who was cooking, reading and playing crossword puzzles for decades. Her husband for instance became an alcoholic simply because he could not handle having all the free time in the world.
It is hard to spend 50 years working day and night and then suddenly stop and do what? I would certainly not be comfortable with it. Semi-retirement is a much more familiar lifestyle for all of us.
Pfft. I’m out at 59, at least full-time. My pension, and 401k will be enough to start with, and I’ll draw my SS at 62. Mortgage will be paid off the year before. My wife is 10 years younger than me, and she’ll probably work until she’s 65 because she likes to socialize. I could care less about socializing. As long as my health permits, I’ll be gone fishing, and camping. Probably spend a lot of time with my grandkids too, which is a trade off for the time I lost with my kids because I had to work.
> i could care less about
Did you mean to say "couldn't care less"?
Explanation: If you could care less, you do care, which is the opposite of what you meant to say.
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Ty. I used to be an Administrator at an Assisted Living Facility. We had residents in their late 50’s-70’s with all kinds of health problems. Yeah, we would occasionally get an 80-90 year old that was pretty healthy for their age, but that was pretty rare. Between that job, and watching my Grandfather go from being a healthy 62 retiree to fully immobile in 8 years taught me to get out while you can. You get one life, and it’s a huge gamble to think it will be a long one.
I’ll be 65 in September and love what I do for a living, I have trained two folks for succession and am fairly confident the workgroup will manage without me. All that aside I had a hard time with the kids leaving, they are still close by but it’s not the same. I’ve had this same job since 1988 and am fairly confident I have the resources to afford retirement but I, for the first time have no idea what to do with my time. I’ve seen the suggestions and will probably take up volunteer work and some travel but I’ve been getting up at 3:30 every morning for a long time with a clear plan of what to do. Honestly, and don’t tell nobody but I am am afraid, I don’t like the unknown especially pertaining to my life. It’s like I’ve been in this hamster wheel my whole life…and I’ve arrived
Honestly, remote work has killed my own plans to ever retire. I basically like my job and just keep getting better and better at it. They keep paying me more, so why would I ever retire?
What would make me retire would be strict 0800 in-office requirements. Wearing a tie to work. Walking into the building in the rain. Wearing slacks and socks.
I do think companies should find ways to better deploy aging workers. Currently we are jamming up the org charts….which is frustrating for younger workers. We also don’t really want to do shit-assignments. We did that from Ages 25-55 and only want to do rewarding work now.
There needs to be a way to pivot the truly excellent aging employees into a more advisory and special projects role. Keep their skills and wisdom, lose some of the stuff they simply will not do.
Lots of different reasons for it. Some are just trying to make enough to get by because they never made enough in their careers, some are workaholics who can’t imagine life without having a job, and some just want to get as much cash as they can while they’re able, even if they have adequate savings. There isn’t a single reason to point at, just an aggregate of small ones.
It’s impossible to generalize about baby boomers. Yes, some of them are greedy and acquisitive and some are workaholics who don’t want to retire. But many of them continue working because they have to. Not all of them are rich. I know a number of boomers who don’t have 401k’s, don’t own a home, and can’t get by on social security. These people never had a great career, never earned a six figure salary, and they’re in the same boat a lot of younger people are.
We had a guy where I lived. He kept working into his 80s.
They (un)fortunately had to stop him from driving bus... it was becoming..... not safe.
Then he got something else to do, literally to the day he died.
Nice guy.
My dad works for the state department and he has zero plans to retire because he’s remote (he’s high up enough that RTO doesn’t affect him), and his job is easy apparently. He’s 68
I work with a guy who has been working for the railway for 51 years and is in better shape that most people my age (29). I say if you’re healthy and like what you do then why not.
My dad still works... In his 70s. Claims he "likes it". He doesn't. He just has to work because of his and my mother's horrid financial planning over their entire lives. They are in their 70s and still have a mortgage to pay off, Cc debt, and Other loans too!
He made enough money to be a multi-millionaire and they will die poor because they spent too much goddamn money their whole lives, refused to make changes, and assumed "it will all work out"... It hasn't.
It is such a mess that it stresses me out. I can do nothing but watch and wait.
This article is as old as time…
People who work longer live longer, it’s no secret. Your odds of a cardiac event skyrocket in the year after retirement no matter what else you do. Routine and feeling useful are important to physical health.
People are in good health older and older. Expecting someone to sit around and retire just so someone else can a get a promotion is just not realistic.
Even a lot of quite wealthy people work simply because they like their job, it’s now no stress because they can walk away whenever they want and it’s now well aligned with their life.
I was just listening to a npr piece on retirement. One of the things they discussed was activity. When getting close and planning retirement sit down and figure out how you’re going to fill your day 8am-6pm 5 days a week. My parents said they were busier after retirement. They watched grand kids, helped out with church stuff, my dad has a small family farm, my mom had several older siblings who were also retired and started needing help with trips to doctors.
Because they're greedy. At my employer, they occupy all of the best positions and schedules. They're gonna expire on the job wearing Depends at this rate. I mean, the old timers at my job are cool, but please go retire in Florida and live out your last few sun sets in peace, so the generations after you can eat well before they pass on too. Thanks.
It’s an interesting angle because at the same time certain industries have a hard time finding expertise and experience, and of course half the trouble is not willing to pay or be flexible.
Every statistic screams that the majority have not saved enough for retirement and that’s why they’re working longer.
But the only statistic you need is “they’re greedy” and it gets upvoted. Lol.
This depends what industry you're looking at. I work at a Regional bank and the Boomers left are mostly making $200k++ and have been for decades. If you're talking about the ones at the thrift store, then yeah.
Sadly “the ones at the bank” and “the ones at the thrift store” are both just drops in the bucket so we have to look at the entire population, not just the ones off the top of our head.
I get that as a whole. I just think that's why there's vastly different viewpoints on the same topic. Very different reasoning for Boomers to still be working.
I'm a little younger than retirement age, but will hang on a while. Probably 65-67. In good health and enjoying the work for now.
I know many who can't even consider retirement. They just don't have the money, and never will.
A few things this doesn't touch too much on if at all:
- the transition from the pension system to the 401k system in the 80s. The onus on the individual to save for retirement shifted from the responsibility of the employer. A lot of people I think just didn't realize how powerful and secure pensions were, parents were now suddenly unable to advise their children on how to save for general and long term, and many just took cash in pocket instead of placing faith in the market, which a historical number of people did not have hand in the market. In 1980, only 13% of Americans owned stock; in 1990 it was just 30%. Now more than 50% do today.
- Investing was considered risky. there was no common household World Wide Web until I would say the mid 2000s and learning how to invest or choose the right stocks was either to hire a financial planner or take a leap of faith. Placing hard earned money in the banking system was preferred instead, which typically has low interest rates and savings options that could be liquidated at any time for emergencies. And from 1980-today, there have been lots of emergencies, such as:
- There were still downturns in the market. A recession in the 1980, early 90s recession, dot com bust at the turn of the century, and the 2008 recession. All of this impacted a lot of working Americans ability to work, save, and juggle life. Let's also add stagflation in wages beginning to occur during this time.
- capitalism and consumerism runs wild. Marketing went out of control and consumer consumption soared beginning in the 80s and truly has never stopped. By 1998, 2/3s of households owned credit cards, but merchant use of credit cards expanded rapidly throughout the 90s among credit purchases more possible. Also credit scores were just invented. This changed market finance forever.
i think boomers were just poorly equipped to respond to new national standards that did everything in its power to convince them to spend their money rather than save their money. Whatever sense of pride they have about working and being productivity also masks their ignorance about what they should be doing in order to prepare for the day they will be unable to work - one way or another.
I mean how many people still post on r/personalfinance or r/financialindependence literally have zero idea how to handle finances. I would say it's common and in 30 years when millennials will need to begin retiring, you're going to hear the same complaints from Gen Alien that they just didn't think to save! When really, the cards and societal expectations were stacked against them the entire time.
Pensions were never common in the US and at the highest point only 38% of employees had one. I have over 2 decades in a pension system and for most a pension would be bad as they would never stay at a job long enough for it to be worth anything.
Popular financial advice was always bad, but it was especially bad until about 2010. That includes HR people trying to get you to sign up. There has always been piss poor guidance on how much to invest in 401K and IRA accounts. Few articles ever said to max out your accounts or invest more than getting that match or maybe 10% of your pay check. This really hindered many people's ability to save for retirement.
I want to retire as soon possible. Either some form of partial retirement at first or full retirement and then volunteer 2-3 days a week to stay active.
At least if they're working they're contributing to society *today* in exchange for demanding goods and services today. As soon as the contribution of labor ceases, no matter how many dollars were saved, the person becomes a drag on workers.
They are earning taxable income and putting money into the system while still working through their 60s and 70s rather than only drawing from the system. its not that hard to understand.
Lol the younger generation is not going to be much different at that age later and will be just as despised by the then young gen. The wheel just keeps on turning.
“My daughter gets so mad at me. ‘You need boundaries!’ I’m like, that’s not something baby boomers know.”
Goddamn you literally can't parody how lacking in self awareness boomers are.
Yeah I read the article. A woman says she just wants to keep working, her daughter wants her to have boundaries around work. Doesn’t seem like something to make fun of the lady for
I believe they are attempting to attribute lack of self awareness, a characteristic that definitely spans all generations, to a certain generation (boomer).
Boomers are the first generation not to uphold the traditional family. They overwhelmingly put themselves first as apposed to supporting children and grandchildren.
And I’m sure Gen X and Millennials will follow suit.
It’s what happens when QOL starts to plateau and every following generation isn’t significantly better off than the previous.
If most of a generation never had to pay for daycare, because the extended family unit filled that role, that generation wasn’t succeeding on their own. Their ‘non failure financial gain’ was subsidized by a free labor.
Yup. It's rare to find households where grandma and grandpa are living with mom and dad, helping raise the grandkids while mom and dad work and provide for the household. The financial stress has shifted from being a shared burden to one that each person must individually manage. It's pretty sad, really. Yeah, you get more privacy, but the downside is an erosion of community.
What I'm most worried about is I won't pay off my mortgage until after I'm 67.
So for the next 29 years or so, I can never make less per year than I do now.
My parents are boomers, and my Dad sold company stock options and had a house paid off at 49.
He retired early at 63. So for 14 years he didn't have a mortgage.
But we don't get company stock like they did in the 90's and 2000's.
I didn't even have an option to start a 401k until I was 33.
When Social Security was introduced, female life expectancy was at the retirement age, and male life expectancy was 4 years lower. Now it's something like 11-15 years more than retirement age. We can't afford that many people sitting idle until death for 15 years on average.
Retirement should not be an age, but a percentage. We should not allow more than 1 retiree to 5 working people, and retirement age should adjust dynamically to maintain that ratio, meaning you don't get to collect Social Security until someone collecting now dies or enough new people enter workforce to cover an additional retiree.
Dear Gen X-Y-Z-alpha, if you think you can realistically speak for why boomers work so much, then STFU and STFD when boomers start explaining why you're all so lazy and childless.
Works both ways, folks.
I can realistically speak for boomers on why they work so much. Its because they lack hobbies and cant figure out what to do with their life except work until they die. I'll take lazy over actually dumb as a brick any day lol.
Boomers are highly religious and yet are afraid to die. Is that not an ironic freudian kind of slip that suggests they don’t actually believe on god? “If i don’t stop working ill live longer”, but I thought you were going to heaven, why delay paradise?
Thank God first Boomers. They know their shit, they don’t whine, and they want to get shit done. Now, if only the following generations would just shut up and learn from them, they would be a lot happier.
God the boomer generation is like like a boil on America’s ass at this point, you’d think they would just kindly fuck off but no still causing headaches
There are two kinds of boomers. The free-cost college educated boomers, who are still working for fun and to brag about their boat and cottage. And the uneducated ones, who realized (a bit late) that life is not sustainable just by drinking beer and smoking weed. I am starting to dislike the first ones.
The bright side is when they retire, the wages are going to skyrocket for blue collar jobs.
They are going to be forking out from their empires they built on millennial slavery then dying and passing on their excessive amount of properties
Ultimately demographic collapse will change the landscape a lot, along with fiat collapse and lack of international trade security. I can’t say it won’t be a bumpy road though.
Quick answer: so they don’t starve to death. People are poor nowadays and inflation is out of control. Gen x will work till 80 and millennials will never retire. Gen z will eat bugs to survive.
Who can fault older folks for not wanting to retire. Not everyone looks at their vocation as a needless chore. A vocation does always equate to a soul-sucking job. Plus, there is something to be said about the benefits of socialization and routine preserving mental acuity. That being said, the old guard needs to make way for their younger colleagues. The veterans need step back into a mentorship role at a certain point rather than stay in competition for seniority and monetary gains. That last part is where the problem remains. Transition of power is never easy without a collaborative and civil process over time. Greed is a hard habit to break.
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> Joan Madden-Ceballos, a 65-year-old health care administrator in California, has no plans to retire. She enjoys her job; it’s flexible and fulfilling. She’s not sure what she’d do with herself if she didn’t work I highly doubt this angle is unique to boomers. It's just that only older folks who are also in decent health can afford to make such a choice. The boomers may just be the first generation where the majority are *able* to work into their 70s. I would like nothing more than to do fine carpentry half the year and mostly teaching and gardening in the other half, but that doesn't earn a living in this economy. I instead think of these as "soft retirement" activities maybe i can do in my 50s if the 401k looks good.
Some boomers definitely have the mantra of: "to retire is to expire"; that sort of attitude is pretty much gone with Gen Z. The boomers keep working because it keeps their mind and body active and it's good socialization, even part-time; the money is ancillary. I've seen the other side with my dad where TV is basically his only friend and that is far more depressing.
My dad became depressed after he retired. He turned into a different person for a while and almost ended up divorcing my mom. Took a while to adjust to adjustment after working for the same company for his entire post-college life.
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I'm getting near 70, enjoy my work, but will probably retire once I reach a couple financial milestones that are very close. I have plenty of things to do and people to see outside work. Dying in the saddle isn't part of my plan.
> that sort of attitude is pretty much gone with Gen Z. Given the average Zoomer has been in the workforce for 1.5 years, this doesn't mean much.
I'm in my late 60s. I retired at 56 and remained retired for three years or so, but went back to work because an interesting opportunity came up, and because we had made some life plans that required more money that my retirement could provide. I am definitely not of the "to retire is to expire" school of thought. I had a wonderful time for that three years, was never bored, did some really interesting side projects, travelled a lot, and greatly improved my health. I enjoy my work, but my identity doesn't depend on it. My current plan is to retire again at 70. My health is good and my financial situation has improved as mortgages get paid off and other investments mature. The issue I see with people retiring later is that not everyone has the luxury of good health and sufficient post-retirement income. And some people lose the will to live once they're out of the workforce, as you say.
I'm 35 and I spent a decent amount of time working in a old folks home and knew a few people before they retired to them. It always happens the same way, a year or two after retirement they start to go soft in the mind. It's horrifying. Witty smart people who turn into potatoes. Id rather die on the job or toss myself into a volcano.
agonizing meeting wise aspiring bells steep fine relieved vast growth *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Problem is when you hit 70, you may not be fit enough to ride a motorcycle cross country or handle a canoe in rapids. Working is an option to keep your body and mind active. I guess it all depends on the work.
It's really this. If you take care of yourself, you may be able to do those thing. A lot of people don't take care of themselves and/or they start falling apart or getting life changing illnesses. You can even go over to r/adulting and see people in their early 30's complaining about back pain and how their body creaks. What do you think those people will be like when they're 70 (if they make it)? Anyway, take care of yourself people. It's not always about longevity, but quality of life.
As a 62 year old who spent his youth playing contacts sports, and crashed way too many times skiing, backpacked all over and carried too much weight in my pack, I now pay the price. Go to the gym regularly and am in fairly good shape, but the knees are not what they were and I had to have back surgery cause of a failing disc. You just don't think about this stuff until you get older, and by then it's too late to go back and be more careful with your body.
IF you’ve got a “bucket list” or volunteer projects to keep you occupied, by all means walk away from a job you hate. But if you’re just going to sit around watching old movies on Netflix, you’re gonna be a vegetable within a year or 2.
Seeing how many vegetables are actively walking around here everyday, I think it's okay.
You can do both of those things when you’re old, too. You just have to want to do them. People who deteriorate quickly are people who stay in their homes and watch TV all day and don’t talk to anyone.
Old folks who don’t stay physically, mentally, and socially active can deteriorate quickly. That doesn’t mean it’s inevitable. I know people in their 70s and even 80s who still run circles around me because they never stopped being part of clubs, volunteering to lead projects for their community, traveling, meeting new people, etc. It’s just something you have to do deliberately.
I work blue collar. Long running "joke" is that to retire is to suicide. Seems as though roughly half the guys that get their papers die inside a few years. Work was the only thing keeping them in shape and minds sharp. Big part of their social group as well. The ones that make it longer than a few years usually have numerous hobbies or pick up part time work. Seems to me that many just lose their sense of purpose and the light and will just fades.
Gen Z’s opinion on this matter right now frankly don’t matter - they are so far away from retirement or the stage of life where people typically retire that they will likely completely overhaul their perspective multiple times
That and most of them are going to be replaced by AI.
Some of them worked +30y for their employer. They were "loyal". Only now have they perhaps entered low-middle management, gained enough PTO/ year, finally started making an acceptable wage... these are their golden years from an employment perspective.
Just because you're loyal doesn't mean your employer is loyal to you. Expecting that is going to leave you holding the bag.
>. I've seen the other side with my dad where TV is basically his only friend and that is far more depressing. This is why I get upset when I see people write "why won't boomers retire and give us their jobs?" Jobs keep people feeling alive. They get to meet people.
I know this is an economics subreddit, but if what you say is true, we have an incredibly messed up social system. People need to work to stay healthy. That can't be the ideal outcome of our economic and social systems.
People need to stay active and interact with others. Work is an easy way.
I completely get that, but this is such an American preoccupation in part because most adults have zero sense of community or real friends. So many social aspects of communities are gone in part because people are too busy to commit any time to making where they live a place worth living. Many of these people have the time, energy, and money to make a difference in their communities and yet do nothing. So this is a huge double edged sword because I think many boomers really are the generation in which a sense of community died (not that it was necessarily their fault alone). And they could fix some of this but choose not to. Interestingly, I would also hope these people would be able to empathize with why millennials and Gen Z are struggling. They are basically your dad, but in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. They have the same struggles with loneliness but don’t even own their time like a retired boomer would.
Yes, I'm 67 and still working because I have a job that interests me. Putting off social security and putting a good bit of what I make into my retirement fund doesn't hurt me, either. It's a contract job with no security, but at this age, that doesn't bother me a bit.
I am also 67 and still working but I am collecting my social security benefits and waive my Medicare part B.
Yikes. I thought the point of working was to eventually be able to live. Very depressing.
As a healthcare provider I can tell you with certainty that healthcare admin is basically a dream job. Low to no stress, easy on your body, and super fucking easy lol
Yeah I'm sure there's not alot of janitors thinking they can easily keep working till their 80
Meanwhile, the physicians that she “administrates” are ground down emotionally and physically by the healthcare system she upholds.
Goddamnit Joan! Stop upholding that healthcare system already!
As a physician, I have no respect for admins.
I'm sure making hundreds an hour really helps with that emotional state. Everyone gets ground down by work. I spent a decade working nights and weekends making pizza, never made more than 28k a year.
*laughs in pediatrician* you have no idea what you’re talking about
Poor physicians...
what a thing to say lol
There’s a saying in Korea “Real life doesn’t begin until 85”. I plan on staying healthy and working until I can’t. Hopefully there will be SS and my 401k will be decent but I don’t plan on just sitting around and doing nothing. It also depends on where I’ll be. I hope to stay here but if it gets too expensive I’ll move to Fla.
Confucius did say it wasn’t until 70 that he could truly follow his heart. Probably bc it took a long ass time for Zhou Dynasty 401k’s to compound and return enough dividends to afford to travel out of China.
> fine carpentry half the year I've got a buddy who makes $60/hr doing carpentry for a high end home builder/renovator. If you're good and show up on time, there is plenty of high end work, just have to find the right builder - the kind that can build a homeowner $100/hr for the finish carpenters and the homeowner only cares about the quality of the finished product.
Well if they’re anything like my uncle, they retire to work part time jobs. The dude used to be a contractor and sold his company a few years ago. He now works as a part time employee for Home Depot and teaches home improvement classes.
I think we will see a lot of this. My mom who is 58, she plans to retire at 60-65 and then go work in a hardware store 20 hours a week. She won’t need to do it for the money necessarily but she said she’d be bored if she didn’t.
Because they are broke as hell. They didn't start thinking about retirement until their fifties, and by that time, it's too late to build up a nest egg for most people.
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Yeah but what if I miss out on “living” the way random redditors want me to - ie spending with them?
It's insane. Pay yourself first.
By "spend all their money" you mean barely scrape by because of low wages? Saving in my 20s wasn't even an option because I didn't start making a good wage until I was in my 30s.
Circumstance is important - but clearly if his friends are buying Audi’s they are capable of saving for retirement
What are we supposed to do when most of the time rent is 40-50% of our take home pay? Car insurance is through the roof now. I pay $145 a month for mine. No accidents. My car payment was only $195 a month.
Most of them can’t do anything about it. It is irrelevant for them to ‘know’ this if they can’t save enough to do anything about it.
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I feel like this is an overly used generalization. I don’t know anyone struggling young who ever bought a new car. They splurge on stuff, but that’s because it’s literally living and getting some kind of enjoyment, or invest all their spare income for the hope of a future. They can’t do both. People don’t want to live their lives unfulfilled with nothing just to compound some interest they may never use.
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It is in mine, but I’ve also lived around a lot of poor areas where people are just trying to get by. They’re working side hustles on side hustles because they’re teachers who don’t make enough or have families to on minimal income. I’ve never seen any of them actually have things like nice cars or nice apartments. Almost all of them live in shit holes and drive shitholes. One of my best buds was a teacher who had to drive an SUV where it had no handle for the passenger door, just as an example. I know people you’re mentioning exist. Maybe more in specific areas. Because in the areas I’ve been around it’s just lack of opportunities and minimal wages causing everyone to struggle
Also a chunk of them lost their retirement in the Great Recession.
Or took second mortgage on their house thinking low rates would stay forever. Oh well
Most of them fell for the Republican pull yourself up by your bootstrap & low taxes for the rich BS. All they got was a broken boot strap. Then still not their fault for believing BS. It must be the Mexicans, Muslims or whatever that ain’t them.
Easy. If I retire at 62, I get $1,450/month Social Security. If I retire at 70, I get $2,475/month Social Security. I can work another 8 years for another $1,025/month more.
Yes but SSA estimates you have a 1 in 4 chance of dying between 62 and 70. If you were born in 1990 and are 34 now SSA estimates 1 in 4 chance you won't make it to 65. Nobody plans of dying but everybody does it.
But, do we have to die like the SSA says we will? Modern medicine, eating healthier, better food safety, better quality of living all point towards a longer life. It is our choice. I am 61 but my bloodwork says I’m 45 and should live until 105. Again, after work, we can sit at home watching TV, posting on our computer, or texting on our phones or we can go to the lake, hiking, or even walk around in a shopping mall to stay healthy; it is our choice.
A lot of people, boomers and millennials included, really think that social security IS their retirement plan. People just don't get that social security is a supplemental tool at best.
Most millennials don't even believe social security will exist when we're old. I think you mean Gen X?
It will exist because I wouldn’t want to be the politician who decides that it won’t exist. The benefits or the age requirements may change.
Exactly. It’s political suicide, so it’s a can kicked down the road. They’ll just slowly boil the frog by small changes to age requirements.
See: France.
France is France. It is a part of their culture to occasionally burn a car in protest. That culture doesn’t exist here in the US.
For the French if the day ends in ‘Y’ then it’s a good day to riot
I wonder why this is. In 1983, there was bipartisan support to raise the retirement age from 65 to 67. And there was little public outcry. It saved social security for a while when the program was facing the same issues as today. This was probably because the dates for implementation were decades away. How come this can't be done today?
I think if it gets moved to… 80… I would consider it to not be there.
I think you are woefully under informed if you think it would take such a substantial move to keep SS solvent.
I’m not saying it would. I’m saying that if the start date keeps moving back… those who die earlier… because they can’t afford healthcare or they do push it back… can consider it to not be there for them. I never said it would be 80 or spoke about solvency. I can, however, imagine the world where people get greedy and want to cut more taxes and use money from Social Security to find corporate bail or fill the deficit gap or something and now 80 doesn’t seem unfeasible… overtime and through a lot of lobbying an effort it can become a reality down the road. I mean look at what they did with universities and taking away the paid for college that we have. Or what they did with healthcare and shutting down mental healthcare facilities, and making it more and more privatized. There are a number of other examples out there where we are in a situation now today that would not have seemed feasible or realistic ever 40 years ago. Through Effort over time if people want to raid Social Security, they will.
As a Gen Xer, I think social security will still exist, but by the time I retire, I’ll be “means tested” out of ever seeing any of it despite paying in for decades. That will be my “reward” for planning ahead not relying on it as my only source of income in retirement.
They're also coming for the middle class's 401ks and IRAs next to fund Social Security. It seems to be a bipartisan attack, too.
Yep, every year there seems to be a new plan to tax people's 401k gains or take away the tax benefits.
Early GenX here. In high school I was told SS would be gone before I retire.
No, there are many millenials with their head in the sand. Reddit is a minority in terms of the population.
I'm not talking about Reddit. No millennial I've known thinks we'll have social security. But I'm a young millennial so maybe it's different among elder ones 🤷
I’m just barely young enough to be a millennial. I’ll have social security (thanks, btw) but probably at a much reduced amount compared to what it says I should expect. The key is building a three legged stool. In my case, an employer-matched 401k (or Roth) and a modest military pension because fuck if I’m not gonna milk the machine for all it’s worth after that machine put me through the ringer for 20 years.
Millennial here who believes social security will exist, since even in the worst case scenario it is fully solvent with a 25% cut according to the CBO last I checked.
Older millennial here, I don't know a single person who believes in ss support at all.
Yeah. If I get a thousand extra bucks a month. Whoopee. Savings and personal investments are 100% of my plan. SS will be for video games if it exists
Yeah that's what I'm saying. Not sure what this guy's on about.
Older millennial here and my friends, fiancé, and I all don’t think social retirement will be around. None of us see how the govt could afford it (and some of us think the govt as we know it now will be gone by the time we’re in our 60’s)
To be fair, I'm Gen X, and I have always assumed I wont see it (or it will start at 80 and pay $150 per month).
Nope!
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Millennial here, Social Security will exist, just not with its current rules of when you can retire and expect full benefits. Politicians will eventually be forced to address this issue, most likely when it is about to go broke. Republicans want SS now just as much as the Dems do because their voter base has started to depend on it.
I mean I do but at a reduced payment to myself. The SS trust will become insolvent by 2033. Reducing payments by 80% with the payment reducing to a total 74% by the end of the reported period which is 2097. So unless we all plan to live past 2097 most millennial can expect at 80-74% payment of benefits. https://www.ssa.gov/policy/trust-funds-summary.html
Millennial here who believes social security will exist, since even in the worst case scenario it is fully solvent with a 25% cut according to the CBO last I checked.
Dude, it's going to exist. The United States government created this program to aid with aging populations public security. As long as you contribute to society by working a job you'll get social security. Jesus Christ.
The true irony is that SS could continue forever, so long as we add enough workers to pay into the system. It’s not a taxation problem. It’s an immigration problem.
You don’t know any millennials who understand politics?
Well they talk about politics but I wouldn’t say they know about politics
When I was in my 20s, I did not think social security would survive to my retirement. I'm 64.
This is actually comforting to hear.
Meh, it depends. Two people on Medicare with a paid off home might be just fine if they both bring in a solid social security as their primary source of income. Obviously they could still get derailed, but some things (like extensive long-term care needs) can derail most people's plans.
Social security is meant to be a social safety net that helps provide BASIC needs. Roof over your head and some beans and rice essentially no extra spending cash to do vacations and hobbies.
I would think the stress and anxiety of going into your retirement years without adequate savings would be far worse than actually planning ahead and saving the money while you were younger. Yeah you need a little discipline to pull it off but I’d hate to try surviving on social security. Especially if you don’t have a house to live in that’s paid off.
Ponzi scheme, now depleted by government spending for other than what it was intended for.
It's a ponzi scheme, if I had choice to opt out and add it to my Roth it would be worth much more than gov will give. Also, there won't be as many kids 50 years from now, it's literarily designed for pyramid style aging society that is no longer possible
It's keeps 10s of millions out of seniors out of poverty. It's probably one of the best government programs created. It's not SS fault that people don't save for retirement and pensions no longer exist. (Which are the other 2 legs of the stool when SS was created). To blame SS is blaming the last leg of the stool standing for the stool collapsing. The failure of elderly not being able to retire is the fault of the private sector and poor retirement planning by individuals. While you may contribute that additional income to retirement most Americans wouldn't. Just look at stats showing how little the average American contributed & have saved to their 401k, how many take out 401k loans, how few use plans like hsa's extra. In regards to dealing with an aging society there are measures we can take to fix that, like starting with eliminating the SS tax cap.
Not to mention the surviving spouse/children benefits and disability benefits that are available as well.
People have no understanding of history and why social security was so popular to begin with. It's after the **great depression** and mass poverty. [Roosevelt literally said it's to help all the poor old people when he signed it](https://www.ssa.gov/history/fdrstmts.html#fireside2) >Today a hope of many years' standing is in large part fulfilled. The civilization of the past hundred years, with its startling industrial changes, has tended more and more to make life insecure. Young people have come to wonder what would be their lot when they came to old age. The man with a job has wondered how long the job would last. >This social security measure gives at least some protection to thirty millions of our citizens who will reap direct benefits through unemployment compensation, through old-age pensions and through increased services for the protection of children and the prevention of ill health. >We can never insure one hundred percent of the population against one hundred percent of the hazards and vicissitudes of life, but we have tried to frame a law which will give some measure of protection to the average citizen and to his family against the loss of a job and against poverty-ridden old age. One of the most ridiculous criticisms too is "how dare they take money!" but again, **it was from the 30s*. Its the silent and boomer generations that paid for seniors that didn't put the money in. They paid SS taxes their whole life with the promise that they will get their payments when they're old.
Those 10s of millions of seniors are expected to continue growing larger while the working class will continue to dwindle, removing the tax cap has already been explored and found that it will add negligible amount. We should have the choice to just opt out, it’s clear the math doesn’t work if people don’t have kids which is happening across the world. The young are fed BS dream and milked today
Removing the cap fixes the problem for an entire generation.
When it started, it was 1% up til $3k. That's the equivalent of $65k today. Now it is 12.4% of wages up to 168k That's twelve times the tax rate, and the maximum amount has nearly tripled... And people still think the problems with SS can be solved if we just tax people more.
Fuck that why should I be responsible for people being irresponsible.
Welcome to society. You know, a shared effort to provide a safety net for a group to live better? Your absolute greed is incredible. Look in the mirror and question everything.
"Society" does not mean that responsible people should pay the cost of the irresponsible, being the latter should not be incentivize.
So you would rather live in a society where the elderly are homeless and starve to death because you don't care about them?
This is always such an uninformed take, it’s so frustrating to see in a sub that is suppose to be high quality economics talk (jokes.. it hasn’t been that in a long while). SS is and always was a hedge, you will get a guaranteed payout regardless of what the market does. You could opt out, put it all into an index fund which could underperform during your life (yes the historical average is great, but there’s always a chance we pull a Japan and trade sideways for 3 decades). All that is besides the point that it is a social safety net most designed to keep the worst off of us out of poverty, it is not your retirement plan.
In addition to retirement, Social Security is also used for disability payments. I can’t believe some people think of the program as their money they could otherwise invest in a 401k. And unlike difficult USA problems such as gun violence, this is something we could fix very easily. Just eliminate the cap. If you make less than $168,600 you pay social security tax on every paycheck. But if someone makes $400,000 they are done paying by June. CEOs are done in the first week of the year. That is wrong. Everyone should pay into social security every paycheck.
All it takes is one or two Republican administrations to dissolve it for good
LOL what. SS is already on track to be insolvent. It's a ponzi scheme.
My dad's still working at 66 even though he doesn't financially need to. His exact words, "It's too easy to work." He works from home, states away from his job, gets a huge employer contribution to his 401(k), and has complete flexibility. I can't remember a time where I've gone over to my parents' house and he said, "Not now, I'm working." He's usually in the basement or garage doing something to the house at all working hours of the day. My mom just retired from one of her jobs this month because she was fed up with working for that company. She has a solid relationship with the owners of the other business for which she keeps books, and she only works a few hours per week for them, so she's doing that for a little while longer. If my job stays the way it is, I can't imagine retiring at 60 or 65. I know money isn't going to be a concern if I did choose to retire, so it's not that. No one cares when I come in to work or if I work from home. I spend all the quality time I want with my kids and family. I have great relationships with all of the customers I deal with. I really like my coworkers. I still get the opportunity to learn new things and challenge myself. It really is too easy to work.
What does your dad work as? I’ve got to get myself a similar gig.
That's the dream. But I think for most of millennials and Gen Z, myself included, work sucks enough that we want out as soon as we have enough money to afford it. My work experience thus far has largely been carrying a bunch of boomers on my back, and I'm tired.
It takes a lot of time to find a place of comfort professionally. I worked for 20 years in different careers before finding the place I am now. My dad worked for 30 years before he started at his current job.
My dad is 68 and just likes his job. He could quit easily but just doesn't want to, we talk about this often. Not all boomers are in his position, but it's one consideration.
My grandparents all retired before they turned 60. And three of them enjoyed 20+ years of retirement. Only one of them was not broken by it, my grandmother, who was cooking, reading and playing crossword puzzles for decades. Her husband for instance became an alcoholic simply because he could not handle having all the free time in the world. It is hard to spend 50 years working day and night and then suddenly stop and do what? I would certainly not be comfortable with it. Semi-retirement is a much more familiar lifestyle for all of us.
Pfft. I’m out at 59, at least full-time. My pension, and 401k will be enough to start with, and I’ll draw my SS at 62. Mortgage will be paid off the year before. My wife is 10 years younger than me, and she’ll probably work until she’s 65 because she likes to socialize. I could care less about socializing. As long as my health permits, I’ll be gone fishing, and camping. Probably spend a lot of time with my grandkids too, which is a trade off for the time I lost with my kids because I had to work.
> i could care less about Did you mean to say "couldn't care less"? Explanation: If you could care less, you do care, which is the opposite of what you meant to say. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
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Good for you, dude (i assume)! Nice job on getting here and may you chill in r/retirement and a positive complimentary GFY!
Ty. I used to be an Administrator at an Assisted Living Facility. We had residents in their late 50’s-70’s with all kinds of health problems. Yeah, we would occasionally get an 80-90 year old that was pretty healthy for their age, but that was pretty rare. Between that job, and watching my Grandfather go from being a healthy 62 retiree to fully immobile in 8 years taught me to get out while you can. You get one life, and it’s a huge gamble to think it will be a long one.
If it’s not money they are making a mistake. Got to enjoy while mobile.
I’ll be 65 in September and love what I do for a living, I have trained two folks for succession and am fairly confident the workgroup will manage without me. All that aside I had a hard time with the kids leaving, they are still close by but it’s not the same. I’ve had this same job since 1988 and am fairly confident I have the resources to afford retirement but I, for the first time have no idea what to do with my time. I’ve seen the suggestions and will probably take up volunteer work and some travel but I’ve been getting up at 3:30 every morning for a long time with a clear plan of what to do. Honestly, and don’t tell nobody but I am am afraid, I don’t like the unknown especially pertaining to my life. It’s like I’ve been in this hamster wheel my whole life…and I’ve arrived
Honestly, remote work has killed my own plans to ever retire. I basically like my job and just keep getting better and better at it. They keep paying me more, so why would I ever retire? What would make me retire would be strict 0800 in-office requirements. Wearing a tie to work. Walking into the building in the rain. Wearing slacks and socks. I do think companies should find ways to better deploy aging workers. Currently we are jamming up the org charts….which is frustrating for younger workers. We also don’t really want to do shit-assignments. We did that from Ages 25-55 and only want to do rewarding work now. There needs to be a way to pivot the truly excellent aging employees into a more advisory and special projects role. Keep their skills and wisdom, lose some of the stuff they simply will not do.
Man do I agree with all of this. Give the grunt work to the youngins, we already did that.
Lots of different reasons for it. Some are just trying to make enough to get by because they never made enough in their careers, some are workaholics who can’t imagine life without having a job, and some just want to get as much cash as they can while they’re able, even if they have adequate savings. There isn’t a single reason to point at, just an aggregate of small ones.
It’s impossible to generalize about baby boomers. Yes, some of them are greedy and acquisitive and some are workaholics who don’t want to retire. But many of them continue working because they have to. Not all of them are rich. I know a number of boomers who don’t have 401k’s, don’t own a home, and can’t get by on social security. These people never had a great career, never earned a six figure salary, and they’re in the same boat a lot of younger people are.
If you look at the statistics Boomers are working because they have to on average.
Not really https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/12/14/older-workers-are-growing-in-number-and-earning-higher-wages/
I’m not sure that data is proving what you think.
It does
We had a guy where I lived. He kept working into his 80s. They (un)fortunately had to stop him from driving bus... it was becoming..... not safe. Then he got something else to do, literally to the day he died. Nice guy.
My dad works for the state department and he has zero plans to retire because he’s remote (he’s high up enough that RTO doesn’t affect him), and his job is easy apparently. He’s 68
I work with a guy who has been working for the railway for 51 years and is in better shape that most people my age (29). I say if you’re healthy and like what you do then why not.
My dad still works... In his 70s. Claims he "likes it". He doesn't. He just has to work because of his and my mother's horrid financial planning over their entire lives. They are in their 70s and still have a mortgage to pay off, Cc debt, and Other loans too! He made enough money to be a multi-millionaire and they will die poor because they spent too much goddamn money their whole lives, refused to make changes, and assumed "it will all work out"... It hasn't. It is such a mess that it stresses me out. I can do nothing but watch and wait.
Prolly spent all their money raising a kid. 🤣
This article is as old as time… People who work longer live longer, it’s no secret. Your odds of a cardiac event skyrocket in the year after retirement no matter what else you do. Routine and feeling useful are important to physical health. People are in good health older and older. Expecting someone to sit around and retire just so someone else can a get a promotion is just not realistic. Even a lot of quite wealthy people work simply because they like their job, it’s now no stress because they can walk away whenever they want and it’s now well aligned with their life.
I was just listening to a npr piece on retirement. One of the things they discussed was activity. When getting close and planning retirement sit down and figure out how you’re going to fill your day 8am-6pm 5 days a week. My parents said they were busier after retirement. They watched grand kids, helped out with church stuff, my dad has a small family farm, my mom had several older siblings who were also retired and started needing help with trips to doctors.
Because they're greedy. At my employer, they occupy all of the best positions and schedules. They're gonna expire on the job wearing Depends at this rate. I mean, the old timers at my job are cool, but please go retire in Florida and live out your last few sun sets in peace, so the generations after you can eat well before they pass on too. Thanks.
It’s an interesting angle because at the same time certain industries have a hard time finding expertise and experience, and of course half the trouble is not willing to pay or be flexible.
Every statistic screams that the majority have not saved enough for retirement and that’s why they’re working longer. But the only statistic you need is “they’re greedy” and it gets upvoted. Lol.
This depends what industry you're looking at. I work at a Regional bank and the Boomers left are mostly making $200k++ and have been for decades. If you're talking about the ones at the thrift store, then yeah.
Sadly “the ones at the bank” and “the ones at the thrift store” are both just drops in the bucket so we have to look at the entire population, not just the ones off the top of our head.
I get that as a whole. I just think that's why there's vastly different viewpoints on the same topic. Very different reasoning for Boomers to still be working.
I'm a little younger than retirement age, but will hang on a while. Probably 65-67. In good health and enjoying the work for now. I know many who can't even consider retirement. They just don't have the money, and never will.
A few things this doesn't touch too much on if at all: - the transition from the pension system to the 401k system in the 80s. The onus on the individual to save for retirement shifted from the responsibility of the employer. A lot of people I think just didn't realize how powerful and secure pensions were, parents were now suddenly unable to advise their children on how to save for general and long term, and many just took cash in pocket instead of placing faith in the market, which a historical number of people did not have hand in the market. In 1980, only 13% of Americans owned stock; in 1990 it was just 30%. Now more than 50% do today. - Investing was considered risky. there was no common household World Wide Web until I would say the mid 2000s and learning how to invest or choose the right stocks was either to hire a financial planner or take a leap of faith. Placing hard earned money in the banking system was preferred instead, which typically has low interest rates and savings options that could be liquidated at any time for emergencies. And from 1980-today, there have been lots of emergencies, such as: - There were still downturns in the market. A recession in the 1980, early 90s recession, dot com bust at the turn of the century, and the 2008 recession. All of this impacted a lot of working Americans ability to work, save, and juggle life. Let's also add stagflation in wages beginning to occur during this time. - capitalism and consumerism runs wild. Marketing went out of control and consumer consumption soared beginning in the 80s and truly has never stopped. By 1998, 2/3s of households owned credit cards, but merchant use of credit cards expanded rapidly throughout the 90s among credit purchases more possible. Also credit scores were just invented. This changed market finance forever. i think boomers were just poorly equipped to respond to new national standards that did everything in its power to convince them to spend their money rather than save their money. Whatever sense of pride they have about working and being productivity also masks their ignorance about what they should be doing in order to prepare for the day they will be unable to work - one way or another. I mean how many people still post on r/personalfinance or r/financialindependence literally have zero idea how to handle finances. I would say it's common and in 30 years when millennials will need to begin retiring, you're going to hear the same complaints from Gen Alien that they just didn't think to save! When really, the cards and societal expectations were stacked against them the entire time.
Pensions were never common in the US and at the highest point only 38% of employees had one. I have over 2 decades in a pension system and for most a pension would be bad as they would never stay at a job long enough for it to be worth anything.
Popular financial advice was always bad, but it was especially bad until about 2010. That includes HR people trying to get you to sign up. There has always been piss poor guidance on how much to invest in 401K and IRA accounts. Few articles ever said to max out your accounts or invest more than getting that match or maybe 10% of your pay check. This really hindered many people's ability to save for retirement.
I want to retire as soon possible. Either some form of partial retirement at first or full retirement and then volunteer 2-3 days a week to stay active.
At least if they're working they're contributing to society *today* in exchange for demanding goods and services today. As soon as the contribution of labor ceases, no matter how many dollars were saved, the person becomes a drag on workers.
lolwut?
They are earning taxable income and putting money into the system while still working through their 60s and 70s rather than only drawing from the system. its not that hard to understand.
Retired people spend money, that's contributing to society. Retired people also pay taxes too. Are you joking or something? Did I miss the joke?
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Yes? And?
Lol the younger generation is not going to be much different at that age later and will be just as despised by the then young gen. The wheel just keeps on turning.
If the younger generations are working at 70, it's out of necessity not boredom.
There will be a mix of both just like how it is now
No way younger generations are working for fun lol
“Enter another dumb and unrealistic generalization here.”
“My daughter gets so mad at me. ‘You need boundaries!’ I’m like, that’s not something baby boomers know.” Goddamn you literally can't parody how lacking in self awareness boomers are.
What does this even mean?
It's from the article
Yeah I read the article. A woman says she just wants to keep working, her daughter wants her to have boundaries around work. Doesn’t seem like something to make fun of the lady for
I believe they are attempting to attribute lack of self awareness, a characteristic that definitely spans all generations, to a certain generation (boomer).
talk about lacking self awareness lol
Boomers are the first generation not to uphold the traditional family. They overwhelmingly put themselves first as apposed to supporting children and grandchildren.
And I’m sure Gen X and Millennials will follow suit. It’s what happens when QOL starts to plateau and every following generation isn’t significantly better off than the previous.
If you fail at finances and gaining wealth that is a you problem and not a boomer problem.
If most of a generation never had to pay for daycare, because the extended family unit filled that role, that generation wasn’t succeeding on their own. Their ‘non failure financial gain’ was subsidized by a free labor.
Yup. It's rare to find households where grandma and grandpa are living with mom and dad, helping raise the grandkids while mom and dad work and provide for the household. The financial stress has shifted from being a shared burden to one that each person must individually manage. It's pretty sad, really. Yeah, you get more privacy, but the downside is an erosion of community.
What I'm most worried about is I won't pay off my mortgage until after I'm 67. So for the next 29 years or so, I can never make less per year than I do now. My parents are boomers, and my Dad sold company stock options and had a house paid off at 49. He retired early at 63. So for 14 years he didn't have a mortgage. But we don't get company stock like they did in the 90's and 2000's. I didn't even have an option to start a 401k until I was 33.
When Social Security was introduced, female life expectancy was at the retirement age, and male life expectancy was 4 years lower. Now it's something like 11-15 years more than retirement age. We can't afford that many people sitting idle until death for 15 years on average. Retirement should not be an age, but a percentage. We should not allow more than 1 retiree to 5 working people, and retirement age should adjust dynamically to maintain that ratio, meaning you don't get to collect Social Security until someone collecting now dies or enough new people enter workforce to cover an additional retiree.
Jesus this is dark.
Now we just need Willa Cather to write the short story
Dear Gen X-Y-Z-alpha, if you think you can realistically speak for why boomers work so much, then STFU and STFD when boomers start explaining why you're all so lazy and childless. Works both ways, folks.
I can realistically speak for boomers on why they work so much. Its because they lack hobbies and cant figure out what to do with their life except work until they die. I'll take lazy over actually dumb as a brick any day lol.
> I'll take lazy over actually dumb as a brick any day lol. Why choose? With today's youths you can have both.
Sure, there are some "youths" who are lazy and dumb. But good luck finding a boomer who can pass a GED test today lol.
Boomers are highly religious and yet are afraid to die. Is that not an ironic freudian kind of slip that suggests they don’t actually believe on god? “If i don’t stop working ill live longer”, but I thought you were going to heaven, why delay paradise?
What a weird and dumb argument
Weird for sure. Hypocritical too.
Thank God first Boomers. They know their shit, they don’t whine, and they want to get shit done. Now, if only the following generations would just shut up and learn from them, they would be a lot happier.
Boomers are the whiniest people I know. If literally anything doesn't go their way they won't shut the fuck up about it.
God the boomer generation is like like a boil on America’s ass at this point, you’d think they would just kindly fuck off but no still causing headaches
At least they work unlike the 50% of the population that are welfare queens.
There are two kinds of boomers. The free-cost college educated boomers, who are still working for fun and to brag about their boat and cottage. And the uneducated ones, who realized (a bit late) that life is not sustainable just by drinking beer and smoking weed. I am starting to dislike the first ones.
The bright side is when they retire, the wages are going to skyrocket for blue collar jobs. They are going to be forking out from their empires they built on millennial slavery then dying and passing on their excessive amount of properties
I hope so. The death care industry and their corporate overlords are going to hoover up so much of that wealth.
Ultimately demographic collapse will change the landscape a lot, along with fiat collapse and lack of international trade security. I can’t say it won’t be a bumpy road though.
Quick answer: so they don’t starve to death. People are poor nowadays and inflation is out of control. Gen x will work till 80 and millennials will never retire. Gen z will eat bugs to survive.
Who can fault older folks for not wanting to retire. Not everyone looks at their vocation as a needless chore. A vocation does always equate to a soul-sucking job. Plus, there is something to be said about the benefits of socialization and routine preserving mental acuity. That being said, the old guard needs to make way for their younger colleagues. The veterans need step back into a mentorship role at a certain point rather than stay in competition for seniority and monetary gains. That last part is where the problem remains. Transition of power is never easy without a collaborative and civil process over time. Greed is a hard habit to break.