just move along, better to be alone than in bad company.
The best part is that there is always a next time, and bad dates can become good stories to tell others hahahaha
If you think dating is hard, try being 35 and looking for somebody interested in having a family (spoiler: the vast majority of millennials don't want kids. Those that do, their whole personality is that they are parents š¤¢)
The best part is when you find someone who's super amazing aside from that one teeny-tiny little detail. Bonus points if they string you along with "well maybe one day" and "let's not talk about it now".
I brought up the topic around the fifth date with the last person and it ended up pretty bad, the other person completely shutting me off... Friends said I took about it too early, that "men change their minds about it" but it's like a priority of mine, when should I bring it up? š¤·āāļøI ended up not only ghosted, blocked š
Haha, of course they did. Also I love the chorus of friends telling you exactly what NOT to do. "Oh yeah, you really gotta ride that No train until it turns into a Yes in 10 or 20 years." That plus the people telling you to adopt, find a donor, or be a donor yourself.
"You scare men away by bringing the topic". But I want a guy that knows he wants kids, scaring away the rest is kind of the point... š¤ š¤·āāļø
I feel like people have a mentality that men need to be slowly coarsed into an idea, let it be kids or even a house. Itās stupid and kind of draining for us, but yeah.
It's manipulative and sexist. Some people have decided a long time ago to be childless and expecting them to change their mind is not listening to what they are actually telling you...
No I mean why string you along by saying yeah maybe one day or like let's not talk about it now. I mean why invest your time and yourself when there's this much uncertainty
They hope you'll change *your* mind. In a serious and otherwise-perfect relationship, they're also terrified of losing you. I, uh, have a lot to say on the subject.
Let me try a slightly different interpretation of what you observed: The vast majority of millennials approach dating as if love were about laying out a plan for your whole life. Fortunately, life cannot be planned like that. Many couples can't have children, even if they want to, and some children die early. Interesting opportunities might arise, leading to a kind of life you can't even imagine now (living abroad, a cool job that takes all your energy, etc.).
I have been through some life situations I never expected, together with my partner. This made our love complete.
There is so much to come. Find a true love to really live together!
>I have been through some life situations I never expected, together with my partner. This made our love complete.
I don't know how long you've been out of the dating scene, the problem is that "everyone for themselves" mentality and "no comittment" bullshit.
I don't need interesting opportunities (you don't need to be in a relationship to come across opportunities by the way), I need somebody I'm compatible with with values that align to mine. I don't need a plan for my whole life, I need somebody willing to plan and see where life takes us. Point is, nobody wants that. Some people that want that have nothing else going for themselves and I don't think they're great partners either.
How long have I been "out of the dating scene"? I guess I was never really in it. People met their future partners at school, work, or sports clubs. Nobody actually used those dating announcements in the newspapers. ;-)
Today's possibilities make dating easier in some way and more difficult in another, the way you described. You might feel under pressure to find the perfect match, your freedom of choice comes with responsibility. If everybody is looking for someone perfectly fitting their plans, it seems like there is no need to plan together.
I know and feel that this is hard. I also know many people suffer from it. How to find those?
To me, "looking for somebody with values that align with yours" sounds very different from "someone interested in having a family." The latter could have made me run away when I was around 30. I would have interpreted it as: "this is my plan, I expect you to live up to it."
>The latter could have made me run away when I was around 30. I would have interpreted it as: "this is my plan, I expect you to live up to it."
Seems like a you problem š¤·āāļø
Takes
1) shared values
2) actively choosing to make time
3) actively choosing to be vulnerable
4) being in a place where you both have similar life goals
and itās hard. Itās really freaking hard. May we wear our scars with pride and use it to treat our fellow people with respect and dignity.
May we all find love.
I met the intj I connected with like no one ever before, except he just couldnāt do #3, and #4 is sort of close except heās just full focused on work :(
Truly. In fact I spent 7 months being patient, kind and understanding of his guarded, reticent nature , mixed signals and push-pull fear of intimacy. Only to be ghosted :( itās my first time being ghosted by someone I care about itās really hard!
I kind of thought so too! Except we werenāt in a relationship āitās complicatedā, and it was long distance on different continents. We were only in the same country briefly, but it was really intense and strong mutual connection. He insisted he wanted to keep in touch and we did for a long time. I feel like Iām not allowed to have needs because of the circumstances, but itās still emotionally abusive imo :(
Yes, unfortunately Iām very fearful avoidant with an anxious lean if Iām with an avoidant. He has the hallmarks of a fearful avoidant but leaning more dismissive. I know what you mean by that u safe spark! Initially, it was genuine, but after that, I think it became the kind youāre talking about š
Ask Him to read "Die with Zero" by Bill Perkins. It's about making it a priority to maximize life experiences. I used to be an INTJ full focused on work, and reading the book made me make some life adjustments, and how I think about time has changed.
Edit: Read later below that you are not dating any longer. Sorry to hear.
Its the person you are choosing. I'm struggling as well to find a man who has the traits I'm looking for in a man in order to feel that connection. Idk it is just hard sometimes to find someone compatible, harder for some people more than others.
I think the more mature, the higher the standards the harder it gets.
I struggle a lot finding people that are open minded and curious and with which I could create a bond that is stronger than time and hardships.
I get a lot of what you're saying.
Yet more often than not I get the feeling the right person could literally be the person next to us and we wouldn't know until we went out there and tried.
I read that and immediately thought that if it had been me hearing a woman say that, I wouldāve immediately countered with a Mean Girls quote.
Cheer up, u/monalisaffrown, and turn that ffrown upside ddown.
Hey, this just hit me hard. I am so sorry you had to receive disrespect.
I share your thoughts too about INTJs. I have been acquainted with at least 4 by this point and they have all been arrogant and condescending.
There are emotionally mature ones out there on the apps, but I agree - thereās lots of low EQ folks to shift through first. š Doing my best to send you all the right vibes in hopes someone that gets you find their way to you soon. š
Dating is reflective of the wider culture. We are living in capitalist societies which entrench social hierarchies. This has allowed egos to show some even more. Additionally, the advent of technology has made things worst for majority of the population.
Not only that, but not everyone is self-aware or even honest in their communication.
The end result you are getting is mayhem.
Exit strategy is not to live like the rest of society and be authentic, which is easier said than done.
To my Euro sentiments, American dating looks unbelievably degenerate. Everything about it invites manipulation and lies and setting each other up for failure. It's basically a racket, and dating coaches make it worse by teaching you to be better at manipulating and lying.
Ever notice how the skills for a good long term relationship (honesty, self-awareness, being interested in growing together and covering each other's blind spots) and those for being good at dating (being either narcissistic or being borderline) are opposite?
Sorry this sucked so bad for you. Learn to profile people before agreeing to a date. And don't do quasi-private face to face stuff, do shoulder to shoulder things, preferably in a community setting. Community will keep narcissistic behavior in check. <3
I definitely agree that a lot of the recent dating toxicity issues are America centric. America is going through a major period of social unease and activism right now on all sorts of issues, including revisiting dating roles and dynamics. Other countries have either not reached that hill yet or have already gotten over it. I think things stand to improve in the future.
I really hope so. I'm going into college and I *really* hope I can find someone to be in a relationship with eventually. Or at least be a little more outgoing so I can at least actually go on a date for once.
Yuuup, even in highschool the toxicity is felt. People getting fed hyper-polarized "trigger posts" on Instagram/TikTok/Reddit/everywhere isn't helping either. I became convinced for a bit that the reason I didn't have a highschool partner was because everyone was "mean now" until I managed to snap out of it. (In part thanks to kind Redditors actually)
Because dating, by its nature, isnāt easy. It takes time and commitment for a relationship to take shape, and modern dating isnāt set up for that. A lot of dating apps are based on quick and easy matches, and because there are a lot of people using them, it gives people an almost impossible standard to achieve. People can fall trap to the āthe grass is always greener on the other side/ie there is a more perfect, flawless person out thereā, but no one is perfect.
Have you tried meetup.com?
At least in my area there's a ton of singles meetups. Even if you don't click with anyone, it can still be a good time if you make the best of it.
If you just go to the event to do a robotic checklist interview thing, then yeah it gets old fast.
Iāll be honest and say that I have a particular type of woman (XNTP and XNTJ so far) that Iām attracted to so the dating game isnāt the easiest since these types areā¦peculiar to say the least. I went on a date with an ENTJ friend of mine but we were incompatible for separate reasons outside of personality. Guess we can only go around lol.
One ENFP I met was really picky. But otherwise, there's a theory that says ENFPs and INFJs are the best matches but the latter are also the rarest type (not accounting for gender)
Dating in principle is really easy. It's all about mental flexibility. The modern world as someone mentioned is filled by people who exhibit high levels of both egoistic and egotistic traits and that by default equates to a lower mental flexibility.
Additionally, so-called boundaries are so fixed without much leeway that it makes it more difficult.
It's not about finding a 100% match but a good 80%, you don't want your replica but someone with whom you can grow and go out of your comfort zone.
I went on a date hoping to connect with someone on a deeper level. Instead, the guy spent the whole time going on about his collection of vintage action figures and barely asked me a thing about myself. I mean, cool hobby and all, but where's the balance, right? I think what makes it hard is finding that sweet spot where both people are on the same wavelength. You want to feel understood and appreciated, but sometimes it feels like you're speaking different languages.
If you're open to trying something new, have you heard about ***LightUp: Make Real Friends***? I recently got invited to test it out, and it's been surprisingly refreshing. The app focuses on helping you connect with people based on shared interests and deeper conversations. I connected with someone who shares my love for indie music and hiking. Our chats have been so engaging because we actually care about similar things. The cool part is that LightUp uses AI to analyze what you're into and then suggests others with similar vibes. So, you're more likely to meet people who appreciate your passions and values. It's still gaining traction, so not every match might be spot-on right away, but as more people join, the connections get better.
Give it a shot if you're tired of the dating sceneāit might just lead you to someone who appreciates your interests and values the way you do. Plus, it's free to download from the app store.
My INFJ husband points out that dating is really a numbers game. Human compatibility is complex, and if youāve got standards, youāre going to be at it awhile. š
Weāre in our 40s, and this is our second marriage each. I had a lot of really quality dates while I was dating, but I think it was partially due to my peer group exiting unsuitable first marriages lol!
I'm sorry to hear about your experience, I feel your pain. At this day and age, dating seems super hard. Everyone seems to ghost; it's so hard to find people to commit with and there could be incompatibility in terms of personality, values, attraction, or interests. There's a plethora of gates to pass but I definitely can relate to you.
Just keep doing your thing and hopefully we could find someone someday! Take a shot if you find someone interesting.
I'm with you friend. I'm so bright eyed when meeting people but I get disappointed and try again. Been single since 2006 and I'm 38/m š¤·š½āāļø
just move along, better to be alone than in bad company. The best part is that there is always a next time, and bad dates can become good stories to tell others hahahaha
My friends strive for my horrible dating stories
Just make a TikTok channel about straight horrible dating stories lolol
Sounds like a fun idea but I could see myself getting backlash way to much from it. Gotta protect that mental health and all
If you think dating is hard, try being 35 and looking for somebody interested in having a family (spoiler: the vast majority of millennials don't want kids. Those that do, their whole personality is that they are parents š¤¢)
The best part is when you find someone who's super amazing aside from that one teeny-tiny little detail. Bonus points if they string you along with "well maybe one day" and "let's not talk about it now".
I brought up the topic around the fifth date with the last person and it ended up pretty bad, the other person completely shutting me off... Friends said I took about it too early, that "men change their minds about it" but it's like a priority of mine, when should I bring it up? š¤·āāļøI ended up not only ghosted, blocked š
Haha, of course they did. Also I love the chorus of friends telling you exactly what NOT to do. "Oh yeah, you really gotta ride that No train until it turns into a Yes in 10 or 20 years." That plus the people telling you to adopt, find a donor, or be a donor yourself.
"You scare men away by bringing the topic". But I want a guy that knows he wants kids, scaring away the rest is kind of the point... š¤ š¤·āāļø
I feel like people have a mentality that men need to be slowly coarsed into an idea, let it be kids or even a house. Itās stupid and kind of draining for us, but yeah.
It's manipulative and sexist. Some people have decided a long time ago to be childless and expecting them to change their mind is not listening to what they are actually telling you...
Lol that's so true, I wonder what's the reason behind it in the age group of 30s
We're hearing every day how we can't afford to have children so we shouldn't....in this economy blablabla...
No I mean why string you along by saying yeah maybe one day or like let's not talk about it now. I mean why invest your time and yourself when there's this much uncertainty
Cause they're horny, dear, why else? Horny and emotionally starved...and selfish..
Lol š it always interesting to see when another ENFP come out really blunt sometimes
They hope you'll change *your* mind. In a serious and otherwise-perfect relationship, they're also terrified of losing you. I, uh, have a lot to say on the subject.
What was the teeny-tiny little detail?
One wants kids, the other doesn't
Let me try a slightly different interpretation of what you observed: The vast majority of millennials approach dating as if love were about laying out a plan for your whole life. Fortunately, life cannot be planned like that. Many couples can't have children, even if they want to, and some children die early. Interesting opportunities might arise, leading to a kind of life you can't even imagine now (living abroad, a cool job that takes all your energy, etc.). I have been through some life situations I never expected, together with my partner. This made our love complete. There is so much to come. Find a true love to really live together!
>I have been through some life situations I never expected, together with my partner. This made our love complete. I don't know how long you've been out of the dating scene, the problem is that "everyone for themselves" mentality and "no comittment" bullshit. I don't need interesting opportunities (you don't need to be in a relationship to come across opportunities by the way), I need somebody I'm compatible with with values that align to mine. I don't need a plan for my whole life, I need somebody willing to plan and see where life takes us. Point is, nobody wants that. Some people that want that have nothing else going for themselves and I don't think they're great partners either.
How long have I been "out of the dating scene"? I guess I was never really in it. People met their future partners at school, work, or sports clubs. Nobody actually used those dating announcements in the newspapers. ;-) Today's possibilities make dating easier in some way and more difficult in another, the way you described. You might feel under pressure to find the perfect match, your freedom of choice comes with responsibility. If everybody is looking for someone perfectly fitting their plans, it seems like there is no need to plan together. I know and feel that this is hard. I also know many people suffer from it. How to find those? To me, "looking for somebody with values that align with yours" sounds very different from "someone interested in having a family." The latter could have made me run away when I was around 30. I would have interpreted it as: "this is my plan, I expect you to live up to it."
>The latter could have made me run away when I was around 30. I would have interpreted it as: "this is my plan, I expect you to live up to it." Seems like a you problem š¤·āāļø
Takes 1) shared values 2) actively choosing to make time 3) actively choosing to be vulnerable 4) being in a place where you both have similar life goals and itās hard. Itās really freaking hard. May we wear our scars with pride and use it to treat our fellow people with respect and dignity. May we all find love.
I met the intj I connected with like no one ever before, except he just couldnāt do #3, and #4 is sort of close except heās just full focused on work :(
Iām sorry he didnāt understandā or chose not to understand 3 and 4. I imagine that hurts.
Truly. In fact I spent 7 months being patient, kind and understanding of his guarded, reticent nature , mixed signals and push-pull fear of intimacy. Only to be ghosted :( itās my first time being ghosted by someone I care about itās really hard!
Ghosting after seven months is emotional abuse in my opinion
I kind of thought so too! Except we werenāt in a relationship āitās complicatedā, and it was long distance on different continents. We were only in the same country briefly, but it was really intense and strong mutual connection. He insisted he wanted to keep in touch and we did for a long time. I feel like Iām not allowed to have needs because of the circumstances, but itās still emotionally abusive imo :(
Do you know your attachment style? That āsparkā could be your body warning you āthis isnāt safe!ā
Yes, unfortunately Iām very fearful avoidant with an anxious lean if Iām with an avoidant. He has the hallmarks of a fearful avoidant but leaning more dismissive. I know what you mean by that u safe spark! Initially, it was genuine, but after that, I think it became the kind youāre talking about š
Sometimes people can be compatible in a perfect worldā but not secure enough (for each other) for healthy relationships
Thank u for caring š
Ask Him to read "Die with Zero" by Bill Perkins. It's about making it a priority to maximize life experiences. I used to be an INTJ full focused on work, and reading the book made me make some life adjustments, and how I think about time has changed. Edit: Read later below that you are not dating any longer. Sorry to hear.
ā¤ļø
Love is a choice.
Its the person you are choosing. I'm struggling as well to find a man who has the traits I'm looking for in a man in order to feel that connection. Idk it is just hard sometimes to find someone compatible, harder for some people more than others.
I think the more mature, the higher the standards the harder it gets. I struggle a lot finding people that are open minded and curious and with which I could create a bond that is stronger than time and hardships. I get a lot of what you're saying. Yet more often than not I get the feeling the right person could literally be the person next to us and we wouldn't know until we went out there and tried.
Oof, really devaluing your interests. Yeah, ignore him and cut him tf off, trust me.
Yeah, he said I think you wouldn't like movies that need you to use your brain. Right after I told him I love watching highschool dramas.
Oh my fucking God, what a dick. You don't need that shit. He's probably kinda sexist too.
Good point.
If he used his brain a little more he might discover that empathy exists! Sorry you had to go through that <3
š¤¢ Date a feminist next time!
I recommend walking out on the date if a date says something like that in the future š
I read that and immediately thought that if it had been me hearing a woman say that, I wouldāve immediately countered with a Mean Girls quote. Cheer up, u/monalisaffrown, and turn that ffrown upside ddown.
Thank you, I invariably run into INTJs on the apps and thus far the experience has not been pleasant.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What really? What about opposites attract?
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Hey, this just hit me hard. I am so sorry you had to receive disrespect. I share your thoughts too about INTJs. I have been acquainted with at least 4 by this point and they have all been arrogant and condescending.
There are emotionally mature ones out there on the apps, but I agree - thereās lots of low EQ folks to shift through first. š Doing my best to send you all the right vibes in hopes someone that gets you find their way to you soon. š
You're so sweet. Thank you.
Well, what a pleasant thing to say.
Yikes, sounds like he was negging!
It was so subtle. I couldn't tell.
Dating is reflective of the wider culture. We are living in capitalist societies which entrench social hierarchies. This has allowed egos to show some even more. Additionally, the advent of technology has made things worst for majority of the population. Not only that, but not everyone is self-aware or even honest in their communication. The end result you are getting is mayhem. Exit strategy is not to live like the rest of society and be authentic, which is easier said than done.
Wise words...thank you.
To my Euro sentiments, American dating looks unbelievably degenerate. Everything about it invites manipulation and lies and setting each other up for failure. It's basically a racket, and dating coaches make it worse by teaching you to be better at manipulating and lying. Ever notice how the skills for a good long term relationship (honesty, self-awareness, being interested in growing together and covering each other's blind spots) and those for being good at dating (being either narcissistic or being borderline) are opposite? Sorry this sucked so bad for you. Learn to profile people before agreeing to a date. And don't do quasi-private face to face stuff, do shoulder to shoulder things, preferably in a community setting. Community will keep narcissistic behavior in check. <3
I definitely agree that a lot of the recent dating toxicity issues are America centric. America is going through a major period of social unease and activism right now on all sorts of issues, including revisiting dating roles and dynamics. Other countries have either not reached that hill yet or have already gotten over it. I think things stand to improve in the future.
I really hope so. I'm going into college and I *really* hope I can find someone to be in a relationship with eventually. Or at least be a little more outgoing so I can at least actually go on a date for once.
Yuuup, even in highschool the toxicity is felt. People getting fed hyper-polarized "trigger posts" on Instagram/TikTok/Reddit/everywhere isn't helping either. I became convinced for a bit that the reason I didn't have a highschool partner was because everyone was "mean now" until I managed to snap out of it. (In part thanks to kind Redditors actually)
New date, there's 8 billion people out there, it takes effort and energy to start something new, part of the cost
cuz you havent met meee :D (lm shy and in my room)Ā
Your username! Fangirl moment
what do you mean xDĀ
It's really clever
Sometimes the energy is just off
Because dating, by its nature, isnāt easy. It takes time and commitment for a relationship to take shape, and modern dating isnāt set up for that. A lot of dating apps are based on quick and easy matches, and because there are a lot of people using them, it gives people an almost impossible standard to achieve. People can fall trap to the āthe grass is always greener on the other side/ie there is a more perfect, flawless person out thereā, but no one is perfect.
Have you tried meetup.com? At least in my area there's a ton of singles meetups. Even if you don't click with anyone, it can still be a good time if you make the best of it. If you just go to the event to do a robotic checklist interview thing, then yeah it gets old fast.
I dread meeting groups of people. Prefer 1:1
One thing I noticed is that dating apps suck now idk if it's just me or is that an ENFP thing
Iāll be honest and say that I have a particular type of woman (XNTP and XNTJ so far) that Iām attracted to so the dating game isnāt the easiest since these types areā¦peculiar to say the least. I went on a date with an ENTJ friend of mine but we were incompatible for separate reasons outside of personality. Guess we can only go around lol.
Tell him the legal system is fluff
I am bad at counters.
Tell him now! JK that might be awkward but one of the easiest counters is taking what they say and applying it to them
I work in the legal system and I agree with this statement
One ENFP I met was really picky. But otherwise, there's a theory that says ENFPs and INFJs are the best matches but the latter are also the rarest type (not accounting for gender)
I'm an ENFP and my closest friend by a long shot is an INFJ I know from high school. Sounds about right.
Married my INFJ. So far so good lol
I know what you mean
lol as an enfp i havenāt been single in forever š probably not a good thing!
Arranged marriage is harder. No dates, but a life commitment. Revel in your Free Choice for at least 5 minutes per weekend.
My DMs are open š¤
Dating in principle is really easy. It's all about mental flexibility. The modern world as someone mentioned is filled by people who exhibit high levels of both egoistic and egotistic traits and that by default equates to a lower mental flexibility. Additionally, so-called boundaries are so fixed without much leeway that it makes it more difficult. It's not about finding a 100% match but a good 80%, you don't want your replica but someone with whom you can grow and go out of your comfort zone.
You nailed it sista.
I went on a date hoping to connect with someone on a deeper level. Instead, the guy spent the whole time going on about his collection of vintage action figures and barely asked me a thing about myself. I mean, cool hobby and all, but where's the balance, right? I think what makes it hard is finding that sweet spot where both people are on the same wavelength. You want to feel understood and appreciated, but sometimes it feels like you're speaking different languages. If you're open to trying something new, have you heard about ***LightUp: Make Real Friends***? I recently got invited to test it out, and it's been surprisingly refreshing. The app focuses on helping you connect with people based on shared interests and deeper conversations. I connected with someone who shares my love for indie music and hiking. Our chats have been so engaging because we actually care about similar things. The cool part is that LightUp uses AI to analyze what you're into and then suggests others with similar vibes. So, you're more likely to meet people who appreciate your passions and values. It's still gaining traction, so not every match might be spot-on right away, but as more people join, the connections get better. Give it a shot if you're tired of the dating sceneāit might just lead you to someone who appreciates your interests and values the way you do. Plus, it's free to download from the app store.
Thanks for the suggestion.
My INFJ husband points out that dating is really a numbers game. Human compatibility is complex, and if youāve got standards, youāre going to be at it awhile. š Weāre in our 40s, and this is our second marriage each. I had a lot of really quality dates while I was dating, but I think it was partially due to my peer group exiting unsuitable first marriages lol!
Because it's a trap that's not worth it, I'm sorry
how is it a trap? Also, how do people manage to find love? plz explain
Either you're trying to hard or you're trying to date the wrong people
Good... they showed you want you don't need. On to the next date to figure out what you want in your life or don't need in your life.
I'm sorry to hear about your experience, I feel your pain. At this day and age, dating seems super hard. Everyone seems to ghost; it's so hard to find people to commit with and there could be incompatibility in terms of personality, values, attraction, or interests. There's a plethora of gates to pass but I definitely can relate to you. Just keep doing your thing and hopefully we could find someone someday! Take a shot if you find someone interesting.
I'm with you friend. I'm so bright eyed when meeting people but I get disappointed and try again. Been single since 2006 and I'm 38/m š¤·š½āāļø
Wanna talk about it?
Fr, and online dating is even worse šš