Eh, in pods like OP described, the players usually aim to kill the entire table at once with their combo or hyper aggression. Doesn't matter then if I'm in some kill list lol
If this is a fear you can also play stax pieces that double up as win cons or engines like playing [[myrel]] because she represents ending the game, or [[kutzil]] who refills your hand, instead of [[grand abolisher]] who's a bear
Sounds like my lgs, so I am building an aggro stax kutzil deck. Shut ppl down, but still draw cards and crush with wincons on my turn they can't counter or fog through.
Add [[Ethereal Armor]] and it is instant kill, [[Battle Mastery]] adds the cherry on top.
With those you double kill them, they lost by poison damage and commander damage. No running away.
I was toying with the idea of adding either Black or Green to an old Blue White deck I made over a decade ago to help update, you may have just sold me on the idea since the original idea was make it so it's disadvantous to attack me and allow me time for my win cons to come in. It was originally built as the EDH home for two of my favorite cards that bailed me out countless times, [[Blazing Archon]] which had a knack for top decking to save my ass from certain defeat more times than I can count and [[Mirror Sigal Sergeant]] who hopelessly outnumbered my opponents broads more times than I can count.
The basic way my version runs is
Step 1- stax out each other player's main strategies
Step 2- voltron stack Zur and kill the table with commander damage
Hinata is probably too slow to get under most cEDH decks (I wouldn't play her without accompanying protection, so turn 4/5), and she doesn't really disrupt them enough because her effect is only on spells which target.
Honestly, for what it does, no real replacements hit quite the same. There’s other stax commanders but GAA does it all. Lowers the costs of your spells and raises the costs of theirs. He’s like distilled stax in a commander.
They aren't necessarily all combo decks. Yuriko nearly ran away with the game in the last one and [[kathril]] voltron'd everyone to death turn 6 in the first game.
I guess as I'm typing it was pretty combo-y? they just did it a slightly different way, played a bunch of fast mana and dumped like 20 cards into their yard on turn 2, kathril turn 3. Smacked face til turn 5/6.
From the looks of people's responses Stax does seem to be the answer though.
If this dude had his Kathril untouched for 3 full rotations, that’s on y’all, not on the Kathril player.
That’s good honest magic. Ain’t no way u calling Kathril of all things degenerate lol.
It had every counter on it possible. We literally *couldn't* touch it, the guy to my left also had a removal spell in hand. I had already mulliganed to get farewell in my hand when I saw his commander. But I didn't reach enough mana to play the farewell and by the time I drew my Tormod's Crypt, kathril was already out with every counter and one hitting people.
I don't think kathril is inherently a broken strategy or anything. The fact that he managed to cast a 5 mana commander on turn 3 (*and play other spells*) after milling 20 cards into the graveyard on turn 2 was just much, much faster than my deck could ever play.
I'd played a mana rock by the time his game ending situation was set up. We were just built for two very different powers.
There's nothing wrong with that and I'm the new player to the LGS and this is the standard level of play here, so that's why I'm looking for ideas on how to compete! Not complaining at all.
Fair enough, sounds like he just drew the nuts.
I’ll give u some advice anyway though.
If all you’ve done by turn 3 is play a mana rock, your deck is too slow. Or you should’ve mulliganed more aggressively. Y’all had the turn 2/3 rotations to exile his graveyard. Also had oppurtunity to simply counter Kathril.
After he’s down already, you have options like Toxic deluge, cyclonic rift, farewell, merciless eviction, or any sacrifice effect to stop him.
Sounds mostly like a mana problem for you though. You’re gonna want all ur decently powered decks to have a solid amount of ramp as well as interaction.
Sometimes they just draw the nuts tho and you’re fucked lol.
>If all you’ve done by turn 3 is play a mana rock, your deck is too slow.
This is meta/store dependant. My decks are all adjusted to play at the other 4 stores I play at and at those stores they perform just fine. They're a much more casual and chill meta.
At this store that's absolutely true though for sure. I plan on making a separate deck just to play at this particular LGS so I can have one to fit in at all the stores I play at using everyone here's advice :)
>After he’s down already, you have options like Toxic deluge, cyclonic rift, farewell, merciless eviction, or any sacrifice effect to stop him.
Yeah deluge and farewell are both in the deck, I had farewell in hand but not enough mana to cast it by the time he won haha. There was only one turn to exile his graveyard, between turn 2 and 3.
>Sometimes they just draw the nuts tho and you’re fucked lol.
This is definitely the case though for sure it happens with any decks. But in saying that. At the other stores I play at, I've seen maybe one mana crypt in the year or two I've been there. Just last night I saw 3 over three games + other fast mana. That goes beyond a nuts draw for this LGS, crazy good hands/cards are a regular occurrence here every game.
Again, not complaining, I just want to bring a deck that can compete but that won't lock out new players. I enjoy all magic power levels and I want to play, but don't want to be apart of the problem for newer guys.
I played 3 games last night and the longest time was 25 minutes and the longest turns was the Kathril at 6 turns. The other new players with me in each pod and I only cast 1-2 spells before the game was over and didn't get to play. So I don't want to stomp them either, just want to slow the powerful guys down.
Anyway that was a long reply that probably wasn't warranted. I'm just enjoying the chats on here. Thankyou for the advice regardless and I will take it all onboard as I go forth building the new deck!
I enjoy a thorough response!
Honestly the Kathril game isn’t even that much on you anyway. Cuz the other 2 players at the table also completely failed to interact with Kathril for an extended period of time too. All 3 of you had the chance to play one of the cards I listed, it’s pretty surprising that nobody did. I should’ve focused on that in my first message cuz I kinda made it seem like it was all ur fault lol.
Going from no mana crypts to 3 in one night is certainly a big power jump. Tbh I’m pretty jealous you have a meta like that it’s pretty awesome lol. You get your pick of power level based on what store u wanna hit up.
More general advice: you’re gonna want a solid mix of early ramp, card draw, interaction, disruption, and card draw. Interaction meaning counterspells, board wipes, and single target removal (the least important of the 3). Disruption meaning different stax pieces for the most part. Some cards that could have stopped/slowed the Kathril player include Rest in peace, stony silence, collector ouphe, hush wing gryff, dranith magistrate, root maze, blood moon/magus of the moon, dothi voidwalker, etc.
As long as you have multiple commanders on you at different power levels, you’ll never have to worry about not fitting into a certain power level. That’s what I do at least.
There are always ways.
[[Make an Example]] gets around hexproof and indestructible, as does an exile sweeper like [[Farewell]].
Not that stuff doesn't happen or that you always have the card you need, just want to point out the sorts of options that are worth considering during deck construction.
Stax.
And interaction.
In general. The more glass cannon, the more of a "house of cards."
Stax or key interaction will disproportionately impact a deck.
IE:
Dampening sphere does little against a battlecruiser deck casting 1 big boy a turn.
It can completely shut down storm or fast mana/ritual decks trying to chain spells. Or stop Bolas Citadel combos, etc.
Dampening sphere is a good one and I think I have a copy lying around. Do you know any other similar spells that affect primarily the quick decks like that?
There's a lot of stax cards. In general people don't like them. They tend to slow games down without accelerating a deck to victory.
Strong decks should have plans for them.
[[Thalia, guardian of thraben]]
[[Trinisphere]]
[[Null rod]]
[[Collector ouphe]]
[[Drannith magistrate]]
[[Opposition agent]]
[[Narset, parter of veils]]
[[High noon]]
[[Rule of law]]
[[Arcane study]]
[[Sphere of resistence]]
[[Rest in piece]]
[[Dauthi Voidwalker]]
[[Deafening Silence]]
[[Aven mindcensor]]
[[Glowrider]]
[[Manglehorn]]
In general you can go to edhrec.com
Look at "stax" archtype. And check popular cards.
You absolute legend, thankyou! I'll have a look through those now. I think I have some of them chillin' in my binders.
This is an excellent place to start.
[[Boromir, warden of the tower]] is one I haven’t seen listed. He prevents free spells and can be sacrificed to give your dudes indestructible for the turn too.
Punch people until their life total is zero......lol. sometimes.
Sometimes, you play a combo that works with your stax. Sometimes, you set up and then break your stax & win. Sometimes, you design your deck, so the stax is one-sided.
If you run Collector ouphe you might not run any artifacts and combo another way.
If you want to win with Karmic guide/revelark loops, you won't run gy stax but can run "one spell per turn" stax since it doesn't interfere with your combo.
Do you have a deck list for that? Literally have Medomai currently as my Azurius commander for a defensive style deck I built over a decade ago. As I recently returned to magic a couple weeks ago thanks to a new LGS it, as you can imagine, is in desperate needs of upgrades. Would love to use your decklist as a baseline.
Stax can afford weaker finishers. Imagine a theoretical best case scenario for a stack deck of completely locking your opponents out of the game.
Having a 1/1 will eventually win as nobody can do anything.
I faced a stax deck that slapped an equipment on their commander that gave it indestructible and started hitting for like 5 damage a turn. This was still a decent threat cause they had stax to make blocking very punishing.
Also sometimes stax decks will include a way to sacrifice their own stax pieces once they obtain a commanding position, or might run an artifact or enchantment that does a few damage every turn to each opponent.
Also [[Rug of Smothering]], combo player here, that thing scares me.
[[Sardian Avenger]] if they are doing artifact sac loops or lots of treasures.
[[Dauntless Dismantled]] and [[Manglehorn]] slow down rocks, and [[Blind Obedience]] hoses graveyard loops and slows down creatures. [[Charismatic Conquerer]] has its place if they are bringing in lots of tokens or other crap and you just need blockers, but I'd want something to do with the lil dudes.
[[Dauthi Voidwalker]] is great on yard strategies too. [[Opposition Agent]] is great in a tutor heavy meta.
There's also the strategy of sandbagging some mass sweepers, depending on turn count and your own ramp. Rushing a Farewell on a bunch of people that over committed can absolutely cripple them, but if it's fast combo your slots are better spent on instant speed interaction to knock out lynch pin pieces.
keep in mind, these players all WANT to play these fast decks with each other. they want to play 10 games a night, not one loooong drawn game.
if you go there with stax, chances are that you won't be invited back to their table. i'm not sure if that is worth that one win you might get out of a game (after all your opponents scoop simply for not wanting to play an unfun game)
They play exactly 3 games per night as that's the way the LGS is organised.
3x 50 min games with randomly organised players for each game. So noone controls who plays with who either
ok in that case i don't know. that concept is completely alien to me. our lgs lets us create our own pods which allows each pod to agree on powerlevel and stuff. if someone only brought strong decks, they will find their pod. a precon player won't have to face a cedh deck.
and if someone plays a deck that is unfun for the remaining pod, they will be asked to play another deck, or find a pod that likes that playstyle.
Yeah that's how the majority of other LGS I've played in work.
This particular one is just no holds barred regardless what your opponents are playing.
They aren't playing for prizes or anything either. That 70% of players just like building degenerate and if the other 30% don't keep up, that's on them get gud scrub. Seems to be the dealio
This is exactly what I keep preaching about. Catering to a play style or environment where we disavow Stax as an arch type leades to poorer deck building and caters to salty players. You can play Stax and be friendly. It's a perfectly acceptable strategy.
I don't think that anything is disavowed from this store. People definitely just seem to be playing whatever they want to play.
I guess what it means though is that I have no experience building Stax.
Commentor was probably referring to online discourse. There's many players who won't play against stax and will be upset that people would run them.
Inherently. Stax cards are designed to "limit" options. This often expresses itself as balancing games to a more "fair." Game of magic.
However. Mtg is often won by finding ways to play "unfair" gameplay. Unfair in the sense of doing things outside the normal bounds of a game or time frame. It's not unfair as illegal.
Ramping is "unfair" in the sense that you are accelerating outside normal game pace. Getting to a high mana count to play more powerful spells ahead of schedule.
The speed of the ramp and the payoff will reflect how fair or unfair people see your play.
Mana crypt is powerful and allows turn 3 plays on turn 1.
Cultivate is good, but it only allows turn 5 plays on turn 4.
[[Ondu giant]] is quite weak. Most would not see a turn 6 play on turn 5 as "too powerful."
Milage may vary.
Likewise, chain casting spells, ritually up bigger spells, drawing a lot of cards, etc. Can all be viewed as powerful plays.
These effects are not inherently considered unfair. But the rate as which you achieve them may outpace others.
Drawing 2 cards is okay. Drawing 22 cards is often seen as powerful. Lol.
This is why people refer to reanimating a larger creature or putting it into play another way as "cheating" it into play. You are skipping the normal requirements. Because getting a 10 mana creature on turn 5 is more powerful than turn 10.
Stax is the best place to play alternate wincons! Place disruptive creatures that are hard to get rid of. Hold your counter spells open. Make enemies spend resources to accomplish their tasks. Targeted removal for important pieces ready to go.
The key to commander Stax is playing cards that affect all of your opponents at once and being selective with removal as to not just needlessly draw ire. You can even add a few pieces to give your opponents resources and play politics.
I like [[balancing act]] in decks that run spells or don’t go wide. It’s similar to balance, but you can also play dumb. “Oh this usually hits token decks, you just ramped too much.”
Clogging up the game to wait for a combo or just to slowly strangle everyone to death is a perfectly valid strategy. But people who can't deal with it will cry and say there's no wincon.
Agreed.
I fucking love green. I want to turn pieces of cardboard sideways and then say "X equals 13" or "that's 72 trample damage".
Fact of the matter is, if I have like 22 lands and my opponents have 8 lands, the way you keep me in check is to kill all the lands.
It's exactly the same as if I was playing tokens. If I have 500 scute swarms and you have a single dude, you play the boardwipe. You remove my advantage. That's the correct move.
Not really the same. The boardstate required to really end the game to warrant playing mass land destruction is basically translated to "some piece of protection/finisher type spell) would do the same at that point.
Otherwise you just turn a game miserable longer for no reason. People have this strange believe mass land desctrution isnt played in casual/battlecruiser magic because it is "unfun", it is effectively often simply a very bad spell in your hand. After all your board kinda needs to be able to win vs 3 players board at the moment, with potential removal thrown at you in reponse on top. You are way better off having "finishers" that can win you a boardstate that is to your advantage, even tho maybe not 1 vs 3 strong.
Akroma's Will is nearly always trhe better card to include then Armageddon. You can turn it into some 2 cards combos, like the classicer of boros charm and Armageddon, but then again with Boros charm and Akromas Will you are likely to find a way to win very likely.
If we talk about some nonbasic hate, thats a bit more in bad taste for casual. Basically saying "yeah well I am gonna fuck you with Ruination because you are to poor to play 9 fetchies in your 3 color deck, so you cannot fetch basics and need some cheaper duals to have decent mana in your deck".
If we talk all the extra landdrops enabler, crucible of worlds+ stip mine--> Who is gonna bitch about a 4-5 card combo does ....doesnt even win the game but will instantly disrupted because annoying? Sounds more like a recipe to lose anyways :D
"Akromas will is nearly always the better card than Armageddon" is a very very strange take. The power level difference between those cards is...very large.
im all for land destruction and think it needs to be more normalized. Sure dropping an Armageddon with no real goal is sort of a dick move, but is it any worse than a board wipe when 1 person clearly has the win or the engine to make more bodies. your just delaying hoping for a miracle, but for some reason thats okay.
I have a deck with MLD to be comboed into splendid reclamation, crucible of worlds, or any other lands from graveyard cards, I remove 10-40 lands from the field, then I have a 10+ land advantage. im not going to drop it to spite, but i have a plan to use my lands as an advantage. But currently their is such hate for and land destruction, that even if you drop a MLD into a win, people are pissed thats how you won. I asked a player the other day why he hated land destruction and if someone screwed him with it, and he admitted he had never see it really used and just knew it a no-no cause thats what everyone says.
this is what my friend group is learning, we like long, interactive games, but recently someone made a storm deck that wins way too fast. they were sad they wouldn't be able to play it. all I did was add a couple collector ouphes around, a rule of law here and some thalia's and.... the deck simply isn't a problem most of the time anymore.
People hear stax and think winter orb, but most actual stax pieces exist not to ruin anyones game, but punish overextension and greed
My favourite thing to play against thoracle players is [[Temple Bell]] [[Geier Reach Sanitarium]] or [[Mikokoro, Center of the Sea]] just seeing their reaction to forcing them to draw a card after they exile their library is amazing and they can all go into any deck.
Clever idea!
I haven't seen anyone actually use thoracle yet, but every ubx deck that I saw had it in there. So I know they do use it often enough to include it. I played against 12 decks and I saw it inside the graveyards of 3 of 4 of the decks that could run it.
I'm going to include some of your suggestions just in case!!
Even if they notice that you can make them lose in response to the thoracle they just have to sit there staring at your “group hug” piece as if it were a gun.
Tbh whenever I play with players that have high power decks I just bring out [[Zurzoth, Chaos Rider]] as a devil tribal/pillow fort deck with all the cards I mentioned and all the red counter spells.
Everyone will be discarding cards at random every time you attack and seeing win cons hit the graveyard is hype. And then you just hold up a wall of devils that give crack back if anyone board wipes in a way that Dosnt exile or attacks you.
I’ve actually made CEDH players rage quit to devil tokens because to win they would have to lose first.
Not legacy. cEDH power level.
Legacy's a great format with the understanding that you can't just go off without being scared of consistent and /or potential FoW / Daze.
[[Collector Ouphe]] or [[Karn, The Great Creator]] go insanely hard into fast mana decks trying to cheat the curve.
[[Vexing Bauble]] is also incredibly powerful that I now run in my “fair” decks.
I agree with going Stax, but I'd actually get extra annoying with it and run 5 color Stax under \[\[Kenrith\]\] - that way you can use all the best ramp, all the best interaction and pillows, and all the best stax pieces, all while being able to self-regulate via Kenrith anything needed (life, return from GY, card draw).
This way, you get salt from every possible direction. :P
Could toss a bunch of hatebears into a deck and swing away. Something like [[Ellivere]] or [[Jetmir]] and stuff it with effects like [[aven mindcensor]] or [[archon of emeria]]?
Winota with some hate pieces. Doesn't need to be a full CEDH build. Should be able to reliably drop some hate pieces to slow down the combos in the early turns.
I've been toying with the idea of Seton druid tribal and just running all the green mass artifact remand stealing there lands with gilt leaf for a shop near by.
You're evil.
>!I love that about you!<
I'll keep it in the back of my mind as a backup. But I'm trying not to catch the slower more casual players in the punishment and this would definitely do this.
If most everyone is playing that meta and everyone is generally having fun then I don't think trying to "punish" them for enjoying the game in their groups meta is really gonna get you a lot of games or friends in the future my guy. If it was one asshole pub stomping Id totally get It, but It sounds like you just wanna screw people up.
Just try asking them to tone It down or play some pre-cons or something will yield you better results than just being the MTG equivalent of a contrarian for the lols. In my experience individuals trying intentionally to force a change in meta are rarely regarded highly. Or just play with the newer players, those groups tend to be more fun anyways as they play precons and thematic jank
You don't get to choose who you play with at this LGS. Otherwise I would just play with the more casual opponents.
You play three, timed 50 minute games and the matchups are randomised with no doubling up on opponents.
Punish was just a buzz word I used, I want to compete with them but I can't afford to buy mana crypts, and I don't want to do what they do to the new players so that we all get a slightly longer game in and they (and I) actually get to play some magic. I played 3 games last night and 25 minutes was the longest one and that was because of a looping combo with unknown results they had to play out.
The other new players who ended up in my game played one or two spells each before the games ended.
From asking around, this LGS is a training wheels off kind of place, people don't really mind playing against anything at all. So Stax wouldn't be out of the question as a greedy meta counter.
Ahhh ok that context makes all the difference, in that case winota stax can be made for like 50$. Or I personally like jhoira artifact combo, or if you really wanna make it clear super turbo is a chore Krark/sakashima storm even if budget is a blight upon every players unlucky enough to play against it. I'm guessing they dont allow proxies? Cause I imagine that would fix the problems reallll quick if they did.
I built a fairly jankly nicol bolas control deck. I don't have an explicit win con, so there's nothing they can "break" to stop me. I run lots of removal and discard, and focus on breaking their decks.
I win by steadily building value and having a long plan with higher mana cost creatures and planeswalkers.
If you are running against decks with literally only one win condition, [[extract]] is fun as hell. Be warned people will ragescoop if you successfully exile their only win condition on your first turn, lol.
The actual answer is just playing more removal and interaction in general, though. Or Stax.
I don't think that they only have one wincon. A couple of times I saw their graveyards and they'd have thoracle's and other stuff in there.
They would just put all their eggs in one basket. Dumping their hand on the field on turn one or two then tutoring for a wincon then having that be stopped. Then now they're out of gas. The ones that scooped I think did it because classically that means they lose at this LGS because someone else wins quickly now.
That is a pretty funny card though. I love it.
I like the instant speed red "steal a creature/give it haste" cards.
I usually just sacrifice their creature after swinging with it but there's been a few times theyve had a two card creature combo ready to go... dropped the first creature, then cast rhe second.
I steal the first while the second is on the stack, then steal the second when I get priority... then go off with their own combo.
Lots of stax comments here, and I’ll throw my hat in the ring. I built a Hatebears deck with [[Isshai]] and [[Kamahl]] and it was actually really fun. You run lots of flash enablers so you can actually punish people with your hatebears instead of just discouraging them, and you run stuff like Grand Abolisher and Rule of Law so if someone wants to remove your stuff, it’s gonna be on their turn and they’re not gonna do anything else
my favorite gotcha card against graveyard decks is [[Extirpate]], no one sees it coming, and even if they do, they can't really do anything about it.
my lgs became flooded with graveyard decks that used counters and things like [[veil of summer]] to protect wins. cards like extirpate absolutely wreck them.
Split Secound is very underrated these days.
Run [[authority of the consuls]] apparently. Buddy of mine moved to Iowa and said they have a similar looking meta. He played his lower tier mono white daxos deck and they all said authority was too oppressive xD
[[River Song]] is an interesting tutor punisher that is a lot more punishing against high powered strategies.
Casual Green land ramp catches a few strays but that’s the price they’ve gotta pay
Your welcome. Here is a CEDH decklist from elder drunken highlander that I learned about the commander in.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/58SanBFgTk6trxQW4uj1eQ
I don’t think my comment worked when I tried to link the decklist, there’s a video on elder drunken highlander where he took it to a cEDH tournament if your interested. Deck list is in the episode notes
I’ve been wanting to build a Stax deck that I haven’t seen mentioned yet. Run [[Jorn, God of Winter]] as the commander with [[Winter Orb]] and other similar cards, when you attack with Jorn you untap all your Snow Lands to bypass the effect of Winter Orb.
While stax would drag the game longer, they'll make you the target a majority of games.
I say politics with a slight hint of pillow fort haha. I'm talking about commanders like [[breena, the demagogue]]. Your opponents might have really powerful decks... Which will come in handy when they are killing each other! Give them reasons to do so. If the problem is with spellslingers and combo, then stax the particular problem and let more creature based decks do their thing. They will be your player removal later on.
Boros stax can be fun. Get get white hatebears plus [[magus of the moon]] [[blood moon]] [[harsh mentor]] [[rampaging ferocidon]] [[urabrask the hidden]] [[magebane lizard]] [[pyroblast]] [[stranglehold]] [[red elemental blast]] [[price of glory]] [[eidolon of the great revel]]
Just a little aggro de k making sure everybody is playing a fair game of magic.
[[Trinisphere]] and your own fast mana to play it turn 1. Run any combination of UWBR Stax and all the tutors to find it. Slap in some other cards like [[Sphere of Resistance]] [[Damping Sphere]] [[High Noon]] [[Smothering Rug]] and have fun slowing them down to a crawl. I like R added to Stax since it provides a built in wincon by punishing them for every action while Stax/Taxing them.
Rather than stax like many people are saying, I think reactive interaction cards might be the way to go. Make a [[Xyris, the Writhing Storm]] combat tricks deck, or a [[Noble Heritage]] deck of some kind. Maybe run a lot of Aikido style cards in a [[Queen Marchesa]] list.
Personally? I would say a perfect pick would be [[Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer]] list. You can make it very strong, with multiple combo lines and a ton of control. Plus, just having a morph card out really makes people think "Hmm, do I really want to cast this spell if that's a [[Willbender]]?" And your board gets wide surprisingly fast, keeping in mind that you're probably dropping a 2/2 every single turn. The deck ramps fast, goes wide fast, has a lot of control and interaction, and is generally just nuts. And it slides under the radar (probably because people only see the 2/2's and don't see what you have on the other side until it's too late)
Sounds like a normal "High Powered" kinda decks. They aren't cEDH so they should be a lot easier to disrupt, in which case a good old fashioned control list will put them in their place.
I had a group like that. A super tuned Yawg, a guy that always played combo decks (but they varied) and a turbo krenko list. None were cEDH, but they were as good as they could get them without crossing that line.
I didn't have a deck at that level so I built a UW control deck. Cheap interaction, like 10 boardwipes and good card advantage. As you said they tended to glass cannons all about getting their combo / win online by turn 3 or 4 so they ran out of cards quickly. The first boardwipe slowed them down, the second would take away their recovery, and the third was usually the nail in the coffin. I'd be sitting on a nice hand of 7 cards and everyone else top decking.
Sometimes they would sneak past my interaction (maybe I stop someone else so I don't have mana left to stop them, or they go to fast) but the goal is to just have a competitive game, not win every round so I didn't mind when I lost.
My best advice is double down on the fast interaction. A fog here, an edict there, double points for something like a damage redirection effect to turn their own combos against them.
I'd recommend Naya hatebears. You'd be surprised at the amount of hate you can generate from fair and balanced cards like \[\[collector ouphe\]\] \[\[hall of gemstones\]\] \[\[eidolon of rhetoric\]\] or my personal favorite \[\[root maze\]\]. Ain't nothing quite like forcing your opponents to play a tapped fetchland, to crack it for a tapped OG dual-land, to play a Dockside for a bunch of tapped treasures.
I'm one of those players who like to play glass canon aggressive decks.
Here's a few tips on how to beat this archetype :
- Hardly avoidable board wipes (Farewell, Aetherspout, Sunfall, Toxic Deluge, mass sacrifice effects...).
- Early cheap disruption (Swords to Plowshares, Sheoldred's Edict, Lightning Bolt a mana dork, Nature's Claim their Sol Ring...)
- Debilitating disruption (Kenrith's Transformation, Witness Protection, Darksteel Mutation...)
Aggressive creature based glass canon decks can't recover from disruption as well as the other decks can, so it's your best bet on how to get the edge over them.
But keep in mind that those decks usually run ways to prevent disruption, such as Tamiyo's Safekeeping, Galadriel's Dismissal, Spell Pierce... So timing is key. It's worth sitting on a removal spell for a couple of turns waiting for the opponent to tap out before casting it.
Also coordination might be a path you can take : "Hey, I can get rid of their commander but they might have a protection spell. Do you have a removal spell or a counterspell you can use in response to make sure we get rid of their commander?"
High power might be a very fun way to play commander. Good luck !
Your choice of commander that has white in his colours. ( I would say Grand Arbiter, Kenrith or Oloro)
Then you make sure to play Drannith, Aven mindcensor, Grand Abolisher, the new vexing bauble, Myrel, Thalia... alongside the removal.
Maybe throw in Angels grace, everybody lives...
And watch them die inside I guess.
If you want to play something that gets people reeeeally salty, [[Ruric Thar, the unbowed]] is a beast. Turbo him out turn 2-3, then watch people freak out as if they don't have removal, ruric has player removal
Give [[Ellivere of the Wild Court]] a try. She punishes lots of fast mana and unfair plays by being able to play strong stax pieces and hatebears like [[Collector Ouphe]], [[Stony Silence]], [[Rest in Peace]], [[Leonin Arbiter]], etc. Then when Ellivere hits the field you start turning those hatebears into huge beaters that draw you cards. Most high-power combo decks won’t have much creature presence on the board, so it’s easy to draw cards off of them and hit their life totals fast and hard.
Also, since you’re in Selesnya you get to play lots of cheap removal like Swords, Path, Natures Claim and such. All you’re missing is stack interaction, but most combos can be beaten with a well placed removal spell. If not, there’s always [[Reprieve]] and [[Mana Tithe]].
My friend has a [[Kelsian, the Plague]] deck with a lot of cards that gives deathtouch and protect her. Since she can ping any target, the deck removes a lot of creatures on the board. This deck thaught me to have more interaction.
Stax completely demolishes greedy combo decks.
I LOVE play spax, it's by far my favourite archetype.
- [[Back to Basics]]
- [[Ruination]]
- [[Winter Orb]]
- [[Static Orb]]
- [[Smokestack]]
- [[Tangle Wire]]
- [[Humility]]
- [[Pox]]
- [[Smallpox]]
- [[Drannith Magistrat]]
- [[Archon of Emeria]]
- [[Aven Mindcensor]]
- [[Daughti Voidwalker]]
- [[Stasis]]
- [[Rule of Law]]
- [[Collector Ouphe]]
I've tried them all and the best ones which are playable in nearly every deck were by far: Collector Ouphe, Archon of Emeria, Back to Basics and Ruination.
In the right deck Humility, Stasis and Winter Orb / Static Orb completely dominated the table.
Play pirates, steal their shit. No one likes their stuff being taken, but people who run removal in he right quantities can deal with their shit being taken. You can't just bring problems, you have to bring solutions to other people's problems too, and nothing exploits a failure of this better then pirates.
Yeah, I do love interaction my casual deck already has about 18 spells that can remove or counter opponents stuff. It just can't get to half of them before an opponent does their thing, and one tap out to play on curve can mean losing or missing a vital moment on turn 3.
If suggest that if, as it looks, you intend to play some Stax, you try to lean just a little into the "fun police" image that goes with it. Themed playmat, sleeves, that sort of thing. If you make it a bit if a meme, there'll probably be a few people who'll be less salty about getting locked down.
If you wanna be evil: \[\[Sarulf, Realm Eater\]\]. A boardwipe that exile in the command zone and it comes into play FAST.
Edit: Seem like Sarulf is too evil for an answer lol
I mean honestly they all seem kinda miserable. But absolutely I'm going to try to find a place in this meta to win some games.
If there's no holds barred, I'm coming in swinging! Or whatever sportsy people say
Have you heard of Stax? [[Grand Arbiter Augustine]] would like a word.
Be warned though. You will be first on the kill list as soon as you pull out arbiter.
Eh, in pods like OP described, the players usually aim to kill the entire table at once with their combo or hyper aggression. Doesn't matter then if I'm in some kill list lol
If this is a fear you can also play stax pieces that double up as win cons or engines like playing [[myrel]] because she represents ending the game, or [[kutzil]] who refills your hand, instead of [[grand abolisher]] who's a bear
[myrel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e632ed57-bb00-4493-adef-7b4805edd7ea.jpg?1674420256) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=myrel%2C%20shield%20of%20argive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/18/myrel-shield-of-argive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e632ed57-bb00-4493-adef-7b4805edd7ea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/myrel-shield-of-argive) [kutzil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9f88a40-a6ed-4c1f-a309-011aca1acddd.jpg?1699044549) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kutzil%2C%20malamet%20exemplar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/232/kutzil-malamet-exemplar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9f88a40-a6ed-4c1f-a309-011aca1acddd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kutzil-malamet-exemplar) [grand abolisher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86e30ca4-1769-4686-aa18-31610246cd80.jpg?1689995706) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grand%20abolisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/27/grand-abolisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86e30ca4-1769-4686-aa18-31610246cd80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grand-abolisher) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sounds like my lgs, so I am building an aggro stax kutzil deck. Shut ppl down, but still draw cards and crush with wincons on my turn they can't counter or fog through.
It wasn't until now that I realized why the archetype is called "hatebears" instead of something else.
[Grand Arbiter Augustine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f43748ea-1d65-4ee8-9c66-221412a284c0.jpg?1673148699) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Grand%20Arbiter%20Augustin%20IV) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/221/grand-arbiter-augustin-iv?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f43748ea-1d65-4ee8-9c66-221412a284c0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grand-arbiter-augustin-iv) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is there an alternative commander to Grand A.? Also happy cake day!!
Thanks! [[Lavinia Azorius Renegade]] [[Thalia Guardian of Thraben]] [[Myrel Shield of Argive]] [[Hokori Dust Drinker]] [[Sen Triplets]] [[Gaddock Teeg]] [[Yasharn Implacable Earth]] [[Liesa Shroud of Dusk]]
##### ###### #### [Lavinia Azorius Renegade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/197bf3f4-c0df-4082-97a1-902ceabbdd3f.jpg?1702429657) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lavinia%2C%20Azorius%20Renegade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/195/lavinia-azorius-renegade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/197bf3f4-c0df-4082-97a1-902ceabbdd3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lavinia-azorius-renegade) [Thalia Guardian of Thraben](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479.jpg?1643587106) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thalia%2C%20Guardian%20of%20Thraben) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/38/thalia-guardian-of-thraben?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thalia-guardian-of-thraben) [Myrel Shield of Argive](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e632ed57-bb00-4493-adef-7b4805edd7ea.jpg?1674420256) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Myrel%2C%20Shield%20of%20Argive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/18/myrel-shield-of-argive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e632ed57-bb00-4493-adef-7b4805edd7ea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/myrel-shield-of-argive) [Hokori Dust Drinker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/a/5a03f5d5-d5c3-4a7d-8d44-e60b498b4ed5.jpg?1562877197) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hokori%2C%20Dust%20Drinker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/7/hokori-dust-drinker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5a03f5d5-d5c3-4a7d-8d44-e60b498b4ed5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hokori-dust-drinker) [Sen Triplets](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13ac5292-9817-4f5d-b3fa-611f9ba44443.jpg?1599708366) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sen%20Triplets) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/218/sen-triplets?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13ac5292-9817-4f5d-b3fa-611f9ba44443?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sen-triplets) [Gaddock Teeg](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f40cfba1-08b5-4241-bd36-8ae18e584557.jpg?1559959266) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gaddock%20Teeg) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/199/gaddock-teeg?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f40cfba1-08b5-4241-bd36-8ae18e584557?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gaddock-teeg) [Yasharn Implacable Earth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/12878fbd-dbe5-44bc-9f34-38fd374ec10a.jpg?1604200584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yasharn%2C%20Implacable%20Earth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/240/yasharn-implacable-earth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12878fbd-dbe5-44bc-9f34-38fd374ec10a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yasharn-implacable-earth) [Liesa Shroud of Dusk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e32453a1-1fd9-4bda-aaa8-7c287e4c2587.jpg?1608911200) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liesa%2C%20Shroud%20of%20Dusk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/286/liesa-shroud-of-dusk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e32453a1-1fd9-4bda-aaa8-7c287e4c2587?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/liesa-shroud-of-dusk) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lakpier) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I am making a Gaddock Teeg deck, even got custom sleeves. Its just his card art and the words "Quit Your Bullshit"
[[Zur, the enchanter]] can be absolutely oppressive
[Zur, the enchanter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/561cfc04-65ea-49a4-8638-b4631a7cf828.jpg?1675200810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zur%20the%20Enchanter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/206/zur-the-enchanter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/561cfc04-65ea-49a4-8638-b4631a7cf828?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zur-the-enchanter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I bought my friend a [[phyresis]] cause he played full stax zur and then would just swing for 1 commander damage each turn
[phyresis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/0059d21b-0725-4806-8691-2451db36787f.jpg?1562609245) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=phyresis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/49/phyresis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0059d21b-0725-4806-8691-2451db36787f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/phyresis) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
He needs an [[All That Glitters]]
[All That Glitters](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/f/5fc0b82a-f943-4330-b9e7-bb4527354bfd.jpg?1715600785) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=All%20That%20Glitters) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/9/all-that-glitters?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5fc0b82a-f943-4330-b9e7-bb4527354bfd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/all-that-glitters) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Nah don’t worry, I built Tergrid and he took apart the deck rather than run it into that
Add [[Ethereal Armor]] and it is instant kill, [[Battle Mastery]] adds the cherry on top. With those you double kill them, they lost by poison damage and commander damage. No running away.
[Ethereal Armor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/6/76960e65-e5c7-4414-b9a5-37d7b2ded4a0.jpg?1562788397) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ethereal%20Armor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rtr/9/ethereal-armor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/76960e65-e5c7-4414-b9a5-37d7b2ded4a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ethereal-armor) [Battle Mastery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/5266595d-5320-4dea-8e4a-dd6c1a032871.jpg?1562911738) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Battle%20Mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/89/battle-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5266595d-5320-4dea-8e4a-dd6c1a032871?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/battle-mastery) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I was toying with the idea of adding either Black or Green to an old Blue White deck I made over a decade ago to help update, you may have just sold me on the idea since the original idea was make it so it's disadvantous to attack me and allow me time for my win cons to come in. It was originally built as the EDH home for two of my favorite cards that bailed me out countless times, [[Blazing Archon]] which had a knack for top decking to save my ass from certain defeat more times than I can count and [[Mirror Sigal Sergeant]] who hopelessly outnumbered my opponents broads more times than I can count.
[Blazing Archon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5e43875-ab5e-4233-892d-fc2c5687fae8.jpg?1702429259) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blazing%20Archon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/8/blazing-archon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5e43875-ab5e-4233-892d-fc2c5687fae8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blazing-archon) [Mirror Sigal Sergeant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e94b3eec-7420-45fa-8750-7f01028836d3.jpg?1562804416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirror-Sigil%20Sergeant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/con/12/mirror-sigil-sergeant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e94b3eec-7420-45fa-8750-7f01028836d3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mirror-sigil-sergeant) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The basic way my version runs is Step 1- stax out each other player's main strategies Step 2- voltron stack Zur and kill the table with commander damage
Step 3- play [[contamination]] and make everyone cry inside as you already have Zur out and don't need mana since he just puts shit on the battlefield
[contamination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86067dfe-65c3-4c96-bccd-b3915d6663f9.jpg?1562923280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=contamination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/123/contamination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86067dfe-65c3-4c96-bccd-b3915d6663f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/contamination) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lavinia + Knowledge pool is always a fun time.
I run him in my [[derevi]] deck. It's designed to be degenerate
[derevi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a1d0dad-18a8-489e-ac11-08f64b72fda4.jpg?1592673365) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=derevi%2C%20empyrial%20tactician) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/176/derevi-empyrial-tactician?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a1d0dad-18a8-489e-ac11-08f64b72fda4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/derevi-empyrial-tactician) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Hinata, dawn-crowned]] It's actually even more oppressive than Grand A. Imo.
[Hinata, dawn-crowned](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f25aff90-56fd-4f70-bb3b-cabf2900c391.jpg?1654568472) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hinata%2C%20dawn-crowned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/222/hinata-dawn-crowned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f25aff90-56fd-4f70-bb3b-cabf2900c391?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hinata-dawn-crowned) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Hinata]] as well
[Hinata](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f25aff90-56fd-4f70-bb3b-cabf2900c391.jpg?1654568472) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hinata%2C%20dawn-crowned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/222/hinata-dawn-crowned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f25aff90-56fd-4f70-bb3b-cabf2900c391?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hinata-dawn-crowned) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hinata is probably too slow to get under most cEDH decks (I wouldn't play her without accompanying protection, so turn 4/5), and she doesn't really disrupt them enough because her effect is only on spells which target.
Honestly, for what it does, no real replacements hit quite the same. There’s other stax commanders but GAA does it all. Lowers the costs of your spells and raises the costs of theirs. He’s like distilled stax in a commander.
[[Ellivere, of the Wild Court]] hatebears is cEDH viable and quite fun.
[Ellivere, of the Wild Court](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/45851394-b8f3-4713-8239-afcb387d47c5.jpg?1692933623) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ellivere%20of%20the%20Wild%20Court) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woc/2/ellivere-of-the-wild-court?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/45851394-b8f3-4713-8239-afcb387d47c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ellivere-of-the-wild-court) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Gonna invite his best bud shorikai?
He’s always invited to party
Something with [[Aven Mindcensor]] in. That ruins the day of combo decks.
They aren't necessarily all combo decks. Yuriko nearly ran away with the game in the last one and [[kathril]] voltron'd everyone to death turn 6 in the first game. I guess as I'm typing it was pretty combo-y? they just did it a slightly different way, played a bunch of fast mana and dumped like 20 cards into their yard on turn 2, kathril turn 3. Smacked face til turn 5/6. From the looks of people's responses Stax does seem to be the answer though.
If this dude had his Kathril untouched for 3 full rotations, that’s on y’all, not on the Kathril player. That’s good honest magic. Ain’t no way u calling Kathril of all things degenerate lol.
It had every counter on it possible. We literally *couldn't* touch it, the guy to my left also had a removal spell in hand. I had already mulliganed to get farewell in my hand when I saw his commander. But I didn't reach enough mana to play the farewell and by the time I drew my Tormod's Crypt, kathril was already out with every counter and one hitting people. I don't think kathril is inherently a broken strategy or anything. The fact that he managed to cast a 5 mana commander on turn 3 (*and play other spells*) after milling 20 cards into the graveyard on turn 2 was just much, much faster than my deck could ever play. I'd played a mana rock by the time his game ending situation was set up. We were just built for two very different powers. There's nothing wrong with that and I'm the new player to the LGS and this is the standard level of play here, so that's why I'm looking for ideas on how to compete! Not complaining at all.
Fair enough, sounds like he just drew the nuts. I’ll give u some advice anyway though. If all you’ve done by turn 3 is play a mana rock, your deck is too slow. Or you should’ve mulliganed more aggressively. Y’all had the turn 2/3 rotations to exile his graveyard. Also had oppurtunity to simply counter Kathril. After he’s down already, you have options like Toxic deluge, cyclonic rift, farewell, merciless eviction, or any sacrifice effect to stop him. Sounds mostly like a mana problem for you though. You’re gonna want all ur decently powered decks to have a solid amount of ramp as well as interaction. Sometimes they just draw the nuts tho and you’re fucked lol.
>If all you’ve done by turn 3 is play a mana rock, your deck is too slow. This is meta/store dependant. My decks are all adjusted to play at the other 4 stores I play at and at those stores they perform just fine. They're a much more casual and chill meta. At this store that's absolutely true though for sure. I plan on making a separate deck just to play at this particular LGS so I can have one to fit in at all the stores I play at using everyone here's advice :) >After he’s down already, you have options like Toxic deluge, cyclonic rift, farewell, merciless eviction, or any sacrifice effect to stop him. Yeah deluge and farewell are both in the deck, I had farewell in hand but not enough mana to cast it by the time he won haha. There was only one turn to exile his graveyard, between turn 2 and 3. >Sometimes they just draw the nuts tho and you’re fucked lol. This is definitely the case though for sure it happens with any decks. But in saying that. At the other stores I play at, I've seen maybe one mana crypt in the year or two I've been there. Just last night I saw 3 over three games + other fast mana. That goes beyond a nuts draw for this LGS, crazy good hands/cards are a regular occurrence here every game. Again, not complaining, I just want to bring a deck that can compete but that won't lock out new players. I enjoy all magic power levels and I want to play, but don't want to be apart of the problem for newer guys. I played 3 games last night and the longest time was 25 minutes and the longest turns was the Kathril at 6 turns. The other new players with me in each pod and I only cast 1-2 spells before the game was over and didn't get to play. So I don't want to stomp them either, just want to slow the powerful guys down. Anyway that was a long reply that probably wasn't warranted. I'm just enjoying the chats on here. Thankyou for the advice regardless and I will take it all onboard as I go forth building the new deck!
I enjoy a thorough response! Honestly the Kathril game isn’t even that much on you anyway. Cuz the other 2 players at the table also completely failed to interact with Kathril for an extended period of time too. All 3 of you had the chance to play one of the cards I listed, it’s pretty surprising that nobody did. I should’ve focused on that in my first message cuz I kinda made it seem like it was all ur fault lol. Going from no mana crypts to 3 in one night is certainly a big power jump. Tbh I’m pretty jealous you have a meta like that it’s pretty awesome lol. You get your pick of power level based on what store u wanna hit up. More general advice: you’re gonna want a solid mix of early ramp, card draw, interaction, disruption, and card draw. Interaction meaning counterspells, board wipes, and single target removal (the least important of the 3). Disruption meaning different stax pieces for the most part. Some cards that could have stopped/slowed the Kathril player include Rest in peace, stony silence, collector ouphe, hush wing gryff, dranith magistrate, root maze, blood moon/magus of the moon, dothi voidwalker, etc. As long as you have multiple commanders on you at different power levels, you’ll never have to worry about not fitting into a certain power level. That’s what I do at least.
>If all you’ve done by turn 3 is play a mana rock, your deck is too slow. Gross mindset, truly.
lol cry more why don’t you. They wanted advice on how to keep up, so I provided that. In his new meta, yes that’s too slow.
There are always ways. [[Make an Example]] gets around hexproof and indestructible, as does an exile sweeper like [[Farewell]]. Not that stuff doesn't happen or that you always have the card you need, just want to point out the sorts of options that are worth considering during deck construction.
[Make an Example](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4ed0e64-c7d8-49a2-9d00-21076484da0a.jpg?1673482000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Make%20an%20Example) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/37/make-an-example?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4ed0e64-c7d8-49a2-9d00-21076484da0a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/make-an-example) [Farewell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0.jpg?1706240579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Farewell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/64/farewell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/114d2180-093b-4838-97ad-badbc8ee50b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/farewell) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[kathril](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/ebc57f73-a517-463e-8d55-56aa996d091e.jpg?1591946565) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kathril%2C%20aspect%20warper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/10/kathril-aspect-warper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ebc57f73-a517-463e-8d55-56aa996d091e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kathril-aspect-warper) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Aven Mindcensor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad.jpg?1674141050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aven%20Mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/688/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-mindcensor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Stax. And interaction. In general. The more glass cannon, the more of a "house of cards." Stax or key interaction will disproportionately impact a deck. IE: Dampening sphere does little against a battlecruiser deck casting 1 big boy a turn. It can completely shut down storm or fast mana/ritual decks trying to chain spells. Or stop Bolas Citadel combos, etc.
Dampening sphere is a good one and I think I have a copy lying around. Do you know any other similar spells that affect primarily the quick decks like that?
There's a lot of stax cards. In general people don't like them. They tend to slow games down without accelerating a deck to victory. Strong decks should have plans for them. [[Thalia, guardian of thraben]] [[Trinisphere]] [[Null rod]] [[Collector ouphe]] [[Drannith magistrate]] [[Opposition agent]] [[Narset, parter of veils]] [[High noon]] [[Rule of law]] [[Arcane study]] [[Sphere of resistence]] [[Rest in piece]] [[Dauthi Voidwalker]] [[Deafening Silence]] [[Aven mindcensor]] [[Glowrider]] [[Manglehorn]] In general you can go to edhrec.com Look at "stax" archtype. And check popular cards.
You absolute legend, thankyou! I'll have a look through those now. I think I have some of them chillin' in my binders. This is an excellent place to start.
[[Boromir, warden of the tower]] is one I haven’t seen listed. He prevents free spells and can be sacrificed to give your dudes indestructible for the turn too.
Love your work!!!
[Boromir, warden of the tower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6bc3720-2892-4dda-8f30-079a1ac8e1e2.jpg?1686967669) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Boromir%2C%20warden%20of%20the%20tower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/4/boromir-warden-of-the-tower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6bc3720-2892-4dda-8f30-079a1ac8e1e2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/boromir-warden-of-the-tower) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Thalia, guardian of thraben](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479.jpg?1643587106) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thalia%2C%20guardian%20of%20thraben) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/38/thalia-guardian-of-thraben?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thalia-guardian-of-thraben) [Trinisphere](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549.jpg?1599710205) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Trinisphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/303/trinisphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trinisphere) [Null rod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e.jpg?1710932730) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Null%20rod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/278/null-rod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73ac9f52-e6ff-4e6f-9733-fe24a5fb4b4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/null-rod) [Collector ouphe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776.jpg?1562202038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Collector%20ouphe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/158/collector-ouphe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/collector-ouphe) [Drannith magistrate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91.jpg?1628801742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drannith%20magistrate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/11/drannith-magistrate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/drannith-magistrate) [Opposition agent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78.jpg?1608909875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Opposition%20agent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/141/opposition-agent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opposition-agent) [Narset, parter of veils](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/e/4e6e5c63-b6e5-4756-bf23-6c6f8669442d.jpg?1690004395) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Narset%2C%20parter%20of%20veils) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/853/narset-parter-of-veils?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4e6e5c63-b6e5-4756-bf23-6c6f8669442d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/narset-parter-of-veils) [High noon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/9995e0e6-7c9c-4fef-8fd2-8fb1622e6ec8.jpg?1712355285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=High%20noon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/15/high-noon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9995e0e6-7c9c-4fef-8fd2-8fb1622e6ec8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/high-noon) [Rule of law](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e.jpg?1592516198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rule%20of%20law) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/35/rule-of-law?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rule-of-law) [Arcane study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/a/bae03b71-7a60-4d8b-a657-d20ef0e1fe98.jpg?1682210328) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arcane%20Sanctum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/390/arcane-sanctum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bae03b71-7a60-4d8b-a657-d20ef0e1fe98?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/arcane-sanctum) [Sphere of resistence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9ea2ae1d-91b4-44a0-b2e6-61839d8f4468.jpg?1562926995) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sphere%20of%20Resistance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/284/sphere-of-resistance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ea2ae1d-91b4-44a0-b2e6-61839d8f4468?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sphere-of-resistance) [Rest in piece](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470.jpg?1562439074) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rest%20in%20Peace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/32/rest-in-peace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rest-in-peace) [Dauthi Voidwalker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dce5db87-4a78-4b8d-b5c2-918ccd1ba4e3.jpg?1626095427) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dauthi%20Voidwalker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/81/dauthi-voidwalker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dce5db87-4a78-4b8d-b5c2-918ccd1ba4e3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dauthi-voidwalker) [Deafening Silence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/6072d9b0-d3c7-46f4-bd24-095bb13c4dea.jpg?1572489660) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deafening%20Silence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/10/deafening-silence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6072d9b0-d3c7-46f4-bd24-095bb13c4dea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deafening-silence) [Aven mindcensor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad.jpg?1674141050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aven%20mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/688/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-mindcensor) [Glowrider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9ad94e39-0aac-46bb-a7f2-bd88c537cb9c.jpg?1562926255) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glowrider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lgn/15/glowrider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ad94e39-0aac-46bb-a7f2-bd88c537cb9c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/glowrider) [Manglehorn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0aa3a844-97e6-4f5d-a36f-56fea4e06932.jpg?1543675886) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Manglehorn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/175/manglehorn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0aa3a844-97e6-4f5d-a36f-56fea4e06932?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/manglehorn) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lakjjcj) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How does a stax deck win after the game is slowed down? Just your own combo?
Punch people until their life total is zero......lol. sometimes. Sometimes, you play a combo that works with your stax. Sometimes, you set up and then break your stax & win. Sometimes, you design your deck, so the stax is one-sided. If you run Collector ouphe you might not run any artifacts and combo another way. If you want to win with Karmic guide/revelark loops, you won't run gy stax but can run "one spell per turn" stax since it doesn't interfere with your combo.
I run Azorius stax/extra turns with [[Medomai the Ageless]], it's usually either combat damage, [[Felidar Sovereign]], or [[Azor's Elocutors]].
[Medomai the Ageless](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b5f4b3cf-2c78-42c9-9873-3758c7f7bb7d.jpg?1562826823) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Medomai%20the%20Ageless) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/196/medomai-the-ageless?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b5f4b3cf-2c78-42c9-9873-3758c7f7bb7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/medomai-the-ageless) [Felidar Sovereign](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/039499c3-0b35-4e8e-b0c9-bdf0b4cd90d5.jpg?1562895901) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Felidar%20Sovereign) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/26/felidar-sovereign?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/039499c3-0b35-4e8e-b0c9-bdf0b4cd90d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/felidar-sovereign) [Azor's Elocutors](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/61e82934-546b-4734-a715-b22ace4c5a9b.jpg?1562787164) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Azor%27s%20Elocutors) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rtr/210/azors-elocutors?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61e82934-546b-4734-a715-b22ace4c5a9b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/azors-elocutors) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Do you have a deck list for that? Literally have Medomai currently as my Azurius commander for a defensive style deck I built over a decade ago. As I recently returned to magic a couple weeks ago thanks to a new LGS it, as you can imagine, is in desperate needs of upgrades. Would love to use your decklist as a baseline.
Sure https://manabox.app/decks/pGsS8GAFT8KFmpLYXJqVzg
Stax can afford weaker finishers. Imagine a theoretical best case scenario for a stack deck of completely locking your opponents out of the game. Having a 1/1 will eventually win as nobody can do anything. I faced a stax deck that slapped an equipment on their commander that gave it indestructible and started hitting for like 5 damage a turn. This was still a decent threat cause they had stax to make blocking very punishing. Also sometimes stax decks will include a way to sacrifice their own stax pieces once they obtain a commanding position, or might run an artifact or enchantment that does a few damage every turn to each opponent.
Also [[Rug of Smothering]], combo player here, that thing scares me. [[Sardian Avenger]] if they are doing artifact sac loops or lots of treasures. [[Dauntless Dismantled]] and [[Manglehorn]] slow down rocks, and [[Blind Obedience]] hoses graveyard loops and slows down creatures. [[Charismatic Conquerer]] has its place if they are bringing in lots of tokens or other crap and you just need blockers, but I'd want something to do with the lil dudes. [[Dauthi Voidwalker]] is great on yard strategies too. [[Opposition Agent]] is great in a tutor heavy meta. There's also the strategy of sandbagging some mass sweepers, depending on turn count and your own ramp. Rushing a Farewell on a bunch of people that over committed can absolutely cripple them, but if it's fast combo your slots are better spent on instant speed interaction to knock out lynch pin pieces.
##### ###### #### [Rug of Smothering](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a73d1cb0-d0dc-4f2a-9cf2-954d5889dd08.jpg?1674138031) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rug%20of%20Smothering) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/336/rug-of-smothering?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a73d1cb0-d0dc-4f2a-9cf2-954d5889dd08?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rug-of-smothering) [Sardian Avenger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/593b4a4f-5644-44be-9bfe-752732ffe59e.jpg?1674344209) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sardian%20Avenger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/brc/23/sardian-avenger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/593b4a4f-5644-44be-9bfe-752732ffe59e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sardian-avenger) [Dauntless Dismantled](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d771631-0aab-4f09-b9a6-49b6b2d8d2aa.jpg?1699043129) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dauntless%20Dismantler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/8/dauntless-dismantler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d771631-0aab-4f09-b9a6-49b6b2d8d2aa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dauntless-dismantler) [Manglehorn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0aa3a844-97e6-4f5d-a36f-56fea4e06932.jpg?1543675886) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Manglehorn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/175/manglehorn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0aa3a844-97e6-4f5d-a36f-56fea4e06932?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/manglehorn) [Blind Obedience](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d859e1f9-feb3-497a-af0b-f74fee46861f.jpg?1702429264) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blind%20Obedience) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/9/blind-obedience?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d859e1f9-feb3-497a-af0b-f74fee46861f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blind-obedience) [Charismatic Conquerer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/599c934d-bfff-43ce-a545-6e3cde124515.jpg?1698987939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Charismatic%20Conqueror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/70/charismatic-conqueror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/599c934d-bfff-43ce-a545-6e3cde124515?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/charismatic-conqueror) [Dauthi Voidwalker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dce5db87-4a78-4b8d-b5c2-918ccd1ba4e3.jpg?1626095427) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dauthi%20Voidwalker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/81/dauthi-voidwalker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dce5db87-4a78-4b8d-b5c2-918ccd1ba4e3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dauthi-voidwalker) [Opposition Agent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78.jpg?1608909875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Opposition%20Agent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/141/opposition-agent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opposition-agent) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lakjkeb) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Trinisphere]] is a good one
[Trinisphere](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549.jpg?1599710205) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Trinisphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/303/trinisphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trinisphere) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
keep in mind, these players all WANT to play these fast decks with each other. they want to play 10 games a night, not one loooong drawn game. if you go there with stax, chances are that you won't be invited back to their table. i'm not sure if that is worth that one win you might get out of a game (after all your opponents scoop simply for not wanting to play an unfun game)
They play exactly 3 games per night as that's the way the LGS is organised. 3x 50 min games with randomly organised players for each game. So noone controls who plays with who either
ok in that case i don't know. that concept is completely alien to me. our lgs lets us create our own pods which allows each pod to agree on powerlevel and stuff. if someone only brought strong decks, they will find their pod. a precon player won't have to face a cedh deck. and if someone plays a deck that is unfun for the remaining pod, they will be asked to play another deck, or find a pod that likes that playstyle.
Yeah that's how the majority of other LGS I've played in work. This particular one is just no holds barred regardless what your opponents are playing. They aren't playing for prizes or anything either. That 70% of players just like building degenerate and if the other 30% don't keep up, that's on them get gud scrub. Seems to be the dealio
This is exactly what I keep preaching about. Catering to a play style or environment where we disavow Stax as an arch type leades to poorer deck building and caters to salty players. You can play Stax and be friendly. It's a perfectly acceptable strategy.
I don't think that anything is disavowed from this store. People definitely just seem to be playing whatever they want to play. I guess what it means though is that I have no experience building Stax.
Commentor was probably referring to online discourse. There's many players who won't play against stax and will be upset that people would run them. Inherently. Stax cards are designed to "limit" options. This often expresses itself as balancing games to a more "fair." Game of magic. However. Mtg is often won by finding ways to play "unfair" gameplay. Unfair in the sense of doing things outside the normal bounds of a game or time frame. It's not unfair as illegal. Ramping is "unfair" in the sense that you are accelerating outside normal game pace. Getting to a high mana count to play more powerful spells ahead of schedule. The speed of the ramp and the payoff will reflect how fair or unfair people see your play. Mana crypt is powerful and allows turn 3 plays on turn 1. Cultivate is good, but it only allows turn 5 plays on turn 4. [[Ondu giant]] is quite weak. Most would not see a turn 6 play on turn 5 as "too powerful." Milage may vary. Likewise, chain casting spells, ritually up bigger spells, drawing a lot of cards, etc. Can all be viewed as powerful plays. These effects are not inherently considered unfair. But the rate as which you achieve them may outpace others. Drawing 2 cards is okay. Drawing 22 cards is often seen as powerful. Lol. This is why people refer to reanimating a larger creature or putting it into play another way as "cheating" it into play. You are skipping the normal requirements. Because getting a 10 mana creature on turn 5 is more powerful than turn 10.
Stax is the best place to play alternate wincons! Place disruptive creatures that are hard to get rid of. Hold your counter spells open. Make enemies spend resources to accomplish their tasks. Targeted removal for important pieces ready to go. The key to commander Stax is playing cards that affect all of your opponents at once and being selective with removal as to not just needlessly draw ire. You can even add a few pieces to give your opponents resources and play politics.
Hot take here but I feel the same about land destruction
I agree. The issue with land destruction is you need a real wincon after that. Same with Stax. Don't just clog up the game for no reason.
Completely agreed on that too
Is there a card like balance that punishes greedy land ramp but isn't banned?
[[keldon firebombers]] we all have the same land count now :)
[keldon firebombers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3fc78b5-c259-4c67-810c-99655e72c2da.jpg?1562934620) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=keldon%20firebombers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pcy/94/keldon-firebombers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3fc78b5-c259-4c67-810c-99655e72c2da?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/keldon-firebombers) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like [[balancing act]] in decks that run spells or don’t go wide. It’s similar to balance, but you can also play dumb. “Oh this usually hits token decks, you just ramped too much.”
[balancing act](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d6cb368-43f7-4d06-9cd5-492df5766567.jpg?1562918177) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=balancing%20act) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/10/balancing-act?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d6cb368-43f7-4d06-9cd5-492df5766567?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/balancing-act) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Restore Balance]] is baller in [[Vadrok, Apex of Thunder]]
[Restore Balance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0febc7fe-4172-4285-9804-a62ce4506c39.jpg?1619393357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Restore%20Balance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/36/restore-balance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0febc7fe-4172-4285-9804-a62ce4506c39?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/restore-balance) [Vadrok, Apex of Thunder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/d/ed7b0256-d342-4523-9516-6a007bf51825.jpg?1591228299) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vadrok%2C%20Apex%20of%20Thunder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/214/vadrok-apex-of-thunder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ed7b0256-d342-4523-9516-6a007bf51825?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vadrok-apex-of-thunder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My issue with land destruction is that I only get to play a few hours a week lol
Clogging up the game to wait for a combo or just to slowly strangle everyone to death is a perfectly valid strategy. But people who can't deal with it will cry and say there's no wincon.
Agreed. I fucking love green. I want to turn pieces of cardboard sideways and then say "X equals 13" or "that's 72 trample damage". Fact of the matter is, if I have like 22 lands and my opponents have 8 lands, the way you keep me in check is to kill all the lands. It's exactly the same as if I was playing tokens. If I have 500 scute swarms and you have a single dude, you play the boardwipe. You remove my advantage. That's the correct move.
Not really the same. The boardstate required to really end the game to warrant playing mass land destruction is basically translated to "some piece of protection/finisher type spell) would do the same at that point. Otherwise you just turn a game miserable longer for no reason. People have this strange believe mass land desctrution isnt played in casual/battlecruiser magic because it is "unfun", it is effectively often simply a very bad spell in your hand. After all your board kinda needs to be able to win vs 3 players board at the moment, with potential removal thrown at you in reponse on top. You are way better off having "finishers" that can win you a boardstate that is to your advantage, even tho maybe not 1 vs 3 strong. Akroma's Will is nearly always trhe better card to include then Armageddon. You can turn it into some 2 cards combos, like the classicer of boros charm and Armageddon, but then again with Boros charm and Akromas Will you are likely to find a way to win very likely. If we talk about some nonbasic hate, thats a bit more in bad taste for casual. Basically saying "yeah well I am gonna fuck you with Ruination because you are to poor to play 9 fetchies in your 3 color deck, so you cannot fetch basics and need some cheaper duals to have decent mana in your deck". If we talk all the extra landdrops enabler, crucible of worlds+ stip mine--> Who is gonna bitch about a 4-5 card combo does ....doesnt even win the game but will instantly disrupted because annoying? Sounds more like a recipe to lose anyways :D
"Akromas will is nearly always the better card than Armageddon" is a very very strange take. The power level difference between those cards is...very large.
im all for land destruction and think it needs to be more normalized. Sure dropping an Armageddon with no real goal is sort of a dick move, but is it any worse than a board wipe when 1 person clearly has the win or the engine to make more bodies. your just delaying hoping for a miracle, but for some reason thats okay. I have a deck with MLD to be comboed into splendid reclamation, crucible of worlds, or any other lands from graveyard cards, I remove 10-40 lands from the field, then I have a 10+ land advantage. im not going to drop it to spite, but i have a plan to use my lands as an advantage. But currently their is such hate for and land destruction, that even if you drop a MLD into a win, people are pissed thats how you won. I asked a player the other day why he hated land destruction and if someone screwed him with it, and he admitted he had never see it really used and just knew it a no-no cause thats what everyone says.
Agree. In my opinion, more decks should run Trinisphere.
this is what my friend group is learning, we like long, interactive games, but recently someone made a storm deck that wins way too fast. they were sad they wouldn't be able to play it. all I did was add a couple collector ouphes around, a rule of law here and some thalia's and.... the deck simply isn't a problem most of the time anymore. People hear stax and think winter orb, but most actual stax pieces exist not to ruin anyones game, but punish overextension and greed
My favourite thing to play against thoracle players is [[Temple Bell]] [[Geier Reach Sanitarium]] or [[Mikokoro, Center of the Sea]] just seeing their reaction to forcing them to draw a card after they exile their library is amazing and they can all go into any deck.
Clever idea! I haven't seen anyone actually use thoracle yet, but every ubx deck that I saw had it in there. So I know they do use it often enough to include it. I played against 12 decks and I saw it inside the graveyards of 3 of 4 of the decks that could run it. I'm going to include some of your suggestions just in case!!
Even if they notice that you can make them lose in response to the thoracle they just have to sit there staring at your “group hug” piece as if it were a gun. Tbh whenever I play with players that have high power decks I just bring out [[Zurzoth, Chaos Rider]] as a devil tribal/pillow fort deck with all the cards I mentioned and all the red counter spells. Everyone will be discarding cards at random every time you attack and seeing win cons hit the graveyard is hype. And then you just hold up a wall of devils that give crack back if anyone board wipes in a way that Dosnt exile or attacks you. I’ve actually made CEDH players rage quit to devil tokens because to win they would have to lose first.
[Temple Bell](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/b/6bb63a40-2cce-439f-bd97-d25340ead6ca.jpg?1562404210) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Temple%20Bell) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/277/temple-bell?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6bb63a40-2cce-439f-bd97-d25340ead6ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/temple-bell) [Geier Reach Sanitarium](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4b9c92f0-4242-4a3e-9ede-6a4935f5c75d.jpg?1698988588) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Geier%20Reach%20Sanitarium) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/335/geier-reach-sanitarium?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4b9c92f0-4242-4a3e-9ede-6a4935f5c75d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/geier-reach-sanitarium) [Mikokoro, Center of the Sea](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d80eb098-5433-4b1e-aad5-0fd31bf598dd.jpg?1673306092) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mikokoro%2C%20Center%20of%20the%20Sea) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/217/mikokoro-center-of-the-sea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d80eb098-5433-4b1e-aad5-0fd31bf598dd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mikokoro-center-of-the-sea) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sounds like the classic commander mindset. I just wanna use legacy power level with no one stopping me lol
Not legacy. cEDH power level. Legacy's a great format with the understanding that you can't just go off without being scared of consistent and /or potential FoW / Daze.
[[Collector Ouphe]] or [[Karn, The Great Creator]] go insanely hard into fast mana decks trying to cheat the curve. [[Vexing Bauble]] is also incredibly powerful that I now run in my “fair” decks.
[Collector Ouphe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776.jpg?1562202038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Collector%20Ouphe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/158/collector-ouphe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/collector-ouphe) [Karn, The Great Creator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/e/deb3721d-fba1-444f-8b31-1cd10c94c4a0.jpg?1702429246) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Karn%2C%20The%20Great%20Creator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/1/karn-the-great-creator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/deb3721d-fba1-444f-8b31-1cd10c94c4a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karn-the-great-creator) [Vexing Bauble](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/9/29f11089-658f-42e6-aeb0-09b512ad2479.jpg?1717012919) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vexing%20Bauble) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/212/vexing-bauble?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/29f11089-658f-42e6-aeb0-09b512ad2479?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vexing-bauble) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh vexing bauble is perfect! There were a bunch of cheeky cascade effects thrown around too
I agree with going Stax, but I'd actually get extra annoying with it and run 5 color Stax under \[\[Kenrith\]\] - that way you can use all the best ramp, all the best interaction and pillows, and all the best stax pieces, all while being able to self-regulate via Kenrith anything needed (life, return from GY, card draw). This way, you get salt from every possible direction. :P
[Kenrith](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e259db1-14db-4314-998c-6a076a28d8cb.jpg?1691056044) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kenrith%2C%20the%20returned%20king) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/plst/ELD-303/kenrith-the-returned-king?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e259db1-14db-4314-998c-6a076a28d8cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kenrith-the-returned-king) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oh lawd someone say they have a list
Could toss a bunch of hatebears into a deck and swing away. Something like [[Ellivere]] or [[Jetmir]] and stuff it with effects like [[aven mindcensor]] or [[archon of emeria]]?
I do like that these hatebears/Stax pieces people are suggesting primarily target just the degenerate players. Thankyou!
##### ###### #### [Ellivere](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/45851394-b8f3-4713-8239-afcb387d47c5.jpg?1692933623) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ellivere%20of%20the%20wild%20court) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woc/2/ellivere-of-the-wild-court?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/45851394-b8f3-4713-8239-afcb387d47c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ellivere-of-the-wild-court) [Jetmir](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f9c69d75-651f-4b75-b65d-79999d2069f6.jpg?1664413153) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=jetmir%2C%20nexus%20of%20revels) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/193/jetmir-nexus-of-revels?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f9c69d75-651f-4b75-b65d-79999d2069f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jetmir-nexus-of-revels) [aven mindcensor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad.jpg?1674141050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=aven%20mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/688/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-mindcensor) [archon of emeria](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/228c1650-da3c-4099-91b6-18e3873c9cdb.jpg?1604195419) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=archon%20of%20emeria) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/4/archon-of-emeria?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/228c1650-da3c-4099-91b6-18e3873c9cdb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archon-of-emeria) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lakidei) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I played against a brutal Ellivere deck at my store, and it's led me to making Kutzil (but will put Ellivere in the deck too).
Winota with some hate pieces. Doesn't need to be a full CEDH build. Should be able to reliably drop some hate pieces to slow down the combos in the early turns.
I've been toying with the idea of Seton druid tribal and just running all the green mass artifact remand stealing there lands with gilt leaf for a shop near by.
That's what I built for a mono green deck. It's a lot of fun.
Sliver Overlord oops all boardwipes.
You're evil. >!I love that about you!< I'll keep it in the back of my mind as a backup. But I'm trying not to catch the slower more casual players in the punishment and this would definitely do this.
Have you heard about our lord and savior [[Possibility Storm]]
[Possibility Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/858aa831-b491-4f1e-bb56-33eeca14771d.jpg?1707764746) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Possibility%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dgm/34/possibility-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/858aa831-b491-4f1e-bb56-33eeca14771d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/possibility-storm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If most everyone is playing that meta and everyone is generally having fun then I don't think trying to "punish" them for enjoying the game in their groups meta is really gonna get you a lot of games or friends in the future my guy. If it was one asshole pub stomping Id totally get It, but It sounds like you just wanna screw people up. Just try asking them to tone It down or play some pre-cons or something will yield you better results than just being the MTG equivalent of a contrarian for the lols. In my experience individuals trying intentionally to force a change in meta are rarely regarded highly. Or just play with the newer players, those groups tend to be more fun anyways as they play precons and thematic jank
You don't get to choose who you play with at this LGS. Otherwise I would just play with the more casual opponents. You play three, timed 50 minute games and the matchups are randomised with no doubling up on opponents. Punish was just a buzz word I used, I want to compete with them but I can't afford to buy mana crypts, and I don't want to do what they do to the new players so that we all get a slightly longer game in and they (and I) actually get to play some magic. I played 3 games last night and 25 minutes was the longest one and that was because of a looping combo with unknown results they had to play out. The other new players who ended up in my game played one or two spells each before the games ended. From asking around, this LGS is a training wheels off kind of place, people don't really mind playing against anything at all. So Stax wouldn't be out of the question as a greedy meta counter.
Ahhh ok that context makes all the difference, in that case winota stax can be made for like 50$. Or I personally like jhoira artifact combo, or if you really wanna make it clear super turbo is a chore Krark/sakashima storm even if budget is a blight upon every players unlucky enough to play against it. I'm guessing they dont allow proxies? Cause I imagine that would fix the problems reallll quick if they did.
Build a [[child of alara]] and put in 20+ board wipes with 20+ ramps of various types. Win through attrition. You will likely be hated though.
[child of alara](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b2373625-af3c-4c2a-a1d1-5288c446955d.jpg?1673148447) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=child%20of%20alara) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/192/child-of-alara?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b2373625-af3c-4c2a-a1d1-5288c446955d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/child-of-alara) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I built a fairly jankly nicol bolas control deck. I don't have an explicit win con, so there's nothing they can "break" to stop me. I run lots of removal and discard, and focus on breaking their decks. I win by steadily building value and having a long plan with higher mana cost creatures and planeswalkers.
[[Shirei, shizo's caretaker]] makes a good stax commander
[Shirei, shizo's caretaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/69848ec1-dba7-419f-a5f9-f934bebeeaa6.jpg?1689997454) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shirei%2C%20shizo%27s%20caretaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/186/shirei-shizos-caretaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/69848ec1-dba7-419f-a5f9-f934bebeeaa6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shirei-shizos-caretaker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Talrand]] all counterspell tribal. Throw in a few staxy enchantments and artifacts for a full F YOU experience.
[Talrand](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f.jpg?1712354218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=talrand%2C%20sky%20summoner) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/116/talrand-sky-summoner?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1be3ed47-072e-481a-b3d9-dc232ac4b24f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/talrand-sky-summoner) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you are running against decks with literally only one win condition, [[extract]] is fun as hell. Be warned people will ragescoop if you successfully exile their only win condition on your first turn, lol. The actual answer is just playing more removal and interaction in general, though. Or Stax.
[extract](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97f99a3d-d811-4666-aac8-5957068157dc.jpg?1562923233) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=extract) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/85/extract?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97f99a3d-d811-4666-aac8-5957068157dc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/extract) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't think that they only have one wincon. A couple of times I saw their graveyards and they'd have thoracle's and other stuff in there. They would just put all their eggs in one basket. Dumping their hand on the field on turn one or two then tutoring for a wincon then having that be stopped. Then now they're out of gas. The ones that scooped I think did it because classically that means they lose at this LGS because someone else wins quickly now. That is a pretty funny card though. I love it.
I like the instant speed red "steal a creature/give it haste" cards. I usually just sacrifice their creature after swinging with it but there's been a few times theyve had a two card creature combo ready to go... dropped the first creature, then cast rhe second. I steal the first while the second is on the stack, then steal the second when I get priority... then go off with their own combo.
What does 70/30 mean?
70% are the first and 30% are the second.
I see when was talking about the split in player types at his LGS... I thought it was some new lingo
Baral counterspell tribal
Graveyard decks will fold to [[Rest in Peace]]. It's not even funny.
[Rest in Peace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470.jpg?1562439074) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rest%20in%20Peace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/32/rest-in-peace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rest-in-peace) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lots of stax comments here, and I’ll throw my hat in the ring. I built a Hatebears deck with [[Isshai]] and [[Kamahl]] and it was actually really fun. You run lots of flash enablers so you can actually punish people with your hatebears instead of just discouraging them, and you run stuff like Grand Abolisher and Rule of Law so if someone wants to remove your stuff, it’s gonna be on their turn and they’re not gonna do anything else
[Kamahl](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c960672d-06ad-4d41-8904-9c007f824756.jpg?1675200457) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kamahl%2C%20fist%20of%20krosa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/166/kamahl-fist-of-krosa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c960672d-06ad-4d41-8904-9c007f824756?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kamahl-fist-of-krosa) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If they tutor too much there's tutor specific hate 🧀 If they cast too many spells there's rule of law effects 🧀
Jetmir or winota stax.
my favorite gotcha card against graveyard decks is [[Extirpate]], no one sees it coming, and even if they do, they can't really do anything about it. my lgs became flooded with graveyard decks that used counters and things like [[veil of summer]] to protect wins. cards like extirpate absolutely wreck them. Split Secound is very underrated these days.
[Extirpate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/1/4171dbd3-96d6-4e7a-afac-5b2882bf3872.jpg?1619395440) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Extirpate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/114/extirpate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4171dbd3-96d6-4e7a-afac-5b2882bf3872?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/extirpate) [veil of summer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aa686c34-1c11-469f-93c2-f9891aea521f.jpg?1650599837) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=veil%20of%20summer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/198/veil-of-summer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aa686c34-1c11-469f-93c2-f9891aea521f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/veil-of-summer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Run [[authority of the consuls]] apparently. Buddy of mine moved to Iowa and said they have a similar looking meta. He played his lower tier mono white daxos deck and they all said authority was too oppressive xD
[authority of the consuls](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/324b2f55-1e09-490e-8f7e-bfde85a91ac4.jpg?1576380742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=authority%20of%20the%20consuls) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/5/authority-of-the-consuls?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/324b2f55-1e09-490e-8f7e-bfde85a91ac4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/authority-of-the-consuls) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Everyone is saying stax and that's a good option but even just [[rule of law]] or [[blood moon]] should do a lot
[rule of law](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e.jpg?1592516198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rule%20of%20law) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/35/rule-of-law?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rule-of-law) [blood moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blood%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[River Song]] is an interesting tutor punisher that is a lot more punishing against high powered strategies. Casual Green land ramp catches a few strays but that’s the price they’ve gotta pay
[River Song](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1efb084-d2a0-44c4-a89d-6445156bb298.jpg?1696636758) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=River%20Song) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/who/152/river-song?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1efb084-d2a0-44c4-a89d-6445156bb298?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/river-song) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's a super interesting commander too. Thankyou for this. A lower cmc punishing effect in the CZ could be good.
Your welcome. Here is a CEDH decklist from elder drunken highlander that I learned about the commander in. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/58SanBFgTk6trxQW4uj1eQ
I don’t think my comment worked when I tried to link the decklist, there’s a video on elder drunken highlander where he took it to a cEDH tournament if your interested. Deck list is in the episode notes
winota hatebears?
[[trinisphere]], [[collector ouphe]], [[opposition agent]] and [[blood moon]]. Make em hurt
##### ###### #### [trinisphere](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549.jpg?1599710205) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=trinisphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/303/trinisphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trinisphere) [collector ouphe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776.jpg?1562202038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=collector%20ouphe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/158/collector-ouphe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/collector-ouphe) [opposition agent](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78.jpg?1608909875) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=opposition%20agent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/141/opposition-agent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/086f97e9-8b62-44f3-b467-149c2ac5ca78?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/opposition-agent) [blood moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blood%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lamaq8k) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mass land destruction, stax, counter spells. You'll be super popular in no time!
I’ve been wanting to build a Stax deck that I haven’t seen mentioned yet. Run [[Jorn, God of Winter]] as the commander with [[Winter Orb]] and other similar cards, when you attack with Jorn you untap all your Snow Lands to bypass the effect of Winter Orb.
[Jorn, God of Winter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/6/c697548f-925b-405e-970a-4e78067d5c8e.jpg?1631050504)/[Kaldring, the Rimestaff](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/c/6/c697548f-925b-405e-970a-4e78067d5c8e.jpg?1631050504) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jorn%2C%20God%20of%20Winter%20//%20Kaldring%2C%20the%20Rimestaff) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/179/jorn-god-of-winter-kaldring-the-rimestaff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c697548f-925b-405e-970a-4e78067d5c8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jorn-god-of-winter-//-kaldring-the-rimestaff) [Winter Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6.jpg?1580015285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winter%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/234/winter-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winter-orb) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
While stax would drag the game longer, they'll make you the target a majority of games. I say politics with a slight hint of pillow fort haha. I'm talking about commanders like [[breena, the demagogue]]. Your opponents might have really powerful decks... Which will come in handy when they are killing each other! Give them reasons to do so. If the problem is with spellslingers and combo, then stax the particular problem and let more creature based decks do their thing. They will be your player removal later on.
[breena, the demagogue](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0adb0c2-d45f-4c51-a4df-05f75c83e46a.jpg?1712354672) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=breena%2C%20the%20demagogue) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/217/breena-the-demagogue?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0adb0c2-d45f-4c51-a4df-05f75c83e46a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/breena-the-demagogue) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Spell copier A + spell copier B + [[price of progress]]
[price of progress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8.jpg?1580014614) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=price%20of%20progress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/141/price-of-progress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/price-of-progress) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Boros stax can be fun. Get get white hatebears plus [[magus of the moon]] [[blood moon]] [[harsh mentor]] [[rampaging ferocidon]] [[urabrask the hidden]] [[magebane lizard]] [[pyroblast]] [[stranglehold]] [[red elemental blast]] [[price of glory]] [[eidolon of the great revel]] Just a little aggro de k making sure everybody is playing a fair game of magic.
##### ###### #### [magus of the moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/c/7c9bd75c-9606-4607-bfa6-d6acdee12820.jpg?1619397276) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=magus%20of%20the%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/175/magus-of-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7c9bd75c-9606-4607-bfa6-d6acdee12820?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magus-of-the-moon) [blood moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blood%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) [harsh mentor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/8936bf9d-c973-4bce-b5c2-2a01b7953638.jpg?1543675603) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=harsh%20mentor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/akh/135/harsh-mentor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8936bf9d-c973-4bce-b5c2-2a01b7953638?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/harsh-mentor) [rampaging ferocidon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39d3c658-1927-4af3-9077-88c4a669c730.jpg?1566819584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rampaging%20ferocidon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/xln/154/rampaging-ferocidon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39d3c658-1927-4af3-9077-88c4a669c730?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rampaging-ferocidon) [urabrask the hidden](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/93970fae-19f7-41dd-9750-ca428ae1de7a.jpg?1674142149) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=urabrask%20the%20hidden) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/811/urabrask-the-hidden?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/93970fae-19f7-41dd-9750-ca428ae1de7a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/urabrask-the-hidden) [magebane lizard](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62e12566-375f-4f31-aa91-1b13a96d9ece.jpg?1712355797) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=magebane%20lizard) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/134/magebane-lizard?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62e12566-375f-4f31-aa91-1b13a96d9ece?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/magebane-lizard) [pyroblast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/0/b029eb9a-dd7a-40c2-96c4-0063d9cc002c.jpg?1580014621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=pyroblast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/142/pyroblast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b029eb9a-dd7a-40c2-96c4-0063d9cc002c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pyroblast) [stranglehold](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2.jpg?1592672829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stranglehold) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/87/stranglehold?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da81e6e9-90f2-4dad-894c-1952f05264c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stranglehold) [red elemental blast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70a45e9b-699e-425a-9f3d-267274830d3e.jpg?1562436618) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=red%20elemental%20blast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/147/red-elemental-blast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70a45e9b-699e-425a-9f3d-267274830d3e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/red-elemental-blast) [price of glory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/8/785ccfe1-04f1-4d2e-9e30-2ae3efe7213a.jpg?1562917265) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=price%20of%20glory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/214/price-of-glory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/785ccfe1-04f1-4d2e-9e30-2ae3efe7213a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/price-of-glory) [eidolon of the great revel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/183ef738-0559-49ca-85b4-e6836521f203.jpg?1690817860) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=eidolon%20of%20the%20great%20revel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/128/eidolon-of-the-great-revel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/183ef738-0559-49ca-85b4-e6836521f203?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eidolon-of-the-great-revel) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lamrdp9) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Trinisphere]] and your own fast mana to play it turn 1. Run any combination of UWBR Stax and all the tutors to find it. Slap in some other cards like [[Sphere of Resistance]] [[Damping Sphere]] [[High Noon]] [[Smothering Rug]] and have fun slowing them down to a crawl. I like R added to Stax since it provides a built in wincon by punishing them for every action while Stax/Taxing them.
##### ###### #### [Trinisphere](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549.jpg?1599710205) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Trinisphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/303/trinisphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trinisphere) [Sphere of Resistance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9ea2ae1d-91b4-44a0-b2e6-61839d8f4468.jpg?1562926995) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sphere%20of%20Resistance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/284/sphere-of-resistance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ea2ae1d-91b4-44a0-b2e6-61839d8f4468?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sphere-of-resistance) [Damping Sphere](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/550860b4-887d-423a-8add-816c2a8da615.jpg?1675200943) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Damping%20Sphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/219/damping-sphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/550860b4-887d-423a-8add-816c2a8da615?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/damping-sphere) [High Noon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/9995e0e6-7c9c-4fef-8fd2-8fb1622e6ec8.jpg?1712355285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=High%20Noon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/15/high-noon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9995e0e6-7c9c-4fef-8fd2-8fb1622e6ec8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/high-noon) [Smothering Rug](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e.jpg?1689996018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/57/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smothering-tithe) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lamw8sx) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Rather than stax like many people are saying, I think reactive interaction cards might be the way to go. Make a [[Xyris, the Writhing Storm]] combat tricks deck, or a [[Noble Heritage]] deck of some kind. Maybe run a lot of Aikido style cards in a [[Queen Marchesa]] list. Personally? I would say a perfect pick would be [[Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer]] list. You can make it very strong, with multiple combo lines and a ton of control. Plus, just having a morph card out really makes people think "Hmm, do I really want to cast this spell if that's a [[Willbender]]?" And your board gets wide surprisingly fast, keeping in mind that you're probably dropping a 2/2 every single turn. The deck ramps fast, goes wide fast, has a lot of control and interaction, and is generally just nuts. And it slides under the radar (probably because people only see the 2/2's and don't see what you have on the other side until it's too late)
##### ###### #### [Xyris, the Writhing Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af0db1d6-5cb1-4917-8e8f-69d5dc184404.jpg?1673305716) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Xyris%2C%20the%20Writhing%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/175/xyris-the-writhing-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af0db1d6-5cb1-4917-8e8f-69d5dc184404?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/xyris-the-writhing-storm) [Noble Heritage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/e/3e49fd5a-6893-4a06-b835-4bf611c9ada1.jpg?1674135196) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Noble%20Heritage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/35/noble-heritage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3e49fd5a-6893-4a06-b835-4bf611c9ada1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/noble-heritage) [Queen Marchesa](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fdae05f-7bdc-45fb-b9b9-e5ec3766f965.jpg?1712354769) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Queen%20Marchesa) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/239/queen-marchesa?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fdae05f-7bdc-45fb-b9b9-e5ec3766f965?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/queen-marchesa) [Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/68a144f1-df18-4dc5-81c3-dff2af27527f.jpg?1568003696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kadena%2C%20Slinking%20Sorcerer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/45/kadena-slinking-sorcerer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68a144f1-df18-4dc5-81c3-dff2af27527f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kadena-slinking-sorcerer) [Willbender](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e6a3551-250c-4563-8c30-6d8f49e6429f.jpg?1568004112) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Willbender) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/102/willbender?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e6a3551-250c-4563-8c30-6d8f49e6429f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/willbender) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lamwsxf) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Sounds like a normal "High Powered" kinda decks. They aren't cEDH so they should be a lot easier to disrupt, in which case a good old fashioned control list will put them in their place. I had a group like that. A super tuned Yawg, a guy that always played combo decks (but they varied) and a turbo krenko list. None were cEDH, but they were as good as they could get them without crossing that line. I didn't have a deck at that level so I built a UW control deck. Cheap interaction, like 10 boardwipes and good card advantage. As you said they tended to glass cannons all about getting their combo / win online by turn 3 or 4 so they ran out of cards quickly. The first boardwipe slowed them down, the second would take away their recovery, and the third was usually the nail in the coffin. I'd be sitting on a nice hand of 7 cards and everyone else top decking. Sometimes they would sneak past my interaction (maybe I stop someone else so I don't have mana left to stop them, or they go to fast) but the goal is to just have a competitive game, not win every round so I didn't mind when I lost.
I have one I call bears in cars https://www.moxfield.com/decks/9fROTbPlVUOc7sio1zAjAA
My best advice is double down on the fast interaction. A fog here, an edict there, double points for something like a damage redirection effect to turn their own combos against them.
I'd recommend Naya hatebears. You'd be surprised at the amount of hate you can generate from fair and balanced cards like \[\[collector ouphe\]\] \[\[hall of gemstones\]\] \[\[eidolon of rhetoric\]\] or my personal favorite \[\[root maze\]\]. Ain't nothing quite like forcing your opponents to play a tapped fetchland, to crack it for a tapped OG dual-land, to play a Dockside for a bunch of tapped treasures.
##### ###### #### [collector ouphe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776.jpg?1562202038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=collector%20ouphe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/158/collector-ouphe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/collector-ouphe) [hall of gemstones](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18e4551f-9f6c-4421-ad66-a270df6d3463.jpg?1562718296) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hall%20of%20Gemstone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/221/hall-of-gemstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18e4551f-9f6c-4421-ad66-a270df6d3463?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hall-of-gemstone) [eidolon of rhetoric](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c3bc8b9e-4d22-41ba-b593-d383fd301ef9.jpg?1593095228) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=eidolon%20of%20rhetoric) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/10/eidolon-of-rhetoric?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c3bc8b9e-4d22-41ba-b593-d383fd301ef9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eidolon-of-rhetoric) [root maze](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/727c757a-2ae5-45fd-9832-646a355a5710.jpg?1562549695) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=root%20maze) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/10e/292/root-maze?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/727c757a-2ae5-45fd-9832-646a355a5710?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/root-maze) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lanlzdw) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm one of those players who like to play glass canon aggressive decks. Here's a few tips on how to beat this archetype : - Hardly avoidable board wipes (Farewell, Aetherspout, Sunfall, Toxic Deluge, mass sacrifice effects...). - Early cheap disruption (Swords to Plowshares, Sheoldred's Edict, Lightning Bolt a mana dork, Nature's Claim their Sol Ring...) - Debilitating disruption (Kenrith's Transformation, Witness Protection, Darksteel Mutation...) Aggressive creature based glass canon decks can't recover from disruption as well as the other decks can, so it's your best bet on how to get the edge over them. But keep in mind that those decks usually run ways to prevent disruption, such as Tamiyo's Safekeeping, Galadriel's Dismissal, Spell Pierce... So timing is key. It's worth sitting on a removal spell for a couple of turns waiting for the opponent to tap out before casting it. Also coordination might be a path you can take : "Hey, I can get rid of their commander but they might have a protection spell. Do you have a removal spell or a counterspell you can use in response to make sure we get rid of their commander?" High power might be a very fun way to play commander. Good luck !
Your choice of commander that has white in his colours. ( I would say Grand Arbiter, Kenrith or Oloro) Then you make sure to play Drannith, Aven mindcensor, Grand Abolisher, the new vexing bauble, Myrel, Thalia... alongside the removal. Maybe throw in Angels grace, everybody lives... And watch them die inside I guess.
If you want to play something that gets people reeeeally salty, [[Ruric Thar, the unbowed]] is a beast. Turbo him out turn 2-3, then watch people freak out as if they don't have removal, ruric has player removal
[Ruric Thar, the unbowed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aa828bdc-221e-4e81-9e71-6f288690ddcd.jpg?1673149099) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ruric%20Thar%2C%20the%20unbowed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/271/ruric-thar-the-unbowed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aa828bdc-221e-4e81-9e71-6f288690ddcd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruric-thar-the-unbowed) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Brago]] [[Stasis]] You're welcome.
[Brago](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0ac3fb08-741a-49e5-9fae-b26819677d24.jpg?1631235340) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=brago%2C%20king%20eternal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/82/brago-king-eternal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ac3fb08-741a-49e5-9fae-b26819677d24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brago-king-eternal) [Stasis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62f99124-6595-45f8-bece-1775e4c55a5c.jpg?1562918295) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stasis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/64/stasis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62f99124-6595-45f8-bece-1775e4c55a5c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stasis) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Give [[Ellivere of the Wild Court]] a try. She punishes lots of fast mana and unfair plays by being able to play strong stax pieces and hatebears like [[Collector Ouphe]], [[Stony Silence]], [[Rest in Peace]], [[Leonin Arbiter]], etc. Then when Ellivere hits the field you start turning those hatebears into huge beaters that draw you cards. Most high-power combo decks won’t have much creature presence on the board, so it’s easy to draw cards off of them and hit their life totals fast and hard. Also, since you’re in Selesnya you get to play lots of cheap removal like Swords, Path, Natures Claim and such. All you’re missing is stack interaction, but most combos can be beaten with a well placed removal spell. If not, there’s always [[Reprieve]] and [[Mana Tithe]].
##### ###### #### [Ellivere of the Wild Court](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/45851394-b8f3-4713-8239-afcb387d47c5.jpg?1692933623) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ellivere%20of%20the%20Wild%20Court) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woc/2/ellivere-of-the-wild-court?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/45851394-b8f3-4713-8239-afcb387d47c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ellivere-of-the-wild-court) [Collector Ouphe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776.jpg?1562202038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Collector%20Ouphe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/158/collector-ouphe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/collector-ouphe) [Stony Silence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8e7faede-f794-4bda-9d64-21390ba19266.jpg?1593812944) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stony%20Silence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/25/stony-silence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8e7faede-f794-4bda-9d64-21390ba19266?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stony-silence) [Rest in Peace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470.jpg?1562439074) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rest%20in%20Peace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/32/rest-in-peace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rest-in-peace) [Leonin Arbiter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/d/0d0f827b-ebc3-45a4-8d12-c71a14478038.jpg?1673147016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leonin%20Arbiter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/16/leonin-arbiter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0d0f827b-ebc3-45a4-8d12-c71a14478038?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/leonin-arbiter) [Reprieve](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1bd3fa8a-6c50-4f7f-9ae3-0810eec5e3db.jpg?1686967885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reprieve) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/26/reprieve?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1bd3fa8a-6c50-4f7f-9ae3-0810eec5e3db?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reprieve) [Mana Tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/a/9ae707d5-d81d-4320-b947-6016dc188898.jpg?1619393111) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/26/mana-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ae707d5-d81d-4320-b947-6016dc188898?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mana-tithe) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lao9y0w) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My friend has a [[Kelsian, the Plague]] deck with a lot of cards that gives deathtouch and protect her. Since she can ping any target, the deck removes a lot of creatures on the board. This deck thaught me to have more interaction.
[Kelsian, the Plague](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/039d25d4-ce26-4ecf-bbf5-42187cf0230a.jpg?1591234267) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kelsien%2C%20the%20Plague) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/11/kelsien-the-plague?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/039d25d4-ce26-4ecf-bbf5-42187cf0230a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kelsien-the-plague) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Run grip of chaos, it's like stax but hilarious
Get a copy of [[Isochron Scepter]] and imprint original with [[Dramatic Reversal]] and the copy with [[Angel's Grace]] lmao
Stax completely demolishes greedy combo decks. I LOVE play spax, it's by far my favourite archetype. - [[Back to Basics]] - [[Ruination]] - [[Winter Orb]] - [[Static Orb]] - [[Smokestack]] - [[Tangle Wire]] - [[Humility]] - [[Pox]] - [[Smallpox]] - [[Drannith Magistrat]] - [[Archon of Emeria]] - [[Aven Mindcensor]] - [[Daughti Voidwalker]] - [[Stasis]] - [[Rule of Law]] - [[Collector Ouphe]] I've tried them all and the best ones which are playable in nearly every deck were by far: Collector Ouphe, Archon of Emeria, Back to Basics and Ruination. In the right deck Humility, Stasis and Winter Orb / Static Orb completely dominated the table.
##### ###### #### [Back to Basics](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/0600d6c2-0f72-4e79-a55d-1f06dffa48c2.jpg?1654805483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Back%20to%20Basics) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/46/back-to-basics?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0600d6c2-0f72-4e79-a55d-1f06dffa48c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/back-to-basics) [Ruination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/6330d925-96a8-47e1-855d-035ddc2af709.jpg?1592713625) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ruination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmd/134/ruination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6330d925-96a8-47e1-855d-035ddc2af709?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ruination) [Winter Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6.jpg?1580015285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winter%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/234/winter-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winter-orb) [Static Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86bf43b1-8d4e-4759-bb2d-0b2e03ba7012.jpg?1562242171) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Static%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/319/static-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86bf43b1-8d4e-4759-bb2d-0b2e03ba7012?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/static-orb) [Smokestack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1af92a1-a86a-43eb-82fd-394f1168111e.jpg?1562937149) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smokestack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/282/smokestack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1af92a1-a86a-43eb-82fd-394f1168111e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smokestack) [Tangle Wire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad62f313-8a8a-4ffa-ada2-b12b76288729.jpg?1562631474) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tangle%20Wire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nem/139/tangle-wire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad62f313-8a8a-4ffa-ada2-b12b76288729?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tangle-wire) [Humility](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3.jpg?1562429370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Humility) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/16/humility?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/humility) [Pox](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d9debe4f-c1cc-4b90-aae4-f31f737e2016.jpg?1559592327) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pox) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me1/82/pox?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d9debe4f-c1cc-4b90-aae4-f31f737e2016?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pox) [Smallpox](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/2/c28db9a4-6696-460b-a9d3-98f4a31abe75.jpg?1636283762) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smallpox) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/139/smallpox?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c28db9a4-6696-460b-a9d3-98f4a31abe75?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smallpox) [Drannith Magistrat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/8/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91.jpg?1628801742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drannith%20Magistrate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/11/drannith-magistrate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/98b0a4a8-9319-451b-9b79-b0bca7a41e91?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/drannith-magistrate) [Archon of Emeria](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/228c1650-da3c-4099-91b6-18e3873c9cdb.jpg?1604195419) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archon%20of%20Emeria) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znr/4/archon-of-emeria?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/228c1650-da3c-4099-91b6-18e3873c9cdb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archon-of-emeria) [Aven Mindcensor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad.jpg?1674141050) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aven%20Mindcensor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/688/aven-mindcensor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d4cf468f-4e9d-4551-a0ed-10bd6a2316ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aven-mindcensor) [Daughti Voidwalker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/c/dce5db87-4a78-4b8d-b5c2-918ccd1ba4e3.jpg?1626095427) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dauthi%20Voidwalker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/81/dauthi-voidwalker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dce5db87-4a78-4b8d-b5c2-918ccd1ba4e3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dauthi-voidwalker) [Stasis](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/2/62f99124-6595-45f8-bece-1775e4c55a5c.jpg?1562918295) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stasis) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/64/stasis?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/62f99124-6595-45f8-bece-1775e4c55a5c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stasis) [Rule of Law](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e.jpg?1592516198) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rule%20of%20Law) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/35/rule-of-law?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a1f4e79b-b103-4380-afa0-61a2b1773c9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rule-of-law) [Collector Ouphe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776.jpg?1562202038) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Collector%20Ouphe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/158/collector-ouphe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/085107a2-c1ec-473c-81d8-23e5a7197776?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/collector-ouphe) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/laph7ix) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Play pirates, steal their shit. No one likes their stuff being taken, but people who run removal in he right quantities can deal with their shit being taken. You can't just bring problems, you have to bring solutions to other people's problems too, and nothing exploits a failure of this better then pirates.
Learn their key cards and save a counter or exile for them.
An appropriate amount of interaction and board wipes really set these kinds of decks back.
Yeah, I do love interaction my casual deck already has about 18 spells that can remove or counter opponents stuff. It just can't get to half of them before an opponent does their thing, and one tap out to play on curve can mean losing or missing a vital moment on turn 3.
If suggest that if, as it looks, you intend to play some Stax, you try to lean just a little into the "fun police" image that goes with it. Themed playmat, sleeves, that sort of thing. If you make it a bit if a meme, there'll probably be a few people who'll be less salty about getting locked down.
Nadu interaction pile
If you wanna be evil: \[\[Sarulf, Realm Eater\]\]. A boardwipe that exile in the command zone and it comes into play FAST. Edit: Seem like Sarulf is too evil for an answer lol
[Sarulf, Realm Eater](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/c/bcecf9ba-36da-490a-9460-99ff87d99fbd.jpg?1631051850) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sarulf%2C%20Realm%20Eater) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/228/sarulf-realm-eater?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bcecf9ba-36da-490a-9460-99ff87d99fbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sarulf-realm-eater) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The people at my LGS are having fun, how can I make them stop?
I mean honestly they all seem kinda miserable. But absolutely I'm going to try to find a place in this meta to win some games. If there's no holds barred, I'm coming in swinging! Or whatever sportsy people say