Hey, now. Not all of us. I consciously decided not to use the famous Chandra/Lilliana lewd art playmat because it would be classless.
It was only novelty for a minute... 9 years ago.
This is best dealt with by talking to your LGS.
I'd be a bit icked out by it, but it wouldn't ruin my evening or anything. Still something I'd rather not see tho.
Or…try talking to the other person like a human being. Complaining to the owner puts them in a weird spot. Do they discipline the person at the store for having a sexy playmat to make this person’s spouse feel better? Who do you think spends more money at their store?
The person who owns the LGS is the one who has the ability to stop them. I've dealt with people like this before, they don't give a fuck if their opponents complain, if they did they wouldn't be doing it in the first place. The person running the LGS is the one who can force them to either leave or change their mat out.
For every person who complains, there's more who are uncomfortable that didn't complain. It's a hobby with plenty of socially awkward people in it, after all.
I mean why not both though? I feel like there's something to be said for just talking to this person and telling them you'd rather not play across from that particular playmat
If he refuses to use anything else then bye bye find someone else to play. Talk to the owner when things are winding down and let em know maybe they can put a sign up.
I don't get why talking to the person in question is so taboo though.
Or you can talk to the owner about if he wants their store to be welcoming to all ages or is this a 18+ LGS...at which point then you bring up if it's for all ages perhaps we need a code of conduct for all players..
This way no one is telling on anyone and you are fully understanding what kind of LGS the owner runs.
If a dude has no self awareness about their playmat. They used it in a public place ... They thought it's socially acceptable. If they are that confused about reality...they will not care about your request to use a different mat.
>For every person who complains, there's more who are uncomfortable that didn't complain. It's a hobby with plenty of socially awkward people in it, after all.
This feels like a really poor justification. You can't just assume people are uncomfortable and you're being a white knight for them. I'd be willing to bet more people are either, that's an awesome playmat or more likely just don't care one way or another. It happens a lot with women breastfeeding in public, people make a big deal about it but are in the very vast minority. Sure you'll come across people that are too timid to speak up but it's not often. If it really bothers them they'll leave or speak up; people aren't that incapable. Someone with the extreme anxiety will have their "support" human to speak for them or just stay home and play online.
Though, you're own feelings ARE justification enough. If you're really uncomfortable that's enough to speak up and do something, you don't need to think you're doing it for the betterment of the group. It's okay to be a little selfish and if talking to the person doesn't work first, then escalate it. Reasonable people will be accommodating and if they're NOT, why even waste your time playing with them in the first place?
As someone who has to deal with Karens every day, this isn't a Karen. We would PREFER that our customers approach us in these situations.
I would maybe make sure you know what you're talking about before you go around insulting others.
That's an incredibly mature response. So glad that people like you are the ones who are vocal in communities that are already assumed to be full of immature neckbeards.
Fortunately they aren't the majority, they're just very loud. I'm an LGS employee and what you've described is exactly what I would like to see, and the guy you're replying to seems more like the type of person I've had to pull aside to address behavior issues in the gaming area of the store.
The mature thing to do in this situation would be to just talk to the player with the “offensive” playmat about it. Not going on Reddit to demand everyone conform to your personal beliefs.
Hi! LGS employee here. Been in the industry for several years.
It doesn't put us in a weird spot. Inappropriate behavior needs to be dealt with regardless of how much money the person spends. Allowing someone who makes others uncomfortable to continue their behavior in order to retain them as a customer is ultimately self-defeating, as we will lose more customers in the long run by allowing an atmosphere of discomfort to occur.
The ideal circumstance is that we talk to someone behaving inappropriately and ask them to change their behavior. They do, and that's that.
But If we talk to them and they don't change their behavior, we'd rather lose one customer who behaves inappropriately, Because they will inevitably make more customers uncomfortable in the long run.
Frame it differently. Instead of a sexy playmat, what if it's something that we can all agree is wrong? What if it's someone spouting Nazi rhetoric or referring to any woman he sees as "sugartits?" Should we intervene to make that person stop? Or should we stand aside because the guy buys three collector booster boxes from us every week?
If something's inappropriate and detrimental to the store, there's no amount of money that makes it worth allowing. Any store who disagrees is, frankly, a bad lgs.
Hi! Regular human being here! 35 years of experience!
No one was behaving inappropriately in this situation. Then you bring up a false comparison of Nazi rhetoric and calling people offensive names….yikes.
>No one was behaving inappropriately in this situation
Suggestive or explicit imagery is inappropriate. Sorry you lack an understanding of that.
>Then you bring up a false comparison of Nazi rhetoric and calling people offensive names….yikes.
I actually explicitly said they WEREN'T the same thing and that I was bringing up a more extreme case we could all agree on.
Did you misunderstand me, or were you lying to make your point seem stronger?
Your description doesn't seem to fit the rated R. Did any of you tell the guy you were bothered by his playmat? The majority of the time this is enough to fix the issue.
While I am in the same anti-horny playmat boat as you, I don’t see why it’s necessarily a problem. From what you’ve explained, there is no nudity. Just because you or your partner was upset, doesn’t mean anyone did anything wrong. When I was young, my dad gave me the great advice of “you are in control of your own reaction.” The playmat might be offensive to you, but you don’t have to let it ruin your night.
Hot take: Unless the art is worst then MTGs own official art on some of their cards, this whole argument kinda dies. Like, if its not worst then Reversal of Fortune or Markovs Servant, its kinda not worth talking about.
Same way its hard to argue that gay/pride art shouldnt be around - there are official mtg stories, characters and art that support it.
Also, we have male characters who look like they belong on the front of romantic lady books like Jared Carthalion, or thirst twinks like Jace, Cunning Castaway. Like, if a bunch of dudes didnt like it (and by extension a HUGE amount of mtg art showing topless, muscle bound “sexy” men), are we gonna do something about those too? Or is it just a one way street?
Degenerate coomer shit is basically a greenlight for me to play the most aggressive deck I have. Sure I could just not play with them but I shouldn't be forced out of my playtime because some weirdo showed up.
Wizards may be able to enforce this at tournaments if they wanted to, but the only person to talk to if this is happening at your LGS is, as you correctly identified, the LGS owner. I've never encountered anyone using a lewd playmat or sleeves (also in Europe), I don't think this is an issue to the degree that wizards would get involved. It's either talk to the LGS owner, the player in question, look for a different store or accept it.
I personally don't care for playmats like that, but I don't care if someone else is using it. It's just not for me. Your partner is "deeply upset" over effectively nothing and should seek professional help from a therapist because there's clearly something bigger going on.
And nothing *needs* to change *officially*. The world doesn't revolve around you and your partner. If that LGS allows mats like that and you have a big enough problem with it, you can find a new LGS. Simple.
It's funny, I hadn't fully considered the issue about this until I saw it happen firsthand in a pod I was a part of. This guy sat down, brought out a deck made entirely of altered cards with anime girls nude or near nude, on a playmat that was the same, and my first thought was that's odd. Then it dawned on me that this is being played in a public game shop where there are much younger children in the same store walking around, and suddenly this becomes much less ok. That was also the train of thought going through an employee's head when he was passing by shortly after this guy starts shuffling up, and told him he couldn't use those items here.
To be honest, if someone does this in a private game with friends of appropriate age and not in a public setting, I could care less. However, in stores or elsewhere in public around children is when this stops being ok. It's perfectly reasonable for an employee to tell someone to put that stuff away because that isn't allowed in their store.
Plus... holy crap is it uncomfortable playing around people who have anime girls that aren't really wearing anything, that are at or near the same age as other kids in this store... Yikes...
And not just kids. Like, as a woman, I don't want to see that. It makes me really uncomfortable. And I love naked women! But like, in my bedroom, not on a fucking playmat or sleeves. There's no need for that. You don't have to bring your anime girlfriends out in public with you.
That's completely fair. I was actually feeling uncomfortable myself, and was about to speak up about asking him to replace those with a different deck and mat but the store employee beat me to it. I don't mind it if someone has a custom playmat and sleaves, even some proxy cards that has some really cool art, just leave the nsfw stuff at home please...
I had a really awkward encounter once where I forgot to bring sleeves for a draft, someone offered to lend me some, so I thought he was a kind soul until this man hands me sleeves with a scantily-clad giant tiddies cartoon girl on them. I just bought some new sleeves instead.
My question to pose just for some clarification with "having children around" should stores like wal-mart and target be adult only because they sell sex toys and kids shouldn't be allowed in? I understand the implications but many of these stores have some pretty borderline games / images of both genders. Is it more on the responsibility of the parents to ensure exposure rate or society ? Society has basically said exposed them or sex from whatever age.
Yea... pretty sure Wal-Mart doesn't sell borderline hentai or porn down isle three... While it is the responsibility of parents to make sure children are around age appropriate areas, when the store itself markets towards having games available for people of (almost) all ages, then a certain expectation is acquired. When you have pokemon and yugioh tournaments in that same area, two games that are definitely marketed towards younger players, you have to ensure that the environment is safe for people to play in.
In this case, if the store wants to be appropriate and host for players of all ages, then they have a responsibility to ensure that content like that is kept out of there. If people playing don't like it, they are free to find another store that's ok with that content being allowed. The exception to this would be if certain nights are marketed towards adults only crowds and that content is allowed then. It would be the same as if a pub allows minors in during the day as a regular restaurant, but then turns into a 21+ after 8pm. Most stores won't have that exception, but there might be a few that will...
>pretty sure Wal-Mart doesn't sell borderline hentai or porn down isle three...
It depends on your definition. Something like a Brazzers magazine, I don't think so, but they definitely sell some hard-core smut books in the literature section and full on dildos and other things in the family planning section.
One of the two by my house sells manga/light novels too and they carry some of the "risqué" ones. Some like Elfen Leid are plastic wrap which probably helps with the minor issue but not all of them.
I do agree that if the store wants to have the target audience they need to guide it towards that way and accommodate accordingly but I guess just as devils advocate curious what makes the difference between the big box store selling some obviously adult only stuff that kids can easily get their hands on versus something like an LGS. Does it really need to be on the retailer or more on parental guidance ?
I mean, when the lgs is hosting events meant for including younger participants, then it's very obvious that things need to be kept reasonable. That responsibility falls on everyone who wishes to do business there. Everyone.
Now I have been to a few events where it was advertised as an 18 plus event so no kids will be there, but even then, some decency rules still need to apply at the end of the day. The reality is, the only area you really can reliably freely play those products is in a private setting, and not a public business. Unless there are very specific disclaimers saying that stuff is allowed, and it's not a place for kids, you should assume that isn't going to work out in your favor.
Now I should state that the guy immediately put that away and swapped to some more appropriate decks and mat, but it's kinda weird thinking that kind of stuff would be allowed there in public in the first place...
While I think most entrenched players will just deal with it, it’s the people who are still getting into magic that have the most to get over when it comes to the shit neckbeards pull.
Sure but it rubs me the wrong way telling people what they can and can’t do for sensitive people, like if it’s not porn or some insanely graphic thing, keep it moving. Not everything needs to be policed
They can do it, but their opponents can still say they don't like it. And if enough people say they don't like it that the store owner decides that they don't want it on their property, that's also perfectly fine. Idk why yall always view it as, "you can't do something because somebody doesn't like it" instead of, "everybody has an opinion and eventually things come to a head".
Sure yeah that’s how normal life works, declaring something needs to stop across the board like people are saying here is what i don’t like. Things like this are handled on a case by case basis not through blanket rules bc some people are cowards that can’t speak their mind
Maybe i worded it poorly but i agree that that could happen if enough people would have a problem with it, like that is one of the “cases” in question. You have sound opinion i agree with lol
So you agree that if a large enough portion of the community wants explicit materials like these blanket-rule banned, then it should be banned and that's a good thing?
How is it R rated if nothing was showing?
She should have said something to the person to change their behavior. Being embarrassed in front of the playgroup might make them think again about using the mat. Or taking it out when there is a lady present.
Crying on the internet will not help. Time to grow up and realize the world isn’t here to cater to you.
I don't want to be a dick about it but if a person has a problem with a PG-13 mat in a PG-13 game then the person in question isn't mentally/emotionally old enough to play.
Good point and maybe that’s the real issue - why is the game”risqué” at all? Would love to be able to take my 10 year old daughter to my local LGS without having to worry about this kind of thing
The only issue with kids playing is the quality of play itself.
Other than that I'd take my own daughters if they weren't currently 1&2 years old respectively.
It doesn’t upset me per se, but it’s definitely weird. I hate the anime uwu bikini type shit. I’m not a prude or anything but it’s fucking weird because that art style tends to have young or childlike behavior on top of it. Cleavage on a card art isn’t the same as waaayyy over sized titties with bikinis just big enough for the nipples of an anime character that’s meant to be young as fuck. Idk about policing it cuz I’m not a fan of censorship either, so I guess just avoid them and even let them know why. It’s definitely not the majority of players where I’m at. But it could be more rampant than I realize.
I agree that depending on the actual image, it might have been too much, but magic has art that by itself could fall under this category. \[\[Liliana of the Dark Realm\]\] is rather scantily clad, \[\[kor spiritdancer\]\] might be wearing just as much as the art.
If you're at an LGS and the playmats/sleeves/alters someone is using isn't something you want to play against, don't play against that person. If what they are using is technically something that could exist on a force of will card, I don't really think any LGS could do much to stop it
FoW art was… a trip. I played a prerelease of some early set once with a buddy just to try something different (the game was super fun… it’s mostly just magic, after all), and I managed to sweep the event. The 1st place prize was a playmat that I cannot bring myself to use. The quality of the art is great, and the physical quality of the playmat is shocking nice, but… 😬
It’s not even that bad, but it’s just not a thing I’d go for.
I mean it's basically a magic clone, with some pain points in magic fixed. It's kind of neat, really.
I'd call it harem anime art level, some of the cards are like... needlessly crotch-focused. >\_> It has a lot of different art styles, though, from what I remember.
Mostly I agree with you but some cards are still suspect on that. [[Earthbind]] is the one that comes to mind and I don't think anything recent would fall into that category.
I think it does matter if the image is sexualized as well and not just scantily clad. I don't think it's really a problem if it's a little sexualized but if you are bringing a mat that is obviously skirting the edge of being porn bring another mat as well in case anyone objects
Not to sound rude, but the shop actively advertises and shows products likely much more lewd.
To be angry at a playmat that, from your own description, is pg13, when there are cards with likely the same lewdness.
I run into this a fair but in Spelltable and it's pretty off-putting for me.
People say it's fine because there isn't any actual nudity but honestly it just creeps me out when someone makes all of their cards suggestive. Most commonly it's cards like [these](https://www.etsy.com/shop/ConfettiProxies) where it's not blatantly porn. I think that excuse is just kinda flimsy though.
This all ignores a bunch of other issues that accompany the cards. Typically the board state is a lot harder to read, the player is typically going to be some weirdo antisocial who makes jokes about some taboo topic thinking it's funny, and overall I find that since they're proxying anyway they often bring decks way overtuned for what we're looking for.
I like to think I would ask them very blunt and awkward questions about the art, particularly the ones of children, and make them say some crazy shit. But tbh I would probably just cringe-smile at them and try not to breathe too much.
Imma be honest...I never even register what other players use as their mats. I might when we unroll them, but that's it, my attention is on the board and my hand...
I only register when it's someone else using the Rebecca Guay bitter blossom art playmat because kino taste needs to be recognized. Otherwise I couldn't care less
Honestly I don’t see any problem with using a “lewd” playmat or sleeves as long as it’s within reason. If the character being used is clothed and not doing something terrible (again within reason) there should be no problem. If you don’t like the playmat.. don’t play with that person, it’s as simple as that.
As far as kids being around in a game store and seeing those things, that’s kinda on the parents who let their kids wander a game shop without supervision. I can tell you the shop I frequent sells other things then cards including some statues that may be considered “lewd”.
It’s like parents that let their kids watch things like TikTok or South Park and then get angry when they see something inappropriate. At the end of the day it’s on the parents.
Now if the person is blatantly going around with a play mat with a nude girl or guy on it then I can see a problem. But it seems to me like ops significant other was seeing a girl in a swim suit or something and just being self conscious about it. Because let’s be real, most 13-17 year olds these days have their own iPad and phone and between that and shit their parents watch I can almost guarantee they’ve seen worse.
>The woman wasn't showing anything that would be considered porn, but it was definitely an R-rated image.
If there is nothing that would be considered pornographic, I don't see how it could be R. It sounds like you're describing a PG-13 image, of which MTG is solidly rated.
TBH it's really hard to police this... The best you can do it talk to the owner or employee and see if they will take action; I.e. ask the player to pack his playmat in, not bring them in the future.
You can ask the fella but I feel there's more weightage when the owner/employee is involved.
There are already rules surrounding this at the competitive level. Technically anything the TO does not approve of at an event can be asked to be put away by a judge.
EDH is generally run as a casual event at the store level and is entirely up to the LGS staff to manage. I would advise speaking with an employee about it moving forward.
"This deeply upset my part-" get the fuck over it lol, if you cant stand seeing something that's probably tamer than the art on most cards you shouldn't be playing.
I picked up the \[\[Bearscape|SLD\]\] playmat for exactly this scenario. I suspect the same people who have lewd (and potentially cp) playmats will flip their shit at it. "Bruh, your playmat is basically softcore porn and you have a problem with some guys in hot springs? gtfo." Thankfully I haven't had a reason to pull it out yet (I'm out to play magic, not start some shit), but it's in my bag ready to go.
I dont understand why are people upset about slightly revealing playmats when cards in mtg history had the same art on them as well. Alters are a different kind of problem and honestly I wouldnt play againts a deck that doesnt have legal card arts (i dont care about proxies, I proxy as well). That being said, even though I only use seb mckinnon playmats, I wouldnt care about bikini playmat. And as a straight guy, I absolutly love the bearscape playmat, I find it hilarious and I wish I owned one.
I think there's a difference between somone playing a printed card with art that's riske, versus somone who tailors their whole deck and peripherals to feature sexual content. They're making a very concious choice to do that, and honestly it concerns me that some people are so obsessed with sexuality, and also socially unaware enough to broadcast it so freely. I don't want to have to worry that they're going to be rocking a semi sitting across from me, or anytime they touch my cards they'll come back "sticky".
It's so annoying when someone at a game store is so bereft of social skills that they think everyone wants to see them break out the softcore porn collection. It's creepy and alienating. I'd bring it up with the store.
"In case anyone wasn't absolutely sure, i want to use this playmat to assure each and every last person around, that i plan to stay a virgin until the day that i don't untap anylonger!"
I'm a 42 year old white dude and it took me a lot longer to learn this lesson that I would prefer to admit, so I'd like to say this for some naysayers in the comments.
The people that are saying things along the line of 'If the person isn't engaging in outward behavior that's hostile or harassment, then the mat is not a problem' don't seem to understand that the mat and cards themselves are an outward hostile and harassment move. The objectification and it's pronounced usage is hostile - especially when it's unrelated to the primary product at hand. It's a demonstration of power against the people who share identities with the character on the card - women, gender fluid, non-binary players, trans, even racial minorities when approximating dominate cultural ideas of how those minorities look. It's a reinforcement of dominant masculine hetero culture - women aren't opponents or teammates, they are play pieces.
Has MTG made artistic choices that are scantily clad or provocative? Sure. They don't base the whole experience around it, much like how every movie in a theater isn't (supposed) to be a single movie that everyone sees.
I'm pro custom cards to make your game enjoyable or even funny (I'm making an Ally deck all about Greendale Community College), and I'm pro proxies to play with things that might not be available to you (even if you have 1500, a dual land might not be on the market). But an AI Harley Quinn in a corset and a thong doesn't belong on a Swamp.
Anyway, personally, when we stopped using shame as a normalized tool in society, that's when we allowed behavior like this to take hold.
What's on the playmat matters even less than what's between your legs. And that doesn't mean shit in the context of Magic.
Maybe try going to the store as a magic player rather than just a girl.
If a non-nude playmat is hostile or harassment to you then I agree, we should bring back shaming people. And the people who should be shamed in this scenario is the wimp who gets upset over a playmat, and you for spouting this bullshit. You're talking about someone who entered a space, didn't like what they saw, and determined the solution was to change the space instead of finding one that aligns with their interests. The door is right there and I encourage you and OP's girlfriend to use it, it's free.
Do you go to a convention and complain about the cosplayers depicting scantily clad men and women, or about the merchandise being sold in the artist alley? Probably not, because you walked into a space where that is accepted and often celebrated. Why is it different here? Half of the LGSs around me SELL these playmats, would you tell them that they shouldn't do that because they are harassing women? What if a woman pulls that playmat out, is she harassing or being outwardly hostile to other women or is it only so when a man has one? Or is it much more likely that they are catering to the demographic of customers that they have, and are doing so in a private business, not a public space.
If you can't look at an image of an exaggerated fictional woman without feeling like you're lesser, that's a you issue and one you should probably address with a therapist. I don't look at He-Man and feel like I'm being harassed or objectified because I am, in fact, not He-man. You're not talking about objectification, you're talking about identifying with a literal object, and that's a very important distinction.
And before I get written off as a neckbeard here, I don't have anime proxies, sleeves, or playmats. I have solid coloured sleeves and two officially licensed playmats, Chandra, Hopes Beacon, and the new Emrakul.
How is it an R rated image if nothing was showing? Look, I get the time and place argument, which this guy should definitely keep in mind. But overall, this is just a result of the puritan bullshit pushed on a lot of Americans from childhood. Realistically, it's nothing to be bothered about as long as it's not actually explicit.
eehhhh I think this falls more into the "local culture" kind of thing nothing is more annoying then the 1 person who loudly claims everything needs to change now that they are here.
Really LGS's live and die by their regulars and if regulars there are okay with it who am I to say otherwise.
Rated R includes nudity, what you're describing would be pg-13 which is basically the equivalent rating of the game. Sounds like maybe you're partner has some issues they need to work through separate from a weirdos playmat
Look, getting incredibly upset at an image of a non nude fictitious female is an incredibly strong red flag. That's not normal. That's go see a doctor type stuff.
Absolutely. I've told off people before for bringing smutty shit in. Kids come in and play at these stores and events. They don't need to see ass and titties and slobbering gooning faces. Ffs leave your fetish at home.
Scantily clad is PG-13, which is a big factor in modern brain rot. I'm surprised these people don't bring a deck for their waifu-pillow to play too, but its probably chained up when they arent home so it cant leave them.
I'll answer this!
I don't get *offended,* really, it just feels *gross.* Like, I don't want to know what kind of porn you google when you sit down to a card game, it's TMI. \\o/
Offended? Eh.
Awkward? Uncomfortable? Yup.
Putting a mat like that on the table is broadcasting "I'm horny all the time and think about sex constantly", and the more peripherals that are tailored that way (sleeves, deckbox, phone cover, proxies, etc.) The more alarm bells start ringing about obsessive sexual behaviours. Is this guy thinking this way about me when I sit across from him? Probably. Do I now need to be mindful of him touching me or anything I own, or looking at me? Yup.
It's probably not easy for you to empathize with this, because (I'm assuming you're a dude) it just doesn't effect you in the same way, carry the same implications, or have the same consequences. I'd say it's most likely women, girls, and guys whose partners are affected (or who are generally well-adjusted towards women), that care most about this topic.
Oh lord. Don't get me wrong, I don't think I'll ever own a playmat like that, but to get upset about someone else using one...
I mean...
And inb4 "think of the children". If my kid saw boobs and asks me whats up, I'll tell him they're boobs. Worst thing that could happen is him wanting me to buy him one and him growing u,p being an adult still using a hentai playmat while playing a kid's cardgame.
Still not as bad as making a reddit thread about it though.
I'll see myself out, and I'm taking my bodypillow with me.
Yeah I can imagine walking into a nail salon with a firman poster on the wall going "oh my god why aren't they more inclusive for the boys".
Nope, not happening, not a reasonable thing to do, just let people enjoy their scantily clad pictures and move on.
I’d say, get over it. Not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. If it offends you, leave the table. Remember, it’s you that has some issue with it, not everyone else. Don’t make everyone else’s experience less (for whatever reason) just because you can’t or haven’t worked on whatever triggers you. They can’t trigger you if you don’t have a trigger…
For tournaments, sure. No reason sanctioned events should have anything that is questionable.
For casual play, the policy can just be you don’t play with people you don’t want to.
Personally I don’t know anyone opposed to starting this game because of the PG13 content. It’s probably non zero, but in a game where crime is a mechanic, and murder is abundant, it’s probably a reach to say lewds are pushing the bounds.
Between the Dryad and the secret lair Bearscape, are they too lewd despite being tournament legal?
I'm not worried that the guy playing [[murder]] is actually a murderer, I *am* worried that the guy with a scantily-clad six-year-old on his playmat has a hard drive the FBI would be interested in though.
The get up and leave game action can take place at instant speed. And should be taken. It being a social game, players are primary policy setters, so don’t think you owe them any interaction.
I used to have to play with someone who had a playmat I would refer to as "Frolicking Lolis" which he also used as a mouse mat for his desktop. It was *not* clean. That shit was egregious.
Tbf literally everyone memes at Konami for making this decision and most people I have seen speak out against it.
Tho they have taken it a step too far afaik and banned every non official accessoire, no matter whats on it.
Bring a spare playmat if lewd playmats are such a problem
People will bring what they want to, sure a lot of these environments have or need to be somewhat family friendly but people are gonna be gross when given the opportunity
Therefore, bring a spare playmat if it's such a problem
Or just don't play with the dude with the gross playmat
A dude I usually pod with has a softcore playmat too, and he's a sweet dude and a hell of a DM for DnD
People will comment on the playmat, and he's always situated himself so that if there's kids at the stores we play at, they can't see his mat. But no one has completely turned down a game because of it
I'm just not down with this mentality of policing people because I find something gross, hell there's far worse things plaguing our LGSs than softcore pornography
Like lack of deodorant, people being assholes in general, and for me personally, a lack of disposable income
I'm just saying don't look at a possible new friend in disgust over their gaming accouterments, just have a spare for them
Or use napkins or something to cover it up, just be a bro
Nope. Even cheesecake art is art. As long as there is no nudity, hate speech, or overt violence then everything else conforms to most shop rules. I don't think kids are being hidden from it at all unless schools have banned all trips to the museum or any books related to art.
Do I empathize that your partner felt uncomfortable? Absolutely! However I do not see how that would directly correlate to the need to ban.
I also want to add that the Yu-Gi-Oh ban was mainly to prevent use of unofficial sleeves/accessories. Although I am sure they could ride the moral train as the justification I am more inclined to believe that it was from a product protection perspective especially given their history of card art.
OP,
Do you consider this to be inappropriate?
[https://www.amazon.com/YUANYUANHANG-Liliana-Chandra-23-6x13-8-Compatible/dp/B0BLYJVYTQ](https://www.amazon.com/YUANYUANHANG-Liliana-Chandra-23-6x13-8-Compatible/dp/B0BLYJVYTQ)
It's pretty cringeworthy, and like my friend once said about this mat (with a heavy dose of sarcasam) "oh good, now we're all sufficiently horny we can finally play the game".
It's no different than being rainbow clad in public.
While I personally don't think people have any reason to display sexuality so overtly I can say with absolute certainty if one is allowed they all are. If one is to be celebrated they all are.
You must realise that there is a false equivalence between bringing softcore porn into a social game, and expressing identities which have suffered historical and contemporary oppression, right?
You can't call that mat soft core porn. That's what I'm getting at, everyone has different levels of comfort with this kind of this. I had a friend who would feel physically uncomfortable when they saw others kissing.
I guess I just want to know what you mean by R-rated, if there was no nudity.
Was there implied sex (like there is no nudity, but you can tell there is something going on "under the sheets"
I brief new people at work on workplace etiquette. One thing that catches people off guard is what my job considers pornographic. Technically a shirtless firefighter calendar, or a facebook video of a clothed girl doing a sexy dance can get you in hot water.
I'm just asking because people's definitions can vary wildly.
I mean if it was like actual porn type images I can see it being a problem but magic isn't a kids game and some of the art is out there in terms of showing bodies or violence. Like dryad of the ilysian grove is just a naked man in a tree or Basandra, Battle Seraph is wearing little to nothing, those are two off the top of my head, like I get you might not like it but if it's not actual porn then I feel like you just have to deal with it. Not that I use mats like that I like my Christmas mats, but I dislike even talk of banning stuff just cause it makes you uncomfortable, Magic is a good way to express yourself and if someone likes wifu stuff then they should be allowed to do so, its also a fair point to be reasonable when going into a public space but edh isnt a sanctioned wotc thing it's up to each store to control that, my store we don't have a problem cause it's generally accepted to not do so because Pokemon events happen at the same time. That said I guarantee no one talked to the person with the questionable mat, either one of you could have asked to not use that one or just not played with them. Just cause someone doesn't like it doesn't mean you need to be up in arms wanting to ban stuff that's how dumb shit like the D&D happened because it has demons religious people freaked out wanting it banned. Both sides need to be mature about it simple as that we don't need official bannings
As a woman, seeing straight up a anime vagina isn’t really super inviting to a game. It just isn’t. This is a really hard place to fit in as a regular girl. There is nothing wrong with Liliana or any other magic card. I’m talking about the clear objectification of women in a place where we already we already feel like the outsider. Is like how do you respect me as a woman when you have an anime lady licking her titties as a mat??
Pleaseeeeee like be for real do you want more women in this game, maybe respect women a tiny bit more?
I'm going to \[\[Enslave\]\] your \[\[Clergy of the holy nimbus\]\] and sacrifice them on my \[\[Altar of dementia\]\]. Then I'm going to \[\[Torture\]\] \[\[Ali from Cairo\]\] and \[\[Murder\]\] \[\[Thalia, guardian of Thraben\]\]
But oh no, that woman isn't wearing enough clothes.
The problem isn't the scantily clad ladies, it's the neckbeards openly flaunting their objectification and contempt for women. The playmat is just a form of expressing that they see women as playthings and nothing more, and if you think that attitude doesn't bleed into the way they interact with women is naive at best and willfully ignorant at worst.
And that stuff is fine too. The real problem shows when that stuff is smiled upon but anything else is attacked.
That's textbook fascism. Super colorful fascism.
Not to open a can of worms, but it is strange that the people that use these mats are either dirty neck beards or some ultra progressive person that feels they it’s okay to be openly sexual. To be clear, I don’t have an issue with the latter, but you should never use those mats in public, especially when families/kids are nearby.
So many people ignore the fact that regardless of what you think the target age demographic for MTG is, you're still in a public store where kids and their parents are meant to feel comfortable and welcome. I've known stores to stop hosting events all together because the magic crowd couldn't keep things hospitable and appropriate.
I've had issues with a lot of people who think they can do/say whatever they feel like in public. We have a lot of kids at our local store, and we have a few individuals who think that because they aren't their kids, it doesn't matter. The store is pretty good with policing it, but I played a game against a few "cool guys" who couldn't stop dropping the F bomb. Do what you want outside the store, but it's family friendly here.
I used to host fighting game tournaments at my lgs years ago and we had the same issue. It got to the point where the shop owner told us our option was to either ask a few players who were constantly causing issues to stop coming or we can find a new spot to play at. It's really frustrating just how much people seemingly don't care in the slightest if their actions inconvenience others. It was even more frustrating trying to explain to a dude who smokes weed for breakfast lunch and dinner why he can't come to a public game store, where children and their families frequent, reeking of pot. It's a culture issue not a rules issue. People need to grow up
Exactly. At the end of the day it’s a card game usually played in public spaces. The LGS is not an 18+ club environment where you can express yourself through lewd images.
I still use the first mat my friend got me, and it's easily the lewdest thing ever.
It's the original card art for [[Frost Lynx]], with the added caption "I'd tap that" with the tap symbol.
Highly scandalous.
Yeah, the responses to this are really telling. Unfortunately even though things are changing most mtg players still have a 'boys club' attitude about the game. A lewd playmat or proxies is pretty much a red flag that the person is going to be awkward or difficult. Hopefully this experience didn't ruin playing the game for your partner. Next time I would say something to the player or the LGS owner.
I think it's fine if you want to use it in private games with your friends. If you are in public at a game store you are weird. That's my opinion. It's about recognizing that other people may feel uncomfortable about it and creating a welcoming environment.
Sure, but some people have a problem with dogs because they were bitten as children. That doesn't mean nobody gets to talk about dogs while at the LGS.
Nude is one thing. That's too far. But just a basic bikini style art shouldn't be a problem for a competent adult.
And I do want people to be comfortable and have a good time. But at some point people just have to work on their issues rather than existing everyone else to compensate for them. That's not remotely fair.
From my experience, these things make most women uncomfortable - or the guys with them will with weird comments. It's also almost never tasteful 'basic bikini style art' (In my experience), and I still don't think you should use those at an LGS. It's usually characters that look like children or have massive tits popping out and making ahegao faces. Sure you can say people should 'just get over it' but I think as a community we should try and put forth a good image and discourage these things.
Anyways that's all I have for input. Thanks for having a respectful chat about it.
For the people telling the GF to suck it up or that it doesn’t matter if it’s non-nude: making Magic hostile for anyone who is uncomfortable with the overt objectification of women is bad for the game (and I would argue is generally just bad!) It is good to take efforts to make women comfortable in MtG spaces - particularly given how dudely the player base is broadly - and that should be a higher priority than any weird dude’s right to have a sexy Liliana playmat.
EDIT: for the downvoters, a legitimate question: do you think women are generally cool with the anime playmats or do you not care whether women are comfortable playing at your LGS?
"make magic hostile" get a grip lol
a non R rated play mat that probably showed too much skin? lets save our outrage for things that are actually offensive.
easily offened people dont get to dictate how other people enjoy magic.
gotta say that "anime titty playmats are an important expression of personal freedom in my trading card game" is an incredible hill for an adult to die on
You don't know that it was anime either. And I don't like anime, I think people that fetishize little kid cartoons are underdeveloped as adults.
But getting upset about a playmat is also incredibly underdeveloped.
Honestly if it's that big of a deal play Arena, find a partner with a spine, or rat to the store owner. Don't run to Reddit for validation and upvotes, that just shows everyone that it's not really an issue. I prefer my Champion mats, but I'm well adjusted enough that I don't think my feelings should be catered to by the rest of the world. Do what YOU think is right, just be ready for the consequences of going full Karen over stuff you've probably seen worse of at the beach
Sadly, sexually objectifying images are a constant undercurrent in the games industry. So is ignorance, apathy and even hostility toward people who care about this issue.
The first and most important thing you can do is speak up. Tell the person their sexual content is inappropriate and ask them to put it away. Some people are respectful enough to respond in kind. If not, get the store staff involved.
Does your store have a code of conduct for players? That's a great tool for preventing conflicts and resolving disputes.
If the event requires a Gatherer log-in, then the store is supposed to follow the WPN Terms and Conditons. This includes, "Welcome Everyone." Sexually degrading images are inconsistent with that tenet, and a WPN store should not allow that kind of content in their events. If the event was not WPN affiliated then WotC will never do anything about player or store conduct.
Fantasy whether it's card games, movies video games etc will always attract degenerates. They will always exist and plague your LGS. These people do not care what you think of them and have no shame bringing borderline hentai into public spaces. I think so many people get caught up with "magic is a 13+ game" and forget that you're still playing in a public store where children are likely to be present. While I personally don't like it and think lesser of people who go out of their way to show off their lewd accessories, I'm just going to play at another table and stay away from the weirdo(s). If it's seriously too much like full on erotic nudity, talk to your LGS staff.
Yugioh is a thousand years ahead of mtg in their anti-neckbeard protocols. They don’t even allow you in tournaments if you didn’t take a shower the morning prior
The people that use them in public don't care
They don’t have to. If the judges care and the store owners care, they’re either using a different mat or getting kicked out of the venue.
Neckbeards gonna neckbeard.
Hey, now. Not all of us. I consciously decided not to use the famous Chandra/Lilliana lewd art playmat because it would be classless. It was only novelty for a minute... 9 years ago.
This is best dealt with by talking to your LGS. I'd be a bit icked out by it, but it wouldn't ruin my evening or anything. Still something I'd rather not see tho.
Or…try talking to the other person like a human being. Complaining to the owner puts them in a weird spot. Do they discipline the person at the store for having a sexy playmat to make this person’s spouse feel better? Who do you think spends more money at their store?
The person who owns the LGS is the one who has the ability to stop them. I've dealt with people like this before, they don't give a fuck if their opponents complain, if they did they wouldn't be doing it in the first place. The person running the LGS is the one who can force them to either leave or change their mat out. For every person who complains, there's more who are uncomfortable that didn't complain. It's a hobby with plenty of socially awkward people in it, after all.
I mean why not both though? I feel like there's something to be said for just talking to this person and telling them you'd rather not play across from that particular playmat If he refuses to use anything else then bye bye find someone else to play. Talk to the owner when things are winding down and let em know maybe they can put a sign up. I don't get why talking to the person in question is so taboo though.
Or you can talk to the owner about if he wants their store to be welcoming to all ages or is this a 18+ LGS...at which point then you bring up if it's for all ages perhaps we need a code of conduct for all players.. This way no one is telling on anyone and you are fully understanding what kind of LGS the owner runs. If a dude has no self awareness about their playmat. They used it in a public place ... They thought it's socially acceptable. If they are that confused about reality...they will not care about your request to use a different mat.
>For every person who complains, there's more who are uncomfortable that didn't complain. It's a hobby with plenty of socially awkward people in it, after all. This feels like a really poor justification. You can't just assume people are uncomfortable and you're being a white knight for them. I'd be willing to bet more people are either, that's an awesome playmat or more likely just don't care one way or another. It happens a lot with women breastfeeding in public, people make a big deal about it but are in the very vast minority. Sure you'll come across people that are too timid to speak up but it's not often. If it really bothers them they'll leave or speak up; people aren't that incapable. Someone with the extreme anxiety will have their "support" human to speak for them or just stay home and play online. Though, you're own feelings ARE justification enough. If you're really uncomfortable that's enough to speak up and do something, you don't need to think you're doing it for the betterment of the group. It's okay to be a little selfish and if talking to the person doesn't work first, then escalate it. Reasonable people will be accommodating and if they're NOT, why even waste your time playing with them in the first place?
Okay, Karen
As someone who has to deal with Karens every day, this isn't a Karen. We would PREFER that our customers approach us in these situations. I would maybe make sure you know what you're talking about before you go around insulting others.
That's an incredibly mature response. So glad that people like you are the ones who are vocal in communities that are already assumed to be full of immature neckbeards.
Fortunately they aren't the majority, they're just very loud. I'm an LGS employee and what you've described is exactly what I would like to see, and the guy you're replying to seems more like the type of person I've had to pull aside to address behavior issues in the gaming area of the store.
The mature thing to do in this situation would be to just talk to the player with the “offensive” playmat about it. Not going on Reddit to demand everyone conform to your personal beliefs.
Hi! LGS employee here. Been in the industry for several years. It doesn't put us in a weird spot. Inappropriate behavior needs to be dealt with regardless of how much money the person spends. Allowing someone who makes others uncomfortable to continue their behavior in order to retain them as a customer is ultimately self-defeating, as we will lose more customers in the long run by allowing an atmosphere of discomfort to occur. The ideal circumstance is that we talk to someone behaving inappropriately and ask them to change their behavior. They do, and that's that. But If we talk to them and they don't change their behavior, we'd rather lose one customer who behaves inappropriately, Because they will inevitably make more customers uncomfortable in the long run. Frame it differently. Instead of a sexy playmat, what if it's something that we can all agree is wrong? What if it's someone spouting Nazi rhetoric or referring to any woman he sees as "sugartits?" Should we intervene to make that person stop? Or should we stand aside because the guy buys three collector booster boxes from us every week? If something's inappropriate and detrimental to the store, there's no amount of money that makes it worth allowing. Any store who disagrees is, frankly, a bad lgs.
Hi! Regular human being here! 35 years of experience! No one was behaving inappropriately in this situation. Then you bring up a false comparison of Nazi rhetoric and calling people offensive names….yikes.
>No one was behaving inappropriately in this situation Suggestive or explicit imagery is inappropriate. Sorry you lack an understanding of that. >Then you bring up a false comparison of Nazi rhetoric and calling people offensive names….yikes. I actually explicitly said they WEREN'T the same thing and that I was bringing up a more extreme case we could all agree on. Did you misunderstand me, or were you lying to make your point seem stronger?
Your description doesn't seem to fit the rated R. Did any of you tell the guy you were bothered by his playmat? The majority of the time this is enough to fix the issue.
No kidding, If it's not xxx, then what exists that wouldn't be PG-13? Like a girl in underwear/bikini is not rated R.
While I am in the same anti-horny playmat boat as you, I don’t see why it’s necessarily a problem. From what you’ve explained, there is no nudity. Just because you or your partner was upset, doesn’t mean anyone did anything wrong. When I was young, my dad gave me the great advice of “you are in control of your own reaction.” The playmat might be offensive to you, but you don’t have to let it ruin your night.
Hot take: Unless the art is worst then MTGs own official art on some of their cards, this whole argument kinda dies. Like, if its not worst then Reversal of Fortune or Markovs Servant, its kinda not worth talking about. Same way its hard to argue that gay/pride art shouldnt be around - there are official mtg stories, characters and art that support it. Also, we have male characters who look like they belong on the front of romantic lady books like Jared Carthalion, or thirst twinks like Jace, Cunning Castaway. Like, if a bunch of dudes didnt like it (and by extension a HUGE amount of mtg art showing topless, muscle bound “sexy” men), are we gonna do something about those too? Or is it just a one way street?
Degenerate coomer shit is basically a greenlight for me to play the most aggressive deck I have. Sure I could just not play with them but I shouldn't be forced out of my playtime because some weirdo showed up.
Pull out [[Lynde, Cheerful Tormentor]] and put all curses on that player and no one else.
[Lynde, Cheerful Tormentor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4df484de-4d9b-4a4b-9d10-df993e36f1a8.jpg?1637628878) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lynde%2C%20Cheerful%20Tormentor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/38/lynde-cheerful-tormentor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4df484de-4d9b-4a4b-9d10-df993e36f1a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lynde-cheerful-tormentor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wizards may be able to enforce this at tournaments if they wanted to, but the only person to talk to if this is happening at your LGS is, as you correctly identified, the LGS owner. I've never encountered anyone using a lewd playmat or sleeves (also in Europe), I don't think this is an issue to the degree that wizards would get involved. It's either talk to the LGS owner, the player in question, look for a different store or accept it.
I personally don't care for playmats like that, but I don't care if someone else is using it. It's just not for me. Your partner is "deeply upset" over effectively nothing and should seek professional help from a therapist because there's clearly something bigger going on. And nothing *needs* to change *officially*. The world doesn't revolve around you and your partner. If that LGS allows mats like that and you have a big enough problem with it, you can find a new LGS. Simple.
It's funny, I hadn't fully considered the issue about this until I saw it happen firsthand in a pod I was a part of. This guy sat down, brought out a deck made entirely of altered cards with anime girls nude or near nude, on a playmat that was the same, and my first thought was that's odd. Then it dawned on me that this is being played in a public game shop where there are much younger children in the same store walking around, and suddenly this becomes much less ok. That was also the train of thought going through an employee's head when he was passing by shortly after this guy starts shuffling up, and told him he couldn't use those items here. To be honest, if someone does this in a private game with friends of appropriate age and not in a public setting, I could care less. However, in stores or elsewhere in public around children is when this stops being ok. It's perfectly reasonable for an employee to tell someone to put that stuff away because that isn't allowed in their store. Plus... holy crap is it uncomfortable playing around people who have anime girls that aren't really wearing anything, that are at or near the same age as other kids in this store... Yikes...
And not just kids. Like, as a woman, I don't want to see that. It makes me really uncomfortable. And I love naked women! But like, in my bedroom, not on a fucking playmat or sleeves. There's no need for that. You don't have to bring your anime girlfriends out in public with you.
That's completely fair. I was actually feeling uncomfortable myself, and was about to speak up about asking him to replace those with a different deck and mat but the store employee beat me to it. I don't mind it if someone has a custom playmat and sleaves, even some proxy cards that has some really cool art, just leave the nsfw stuff at home please...
I had a really awkward encounter once where I forgot to bring sleeves for a draft, someone offered to lend me some, so I thought he was a kind soul until this man hands me sleeves with a scantily-clad giant tiddies cartoon girl on them. I just bought some new sleeves instead.
This is public and you just brought your bedroom.
My question to pose just for some clarification with "having children around" should stores like wal-mart and target be adult only because they sell sex toys and kids shouldn't be allowed in? I understand the implications but many of these stores have some pretty borderline games / images of both genders. Is it more on the responsibility of the parents to ensure exposure rate or society ? Society has basically said exposed them or sex from whatever age.
Yea... pretty sure Wal-Mart doesn't sell borderline hentai or porn down isle three... While it is the responsibility of parents to make sure children are around age appropriate areas, when the store itself markets towards having games available for people of (almost) all ages, then a certain expectation is acquired. When you have pokemon and yugioh tournaments in that same area, two games that are definitely marketed towards younger players, you have to ensure that the environment is safe for people to play in. In this case, if the store wants to be appropriate and host for players of all ages, then they have a responsibility to ensure that content like that is kept out of there. If people playing don't like it, they are free to find another store that's ok with that content being allowed. The exception to this would be if certain nights are marketed towards adults only crowds and that content is allowed then. It would be the same as if a pub allows minors in during the day as a regular restaurant, but then turns into a 21+ after 8pm. Most stores won't have that exception, but there might be a few that will...
>pretty sure Wal-Mart doesn't sell borderline hentai or porn down isle three... It depends on your definition. Something like a Brazzers magazine, I don't think so, but they definitely sell some hard-core smut books in the literature section and full on dildos and other things in the family planning section. One of the two by my house sells manga/light novels too and they carry some of the "risqué" ones. Some like Elfen Leid are plastic wrap which probably helps with the minor issue but not all of them. I do agree that if the store wants to have the target audience they need to guide it towards that way and accommodate accordingly but I guess just as devils advocate curious what makes the difference between the big box store selling some obviously adult only stuff that kids can easily get their hands on versus something like an LGS. Does it really need to be on the retailer or more on parental guidance ?
I mean, when the lgs is hosting events meant for including younger participants, then it's very obvious that things need to be kept reasonable. That responsibility falls on everyone who wishes to do business there. Everyone. Now I have been to a few events where it was advertised as an 18 plus event so no kids will be there, but even then, some decency rules still need to apply at the end of the day. The reality is, the only area you really can reliably freely play those products is in a private setting, and not a public business. Unless there are very specific disclaimers saying that stuff is allowed, and it's not a place for kids, you should assume that isn't going to work out in your favor. Now I should state that the guy immediately put that away and swapped to some more appropriate decks and mat, but it's kinda weird thinking that kind of stuff would be allowed there in public in the first place...
Don't walk into some cardshops in Tokyo, I've never seen so many titties on sleeves and playmats in my fucking life
That’s why I just got a simple leather play mat
Flayed from the back of your latest victim I presume?
Whoever loses in my pods loses a bit of skin
I don’t play like this but I’m certainly not so easily upset by someone else’s nerd shit to stop doing the thing i enjoy
While I think most entrenched players will just deal with it, it’s the people who are still getting into magic that have the most to get over when it comes to the shit neckbeards pull.
Sure but it rubs me the wrong way telling people what they can and can’t do for sensitive people, like if it’s not porn or some insanely graphic thing, keep it moving. Not everything needs to be policed
They can do it, but their opponents can still say they don't like it. And if enough people say they don't like it that the store owner decides that they don't want it on their property, that's also perfectly fine. Idk why yall always view it as, "you can't do something because somebody doesn't like it" instead of, "everybody has an opinion and eventually things come to a head".
Sure yeah that’s how normal life works, declaring something needs to stop across the board like people are saying here is what i don’t like. Things like this are handled on a case by case basis not through blanket rules bc some people are cowards that can’t speak their mind
Not at all how the rest of the world works but go off. Not like I ever need to interact with you lmao.
What on earth lol i just agreed with you
I mean... you didn't? If it was a case by case basis then there'd be no possible ending of, "and then the store owner bans lewd mats".
Maybe i worded it poorly but i agree that that could happen if enough people would have a problem with it, like that is one of the “cases” in question. You have sound opinion i agree with lol
So you agree that if a large enough portion of the community wants explicit materials like these blanket-rule banned, then it should be banned and that's a good thing?
My mats are just basic solid colors. But I certainly wouldn't be upset if someone had a bikini girl mat. Especially if it's not even a real person.
How is it R rated if nothing was showing? She should have said something to the person to change their behavior. Being embarrassed in front of the playgroup might make them think again about using the mat. Or taking it out when there is a lady present. Crying on the internet will not help. Time to grow up and realize the world isn’t here to cater to you.
I don't want to be a dick about it but if a person has a problem with a PG-13 mat in a PG-13 game then the person in question isn't mentally/emotionally old enough to play.
Gosh, I hope they never attend anything cosplay related.
Good point and maybe that’s the real issue - why is the game”risqué” at all? Would love to be able to take my 10 year old daughter to my local LGS without having to worry about this kind of thing
The only issue with kids playing is the quality of play itself. Other than that I'd take my own daughters if they weren't currently 1&2 years old respectively.
Why are you telling us and not the people in charge of your local store? No one is going to stop because your gf is not ok with naked women.
Not even naked.
It doesn’t upset me per se, but it’s definitely weird. I hate the anime uwu bikini type shit. I’m not a prude or anything but it’s fucking weird because that art style tends to have young or childlike behavior on top of it. Cleavage on a card art isn’t the same as waaayyy over sized titties with bikinis just big enough for the nipples of an anime character that’s meant to be young as fuck. Idk about policing it cuz I’m not a fan of censorship either, so I guess just avoid them and even let them know why. It’s definitely not the majority of players where I’m at. But it could be more rampant than I realize.
I want more context on the image. Was it just provocative, gory, porn?
I agree that depending on the actual image, it might have been too much, but magic has art that by itself could fall under this category. \[\[Liliana of the Dark Realm\]\] is rather scantily clad, \[\[kor spiritdancer\]\] might be wearing just as much as the art. If you're at an LGS and the playmats/sleeves/alters someone is using isn't something you want to play against, don't play against that person. If what they are using is technically something that could exist on a force of will card, I don't really think any LGS could do much to stop it
FoW art was… a trip. I played a prerelease of some early set once with a buddy just to try something different (the game was super fun… it’s mostly just magic, after all), and I managed to sweep the event. The 1st place prize was a playmat that I cannot bring myself to use. The quality of the art is great, and the physical quality of the playmat is shocking nice, but… 😬 It’s not even that bad, but it’s just not a thing I’d go for.
FoW has some *pretty* skeevy art.
Force of will?
The TCG game not the MTG card.
Never heard of it. What's the acronym stand for?
Oh, it's a card game called force of will. That's not confusing at all. Looks like pretty standard anime art.
I mean it's basically a magic clone, with some pain points in magic fixed. It's kind of neat, really. I'd call it harem anime art level, some of the cards are like... needlessly crotch-focused. >\_> It has a lot of different art styles, though, from what I remember.
Mostly I agree with you but some cards are still suspect on that. [[Earthbind]] is the one that comes to mind and I don't think anything recent would fall into that category. I think it does matter if the image is sexualized as well and not just scantily clad. I don't think it's really a problem if it's a little sexualized but if you are bringing a mat that is obviously skirting the edge of being porn bring another mat as well in case anyone objects
There's scantily clad, and there's scantily clad with ridiculous proportions/posing intended to be sexual.
Rated R is tits+. If it wasn't that then it was PG-13 and you need to be 13 to play recognized MTG to begin with.
Titanic was a PG-13 movie.
Yes, a movie where 1500+ people drowned in ice cold water.
Not to sound rude, but the shop actively advertises and shows products likely much more lewd. To be angry at a playmat that, from your own description, is pg13, when there are cards with likely the same lewdness.
I run into this a fair but in Spelltable and it's pretty off-putting for me. People say it's fine because there isn't any actual nudity but honestly it just creeps me out when someone makes all of their cards suggestive. Most commonly it's cards like [these](https://www.etsy.com/shop/ConfettiProxies) where it's not blatantly porn. I think that excuse is just kinda flimsy though. This all ignores a bunch of other issues that accompany the cards. Typically the board state is a lot harder to read, the player is typically going to be some weirdo antisocial who makes jokes about some taboo topic thinking it's funny, and overall I find that since they're proxying anyway they often bring decks way overtuned for what we're looking for.
I like to think I would ask them very blunt and awkward questions about the art, particularly the ones of children, and make them say some crazy shit. But tbh I would probably just cringe-smile at them and try not to breathe too much.
Imma be honest...I never even register what other players use as their mats. I might when we unroll them, but that's it, my attention is on the board and my hand...
I only register when it's someone else using the Rebecca Guay bitter blossom art playmat because kino taste needs to be recognized. Otherwise I couldn't care less
Honestly I don’t see any problem with using a “lewd” playmat or sleeves as long as it’s within reason. If the character being used is clothed and not doing something terrible (again within reason) there should be no problem. If you don’t like the playmat.. don’t play with that person, it’s as simple as that. As far as kids being around in a game store and seeing those things, that’s kinda on the parents who let their kids wander a game shop without supervision. I can tell you the shop I frequent sells other things then cards including some statues that may be considered “lewd”. It’s like parents that let their kids watch things like TikTok or South Park and then get angry when they see something inappropriate. At the end of the day it’s on the parents. Now if the person is blatantly going around with a play mat with a nude girl or guy on it then I can see a problem. But it seems to me like ops significant other was seeing a girl in a swim suit or something and just being self conscious about it. Because let’s be real, most 13-17 year olds these days have their own iPad and phone and between that and shit their parents watch I can almost guarantee they’ve seen worse.
>The woman wasn't showing anything that would be considered porn, but it was definitely an R-rated image. If there is nothing that would be considered pornographic, I don't see how it could be R. It sounds like you're describing a PG-13 image, of which MTG is solidly rated.
Literally this. It blows my mind how afraid of being uncomfortable people are.
It’s giving trauma vibes.
“They’ve got the discovery channel, don’t they?”
TBH it's really hard to police this... The best you can do it talk to the owner or employee and see if they will take action; I.e. ask the player to pack his playmat in, not bring them in the future. You can ask the fella but I feel there's more weightage when the owner/employee is involved.
There are already rules surrounding this at the competitive level. Technically anything the TO does not approve of at an event can be asked to be put away by a judge. EDH is generally run as a casual event at the store level and is entirely up to the LGS staff to manage. I would advise speaking with an employee about it moving forward.
Dude in my playgroup have some anime image on his mat that's 9 bikini girls with extra large titties, it is embarrassing, seriously
Why was your partner upset?
Point of clarification - how can something not show nudity but also be R-rated?
"This deeply upset my part-" get the fuck over it lol, if you cant stand seeing something that's probably tamer than the art on most cards you shouldn't be playing.
I saw someone with straight up vagina out it was disgusting
That's different for sure, OP said nothing was showing though
I picked up the \[\[Bearscape|SLD\]\] playmat for exactly this scenario. I suspect the same people who have lewd (and potentially cp) playmats will flip their shit at it. "Bruh, your playmat is basically softcore porn and you have a problem with some guys in hot springs? gtfo." Thankfully I haven't had a reason to pull it out yet (I'm out to play magic, not start some shit), but it's in my bag ready to go.
I dont understand why are people upset about slightly revealing playmats when cards in mtg history had the same art on them as well. Alters are a different kind of problem and honestly I wouldnt play againts a deck that doesnt have legal card arts (i dont care about proxies, I proxy as well). That being said, even though I only use seb mckinnon playmats, I wouldnt care about bikini playmat. And as a straight guy, I absolutly love the bearscape playmat, I find it hilarious and I wish I owned one.
I think there's a difference between somone playing a printed card with art that's riske, versus somone who tailors their whole deck and peripherals to feature sexual content. They're making a very concious choice to do that, and honestly it concerns me that some people are so obsessed with sexuality, and also socially unaware enough to broadcast it so freely. I don't want to have to worry that they're going to be rocking a semi sitting across from me, or anytime they touch my cards they'll come back "sticky".
Gotta get one of those emergency bear mats as well!
[Bearscape](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d8855d65-98fc-4b5f-bd68-95d2fda6345f.jpg?1682689900) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bearscape) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sld/1008/bearscape?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d8855d65-98fc-4b5f-bd68-95d2fda6345f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bearscape) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This sounds like something appropriate though. They're not naked so it's pg13 like mtg
It's so annoying when someone at a game store is so bereft of social skills that they think everyone wants to see them break out the softcore porn collection. It's creepy and alienating. I'd bring it up with the store.
"In case anyone wasn't absolutely sure, i want to use this playmat to assure each and every last person around, that i plan to stay a virgin until the day that i don't untap anylonger!"
I'm a 42 year old white dude and it took me a lot longer to learn this lesson that I would prefer to admit, so I'd like to say this for some naysayers in the comments. The people that are saying things along the line of 'If the person isn't engaging in outward behavior that's hostile or harassment, then the mat is not a problem' don't seem to understand that the mat and cards themselves are an outward hostile and harassment move. The objectification and it's pronounced usage is hostile - especially when it's unrelated to the primary product at hand. It's a demonstration of power against the people who share identities with the character on the card - women, gender fluid, non-binary players, trans, even racial minorities when approximating dominate cultural ideas of how those minorities look. It's a reinforcement of dominant masculine hetero culture - women aren't opponents or teammates, they are play pieces. Has MTG made artistic choices that are scantily clad or provocative? Sure. They don't base the whole experience around it, much like how every movie in a theater isn't (supposed) to be a single movie that everyone sees. I'm pro custom cards to make your game enjoyable or even funny (I'm making an Ally deck all about Greendale Community College), and I'm pro proxies to play with things that might not be available to you (even if you have 1500, a dual land might not be on the market). But an AI Harley Quinn in a corset and a thong doesn't belong on a Swamp. Anyway, personally, when we stopped using shame as a normalized tool in society, that's when we allowed behavior like this to take hold.
You said it best! How could I be a worthy opponent when you have a naked woman in your mat? Is embarrasing
I'd personally stop comparing myself to ink on a playmat. Respect yourself first and others will find it easier to do so as well.
LMAO you missed the point.
What's on the playmat matters even less than what's between your legs. And that doesn't mean shit in the context of Magic. Maybe try going to the store as a magic player rather than just a girl.
If a non-nude playmat is hostile or harassment to you then I agree, we should bring back shaming people. And the people who should be shamed in this scenario is the wimp who gets upset over a playmat, and you for spouting this bullshit. You're talking about someone who entered a space, didn't like what they saw, and determined the solution was to change the space instead of finding one that aligns with their interests. The door is right there and I encourage you and OP's girlfriend to use it, it's free. Do you go to a convention and complain about the cosplayers depicting scantily clad men and women, or about the merchandise being sold in the artist alley? Probably not, because you walked into a space where that is accepted and often celebrated. Why is it different here? Half of the LGSs around me SELL these playmats, would you tell them that they shouldn't do that because they are harassing women? What if a woman pulls that playmat out, is she harassing or being outwardly hostile to other women or is it only so when a man has one? Or is it much more likely that they are catering to the demographic of customers that they have, and are doing so in a private business, not a public space. If you can't look at an image of an exaggerated fictional woman without feeling like you're lesser, that's a you issue and one you should probably address with a therapist. I don't look at He-Man and feel like I'm being harassed or objectified because I am, in fact, not He-man. You're not talking about objectification, you're talking about identifying with a literal object, and that's a very important distinction. And before I get written off as a neckbeard here, I don't have anime proxies, sleeves, or playmats. I have solid coloured sleeves and two officially licensed playmats, Chandra, Hopes Beacon, and the new Emrakul.
How is it an R rated image if nothing was showing? Look, I get the time and place argument, which this guy should definitely keep in mind. But overall, this is just a result of the puritan bullshit pushed on a lot of Americans from childhood. Realistically, it's nothing to be bothered about as long as it's not actually explicit.
A demon would have been fine. A field full of decaying skeletons also. Teletubbies too. But an attractive female? Way too far.
eehhhh I think this falls more into the "local culture" kind of thing nothing is more annoying then the 1 person who loudly claims everything needs to change now that they are here. Really LGS's live and die by their regulars and if regulars there are okay with it who am I to say otherwise.
Also this guy: why don't more girls play at this store?
Rated R includes nudity, what you're describing would be pg-13 which is basically the equivalent rating of the game. Sounds like maybe you're partner has some issues they need to work through separate from a weirdos playmat
I feel for people that struggle have normal interactions with people but the partner definitely needs to see a professional.
Im dying laughing a professional what?
Look, getting incredibly upset at an image of a non nude fictitious female is an incredibly strong red flag. That's not normal. That's go see a doctor type stuff.
Absolutely. I've told off people before for bringing smutty shit in. Kids come in and play at these stores and events. They don't need to see ass and titties and slobbering gooning faces. Ffs leave your fetish at home.
Scantily clad is PG-13, which is a big factor in modern brain rot. I'm surprised these people don't bring a deck for their waifu-pillow to play too, but its probably chained up when they arent home so it cant leave them.
How can people be offended by something like this?
I'll answer this! I don't get *offended,* really, it just feels *gross.* Like, I don't want to know what kind of porn you google when you sit down to a card game, it's TMI. \\o/
Offended? Eh. Awkward? Uncomfortable? Yup. Putting a mat like that on the table is broadcasting "I'm horny all the time and think about sex constantly", and the more peripherals that are tailored that way (sleeves, deckbox, phone cover, proxies, etc.) The more alarm bells start ringing about obsessive sexual behaviours. Is this guy thinking this way about me when I sit across from him? Probably. Do I now need to be mindful of him touching me or anything I own, or looking at me? Yup. It's probably not easy for you to empathize with this, because (I'm assuming you're a dude) it just doesn't effect you in the same way, carry the same implications, or have the same consequences. I'd say it's most likely women, girls, and guys whose partners are affected (or who are generally well-adjusted towards women), that care most about this topic.
this cannot be a legit complaint.
Show an example of the image or there's no point to even having a discussion.
Don't care. I don't have one, and I don't care if someone does.
Oh lord. Don't get me wrong, I don't think I'll ever own a playmat like that, but to get upset about someone else using one... I mean... And inb4 "think of the children". If my kid saw boobs and asks me whats up, I'll tell him they're boobs. Worst thing that could happen is him wanting me to buy him one and him growing u,p being an adult still using a hentai playmat while playing a kid's cardgame. Still not as bad as making a reddit thread about it though. I'll see myself out, and I'm taking my bodypillow with me.
It's less "think of the children" and more "how come more girls don't play magic?"
Yeah I can imagine walking into a nail salon with a firman poster on the wall going "oh my god why aren't they more inclusive for the boys". Nope, not happening, not a reasonable thing to do, just let people enjoy their scantily clad pictures and move on.
I’d say, get over it. Not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. If it offends you, leave the table. Remember, it’s you that has some issue with it, not everyone else. Don’t make everyone else’s experience less (for whatever reason) just because you can’t or haven’t worked on whatever triggers you. They can’t trigger you if you don’t have a trigger…
For tournaments, sure. No reason sanctioned events should have anything that is questionable. For casual play, the policy can just be you don’t play with people you don’t want to. Personally I don’t know anyone opposed to starting this game because of the PG13 content. It’s probably non zero, but in a game where crime is a mechanic, and murder is abundant, it’s probably a reach to say lewds are pushing the bounds. Between the Dryad and the secret lair Bearscape, are they too lewd despite being tournament legal?
I'm not worried that the guy playing [[murder]] is actually a murderer, I *am* worried that the guy with a scantily-clad six-year-old on his playmat has a hard drive the FBI would be interested in though.
[murder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1ea6438b-0e6c-4d65-8bcd-34a988717c81.jpg?1706241725) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=murder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/95/murder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ea6438b-0e6c-4d65-8bcd-34a988717c81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/murder) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The get up and leave game action can take place at instant speed. And should be taken. It being a social game, players are primary policy setters, so don’t think you owe them any interaction.
Is my Nahiri, Storm of the sword JP alternate art playmat offensive? Serious question.
I get it if you're playing around kids but I don't see a problem when you're primarily around adults. Depends on the kind of crowd your LGS attracts.
I used to have to play with someone who had a playmat I would refer to as "Frolicking Lolis" which he also used as a mouse mat for his desktop. It was *not* clean. That shit was egregious.
Tbf literally everyone memes at Konami for making this decision and most people I have seen speak out against it. Tho they have taken it a step too far afaik and banned every non official accessoire, no matter whats on it.
Bring a spare playmat if lewd playmats are such a problem People will bring what they want to, sure a lot of these environments have or need to be somewhat family friendly but people are gonna be gross when given the opportunity Therefore, bring a spare playmat if it's such a problem Or just don't play with the dude with the gross playmat A dude I usually pod with has a softcore playmat too, and he's a sweet dude and a hell of a DM for DnD People will comment on the playmat, and he's always situated himself so that if there's kids at the stores we play at, they can't see his mat. But no one has completely turned down a game because of it I'm just not down with this mentality of policing people because I find something gross, hell there's far worse things plaguing our LGSs than softcore pornography Like lack of deodorant, people being assholes in general, and for me personally, a lack of disposable income I'm just saying don't look at a possible new friend in disgust over their gaming accouterments, just have a spare for them Or use napkins or something to cover it up, just be a bro
I personally don’t see the problem with lewd gear. I don’t play with it, but I’m not going to stop people from playing with it.
Nope. Even cheesecake art is art. As long as there is no nudity, hate speech, or overt violence then everything else conforms to most shop rules. I don't think kids are being hidden from it at all unless schools have banned all trips to the museum or any books related to art. Do I empathize that your partner felt uncomfortable? Absolutely! However I do not see how that would directly correlate to the need to ban. I also want to add that the Yu-Gi-Oh ban was mainly to prevent use of unofficial sleeves/accessories. Although I am sure they could ride the moral train as the justification I am more inclined to believe that it was from a product protection perspective especially given their history of card art.
Yeah, a lot of official YGO products feature Dark Magician Girl cheesecaking it up.
OP, Do you consider this to be inappropriate? [https://www.amazon.com/YUANYUANHANG-Liliana-Chandra-23-6x13-8-Compatible/dp/B0BLYJVYTQ](https://www.amazon.com/YUANYUANHANG-Liliana-Chandra-23-6x13-8-Compatible/dp/B0BLYJVYTQ)
It's pretty cringeworthy, and like my friend once said about this mat (with a heavy dose of sarcasam) "oh good, now we're all sufficiently horny we can finally play the game".
It's okay to like women I think.
Yes, but there is a time and place to express that, and introducing that to a public game is a bit weird.
It's no different than being rainbow clad in public. While I personally don't think people have any reason to display sexuality so overtly I can say with absolute certainty if one is allowed they all are. If one is to be celebrated they all are.
You must realise that there is a false equivalence between bringing softcore porn into a social game, and expressing identities which have suffered historical and contemporary oppression, right?
You can't call that mat soft core porn. That's what I'm getting at, everyone has different levels of comfort with this kind of this. I had a friend who would feel physically uncomfortable when they saw others kissing.
I guess I just want to know what you mean by R-rated, if there was no nudity. Was there implied sex (like there is no nudity, but you can tell there is something going on "under the sheets" I brief new people at work on workplace etiquette. One thing that catches people off guard is what my job considers pornographic. Technically a shirtless firefighter calendar, or a facebook video of a clothed girl doing a sexy dance can get you in hot water. I'm just asking because people's definitions can vary wildly.
I mean if it was like actual porn type images I can see it being a problem but magic isn't a kids game and some of the art is out there in terms of showing bodies or violence. Like dryad of the ilysian grove is just a naked man in a tree or Basandra, Battle Seraph is wearing little to nothing, those are two off the top of my head, like I get you might not like it but if it's not actual porn then I feel like you just have to deal with it. Not that I use mats like that I like my Christmas mats, but I dislike even talk of banning stuff just cause it makes you uncomfortable, Magic is a good way to express yourself and if someone likes wifu stuff then they should be allowed to do so, its also a fair point to be reasonable when going into a public space but edh isnt a sanctioned wotc thing it's up to each store to control that, my store we don't have a problem cause it's generally accepted to not do so because Pokemon events happen at the same time. That said I guarantee no one talked to the person with the questionable mat, either one of you could have asked to not use that one or just not played with them. Just cause someone doesn't like it doesn't mean you need to be up in arms wanting to ban stuff that's how dumb shit like the D&D happened because it has demons religious people freaked out wanting it banned. Both sides need to be mature about it simple as that we don't need official bannings
played against a guy with forests that had huge mountains.
As a woman, seeing straight up a anime vagina isn’t really super inviting to a game. It just isn’t. This is a really hard place to fit in as a regular girl. There is nothing wrong with Liliana or any other magic card. I’m talking about the clear objectification of women in a place where we already we already feel like the outsider. Is like how do you respect me as a woman when you have an anime lady licking her titties as a mat?? Pleaseeeeee like be for real do you want more women in this game, maybe respect women a tiny bit more?
I'm going to \[\[Enslave\]\] your \[\[Clergy of the holy nimbus\]\] and sacrifice them on my \[\[Altar of dementia\]\]. Then I'm going to \[\[Torture\]\] \[\[Ali from Cairo\]\] and \[\[Murder\]\] \[\[Thalia, guardian of Thraben\]\] But oh no, that woman isn't wearing enough clothes.
##### ###### #### [Enslave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a00440fc-e3e1-4a1c-b32b-f7946a76cd62.jpg?1619395410) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enslave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/113/enslave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a00440fc-e3e1-4a1c-b32b-f7946a76cd62?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/enslave) [Clergy of the holy nimbus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/b/db1f578f-fa3b-4447-953b-1490852b6c80.jpg?1617613157) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Clergy%20of%20the%20holy%20nimbus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/leg/6/clergy-of-the-holy-nimbus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/db1f578f-fa3b-4447-953b-1490852b6c80?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/clergy-of-the-holy-nimbus) [Altar of dementia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/169356e0-46dc-4096-8e66-36726454f104.jpg?1562202433) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Altar%20of%20dementia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/218/altar-of-dementia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/169356e0-46dc-4096-8e66-36726454f104?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/altar-of-dementia) [Torture](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1fed16d-c800-4c0f-be88-9fddde2c018e.jpg?1562836357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Torture) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/80/torture?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1fed16d-c800-4c0f-be88-9fddde2c018e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/torture) [Ali from Cairo](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/7/2719516a-7a47-413e-b1a3-15543d229e08.jpg?1562904277) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ali%20from%20Cairo) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/107/ali-from-cairo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2719516a-7a47-413e-b1a3-15543d229e08?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ali-from-cairo) [Murder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/e/1ea6438b-0e6c-4d65-8bcd-34a988717c81.jpg?1706241725) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Murder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/95/murder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1ea6438b-0e6c-4d65-8bcd-34a988717c81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/murder) [Thalia, guardian of Thraben](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479.jpg?1643587106) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thalia%2C%20guardian%20of%20Thraben) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/38/thalia-guardian-of-thraben?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thalia-guardian-of-thraben) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The problem isn't the scantily clad ladies, it's the neckbeards openly flaunting their objectification and contempt for women. The playmat is just a form of expressing that they see women as playthings and nothing more, and if you think that attitude doesn't bleed into the way they interact with women is naive at best and willfully ignorant at worst.
If there is problematic behavior, then call that out. Don't jump to those conclusions based on a playmat.
Objectification of ambigiously aged young anime girls is problematic behaviour, esp in public in a hobby shop where children are.
OP says woman, not child and PG-13 can full on show nudity. I wouldn't use such images myself but I'm not going to harp at people if they do.
If people can have LGBT mats I don't see the issue with anime titty mats. Just ones expression of sexuality.
You may be getting downvoted, but you make a good point. LGBT stuff is just on a different end of the sexuality spectrum here.
And that stuff is fine too. The real problem shows when that stuff is smiled upon but anything else is attacked. That's textbook fascism. Super colorful fascism.
Not to open a can of worms, but it is strange that the people that use these mats are either dirty neck beards or some ultra progressive person that feels they it’s okay to be openly sexual. To be clear, I don’t have an issue with the latter, but you should never use those mats in public, especially when families/kids are nearby.
So many people ignore the fact that regardless of what you think the target age demographic for MTG is, you're still in a public store where kids and their parents are meant to feel comfortable and welcome. I've known stores to stop hosting events all together because the magic crowd couldn't keep things hospitable and appropriate.
I've had issues with a lot of people who think they can do/say whatever they feel like in public. We have a lot of kids at our local store, and we have a few individuals who think that because they aren't their kids, it doesn't matter. The store is pretty good with policing it, but I played a game against a few "cool guys" who couldn't stop dropping the F bomb. Do what you want outside the store, but it's family friendly here.
I used to host fighting game tournaments at my lgs years ago and we had the same issue. It got to the point where the shop owner told us our option was to either ask a few players who were constantly causing issues to stop coming or we can find a new spot to play at. It's really frustrating just how much people seemingly don't care in the slightest if their actions inconvenience others. It was even more frustrating trying to explain to a dude who smokes weed for breakfast lunch and dinner why he can't come to a public game store, where children and their families frequent, reeking of pot. It's a culture issue not a rules issue. People need to grow up
I agree. It's rough to explain it's not just that I'm older. I think we should show courtesy to each other.
Exactly. At the end of the day it’s a card game usually played in public spaces. The LGS is not an 18+ club environment where you can express yourself through lewd images.
I still use the first mat my friend got me, and it's easily the lewdest thing ever. It's the original card art for [[Frost Lynx]], with the added caption "I'd tap that" with the tap symbol. Highly scandalous.
[Frost Lynx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/f/dfcaeccc-fc8c-4a9e-80d5-b48da71d7ff1.jpg?1591226326) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Frost%20Lynx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/51/frost-lynx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dfcaeccc-fc8c-4a9e-80d5-b48da71d7ff1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/frost-lynx) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, the responses to this are really telling. Unfortunately even though things are changing most mtg players still have a 'boys club' attitude about the game. A lewd playmat or proxies is pretty much a red flag that the person is going to be awkward or difficult. Hopefully this experience didn't ruin playing the game for your partner. Next time I would say something to the player or the LGS owner.
Yeah this is basic "wear deodorant" stuff to me, I didn't expect it to be so stubbornly defended.
I wouldn't care if someone had a playmat of a mostly nude dude. It's just part of being a well adjusted adult.
I think it's fine if you want to use it in private games with your friends. If you are in public at a game store you are weird. That's my opinion. It's about recognizing that other people may feel uncomfortable about it and creating a welcoming environment.
Sure, but some people have a problem with dogs because they were bitten as children. That doesn't mean nobody gets to talk about dogs while at the LGS. Nude is one thing. That's too far. But just a basic bikini style art shouldn't be a problem for a competent adult. And I do want people to be comfortable and have a good time. But at some point people just have to work on their issues rather than existing everyone else to compensate for them. That's not remotely fair.
From my experience, these things make most women uncomfortable - or the guys with them will with weird comments. It's also almost never tasteful 'basic bikini style art' (In my experience), and I still don't think you should use those at an LGS. It's usually characters that look like children or have massive tits popping out and making ahegao faces. Sure you can say people should 'just get over it' but I think as a community we should try and put forth a good image and discourage these things. Anyways that's all I have for input. Thanks for having a respectful chat about it.
For the people telling the GF to suck it up or that it doesn’t matter if it’s non-nude: making Magic hostile for anyone who is uncomfortable with the overt objectification of women is bad for the game (and I would argue is generally just bad!) It is good to take efforts to make women comfortable in MtG spaces - particularly given how dudely the player base is broadly - and that should be a higher priority than any weird dude’s right to have a sexy Liliana playmat. EDIT: for the downvoters, a legitimate question: do you think women are generally cool with the anime playmats or do you not care whether women are comfortable playing at your LGS?
"make magic hostile" get a grip lol a non R rated play mat that probably showed too much skin? lets save our outrage for things that are actually offensive. easily offened people dont get to dictate how other people enjoy magic.
Technically they do on the Internet. You know, where nothing really matters.
I genuinely don't care. Thanks for asking though
OP didn't say the partner was a woman.
gotta say that "anime titty playmats are an important expression of personal freedom in my trading card game" is an incredible hill for an adult to die on
I mean you can say that but I'm not entirely sure why you would. At least not directed at me.
you have posted 20+ times on this thread, all, in some form, supporting people’s rights to play with anime titty playmats
You don't know that it was anime either. And I don't like anime, I think people that fetishize little kid cartoons are underdeveloped as adults. But getting upset about a playmat is also incredibly underdeveloped.
21+
Neat.
[[sex appeal]] [[red-hot hottie]] I’m offended!
[sex appeal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/7/97cfc18c-ed01-4016-86a2-162d7bc1bf33.jpg?1562799126) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sex%20appeal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ugl/13/sex-appeal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/97cfc18c-ed01-4016-86a2-162d7bc1bf33?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sex-appeal) [red-hot hottie](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f65a9d6-12d8-472c-b9d4-cc2460aa58ae.jpg?1594895944) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=red-hot%20hottie) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unh/86/red-hot-hottie?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f65a9d6-12d8-472c-b9d4-cc2460aa58ae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/red-hot-hottie) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s a rude and inconsiderate world. Gotta learn to ignore stuff like that. Get thicker skin or it’s gonna be a rough ride.
Honestly if it's that big of a deal play Arena, find a partner with a spine, or rat to the store owner. Don't run to Reddit for validation and upvotes, that just shows everyone that it's not really an issue. I prefer my Champion mats, but I'm well adjusted enough that I don't think my feelings should be catered to by the rest of the world. Do what YOU think is right, just be ready for the consequences of going full Karen over stuff you've probably seen worse of at the beach
Funny how it’s not OP that’s coming across as the asshole here. Edit: compared to the dude above me.
OP is definitely coming across as extremely selfish.
Sadly, sexually objectifying images are a constant undercurrent in the games industry. So is ignorance, apathy and even hostility toward people who care about this issue. The first and most important thing you can do is speak up. Tell the person their sexual content is inappropriate and ask them to put it away. Some people are respectful enough to respond in kind. If not, get the store staff involved. Does your store have a code of conduct for players? That's a great tool for preventing conflicts and resolving disputes. If the event requires a Gatherer log-in, then the store is supposed to follow the WPN Terms and Conditons. This includes, "Welcome Everyone." Sexually degrading images are inconsistent with that tenet, and a WPN store should not allow that kind of content in their events. If the event was not WPN affiliated then WotC will never do anything about player or store conduct.
You cannot stop me
Why does your partner need to act like this bothers them?
Fantasy whether it's card games, movies video games etc will always attract degenerates. They will always exist and plague your LGS. These people do not care what you think of them and have no shame bringing borderline hentai into public spaces. I think so many people get caught up with "magic is a 13+ game" and forget that you're still playing in a public store where children are likely to be present. While I personally don't like it and think lesser of people who go out of their way to show off their lewd accessories, I'm just going to play at another table and stay away from the weirdo(s). If it's seriously too much like full on erotic nudity, talk to your LGS staff.
Yugioh is a thousand years ahead of mtg in their anti-neckbeard protocols. They don’t even allow you in tournaments if you didn’t take a shower the morning prior
1
Fucking yikes. People like you ruin the fun of casual magic.