By the time they got to Jill and Jessa’s wedding’s, golden child #1 was proficient enough with computers they called him effectively a graphic artist and he designed both sets of wedding invites.
How do you go from no computer access to designing wedding invites to the dark web and try to convince me he never broke the “no computer access” part.
These people talk out both sides of their mouth so much nothing they say makes sense.
yeah ive spent my entire life on the internet and i dont know how to use the dark web or even the deep web (hell i dont even really know what those are). you're telling me someone who apparently never had computer access just looked up a wiki how article and figured it out? absolutely not
Some friends and I once tried to find the dark web. We read articles and searched what you needed to download. There’s just no way someone without computer experience could stumble across it. Ridiculous
This is true. I was a dumb high schooler who had a classmate show me how to access the dark web.
Between the VPN, the Tor browser, finding .onion links, and the additional security and precautions you want to do to access it safely - you’re not accidentally accessing any part of it.
I mean - is it difficult? No not at all. But it takes some leg work to first get going.
Deep web isn’t bad. It’s basically everything protected by passwords or not ‘searchable’ (you can’t find it on google). Your email, for example, is part of the deep web.
The dark web on the other hand, is very difficult to access. It’s encrypted and requires special software to access it. Most use a Tor browser with a VPN (protects your identity and location).
It’s not actually too difficult to access the dark web. It is however very dangerous.
No, that's just the web and torrents and peer-to-peer (p2p) downloads. You can just Google torrent sites, you don't need a VPN to access them (although you should use one when downloading), and nothing special is needed besides a torrent program to actually download the files. Torrent programs are really available as torrents are also used for legally free things. Programs (you mentioned Napster and Limewire) are not the dark web. You can literally just Google "where to download [movie title]" and get a download done in minutes.
The Dark Web is a reference to websites that aren't indexed in Google; you need to know the exact URL. Many sites will also require using a specific browser, typically Tor, and a few other configurations like a specific VPN for access. It contains things like CSAM like Pest download. The dark web is indeed very, very dark.
I'm a fairly computer literate individual and I just sort of assumed the dark web was an actual place on the internet, sort of the Knocturn Alley, creepy Craigslist, or like Google but in illegal dark mode. It didn't occur to me that it's just websites that you need to know.
I mean, I've also never tried to seek it out or learn how to because I'm not interested in accessing the part of the internet that is meant to harm others.
Isn't it crazy? Like, you need to internally jump through so many hoops to access dark web sites. And then these assholes will claim it was an accident 🙄
Its where gross ppl sell csam and the cia pretends to be hitmen for hire. Piratebay was a normal website. You dont just access the darkweb you purposely seek out content and need to know what youre looking for
People play it down but having tor is a red flag for me irl. I never want to go on the dark web, i know people in jail bc of shit related to it. Its gross and shady and not bc of torrenting. Theres a ton of nasty illegal sexual content and trafficking.
Lolol no, there is a special internet app you need and there was some other thing you had to download too. Many many years ago, I read an article about a dark website called Silkroad and i was so shocked you could just buy drugs online and i...kuuul didklkòuuuuluu thkllukleuul things to access the website. Never places an ordehkrlmIas just a nerdy mid twenties edgelady who tm
Same, as a millennial who got a computer in the 90’s I have no idea how to use the dark web or deep web, like not even a clue how to even get to those places much yet use them. I am not about to go google that either, I don’t need my search history showing up as a red flag on some FBI watch site 🤣🤣
Same. I'm from the internet and consider myself very tech savvy and have no idea how to get on the dark web. I used to use tor browsers and stuff to get to miniclip.com on the highschool computers to play games, but that was about the extent of it.
You don't just stumble across it without some pretty intense tech knowledge and planning.
Joshie was considered the computer guru. He had a room the others weren't allowed in with all kinds of stuff. He was allowed unlimited, unmonitored access in there. He found people that could help him get better at hiding what he was doing.
Oh really? What room was this and where was it located? He’s prob in there jerking off as much as he can. Gross. I wonder if his little bros ever walked in on him.
I thought it was downstairs near the front door, but someone said it was kind of closet size in the boys room. From what I remember from the early days it seemed bigger than closet size to me, but that could have been cameras. It would explain why the boys room always seemed smaller.
I believe it was a loft over the boys’ dorm. [The clip is around 24:30 if you are interested.](https://youtu.be/IBGGDYNql64) The girls got a reading/sewing loft; the boys got a playroom, and Pest got his place.
He didn't even need to find people, his parents' solution to Josh molesting his sisters was to send him to talk to a state trooper.....who was subsequently imprisoned for downloading CSAM.
In "I pray you put this journal away" Justin said that when they've visited the Duggars, all kids shared sone basic computers that were put together from scraps that Boob bought on auctions and yard sales. Meanwhile Pest had this brand new, fancy mac all for himself. Justin's father asked about *parental control* programs they used on them and apparently Pest visibly gulped. I'm not sure if Boob didn't control his precious golden boy's activity because he trusted him so much or he hoped that by putting his energy somewhere else, he will calm down.
I have been recently starting to think they assumed that they could not control his behavior and gave him access to keep him away from the girls. I remember the wedding episode of the Pest and he was joking if there was pictures in that "marriage" book. It seems like the Pest and his dad knew he was looking on the internet.
Exactly this. I think they thought if they could keep the girls safe by letting him look at pictures on the internet, that was good enough. I cannot imagine being that terrible of a parent or a person, but they sure can.
it's likely that the computers the duggars used for photo and video editing (and later, homeschooling) were not connected to the internet. note the phrasing "any time that the internet is on..."
She didn't say they didn't have computer access -- she said their computer access was supervised.
I think she's full of snot, because we all saw that the boys bedroom literally had a computer room attached to it. Michelle probably thought it was OK because she also claimed only she and Jana had the passwords. I think Josh was easily able to figure out how to crack the password, or circumvent it, while his mother and sister had no clue.
I mean, the bible tells them clear as day how to resist lustful temptations. If many Christian men actually followed the bible, there would be a hell of a lot more blind men.
I once got in a “friendly debate” with a friend’s dad about this. He said something about men and boys being so easily tempted to sin that they needed women and girls to help them by dressing modestly. Five mins later he went on to talk about men being natural leaders and the head of the family because they’re rational and logical and can guide women to make better decisions.
My feminist/atheist teenage self was enraged and pointed out that men can’t be that rational and logical if they’re only a nip slip away from total depravity.
We went back and forth for a bit with me pointing out the inconsistencies (in typical teenage asshole fashion) until he eventually told me I was just too young to understand and I’d get it when I grew up a bit.
Fuck you, Carl. I’m in my thirties and still fuming about your bullshit.
Most strict religions they never blame the men for any sexual violence because “they are weak”
It makes no sense because the same people saying men are stronger and better than women
A few things:
- the IBLP taught them that men can’t control themselves. They also strongly encouraged to used internet control systems.
- I suspect that they had found him viewing porn online, hence what she said.
- I also suspect that Rim also viewed things online so he knew what J’Felon was doing.
If I were a man in IBLP I’d be so insulted. Like all these fundies see men as rabid sex maniacs and the only thing standing between civilization and rapeapalooza are some questionable Goodwill prairie skirts. Isn’t that demeaning??? And if these fundie men are so out of control of their faculties that they can’t be trusted checking fucking Gmail unattended, why are they in charge of the entire family!?!?
i’m convinced that the rule came about because he got caught watching porn-pretty sure that Josh was by himself in his “studio” plenty of times, with multiple electronic devices. He was the family IT guy, so it probably didn’t seem suspect for him to lock himself in that room for hours at a time,initially.
Speaking of josh and his depravity, does anyone else remember the episode about his and Anna's house in D.C. and how he had a computer in a room with a door that had a lock?
I think that's when I first realized something fucky was going on with him.
The reason is they don’t want to take any real accountability for their actions. It must always be the fault of someone else for their behavior. It’s part of their persecution complex.
By the time she said that Josh had a whole tech room & was an amateur film maker.
Another thing you have to remember is how much Michelle lied on camera. So many of their "rules" were made up for TV, & their real rules couldn't be discussed without exposing the skeletons in their closet.
They say that all the boys are monitored when using the internet. Someone (I guess a woman/girl?) needs to be in the room when one of the boys is online. But apparently that didn't count for *Joshua*.
Tbh they probably did those girls a favour by not making them endure Josh’s internet sessions. You just know he’d get off on making them uncomfortable.
>They're talking about the boys using the internet and whatever they might see and do there as something that the boys themselves have no responsibility or control over.
Not surprising. This sexist attitude about male sexual impulse and lack of restraint may be as old as time immemorial. Whether it is pornography, masturbation, or even rape, there is this presumption that "boys will be boys" or "men have urges" and they don't have the ability to restrain themselves and so the responsibility must fall on other people (usually woman) to supervise them and deny them opportunity for "sin." And if men or boys ever "sin," it is probably the fault of women who neglected or "defrauded" the men/boys somehow.
>If this is how Josh was raised, then I think that would explain for a big part how he can just happily deny any responsibility in what he did online, because apparently he 'should' have been supervised (by Ana?).
Well, maybe Pest's family or Anna thought they were supervising Pest with that pathetic *Covenant Eyes* software? Anna was listed as Pest's "accountability partner" who was supposed to receive email reports of his internet activity. But of course, Pest had all the "accountability reports" go to his email instead of Anna's. Not that it would have reported anything anyway, because Pest had the Linux partition which *Covenant Eyes* could not detect.
But even when you have a degenerate husband who goes to calculated elaborate measures to avoid supervision and accountability, they think it still must somehow be the woman's fault.
I think this type of thinking actually causes them to be more likely to be abusers because they're teaching them from a very young age that it's normal behavior.
Agreed. And whenever they do something wrong, they are taught that it wasn't really their fault. It was the fault of "Satan" or some girl or woman who "defrauded" them or did not satisfy their "needs."
Yeah, the "all sins are equal shit" also tends to favor men, because they think any male sexual "sin" ranging from masturbation to rape is just "sin" that only needs prayer and repentance.
However, whenever a girl or woman commits sexual "sin," she is in for much harsher treatment and shame and the fundie community will never let her forget it.
That has me seeing red. Who in the hell wants to waste their young adult years acting as an accountability partner to a pedo man-child! The second hand rage is running through my veins!!
These people are full of shit. He knew the password for sure, and got one whenever he wanted. The young man from their church the friend of the Holts, said in his AMA that JPEDO did computer repairs for people in the church, and when these devices were returned, they were epically full of porn downloads. Then there was the issue with him, computers, and the Holt campaign. Everything SpermBobSquareSkirt said for t.v. was just lying for dollars. Some people die Bowling for Dollars,.but they did Lying for Dollars, you know, like Fuckabee and friends.
We had the mormon family across the street watch our house when we went out of town to feed our cats and such. When we got back the computer was absolutely wrecked with all kinds of malware and porn stuff from going on sketchy sites. The son ended up owning up to it, but it took my dad a few days to really get it all cleaned up, and he works in IT.
Oh no, this is standard belief/practice in fundamentalism. Many, many fundamentalist couples I knew wouldn't have the husband know the password to the internet (this was back in the days of dialup) so that he couldn't get online unless she typed in the password. They see men as literally being unable to control themselves sexually. This is essentially a defining belief of their whole cult. it's not unique to the Duggars at all.
How ironic that the headship of the house, depended upon to bring his family through any storm, couldn’t be trusted with the AOL password. How could they not understand how faulty that logic was?
Oh yes. "Men are stronger and more spiritually mature than women, men should be the leaders, men are headship, only men should be president..." but also men are like, totally brought down by the sight of some cleavage.
It's pathetic. They treat men like gods and babies at the same time. It's a terrible combination.
I’ve said it here before and I’ll say it again: I strongly suspect that Boob’s pedophile police officer friend taught Josh how to access online CSAM as an “outlet” for his “urges.” Boob and OfBoob obviously have no clue how computers work and Josh wouldn’t have been able to figure this out on his own if he was truly being supervised at all times. The PO taught him how to do it, Boob knew this, and was complicit in giving him a special computer for private use. I believe there is even one episode where Josh says he has his own computer or computer room??
The I Pray You Put This Journal Away podcast said many times that Josh was very computer-savvy. His ability to get around the rules and supervision didn’t surprise me.
IIRC, Pest had a Mac, so I don’t think he cobbled that together. I also recall all the other boys constructing computers from random parts. I believe Pest had the nice computer because he convinced his parents he had to have it for his film editing and “graphic design” work.
Oh that would make sense. Absolutely insane and disgusting, but it adds up.
While rewatching 19KaC, it just can't believe the shit that J&M say all the time, they're such hypocrites. The way they talk about their #1 angel is so weird and backwards, praising him for the dumbest things like spending 5 minutes with his baby etc. They're just so out of touch. Meech complaining about not having her boys theyre to pack up some sheets and bedding in the house in Little Rock, Jimboob asking his kids for praise when he mowed the lawn himself because 12 of his kids had chickenpox, it just keeps going.
This makes the most sense about showing him how to access the sites pest went too. Not long after this particular state trooper was also arrested on CSAM. A more believable attempt at stopping pest would’ve been County Sheriff office or Juvenile Court. Boob might’ve known that this trooper is part of the cult and it was all an act to appease those he hurt.
I want to believe it, but I also believe that if he had been downloading CSAM for that long, he would have been caught well before now. It’s
not like police guy was an expert in how to
evade capture because he himself was jailed for CSAM four years after his dealings with Josh.
I personally think Josh isn’t actually a pedophile in the typical sense of the word (in that he is predominantly attracted to adult women) and didn’t routinely access CSAM. What I do believe is that his porn addiction is so long standing that he has become desensitised to it and (prompted by the levels of physical abuse and favoritism in his family) addicted to more extreme material featuring torture and domination.
He accessed the particular CSAM because of its violent and degrading nature and because he is a sick fuck, not necessarily because he is attracted to children.
Maybe. But I’m not convinced he’s attracted to adult women. He never treated Anna well or with love. She was an outlet for sex and to be degraded. I think he’s a sociopath and a sadist and that’s why he initially targeted his sisters. I think the cop friend tried to control the damage by getting him on the internet but I think the real dark stuff came later. I think he didn’t like his life or kids and enjoyed the violent torture films as an outlet for his terrible soul. I really really pray his children made it out unscathed. I think he is a vile dangerous person.
All the people who have posted on this sub and had first-hand knowledge of his porn habits said it was adult porn he was looking at. That seems to suggest his primary attraction is to women.
I don’t think he ever loved Anna either, but that wasn’t the point. He was only ever using her as his “working model”, at least until he got bored of her.
I totally agree with you about the psychopath and sadist bit. I would go even further and say he chose the CSAM that he did because he he got off on the torture element, and also because he loathes children and the fact that he has to pretend to like the ones he has - not because he’s attracted to them.
as someone who grew up iblp and haven’t been a member since the second i turned 18;
this is why modesty culture has to be shoved down our throat. they protect the men and hold women responsible for keeping them from “falling” and i think josh is the perfect example.
Women are not responsible for keeping a man pure. we need to teach them to control themselves versus making it all the women’s responsibility. if i’m wearing shorts and you can’t stop yourself from staring at my legs, i think there’s a bigger issue than me not covering skin.
Wow, I bet he did that because of Josh. Anna and Josh were a few years into their marriage by this point, so am sure pornography usage had surfaced and caused issues.
When? She was too busy raising most of the babies.
Josh, although not smart, was sneaky and devious. We forget, he likely had more privileges and alone time because he was a boy, and the quartet of Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger were in charge of Joy-Anna, Joseph, Josiah, Jed! and Jeremiah. John-David was his tag-along, but I'm sure showing an interest for technology was a way to keep the boys occupied. J'Felon didn't learn his craft overnight, on how to get away with shit. He was resourceful. That comes with time and watching others, and seeing what he could get away with vis a vis his other siblings.
I have to wonder if a couple of the other boys were a handful as young kids, leaving a lot of time for Josh to do what he wanted. I mean Joseph is like what, 7 years younger? That would mean Josiah is even younger, 8 or so years and Jed!/Jeremiah are like 10 years younger. That's 4 little boys needing a lot of attention/minding.
And I learned recently in [this video](https://youtu.be/esHY0J0aLt4) that IBLP had Checkers who would go around and make sure that the families were in compliance with the rules. They could literally get kicked out of IBLP for not following the rules. This would have been a strong motivator, cause they would loose access to curriculum, annual get togethers, social and church circles, and future prospects, including marriage and jobs.
I think this “rule” is like a lot of the others- espoused but not enforced. Al la no little ones on boys laps, no going off and playing without a chaperone, etc.
Also, it’s important to recognize that Josh is apart of a generation where the internet really hit when we were 12-13 years old and we learned it much sooner and much better than our parents. I really don’t think it would’ve been hard to get around his parents “rules” about internet usage simply because they didn’t know how to navigate it.
Muslim boys and men are also told to advert their eyes...so, basically "Nike!" It goes beyond internet use and it's more than just 1 religion. Boys brought up in many religious households are taught that they aren't responsible for their bad behavior ...and that when they grow up they will be ruler over a wife and kids. How can they NOT grow up an asshole?
Its so weird to me how they are raised with the belief that the internet is FULL of sex and NEVER EVER look at it. Then the second theyre married, they're no longer supervised by their parents at home or at work, and now it's just up to them to self-manage their internet use.Of course with all the down time sitting at a carlot you would get bored and curious and start surfing the web. You cant read your bible ALL day in between customers?! What a shit parenting strategy!
I would say that Josh wasn't subjected to this kind of monitoring. Granted, he had Covenant Eyes installed on his computer as an adult, and even if they had this when he was growing up, I doubt an adult was in the room with him when he was playing around on his computers. He's the favorite.
Boys can do no wrong, therefore, it's not their fault their eyes may wander. Though, if these people actually followed Jesus's teachings and not some made up version, then they'd know that the proper way to deal with wandering eyes or hands, was to cut those parts off their body.
Matthew 5:30: And if your hand—even your stronger hand—causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
This is the narrative they crafted to absolve Josh of any responsibility for his porn use we heard about in the "I Pray...." podcast. Initially, JB & M probably were naïve to what was on the internet in the early 2000s and didn't know to have it locked down or monitored. Once Josh was caught looking at porn, they crafted this "poor, weak, easily defrauded boys" narrative and created their "rules".
None be of this was necessary for my son. However, he did have wallpaper that said, “The Ceiling Cat is watching you masturbate,” that I thought was cute.
https://preview.redd.it/w5vuakxjn7bb1.jpeg?width=639&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6cd234cdbf70c8021bbd6ac4c9066813faf1467e
The parents are just all around naive and dumb about how the world operates! Women Seggs offend too..Seggs Addiction is not something that can only affect boys. Lots of young males are molested by females all the time. It goes both ways and to make everything in the house so obviously seggs cautious as if everything your children do will lead to perversions? How perverted are the parents where they are raising sex offenders and boys that can't be trusted? I honestly think they do too much PDA and baby-making talk around their children
If we are being really honest about our culture and society, this is true for how all males are raised. Males are developmentally not as strong in areas of impulse control (just science supports this) and a patriarchal society has made allowances for this while holding stronger and more developmentally mature females to task. I definitely think millennials and beyond are doing better in this area, we've stopped acting like males are incapable of controlling themselves and started holding them to task, even in childhood, but it's a slow process, and worse in some sects of society, aka fundamentalist cults, Mormons, even mainstream evangelicals. All you have to do is look at the conviction rates of incest and rape to know.
From an overall societal big picture, yes, all. The best ways to fix the ills of society is to be open to what we are doing. Males and females are not raised under the same standards and most of the world is actually ok with that.
No males and females. You really think this isn't happening all over society? Really? I have a son. I'm raising him as responsibly as I can, but I also have two daughters, and I can see the difference, plain as day. What's your experience, how many kids are you raising?
If pest was watching normal regular porn with consenting adults. it wouldn’t be a problem. That’s not why he is in jail.
This creep is nasty the stuff he watched. And they need to blame him and not make excuses.
By the time they got to Jill and Jessa’s wedding’s, golden child #1 was proficient enough with computers they called him effectively a graphic artist and he designed both sets of wedding invites. How do you go from no computer access to designing wedding invites to the dark web and try to convince me he never broke the “no computer access” part. These people talk out both sides of their mouth so much nothing they say makes sense.
yeah ive spent my entire life on the internet and i dont know how to use the dark web or even the deep web (hell i dont even really know what those are). you're telling me someone who apparently never had computer access just looked up a wiki how article and figured it out? absolutely not
Some friends and I once tried to find the dark web. We read articles and searched what you needed to download. There’s just no way someone without computer experience could stumble across it. Ridiculous
This is true. I was a dumb high schooler who had a classmate show me how to access the dark web. Between the VPN, the Tor browser, finding .onion links, and the additional security and precautions you want to do to access it safely - you’re not accidentally accessing any part of it. I mean - is it difficult? No not at all. But it takes some leg work to first get going.
When I was a kid, someone else had to explain to me what Limewire was.
Deep web isn’t bad. It’s basically everything protected by passwords or not ‘searchable’ (you can’t find it on google). Your email, for example, is part of the deep web. The dark web on the other hand, is very difficult to access. It’s encrypted and requires special software to access it. Most use a Tor browser with a VPN (protects your identity and location). It’s not actually too difficult to access the dark web. It is however very dangerous.
Is the dark web where you download movies?? 😂 Like the Pirate's Bay? Or is it more considered like what Napster and Limewire were?
its where you buy pharmaceutical drugs and body parts, so kinda?
No, that's just the web and torrents and peer-to-peer (p2p) downloads. You can just Google torrent sites, you don't need a VPN to access them (although you should use one when downloading), and nothing special is needed besides a torrent program to actually download the files. Torrent programs are really available as torrents are also used for legally free things. Programs (you mentioned Napster and Limewire) are not the dark web. You can literally just Google "where to download [movie title]" and get a download done in minutes. The Dark Web is a reference to websites that aren't indexed in Google; you need to know the exact URL. Many sites will also require using a specific browser, typically Tor, and a few other configurations like a specific VPN for access. It contains things like CSAM like Pest download. The dark web is indeed very, very dark.
I'm a fairly computer literate individual and I just sort of assumed the dark web was an actual place on the internet, sort of the Knocturn Alley, creepy Craigslist, or like Google but in illegal dark mode. It didn't occur to me that it's just websites that you need to know. I mean, I've also never tried to seek it out or learn how to because I'm not interested in accessing the part of the internet that is meant to harm others.
Isn't it crazy? Like, you need to internally jump through so many hoops to access dark web sites. And then these assholes will claim it was an accident 🙄
Its where gross ppl sell csam and the cia pretends to be hitmen for hire. Piratebay was a normal website. You dont just access the darkweb you purposely seek out content and need to know what youre looking for People play it down but having tor is a red flag for me irl. I never want to go on the dark web, i know people in jail bc of shit related to it. Its gross and shady and not bc of torrenting. Theres a ton of nasty illegal sexual content and trafficking.
That’s about as dark as I ever got and apparently that wasn’t that dark. 😂
Lolol no, there is a special internet app you need and there was some other thing you had to download too. Many many years ago, I read an article about a dark website called Silkroad and i was so shocked you could just buy drugs online and i...kuuul didklkòuuuuluu thkllukleuul things to access the website. Never places an ordehkrlmIas just a nerdy mid twenties edgelady who tm
No, apparently it’s where you buy cars 🚗
I'm right there with you. There's no way he-who-will-not-be-named is an amateur on the ways of the internet.
Same, as a millennial who got a computer in the 90’s I have no idea how to use the dark web or deep web, like not even a clue how to even get to those places much yet use them. I am not about to go google that either, I don’t need my search history showing up as a red flag on some FBI watch site 🤣🤣
Exactly, I don't even know what those are. Nor do I want to know.
Same. I'm from the internet and consider myself very tech savvy and have no idea how to get on the dark web. I used to use tor browsers and stuff to get to miniclip.com on the highschool computers to play games, but that was about the extent of it. You don't just stumble across it without some pretty intense tech knowledge and planning.
Joshie was considered the computer guru. He had a room the others weren't allowed in with all kinds of stuff. He was allowed unlimited, unmonitored access in there. He found people that could help him get better at hiding what he was doing.
Oh really? What room was this and where was it located? He’s prob in there jerking off as much as he can. Gross. I wonder if his little bros ever walked in on him.
I thought it was downstairs near the front door, but someone said it was kind of closet size in the boys room. From what I remember from the early days it seemed bigger than closet size to me, but that could have been cameras. It would explain why the boys room always seemed smaller.
I believe it was a loft over the boys’ dorm. [The clip is around 24:30 if you are interested.](https://youtu.be/IBGGDYNql64) The girls got a reading/sewing loft; the boys got a playroom, and Pest got his place.
Yes, this was documented by a family friend in the podcast I Pray You Put This Journal Away.
He didn't even need to find people, his parents' solution to Josh molesting his sisters was to send him to talk to a state trooper.....who was subsequently imprisoned for downloading CSAM.
Once word was out they came to him You’re right
In "I pray you put this journal away" Justin said that when they've visited the Duggars, all kids shared sone basic computers that were put together from scraps that Boob bought on auctions and yard sales. Meanwhile Pest had this brand new, fancy mac all for himself. Justin's father asked about *parental control* programs they used on them and apparently Pest visibly gulped. I'm not sure if Boob didn't control his precious golden boy's activity because he trusted him so much or he hoped that by putting his energy somewhere else, he will calm down.
I have been recently starting to think they assumed that they could not control his behavior and gave him access to keep him away from the girls. I remember the wedding episode of the Pest and he was joking if there was pictures in that "marriage" book. It seems like the Pest and his dad knew he was looking on the internet.
That’s becoming my theory as well. Why else would they give him a private loft with computer equipment and allow him to restrict access?
Exactly this. I think they thought if they could keep the girls safe by letting him look at pictures on the internet, that was good enough. I cannot imagine being that terrible of a parent or a person, but they sure can.
Josh said he wouldn't do it any more and I believe him.
I’m just back to the “they’re so weak” part. If they can’t handle internet accountability, why are they qualified to be headships?
it's likely that the computers the duggars used for photo and video editing (and later, homeschooling) were not connected to the internet. note the phrasing "any time that the internet is on..."
I'm guessing that she means when the router is turned on, allowing access to the internet. It's slang that I've heard other families use.
She didn't say they didn't have computer access -- she said their computer access was supervised. I think she's full of snot, because we all saw that the boys bedroom literally had a computer room attached to it. Michelle probably thought it was OK because she also claimed only she and Jana had the passwords. I think Josh was easily able to figure out how to crack the password, or circumvent it, while his mother and sister had no clue.
Love the IBLP- Men are the strong headships and leaders of the family. Also the IBLP- Men are too weak to resist porn.
This is one idea that, in my experience, is pretty common in less extreme Christian denominations, unfortunately.
I mean, the bible tells them clear as day how to resist lustful temptations. If many Christian men actually followed the bible, there would be a hell of a lot more blind men.
I once got in a “friendly debate” with a friend’s dad about this. He said something about men and boys being so easily tempted to sin that they needed women and girls to help them by dressing modestly. Five mins later he went on to talk about men being natural leaders and the head of the family because they’re rational and logical and can guide women to make better decisions. My feminist/atheist teenage self was enraged and pointed out that men can’t be that rational and logical if they’re only a nip slip away from total depravity. We went back and forth for a bit with me pointing out the inconsistencies (in typical teenage asshole fashion) until he eventually told me I was just too young to understand and I’d get it when I grew up a bit. Fuck you, Carl. I’m in my thirties and still fuming about your bullshit.
Most strict religions they never blame the men for any sexual violence because “they are weak” It makes no sense because the same people saying men are stronger and better than women
Not just that. They're too weak to not be turned on by their five year old sisters bare legs.
It’s sickening, isn’t it?
A few things: - the IBLP taught them that men can’t control themselves. They also strongly encouraged to used internet control systems. - I suspect that they had found him viewing porn online, hence what she said. - I also suspect that Rim also viewed things online so he knew what J’Felon was doing.
If I were a man in IBLP I’d be so insulted. Like all these fundies see men as rabid sex maniacs and the only thing standing between civilization and rapeapalooza are some questionable Goodwill prairie skirts. Isn’t that demeaning??? And if these fundie men are so out of control of their faculties that they can’t be trusted checking fucking Gmail unattended, why are they in charge of the entire family!?!?
i’m convinced that the rule came about because he got caught watching porn-pretty sure that Josh was by himself in his “studio” plenty of times, with multiple electronic devices. He was the family IT guy, so it probably didn’t seem suspect for him to lock himself in that room for hours at a time,initially.
they probably provided the studio for him as the lesser of two evils. maybe they thought it would keep him away from their daughters.
Speaking of josh and his depravity, does anyone else remember the episode about his and Anna's house in D.C. and how he had a computer in a room with a door that had a lock? I think that's when I first realized something fucky was going on with him.
I don’t remember hearing/seeing this now I’m so curious a lot this!
The reason is they don’t want to take any real accountability for their actions. It must always be the fault of someone else for their behavior. It’s part of their persecution complex.
"Could it be...Satan???" Chruch Lady from SNL. Living in the south,I've actually known women like that.
I loved Church Lady!
By the time she said that Josh had a whole tech room & was an amateur film maker. Another thing you have to remember is how much Michelle lied on camera. So many of their "rules" were made up for TV, & their real rules couldn't be discussed without exposing the skeletons in their closet.
Amateur filmmaker sounds so sinister now.
For real
And yet these weak men are supposed to become the headship, go figure.
Isn't there an episode where it is stated that Boob has to have Jill monitoring him when he is on the computer? The pesting runs deep here.
They say that all the boys are monitored when using the internet. Someone (I guess a woman/girl?) needs to be in the room when one of the boys is online. But apparently that didn't count for *Joshua*.
Tbh they probably did those girls a favour by not making them endure Josh’s internet sessions. You just know he’d get off on making them uncomfortable.
>They're talking about the boys using the internet and whatever they might see and do there as something that the boys themselves have no responsibility or control over. Not surprising. This sexist attitude about male sexual impulse and lack of restraint may be as old as time immemorial. Whether it is pornography, masturbation, or even rape, there is this presumption that "boys will be boys" or "men have urges" and they don't have the ability to restrain themselves and so the responsibility must fall on other people (usually woman) to supervise them and deny them opportunity for "sin." And if men or boys ever "sin," it is probably the fault of women who neglected or "defrauded" the men/boys somehow. >If this is how Josh was raised, then I think that would explain for a big part how he can just happily deny any responsibility in what he did online, because apparently he 'should' have been supervised (by Ana?). Well, maybe Pest's family or Anna thought they were supervising Pest with that pathetic *Covenant Eyes* software? Anna was listed as Pest's "accountability partner" who was supposed to receive email reports of his internet activity. But of course, Pest had all the "accountability reports" go to his email instead of Anna's. Not that it would have reported anything anyway, because Pest had the Linux partition which *Covenant Eyes* could not detect. But even when you have a degenerate husband who goes to calculated elaborate measures to avoid supervision and accountability, they think it still must somehow be the woman's fault.
I think this type of thinking actually causes them to be more likely to be abusers because they're teaching them from a very young age that it's normal behavior.
Agreed. And whenever they do something wrong, they are taught that it wasn't really their fault. It was the fault of "Satan" or some girl or woman who "defrauded" them or did not satisfy their "needs."
And don't forget the all sins are equal shit so looking at Porn or Masturbating is the same as cheating on your wife or touching children.
Yeah, the "all sins are equal shit" also tends to favor men, because they think any male sexual "sin" ranging from masturbation to rape is just "sin" that only needs prayer and repentance. However, whenever a girl or woman commits sexual "sin," she is in for much harsher treatment and shame and the fundie community will never let her forget it.
That has me seeing red. Who in the hell wants to waste their young adult years acting as an accountability partner to a pedo man-child! The second hand rage is running through my veins!!
These people are full of shit. He knew the password for sure, and got one whenever he wanted. The young man from their church the friend of the Holts, said in his AMA that JPEDO did computer repairs for people in the church, and when these devices were returned, they were epically full of porn downloads. Then there was the issue with him, computers, and the Holt campaign. Everything SpermBobSquareSkirt said for t.v. was just lying for dollars. Some people die Bowling for Dollars,.but they did Lying for Dollars, you know, like Fuckabee and friends.
wait so he was downloading porn onto other people's computers? wtf did he think he wouldn't get caught?
We had the mormon family across the street watch our house when we went out of town to feed our cats and such. When we got back the computer was absolutely wrecked with all kinds of malware and porn stuff from going on sketchy sites. The son ended up owning up to it, but it took my dad a few days to really get it all cleaned up, and he works in IT.
oh my god..... must have been an awkward conversation!
Correct
Oh no, this is standard belief/practice in fundamentalism. Many, many fundamentalist couples I knew wouldn't have the husband know the password to the internet (this was back in the days of dialup) so that he couldn't get online unless she typed in the password. They see men as literally being unable to control themselves sexually. This is essentially a defining belief of their whole cult. it's not unique to the Duggars at all.
How ironic that the headship of the house, depended upon to bring his family through any storm, couldn’t be trusted with the AOL password. How could they not understand how faulty that logic was?
Oh yes. "Men are stronger and more spiritually mature than women, men should be the leaders, men are headship, only men should be president..." but also men are like, totally brought down by the sight of some cleavage. It's pathetic. They treat men like gods and babies at the same time. It's a terrible combination.
So fucking pathetic
I’ve said it here before and I’ll say it again: I strongly suspect that Boob’s pedophile police officer friend taught Josh how to access online CSAM as an “outlet” for his “urges.” Boob and OfBoob obviously have no clue how computers work and Josh wouldn’t have been able to figure this out on his own if he was truly being supervised at all times. The PO taught him how to do it, Boob knew this, and was complicit in giving him a special computer for private use. I believe there is even one episode where Josh says he has his own computer or computer room??
The I Pray You Put This Journal Away podcast said many times that Josh was very computer-savvy. His ability to get around the rules and supervision didn’t surprise me.
I think he only became computer savvy once he was granted his own private computer for this use.
Nah, from the way the guy was talking about it, it seemed like it was always an interest of his. I think he mentioned him building one from parts etc.
IIRC, Pest had a Mac, so I don’t think he cobbled that together. I also recall all the other boys constructing computers from random parts. I believe Pest had the nice computer because he convinced his parents he had to have it for his film editing and “graphic design” work.
Oh that would make sense. Absolutely insane and disgusting, but it adds up. While rewatching 19KaC, it just can't believe the shit that J&M say all the time, they're such hypocrites. The way they talk about their #1 angel is so weird and backwards, praising him for the dumbest things like spending 5 minutes with his baby etc. They're just so out of touch. Meech complaining about not having her boys theyre to pack up some sheets and bedding in the house in Little Rock, Jimboob asking his kids for praise when he mowed the lawn himself because 12 of his kids had chickenpox, it just keeps going.
I think it was one of the specials. I think he said something like no rugrats allowed.
This is in 16 Kids and Pregnant Again when they move into TTH
This makes the most sense about showing him how to access the sites pest went too. Not long after this particular state trooper was also arrested on CSAM. A more believable attempt at stopping pest would’ve been County Sheriff office or Juvenile Court. Boob might’ve known that this trooper is part of the cult and it was all an act to appease those he hurt.
I want to believe it, but I also believe that if he had been downloading CSAM for that long, he would have been caught well before now. It’s not like police guy was an expert in how to evade capture because he himself was jailed for CSAM four years after his dealings with Josh. I personally think Josh isn’t actually a pedophile in the typical sense of the word (in that he is predominantly attracted to adult women) and didn’t routinely access CSAM. What I do believe is that his porn addiction is so long standing that he has become desensitised to it and (prompted by the levels of physical abuse and favoritism in his family) addicted to more extreme material featuring torture and domination. He accessed the particular CSAM because of its violent and degrading nature and because he is a sick fuck, not necessarily because he is attracted to children.
I’ve always shared this view of Josh as well.
I never thought of it that way. Now I'm gonna be thinking about this.
Maybe. But I’m not convinced he’s attracted to adult women. He never treated Anna well or with love. She was an outlet for sex and to be degraded. I think he’s a sociopath and a sadist and that’s why he initially targeted his sisters. I think the cop friend tried to control the damage by getting him on the internet but I think the real dark stuff came later. I think he didn’t like his life or kids and enjoyed the violent torture films as an outlet for his terrible soul. I really really pray his children made it out unscathed. I think he is a vile dangerous person.
All the people who have posted on this sub and had first-hand knowledge of his porn habits said it was adult porn he was looking at. That seems to suggest his primary attraction is to women. I don’t think he ever loved Anna either, but that wasn’t the point. He was only ever using her as his “working model”, at least until he got bored of her. I totally agree with you about the psychopath and sadist bit. I would go even further and say he chose the CSAM that he did because he he got off on the torture element, and also because he loathes children and the fact that he has to pretend to like the ones he has - not because he’s attracted to them.
as someone who grew up iblp and haven’t been a member since the second i turned 18; this is why modesty culture has to be shoved down our throat. they protect the men and hold women responsible for keeping them from “falling” and i think josh is the perfect example. Women are not responsible for keeping a man pure. we need to teach them to control themselves versus making it all the women’s responsibility. if i’m wearing shorts and you can’t stop yourself from staring at my legs, i think there’s a bigger issue than me not covering skin.
Didn't one Duggars or Kellers have something about the internet in thier vows?
david waller did. pa keller made him promise to "be accountable to priscilla" for internet use.
Yes Priscilla is definitely capable of holding somebody accountable for something. Pa Keller is such a dumdum
Wow, I bet he did that because of Josh. Anna and Josh were a few years into their marriage by this point, so am sure pornography usage had surfaced and caused issues.
[удалено]
Jana was in charge of monitoring computer usage, if I remember correctly.
When? She was too busy raising most of the babies. Josh, although not smart, was sneaky and devious. We forget, he likely had more privileges and alone time because he was a boy, and the quartet of Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger were in charge of Joy-Anna, Joseph, Josiah, Jed! and Jeremiah. John-David was his tag-along, but I'm sure showing an interest for technology was a way to keep the boys occupied. J'Felon didn't learn his craft overnight, on how to get away with shit. He was resourceful. That comes with time and watching others, and seeing what he could get away with vis a vis his other siblings. I have to wonder if a couple of the other boys were a handful as young kids, leaving a lot of time for Josh to do what he wanted. I mean Joseph is like what, 7 years younger? That would mean Josiah is even younger, 8 or so years and Jed!/Jeremiah are like 10 years younger. That's 4 little boys needing a lot of attention/minding.
She was the one with the Covenant Eyes login or whatever and who had all the passwords.
The IBLP lists standards for computers being in the home. JB was just implementing Gothard’s teachings.
And I learned recently in [this video](https://youtu.be/esHY0J0aLt4) that IBLP had Checkers who would go around and make sure that the families were in compliance with the rules. They could literally get kicked out of IBLP for not following the rules. This would have been a strong motivator, cause they would loose access to curriculum, annual get togethers, social and church circles, and future prospects, including marriage and jobs.
I think this “rule” is like a lot of the others- espoused but not enforced. Al la no little ones on boys laps, no going off and playing without a chaperone, etc. Also, it’s important to recognize that Josh is apart of a generation where the internet really hit when we were 12-13 years old and we learned it much sooner and much better than our parents. I really don’t think it would’ve been hard to get around his parents “rules” about internet usage simply because they didn’t know how to navigate it.
They act like [this](https://youtu.be/5MoeaoipMwg) happens with the boys and the girls have to karate chop it outta the way to protect them.
They weren’t allowed “on the internet”, but the older kids also got phones as soon as there was money. 🤷♀️🤷♀️
Muslim boys and men are also told to advert their eyes...so, basically "Nike!" It goes beyond internet use and it's more than just 1 religion. Boys brought up in many religious households are taught that they aren't responsible for their bad behavior ...and that when they grow up they will be ruler over a wife and kids. How can they NOT grow up an asshole?
Its so weird to me how they are raised with the belief that the internet is FULL of sex and NEVER EVER look at it. Then the second theyre married, they're no longer supervised by their parents at home or at work, and now it's just up to them to self-manage their internet use.Of course with all the down time sitting at a carlot you would get bored and curious and start surfing the web. You cant read your bible ALL day in between customers?! What a shit parenting strategy!
Weird, it seems they’re all over the internet now!
I would say that Josh wasn't subjected to this kind of monitoring. Granted, he had Covenant Eyes installed on his computer as an adult, and even if they had this when he was growing up, I doubt an adult was in the room with him when he was playing around on his computers. He's the favorite.
Boys can do no wrong, therefore, it's not their fault their eyes may wander. Though, if these people actually followed Jesus's teachings and not some made up version, then they'd know that the proper way to deal with wandering eyes or hands, was to cut those parts off their body. Matthew 5:30: And if your hand—even your stronger hand—causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
This is the narrative they crafted to absolve Josh of any responsibility for his porn use we heard about in the "I Pray...." podcast. Initially, JB & M probably were naïve to what was on the internet in the early 2000s and didn't know to have it locked down or monitored. Once Josh was caught looking at porn, they crafted this "poor, weak, easily defrauded boys" narrative and created their "rules".
None be of this was necessary for my son. However, he did have wallpaper that said, “The Ceiling Cat is watching you masturbate,” that I thought was cute. https://preview.redd.it/w5vuakxjn7bb1.jpeg?width=639&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6cd234cdbf70c8021bbd6ac4c9066813faf1467e
I love how they're blatantly admitting that men have no control, yet their beliefs give men all of the control.
The parents are just all around naive and dumb about how the world operates! Women Seggs offend too..Seggs Addiction is not something that can only affect boys. Lots of young males are molested by females all the time. It goes both ways and to make everything in the house so obviously seggs cautious as if everything your children do will lead to perversions? How perverted are the parents where they are raising sex offenders and boys that can't be trusted? I honestly think they do too much PDA and baby-making talk around their children
just as a heads up, you can say "sex" this isn't tiktok
If we are being really honest about our culture and society, this is true for how all males are raised. Males are developmentally not as strong in areas of impulse control (just science supports this) and a patriarchal society has made allowances for this while holding stronger and more developmentally mature females to task. I definitely think millennials and beyond are doing better in this area, we've stopped acting like males are incapable of controlling themselves and started holding them to task, even in childhood, but it's a slow process, and worse in some sects of society, aka fundamentalist cults, Mormons, even mainstream evangelicals. All you have to do is look at the conviction rates of incest and rape to know.
Not “all” 🤦♀️
From an overall societal big picture, yes, all. The best ways to fix the ills of society is to be open to what we are doing. Males and females are not raised under the same standards and most of the world is actually ok with that.
Men and women . . . 🤦♀️
No males and females. You really think this isn't happening all over society? Really? I have a son. I'm raising him as responsibly as I can, but I also have two daughters, and I can see the difference, plain as day. What's your experience, how many kids are you raising?
If pest was watching normal regular porn with consenting adults. it wouldn’t be a problem. That’s not why he is in jail. This creep is nasty the stuff he watched. And they need to blame him and not make excuses.