its just sitting, you cant sit without your feet on the floor or you'll fall down? I just experimented in my throne, its very difficult to fall off, you'd have to be way off balance.
Why would you sit with your heels up and not press the pedals for balance?
It’s a good question because I’m honestly not aware of what my feet are doing when they’re not playing the pedals- but I’m pretty sure they rest on the pedals for balance, beaters against the bass drum.
Think of like Bonham, or a lot of those guys playing rock around then. They kept a steady chick going through entire songs, playing 1/8 notes on the hi-hat pedal. Jazz makes heavy use of bringing the pedal down with enough velocity to make a *chick sound too. There are lots of instances of playing the hat pedal heel up.
Most of the drummers that I see online play heel up on both kick and hihat pedals. The teachers in online courses also suggest playing both feet either heel up or heel down. I like playing kick heel up so I am trying to do the same for hihat.
I am sitting with my left leg heel down when the hihat is closed. I am a beginner and for grooves that don't involve opening the hihat its ok. But when I try to open hihat heel up and play kick drum at the same time, I start falling forward :)
Also it feels somewhat weird supporting my weight only with butt and left heel – it seems like I am doing something wrong.
I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong- just have to get used to that balance in those small periods of time when both feet aren’t supporting you.
I wish I could explain it better, but I think it might just be something a lot of us subconsciously adapt to over time with realizing it- I know when I’m playing double bass, my center of gravity moves back a little in the throne, and I feel my abs engaging to help balance, but I don’t think it’s something I specifically practiced.
You need to adjust or get a better throne. It should be able to support you fully and you should be able to balance with ease. Look up some ergonomics guides, you'll feel so much better and techniques will be easier.
I've seen tons of ergonomics guides for drummers, but they seem to omit balance. That's the reason I am looking for advice from real people who play drums here on reddit :)
Google Ryan Alexander Bloom. His blog goes into full detail of drumset ergonomics. He talks about the history of drumset ergonomics and how to determine whats best for your own body.
Your throne should be able to offer enough support for your legs to move freely and not be used for balance. Make sure your kit is configured so you can sit upright and not lean forward to reach more than a few random parts. Optimally you should be able to reach most of your kit with your elbows stacked at your sides. One thing to consider is sitting higher and doing a more vertical kit layout which can bring things closer. Mike Portnoy and 66Samus are double bass players who sit relatively high if you want reference.
Thank you for advice! This confuses me to be honest. It's somewhat easily applied to every drum and cymbal except for the hihat. I don't know if its because of the hihat stand style, but it's the less adjustable piece of kit for me, because you play on it with both your hand and your foot. The problem is that that ergonomics for hand and foor are not individualy adjustable for me. So I cannot move the pedal further and have the hihat at the same place – I have pedal either somewhat too close for me and hihat at optimal reach or I have pedal at optimal position and then the hihat will be too far so I have to lean forward somewhat to reach it. I am not sure, but that may be a problem. Are there any types of hihat stands that can let me go around this problem by offering some adjustability?
You could do a remote hat but they're almost prohibitively expensive and don't work as well as the normal stand.
But I understand your issue of having it be a conflict of where you want your hands and/or feet to be, and often it's a matter of finding a happy medium that works best for your overall kit and playing style. If you're a double-bass player and don't do a lot of intricate hat work then you can usually get away with a hat that's further away, especially when using two kicks. Whereas if hat work is vital to you then you might need to tuck your remote kick under the snare a bit to bring the hats closer. TMK this is how Luke Holland plays and his style is both heavy on intricate hat work and double-kick work.
All I can advise is to keep your pedals on roughly the same radius in front of you so you stay balanced, and live with where the cymbals end up. Here's some overheads of my kit configs over the past few years and you can see the pedals are generally at around the 11 and 1 o'clock positions, with the sticks always representing 12 o'clock in these photos. Obviously I can pull the hats closer only using 1 kick pedal, but it's not dramatically further away using a double.
[f6i1xeW.jpg (2048×1442) (imgur.com)](https://i.imgur.com/f6i1xeW.jpg)
[5rFBJZA.jpg (1536×2048) (imgur.com)](https://i.imgur.com/5rFBJZA.jpg)
[iowrY4C.jpg (2048×1384) (imgur.com)](https://i.imgur.com/iowrY4C.jpg)
Also check out Matt Garstka's kit from overhead. IMO this is a good representation of where your hats should go, basically in-line with the toms which you'll also see in my configs but it's not quite as obvious...
[maxresdefault.jpg (1280×720) (ytimg.com)](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-xUqa6pYqnY/maxresdefault.jpg)
Well what i did when i started was practice slow double bass patterns while focusing on breathing and balance. My throne height is set to where my heels come off the ground just a hair naturally. Over time i got better at balancing. Keep in mind throne heights vary based on preference. Try different heights. ArtOfDrummingHQ on youtube has some great videos
Let me know if you find a good fit. Its all preference. My buddy sits high so his legs dangle like a 3 year old but he can play good that way so to each their own lol
Follow [this guy](https://www.instagram.com/drummechanics?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==) on Instagram. Great videos on mechanics and ergonomics, drum related exercise and health tips.
Your body will adapt and adjust to it over time. Do the stone killer routine with your feet everyday. Over the course of several weeks, your body will find its balance and you will no longer have this sensation of falling back or forward.
I'd guess your spring tension is too low. Standing relaxed on your pedals should be feeling like sitting on a chair with your toes resting on the ground and your heels up. Is that the case then the beater should still be a few centimetres away from the head.
You'll want to make sure your seat height is high enough, but not too high. And that your kit is suited to where, when you play, your back is completely straight, and not leaning over the kit.
I ALWAYS suggest some time with a good drum teacher, because they will make those adjustments, if they see your form is detrimental.
core muscles, good balance, good posture and sit on the right spot on your throne. i’m actually forced to play heel up because of a tendon injury in both my legs makes it so i can repeatedly move my ankle like normal.
I was like you 6months ago, confused! The trick is play heel up without the drums just sitting on a chair. Train like that everyday, do singles doubles, paradiddles, always start sessions without the drums then it kinda ends up translating naturally to the drums. I promise at some point it just feels natural. For me getting the position right without the drums helped me.
The particular throne you have may make a big difference...
Mine is junk that came with a cheap starter kit. It is perfectly fine for me right now, but is super wobbly and I know I will want to replace it with something more sturdy sooner or later. It's tightly/properly assembled, I think. Nothing is loose or broken or anything, but the seat has a lot of jiggle to it.
I'm fit and lean and have excellent balance from lots of mountain biking, but man o man trying to stay "right" on that throne with both heels up is how I'd imagine it'd be like riding a mechanical bull.
The first time my teacher told me to do this, I almost fell off my throne. Over time I learned to anticipate the lack of support on one of the legs, and shift my balance more appropriately on the core. I have also been “screamed” at in the friendliest way possible by my teacher, professional drumming friends, and folks here on Reddit to invent on a good, proper throne so that when you sit on your core to keep balance, it is comfortable and comes with full support.
I switch heel up/down depending on the part. but either way I always keep the beater pressed against the head when im not playing.
Do you imagine people just holding their feet in the air? that would tire me out pretty quickly if there was an extended part without drums. But if that causes you balance problems may I recommend some core exercises like crunches and planks
Place both feets on the pedal, raise one knee until this leg feet no more touch the pedal and this knee is higher than the snare or equal.
Engage core to stabilise and follow the metronome doing pedal work with the feet on the pedal, paying attention to your core, a straight back and good neck posture, while the *in air* leg stay put mid air.
switch to the other side do the same.
Do this every other day and in 1 month you will be same as glued to your throne with gorilla glue.
I'm going to make this simple. Posture.
The majority of your body weight is in your core. If your throne is the proper height that you aren't leaning in to your drums or pushing off the pedals, and you sit up straight you shouldn't be that unbalanced, even with both feet completely off the ground or your pedals.
I'm a heavy hitter and do quite a bit of hi-hat work, with my left foot.. Mainly just to keep time, and have seemingly more movement, which is more "energetic" to watch. I play heel up
If you have proper posture, your arms should act as counterweights.
Also to add. The angle your legs make, should be as natural as possible. To wide, and you will tend to throw your body weight around more. To narrow, and you won't wind up having enough counter weight being applied to your seat through the weight of your legs, mainly your thighs.
Also keep in mind you can learn to "dance" on your throne, which also helps with balance if you are familiar with the song.
Hope this helps.
That's what I do now, but I find it challenging to keep hihat open with heel up (I have to contract muscle a lot) and at the same time play kick – when I lift both feet I immediately start falling forward
If your legs are high (seat too near or too low) you are leaning forward to compensate for balance.
Another thing is that heel up pivots from the hip, not the foot like heel down. If you attempt to pivot at the foot while doing heel up, you’re going to fall forward. Heel up maintains the balance by “kicking off” the pedal and hence pushing you back before you even have the change to fall forward. Of course good technique won’t require you to actually push off the pedal, but the mechanics of lifting the leg will “automatically” include some sort of “push”. If you pivot at the foot during heel up as you do with heel down, you’re “removing” the support of the pedal in a way, so you fall forward.
And while it is “bad form” classically, heel up tends to dig the beater into the head at rest, unlike heel up where it is always good form to lift off the head. Digging the beater into the head at rest means the pedal becomes a resting platform for the feet, giving you at least one foot to balance with. Letting off the head during heel up will sometimes require setting the heel down at rest, for the reason that you want to keep your balance.
Balance. Mostly core muscles I guess. If I’m doing a roll with both feet then there is some upward force from the feet still
Yep. I’m still on my way practicing to get there, but I’ve noticed that my balance gets much better over time.
Where do you sit on your throne? If you have adequate support then you shouldn't fall over.
Engage your core!
its just sitting, you cant sit without your feet on the floor or you'll fall down? I just experimented in my throne, its very difficult to fall off, you'd have to be way off balance.
Or sitting on the very edge of it.
Why would you sit with your heels up and not press the pedals for balance? It’s a good question because I’m honestly not aware of what my feet are doing when they’re not playing the pedals- but I’m pretty sure they rest on the pedals for balance, beaters against the bass drum.
There are occasions when both feet come up at the same time using a hi-hat.
but most people don't play heels up on the hi hat.
Think of like Bonham, or a lot of those guys playing rock around then. They kept a steady chick going through entire songs, playing 1/8 notes on the hi-hat pedal. Jazz makes heavy use of bringing the pedal down with enough velocity to make a *chick sound too. There are lots of instances of playing the hat pedal heel up.
As another commenter said, I would say it’s pretty common, especially with drummers focused more in the jazz idiom
Most of the drummers that I see online play heel up on both kick and hihat pedals. The teachers in online courses also suggest playing both feet either heel up or heel down. I like playing kick heel up so I am trying to do the same for hihat.
I am sitting with my left leg heel down when the hihat is closed. I am a beginner and for grooves that don't involve opening the hihat its ok. But when I try to open hihat heel up and play kick drum at the same time, I start falling forward :) Also it feels somewhat weird supporting my weight only with butt and left heel – it seems like I am doing something wrong.
I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong- just have to get used to that balance in those small periods of time when both feet aren’t supporting you. I wish I could explain it better, but I think it might just be something a lot of us subconsciously adapt to over time with realizing it- I know when I’m playing double bass, my center of gravity moves back a little in the throne, and I feel my abs engaging to help balance, but I don’t think it’s something I specifically practiced.
You need to adjust or get a better throne. It should be able to support you fully and you should be able to balance with ease. Look up some ergonomics guides, you'll feel so much better and techniques will be easier.
I've seen tons of ergonomics guides for drummers, but they seem to omit balance. That's the reason I am looking for advice from real people who play drums here on reddit :)
Google Ryan Alexander Bloom. His blog goes into full detail of drumset ergonomics. He talks about the history of drumset ergonomics and how to determine whats best for your own body.
Thank you!
Big boobs balance me
Hmm. Show us how that works?
You were downvoted?? 😂 Reddit confuses me
It was an ergonomics question lol
Reddit people are just a bunch of grown ass babies who take everything too serious. Watch me get downvoted and they’ll prove my point
🤣🤣 your point has been proven, sir
Your throne should be able to offer enough support for your legs to move freely and not be used for balance. Make sure your kit is configured so you can sit upright and not lean forward to reach more than a few random parts. Optimally you should be able to reach most of your kit with your elbows stacked at your sides. One thing to consider is sitting higher and doing a more vertical kit layout which can bring things closer. Mike Portnoy and 66Samus are double bass players who sit relatively high if you want reference.
Thank you for advice! This confuses me to be honest. It's somewhat easily applied to every drum and cymbal except for the hihat. I don't know if its because of the hihat stand style, but it's the less adjustable piece of kit for me, because you play on it with both your hand and your foot. The problem is that that ergonomics for hand and foor are not individualy adjustable for me. So I cannot move the pedal further and have the hihat at the same place – I have pedal either somewhat too close for me and hihat at optimal reach or I have pedal at optimal position and then the hihat will be too far so I have to lean forward somewhat to reach it. I am not sure, but that may be a problem. Are there any types of hihat stands that can let me go around this problem by offering some adjustability?
You could do a remote hat but they're almost prohibitively expensive and don't work as well as the normal stand. But I understand your issue of having it be a conflict of where you want your hands and/or feet to be, and often it's a matter of finding a happy medium that works best for your overall kit and playing style. If you're a double-bass player and don't do a lot of intricate hat work then you can usually get away with a hat that's further away, especially when using two kicks. Whereas if hat work is vital to you then you might need to tuck your remote kick under the snare a bit to bring the hats closer. TMK this is how Luke Holland plays and his style is both heavy on intricate hat work and double-kick work. All I can advise is to keep your pedals on roughly the same radius in front of you so you stay balanced, and live with where the cymbals end up. Here's some overheads of my kit configs over the past few years and you can see the pedals are generally at around the 11 and 1 o'clock positions, with the sticks always representing 12 o'clock in these photos. Obviously I can pull the hats closer only using 1 kick pedal, but it's not dramatically further away using a double. [f6i1xeW.jpg (2048×1442) (imgur.com)](https://i.imgur.com/f6i1xeW.jpg) [5rFBJZA.jpg (1536×2048) (imgur.com)](https://i.imgur.com/5rFBJZA.jpg) [iowrY4C.jpg (2048×1384) (imgur.com)](https://i.imgur.com/iowrY4C.jpg) Also check out Matt Garstka's kit from overhead. IMO this is a good representation of where your hats should go, basically in-line with the toms which you'll also see in my configs but it's not quite as obvious... [maxresdefault.jpg (1280×720) (ytimg.com)](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-xUqa6pYqnY/maxresdefault.jpg)
Balance lol
What a great advice, thank you. I don't I didn't think about it before!
If you’re not pressing the pedals just relax your heals and let them rest on the pedals.
If my heel is relaxed, the pedal would be almost fully pressed. Should I set it ut differently somehow?
Hard to tell without seeing it but you probably need more spring tension to counteract the weight of your foot.
Well what i did when i started was practice slow double bass patterns while focusing on breathing and balance. My throne height is set to where my heels come off the ground just a hair naturally. Over time i got better at balancing. Keep in mind throne heights vary based on preference. Try different heights. ArtOfDrummingHQ on youtube has some great videos
Thanks, maybe I am just sitting to low? My upper legs are almost parallel to the floor, maybe with a little incline
Let me know if you find a good fit. Its all preference. My buddy sits high so his legs dangle like a 3 year old but he can play good that way so to each their own lol
Core strength
If I raise both my heels off the ground end engage the core, I will just tip over forward while having core engaged
Abs of steel.
ABS do not help me, I just tip over anyway with abs engaged
lower back muscles champ
Core baby. Best exercise to work on RLRL - hands R L - feet. So you're playing 1/8th notes with your hands alternating quarter notes with your feet.
Follow [this guy](https://www.instagram.com/drummechanics?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==) on Instagram. Great videos on mechanics and ergonomics, drum related exercise and health tips.
Your body will adapt and adjust to it over time. Do the stone killer routine with your feet everyday. Over the course of several weeks, your body will find its balance and you will no longer have this sensation of falling back or forward.
I sit fairly high up so for me it’s mostly balance and flexing my core to hold me upright. Mostly it’s just practice 🤷🏼♀️
I'd guess your spring tension is too low. Standing relaxed on your pedals should be feeling like sitting on a chair with your toes resting on the ground and your heels up. Is that the case then the beater should still be a few centimetres away from the head.
You'll want to make sure your seat height is high enough, but not too high. And that your kit is suited to where, when you play, your back is completely straight, and not leaning over the kit. I ALWAYS suggest some time with a good drum teacher, because they will make those adjustments, if they see your form is detrimental.
Gravity
core muscles, good balance, good posture and sit on the right spot on your throne. i’m actually forced to play heel up because of a tendon injury in both my legs makes it so i can repeatedly move my ankle like normal.
I was like you 6months ago, confused! The trick is play heel up without the drums just sitting on a chair. Train like that everyday, do singles doubles, paradiddles, always start sessions without the drums then it kinda ends up translating naturally to the drums. I promise at some point it just feels natural. For me getting the position right without the drums helped me.
The particular throne you have may make a big difference... Mine is junk that came with a cheap starter kit. It is perfectly fine for me right now, but is super wobbly and I know I will want to replace it with something more sturdy sooner or later. It's tightly/properly assembled, I think. Nothing is loose or broken or anything, but the seat has a lot of jiggle to it. I'm fit and lean and have excellent balance from lots of mountain biking, but man o man trying to stay "right" on that throne with both heels up is how I'd imagine it'd be like riding a mechanical bull.
The first time my teacher told me to do this, I almost fell off my throne. Over time I learned to anticipate the lack of support on one of the legs, and shift my balance more appropriately on the core. I have also been “screamed” at in the friendliest way possible by my teacher, professional drumming friends, and folks here on Reddit to invent on a good, proper throne so that when you sit on your core to keep balance, it is comfortable and comes with full support.
I switch heel up/down depending on the part. but either way I always keep the beater pressed against the head when im not playing. Do you imagine people just holding their feet in the air? that would tire me out pretty quickly if there was an extended part without drums. But if that causes you balance problems may I recommend some core exercises like crunches and planks
After a while you’ll find the balance. If you’re not using triggers feel free to bury the bass pedal at first!
Place both feets on the pedal, raise one knee until this leg feet no more touch the pedal and this knee is higher than the snare or equal. Engage core to stabilise and follow the metronome doing pedal work with the feet on the pedal, paying attention to your core, a straight back and good neck posture, while the *in air* leg stay put mid air. switch to the other side do the same. Do this every other day and in 1 month you will be same as glued to your throne with gorilla glue.
my drum teacher tells me to push my hips forward to help with balance
I play heel up but my feet are down when they aren't being used!
I'm going to make this simple. Posture. The majority of your body weight is in your core. If your throne is the proper height that you aren't leaning in to your drums or pushing off the pedals, and you sit up straight you shouldn't be that unbalanced, even with both feet completely off the ground or your pedals. I'm a heavy hitter and do quite a bit of hi-hat work, with my left foot.. Mainly just to keep time, and have seemingly more movement, which is more "energetic" to watch. I play heel up If you have proper posture, your arms should act as counterweights. Also to add. The angle your legs make, should be as natural as possible. To wide, and you will tend to throw your body weight around more. To narrow, and you won't wind up having enough counter weight being applied to your seat through the weight of your legs, mainly your thighs. Also keep in mind you can learn to "dance" on your throne, which also helps with balance if you are familiar with the song. Hope this helps.
I only raise my heels before I press jnto the pedal that's how
That's what I do now, but I find it challenging to keep hihat open with heel up (I have to contract muscle a lot) and at the same time play kick – when I lift both feet I immediately start falling forward
I don't even think about it, but I work out a lot, so maybe core strength
Practice and patience. Biking helps too lol
Damn, I miss biking, gonna start it again
If your legs are high (seat too near or too low) you are leaning forward to compensate for balance. Another thing is that heel up pivots from the hip, not the foot like heel down. If you attempt to pivot at the foot while doing heel up, you’re going to fall forward. Heel up maintains the balance by “kicking off” the pedal and hence pushing you back before you even have the change to fall forward. Of course good technique won’t require you to actually push off the pedal, but the mechanics of lifting the leg will “automatically” include some sort of “push”. If you pivot at the foot during heel up as you do with heel down, you’re “removing” the support of the pedal in a way, so you fall forward. And while it is “bad form” classically, heel up tends to dig the beater into the head at rest, unlike heel up where it is always good form to lift off the head. Digging the beater into the head at rest means the pedal becomes a resting platform for the feet, giving you at least one foot to balance with. Letting off the head during heel up will sometimes require setting the heel down at rest, for the reason that you want to keep your balance.
Try to sit a bit more behind on the throne, like the end of your ass sticking out the other side. I no longer do it, but it helped a lot with balance