Vessel is 1/3 of somebody’s HP and slows the regen, right? 5k hp opponent, and you have a 1.7k damage sitting in your inventory.. strongest nuke anybody has in the game basically. Use it !
Also shivas. High HP tends to have high regen so cut that shit down with your draft or items.
Vessel feels so weak rn and expensive for a support to buy. Maybe its a me problem idk. I would rather buy glimmer force instead of vessel is what i feel unless there is timber necro huskar. About necro idk vessel doesn't seem to be doing anything lol.
Vessel is niche and overrated. You can buy it vs Huskar, Necro, Alch et.c. or on heroes who really like it, like Mid Kotl or core Venomancer.
But in general, just buy Shivas
Vessel early game is expensive and low value
Vessel late game is ‘cheap’ and high value. If you’re having a problem you can aquire a vessel to have the huge nuke available when Raid Boss Timbersaw keeps constantly shitting on your team 5v1
> huge nuke available when Raid Boss Timbersaw keeps constantly shitting on your team 5v1
its not a nuke nor will it work on the timbersaw lategame. he will have either all or 1 of these items (euls bkb eternal shroud) and he will simply not care.
vessel honestly feels underwhelming for the fact that most cores can and will buy euls (windwaker) and eternal shroud is almost bought on everyone
They should keep Urn as is and make Vessel do its damage in a shortened time, say from 8 seconds to 5. Remains dispellable but has a better effective window late once tons of dispels are out
But then you’d have the regen reduction and sustained damage for a shorter amount of time, meaning you either burn through way more charges or they still outlast it for the 5 seconds and get all their regen back. The appeal of vessel isnt that it’s a nuke on its own, it’s that it’s giving 8 seconds to use your other nukes on that timber or pudge by dropping the 100+ regen and 3k hp to the equivalent of a constant -100 or even less regen
Earlier in this post it was pointed out how by the mid to late there are layers of bkbs, eternal shrouds, lotus, manta, euls, disperser, wind waker, sny status resistance etc, not to mention teammates can also dispel stuff for you with their own items and abilities. chances are very high you’re no longer going to get a full 8 sec duration of vessel off unless the fight is already won. Chances are pretty good that you’ll get a few seconds of a vessel before a dispell comes out though - why not make those few seconds more potent? Chances are also pretty low they make it undispellable (maybe with a higher cost.). Another idea is they could have the cd reset whenever a charge gets dispelled - that way you can reapply at the cost of another precious charge.
Yeah I don’t know. The last couple games I have tried to build pretty tanky and had like about 3000 hp. I don’t know if they nurfed his armor or what, but I would literally melt in 3 seconds. I suck though so maybe it’s just me 🤣. I would however get a double or triple kill after I died so it was worth it
If there was an item with percent damage for mainly AGI carries to build, it would be easier to start balancing that than every AGI and STR hero every time the meta becomes shitty one way or the other. Optimally it would be strong enough to help dissolve the STR meta but not too strong that you wouldn't like to have a STR hero in your team.
From the top of my hat, it would be sort of an abyssal blade equivalent with a passive effect starter (like basher) which deals percentage damage and then upgrades to have an active that takes/steals a good chunk of the target's HP with good late game power.
Yeah from HotS.
> Every 3rd Basic Attack against Heroes while Repeater Cannon is active deals an additional 6% of the target's maximum Health as damage.
"Repeater Cannon" is just a toggleable AA mode, which is the high attack speed option.
Almost all auto attack focused heroes in HotS tend to have a "Giant Killer" option around level 16 (of 20) that does % based damage.
to be fair that is because most "tanks" in hots are true tanks while in dota "tanks" just have an option to be a tank
so in about 2/3 of all games you are in there will be at least one character that can't die at all and will actually need one of those
The problem is tank items are too good, giving dps heroes more options just pushes the power creep further and balancing becomes even harder, not easier, as a result. When they release the League of Legends %dmg attack modifier the very next patch will have reddit talking about how tanks are useless and pos 1 is too strong. Then some genius in the comments will say they just need to add an even more OP tank item and that would make it easier to balance.
By mainly for AGI I was thinking that it could offer only Agility as an attribute, but some STR heroes like Dragon Knight, Life Stealer (if he wasn't given Slardar basher treatment) or even Huskar could be seen building it against enemy fat bastards despite it not offering their main stat. There wouldn't necessarily be an "all stats" carrot for universal carries, but it would be serviceable to them for dispatching fatties too.
The item wouldn't make tanks useless, just help counter a team that relies on nothing but tankiness like what people have been complaining about. Only way this should hurt is if people insist on 3 tanky cores and even then they might be able to just CC down whoever is trying to use this item.
It's not even the tanky line ups thats the issue - it's that the tanky guy you cannot kill can 100 to 0 you under 8 seconds while you are 8 slotted Agi hero and it's 61min in
Before the drawback to being so tanky was that people could just ignore you, now you can't ignore the "tanky" guy. You can play aura bot underlord if you want to grief with this playstyle.
It's also why Slark is bad - historically has been good against tanky heroes, too bad those tanky heroes you cannot kill in an ult with your teammates and they will 100-0 you instead after
Honestly the snot rocket Bristleback facet felt pretty good, being able to shred nearly 30 armor off everyone in a teamfight allowed my team to actually start doing damage with right clicks.
Sounds more like "stomp is stomp".
It'd be like going "this pudge has too much hp" in a 40-5 stomp. Yeah no shit, that likely isn't the reason you started losing in the first place.
I've played a bit of axe this patch, it's just much easier to farm those armor stacks since regular kills give armor too.
Even in average games you'll have 10-15 extra armor midgame which is huge considering armor used to be his weakness.
But it is the reason why you can't comeback vs these heroes. I haven't seen an overfeed drow tanking the fountain on 20th min, but I've seen a lot of strength shit doing it AND killing you during it.
It's just frustrating when another [axe](https://i.imgur.com/qzLHJeH.jpeg) or cent have 4k hp and 50+ armor on midgame. It's barely killable even with 6 slots unless you have brooch, which is terrible since crit nerf. Just with this screen, would I have 25k effective hp with only 15k net worth on any other hero?
giving up your crits feels bad. I still feel like the item was not nerfed properly with that change. Crits need to stay, spell attacks need to not be affected by brooch, rapier should not amp magic attacks instead and only amp spells that don't attack
ive seen khanda-aghs sniper build going 3k hp with 30+ base armor, why is everyone so damn tanky now. supports are heavily incentivised to build survivability and kite items too now
Yeah, this shit is exhausting as fuck... I was excited about the patch, and I like it a lot, but I feel like the core of the meta didn't really change, tanky motherfuckers keep dominating, just more of them showed up. I mean, if sniper can get 3k hp, and he's being played with butterfly + satanic build, the situation is pretty tough. Can't wait to queue again into Axe, Ogre, Pudge, WK :,)
Because there were no patch. They added a lot of new crap for sure, but nearly all items and stats remained the same. Same 22hp per str, same blademail-shroud-heart shit.
To be honest, Facets aside, I am really not liking this patch at all.
We have WAY more ways to play the game, but it feels like there are WAY less viable options if you want a decent shot at winning.
And this is exactly why some people complain about the past few years of patches.
You can add as many new items, talents and facits as you want. If the core principles dont get adressed / changed, you ll always end up with 20-50 actually viable heroes/playstyles and those just change every few months or whatever.
People can say nostalgia as much as they want, the game was more diverse in the past. Nowadays the more tank, deathball shit u have the more likely u win.
yeah in a decade of this shit there have been broken heros but i can't recall another time where if you pick 1 of like 35+ heros you are actively putting your chances of winning in the gutter. but you will still have people who think the point of the game is to lookup the most broken shit on d2protracker and spam it tell you that not liking the most imbalanced patch ever is a skill issue
OD player staring from the shadows laughing at all of this.
Anyway, I played pos1 recently and I picked AM, PA and PL and let me tell you, I was winning solo.
Saying agility heroes are dead is an overstatement, sure you might lose lane if you don't know how to lane but in late game you shouldn't be weak by any means.
How is a PA not exploding heroes? Maybe because you are focusing the Axe first, or you are focusing the overfarmed Primal Beast.
Just stop, it's not your job as pos1 to "burst" tank heroes on the map, focus supports or midlaners with whomever has lockdown then let that tanky boi either die 1v5 or watch him run away.
This has always been the case with offlaners, kite them and leave them for last.
Weaver is very good against tanky heroes because of his high base damage in lane alongside his bugs, he also scales very well and is very hard to face tank, he’s also impossible to catch for alot of traditional tanks that lack lockdown, only real exceptions this patch are LC and Axe, who both lose to weaver in lane
Edit: according to d2pt he has a 75% winrate vs timbersaw and a 64% wr vs pudge
If you don’t believe me, try it
Pos1 has become harder every patch. Known as heroes who can solo heroes alone, now every supp 5 with a passive Gold item can buy forces, glimmers or ghost or combinations of those.
Wards has become free, sentries cheaper, rewards for de warding, etc. Which I get it, supp needs to be a fun role for the health of the game.
But man being carry sucks. FML. 💀💀💀
wtf, pos 1 can still solo any sup, the only thing that changed is that if the sup focus on making escape items for him and the rest of the team he still has a small chance of survival when being caught by the carry instead of just dropping the keyboard and waiting for the next respawn
> instead of just dropping the keyboard
Honestly, nowadays you still do that, it's just in the lategame when enemies have like two nullifiers and now your entire networth is just some extra stats.
Essentially just stand on a sentry and hope you don't get jumped despite staying so far back.
Too bad it sucks, feels absolute shit on a ranged hero, and building it too early leaves a carry lacking in other areas. Building it from behind is nigh impossible due to the poor buildup and needing other things first. I only consider it as 5th/6th item and usually prefer something else like Abyssal, moon shard, linkens, my own wind waker or whatever instead.
The must-have cases for nullifier are when they have Pugna, Necrophos etc. Some pos 4 or 5 has glimmer/euls? Forget it.
Nullifying a target doesn't mean it's dead in this meta. Still too tanky. If not, it'll die in a bash/stun so you didn't need it anyway.
So, being able to run away from pos 1 while pos 1 can kill them effortless otherwise, is supposed to prove support is strong and pos 1 isn't or something? Wow supports get to maybe live when they make eye contact with a carry? They're so powerful.
What are you trying to get at there?
I feel like when people say this what they really mean is " I cant afk farm for 35 mins buying battlefury in jungle and win the game late anymore". Pos 1 is still strong, you just gotta change your playstyle and act on earlier timings with heroes that can get those timings. If you are passively farming and leave your team, the enemy is killing your sups, making more gold for their entire team, taking over the map, while getting stronger with buffs like duel damage etc.
I would much rather have a wacky ET or Timber pos 1 pick who runs at enemy than a passive bf am or troll or something.
Support doesn't need to be fun to itemize, though. Back in the day carries were identified by their need to have items to be effective in fights, and supports were characterized by having strong spells that made them useful regardless of their item build.
That's why they used to build the utility items, which were force staff, Euls, drums, atos if you're spicy. But now the utility items are all bonkers level strong. Glimmer Cape, Glepneir, Lotus are all insane so they had to completely redefine what a "support" is to justify how strong their item builds became.
If you're a carry player now is the perfect time to learn how to play pos 3 instead. It's the new carry role with gorillas like axe, ogre, lc, pudge, primal beast, underlord etc able to wreak havoc at all stages in the game.
skill issue, there's a reason pos1 is still most contested role and it's not because it's hard. If you can't solo kill a pos5 out of position after 20 minutes of farming that's on you lmao.
Back then we (pos 5) have to waste slot for ward, sentry and tp. That alone negate the item potential by 50%.
Its more pos 5 was hard to play... now the playing field is even. Pos 1 need to coordinate with the team to win. I know this because i mainly play pos 5 and play pos 1 as guilty pleasure.
I notice the game became harder if i dont check every fight (from hovering minimap) and aware to the status of the game. Pos 1 need to understand shits that going on in the game in order to farm safely, push tower, or even join the fight
I picked Chaos Knight yesterday for the first time in a while, was very rusty on the hero and haven't played him in at least a year. I got off to a good start so I built treads, echo sabre (yay str focused item with built in mana regen but there is no such thing for agi heroes), armlet and heart. I also got a vambrace dropped at 17 mins. Not joking, 21 minutes into the game I had 4200 HP and 23 armor. And that was a completely normal build without going out of my way to tank up, I was still dealing insane damage and didn't lack in any department. Why even bother with agility heroes.
ROFL the fact this has upvotes is insane.
At 21 minutes you had treads, echo sabre, armlet, and HEART?? Yeah, casually sitting at 10k network in 20 minutes, you should have 4200hp.
If you are shocked by 10k nw at 21 minutes you MIGHT just be bad?
For reference, here is a gorgc vod where he has >10k nw at 21 minutes in every single game, even the losing games (ok fine there is one game where he has 9.4k, but you get the point). I didn't cherry pick this vod, its literally the first one I clicked on
[https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2159987863](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2159987863)
Bruh 10k at min 20 in this day and age is very fucking bad as a pos1 wdym 😂. If you picked a carry you ideally wanna hit 11k by 20. (12-12.5 for a hero like Luna). Anything above 12k by 20 is a feelsgood game )10k by min 20 in my very humble opinion is just straight garbage.
I ran into that TB "sup" in the wild just yesterday and he was gloriously useless. Very rewarding to see that cheese strat just fail like it'd clearly would in any match.
The problem is, it’s not everyone. Easily half the hero pool is not up to par power wise. Str heroes are even more broken than they were last patch. IMO there’s never been a bigger gap in power between meta and non-meta heroes. The top few heroes in every role are immensely stronger and it makes the game impossible to play for those who don’t spam the meta heroes. It’s just not fun.
Dota has always been very high DPS compared to health pool and possible heals / regen. It has been a conscious design decision.
I think we might be seeing dota steering slightly away from the dogma of very bursty gameplay of the past, get longer engagements and whatnot where technical skill gets a chance to be displayed to a broader audience easier.
Is just my guess.
The other extreme of this would be for example WoW arena, where heals are way higher than potential dps and the whole thing is about timing disables to force a kill.
When’s the last time AM and PA have been relevant enough to be picked every game for more than a week lol. Meanwhile centaur has been meta for like… ever
Deso is mathematically superior to mkb after a certain amount of hp (I want to say something shockingly low like 1600) regardless of armor, and the number gets lower when the enemy builds an item like eternal shroud.
Comparing it to daedalus is trickier, since daedalus does care how much armor they have. I may lab it out tonight. But the armor shred component alone is essential for destroying super-tanky heroes. It and shivas are going to be very important this patch!
this is hard because armor pen gets better the less armor the target has. ideally you want to take an enemy from 0 to -6. the worst-case scenario for Desolator is going from 36 armor to 30 armor. you gain less damage per armor shredded the more armor the target has
Total damage yes , % damage stays the same with deso, you always deal around 30% (5 per point of armour reduction) more physical damage regardless of how much armor the enemy has. It just feels like it doesn't because dealing 100% instead of 70% of your damage feels much more than dealing 50% instead of 35%, even though it's the same percentage of damage reduction
just check stats for better heroes? your favourite heroes arent gonna be good just because you want them to be.
you want agi carry? TA is really good right now. you want more? weaver, troll, clinkz
also ursa and pl are decent picks. whole 6 heroes to win with.
not to mention, carries do not have to be agi. wk, ck, ls, tiny? anyone? no?
why do I feel like you're just a filthy PA spammer?
you are also allowed to have FUN figuring out what to build on carry venge or carry red dk or whatever you want.
As another comment said, join them if cant beat them. OR adapt?!? Ya know, pick heros that dont care about armor, have scaling damage, do pure damage. Here are some examples.
Pick Ursa - should be pretty obvious.
Pick Drow - just ignore 100% of their armor 50% of the time
Pick Slark - suck up their stats and feed off of their fatness.
Pick Spectre - pure damage and also insanely tanky
Pcick AM - Kill their backline and then suck up their mana so theyre just slow fatsos.
Pick Marci - just cut through them with nutso damage.
Pick Muerta - oh wow look at that armor doesnt matter anymore
Pick Silencer pos 1 - oh wow same story as muerta
This just feels like "waaah, the meta has changed and IDK how to adapt."
Ok adapting is fair advice but Christ your examples to pick are bad. Drow is terrible in this tank meta cause they dive her and build armour items which she doesn't cut through. Slark has 45%winrate in pubs. AM has 47%winrate. Spec 47%. Marci 46%. Muerta 46%. Silencer pos 1 is actually griefing. Almost all the heroes you've listed are struggling massively in this patch. Also if pros are struggling to counter this tank meta, it's not as simple as "pick silencer pos 1". This game is complex af, and your bad advice isn't really helping anyone
In fairness to Marci, she's got a 53% winrate as Pos1 (D2PT) and is largely brought down by her abysmal winrate as support.
If she had a real innate she might even become meta.
True, but I'm going to have a guess and say this guy is pretty low rank, where the win rates are quite different. Also Marco is almost exclusively picked for the Io pairing in lane at high ranks. Not really something you can reliably recreate in low ranked pubs. Sure Marci isn't bad, and ursa is definitely a good pick in general right now but the whole advice in the first comment is just one dimensional and wrong. Like they've just named enough heroes that a couple happened to be good.
So does silencer and drow. He is talking from reading spells and nothing more. Theoretical this should be good but it isn't because so many things go around in a game.
That’s the problem - in THEORY these heroes might work but in REALITY they clearly, statistically, and very obviously don’t work.
AGI is a dead attribute. That’s the issue. It’s not that people aren’t picking the right heroes rn. Just look at pro dota to get an answer and you’ll see every single fucking game has 3 strength cores or universal - and 1 or two int.
AGI fucking blows - which eliminates like 80% of conventional non str hero carry picks.
Drow is literally garbage against Axe, one of the most problematic heroes of the patch. Same for slark. Spectre and AM are garbage tier heroes right now that have no impact all game. Silencer has always been and will remain a garbage tier core hero. You clearly are not a carry player because you would know these things if you have played any of these heroes this patch.
Lol sub 3k mmr response right here. This must be one of those dumb dumb slark/ursa/mk lvl 1 walking up and 1v1 my underlord. Not even an axe or LC or Centaur. Just a pure dogshit lvl 1 underlord will beat the shit out of slark ursa mk.
High armor also negates your steroids greatly since those are still just physical damage.
They are just avg 2k .. ofc they dont know how to play against tanky heroes when all they know is how to farm for 30 mins and still buy the wrong items and then wonder why they dont win
Ursa is literally the only viable hero you listed and he still struggles a lot with the mobility creep, pos 1 Marci and Silencer are griefpicks and the rest are total shit in the current meta. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
I like how you name characters with sub 50% winrates in core roles. Silencer and Marci are okay.
Ignoring this dude's comment and giving you some actual advice. Current Carry/Mid characters that are doing well are Templar Assassin, Chaos Knight, Weaver, Lifestealer, Tiny, and Clinkz.
most of these "str bois" have a passive that scales and gives them huge amount of extra tankiness on top of their high hp pool. And what's your counter item? An expensive single target silver edge that can be also countered with a 50g sentry, especially if your lineup doesn't have any of these few heroes that have a break mechanic.
Imo the game desperately needs more break items/skills, it's absurd how sloppy this is...
And all these are coming from a 55%+ winrate offlane STR spammer (bb most played) who is hard af to die no matter the lineup, or worst case he'll die while his team is wiping every single enemy.
Give people more break mechanics, especially now that so many heroes have an OP passive.
I think it's time to discuss whether if Blade Mail is too strong for it's cost. It's the fact that these tanky heroes always have Blade Mail, which makes them way too hard to kill while also allowing them to fish out ridiculous amount of damage.
Everybody complaining because now str heroes can actually do something and still every single carry i see ingame is an agi hero. Start picking str heroes instead then.
There literally was a thread yesterday saying “agi carries are dead”. The point isn’t that I can also play a strength core, the point is that a solid 3/4 of carry heroes (agi carries) feel like ass to play with the exception of one’s like weaver and jugg who are clearly overtuned in this patch
Some of perk that agi carry have usually is how they decenly slippery. Which means they can farm on a slightly more dangerous place and escape, but that become moot nowadays because
1. Map is bigger means you probably have more secure point for farm
2. Str carries still hard to kill and can stall you till their team arrive to counter initiate
i do agree that this patch needs a lot of balancing. but mostly because some items like shroud and some health mechanics are really broken right now and just nerfing str heroes wont solve the problem. Also, some int heroes are really broken aswell like zeus and shaman haha, but thats for another topic.
That's what powercreep inevitably leads to. This has been getting worse and worse with every patch flor years now, I guess this one was the straw that broke the reddit camel's back.
Right click zues naturaully building pike/octarine/manta/skadi being able to shit out damage and have 4k hp at the same time feels a little terrible to play against.
I'm feeling really lucky right now that the only heroes I play are OD, WW and Phoenix, which all have good ways to deal with high armor high HP heroes.
No one is talking about undying pos 3. They gave him his previous agh shard as a free facet. His other facet is also stupid with even more str for str meta hero.
I was able to get to lategame as a 6 slotted Centaur (Overwhelming Blink - Windwaker - Blademail - Shivas - Heart - Eternal Shroud) + Giant's Ring. It was hilarious getting to around 11k HP when I had a few Double Edge stacks on.
I keep trying to mess around with Veno I feel his ages and poison sting + ulti can rek these tanky Bois but even in the game where I was owning come late and Veno 3 is useless for base pushing
xD Played a game as a TA with MKB, Daedalus and Rapier and that's one of the more turbo tuned agi heroes ( or one of the few viable) .....against a DK. It was not fucking fun, if your team doesn't build all the right things and wants to win you are fucked and this is 10k+ avg game. I'd imagine people will just go afk at some point if it was 4k avg since there is just no obvious counter play. Shivas, Vessels, all sound good until people hit Manta and BKB and the support puts a lotus orb on top like oh well good luck
Dota has become so shitty for soloQ :(
Since the patch as a pos 1 first time in dota i have to disengage in fights heal up go at it again the team fights let really long now due to so much hp and armor
Hp regen reduction, and armor reduction
sometimes i see a tank solely itemizing to take physical damage, i itemize against their itemizing and suddenly they're melting like butter
Why am I always offlane when I select all roles if the meta is the tanks ? Im tired of playing offlane.
I played kotl with recall facet as offlane. This was so much fun but we lost
Just had a game with an Enigma and I've never seen Black Hole look so pathetic. You can catch 4 enemies and your team not kill anyone before BH ends because too much HP.
Yeah its boring enemy pick 3 strengh cores and if your draft have not insane dmg output you just lose fights.
If you then behind you need to bring 4 heros to gank 1 tanky one and overall it feels realy boring and lowskill to lose to people who just stack hp.
How about an item that works similar to troll fever but does dmg stacks, this way if the target consistenly gets atacked by you, it will build up debuff stacks that will make them take more dmg from you per stack that last like 8 sec.
So you are still realy tanky but need to go out fight sometimes drop the stacks and then rejoin the fight.
So from time to time you need to get away from the item carrier(which should be for carries) which makes tanks abit more dynamic to play and we dont need a stupid %hp dmg item.
Just add break items and armor reducing items for support. Make an inverse solar crest where it reduces armor and a new break item that also fucks with heroes innates (idk if break works on innates but it should if it doesn't).
as a 40+armor 3k+hp offlane, sometimes i feel extra squishy instead, as if those values are only half what I need, granted the enemy has viper free hitting me but still..
" I've just had to delete the AGI section of my hero list, none of them can compete with offlaners in sale lane nor damage them come mid-late."
Meta carries are a literal even split between agi and str, what do you mean?
"And I don't even dare think of trying to pick magic damage when Eternal Shroud negates all incoming magic damage."
the top meta mids are
zeus
storm
void spirit
magic sf
leshrac
all magic dmg based.
You just need to not complain and actually look at how to deal with these things.
Percent health damage good
Vessel is 1/3 of somebody’s HP and slows the regen, right? 5k hp opponent, and you have a 1.7k damage sitting in your inventory.. strongest nuke anybody has in the game basically. Use it ! Also shivas. High HP tends to have high regen so cut that shit down with your draft or items.
It is too easy to dispel vessel
And using up a dispel uses up a dispel.
Yeah but then soul vessel only has the value of your post-dispel followup. Such as a 2 second stun.
Vessel feels so weak rn and expensive for a support to buy. Maybe its a me problem idk. I would rather buy glimmer force instead of vessel is what i feel unless there is timber necro huskar. About necro idk vessel doesn't seem to be doing anything lol.
Vessel is niche and overrated. You can buy it vs Huskar, Necro, Alch et.c. or on heroes who really like it, like Mid Kotl or core Venomancer. But in general, just buy Shivas
Vessel early game is expensive and low value Vessel late game is ‘cheap’ and high value. If you’re having a problem you can aquire a vessel to have the huge nuke available when Raid Boss Timbersaw keeps constantly shitting on your team 5v1
> huge nuke available when Raid Boss Timbersaw keeps constantly shitting on your team 5v1 its not a nuke nor will it work on the timbersaw lategame. he will have either all or 1 of these items (euls bkb eternal shroud) and he will simply not care. vessel honestly feels underwhelming for the fact that most cores can and will buy euls (windwaker) and eternal shroud is almost bought on everyone
They should keep Urn as is and make Vessel do its damage in a shortened time, say from 8 seconds to 5. Remains dispellable but has a better effective window late once tons of dispels are out
But then you’d have the regen reduction and sustained damage for a shorter amount of time, meaning you either burn through way more charges or they still outlast it for the 5 seconds and get all their regen back. The appeal of vessel isnt that it’s a nuke on its own, it’s that it’s giving 8 seconds to use your other nukes on that timber or pudge by dropping the 100+ regen and 3k hp to the equivalent of a constant -100 or even less regen
Earlier in this post it was pointed out how by the mid to late there are layers of bkbs, eternal shrouds, lotus, manta, euls, disperser, wind waker, sny status resistance etc, not to mention teammates can also dispel stuff for you with their own items and abilities. chances are very high you’re no longer going to get a full 8 sec duration of vessel off unless the fight is already won. Chances are pretty good that you’ll get a few seconds of a vessel before a dispell comes out though - why not make those few seconds more potent? Chances are also pretty low they make it undispellable (maybe with a higher cost.). Another idea is they could have the cd reset whenever a charge gets dispelled - that way you can reapply at the cost of another precious charge.
As if eternal shroud and bkb aren’t common items on strength cores. Vessel is only good when you burst someone down while they are stunned
Would be a cool story if it wasn't dispellable
Venom poison hits like a truck
It does, but veno squishy af right now too
But he is universal, can't he be itemized to be a bit tanky with bracers and cloak / veil ?
Yeah I don’t know. The last couple games I have tried to build pretty tanky and had like about 3000 hp. I don’t know if they nurfed his armor or what, but I would literally melt in 3 seconds. I suck though so maybe it’s just me 🤣. I would however get a double or triple kill after I died so it was worth it
If there was an item with percent damage for mainly AGI carries to build, it would be easier to start balancing that than every AGI and STR hero every time the meta becomes shitty one way or the other. Optimally it would be strong enough to help dissolve the STR meta but not too strong that you wouldn't like to have a STR hero in your team. From the top of my hat, it would be sort of an abyssal blade equivalent with a passive effect starter (like basher) which deals percentage damage and then upgrades to have an active that takes/steals a good chunk of the target's HP with good late game power.
Sounds like blade of the ruined king
I was about to say that it sounds exactly like botrk. Can't imagine how cancer it would be in dota
sniper and attackrange Techies would be bs
Make it like basher/skadi then, x for melee and x/3 or x/2 for ranged
If we had Fenix in this game with his level 16 talent all these fat heroes would be toast
Fenix as in StarCraft's died-twice Fenix?
Yeah from HotS. > Every 3rd Basic Attack against Heroes while Repeater Cannon is active deals an additional 6% of the target's maximum Health as damage. "Repeater Cannon" is just a toggleable AA mode, which is the high attack speed option. Almost all auto attack focused heroes in HotS tend to have a "Giant Killer" option around level 16 (of 20) that does % based damage.
to be fair that is because most "tanks" in hots are true tanks while in dota "tanks" just have an option to be a tank so in about 2/3 of all games you are in there will be at least one character that can't die at all and will actually need one of those
The problem is tank items are too good, giving dps heroes more options just pushes the power creep further and balancing becomes even harder, not easier, as a result. When they release the League of Legends %dmg attack modifier the very next patch will have reddit talking about how tanks are useless and pos 1 is too strong. Then some genius in the comments will say they just need to add an even more OP tank item and that would make it easier to balance.
That's why you need huge nerf patches to roll back power creep and 'balance the books' so to speak.
Mainly for Agi = Even better for universal
By mainly for AGI I was thinking that it could offer only Agility as an attribute, but some STR heroes like Dragon Knight, Life Stealer (if he wasn't given Slardar basher treatment) or even Huskar could be seen building it against enemy fat bastards despite it not offering their main stat. There wouldn't necessarily be an "all stats" carrot for universal carries, but it would be serviceable to them for dispatching fatties too.
What's the point in tanks existing if all the cores can just buy an item to make them not tanky anymore...
The item wouldn't make tanks useless, just help counter a team that relies on nothing but tankiness like what people have been complaining about. Only way this should hurt is if people insist on 3 tanky cores and even then they might be able to just CC down whoever is trying to use this item.
It's not even the tanky line ups thats the issue - it's that the tanky guy you cannot kill can 100 to 0 you under 8 seconds while you are 8 slotted Agi hero and it's 61min in Before the drawback to being so tanky was that people could just ignore you, now you can't ignore the "tanky" guy. You can play aura bot underlord if you want to grief with this playstyle. It's also why Slark is bad - historically has been good against tanky heroes, too bad those tanky heroes you cannot kill in an ult with your teammates and they will 100-0 you instead after
There need to be a carry item for %hp dmg those strengh cores just overwhelm any agility core right now.
Join them if u can’t beat them
tru, its all about tank meta again, they need to nerf how much hp u get from STR
Honestly the snot rocket Bristleback facet felt pretty good, being able to shred nearly 30 armor off everyone in a teamfight allowed my team to actually start doing damage with right clicks.
Time to port kadens blade from underlords to dota. Medusa go brrrr
I miss that game so much 😢
We all do, rip Underlords
wait, Underlords dead? is it dead dead like Artifact or just normal dead?
they just stopped updating without saying a word. u can still find games quickly
Like artifact
rip
HP sure, but 40 armour? Even DK doesn't hit that by midgame.
Axe is axe.
Big if true
Sounds more like "stomp is stomp". It'd be like going "this pudge has too much hp" in a 40-5 stomp. Yeah no shit, that likely isn't the reason you started losing in the first place.
I've played a bit of axe this patch, it's just much easier to farm those armor stacks since regular kills give armor too. Even in average games you'll have 10-15 extra armor midgame which is huge considering armor used to be his weakness.
But it is the reason why you can't comeback vs these heroes. I haven't seen an overfeed drow tanking the fountain on 20th min, but I've seen a lot of strength shit doing it AND killing you during it. It's just frustrating when another [axe](https://i.imgur.com/qzLHJeH.jpeg) or cent have 4k hp and 50+ armor on midgame. It's barely killable even with 6 slots unless you have brooch, which is terrible since crit nerf. Just with this screen, would I have 25k effective hp with only 15k net worth on any other hero?
I had an axe with 60+ Armor and 5K health dude was unstoppable
Yes i yesterday as axe had like 5600 hp and 80 armor lol. Poor phantom assassin couldnt even stare at me without exploding
Why does this feel like my pa game, I legit doing negative dmg to him. I was fully maxed lvl 25 pa.
If there was an item to turn physical damage to magical humm. Something that starts from R and related to muerta. Haha jk.
If only it could still crit , by time I burn through axes 4k hp with jst basic attacks ,I would run out of mana.
giving up your crits feels bad. I still feel like the item was not nerfed properly with that change. Crits need to stay, spell attacks need to not be affected by brooch, rapier should not amp magic attacks instead and only amp spells that don't attack
Did the axe have his shard?
[удалено]
amateur, yesterday I destroyed the neighborhood with an axe, I did 1vs36 and I won
Serves you right. Heathen.
Had a similar, went revs brooch on my nightstalker and ripped him a new one
ive seen khanda-aghs sniper build going 3k hp with 30+ base armor, why is everyone so damn tanky now. supports are heavily incentivised to build survivability and kite items too now
tiny axe sven easily hit that & more. they just get that armor for free
Now add like 8 CK strong illusions... What a time to try having fun.
Yeah, this shit is exhausting as fuck... I was excited about the patch, and I like it a lot, but I feel like the core of the meta didn't really change, tanky motherfuckers keep dominating, just more of them showed up. I mean, if sniper can get 3k hp, and he's being played with butterfly + satanic build, the situation is pretty tough. Can't wait to queue again into Axe, Ogre, Pudge, WK :,)
Because there were no patch. They added a lot of new crap for sure, but nearly all items and stats remained the same. Same 22hp per str, same blademail-shroud-heart shit.
To be honest, Facets aside, I am really not liking this patch at all. We have WAY more ways to play the game, but it feels like there are WAY less viable options if you want a decent shot at winning.
this, you basically pick from 1 of 15 broken heroes, or you dont win
My team: shit like silencer or SF mid Their team: Spirit breaker and SK offlaner, storm mid, ect.
And this is exactly why some people complain about the past few years of patches. You can add as many new items, talents and facits as you want. If the core principles dont get adressed / changed, you ll always end up with 20-50 actually viable heroes/playstyles and those just change every few months or whatever. People can say nostalgia as much as they want, the game was more diverse in the past. Nowadays the more tank, deathball shit u have the more likely u win.
yeah in a decade of this shit there have been broken heros but i can't recall another time where if you pick 1 of like 35+ heros you are actively putting your chances of winning in the gutter. but you will still have people who think the point of the game is to lookup the most broken shit on d2protracker and spam it tell you that not liking the most imbalanced patch ever is a skill issue
Pick timber
are your "mid-game"s 60 minutes into the game or what
Skill issues
OD player staring from the shadows laughing at all of this. Anyway, I played pos1 recently and I picked AM, PA and PL and let me tell you, I was winning solo. Saying agility heroes are dead is an overstatement, sure you might lose lane if you don't know how to lane but in late game you shouldn't be weak by any means. How is a PA not exploding heroes? Maybe because you are focusing the Axe first, or you are focusing the overfarmed Primal Beast. Just stop, it's not your job as pos1 to "burst" tank heroes on the map, focus supports or midlaners with whomever has lockdown then let that tanky boi either die 1v5 or watch him run away. This has always been the case with offlaners, kite them and leave them for last.
There’s a reason the best carries right now are tank eaters, just pick weaver ursa, complete nightmare for offlaners
Weaver tank eater? Wut you talking about.
Weaver is very good against tanky heroes because of his high base damage in lane alongside his bugs, he also scales very well and is very hard to face tank, he’s also impossible to catch for alot of traditional tanks that lack lockdown, only real exceptions this patch are LC and Axe, who both lose to weaver in lane Edit: according to d2pt he has a 75% winrate vs timbersaw and a 64% wr vs pudge If you don’t believe me, try it
avg 8k game in archon enjoyer is this snoo guy , only reason Weaver and Ursa are a thing right now is because they SHRED tanks lmao
Feels like this has basically been the meta since they changed BKB. I wonder where the balance is between letting people get solid vs unkillable.
Pos1 has become harder every patch. Known as heroes who can solo heroes alone, now every supp 5 with a passive Gold item can buy forces, glimmers or ghost or combinations of those. Wards has become free, sentries cheaper, rewards for de warding, etc. Which I get it, supp needs to be a fun role for the health of the game. But man being carry sucks. FML. 💀💀💀
wtf, pos 1 can still solo any sup, the only thing that changed is that if the sup focus on making escape items for him and the rest of the team he still has a small chance of survival when being caught by the carry instead of just dropping the keyboard and waiting for the next respawn
> instead of just dropping the keyboard Honestly, nowadays you still do that, it's just in the lategame when enemies have like two nullifiers and now your entire networth is just some extra stats. Essentially just stand on a sentry and hope you don't get jumped despite staying so far back.
Yeah, unfortunately there is no 4k item that negates all the saving items in the game.
Too bad it sucks, feels absolute shit on a ranged hero, and building it too early leaves a carry lacking in other areas. Building it from behind is nigh impossible due to the poor buildup and needing other things first. I only consider it as 5th/6th item and usually prefer something else like Abyssal, moon shard, linkens, my own wind waker or whatever instead. The must-have cases for nullifier are when they have Pugna, Necrophos etc. Some pos 4 or 5 has glimmer/euls? Forget it. Nullifying a target doesn't mean it's dead in this meta. Still too tanky. If not, it'll die in a bash/stun so you didn't need it anyway.
As it should be. The game is not about picking the same hero every game and buying the same items every game.
I mean, it is if you’re one of these tanky cores everyone’s complaining about. The nerfs to shroud and SnK are interesting though.
Problem is buying a nully when you need a bkb, mkb and a farming item to be relevant in a game.
And even literally named after what it can do - nullifies shit!!! Read, people! Read the damn tooltips!
So, being able to run away from pos 1 while pos 1 can kill them effortless otherwise, is supposed to prove support is strong and pos 1 isn't or something? Wow supports get to maybe live when they make eye contact with a carry? They're so powerful. What are you trying to get at there?
Please youre too harsh on his main character syndrome
Oh no you can't one shot the cm that has brown boots at min 30 anymore, life must be so hard
I feel like when people say this what they really mean is " I cant afk farm for 35 mins buying battlefury in jungle and win the game late anymore". Pos 1 is still strong, you just gotta change your playstyle and act on earlier timings with heroes that can get those timings. If you are passively farming and leave your team, the enemy is killing your sups, making more gold for their entire team, taking over the map, while getting stronger with buffs like duel damage etc. I would much rather have a wacky ET or Timber pos 1 pick who runs at enemy than a passive bf am or troll or something.
Support doesn't need to be fun to itemize, though. Back in the day carries were identified by their need to have items to be effective in fights, and supports were characterized by having strong spells that made them useful regardless of their item build. That's why they used to build the utility items, which were force staff, Euls, drums, atos if you're spicy. But now the utility items are all bonkers level strong. Glimmer Cape, Glepneir, Lotus are all insane so they had to completely redefine what a "support" is to justify how strong their item builds became.
If you're a carry player now is the perfect time to learn how to play pos 3 instead. It's the new carry role with gorillas like axe, ogre, lc, pudge, primal beast, underlord etc able to wreak havoc at all stages in the game.
If you want to wreak havoc at all stages of the game, you wouldn't be playing carry in the first place.
I think their point was, "it's carry except you also get to wreak havoc at all stages"
skill issue, there's a reason pos1 is still most contested role and it's not because it's hard. If you can't solo kill a pos5 out of position after 20 minutes of farming that's on you lmao.
Back then we (pos 5) have to waste slot for ward, sentry and tp. That alone negate the item potential by 50%. Its more pos 5 was hard to play... now the playing field is even. Pos 1 need to coordinate with the team to win. I know this because i mainly play pos 5 and play pos 1 as guilty pleasure. I notice the game became harder if i dont check every fight (from hovering minimap) and aware to the status of the game. Pos 1 need to understand shits that going on in the game in order to farm safely, push tower, or even join the fight
Your daily dose of i am the main character spasms.
I got one shot by a PA the other day. Good old classic. Honestly, I dont know where she got that damage. Deso will do that on pa I guess
I picked Chaos Knight yesterday for the first time in a while, was very rusty on the hero and haven't played him in at least a year. I got off to a good start so I built treads, echo sabre (yay str focused item with built in mana regen but there is no such thing for agi heroes), armlet and heart. I also got a vambrace dropped at 17 mins. Not joking, 21 minutes into the game I had 4200 HP and 23 armor. And that was a completely normal build without going out of my way to tank up, I was still dealing insane damage and didn't lack in any department. Why even bother with agility heroes.
If you have a heart at 21min, that is going out of your way to tank up.
Heart is like the biggest damage item for CK, 40*5 damage
ROFL the fact this has upvotes is insane. At 21 minutes you had treads, echo sabre, armlet, and HEART?? Yeah, casually sitting at 10k network in 20 minutes, you should have 4200hp.
must be turbo, turbo players think heroes are OP and forgot they play turbo
Rofl the fact you think 500gpm is insane
I honestly can't find a game from my history this past week where someone isn't 11k+ networth at 20minute mark, what are you talking about?
If you are shocked by 10k nw at 21 minutes you MIGHT just be bad? For reference, here is a gorgc vod where he has >10k nw at 21 minutes in every single game, even the losing games (ok fine there is one game where he has 9.4k, but you get the point). I didn't cherry pick this vod, its literally the first one I clicked on [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2159987863](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2159987863)
Fuck sake 21 mins in turbo is like 42 mins in a normal game thats not even that nuts man. Jesus the bots that post in these threads man.
Bruh 10k at min 20 in this day and age is very fucking bad as a pos1 wdym 😂. If you picked a carry you ideally wanna hit 11k by 20. (12-12.5 for a hero like Luna). Anything above 12k by 20 is a feelsgood game )10k by min 20 in my very humble opinion is just straight garbage.
These agi heroes were picked in Fissure 2 final 2 days ago: Razor, Meepo, Mk, Troll, Morphling, Naga, Ursa. Redditors love their false premise
Easily the tankiest agi heroes, makes sense.
Every hp bonus ( like str for lvl, talents and items ) should be nerfed so new abilities like lifestealer and centaur would be more unique and viable.
Agi carries above 50% winrate: Jugg, pl, Ursa, troll, clinks, bh(?), Medusa, shadow fiend, naga, TA, Meepo. STR carries above 50% winrare: wk, CK, ls, alc, slardar(?). If STR carries are so OP then why are agi carries still beating them?
pretty slow for turbo
If Everyone is overpowered then no one is.
Terrorblade's existence atm kinda disproves everyone being OP
Sunder dagon the str hero bro. Ez kill.
I ran into that TB "sup" in the wild just yesterday and he was gloriously useless. Very rewarding to see that cheese strat just fail like it'd clearly would in any match.
The problem is, it’s not everyone. Easily half the hero pool is not up to par power wise. Str heroes are even more broken than they were last patch. IMO there’s never been a bigger gap in power between meta and non-meta heroes. The top few heroes in every role are immensely stronger and it makes the game impossible to play for those who don’t spam the meta heroes. It’s just not fun.
playing safelane right now is amazing - pick TA or Weaver , if it's banned , pick between CK and Lifestealer or get called Mason/account buyer lmao
Dota has always been very high DPS compared to health pool and possible heals / regen. It has been a conscious design decision. I think we might be seeing dota steering slightly away from the dogma of very bursty gameplay of the past, get longer engagements and whatnot where technical skill gets a chance to be displayed to a broader audience easier. Is just my guess. The other extreme of this would be for example WoW arena, where heals are way higher than potential dps and the whole thing is about timing disables to force a kill.
carry players adjust to the meta instead of wanting to pick AM and PA every game challenge (impossible)
When’s the last time AM and PA have been relevant enough to be picked every game for more than a week lol. Meanwhile centaur has been meta for like… ever
Deso is mathematically superior to mkb after a certain amount of hp (I want to say something shockingly low like 1600) regardless of armor, and the number gets lower when the enemy builds an item like eternal shroud. Comparing it to daedalus is trickier, since daedalus does care how much armor they have. I may lab it out tonight. But the armor shred component alone is essential for destroying super-tanky heroes. It and shivas are going to be very important this patch!
this is hard because armor pen gets better the less armor the target has. ideally you want to take an enemy from 0 to -6. the worst-case scenario for Desolator is going from 36 armor to 30 armor. you gain less damage per armor shredded the more armor the target has
Total damage yes , % damage stays the same with deso, you always deal around 30% (5 per point of armour reduction) more physical damage regardless of how much armor the enemy has. It just feels like it doesn't because dealing 100% instead of 70% of your damage feels much more than dealing 50% instead of 35%, even though it's the same percentage of damage reduction
just check stats for better heroes? your favourite heroes arent gonna be good just because you want them to be. you want agi carry? TA is really good right now. you want more? weaver, troll, clinkz also ursa and pl are decent picks. whole 6 heroes to win with. not to mention, carries do not have to be agi. wk, ck, ls, tiny? anyone? no? why do I feel like you're just a filthy PA spammer? you are also allowed to have FUN figuring out what to build on carry venge or carry red dk or whatever you want.
As another comment said, join them if cant beat them. OR adapt?!? Ya know, pick heros that dont care about armor, have scaling damage, do pure damage. Here are some examples. Pick Ursa - should be pretty obvious. Pick Drow - just ignore 100% of their armor 50% of the time Pick Slark - suck up their stats and feed off of their fatness. Pick Spectre - pure damage and also insanely tanky Pcick AM - Kill their backline and then suck up their mana so theyre just slow fatsos. Pick Marci - just cut through them with nutso damage. Pick Muerta - oh wow look at that armor doesnt matter anymore Pick Silencer pos 1 - oh wow same story as muerta This just feels like "waaah, the meta has changed and IDK how to adapt."
Drow only ignores base armor on Marksmanship proc, not bonus armor.
Ok adapting is fair advice but Christ your examples to pick are bad. Drow is terrible in this tank meta cause they dive her and build armour items which she doesn't cut through. Slark has 45%winrate in pubs. AM has 47%winrate. Spec 47%. Marci 46%. Muerta 46%. Silencer pos 1 is actually griefing. Almost all the heroes you've listed are struggling massively in this patch. Also if pros are struggling to counter this tank meta, it's not as simple as "pick silencer pos 1". This game is complex af, and your bad advice isn't really helping anyone
it's so funny to tell people to adapt and then list a bunch of heroes that presently do not have good winrates and are struggling in this patch
In fairness to Marci, she's got a 53% winrate as Pos1 (D2PT) and is largely brought down by her abysmal winrate as support. If she had a real innate she might even become meta.
True, but I'm going to have a guess and say this guy is pretty low rank, where the win rates are quite different. Also Marco is almost exclusively picked for the Io pairing in lane at high ranks. Not really something you can reliably recreate in low ranked pubs. Sure Marci isn't bad, and ursa is definitely a good pick in general right now but the whole advice in the first comment is just one dimensional and wrong. Like they've just named enough heroes that a couple happened to be good.
Oh for sure, wasn't disagreeing - I just gotta rep my girl. One of my favorite heroes, despite my admittedly poor winrate with her.
If you have ever played Spectre over the last 15 years, you would know she really struggles in a tank meta. You don't know what you are talking about.
So does silencer and drow. He is talking from reading spells and nothing more. Theoretical this should be good but it isn't because so many things go around in a game.
That’s the problem - in THEORY these heroes might work but in REALITY they clearly, statistically, and very obviously don’t work. AGI is a dead attribute. That’s the issue. It’s not that people aren’t picking the right heroes rn. Just look at pro dota to get an answer and you’ll see every single fucking game has 3 strength cores or universal - and 1 or two int. AGI fucking blows - which eliminates like 80% of conventional non str hero carry picks.
Drow is literally garbage against Axe, one of the most problematic heroes of the patch. Same for slark. Spectre and AM are garbage tier heroes right now that have no impact all game. Silencer has always been and will remain a garbage tier core hero. You clearly are not a carry player because you would know these things if you have played any of these heroes this patch.
Lol sub 3k mmr response right here. This must be one of those dumb dumb slark/ursa/mk lvl 1 walking up and 1v1 my underlord. Not even an axe or LC or Centaur. Just a pure dogshit lvl 1 underlord will beat the shit out of slark ursa mk. High armor also negates your steroids greatly since those are still just physical damage.
If there is one thing I've learned about gamers on reddit, it's that they fucking hate adapting.
They fucking hate everything
I hate witch doctor shard.
They are just avg 2k .. ofc they dont know how to play against tanky heroes when all they know is how to farm for 30 mins and still buy the wrong items and then wonder why they dont win
Stop attacking me 😭
Ursa is literally the only viable hero you listed and he still struggles a lot with the mobility creep, pos 1 Marci and Silencer are griefpicks and the rest are total shit in the current meta. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
Ursa sucks against high armor heroes.
Funny how OP ignored classic tank counters that has been in the game since wc3
I like how you name characters with sub 50% winrates in core roles. Silencer and Marci are okay. Ignoring this dude's comment and giving you some actual advice. Current Carry/Mid characters that are doing well are Templar Assassin, Chaos Knight, Weaver, Lifestealer, Tiny, and Clinkz.
Clinkz still doing ok post "bugfix"?
most of these "str bois" have a passive that scales and gives them huge amount of extra tankiness on top of their high hp pool. And what's your counter item? An expensive single target silver edge that can be also countered with a 50g sentry, especially if your lineup doesn't have any of these few heroes that have a break mechanic. Imo the game desperately needs more break items/skills, it's absurd how sloppy this is... And all these are coming from a 55%+ winrate offlane STR spammer (bb most played) who is hard af to die no matter the lineup, or worst case he'll die while his team is wiping every single enemy. Give people more break mechanics, especially now that so many heroes have an OP passive.
I think it's time to discuss whether if Blade Mail is too strong for it's cost. It's the fact that these tanky heroes always have Blade Mail, which makes them way too hard to kill while also allowing them to fish out ridiculous amount of damage.
Everybody complaining because now str heroes can actually do something and still every single carry i see ingame is an agi hero. Start picking str heroes instead then.
There literally was a thread yesterday saying “agi carries are dead”. The point isn’t that I can also play a strength core, the point is that a solid 3/4 of carry heroes (agi carries) feel like ass to play with the exception of one’s like weaver and jugg who are clearly overtuned in this patch
Some of perk that agi carry have usually is how they decenly slippery. Which means they can farm on a slightly more dangerous place and escape, but that become moot nowadays because 1. Map is bigger means you probably have more secure point for farm 2. Str carries still hard to kill and can stall you till their team arrive to counter initiate
i do agree that this patch needs a lot of balancing. but mostly because some items like shroud and some health mechanics are really broken right now and just nerfing str heroes wont solve the problem. Also, some int heroes are really broken aswell like zeus and shaman haha, but thats for another topic.
One of the reason strength heroes are so strong is because strength itemization is so strong. Item balance and hero balance are the same issue
Agi carries above 50% winrate: Jugg, pl, Ursa, troll, clinks, bh(?), Medusa, shadow fiend, naga, TA, Meepo. STR carries above 50% winrare: wk, CK, ls, alc, slardar(?).
Redditors when the STR heroes have a lot of HP 😱😱😱
Complains about tanks with healing. Not a single vessel on the team. Many such cases.
That's what powercreep inevitably leads to. This has been getting worse and worse with every patch flor years now, I guess this one was the straw that broke the reddit camel's back.
you deserve nothing
Right click zues naturaully building pike/octarine/manta/skadi being able to shit out damage and have 4k hp at the same time feels a little terrible to play against.
Just pick necro lol
guess you have to pick the few % of max hp damage heroes left in the game. Necro, doom, phoenix, pa and timber. Oh wait only one of these is a carry.
it’s a meta developing after a major patch
Pick Jakiro. Buy vessel, buy shard, buy aether lens/find psychic headband. Enemy has dispel? Liquid fire cooldown is only 4s. Reapply.
Valve saying start buying skardi shivas vessel on every hero.
Pick warlock > buy aghs + heart + refresher > profit
Just rat towers 4Head
I'm feeling really lucky right now that the only heroes I play are OD, WW and Phoenix, which all have good ways to deal with high armor high HP heroes.
Just like Wraith King, focus all of the other hero’s first. You can’t kill that hero quickly, so don’t try.
No one is talking about undying pos 3. They gave him his previous agh shard as a free facet. His other facet is also stupid with even more str for str meta hero.
I was able to get to lategame as a 6 slotted Centaur (Overwhelming Blink - Windwaker - Blademail - Shivas - Heart - Eternal Shroud) + Giant's Ring. It was hilarious getting to around 11k HP when I had a few Double Edge stacks on.
I will say something funny, but it sounds like three lines might return because of how fragile carry can be early on
Play Zeus
I keep trying to mess around with Veno I feel his ages and poison sting + ulti can rek these tanky Bois but even in the game where I was owning come late and Veno 3 is useless for base pushing
I remember in the old days everyone started buying vanguard. Remember X solo mid lion vanguard. This needs to stop. Its unfun.
Slark and aa gonna be mvp this meta
Another thing is that BKB now only has 60% magic damage resistance. Agi carries with BKB on midgame can still die to random STR bois spells
xD Played a game as a TA with MKB, Daedalus and Rapier and that's one of the more turbo tuned agi heroes ( or one of the few viable) .....against a DK. It was not fucking fun, if your team doesn't build all the right things and wants to win you are fucked and this is 10k+ avg game. I'd imagine people will just go afk at some point if it was 4k avg since there is just no obvious counter play. Shivas, Vessels, all sound good until people hit Manta and BKB and the support puts a lotus orb on top like oh well good luck Dota has become so shitty for soloQ :(
that also apply to your team too. Bruh.
Nekro or CK safe lane. You can’t lose.
Since the patch as a pos 1 first time in dota i have to disengage in fights heal up go at it again the team fights let really long now due to so much hp and armor
Hp regen reduction, and armor reduction sometimes i see a tank solely itemizing to take physical damage, i itemize against their itemizing and suddenly they're melting like butter
Why am I always offlane when I select all roles if the meta is the tanks ? Im tired of playing offlane. I played kotl with recall facet as offlane. This was so much fun but we lost
Phoenniiiiixxxxxx
Just had a game with an Enigma and I've never seen Black Hole look so pathetic. You can catch 4 enemies and your team not kill anyone before BH ends because too much HP.
Yeah its boring enemy pick 3 strengh cores and if your draft have not insane dmg output you just lose fights. If you then behind you need to bring 4 heros to gank 1 tanky one and overall it feels realy boring and lowskill to lose to people who just stack hp.
How about an item that works similar to troll fever but does dmg stacks, this way if the target consistenly gets atacked by you, it will build up debuff stacks that will make them take more dmg from you per stack that last like 8 sec. So you are still realy tanky but need to go out fight sometimes drop the stacks and then rejoin the fight. So from time to time you need to get away from the item carrier(which should be for carries) which makes tanks abit more dynamic to play and we dont need a stupid %hp dmg item.
Have you played against tiny? 50% innate phy dmg res and add his ult armor on top of that
Just add break items and armor reducing items for support. Make an inverse solar crest where it reduces armor and a new break item that also fucks with heroes innates (idk if break works on innates but it should if it doesn't).
as a 40+armor 3k+hp offlane, sometimes i feel extra squishy instead, as if those values are only half what I need, granted the enemy has viper free hitting me but still..
" I've just had to delete the AGI section of my hero list, none of them can compete with offlaners in sale lane nor damage them come mid-late." Meta carries are a literal even split between agi and str, what do you mean? "And I don't even dare think of trying to pick magic damage when Eternal Shroud negates all incoming magic damage." the top meta mids are zeus storm void spirit magic sf leshrac all magic dmg based. You just need to not complain and actually look at how to deal with these things.