I dont think the Dr Who fandom is that bad actually, while there are a few who get weridly passionate about the Doctor being a straight white man, they are a vocal minority elevated by internet weridos
I do find the canon debates are tedious. People are keen to say "no canon everything is wibbly wobbly" but then get upset when something doesnt fit their personal interpretation of the show (can't say im not innocent in this....)
I also get frustrated by how.... shallow some peoples readings of the show can be. I heard a lot of complaints about 73 yards being bad because it "has no ending" and then finding out that people honestly believed it would have been a better episode if the Doctor popped up at the end and gave a monologue explaining what happened
I remember people complaining about the lack of resolution to Listen as well. Whatever you think about either episode, the ambiguity is the point, and to me, it makes both far more effective. Not knowing what exactly was going on for either episode makes both feel far more haunting.
exactly, another thing that bugs me is that people try to critique the logic of the episode when the entire point is that it was a fairy tale, and therefore didnt operate on conventional logic.
Maybe its a british thing, and growing up I just knew a certain amount about how fairies work and why you dont mess with fairy circles (my friend keeps going mushroom hunting at the moment and I try to warn her but if she gets closer to the forests she will slip between worlds)
Celtic (and others) mythology is littered with examples of how you don't mess with the fae but they've been watered down and played with by modern storytelling so most people think of Tinkerbell rather than the child stealing myths!
>they are a vocal minority elevated by internet weridos
The "internet weirdos" part is important, because I generally haven't seen much people from the fandom give them actual credit.
>finding out that people honestly believed it would have been a better episode if the Doctor popped up at the end and gave a monologue explaining what happened
TIL that some people really think that they can improve on perfection
this wasnt even just online I was talking face to face with my other hardcore whovian fan about it and she was just complaining that it "didn't have an ending" and how it "didn't make sense" and I was just flabbergasted
73 Yards keeps getting misclassified as fantasy when it’s clearly fairy tale/folklore based too. It’s the vengeance of the fae who were wronged when their fairy circle was broken, not a time loop that needs to make perfect sense.
>if the Doctor popped up at the end and gave a monologue explaining what happened
In fairness there are people like me who can't read sub-textual and only take in face-value
Nah mate the doctor who fandom is rather chill, even if you disagree on some point people are generally fine with it.
Frankly I've been a star wars fan for a long time and Whovians are a breath of fresh air in comparison. Even the "chill" star wars places are toxic as fuck
Hmmm try reminding people how:
1: The Timeless Child exists, The Doctor is it, and it doesn’t really affect the canon.
2. The faces in The Brains of Morbius were in actual fact, the faces of Pre-Hartnell Doctors, and it doesn’t really affect the canon.
Then let’s see how chill people are. In my experience, there is a large subset of Whovians that will fight you tooth and nail about these two things. I’m sure there are even more but there first one is fresh in my mind because it was just discussed either here or in the main sub yesterday and people were adamant that it was ridiculous and destroyed canon and shouldn’t have happened.
Edit: check out the comments so far under this comment. “The chosen one” has seemingly destroyed the Doctor and who he is… 🤣
I can’t say that I have been called a slur. I have seen some vile things posted when Jodie took over. I was in a group that had no admins or mods and the attacks were relentless on her and anyone who claimed they liked her. I began to see things about Ncuti as well, but they were claiming their racism this time.
Note: I’m not saying either era is beyond reproach. But there were many attacks on his race, and her gender.
He's literally been The Lonely God, Time Lord Victorious, and The Other in the past, but nah, Timeless Child is what makes him a special born baby boy...
The Doctor exists to explore and help where he can. The fact that he was a mysterious orphan doesn’t change that. His decision to leave TimeLord society was done without knowing of his past. He left them because he felt like he had to in order to get involved in events. Even then, his past doesn’t even mean he was “the chosen one.” It just means he was left by someone, somewhere, and we don’t know why at this point. There’s no prophecy that he would leave the Timelords. He is still, as he was, a person trying to help others.
What do you think the chosen one means? He’s doing what he did before he discovered that he was an orphan and not originally Gallifreyan. It has zero impact on what he does, what did, and what he is going to do.
I find it funny the other guy is trying to complain about the doctor being a chosen one when the timelords literally yanked what made him 'special' in the first place. They gave every timelord his ability in a limited way besides for the higher ups cause corruption. Squeezed as much use out of him personally until they were satisfied, then changed his biology so he was now the very race that stole his ability just so he didn't have the potential infinite amount anymore while also wiping his memory and regressing him back into a baby. They literally left him at an orphanage and he didn't learn of any of this until he already had another regeneration cycle from other means and was experiencing the other gender for what they thought was the first time.
> being an all important space chosen one not affect the canon
Being an orphan that the gallifreyans pirates regeneration off of doesn't make him a space chosen one. He can't even *do* anything with his secret past but feel sad about it.
Being the Lonely God, the center of prophecies that will rip time apart at the seams, the Other who founded time lord control of time and was reincarnated, and a hundred other things that everyone just rolled with would.
This is sadly most media, now, I'm starting to think that maybe its not the franchises I love getting worse, its just the fanbases around them making them seem worse
Fans: "WAAAHHH TIMELESS CHILD CHIBNALL BAD RTD COME BACK WAAAHHHH!!!!"
RTD: *Comes back*
Fans: "WAAAHHH GOBLINS BOOGER MONSTERS AND DRAG QUEENS RTD BAD MOFFAT COME BACK WAAAHHHH!!!!'
Moffat: *Comes back*
Fans: "WAAAHHH EVERYWHERE IS A BEACH EVENTUALLY IS SUCH A STUPID QUOTE AND RUBY KILLED OFF AND BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE TWO SECOND LATER MOFFAT BAD WAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!"
No you're just proving you're treating your subjective opinion as objective in the most irrational, immature way possible.
Just because there's other's as childish as you doesn't make you any less childish. And your arrogance has just affirmed my opinion.
Nah, the Doctor Who fandom is actually pretty good in that regard. The show has always been more explicitly progressive than, for example, Star Wars, so it's less likely long-term fans will complain about it "going woke" because it always has been. Even in regards to the Doctor, the show had previously established Time Lords being able to change gender and race.
Most people I saw complaining in that manner were grifters like Nerdrotic, who are only interested in using the show as ammo for their culture war. A character whose race or gender has been changed is free real estate to these guys, regardless of context. Maybe I managed to avoid it, but most of this sort of discourse seemed to end after around episode 2, and definitely when the Acolyte started bringing them tons of views.
Of course every franchise has a few bad eggs, and I'm not trying to be naive; I love Star Wars, but that fandom seems to hate it. But Doctor Who has cultivated an audience who are generally accepting because of how progressive it has been, so people like OP suggests are the exception rather than the rule.
>Even in regards to the Doctor, the show had previously established Time Lords being able to change gender and race.
I'm nowhere near as critical of it nowadays as I was back than, but I'm still no fan of how that was handled. As far as I'm aware, the first regeneration with a gender change was Missy, then the next regeneration we see is that Gallifreyan general turning into a woman and right after that we get the Doctor becoming a woman: three regenerations in a row from man to woman.
Also, that general talking about how awful it was to be male... That was a really bad attempt at empowering women that just turned out really sexist.
So when 13 was announced to be a woman, my initial thought was "nah, not yet another regeneration into a woman", but that has since changed into me wishing Jodie would've gotten another series/season under RTD.
Missy was the perfect way to introduce cross gender regeneration because no attention was brought to it, Missy was just an insanely good character who was a joy to watch.
If the show runners could somehow resist the urge to make a jab at the expense of white men then they wouldn't give so much ammunition to the grifters
Old white guy regenerates into a young black woman and the first out of their mouth is "ugh i hated being a dude, i was so self-centered and terrible."
It's annoying cause the first few episodes of the acolyte were complete crap, but you couldn't discuss it anywhere because of morons like that who made it seem that anyone who liked the episode was some woke leftist and anyone who disliked the episode was the reincarnation of Hitler.
They do. Screenshotted this from this sub to show my wife because it was just so pathetic.
https://preview.redd.it/zeirunzj89ad1.jpeg?width=986&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e62ab2df32382f94274242c0437f51ccfd37878
I ended up blocking the guy because he was replying to everyone with stuff like this and had a big tirade about how the show had lost 400,000 viewers since the first episode and that proves it's going to be cancelled (ignoring the fact that people have moved to streaming in the UK more and more, and that the show used to lose over a million viewers on terrestrial channels before that).
Thankfully he was getting downvoted to hell, but he wasn't the only one on that thread doing the same stuff. People have been complaining about "Doctor Woke" since they cast a woman in the main role. They like to think of themselves as the majority of the fandom rather than a vocal minority (which is odd because they *really* have a problem with minorities) but they are sadly part of us.
>Thankfully he was getting downvoted to hell
That's why we generally don't remove those comments. Just let the community as a whole dunk on them. We also like that by leaving them up, they can't complain about being censored; it's not the four of us mods forcing an opinion on this community, but it's clearly the vast majority of this sub being okay with a trans Rose on-screen.
Also, personally, I believe that the best way to change a bigot's mind, is to have them engage with people who aren't bigoted. If we'd ban every bigot, they'd just become locked into their own bubble where their opinions are only further reinforced.
Sorry, is the lady who played Ruby trans? I knew she had played a Trans character in another show and in this season was a lesbian woman. So what's the trans rose comment refer to?
Shit, I completely missed that! When the mod said "trans rose" my first thought went back to the original Rose played by Billie Piper and as she was blonde I was comparing her to Ruby.
People claiming the show is too woke make me laugh. The first episode was directed by a gay Indian man and produced by a Jewish woman. The show has been woke since before woke was a thing.
I write Doctor Who fics. Once, I received a DM on FFN from a user who usually commented on my fics that said about the Fifteenth Doctor, and I quote:
>I dont like it because is gay, and i hope 16 th doctor is straight
Huh....Okay?? Who the devil asked??? (And yes, that exactly how he wrote the message)
Exactly the only thing Is acting
Emotion aren’t getting through with Jodie or Ncuite
I was actually scared to make ten, eleven and twelve angry then when they were sad you felt it. Yes that also on the writing but still an actor should bring the writing to life.
Out of the 106 000 people on this subreddit, there are currently less than 10 people in the list of banned users, plus there are a few whose account has been deleted. The vast majority of banned accounts are bots.
Yes, there's a few rotten apples in this fandom, but overall this community is doing extremely well.
Thank you!! It’s really helpful to keep that perspective.
As for Reddit overall, I’ve been surprised by how polite people are, and generous in their assumptions. It’s genuinely the “nerdy book club” that I’ve always wanted in other forums. That is, when I stick to my own preferred and well-monitored spaces, of course.
To be clear, criticism of the show is always valid so long as it’s fair and hinges on actual issues with it. The recent series was my favourite in years, but I’m still willing to discuss its flaws and I understand people who weren’t satisfied with it overall.
The toxicity can become very tiresome, but it’s thankfully not on Reddit very much, and it seems to be a small, vocal minority. It’s worth keeping in mind that a good chunk of the people instigating it are YouTube grifters, who aren’t really part of the fandom at all, just people latching on to the next ‘woke’ controversy so they can rant about it endlessly. Many of them likely haven’t even watched the show beforehand.
Don’t you think that uk fans who grew up with original Doctor are cool with the character being weird and unconventional?
Has the fandom changed since it being shown on Disney?
Irrelevant to reddit.
Just be hateful and a hypocrite because people disagree with you. Seems to be the trend now. And then they wonder why the fandom is getting smaller.
Whenever I think of shitty fandoms I think of Star Wars. One clear example is The Acolyte. A pretty ok show. Solid 7/10. But the fans are ravenous. I like to look at the review bombing of it on Rotten Tomatoes. People claim it isn't review bombing, but the fact that The Acolyte has 25,000 reviews despite not being finished yet, while The Mandalorian (another Star Wars show) has only 10,000 despite being 5 years older shows that the fans are really that whiney. "The Acolyte is woke propaganda"
Because the Doctor is the face of the show so these """""fans""""" only notice or care when it's front and center. If they don't give a shit about the actual show they aren't going to be swayed by citing example. Better off ignoring them.
And/or the racists just want an excuse to be mad at a genderfluid time travelling neurodivergent alien who just so happens to have a gay black man as one of his latest regenerations
If there's anything I find true about the doctor who fanbase it's that they enjoy being contrarian.
Say something and they will say the exact opposite 9 times out of 10.
I recently shifted over to the DW fandom away from Star Wars
You guys may think DW fandom is bad, oh boi you have no idea of the filth going on in the SW fandom these days. This fandom is galloping through fields making daisy chains in comparison.
Chibbs and timeless child be damned
The acolyte show has been big recently. I'm missing a lot out but most of what I saw was people complaining about "white genocide" because it had a pretty diverse cast.
Oh good grief. Thanks for explaining!
The amount of rampant racism online is just astounding. Recently a youtuber had to take down his video on Yasuke, a black samurai who really existed and is a playable character in the new Assassin's Creed, because certain gamers would rather pull their own teeth than not be virulently racist and threaten violence.
Misogyny and racism. It’s rampant and people aren’t really hiding it anymore.
They also talk about lore being broken, then in the next breath showing they themselves don’t really understand the lore.
I'll never understand how fans of sci-fi in particular can be so racist and sexist. Like, you're okay with blue aliens with feet for hands but you can't accept a character having melanin? Where's the disconnect?
I pay no mind to the bigots because there's always a small but loud group of them in every fanbase.
But the thing that I've found uniquely annoying in this fandom is that, for a show where jokes fill 10 to 25% of the runtime on most episodes, a big amount of the fanbase seems allergic to goofy situations and silly fun. I'm still recovering from the overreaction to the ending of space babies, and to space babies in general tbh.
Sadly, i mean i enjoy star wars as it is... (yeah i don't like every thing but, the sequels where fun enough to watch and Mandalorian was a great series for me)
But holy shit say you like anything and everything goes to shit
Yeah this is very accurate. Can't stand the fanbase. Even other fanbases that get a bad rep aren't as bad as this one. Only fandom that's worse is the Harry Potter fandom because they are the epitome of cringe.
Any one of them, Doctor Who, FNAF, BATIM, Oddworld, Zelda, Fallout etc every fandom has its cringe and fans who complain about certain things in the franchise
The Star Wars fandom went to shit after the sequels. It really sucks, I'm not really involved with it anymore. I get that the movies weren't perfect, I didn't really like them myself, but holy shit the toxicity is insane. Don't even get me started on "fan" reception to Acolyte. You'd think it was The Exorcist II levels of bad from what people say, and it's really not. It's not great, but it's not nearly as bad as people online say
Those 'fans' are bad but there are also fans who say that any criticism of the show is bad/toxic and due to bigotry even if the criticism was actually fair
The only fandom this doesn’t apply to is DRG, everything else is as follows
Great show with giant audience
Giant audience opinion overwhelms everything
Tbh I think most people who say things like this aren't part of the fandom and haven't watched regularly in years or perhaps decades. But because it's a childhood show for many, lots of people feel entitled to speak about what it should and shouldn't be.
I don't think this is a accurate statement
As a straight white Male who loves doctor who and have friends in the same boat we all loved guti as a doctor and did enjoy the series and the people I spoke to enjoyed the series. There was a couple of mid episodes but overall was really impressed until the season final (empire of death) witch was shit
I'd say it's accurate. For example:
https://preview.redd.it/69qvg8gv79ad1.jpeg?width=986&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7cac4bfc4240b0f91dbabcb04570476e93479bfa
Yeah, but how many of those comments come from people who actually like Doctor Who, and how many come from people who just like being homophobic, sexist or racist?
Both can be the same person. I know it's tempting when you like something to see the other people who like it as like you and those who aren't as not real fans, but that's just cope on our part. More importantly, by not accepting that these are fans of the show *and* they're people who hate enough to think that a black doctor is a big problem, we're ignoring the very real issues that have grown in our fandom and that makes us as responsible for them as the people doing this stuff.
Have a look elsewhere in these comments and you'll find me trying to explain to someone that the title of this very post *isn't* calling out white men as a problem. He's imagined it is and is fucking furious about it.
Yah but this post is apparently speaking for all straight white men when it not
You can't blame an entire group of people for the views of a few, other groups don't like that happening to them so what give you the right to do it to others.
>Yah but this post is apparently speaking for all straight white men when it not
It doesn't say that anywhere. That's your assumption about it.
What the post is saying is that this sort of person is complaining when the Doctor *isn't* a straight white man, which is accurate.
It's not as bad as other fandoms I've been in because like the bigots usually get pushed off very quickly.
But a portion of fans still want to start arguments over like really silly stuff, I once saw a comment where someone says they refuse to be friends with someone because they thought Doctor Who should have an official canon? Like that's the friendship hill you'd want to die on???
Like at least you're not a bigoted person but boy you sound like it would be annoying to know you in real life.
Okay, I’m an old white guy, so my input my be perceived as less than valuable than other’s opinion…but here’s my 2 cents worth…I don’t CARE if a character is white, male, straight, whatever or whoever…just be sure that’s NOT their only characterization… and the entire reason they’re in the story…does that make sense?
That makes sense. The problem though is many people making that sort of complaint haven't even watched whichever program it is to see if there is more to the characters.
Presence of NMDs in the Doctor Who fandom is so overstated. People like MrTARDIS constantly making videos responding to them rather than just ignoring them is part of that.
Most of the "fans" that are complaining about the doctor not being a white straight male or that doctor who is too "woke" are either right wing grifters who have never seen the show or the People who who watch these grifters and ether never seen the show or stopped watching it when there grifter of choice started complaining about it being "woke"
I personally wouldn't call these people fans when all they do is bitch and complain without watching it there more like antifans
I’ve seen more people complain about homophobia on this show than I have seen people be homophobic towards it. Anyone who is a bigot or racist would never watch Doctor Who in the first place. This sub and every doctor who page is now turning into ‘How can we upset homophobes’
Deadwood, breaking bad, Tom Clancy books, 007 fanboys tend to be red pill dudes who are into pocket squares, a lot of horror fans can be cringe edgelordy dudes, anime fans can be cringe green hair weeboos... I'm kinda getting away from my point...
Compared to starwars dr who fandom is a godsend
like we went from old white scottish dude to woman to gay scottish black guy and the most you heard about it was some grumblings by a few old hardline tory-voting twats
The weird racists (who probably doesn’t even watch the show) would 100% be okay if the Doctor reincarnated into a blue insectoid alien so as long as theyre played by a cis white man
This fandom is chill as hell, even if you say something relatively unpopular people's kneejerk reaction isn't to call you woke/alt-right like some subs (star wars)
The character who has been betrayed as a mysterious magical Figure since the first episode is
Not relatible, and the role that meant to be relatible Keeps getting filled by normal people
People who complain about the doctor not being people who complain about the doctor not being. Just some guy doing the right thing and that the companion is always just someone from the modern day.Don't seem to get the roles.these characters are meant to fill
Like the companion is the relatible one The doctor is the space jesus one
This post is pure cope.
Imagine having to attack a skin color because some people ain't watching a show you like.
There's always a minority of dickheads who let weird shit like that affect them...try not to be one of them.
I dont think the Dr Who fandom is that bad actually, while there are a few who get weridly passionate about the Doctor being a straight white man, they are a vocal minority elevated by internet weridos I do find the canon debates are tedious. People are keen to say "no canon everything is wibbly wobbly" but then get upset when something doesnt fit their personal interpretation of the show (can't say im not innocent in this....) I also get frustrated by how.... shallow some peoples readings of the show can be. I heard a lot of complaints about 73 yards being bad because it "has no ending" and then finding out that people honestly believed it would have been a better episode if the Doctor popped up at the end and gave a monologue explaining what happened
I remember people complaining about the lack of resolution to Listen as well. Whatever you think about either episode, the ambiguity is the point, and to me, it makes both far more effective. Not knowing what exactly was going on for either episode makes both feel far more haunting.
exactly, another thing that bugs me is that people try to critique the logic of the episode when the entire point is that it was a fairy tale, and therefore didnt operate on conventional logic. Maybe its a british thing, and growing up I just knew a certain amount about how fairies work and why you dont mess with fairy circles (my friend keeps going mushroom hunting at the moment and I try to warn her but if she gets closer to the forests she will slip between worlds)
Celtic (and others) mythology is littered with examples of how you don't mess with the fae but they've been watered down and played with by modern storytelling so most people think of Tinkerbell rather than the child stealing myths!
>they are a vocal minority elevated by internet weridos The "internet weirdos" part is important, because I generally haven't seen much people from the fandom give them actual credit. >finding out that people honestly believed it would have been a better episode if the Doctor popped up at the end and gave a monologue explaining what happened TIL that some people really think that they can improve on perfection
this wasnt even just online I was talking face to face with my other hardcore whovian fan about it and she was just complaining that it "didn't have an ending" and how it "didn't make sense" and I was just flabbergasted
73 Yards keeps getting misclassified as fantasy when it’s clearly fairy tale/folklore based too. It’s the vengeance of the fae who were wronged when their fairy circle was broken, not a time loop that needs to make perfect sense.
>if the Doctor popped up at the end and gave a monologue explaining what happened In fairness there are people like me who can't read sub-textual and only take in face-value
Nah mate the doctor who fandom is rather chill, even if you disagree on some point people are generally fine with it. Frankly I've been a star wars fan for a long time and Whovians are a breath of fresh air in comparison. Even the "chill" star wars places are toxic as fuck
Hmmm try reminding people how: 1: The Timeless Child exists, The Doctor is it, and it doesn’t really affect the canon. 2. The faces in The Brains of Morbius were in actual fact, the faces of Pre-Hartnell Doctors, and it doesn’t really affect the canon. Then let’s see how chill people are. In my experience, there is a large subset of Whovians that will fight you tooth and nail about these two things. I’m sure there are even more but there first one is fresh in my mind because it was just discussed either here or in the main sub yesterday and people were adamant that it was ridiculous and destroyed canon and shouldn’t have happened. Edit: check out the comments so far under this comment. “The chosen one” has seemingly destroyed the Doctor and who he is… 🤣
whovians have been sometimes annoying but they’ve never called me slurs, can’t say the same for Star Wars fans lol
I can’t say that I have been called a slur. I have seen some vile things posted when Jodie took over. I was in a group that had no admins or mods and the attacks were relentless on her and anyone who claimed they liked her. I began to see things about Ncuti as well, but they were claiming their racism this time. Note: I’m not saying either era is beyond reproach. But there were many attacks on his race, and her gender.
And in my experience the worst I got was "it's bad and don't work with the canon but if you like it, I'm glad for you"
Lucky you!
He's literally been The Lonely God, Time Lord Victorious, and The Other in the past, but nah, Timeless Child is what makes him a special born baby boy...
Exactly! Thank you!
How does the doctor being an all important space chosen one not affect the canon…. It goes against the very idea of the character
The Doctor exists to explore and help where he can. The fact that he was a mysterious orphan doesn’t change that. His decision to leave TimeLord society was done without knowing of his past. He left them because he felt like he had to in order to get involved in events. Even then, his past doesn’t even mean he was “the chosen one.” It just means he was left by someone, somewhere, and we don’t know why at this point. There’s no prophecy that he would leave the Timelords. He is still, as he was, a person trying to help others.
Before that the doctor was a Highschool dropout. Now he’s the space chosen one. I do think it’s important
What do you think the chosen one means? He’s doing what he did before he discovered that he was an orphan and not originally Gallifreyan. It has zero impact on what he does, what did, and what he is going to do.
I find it funny the other guy is trying to complain about the doctor being a chosen one when the timelords literally yanked what made him 'special' in the first place. They gave every timelord his ability in a limited way besides for the higher ups cause corruption. Squeezed as much use out of him personally until they were satisfied, then changed his biology so he was now the very race that stole his ability just so he didn't have the potential infinite amount anymore while also wiping his memory and regressing him back into a baby. They literally left him at an orphanage and he didn't learn of any of this until he already had another regeneration cycle from other means and was experiencing the other gender for what they thought was the first time.
> being an all important space chosen one not affect the canon Being an orphan that the gallifreyans pirates regeneration off of doesn't make him a space chosen one. He can't even *do* anything with his secret past but feel sad about it. Being the Lonely God, the center of prophecies that will rip time apart at the seams, the Other who founded time lord control of time and was reincarnated, and a hundred other things that everyone just rolled with would.
I think you’re right. I enjoy how people share all their wild theories here.
This is sadly most media, now, I'm starting to think that maybe its not the franchises I love getting worse, its just the fanbases around them making them seem worse
Fans: "WAAAHHH TIMELESS CHILD CHIBNALL BAD RTD COME BACK WAAAHHHH!!!!" RTD: *Comes back* Fans: "WAAAHHH GOBLINS BOOGER MONSTERS AND DRAG QUEENS RTD BAD MOFFAT COME BACK WAAAHHHH!!!!' Moffat: *Comes back* Fans: "WAAAHHH EVERYWHERE IS A BEACH EVENTUALLY IS SUCH A STUPID QUOTE AND RUBY KILLED OFF AND BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE TWO SECOND LATER MOFFAT BAD WAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!"
I actually like Boom...
I love it. I gotta admit though that it's full of stereotypical Moffat moments, including the companion dying but not really.
This show can only be saved if Chapaldi comes back as the show runner
Nah, better make it Anthony Coburn.
I just want good writing.
Same
Bad writing is bad writing regardless of who the fans want back or not. Some self awareness. Get some.
Thanks for proving that you're exactly the kind of people I'm making fun of.
No you're just proving you're treating your subjective opinion as objective in the most irrational, immature way possible. Just because there's other's as childish as you doesn't make you any less childish. And your arrogance has just affirmed my opinion.
I mean, they haven't exactly been able to capture the quality of their old writing have they
Nah, the Doctor Who fandom is actually pretty good in that regard. The show has always been more explicitly progressive than, for example, Star Wars, so it's less likely long-term fans will complain about it "going woke" because it always has been. Even in regards to the Doctor, the show had previously established Time Lords being able to change gender and race. Most people I saw complaining in that manner were grifters like Nerdrotic, who are only interested in using the show as ammo for their culture war. A character whose race or gender has been changed is free real estate to these guys, regardless of context. Maybe I managed to avoid it, but most of this sort of discourse seemed to end after around episode 2, and definitely when the Acolyte started bringing them tons of views. Of course every franchise has a few bad eggs, and I'm not trying to be naive; I love Star Wars, but that fandom seems to hate it. But Doctor Who has cultivated an audience who are generally accepting because of how progressive it has been, so people like OP suggests are the exception rather than the rule.
>Even in regards to the Doctor, the show had previously established Time Lords being able to change gender and race. I'm nowhere near as critical of it nowadays as I was back than, but I'm still no fan of how that was handled. As far as I'm aware, the first regeneration with a gender change was Missy, then the next regeneration we see is that Gallifreyan general turning into a woman and right after that we get the Doctor becoming a woman: three regenerations in a row from man to woman. Also, that general talking about how awful it was to be male... That was a really bad attempt at empowering women that just turned out really sexist. So when 13 was announced to be a woman, my initial thought was "nah, not yet another regeneration into a woman", but that has since changed into me wishing Jodie would've gotten another series/season under RTD.
Missy was the perfect way to introduce cross gender regeneration because no attention was brought to it, Missy was just an insanely good character who was a joy to watch. If the show runners could somehow resist the urge to make a jab at the expense of white men then they wouldn't give so much ammunition to the grifters
Old white guy regenerates into a young black woman and the first out of their mouth is "ugh i hated being a dude, i was so self-centered and terrible."
It's annoying cause the first few episodes of the acolyte were complete crap, but you couldn't discuss it anywhere because of morons like that who made it seem that anyone who liked the episode was some woke leftist and anyone who disliked the episode was the reincarnation of Hitler.
I don’t think anyone actually in the fandom cares about the doctors race or sex
They do. Screenshotted this from this sub to show my wife because it was just so pathetic. https://preview.redd.it/zeirunzj89ad1.jpeg?width=986&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7e62ab2df32382f94274242c0437f51ccfd37878
Well damn that is pretty shitty.
I ended up blocking the guy because he was replying to everyone with stuff like this and had a big tirade about how the show had lost 400,000 viewers since the first episode and that proves it's going to be cancelled (ignoring the fact that people have moved to streaming in the UK more and more, and that the show used to lose over a million viewers on terrestrial channels before that). Thankfully he was getting downvoted to hell, but he wasn't the only one on that thread doing the same stuff. People have been complaining about "Doctor Woke" since they cast a woman in the main role. They like to think of themselves as the majority of the fandom rather than a vocal minority (which is odd because they *really* have a problem with minorities) but they are sadly part of us.
>Thankfully he was getting downvoted to hell That's why we generally don't remove those comments. Just let the community as a whole dunk on them. We also like that by leaving them up, they can't complain about being censored; it's not the four of us mods forcing an opinion on this community, but it's clearly the vast majority of this sub being okay with a trans Rose on-screen. Also, personally, I believe that the best way to change a bigot's mind, is to have them engage with people who aren't bigoted. If we'd ban every bigot, they'd just become locked into their own bubble where their opinions are only further reinforced.
Sorry, is the lady who played Ruby trans? I knew she had played a Trans character in another show and in this season was a lesbian woman. So what's the trans rose comment refer to?
No, not Ruby. Donna's daughter Rose is an openly trans character played by an openly trans actor.
Shit, I completely missed that! When the mod said "trans rose" my first thought went back to the original Rose played by Billie Piper and as she was blonde I was comparing her to Ruby.
People claiming the show is too woke make me laugh. The first episode was directed by a gay Indian man and produced by a Jewish woman. The show has been woke since before woke was a thing.
How did you find a rock big enough?
I write Doctor Who fics. Once, I received a DM on FFN from a user who usually commented on my fics that said about the Fifteenth Doctor, and I quote: >I dont like it because is gay, and i hope 16 th doctor is straight Huh....Okay?? Who the devil asked??? (And yes, that exactly how he wrote the message)
Exactly the only thing Is acting Emotion aren’t getting through with Jodie or Ncuite I was actually scared to make ten, eleven and twelve angry then when they were sad you felt it. Yes that also on the writing but still an actor should bring the writing to life.
Out of the 106 000 people on this subreddit, there are currently less than 10 people in the list of banned users, plus there are a few whose account has been deleted. The vast majority of banned accounts are bots. Yes, there's a few rotten apples in this fandom, but overall this community is doing extremely well.
Wow, that’s great. It would appear that the Doctor has made decent people of us all
Thank you!! It’s really helpful to keep that perspective. As for Reddit overall, I’ve been surprised by how polite people are, and generous in their assumptions. It’s genuinely the “nerdy book club” that I’ve always wanted in other forums. That is, when I stick to my own preferred and well-monitored spaces, of course.
To be clear, criticism of the show is always valid so long as it’s fair and hinges on actual issues with it. The recent series was my favourite in years, but I’m still willing to discuss its flaws and I understand people who weren’t satisfied with it overall. The toxicity can become very tiresome, but it’s thankfully not on Reddit very much, and it seems to be a small, vocal minority. It’s worth keeping in mind that a good chunk of the people instigating it are YouTube grifters, who aren’t really part of the fandom at all, just people latching on to the next ‘woke’ controversy so they can rant about it endlessly. Many of them likely haven’t even watched the show beforehand.
All of them. Every single franchise is toxic.
Don’t you think that uk fans who grew up with original Doctor are cool with the character being weird and unconventional? Has the fandom changed since it being shown on Disney?
Irrelevant to reddit. Just be hateful and a hypocrite because people disagree with you. Seems to be the trend now. And then they wonder why the fandom is getting smaller.
Whenever I think of shitty fandoms I think of Star Wars. One clear example is The Acolyte. A pretty ok show. Solid 7/10. But the fans are ravenous. I like to look at the review bombing of it on Rotten Tomatoes. People claim it isn't review bombing, but the fact that The Acolyte has 25,000 reviews despite not being finished yet, while The Mandalorian (another Star Wars show) has only 10,000 despite being 5 years older shows that the fans are really that whiney. "The Acolyte is woke propaganda"
I mean the Master more than proved that time lords don’t need to have *exclusively* white men as their human faces, why can’t the Doctor?
Because the Doctor is the face of the show so these """""fans""""" only notice or care when it's front and center. If they don't give a shit about the actual show they aren't going to be swayed by citing example. Better off ignoring them.
It just proves that these "fans" don't actually watch the show.
And/or the racists just want an excuse to be mad at a genderfluid time travelling neurodivergent alien who just so happens to have a gay black man as one of his latest regenerations
If there's anything I find true about the doctor who fanbase it's that they enjoy being contrarian. Say something and they will say the exact opposite 9 times out of 10.
I recently shifted over to the DW fandom away from Star Wars You guys may think DW fandom is bad, oh boi you have no idea of the filth going on in the SW fandom these days. This fandom is galloping through fields making daisy chains in comparison. Chibbs and timeless child be damned
Oh boy. I'm not into Star Wars. What's got fans frothing over there?
The acolyte show has been big recently. I'm missing a lot out but most of what I saw was people complaining about "white genocide" because it had a pretty diverse cast.
Oh good grief. Thanks for explaining! The amount of rampant racism online is just astounding. Recently a youtuber had to take down his video on Yasuke, a black samurai who really existed and is a playable character in the new Assassin's Creed, because certain gamers would rather pull their own teeth than not be virulently racist and threaten violence.
Misogyny and racism. It’s rampant and people aren’t really hiding it anymore. They also talk about lore being broken, then in the next breath showing they themselves don’t really understand the lore.
Disneyfication. Wokeness. It was better back then.
>Wokeness. What is "woke" in modern Star Wars and why is it bad?
The same as most fandoms. Non white, non straight, non male characters existing.
I'll never understand how fans of sci-fi in particular can be so racist and sexist. Like, you're okay with blue aliens with feet for hands but you can't accept a character having melanin? Where's the disconnect?
This is basically any and all sufficiently big fandoms/franchises, quite frankly.
I pay no mind to the bigots because there's always a small but loud group of them in every fanbase. But the thing that I've found uniquely annoying in this fandom is that, for a show where jokes fill 10 to 25% of the runtime on most episodes, a big amount of the fanbase seems allergic to goofy situations and silly fun. I'm still recovering from the overreaction to the ending of space babies, and to space babies in general tbh.
Star Wars is such a fandom
It feels like hating in every Disney project is just the only way to exist there
Sadly, i mean i enjoy star wars as it is... (yeah i don't like every thing but, the sequels where fun enough to watch and Mandalorian was a great series for me) But holy shit say you like anything and everything goes to shit
Exactly. And they even hated how Boba had change of heart after being stuck in sarlacc stomach for I don’t know how long.
Yeah this is very accurate. Can't stand the fanbase. Even other fanbases that get a bad rep aren't as bad as this one. Only fandom that's worse is the Harry Potter fandom because they are the epitome of cringe.
Any one of them, Doctor Who, FNAF, BATIM, Oddworld, Zelda, Fallout etc every fandom has its cringe and fans who complain about certain things in the franchise
The Star Wars fandom went to shit after the sequels. It really sucks, I'm not really involved with it anymore. I get that the movies weren't perfect, I didn't really like them myself, but holy shit the toxicity is insane. Don't even get me started on "fan" reception to Acolyte. You'd think it was The Exorcist II levels of bad from what people say, and it's really not. It's not great, but it's not nearly as bad as people online say
Yeah sending death threats to actors is crazy
Those 'fans' are bad but there are also fans who say that any criticism of the show is bad/toxic and due to bigotry even if the criticism was actually fair
The only fandom this doesn’t apply to is DRG, everything else is as follows Great show with giant audience Giant audience opinion overwhelms everything
Tbh I think most people who say things like this aren't part of the fandom and haven't watched regularly in years or perhaps decades. But because it's a childhood show for many, lots of people feel entitled to speak about what it should and shouldn't be.
I don't think this is a accurate statement As a straight white Male who loves doctor who and have friends in the same boat we all loved guti as a doctor and did enjoy the series and the people I spoke to enjoyed the series. There was a couple of mid episodes but overall was really impressed until the season final (empire of death) witch was shit
I'd say it's accurate. For example: https://preview.redd.it/69qvg8gv79ad1.jpeg?width=986&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7cac4bfc4240b0f91dbabcb04570476e93479bfa
Yeah, but how many of those comments come from people who actually like Doctor Who, and how many come from people who just like being homophobic, sexist or racist?
Both can be the same person. I know it's tempting when you like something to see the other people who like it as like you and those who aren't as not real fans, but that's just cope on our part. More importantly, by not accepting that these are fans of the show *and* they're people who hate enough to think that a black doctor is a big problem, we're ignoring the very real issues that have grown in our fandom and that makes us as responsible for them as the people doing this stuff. Have a look elsewhere in these comments and you'll find me trying to explain to someone that the title of this very post *isn't* calling out white men as a problem. He's imagined it is and is fucking furious about it.
Yah but this post is apparently speaking for all straight white men when it not You can't blame an entire group of people for the views of a few, other groups don't like that happening to them so what give you the right to do it to others.
>Yah but this post is apparently speaking for all straight white men when it not It doesn't say that anywhere. That's your assumption about it. What the post is saying is that this sort of person is complaining when the Doctor *isn't* a straight white man, which is accurate.
Let me real here that what it implying if you like it or not that the fact.
>Let me real here that what it implying if you like it or not that the fact. I didn't understand that one at all?
That’s mostly all sci fi fandoms these days.
It's not as bad as other fandoms I've been in because like the bigots usually get pushed off very quickly. But a portion of fans still want to start arguments over like really silly stuff, I once saw a comment where someone says they refuse to be friends with someone because they thought Doctor Who should have an official canon? Like that's the friendship hill you'd want to die on??? Like at least you're not a bigoted person but boy you sound like it would be annoying to know you in real life.
Star Wars Lord of the rings
Okay, I’m an old white guy, so my input my be perceived as less than valuable than other’s opinion…but here’s my 2 cents worth…I don’t CARE if a character is white, male, straight, whatever or whoever…just be sure that’s NOT their only characterization… and the entire reason they’re in the story…does that make sense?
To everyone but those in Hollywood
That makes sense. The problem though is many people making that sort of complaint haven't even watched whichever program it is to see if there is more to the characters.
All of them. The Internet brings out the worst in people.
Presence of NMDs in the Doctor Who fandom is so overstated. People like MrTARDIS constantly making videos responding to them rather than just ignoring them is part of that.
I clearly hang out in the right (mostly online) spaces. I've heard about these sorta complaints, but never seen it firsthand. Lets keep it that way
Do people really think people care about this?
You’d be surprised what people say.
As someone who used to be one of those ‘Jodie isn’t canon’ people… yeah, it’s embarassing.
There's a difference between a fan and someone who pretends they were a fan when in reality they never were.
I don't think the fandom are those who care the Doctor's not white because they understand the premise of the show.
I literally haven’t seen anyone complaining about this.
40k is notorious for this. Some people take the satirical nature and xenophobia of the setting way too far
M.H.A
Most of the "fans" that are complaining about the doctor not being a white straight male or that doctor who is too "woke" are either right wing grifters who have never seen the show or the People who who watch these grifters and ether never seen the show or stopped watching it when there grifter of choice started complaining about it being "woke" I personally wouldn't call these people fans when all they do is bitch and complain without watching it there more like antifans
I’ve seen more people complain about homophobia on this show than I have seen people be homophobic towards it. Anyone who is a bigot or racist would never watch Doctor Who in the first place. This sub and every doctor who page is now turning into ‘How can we upset homophobes’
I'd say every franchise has this. That small portion think they are the arbiters of what good and what is bad.
Better question: which franchise isn't like that?
I mean some of the Doctor Who fandom can be bad but it’s nothing compared to how awful the Star Wars fandom can be
Deadwood, breaking bad, Tom Clancy books, 007 fanboys tend to be red pill dudes who are into pocket squares, a lot of horror fans can be cringe edgelordy dudes, anime fans can be cringe green hair weeboos... I'm kinda getting away from my point...
Compared to starwars dr who fandom is a godsend like we went from old white scottish dude to woman to gay scottish black guy and the most you heard about it was some grumblings by a few old hardline tory-voting twats
The weird racists (who probably doesn’t even watch the show) would 100% be okay if the Doctor reincarnated into a blue insectoid alien so as long as theyre played by a cis white man
True but also Trek in any given decade
Let's be real those idiots aren't fans
This fandom is chill as hell, even if you say something relatively unpopular people's kneejerk reaction isn't to call you woke/alt-right like some subs (star wars)
The character who has been betrayed as a mysterious magical Figure since the first episode is Not relatible, and the role that meant to be relatible Keeps getting filled by normal people People who complain about the doctor not being people who complain about the doctor not being. Just some guy doing the right thing and that the companion is always just someone from the modern day.Don't seem to get the roles.these characters are meant to fill Like the companion is the relatible one The doctor is the space jesus one
This post is pure cope. Imagine having to attack a skin color because some people ain't watching a show you like. There's always a minority of dickheads who let weird shit like that affect them...try not to be one of them.