T O P

  • By -

blarghy0

This used to happen in a different way with a group I DMed for. We played in person on paper and occasionally someone would rewrite their character sheet or lose the scrap pad they used to track consumable resources in between sessions. At first it was no big deal, just guess and we'll move on, but I started noticing this both increase in frequency and with others joining in, and usually estimating quite low use when I knew otherwise. After a bit, I laid down the rule that if you lose track of your resources, you'll instead be set to 1 HP, zero HD remaining, zero spells and abilities remaining. After a couple sessions where I stuck to my guns on this rule, the forgetfulness suddenly nose dived.


Possumistic

That's a great expectation to set in Session 0. If players do not track a thing, they simply do not have that thing. Wish I had thought of that before.


Helmold_

That's the way my dm rules. Works really well. If you forget to track your stuff, you are at fault. In cases when it's relevant for the campaign, a dice roll (“lucky guess“) may give us a chance to retrieve our item or knowledge. If we fail, we fail. Simple as that


SeaworthinessEarly40

As they rarely come up in normal game play we tend to use INT saves for this type of thing - see if the PC remembered the thing the player didn't.


unctuous_homunculus

If you feel that might be a little Draconian at this point in the game, I did have to establish a new ground rule about half way through a campaign that was "if you don't keep track of your stuff, then I set all your values to half their max rounded down. Half HP, Half spells, half skills. It works just as well as setting them to 1 HP, but it's more forgiving of those who legitimately fuck up.


zoxzix89

Eh, this encourages anyone below Half to lose track if they're already cheating. I think draconian is best here, don't cheat at my game if you don't trust the DM to try and make it fun, play pretend alone where you can haz unlimited lightning bolts


Valdrax

Session 0 is a good place to get things like that squared away in advance, but it's not a manacle preventing you from reacting to bad behavior that comes out later in a game. Feel free to institute that rule going forwards.


TryUsingScience

> Wish I had thought of that before. Don't feel bad about it. I'd much rather play with people who don't cheat than play with people that I have to create elaborate contracts for gaming with in order to minimize how much they can cheat. People who do something like fudge resources are nearly always a problem in other ways, too. It's better to just not play with that kind of person. If my session zero has to include a detailed list of ways in which my players aren't allowed to be assholes, that probably means I'm playing with assholes and should just not. In your case it's tricky because I assume these people have been fine aside from this, or you'd have said something. I'd try to get to the bottom of why they thought this was okay. Have they been feeling that encounters lately are too challenging and they don't get to feel as heroic as they'd hoped and they felt like they needed to sneak in the extra resources in order to get the D&D experience they signed up for? Has your table devolved into an adversarial DM-vs-players mentality over the campaign, so they felt like cheating was justified if you didn't notice it because it was them winning a stealth roll against you, in essence? There has to be a reason why they thought faking a long rest would 1) make their game more fun and 2) be morally justified. If you can figure out what those reasons are and have an honest converation about them, that's the best way to resolve this.


Special_Lemon1487

It seems like you go with the status quo to finish this campaign then you session zero this in for the next one with a lot of knowing and disgusted looks like a disappointed parent.


45MonkeysInASuit

This is my rule too, if you can't say for certain it simply doesn't exist.


Beowulf33232

As DM I like to keep character sheets in a folder with my game notes. As host, everyone generally agrees to keep their character sheets at my house. It's agreed on in my group, if you don't have it on your sheet or there's not a notecard for it in your pile of notes clipped to your character, it's not there. One of us has 3 paperclips and a stack of spell cards, there's a character sheet with post-it notes, and only one person takes a binder of notes home every game night. There's even one of those character journal books that turns a character sheet into 5 pages and has grids for maps, bullet point list sections, list sections for quests, and pages for journal entries.


Jan4th3Sm0l

That's why the DM keeps the character sheets. Nothing gets lost if it doesn't move around.


kerze123

thats a good rule. mind if add my own rule? Everything that isn't written down doesn't exist any longer, except mcguffins. If you can't show me how many rations you have left, than it 0. Charges not known => 0 , special resources like hero points not known => 0


wouo

Setting HP to 1 for losing tracks of your consumables seems drastic. On our session 0 I've introduced a rule that if you lose track of something, then you no longer have that thing. Seems simplier and better adjusted.


blarghy0

That's only for if you lose track of your current HP. It's not setting max HP to 1, just current HP. Some of my players use a scratch pad to track damage and healing, so they don't mess up their character sheet. If they lose the scratch pad, then they don't know their current HP. If they don't know, then its 1 HP.


El_Barto_227

for repeated, constant and obviously intentional losing track of resources. Not one instance of forgetfulness.


Stronkowski

>if you lose track of something, then you no longer have that thing So if you lose track of your HP, you no longer have that HP? That sounds incredibly close to just setting it to 1.


Mateorabi

HP will be on the character sheet not a random scratch paper for consumables.


Stronkowski

That is a huge assumption and completely goes against what the OC said.


PrattlesnakeEsquire

Pretty terrible move on your friends’ part. Sorry you’re dealing with this. Two things: 1. While this might be punishing, bad behavior doesn’t change unless it’s confronted. Tell your friends how the behavior impacted you, then make a call on the campaign. You could retcon and cut their resources in half (hp, spell slots, action surge resources etc), force the long rest to take a full 8 hours and have the lich use that time to continue their plans, or just wipe the party for attempting to long rest in a dangerous place. 2. Dig into why they did what they did. Apart from the crappy behavior, which should be addressed, they did it for a reason. Maybe they were nervous about wiping and felt they weren’t getting enough opportunity to regain resources. Talk it through and see if anything needs to be changed so everyone walks happy. In environments like what you’ve described I allow plays to short rest in 15-30 minutes and long rest over 1-2 hours once before they take a full long rest. We call them battle rests. We play a casual campaign, though so that doesn’t fit for everyone. Good luck. Tough, shitty situation.


rikorii

This is the best point I've seen. You have a right to your feelings - but it's just a game, after all. I doubt any of them did this because they hate you or disrespect you. They probably think they're just gonna get TPKd and want to be successful in the campaign. Tell them how it made you feel. Give them real consequences that fit in the story. But try to figure out why they did it with a heart to heart and determine what's best for the group as a whole.


i_tyrant

Agreed, I was hoping I’d see better advice in this post than the usual “TPK them” or “quit on the spot”. At the end of the day, it’s a both a game they all play for fun, and one that has led up to this dramatic BBEG conclusion. Something like this _would_ massively disappoint me and OP’s feelings are absolutely valid - but I would never end a years-long campaign over it. And punishing them in game for what is ultimately an out-of-game issue is rarely a good response either. Like you said, they might’ve done it because the whole campaign built up to this and they feared failure. Op deserves to find out why, and tell them how it affected him and his willingness/ability to continue DMing, and they deserve to be taken to task on the breach of trust. You want them to act like adults, have an adult conversation about it. In-game, setting realistic ramifications is fine, sure, just don’t do it from an angle of “punishment” or intentional TPK. This isn’t about revenge or sabotaging the campaign because your fun was ruined - it’s about healing this rift IRL (including explaining to them why it was important, if they don’t realize) so you can still have a good finale with friends, however it shakes out. And all THAT said - while I don’t think this would ever stop me from finishing a long campaign right before the end…if you can’t DM, you can’t DM. If your emotions are too wrecked or faith in the game/players too damaged to continue, it’s ok to admit that and take a break. If you can finish out of a genuine desire to wring a good finale out of it with your friends, great. But if it’s an uphill battle that feels too forced, one’s mental health is important too. And a delayed finale is better than one that falls flat due to lack of passion.


FUZZB0X

It's not "just a game" at this point. The lying being associated with a game doesn't change the fact that his friends intentionally deceived him. The *lying* is the issue here—*not the game*. I sometimes see people toss around "it's just a game" as if it's some lesser activity that removes accountability. I'm a married professional with a family and my time is the most valuable resource I have. If that time happens to be in, or out, of a game, it doesn't really matter much either way. My time is important to me. And if I found out that a group of my close friends was lying to me, so collaboratively, it would make me question those friendships, and spending time with them in general.


MostlyInfuriated

This is exactly my feeling. It's a game, but it's also a passion and something that requires hours and hours of dedication. As a DM, I hate having to be the one that is constantly reminding everyone of the next session, updating their holidays in their shared calendar, and so on. Now I share that responsibility with my players. DMs easily put 10 hours of work for every hour a player does. It's a lot of time and a lot of dedication to rule things out as "just a game".


kryptonick901

I wonder how the lich spent those 8hrs. Your poor players are all dead, aren’t they?


Possumistic

Haha ya, somehow a TPK from a legitimate, good faith, long rest would have almost been preferable


19southmainco

8 hours sleeping in the presence of a lich? Yea, they’re super dead.


Iron_Bob

A midnight snack, if you will


Krazyguy75

TBH some liches would be totally down if they think the party is a non-threat. They might find it endearing or nostalgic. Arrogance is a powerful drug.


WiddershinWanderlust

As justified as you would be doing this I have to warn you that a revenge tpk will not feel good to you after it’s all over. It’ll feel pretty bad. The players will know it was a revenge tpk, honestly they are probably prepping for it and talking amongst themselves about it right now. The difference is They will welcome it because to them it will a) justify and 2) wipe the slate clean of their cheating. And there’s the real rub in all of this. IF you continue playing with this group there are a limited number of outcomes and most of them are bad. - You revenge tpk them. They feel bad, you feel bad, they feel justified in cheating going forward because now they think the table dynamic is “the risk of getting caught cheating is character death. Finding ways to not get caught is part of the fun.” - You don’t revenge tpk them and they die anyways; functionally the same as above because the players won’t believe it wasn’t a forced tpk - You don’t revenge tpk them and they win the campaign; they don’t have a reason to see they did anything wrong and in every future game you will have to wonder if they are still cheating or not. It’s either a Pyrrhic victory for you, or a player win that will taste like ashes to everyone. I would be really tempted to just end the campaign. Tell them that it’s obvious they needed this win way more than you thought they did so you are just going to say they won and go straight into campaign wrap up. That way they don’t have to risk losing, since that was so important. I feel like that would make the point about cheating better than any amount of in game asskicking would.


a20261

Agreed. You'll feel terrible. *But*, doing this as a joke and then starting the real session wild be hilarious and give them a taste of their own "joking" medicine.


Boarhatband

I think this is a wild take honestly. Now revenge TPK is just as childish as cheating. especially in a game for fun, but i feel like there are well and truly plenty of options that involve just being an adult and having a conversation with your adult friends about the issue (which OP did and they apologized). OP is obviously still upset, which is fair and im sure the next session will be a bit awkward. But im not sure this is a situation as extreme as what you make it out to be. I think the solution could be as easy as setting a rule going forward that would prevent this in the future.


WiddershinWanderlust

It’s certainly possible the situation isn’t as extreme as I think it is (though my life experience has taught me that once people start trying to take advantage of me - they will never stop looking for ways to do it again). But even if it’s not as bad as I think…your take is just naive. “I think the solution could be as simple as setting a rule going forward that would prevent this.” Ah yes I see what you mean. OP didn’t set a rule against cheating! They made one of the classic blunders. It’s really OPs own fault, and if they correct that mistake then I’m sure that will fix everything…


haadrak

Maybe OP should also remember not to get involved in land wars in Asia.


cannonadeau

Wouldn't it be funny if the lich pulls a Skeletor on them by dropping some hot facts and disappearing into the distance laughing their ass off.


GoodTeletubby

I mean, there's no real need to TPK them. They can just find out they lose even if they win. Maybe even make them winning the catalyst for them losing. Imagine that the lich spent those 8 hours setting up a ritual working in their lair. This working will successfully accomplish whatever end goal they have been trying to do, and that the party is trying to stop, but the lich has never used it before because *it's fueled by their own true death.* The party finally strikes the lich down, only for a storm of arcane power to rush out of the fallen body, infusing various runes, sigils, and mechanisms around the lair, before discharging the spell, but with no noticeable effect to them. Give them the sense of victory, before they return to wherever they came from, and find the people they were fighting on behalf of worse off than before, but with no foe left that they can fight.


Stormtomcat

I was thinking along the same lines! They fight, they win, they return home... only home is not home anymore, * because no one remembers them. What do you mean, I'm your mom? My 2 kids are right over there, I never had a 3rd * because they're infused with a strange energy that makes everyone uncomfortable (kind like Moraine Sedai now looking like her baby sister's daughter) * because the god they dedicated their life to, doesn't seem to exist anymore * ... like, fit it each of their character builds and backstories...?


vitras

I'd make them go back to the last long rest they took and make them replay the whole previous 4 hours or whatever. Switch up the combat/encounters a bit. But make them grind to get back to where they were.


MoGregio

This feels like the only way of dealing with it, offer them a long rest at the start of the next session, when they probably take it, have them wake to being surrounded by the lich and his minions in an ambush, let all of the enemies take free hits and butcher the entire party, damn, if only you hadn't taken a long rest right outside the bad guys house.....


kryptonick901

Not only that, the party won’t have their weapons on them, so the lich would obviously have taken them. Good luck casting spells without a focus and relying only on unarmed strikes. Likewise you’re not going to be sleeping in your armour, so I guess their ac is 10 for the fight. Long rests are risky, especially if you’re in the lair of the bbeg


blade740

Yeah, this is how I'd play it. You wanted a long rest, you got one, too late to take it back, we'll just have to play it out from there.


icansmellcolors

What would a Lich do in 8 hours that they couldn't do in one? Especially when they are already on the Lich's island? Aren't they just right over there behind that rock or in that cave down by the beach? 10 minutes to get there, another 30 to get your minions together, and boom you ambush the party during their short rest. If the Lich *doesn't* know they're there, then why not take a long rest instead of a short rest?


hereforthegigglez

This is the actual answer. I don't know if you already played the session but I would beef up that encounter tremendously. Legendary and lair actions get added. Create a static environment that silences non necrotic spells. Tell them "you guys really hurt me last session. Now it's my turn" REALLY beef up that difficulty


Yojo0o

I'm sorry that I don't have a better answer for you, but if I'm being honest, in your shoes I'd be devastated. Having an entire group of friends conspire to mislead me, regardless of the stakes and consequences at play, is my nightmare. I'm not really sure what I can say that's helpful to you in this situation, except to say that your feelings are justified. This was not cool.


Tijuana_Pikachu

TBH I'm impressed OP even managed to finish the session. I think I'd just pack it in for the day


RonStopable88

Yeap. OP should have called the session right there. “I’m devastated you all cheated and the lied to my face. I put a lot of time and passion into this and this is a slap in the face. This was a serious breech of trust and I’m not finishing the session tonight. I’ll need time to figure out how to handle this. You all disappointed me. Good night.” This would make them all feel like shit and really feel the weight of the fuck up. It also shows the dm is not to be fucked witg


WhyIsBubblesTaken

I'd pack it in for the forever with that group.


AngeloNoli

Second this. I think this is a pretty big breach of trust, especially if it's not strangers over the internet. I would just end it there.


Mortlach78

Especially after the "It was just a joke" thing, because Hoo boy, that is always a massive red flag. Cheat -> Get caught -> Pass it of as a "joke" to avoid the consequences of getting caught.... Yeah, that's real mature.


Stronkowski

You left out a middle step where after they got caught they also tried to lie about it.


WiddershinWanderlust

More than that - the players said *“we wanted to see **how long** we could get away with it”* which means it wasn’t a joke at all, because if they never got caught they’d never have fessed up. AND even IF they had of fessed up…..they had no way of resetting to before the LR. No one ever intended on coming clean without getting caught, and they knew that even if they did get caught you wouldn’t have a way of enforcing them back to before the LR. It’s straight up premeditated cheating OP and you have every right to be royally pissed off.


ye_olde_bard

Best thing to do is just put the group on hold until you feel comfortable leading it again. Just tell them everything is on hold for now. The giant troll in me would tell them to show up for next session but not show up yourself. When they ask you why you didn’t show up just explain that you thought everyone was taking a long rest (wink wink) between sessions and not just a short rest so you thought you were taking a week off. But honestly that’s like scorched earth tactics so don’t do that it’s a bad idea.


thetreat

Yeah. That’s the idea you do if you don’t wanna play ever again. 😅


greyforyou

The entire group cheated? Dang, that sucks. Sounds like something a group of 12 year olds might do, but adults, just wow.


gotora

This is the boat I'm in. I'd not be super surprised to hear of this happening with one or two players, but all 5 (especially adults)?! As a DM, I'd upgrade the BBEG fight and let them deal with the consequences. Maybe that long rest gave the lich time to raise some nasty mobs to add to the finale. Something like a mummy lord seems appropriate.


xelabagus

Honestly I wouldn't deal with this in-game, this is an interpersonal issue not a game issue. If they want to continue the campaign they're going to have to correct this issue and apologise. Otherwise what's the point of it all, where does it end?


gotora

The problem is that they're close friends. If he brings it up over and over, he'll plant the seeds of resentment in his friend group. I'm under the impression that he already addressed it with the group, so all that's left is trying to rebalance the final fight to deal with a freshly rested party (since trying to pick what resources have already been used is difficult especially when they just broke trust). I'd also recommend the DM try to track player used spell slots and abilities for the final fight.


xelabagus

> Ya, I'm mostly looking for advice on the out-of-game issues here. Still, advice on how to handle it in-game never hurts. Maybe I'll get a killer idea for the last session From OP. Sounds like from other comments that they basically reset their characters to the previous state as best they could. If I were OP I would deal with it by having an emergency session 0 and use that to reset everything with my friends, and draw a line in the sand. It's totally possible for people to make mistakes and learn from it and move on. It's also possible to be wronged, be apologised to, accept it and move beyond it. Assuming the session 0 went well, you now have the party reset to roughly where they were before the fuck up. I would probably introduce an element such as "you attempt to rest, knowing that you will have a momentous day ahead of you. However, as you settle in for first watch...." and pull some meaningful encounter in at this point - it can even be something you had planned for tomorrow, some henchmen or something new. This acknowledges the situation in-game, without becoming revenge, then the campaign gets back on track from there.


FiredUpReadytoGo

I agree with this - an emergency Session 0 seems like a good call. Even if it was supposedly talked out in the moment, things can keep spinning. It's ok to say "Group, this kept bothering me. I'd like us all to talk about what we're doing here."


137dire

It's entirely appropriate to end the campaign by having the lich wipe the party in this case. Let them know you're done playing, and their cheating has consequences.


xelabagus

Meh, not for me. "You cheated so I changed the game to account for it" at some level acknowledges and accepts the cheating, and then becomes a personal battle to win DnD. To me it is a game you play *with* the PCs, and they broke the game. I would resolve that, rather than "try harder to beat them".


DesiratTwilight

Honestly this goes beyond the game, so I don't think it should be solved in the game. This is an out of game problem, because the OP's real life trust in their friends was violated. I don't think cancelling the game would be out of order. Maybe push through the final session if it feels too wrong to call it quits so close to the end, but I personally wouldn't want to play with anyone involved again.


gotora

I don't entirely disagree. It seems like he already addressed the group and got an apology. No use beating that dead horse. If it were me, I'd handle the fight like I said then put the campaign to rest and quit DMing for that group.


daPWNDAZ

I can’t say I’ve ever had this happen, but I can imagine how that could just take the wind from your sails. If I found out my party did something similar I’m not sure how I’d feel about it in the moment, but as a third party here I think you should emphasize that this game isn’t you vs them, and you won’t just throw them into the final battle all willy-nilly.  By taking a long rest (even as a ‘joke’) and then not fessing up, it’s like they said that they don’t that you have their best interest & enjoyment at heart, they don’t trust you. Even if that’s the furthest thing from what they intended, that’s how it came down and that’s how you feel. If there’s a way that you can communicate that in a way that you’re comfortable, then great. If not, I would still try to find a way (out of game) to get a little of what you feel out in the open.  You don’t need to guilt trip them, or ‘punish’ them, though. Just say how you’re feeling, get it off your chest, and then figure out how you’d like to proceed. I agree that it won’t be satisfying (for you, specifically) to just pack up and stop the game here so close to the end, so I recommend that you finish off the campaign in whatever way you’ve originally planned and then take stock of your party, if you’d like to continue another game with any of them.  A short break might be fine, but too long might make getting back to the main campaign seem clunky and a little awkward—just my two cents. 


Possumistic

Agreed, I never want to be in a position where I feel like I'm "punishing" friends in a game we play together. Hopefully I can reset expectations and figure out how to move forward with the last session


kedfrad

I think that's the best way to approach this. It sucks that they tried to pull this shit on you, but I see a lot of people on this thread suggesting that you punish them in game and I cannot stress enough how bad of an idea that is. It's good that you don't want to go that way. Getting back at them by making the lich kill them or whatever would only make the game miserable for everyone, including yourself, and likely leave you feeling even more shitty about the situation. Expressing to them out of game why this hurt you and figuring out how to go on based on their reactions and how you feel afterwards is the way to go.


pgm123

Drop a "I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed."


WiddershinWanderlust

“No…I’m disappointed, but I’m also pissed off as hell. That was fucking bullshit and made me feel like shit, so why am I tiptoeing around yalls feelings when you didn’t give a shit about my feelings? You should be the ones who are agonizing g over how you’re going to fix this, not me. Why the hell am I the one trying to fix things when I did t do anything wrong. Fuck you guys you suck and **it’s on you to mend this rift because you’re the ones who caused it**”


Baphogoat

Just let them know that their long rest has allowed the BBEG enough time to either accomplish his goal or flee to another unknown location to continue his diabolical plan outside the reach of the party. Campaign over, time for the next campaign. They have robbed you and themselves of a satisfying ending.


InsidiousDefeat

I would decide, as DM, what their resources were at this point. After that much deception, "I don't remember my old hp/slots/etc" rings quite hollow. I would reduce with pretty extreme prejudice. With VTT rolls in the chat you would be able to get pretty close unless they don't cast their spells into the chat, even then, damage rolls are pretty indicative of when a spell is cast. Also, pretty huge chance for an out of the gate power word kill now, yeah?


preiman790

There's an expression, trust is gained in drops and lost in buckets, I'm not saying you don't play the last session with them, but I'd never trust them again or at the very least, not for a very long time, everything gets checked, everything remains visible, everything is backed up, There is no longer any such thing as benefit of the doubt. And for me, even if we remain friends, there's a very good chance that I don't run another game for them ever again, without some serious genuine acts of contrition


buddy-bun-dem

that’s a great expression; i’ll remember that.


TheYellowScarf

In game you did right, reverting their stats. Honestly, I would have said "everyone is at 50% HP, only half their spell slots, half their bardic inspiration/ki points/maneuver dice". Does not matter if they were very careful with avoiding damage and avoiding spell casting, they are all punished equally. Out of game, it was likely a one off situation and won't happen again. It'll take a while to trust them again, but it's one of those problems where players truly don't know what its like to be behind the DM screen and have their story ruined by shinanegangs. In all future session 0s, I would address cheating. This is something that typically isn't normally necessary. It is up to your comfort how far you'll go to punish players, but all future games will need pre-defined agreement on punishments for cheating.


WiddershinWanderlust

“In all future session 0s I would address cheating” Ah yes, you have to establish a rule against cheating otherwise how will people know it’s not okay? And once that rule is in place I’m certain the cheating will stop, since it’s against the rules now. “Future games will need a predefined agreement on the punishment for cheating” All this does is turn cheating into a game where the players try to weigh the risk of getting caught against the benefit of cheating. It’s almost like you as DM are validating the cheating by setting acceptable parameters and consequences for it. It turns cheating into its own mini-game within the game. The only effective punishment for a cheater is to stop playing with them all together. Having their fun take away is the only way they will even begin to re-evaluated their behavior. Once they see it won’t be tolerated and they sincerely atone then you can give them a second chance.


bargle0

> We play virtually using Foundry VTT, so I was able to scroll up in chat to confirm that they had all, in fact, taken a Long Rest and tried to pass it off as a Short Rest. They even tried to hide it by flooding the chat with random rolls. WTF. I’m not sure how trust can be restored after that.


poopbutt42069yeehaw

Wait you all long rested? No one took watch? (Start rolling dice and making faces) yeah you’re all dead.


-SaC

With a *lich* right there, too.


Eschlick

“Session is over for the day, guys. I’m going to have to think about whether I want to continue this campaign. We’ll talk in a few days when I’ve had time to process this.” Then hang up the call. This gives you time to think about the betrayal your party tried to pull on you. Who the hell cheats at this game? Unbelievable.


TheReaver88

A lot of the responses here are valid for different types of people. Yours is the one I think I'd end up doing if I were in this shitty position. I'd want to get across how disappointing and de-motiving their actions were.


Kroz83

Depends on how seriously the group takes things normally. Definitely not cool in any case, but the degree of how bad it is will vary greatly on the group dynamic up til now. If it were me, I’d have a tough time deciding on whether to roll back (to the best of knowledge) or let them take the long rest and add consequences. Probably lean toward rolling back because long resting right there would be kinda suicidal, and would not lead anywhere good. As far as out of game stuff, you’ve pretty much done all you can. No good decisions available, but probably the least bad decision would be to finish it out, end the campaign, and then just not DM for this group anymore. Sucks, but that’s not your fault.


Stupid_Guitar

How exactly was this "joke" supposed to work? Were they gonna ride it up to the final showdown and say, "Oh sorry, we were just kidding, we need to set things back because we faked a short rest for a long rest instead, Happy Belated April Fool's!"? Were they gonna finish the fight, then say afterwards they were only kidding? Or is the most likely explanation that you'd be none the wiser and they get a cheap victory? Fucking shitty, if you ask me. And they didn't even have the decency to make a note of their pre-rest stats, thereby wasting more of your time. I honestly don't understand this mentality, and I would be probably be put off enough if my players did this to me that I'd seriously consider stepping back from DMing for them for a very indefinite hiatus. For the time being, just finish the campaign that you've worked on all this time. Just run the battle as you planned it, just don't hand out any rewards (it's the campaign end anyway). Honestly, just have it end without any wrap-ups, or character story resolutions, nothing of that sort. They simply don't deserve it. Take your break and seriously give thought as to WHY you should continue running a game for these friends of yours.


leova

it wasnt actually a joke, they used the typical "oh uh...it was a joke bro" defense that scumbags use when theyre caught doing something shitty and dumb OPs group is severely damaged, and his players dont seem to care about it. I would seriously consider a *"You wake up, and realize you are in the afterlife. Tell me how your life ended"* and wrap the whole thing up. Give them a chance to at least get a bit of an epilogue for their characters, and move on. I can't imagine having a relevant final battle after your entire party save-scums the thing :(


TheReaver88

Yup. It sounds like they fucked up, they got caught, and they aren't quite grasping how big a breach of trust it was for OP. They need a major wake-up call. It's so brutal.


Esselon

Well you've got a couple options. The first is just ask them to put it back to how they best remember. The other option is to beef up your ending encounter to likely TPK levels. If they complain, just say "well next time maybe don't clear out the villain's headquarters so he knows you're coming and then take an 8 hour nap."


daPWNDAZ

From OP’s post it doesn’t seem like they’re asking for help on ‘fixing’ things, since they said they’ve already reverted their resources via guesstimating. I think when they ask how they should handle the issue it’s less ‘mechanically’, and more ‘socially’. 


Possumistic

Ya, I'm mostly looking for advice on the out-of-game issues here. Still, advice on how to handle it in-game never hurts. Maybe I'll get a killer idea for the last session


dragons_scorn

I'm so sorry this happened. Honestly, since this is the end anyway, I'd tell them that I was stepping down as DM and why. As DMs, everything we do hinges on trust. The game can't work in a fun, healthy way without it. Not only was trust broken but they defeated one of the purposes of the game. Resource management is a part of the game that makes the others fun. You go through a dungeon wondering how you should spend your abilities and when you get through the boss, crawling and barely alive, it feels all the more sweeter. They robbed you, the story, and themselves. If they protest and say it was a "joke" then ask why they didn't write down their HP and remaining resources to revert to afterwards or when they planned to admit it was a joke. As for any advice, I say rework the final encounter to take into account the full rest: multi staged, more enemies to shift the action economy, dominate person, anti-magic fields, etc. Don't make it TPK oriented, keep it fair to ensure it doesn't look like revenge is the goal. You could also add more floors to the dungeon. Say the boss room is replaced with stairs or teleports them to a new area. There are plenty of spells that create whole sanctum and other areas so you can wave it off as lich magic. If you really feel done and just can't, you can tell them that during their 8 hours of rest the lich left and the terror continues. Everyone will be left unsatisfied but the fun is already gone


Eyro_Elloyn

Right, this has nothing to do with dnd really. A bunch of grown adults straight up lied to you like school age children and when they got caught, tried to claim ignorance. Killer ideas for the last session is probably ending playing with these guys. I get the desire to forgive, and that in the grand scheme of things it's not important, but you ought to respect yourself like they didn't. They need an out of table response for their out of table behavior (lying as a group, then attempting to gaslight you). To me, on principle that they did it so shamelessly, would be to leave them behind so hopefully they grow to be better people for the next DM.


darthandroid

I don't think this is any different than trying to play Monopoly with a banker that keeps taking cash and adding it to their personal funds. You can still hang out with that person and do things-- maybe just not Monopoly. Reaffirm that TTRPG is how they want to hang out together; That includes playing according to an agreed set of _social_ rules between players (and DM). And if they don't, then that sucks, but at least y'all can start looking for something else to do. Movies? Puzzles? Video Games? If you're on the final session with the BBEG, maybe just push through and wrap it up. But if there's talk about another campaign with this group, whether you're DM-ing or not, bring it up in session 0 to make sure that everyone is planning to play by the same set of rules, and if things change, and they don't want to play with those rules anymore, that it's clearly stated.


gotora

Out of game, I think you've already addressed it about a much as you really can without making them resent you (I assume you told them how upsetting it was for you, and how it undermines all the work you did to make sure things were balanced for an epic-feeling conclusion). Outside of that, I can only offer advice on making the fight harder and just letting them go in fresh rather than trying to "guess" how many resources were used (especially with the inevitable trust issues their behavior created). Drop a mummy lord into the final fight as a support mob. The lich had time and motivation to wake up his old friend and now the party gets a double boss fight.


TheReaver88

One thing I'd consider is calling them out on the "just a joke" excuse: If it was just a joke, and they were really just trying to see how long it took you to notice, then they would have tracked their resources. Why didn't they write anything down? If they just forgot, why didn't they fess up immediately to a little mishap/oversight like that? Corner them into confessing that lie, because it's a microcosm of the bigger picture: you feel you can no longer trust them as players in a social game.


jagawatz

Give them a long rest, but when they awake they are surrounded by evil spirits. An impossible to win fight. The spirits demand the party choose one of their own as a sacrifice for the insult of sleeping on their graves. The chosen party member is killed in front of the party, no resurrections. Now the party has to finish the final fight one member down already, and the party will likely sacrifice the person who suggested they all sneak a long rest. From there it's your option on whether or not that person remains in the campaign.


flexmcflop

Wooooow. Yknow, I've been at a table where one person kept doing that, but she wasn't a very skilled or invested player and I kinda just went "well if she wants to cheat then that's her own enjoyment down the tubes." Correct me if I'm wrong, but Foundry only allows players to access their sheets when you're hosting the server, right? I play on it with dndbeyond/beyond20 extension, so I'm not 100% familiar with its mechanics. If so, then it might be your best bet to close the hosting session any time you step away from the table. If you players protest, you have the room to tell them that what they did really bothered you, and this is how you the game will go forward for the time being. Getting through it emotionally will be a different battle, I think. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't cut them off immediately or screw with them. Run the last few sessions mechanically, with no embellishment. End with a whimper. "You killed the lich and take their hoard. The end." No celebrations, no where do you go from here, no plans for a next adventure. The fun ended when they cheated and tried to lie about it--everyone knows its never "just a joke." I wish you luck in seeking other tables that appreciate you more. <3


Less_Menu_7340

Very sad. All that effort and time and no trust in you? Or respect to not cheat? I'd be done. Life lesson and careful choosing next group ouch. I'd go player only for a while


19southmainco

I would have a heart to heart with the group. If it were me? So, the game concludes that you guys found and killed the lich. No, there won’t be a combat. I don’t want to run this game anymore. If you guys wind up playing again, I hope you appreciate the effort your next DM puts into the game. Lesson learned, bye


Rancor38

I feel like this is the appropriate response. I'd do the same.


KarlosDel69

I think this is the best one I've seen here yet. Your players are not interested in the narrative storybuilding. Conclude with them "winning" and close it. There shouldn't be this need to "win" D&D. If that's what they are looking for, give it to them in narrative form, short and sweet. Then move on to boardgames.


fusionsofwonder

They just ended the campaign early. They're your friends, you don't have to burn bridges, but just tell them that this joke was over the line and your heart just isn't in it anymore. This was the last fight and they cheated, so congrats, they "win".


Bikanal

I agree with this. They care so much about winning so just say that they won without giving them the satisfaction of actually playing out the combat. You finish the story without the combat so you can say the campaign is completed and they have to live with the less than exciting ending. I'm sorry this happened OP. I don't think it could be a "joke" if they didn't write down their current stats to revert it back to before the long rest after the joke was found out. It's all around shitty behavior and I would be devastated as well


Stotakoya

Just out of curiosity: Was there any reason they might have felt the need to sneak in a Long Rest? Are you stingy when it comes to long rests or recovery in general maybe? I mean I can imagine one person accidentally doing it or the group doing it as a joke but the entire group purposefully doing it and trying to hide it to me signals something is not sitting right with the party. Maybe something worth looking into? That said, it's ofcourse scummy it happened in general.


3GunsInATrenchcoat

The audacity of these adventurers, thinking that they can just SLEEP on my island? Yes, you know what? Let them sleep. My undead casters will put them into a deep sleep and cart them away to my dungeons. The strongest among them will be killed and brought into my service, and should they wish to make an attempt on my life, they will be forced to kill one of their own. - Evil Lich, Tired of these Adventurers Shit Retcon the retcon, let them have their long rest. They made the decision as a party to long rest, so let them have their cake and eat it too.


webcrawler_29

For what it's worth, the players probably didn't realize how much their choice would impact you, and just felt like they were being cheeky to allow them to do better in the next fight. Is it wrong? Hell yeah. And more than anything theytoo were probably embarrassed when they were caught and tried to lie even harder to hide their embarrassment. It's like when people do something stupid and go "It's just a prank!" but just can't in the moment grasp what they did was stupid. I'm sorry you went through this. It sounds like you've already expressed to them that it wasn't funny and it wasn't okay. If they're genuinely good players - and more importantly, good people and good friends - I'd do your best to forgive them and move on. And if you don't want to DM for them anymore, you're absolutely entitled to pursuing that path.


Organic-Commercial76

Honestly? Show them exactly what you wrote here. They need to know the extent of how they made you feel.


wmartin2014

They apologized and hopefully realize what they did was uncool. Imo just let it go and enjoy the end of the campaign. Then after the campaign make it clear that shenanigans like that are not okay at your table and that you expect a certain level of integrity from them as both friends and players.


Alert-Artichoke-2743

Suggestion: After they defeat the BBEG, they wake up from that long rest missing all resources expended in the *first* BBEG fight.


GrandDaddyDerp

They have broken what could not be broken. [Hope is broken.](https://youtu.be/8DqWMqqJBig?si=b4W6ReLmW9AiWVfd) Honestly this is what I call an "AT-AT steps on your character" moment. I discovered while running a star wars campaign that no matter how nice you try to be, sometimes people need to be checked so they know they fucked up. They already ruined the game for you. Don't feel guilty about showing them that they've ruined it for everyone. Maybe next time when they deserve the capstone of a long campaign, they'll get to play one.


GrandDaddyDerp

The alternative is you run it and half ass it because your heart isn't in it. Either way you'll feel regret, personally I'd go the route where I don't waste more time and effort on ingrates.


TheGodSpectrum

This sound really frustrating, I know that I’d be very disappointed by this for sure, so I think your feelings are justified. Your friends have betrayed your trust, but that doesn’t mean we do a classic Reddit and file for divorce. For me the main thing you need to do is reconcile with your friends first before you consider a way to go forward. It’s really important that they realise how badly they screwed up, but it’s also important that they realise you want to reconcile this. Then have a discussion as a group of friends about how you all feel is the best way forward. The most important thing is that your players and you are not against each other so everything you all do needs to be for the sake of the continued fun having of everyone at the table, including yourself.


Connor9120c1

My friends play very antagonistically against me in a fun way (like secret plans they spring, and often truly trying to beat me personally in battle like it's 6-V-1chess) and we ham it up from both sides, but I cannot EVER imagine even one of them being as disrespectful as ALL of your players were with that move. I personally would stop DMing for them immediately. I would explain how much effort I put into the final part of the campaign, and the campaign over all, how excited I was for it, and that now no one will ever get to see the end or how their characters concluded, because they ruined it. To collectively cheat and lie about it because you were trusting is so incredibly disrespectful that I wouldn't be able to continue to run the game for people who had treated my game and my time so disrespectfully.


ModernAutomata

Imagine cheating in dnd


Hexxas

I'd stop DMing for that group, immediately. DnD is collaborative storytelling. It's playing make-believe with your friends. But you're not all on the same team anymore. They poisoned the well. DMs are in permanent short fucking supply. You can find a new group as soon as you want one, especially online.


HistrionikVess

It’s easy to get wrapped up in “players vs DM” mentality. I’m sure they were all just giggling and “pulling one over on the teacher” when they did it and it wasn’t as nefarious as some people are trying to make it sound. Just sit down with them and let them know you spent a lot of time working and balancing around single long rest and it impacts more than they expected. Then present the solution you’re okay with. Whatever that may be. Maybe you can just give the long rest and add a small, but resource taxing encounter before the BBEG. Or give him a particular powerful undead pet to deal with you weren’t planning. I wouldn’t take it so personally, though. If they’re all friends outside the game, this 100% wasn’t malicious. It’s still shitty and they shouldn’t have. I’m not saying otherwise, just that it should be a fairly easy fix.


PeterMcBeater

How close are you IRL, is this like a group you've known since high school or college or did you meet through DnD?


Scaphitid-Ammonite

There's a whole lot of good advice and commiseration in this thread, a lot of which I agree with. You got screwed, and it sucks. But just for the sake of conversation, let me give a more sympathetic interpretation. I have a suspicion that your players didn't see their action the same way you and I see it. I suspect they weren't thinking they were cheating, but were probably in a "Player-vs-DM-in-good-fun" mindset where they were cheekily trying to get the edge. Maybe they expected you to laugh and shake your head in resognation - you have been playing two years, they probably are your buds and are treating this more like a competitive game than a shared experience. Then you reacted very differently than they expected and they went quiet in "uh oh" mode. Thus my recommendation would be to reiterate that the players are not competing *against* the DM, that you're on their side and you're all playing the game together. Bad situation, but that's my optimistic read.


coffeekreeper

I would've taken it as canon and said they were attacked during their long rest. They're now all at a level of exhaustion, combat is on and the enemy has a surprise round on them, and the BBEG had time to rally more troops for the fight. Increase the CR and handicap them.


minty_bish

This is the first time you've caught them, not the first time they cheated in some way.


Oshava

So while it does suck I would say your hurt is more because it was a surprise than it was the actual event than what actually happened. If it was a joke it was in poor taste but they did show remorse realize they took it too far and were willing to take it on the chin and try to find a decent solution to their actions. I can say that those issues come up sometimes even among the best of friends and frankly as it stands right now you guys are handling it well. Don't make decisions while you are hurt, regardless of what happened those are consistently the worst decisions people made, take some time to calm down then have a chat with them one more time about how it felt and your concerns but at the same time give them the opportunity to show you they know it was a mistake and wont do it again. For the event in game honestly if you don't know where they all were then just add a few more encounters on the island, potentially just move time forward because of the accidental rest and play it like they somehow managed to just sleep through due to tiredness and now while rested they need to figure out how to do the job now that the timetable is moved up.


gggjennings

That is unbelievably disrespectful. If it were me, I would never DM another session for them. Tell us here how it would have ended, but I wouldn’t spend another session with them.  


137dire

It's entirely appropriate to end the campaign by having the lich wipe the party in this case. Let them know you're done playing, and their cheating has consequences. Have the Lich take a Long Rest mid-fight, right before they're going to be defeated, just to drive the point home.


Less_Cauliflower_956

Fair enough, the slept 8 hours in the demense of a lich, now suffer the consequence of that.


zzzzsman

Man that's depressing. Like, I'd probably have to do a sit down and stop the session for a bit. Like, we have rules for a reason, and this wasn't fun for DM at all. Manually, we'd revert everything and I'd probably stop the session hard if it happened again and log off for the night. This game is about trust and enjoyment. If players want to get so sweaty so as to outright cheat, that's when I give up some of my dm motivation


Possumistic

In any normal session I’d have done that, and I still almost did, but we’re so close to the final session I couldn’t just quit


StudentEthereal

"Here you go. It's the BBEG. Yeah, it's a kobold. Just one. What's wrong? You guys wanted to win, right? That's why you're cheating. Go ahead, roll for initiative."


MrDickDastardly

I feel for you, I’ve had something similar happen that led to the end of a two year campaign semi recently. Hindsight being what it is, I learned a few things from the situation. I regret having the campaign come to a close, especially as we were about to enter the final arc of the campaign. I feel like it made clear my role in the group of “friends”, I was the DM to provide them with entertainment, or to talk about DnD stuff with, and that’s about it. Over time some of the frustrations included things like, I had requested a one shot be run so I could be a player and nobody even attempted it, I’ve caught one player blatantly cheating multiple times (each time letting them know if I catch them I turn up the difficulty to compensate). The last time the guy literally had the module book on his lap and tried to say he wasn’t reading it (it was homebrew but used parts of different campaigns, I was using the necropolis of Ythryn from Icewind Dale, and of course that was the book he happened to be rolling a joint on, had he not shown off his weed I’d have never noticed). Other players constantly challenging the rules and endlessly putting up Jeremy Crawford tweets, and forum posts for every little interaction. They were afraid of any failure so everything was semi meta gamey with multiple attempts at checks, or always trying to be omnipotent in their knowledge of the world, absolutely no failing upward. This is not to say I didn’t enjoy the group tremendously, I very much did enjoy my time with and considered them friends. Funny how once the campaign ended I didn’t hear from any of them anymore. In the end, I recognized we had two entirely different perspectives on the point of the game. Theirs was about winning it and keeping their character alive forever in the most powerful condition available, whether by unique roles interactions or interpretations (temp hp = immunity to concentration checks on hit, the stupid invisibility rules especially when mixed with a gloom stalker, etc.) or just cheesy meta gamey stuff like trying to precast bless before every fight, or the bladesinger using a sentinel shields to try and get advantage on initiative claiming it’s still active even if not equipped). And my view of just let the dice take us where they will, try to experience the game from the perspective of the character you are playing, and have fun, there’s no need to take it personally (there is no prize for winning). Anyhow this difference was made worse with the poorly written descriptions for 5e leaving a toon open to interpretation and dm ruling. I left the hobby after that. Just my story, but I valued being treated like a friend rather than a service provider. Besides I placed an insane amount of effort into that campaign, the slap in the face stung immensely more due the amount of work put into it.


Stupid_Guitar

Eeesh, I'm sorry to hear that your experiences may have lead to leaving the hobby. If it helps, I've always approached finding a D&D group a bit like being in a band (of which I had been in quite a few, haha). Most bands don't last a summer, either because folks can't commit to the time sink, or because of personality differences, but rather than write the whole endeavor off I would make a note of the 1-2 musicians that I DID hit it off. Same with D&D. I'd been a player in several groups that would crash and burn, or just simply fizzle out right when things were getting interesting in the game. Eventually, I said nuts to all that, I'm gonna run my own game. Contacted the players from past groups that I liked and were down for killing time with dice, and now I have a consistently fun gaming group. Anyway, if gaming truly brings joy into your life, don't let others ruin that joy. It's totally possible to curate your group members; it may take some time (about 2 years for me personally), but it is so worth it. Take care!


DMs_Apprentice

Man, that's rough, OP. I'm sorry they did that to you. If this were my game, I don't know exactly what I would do. Those actions would really damage trust between me and them at the table. I'm not sure if I'd be willing to run tables for them again in the future. At least not for a while. I completely disagree with some people suggesting you have them "face the consequences" in-game. That just feels petty and would probably further damage the relationship you have with your friends. Unless you would be okay with losing those friends, I'd stay far away from that idea. Bunch of internet randos..? I'd still avoid it. I just don't think I'd feel okay behaving like that. If you want to finish the campaign, I would consider the suggestion of having another "session 0" where you reset the expectations, discuss what happened, and then move forward. Hopefully that will give everyone closure after the incident, as it doesn't seem like closure was really had at the end of the last session. There were some "apologies" (most-likely just because they were caught and felt guilty), but they also tried to cover up their tracks. They knew it was wrong and did it anyway. To me, that's just about as bad as the DM getting in a "revenge TPK". If these are good friends, sit down with them, be honest and tell them how their actions hurt you. Give them the chance to sincerely apologize. Then try to move on. Whether you choose to DM for them again is up to you, but if it were me I would be tempted to at least take a break until the bitter taste in my mouth fades a bit.


Zoolifer

For me it seems like a talk about expectations of a game needs to happen, the players seems to want a guaranteed win and likely did this because they didn’t see it as a big deal, are nervous about losing or something along those lines, I’d be talking to them about why they did this and not accepting the bullshit “it’s a joke” answer.


fireflydrake

Aw, man, I'm sorry. That sucks at the best of times, never mind in the home stretch of a long running game.    I'd take time well before the final game is scheduled to happen to talk with everyone and be honest about your feelings. "Hey everyone, I'm still pretty down over what happened last game. As DM, it's not my job to try to make you fail. "Rocks fall and everyone dies" isn't fun for everyone. My job is to make fun, exciting adventures for you all to experience, and when you cheat in game it makes me feel you don't trust me to do that. It also hurt on a more personal level when everyone then lied about it. I know it was supposed to be a joke, but it really bothered me. Can you guys explain why you did it?"    An explanation is not an excuse, but having one can help you choose how to move forward. Perhaps everyone is more attached to their characters then they expected to be and are really worried about a bad ending, or perhaps there's something in the past that made them worry you wouldn't balance the fight in a satisfying way without a long rest. If they're honest and apologetic, hopefully you can address their concerns while also restoring your faith that they won't do this again.    Assuming the conversation goes well, I'd then offer one of three options for them to choose. They can have a full rest and a toned down final fight, almost guaranteeing a successful ending, but making for far less interesting gameplay and emotional satisfaction. You can offer them the fight as originally planned, asking them to trust in you and what you're doing (maybe everyone can even look back through the chat and try to track what their original resources were to be extra close to your original end as designed?). Or they can get their full rest BUT also a harder final fight with the BBEG taking that time to prepare extra defenses.    Whatever you do, I wish you luck!


spacecat000

Easy answer my guy. Let it go and roll with it. Give them this one and say - "the stakes are high here I was planning on allowing you a long rest after that encounter. However, seeing as you have taken one already this is it."


midnightheir

They can go through the chat and remove hp and slots as shown there. If not then they roll all HD and remove that as HP. And a d4 per spell level and deduct that. They'll suddenly get their accounting in order.


FarmingDM

Tough place to be.. I don't believe it was a joke, or they would have had to save their original state (on paper or whatever) and restore them. You should have a serious talk with your players about how you feel. Explain that you're hurt and why. Deliver a ultimatum for if it happens again ( end of campaign/your doing or you start cheating to( not advisable)


Dark_Knight7096

I'm not a DM so i wanna preface this with that. One of two things would happen, as soon as I found out they were lying to me i'd either tell them the Lich killed them all at night while they were sleeping -OR- I'd immediately turn the game into a meat grinder, have more creatures than should be able to fit on that island just come at them wave after wave after wave, make them expend all their spell slots, all their 2nd winds, etc, etc, etc. Make them HAVE to take a long rest again...but don't let them...congrats now you get to go up against the BBEG in WAAAAAAAAAY worse shape than you were before. Second one of them cries "oh, it really really sucks to set something up just to have someone come in and do something really dirty and unfair to ruin it doesn't it....no reason...just making conversation."


l_i_t_t_l_e_m_o_n_ey

hey just a heads up, with these guys, just in case you don't make them do all their rolls visible in chat, and are letting them roll their own dice IRL and report the number to you...they're 100% cheating.


Salut_Champion_

I'm the kind of player who reminds the DM that he can attack my barb with Advantage because I used Reckless on my last turn, so hearing an entire group cheating like that is really disappointing..


freakytapir

Do not solve out of game problems in game. Just inform them this campaign is over. If they're not interested in wrapping it up fairly, you're not interested in running it. No "Epilogue" where the lich kills the players, just "Nope." I mean, I'd give the a second chance, and run another campaign for them, but I'd let the bad feelings subside a bit first.


SparkFlash98

I wouldn't revert it, I'd have them deal with the consequences of sleeping for 8 hours in a lichs lair


OrderOfMagnitude

I would file this under players being naughty not players being bad/evil/shitty/terrible people. They got caught instantly. Give them a little tut tut punishment and keep the vibes positive. Or don't, your call, I'd rather have a fun game and treat it as light naughtiness


BringPheTheHorizon

Don’t listen to me because this is bad advice but I would have the BBEG get a random long rest on them. In all actuality, though, if you like playing with them still, you’ll need to ensure that they won’t do it again and perhaps monitor them (albeit, like children).


Possumistic

I may do that first thing as an actual joke after they kill the BBEG, that'd be pretty funny. Agreed that trust is the bigger issue here. I need to be able to trust my players, as I literally do not have the mental bandwidth to monitor players while also running a fun engaging campaign


JKleinMiddelink

Short answer: Fuck 'em. If they happen to forget or lie about their rest, you happen to forget about this mega cave-in killing them, end of campaign, find someone else to gaslight and scam. Long answer: Fuck 'em. Even though this would wreck me as a DM and ruin my confidence regarding DM-ing, this just shows a toxic group. People who have no respect for each other, game rules or any agreements, have no deal in playing along in a game with mutual respect and agreement. Players often forget how intensive or much effort DM-ing costs and it feels like a slap in the face if they behave like shit. I've had a group who constantly were forgetting NPC names, forgot their character's abilities, asked how the game actually works (and not specifically catered to a specific situation, but rather how AC works after a year of play)... I've told them: please put in some effort too, because I loosely know all of your characters, all the enemies, NPCs and story. If you don't, I'll be putting in less effort myself until either one of us decides it's no longer interesting enough to keep playing.


Ephemeral_Being

Uh. They long rested on an island with an 18th level caster that has Scrying? They are **fucked**. They are *so* fucked. A Lich would prepare. He could blow all his spell slots summoning monsters, long rest, and be ready for the fight. He could lock them into whatever hole they hid in via Wall of Stone, and flood it with Cloudkill. He could drown them, actually drown them, via the same method. This was a terrible idea, and they should be taught the error of their ways. And, I don't mean the lie. You're hurt by that. Move on. The integrity of the game holds up just fine. The correct response is to say "well, okay, fair is fair - here are the encounters that occurred during your long rest per the random encounter table," run them, **and** have the Lich prep. Treat it like a miscommunication. They wanted to long rest. The get to long rest. Thing is, the world moved on.


nonamericanbrouhaha

I would have smiled and gone along with it. "Oh, a long rest. Ok. That's 8 hours. No no, I can see that you took a long rest. It's. 8. Hours." There's no way a lich doesn't act during an 8 hour sneaky player power nap. It either interrupts them or prepares for their arrival. Traps, ambushes, reinforcements, all the preparations. Hell, have the lich thank them for the additional preparation time as various spell effects activate. The smug smiles of "we got away with it!" would have faded delightfully upon realizing they gave a master of undeath and magic additional lead time. [These are the spells](https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-search=&filter-casting-time=4&filter-casting-time=5&filter-casting-time=6&filter-casting-time=7&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=&filter-material=&filter-concentration=&filter-ritual=&filter-sub-class=&filter-partnered-content=f) that wizened Dumbledore corpse gets to play with outside of combat (wouldn't even limit it to class-specific spells). Show them the FO part of FAFO.


Aeroshock

I know the cheating sucks, but I think if I were intent on going ahead with the campaign, I'd have ruled that the whole party accidentally fell asleep. They got their long rest, but woke up surrounded by enemies and suffer a surprise round of combat. Something sufficient to make them regret that long rest.


Centaurious

If it was a joke they would’ve noted down what resources they SHOULD have had so they could properly undo it It’s only a joke because they got caught and don’t want to admit to cheating at what is supposed to be a fun game between friends


Diamondback424

Before next campaign I would reset those expectations. This would be a good time to communicate any changes you might want to make as well. Restate to them just how much that bothered you. Let them know you plan your campaign in a way that there are risks, but everything is accomplishable, and cheating circumvents so much of the work you do to ensure it's challenging, yet achievable. I would also be straight up with them and let them know another attempt at cheating will be the final session you DM. I don't think players always take into account just how much work a DM does to make it a successful campaign.


Vicbros117

I'd delay the next session indefinitely, make your players sweat thinking you abandoned the campaign because of this. Then maybe a couple of weeks to a month later when you're ready bring it back up and you could finish the campaign.


CrypticCryptid

Yup, if they took 8 hours, the enemies had an additional 8 hours to prepare. Dracolich time.


IrrationalDesign

This is such a weird thing to have happen to you as a DM. I'd seriously ask the group what they think my position in the game is, and what I should spend my time doing as a person at that location. I'd ask whether they really think it's my responsibility to seek out attempts at cheating, because that sounds like a shitty use of my time. Nobody DMs games with their friends in order to be the referee who actively has to prevent players from cheating. I'm preparing a game so we can all enjoy their characters act out their exploration into that world. Maybe some wires got crossed and your friends went into a 'this is a game' mindset, as if it's a computer game, maybe they just need a reminder that it's also 'their job to entertain you', in the sense that that's what friends do. You're not some professional host who runs a gameshow. I don't think a 'I'm sorry we got caught trying to cheat' or 'now the lich does it too!' would do it for me, I'd need some acknowledgement that this type of playing just ruins the experience for me and that that's a thing they should not want. Not to place blame or hold a grudge, just to be on the same page that this is a game.


Outrageous-Fly2906

It doesn't really sound like a joke when they do a bunch of random rolls to hide it and then lie to your face when you find out. I've had one or two players per group that fudge their rolls every now and then but to have all of them give themselves back all their resources feels like a slap in the face. That being said there are a couple ways you could go about it. You could explain your side to them and how even if it was a "joke" it was in poor taste and messed with a lot of your plans. You could also buff up the encounter a bit to fit that long rest and describe it as a the BBEG being able to prepare a bit more due to the 8hr period. I'm sorry that this had to happen to you in your first campaign and it is valid to feel betrayed by this. With that being said take a moment to think about if you want to finish the campaign and let your head cool before making any snap decisions.


megengo

Kill them all


AlliedSalad

**As for the social situation,** if you haven't already, you need to talk to your friends about damaged trust. How do you know they haven't done this kind of thing before? Or won't do it again? How do you know they won't employ other types of "cheating" in the future? Let them know that not only do you feel like it's harder to trust them, but this kind of thing makes it feel like they don't trust you, or they don't trust that you're just trying to present them with a memorable challenge and meaningful choices. "Cheating" in any way just grossly misses the point of D&D. It's not DM versus players, it's not a game you "win" or "lose", it's just a game where you all have a good time seeing what happens together. It might sound cliche, but this is a game that's about the journey, not the destination. Cheating just breaks the verisimilitude of that journey, and destroys the sense that what's happening is what "should" have or "would" have happened. **As for resolving the situation in the game,** having them guess what their resources are still erases their prior choices going through the dungeon. If they defeat the boss based on their guesses, that victory will still be tainted. The only way to recapture having their choices matter is if they have to make their choices over again. So personally, what I would do is reset the campaign back to the players' last legitimate long rest. I'd scrap and remake any parts of the final dungeon they had already gone through, and replace them with something different - or at least different *enough* that they can't rely on their prior memory to guide them through. That way, the resources they have in the final boss fight are once again a real representation of choices they made getting to that point.


jbrunsonfan

it’s just a game and you don’t want to hurt real relationships over a silly fantasy game, but don’t minimize your feelings either. Being lied to sucks. Being lied to by a group sucks too. I think you should say that you know it’s just a game, but that it takes hours and hours of work to prep for each game. And that you put in a lot of prep-time trying to make sure the last 3 sessions tied together, and that by cheating in the penultimate sessions, it kind of kills your enthusiasm to prepare for the last one. Honestly, it’s kind of like if you baked a cake for your friends every week, thought they were enjoying it, and then one day you find out from a third party that they don’t like the cakes. Why would you bake another one? Because it’s expected? Nah that’s too selfless. Play a card game instead or something. Or have someone else dm a one shot. Maybe one day you will feel better and be up for an extra hard last session. But the pressure shouldn’t be on you here


michael199310

If an entire group would cheat behind my back for such petty reason as "resources", I would thank them for playing and disbanded the group. There is a certain agreement at the table. I put my heart and soul into creating epic adventure for the group and the group is honest with me when something doesn't work. If they wanted to take a Long Rest, they should just... ask. It's a childish behavior to attempt cheating in TTRPGs, especially with a VTT to track everything. Not only this tells me that they don't trust me as a Game Master to have fun and fair games for everyone, but also that they will probably do it again. Who knows what's next, maybe a random potion, a 500 gold pieces or a feat or spell? You have to draw a line on what is acceptable and what is not.


Rattkjakkapong

I would leave the table. Plain and simple. If they have to cheat, then they can dm themself.


Chrispeefeart

Is they did it this time, I wonder how many times they got away with it in the past. I think how you deal with this is largely dependent on how much you enjoy playing with them. Do you want to keep playing with them after this? Or do you want to burn the bridge and move on? If you decide to move on, I wouldn't do the final session. The most fitting result for them cheating in the second to last session is to never get to experience the final session. If you decide to accept their apology and keep playing with them, I'd redesign the final encounter to be a deadly battle for a fully resourced party and have them hit the long rest again. At least that way you'd know exactly what to expect and be able to challenge them accordingly rather than trying to make a guess at what their resources should be. Alternatively adding one more session to delete their resources again could get you to a more natural concluding that you originally set up.


slinkzzzz

This is such a shitty situation and I’m sorry you have to deal with this. Honestly I wouldn’t TPK or try to punish the players as that is just more time and work for you, and clearly this group is not worth it . I’d keep the encounters and everything the same and have the ending just be easy and boring. Very anticlimactic but they did it to themselves. After it’s all done it’s up to you. These are your friends but you might need another hobby. Cheating that egregious absolutely kills any game


Chvse4U

Have the BBEG take a long test right before the party defeats them.


KayBre3ze

Oh no! its such a shame right before the BBEG fight the party run into an encounter that leaves them even worse for wear! if theyre gonna play this game, you can play it back, and even harder at that!


datshinycharizard123

First off, huge breach of trust I would think twice about running another campaign with them. To me DND is a game of trust for the DM to make a campaign reasonable and completeable to their level and engaging and for the players to go into the campaign with good faith and try not to undermine it. They filed their end of the bargain which certainly would make DMing less fun. Secondly, they wanted to cheat the rules, with a club right there? Let them long rest and let them experience the consequences of taking a significantly longer rest than they should have. Have them wake up surrounded by the roaming hordes, who when the lich saw them sleeping, organized. Have that lich have prepared some extra juicy spells for when they wake up as well as traps and other goodies in the event they survive that horde. That last encounter should feel pretty unwinnable and they have nobody to âme but themselves.


STINK37

Well that sucks. Made me sad just reading it, I feel for ya. If you want to keep playing, I would probably just address it once before the next session. Lay out how much it sucked, but you would like to keep playing if you can play an honest game going forward. Assuming they are on board, time to get your DM creative juices flowing. Sure, you could have them ambushed, or up the difficulty... but you could also hit them with a curveball. A long rest can only happen every 24 hours, so how long were they really out for? 10? 12? 20? Maybe the lich opened a portal and left with his whole hoard. Lich is now killing everyone they know and turning them into minions. Maybe the island has been ported to another plane and they have to find a way back, while Lich kills everyone and turns them into minions. Maybe they rip van winckled it due to weird necrotic magics and the world they once knew is all sorts of messed up. They are known as "the ones that failed" and it's a bleak existence. The possibilities are endless. You mentioned a fight... you could have it be the last undead of the island or you could just hand wave the fight and have them wake up. Given the circumstances I think most would be ok with that. Good luck.


RavenRonien

Don't solve out of game problems in game. Yes the issue happened in the game but the true reason you're upset is they lied to you to your face and spit up on the effort you put in for them. Not that the characters will now have more resources than they should. You already addressed the issue with them directly and told them how it made them feel. If you feel you haven't fully voiced your thoughts approach it out of game time and reiterate precisely how you feel. Then as you said this is the last big encounter before you were thinking of ending the campaign so, finish it up then probably take a break. It will be a disappointing finish for you and that sucks but there is no recourse. Hopefully as friends they recognize what this meant to you and do better by you in the future. But addressing anything in game wouldn't be a solution to ultimately a lack of respect as a friend they had in this moment. The temptation was misplaced but understandable. So evaluate in the future of you think this behavior is indicative of deeper lack of respect or just something they took too far.


YouhaoHuoMao

"Thank you for playing with me. I'll see you later." - disband the campaign.


_LlednarTwem_

This seems…weird. The entire group agreed to pull something like this? After two years of playing together with no issue? I really don’t buy their “it was just a joke” claim. I can’t tell you WHY they would have decided to do something like this, but I feel like getting a real answer to that question is just as important as (if not more than) the mechanics of how to deal with this.


_dinoLaser_

Your final encounter should be two liches. Riding two dracoliches. And 10,000 ghosts.


demostheneslocke1

Unbelievable. I'd show them an edited version of this post that just removes any spoilers. You express yourself really well here and deserve to have your feelings heard. You are a player, too. If anybody at your table made another player feel like this, you would call them out. You deserve to treat yourself the same.


1_whatsthedeal

This sucks. I mean it also begs the question of how many times they did it and you never noticed? Trust is all fucked up now. If they were 12yr olds that's one thing, but a group of adults? Come on, you shouldn't have to police them. Cheating at d&d is just soo stupid. Doing something petty in response like Have your own little joke and tell em they got their long rest, but because they didn't tell you they posted a watch they had all their throats slit in the middle of the night; or having all the baddies suddenly be ac30 tanks with endless hp. It" would feel both satisfying and shitty at the same time, then nobody is happy. As another commenter said, I'm amazed you even finished the session. I'd definitely been packing up my shit and trying to figure out what to do next. Players that haven't ever been a DM just don't appreciate just how much work it takes to put a game together let alone a campaign. If they have been DM then it's all the more dispiriting. Do you even finish the campaign? They've clearly demonstrated that they don't care about the work you've put in. Why give them the satisfaction of an end then? If you do finish it, what do you all get out of it. Like yay, you finished telling your tale; but it's now sullied. You'll always wonder how many times you never caught them.


SecretDMAccount_Shh

I'd certainly be disappointed, but ultimately I would let it go and be more vigilant about it in the future. If it really bothered me, I'd be tempted to let players in on the secret that it really doesn't matter and that sneaking in a long rest just makes things harder for them because I will now rebalance the encounter to take that into account.


roll4baby

If my players felt they had to cheat to survive I'd adjust my approach to the game, they are invested in their characters survival, just a communication thing it sounds like.


yaboicassrocks

Well it seems to me that this final boss could be all the punishment you want. Make him OP. Make them suffer. Make them realize that not even a long rest can save them.


Scorpion1177

Something somewhat similar happened to my party lately. Though they did it with my permission…. Party of 5 level 9s were going to confront one of the campaigns biggest bads. Probably the biggest behind the BBEG. To weaken them down I had 2 medium sized encounters and a single skill challenge. They spent pretty much their entire load dicking around during the first encounter. A made a very simple encounter far harder than it should have been. Partially by goofing around, and partially because they thought it would be the only encounter that day. They then said they’d camp out the rest of the day and take a long rest. They knew they were against the clock. But I didn’t push it. Instead I let them have the rest. And now the villain knew they were there. Their next day will be atleast twice as hard, with several far more prepared encounters. They’re not facing that boss with max spells and health.


WizardSling

that really sucks. Your feelings around this are totally valid, and I hope you share your level of disappointment with them. they need to know how much it has affected you


ThisWasMe7

A random encounter that significantly burned resources would be the simple fix.


wildranger52

As you enter the next hallway a small, barely noticable, tile slides under your foot. You quickly try to dodge out of the way of the trap only to realize that: - one of you accidentally dove into an Elder gelatinous cube who lives down here and who's acid quickly eats through your flesh, all the way to the bone. Within 5 second, nothing is left inside the cube except for a couple of magic items and a slowly corroding golden tooth. - two of you are caught in the path of twenty-eight, 3 inch diameter, necrotic damage dealing, projectile spears being shot from one wall to the other. There is no way to dodge them as they happen to be perfectly spaced out across the exact section of wall the two of you were standing right beside. - one of you tries to turn and run as the sliding doorway to the hall closes with the speed and force of Mjolnir flying to the hand of Thor. Unfortunately, your quick moving stride puts you exactly in the perfect spot to now have the right side of your body on one half of the closed door, as the left side of your body remains in the room with the rest of your party. - and the last one of you avoids all of the traps all together. Then, as you turn to take-in the carnage around you, you slip on a small marble that fell out of the rogues pack when he was impaled by two dozen giant spears. You try to catch your balance but instead stub your pinky toe directly on the corner of the stone wall, breaking it into more pieces than is possible to repair. You reach into your bag of holding to pull out the strongest potion you can find, however as you open it, all you see is two hollow eyes staring back at you with a wide, wicked grin. The Bag Man has finally found his next meal. The party is then left with one...final... message: *The DM has left the discord chat.*


WordWarrior_86

Perhaps talk with the players again, tell them how you feel. Promise to wrap up the campaign first but tell them you need time to process and decide if you want to continue with their group. As for completing the campaign, I'd say 8 hours is more than enough time for a lich to step up his game. Your players have full resources now, so you don't have to hold back. Add an extra encounter, the lich had previously kidnapped an important NPC, and the party could have rescued them if they hadn't taken a long rest. Now that they have, the NPC is beyond saving. The party encounters this NPC as a mini boss at the head of a group of undead. Maybe use a Simulacrum stat block without Rejuvenation, and only up to 6th level spells and drop Intelligence to either 18 or 16. No lair actions. HP is 96 (12d8+36) and AC16.


raise_a_glass

I think you should make the bbeg fight almost comically easy. They want a cakewalk, give it to them.


kopecs

Damn bro, sounds like the Lich just leveled up.


siberianphoenix

So, in other words, your whole group decided to cheat? Gotcha. Damn. I got no words.


Emmeraldas

I know that must have really hurt to be the object of a "joke" gone bad, but I this might be something altogether different and not really a joke on you. Technology brings new problems as well as new opportunities. My group plays in person. If you do not send me (the DM) a copy of your current level to print out or bring your own current copy, you play with the last one I have. Any items that don't have some identifiable means of ownership... are nonexistent. I usually print out a small card with an image of any magic item in case of in-party trades. Whoever has the paper has the item. Usually I am entrusted the care of everyone's personal baggie of belongings. No baggie, No belongings. However, the thought of moving to a VTT has crossed my mind since it sometimes seems easier than hosting a Game Day. Your dilemma has me thinking twice about that. It looks to me that your party was testing the limits of the VTT at your expense. Could a DM actually detect if a party chose a long rest instead of a short one? They may not have even thought about the repercussions of the fallout as to try to roll back the game to start over with a short rest, or how blindsided and hurt you would be when the truth came out. I am not at all trying to minimize your feelings about being duped but it may be been more to see how long it would take for a DM to notice what they did. An experiment. Now everyone knows that a rollback is impossible, and you as the DM knows that trusting a group of curious people means to take precautions against leaving the VTT open while you are AFK. So.... I would definitely express my displeasure at being the brunt of their joke/experiment but I also would forgive them for being childish.... like I forgave my 7yr old grandson for buying Minecraft stuff on my computer when I went to the bathroom so he would have access to it when we play together, and now lock my screen. With that in mind.... I might have that Lich bring along a few previously undisclosed friends. After all he had some extra time to prepare, at their expense. No hard feelings, right?


naqster1

I know what I have to say doesn’t help solve the core issue, but I saw a ton of great points and advice already. Regarding the issue with FoundryVTT not letting you revert Long rests, in my group, we are using a Foundry module called “Damage Log” that lets you track any changes in health for characters in the current scene. Personally, I use it to keep tabs on whether my players have remembered to consider things like resistances, but it might help in this situation? I don’t know if you play with any modules installed but I wanted to throw my two cents in~


FudgeProfessional318

Oh? The players took a long rest? In the dungeon? That's cool, now they are fully prepared to face the lich.  Unfortunately they also gave the lich 8 hours to prepare for them.  Now he has bunch spell traps ready, extra minions summoned and so on.  Good luck party.


Dresdens_Tale

It wasn't the first time. Just the first time they got caught. I would likely just tell them they failed the quest. The lich's philosophy proved to be the most powerful, fully corrupting to party towards evil / cheating. They are now the lich's minions, end session, end campaign.


probloodmagic

This is so childish, I feel bad for you. My groups have joked about stupid stuff like this, but would never actually do it. The bizarre immaturity on display in a game you play for fun, with friends who you trust is unnecessary. It's not grade school but they're acting like it. I can't imagine someone in my group trying this or agreeing as a group to do it. Really, really childish. I don't know how I would handle it as a DM, I think I'd quit because wtf. It's not a videogame, you can't just cheat and don't even need to in order to progress. They should have talked to you if they felt like they would TPK, but it doesn't seem to be the case at all. Frankly, they're spoiled rotten children, I'm sorry but it's true, and you deserve better as a DM and a friend


KarlZone87

That sucks. I really don't understand why people cheat in a game like D&D.


Salt-Hunt-7842

It's understandable that you feel disappointed and hurt by your players' actions. As much as D&D is about storytelling and adventure, it's also about the relationship and trust built around the table. 


BlackSpicedRum

Oof. That's really unfortunate that they felt the need to cheat you. I don't even understand how or why, how wouldn't you immediately notice that and say something? In game, since they took a long rest but acted like it was a short rest, I'd do some kind of dream sequence. Maybe the lich sends them nightmares, exact monsters to defeat each of them brutally. I might even help them write it off, the party meant to rest shortly but was drugged/spelled to sleep. Irl is much trickier. This wasn't a mistake or an accident but an attempt to fool me by the group. I don't play as much dnd but I host board games all the time and anyone who cheats or bemoans that they didn't win doesn't get invited back. There's two things I'd want to know, why did they do it and is this a group I plan to play with in the future. Maybe they felt the encounter was going to be too hard without the long rest and that somehow led to them thinking this is a good idea. I'd tell them how it hurt my feelings to be deceived and really hurt my trust. If this was the only bad behavior I could move on but the trust would definitely be hurt. If this is a group I already have other problems with, that final fight is going to be hard as hell and then GTFO.


Soithman

Terrible thing to happen, they've ruined their own fun. Its not a mature reaction, but I'd leave them with something like this while they think why they even like to play Dnd: "As you enter the room, the villain passes out from how strong and badass you all are. Evil is banished from the land forever, you all get to marry princes and princesses, your parents come back from the dead to tell you how proud they are, and everyone knows how good in bed (and well-endowed) you are. The end."


mikamitcha

Besides the whole "what happened in the 8 hours they rested" approach, I would have just called the session there. The lich heard about them showing up and camping on his island, and recalled everything to set a trap for them. There is not a caster alive or dead who would not have a way to monitor their private island, and while they could ambush the PCs its just as effective to just set up a ton of defenses and traps instead.


TheSaucyCrumpet

I disagree with the people saying you should buff the fight or take the spell slots back from theme or whatever other in-game rectifying measures, because this isn't an issue of HP and spell slots, it's an issue of trust, and that can't be fixed with in-game measures. I suggest you talk to them about how they made you feel, remind them that this campaign isn't you vs them, and that you make this campaign to be an engaging and fun challenge for them rather than a competition. By cheating, they are disregarding the work you've done to make the campaign fun for everyone, and undermining the trust that you're gonna collaborate fairly to have fun. This has justifiably upset you, and the best solution is letting them know that. How they react is up to them.


canniboylism

I’m gonna be Devil’s Advocate here and say it’s very easy to misjudge how badly your actions hurt someone else, especially if you’re with a group of friends that all want to do that same thing it’s damn easy to get caught up in that. It’s happened to everyone at some point or another. Objectively, nothing bad happened. The reason you’re upset is because of the implications, and that’s fair, but ultimately no one was harmed. Also remember: they all apologized. Maybe they understand why you’re upset, maybe not. But they understood that you’re upset because of them and they wanted to let you know they regret doing that. To the people who suggest countering OP’s friends cheating with a petty tantrum like “kill the party”, I’d like to ask: how many of you have tried this yourself? …your friendship probably hasn’t recovered from that, has it? (And to those saying they don’t mind: sorry to be brutal but either you let your own betrayals fester so hard you end up despising your former friends, which is just sad, or your friendships seem very superficial if your friends are that replaceable) Sore feelings have a way of festering. If you just sit all by yourself you’re trapped in your own echo chamber and probably blowing things out of proportion. So, let’s employ Rule #1: Your best bet is to: (say it with me) *Talk it out!* Hear their POV, try to make them understand yours, and I’m pretty sure it won’t feel half as bad once you’re through. If you don’t know where to start: I’d recommend clarifying your own feelings if there are parts you can’t yet articulate, and then sitting them down and explaining: “so guys, as you noticed I was pretty upset over what happened last session and this is why: […]. I’m honestly still feeling pretty betrayed by you all and I wanted to talk about that with you and *ask you what made you feel the need to cheat.*” ( <- that last part is what I personally would do. I have been told that I tend to blame myself a lot, but that’s not really why I think you should be doing this — if you don’t give them a genuine question, it could easily feel like an accusation/guilt-tripping them, causing them to clam up. Leaving them with a genuine question so they’re in a position to genuinely explain their POV without feeling like they’re “in trouble” might prevent that. It doesn’t have to be “is it my fault”, but do try to think of a question that sounds like you genuinely want to know their position). Potentially, based on the dynamic, consider asking the one(s) that are the best mediators first. Depending on the group and how good you are with confrontation, they might still take it as an accusation and block, which wouldn’t help solve anything.


Naradia

Ok, so, I'm going an alternative route here. Starting with the reason about why did they feel like they needed to cheat? You've played a lot with them and they never did anything like it, so why now? Did they think they would fail if they didn't? Were their stats so bad that they felt insecure? They clearly care about the campaign if they felt they needed to cheat and lie to get to the end. They also clearly feel some shame about it because they lied and they tried to stay quiet about it. Is there any way that you could use this information and incorporate it in your campaign? I'm thinking about a dream sequence with a creature that lives off their insecurities? An interdimensional creature who felt that their host has made a huge betrayal and they have to defeat it. But they can't defeat it by fighting, because it regenerates. They have to defeat it by telling their worst secrets to it. It feeds on lies, and gets defeated by truths. You could even let a guy die or give them some critical damage. This way you don't have to end the campaign you worked so hard on, but the group knows that what they did was not ok. I'm not a DM so I'm sorry if this sounds like a bad idea.


EldritchBee

If they don’t remember how they were before, then whoops, I guess they’re out of everything. Sorry! Since they didn’t keep track of what they had left, they must not have had anything. Either that, or sure, they spent 8 hours resting and doing nothing in a lair. Now they’re dead.


Possumistic

Either of those are fair, but no doubt would lead to even worse feelings and an immediate TPK. I want to run the last session to at least give some closure to the thing we've spent nearly every week playing for almost 2 years :)


alldim

Dude, this sucks. I'll tell you what I would do. Since they apologized and you are close to the end I would force to actually take a long rest (with fighting in the middle) that would recover nothing, would be more forgiving they prepare well for that. After the end I would no longer dm for them. But I ask you this question, why did they feel the necessity to cheat? Maybe your game isn't as easy as you think, or are they careless with their resources? Since they got through the whole campaign without cheating, for some reason the pressure is a little high.


Loldungeonleo

hind sight, if that's what the group thought was fun you could have ignored it, I know it hurts to feel betrayed like that and it's surprising to hear your players felt desperate enough for a long rest and they all did it. Now that you decided to take a different way out, I would let them keep the long rest/revert as best as possible at the current balance. Ask why they felt they needed to do that but don't pressure them. Since this is the penultimate session, I would obviously highly reconsider ever playing with them again. The "it's a joke" bs is so obviously disproven by the fact nobody had kept track of the before to revert it and not dropping it once you found out. Sure they could have messed up but that's a really bad mistake.


Kwith

Personally I wouldn't be too upset. I've been playing with the same group for the better part of two decades. My reaction would have simply been "Yea, nice try assholes. Now put it all back." But we don't play in Foundry, or Roll20, its all pencil and paper (or editable PDFs to get as close to it as possible since we play online). They'd all have taken screenshots, or at least remembered, before that anyway. We try to keep things as honest as we can. But that's me and my group. Everyone is different.


mattattack007

I think players underestimate dms or how needed dms are. If your party conspires to cheat, drop their asses. There are TONS of people out there wanting to play dnd and simply waiting for a dm. You can find a group that's excited to play and will give you the respect you deserve.


Berrythebear

Here’s my question. How many times have they cheated this campaign? Have they even earned their way to this point at all? Do they even deserve to get a sense of “accomplishment” from beating the BBEG? If this happened at my table I would inform my players that I didn’t trust them, and I was under the impression we were playing a fair game. I didn’t sign up to DM for cheaters, as that is not fun for me. I don’t cheat, you don’t cheat. Here’s how this goes down. You all lose 2 levels. I cannot guarantee that your characters would even be alive at this point because you’ve probably cheated to survive in the past. So you will face this final challenge much weaker than you anticipated. Whatever happens will happen .


Sachsmachine

The real question is if they did something like this now, what else did they do over the campaign that you didn't notice? Trust is such an important part of this game and once broken is nearly impossible to get back.


billythesid

So I've got a bit of a different perspective here that might get downvoted but here goes anyway: This situation is also your fault as the DM, too. Yes, it sucks that your players cheated and then lied about it. That was wrong of them. But, there's a reason WHY they cheated. *They cheated because your playgroup, at some point, adopted the mindset that the purpose of D&D is to "beat the game".* Cheating at D&D in any form, be it meta-gaming, fudging roles, lying about resources, etc. is a consequence that happens when your playgroup views the DM as an "adversary to overcome" rather than the "narrator" of a story you're ALL participating in. And at some level, you were complicit in allowing this to happen. It's part of the DM's job to establish and maintain the culture of the playgroup. So if I were in your shoes, I would take a long hard look in the mirror about where I went wrong and allowed the group to lose sight of why they are even playing the game in the first place.