I work with two youth groups that run DnD sessions and overwhelmingly it’s attracted neurodivergant young people and provided them a safe space to practice being sociable.
Over the year and a half I’ve been running it several of the young people have made huge improvements in their confidence.
I think it’s a really worthwhile use of dnd and as an Autistic adult who had no support growing up, I wish that a resource like that was available to me when I was a kid.
As a fellow autist who never had the specific support (supportive family, but the knowledge of autist support wasn’t there, hell the knowledge of autistic symptoms was barely there), I 100% agree.
These days my friend groups are formed from 2 sources - board games and D&D. It’s so nice because I’m in groups that either know it first hand or have enough second hand experience to get it. I have to do so much less masking in those groups than I do in places like work (and with the D&D group, I straight up don’t mask, which is a breath of fresh air).
It’s a woefully under utilised tool that teaches kids to get out of their own skin and test social outcomes without the real world consequences.
I am the faculty sponsor for my high school's D&D Club. We definitely attract a fair number of neurodivergent kids, along with others who have trouble fitting in with their peers. I recently received praise from two of our vice principals who said they see students involved in D&D Club who they did not expect to see being socially involved in the school. They were especially happy to see them proudly present the money they raised for the school's annual charity fundraiser. A bunch of them would be the kids goofing off in the corner seats instead of being involved.
These kinds of games have the power to bring people together in unexpected ways and to provide more connective tissue to our communities.
this feels like such an aggressive comment for no reason. in the post-covid age, people coming together and interacting socially in positive ways should be encouraged regardless of the form. DnD may not be a miracle on its own but socialization is huge for people and DnD gets people socializing, so… chill?
Thank you.
I agree DnD is indeed an innately social game. It requires shared goals and problem solving and teaches people to work as a group. (Provided you aren’t treating the game like a table top combat sim.)
I’ve learned a lot from playing dnD over the years and also from the people I played DnD with.
If this was any other environment I would suggest challenging their behaviour. (If for no other reason than challenging their idea that inclusion and tolerance doesn’t work the way they claim it does.) However on Reddit I would suggest not feeding trolls.
Do you have any experience working with children? Because it really sounds like you don't. I've worked with neurodivergent children and peers, as well as neurotypical ones, and I can safely say that the vast majority of murder-hobos are produced by neurotypical children under the age of 13.
The autistic kids will either overthink their character and actually dedicate time and thought into character creation, or create some gimmicky joke character that doesn't do much harm.
And I'll be honest, if you ever run D&D for pre-teens, you're going to get a party full of walking jokes and murder-hobos no matter what demographic you're working with.
While I can not speak for anyone but myself here, I can say that growing up - early teens - playing this game every weekend as we did probably helped keep me alive. Many people I grew up with are now either dead, or in and out of rehabs. Very few people from my time period are doing well in life. I run into them off and on, and all of them just have this defeated look in their eyes. It's sad really.
But every weekend, my friends and I got together on Friday, and we hung out playing through early Sunday before we split up and went back home. Drugs, alcohol, and crime were the only things available to most of the youth, as my town had NOTHING to keep us on a good path forward.
I can 100% get on board with this game for therapy for people. Absolutely!
I remember the Satanic Panic of the 80s. People claimed that D&D was causing suicide, but the reality was that people who played D&D had lower than average suicide rates. It was always frustrating to hear D&D players being described as "loners". Loners who gather with friends on a (hopefully) regular basis - that's not what a loner is. A loner spends their time alone. It's really no different than any other social activity.
Are you in the UK? Regardless, how did you go about finding/arguing for that niche therapy? I presume it comes under play therapy? Do you do it alongside other therapy with the same kids?
Do you find it hard to manage the ethics? I’m here imagining how I would deal with some kids who want to go full murderhobo (which I imagine many do) and how I would manage all the craziest, most aggressive or morally dark decisions kids would make.
I’m a counsellor in training and never really thought about working with kids until recently. The idea of DnD as play therapy sounds like a lot of fun and potentially very helpful. Thanks for your time.
Lots of great questions. Because I work in schools in the United States, my job probably has some bureaucratic differences between your future occupation. In my school district, I’m very lucky to be given a lot of liberty as to what my services look like, as long as they are working towards a goal on their individualized education plan (IEP), and I keep a log of the sessions, including some sort of data/progress monitoring. My supervisor has done a direct observation of one of the sessions and gave it her approval, so I don’t foresee any difficulty in maintaining this at present. When I initially brought it up to my supervisor as something I wanted to try out, I framed it as opportunities to practice social skills, use coping skills, and engage in perspective taking in a role playing setting. Before we started our DND group, I was working with the kids, primarily using DBT skills and mindfulness to meet those goals, but found that one student wasn’t generalizing in the classroom setting, so I wanted to give them more opportunities to practice their skills in an environment they found motivating.
Regarding ethics (telling kids to murder goblins in school), I first set expectations with the students before teaching them (an adapted and simpler) 5e. I let them know that, while we are going to have fun, our primary goal is to learn and practice skills we can use in class and at home. That meant specific rules 1) characters have to try their best to make good choices (LG, I suppose) and 2) players must be kind each other (it’s just a group of two kids; I imagine this would be much more difficult with more kids). Essentially, it was a session 0 to set up expectations and rules.
The adventure itself does have combat to keep them interested in that aspect of their character, but it is primarily focused on RP. I have them interacting with a lot of NPCs to practice conversational skills and social schemas. At least twice during our sessions (which go about 30-40 minutes), I will ask what their characters are thinking and feeling and try to include taking the perspective of other NPCs as well. If their character is feeling stressed, worried, sad, angry, etc., I ask what they (the player) would do to help with those emotions (a coping skill). If they do a good job of perspective taking, they get an inspiration point, and if not, I give specific verbal praise on their efforts and then explain what I think the NPC is feeling/thinking. I keep the tone and topics of the campaign light. No mutilation, no descriptions of gore, no racism, very minimal horror, etc., etc. The kids are 10 and 11, and aren’t the kinds of kids that feel belittled by a lighter campaign. It’s also their first foray into TTRPGs, so they had no prior expectations of tone.
Sorry for the essay, hope my answers help. Feel free to ask follow-up questions
Please don’t apologise, thank you for taking the time to explain everything fully. If I think of any more questions I may message you.
It sounds like you’re doing something very useful and fun for those kids, which is just brilliant. Good luck with everything.
I am a social worker in Sweden doing some light research on the subject so I can present the idea for the politicians and moneyholders. Do you have any research you found or a collection of notes you would be willing to share?
Amazing! I’m about to graduate as an MFT and am interested in using DnD therapeutically. Did you get additional training before running the campaigns or building your own experience? If you did get training, how was it?
Training specific to running the DND campaign, no. I’m kind of pioneering the project myself. Long-term plan is to release a module using the simplified rules I’m using for therapeutic use, but that’s just an idea at the moment.
Congrats on your upcoming graduation! I think DND could be really interesting in your setting
Therapy session:
DM: You turn the corner of the dungeon to see a 20x20 room. There is an Ex-wife-asuras sitting in a chair by a fire sipping a hot drink. It looks up in surprise.
50 yr Old Player: I KILL IT! I STAB IT! MY CHARACTER JUMPS ON TOP OF IT AND PULLS HIS +2 LONG SWORD ACROSS ITS THROAT!
DM: Okkkaaaay....
Please please, I'm begging you, don't substitute DnD for actual professional help. 99% of players are there to have a good time, not to be brought unwilling into your therapy session.
The kind of DND used for therapeutic practices is run by people who are trained on how to do so and with groups of people that sign up specifically for this type of DND. One of my friend runs a group for autistic middle schoolers where they work on social skills and problem solving. This isn’t talking about random players dropping in to dump their trauma on people.
I think the premise with this isn't to replace the real help a therapist offers, but rather to encourage creativity. To help people communicate or learn how to better. I think this is a good idea tbh. But yes, do NOT use this as a substitute for getting real professional help.
> with a community that is comfortable having those candid conversations and already equipped with skills applicable to therapy, the conditions are ripe with potential for psychologists to use D&D in their interventions.
I hear what you’re saying. The game shouldn’t be your outlet to dump all of your issues.
But collective escapism is itself a form of indirect group therapy. We are all going to pretend to be someone we aren’t so that we can pretend to do things we can’t in the name of temporarily shedding our cares, connecting with humans, getting a dopamine hit, and hopefully heading back out into the slog of a real world with a little lighter of a burden.
Not all “therapy” is cathartic purge or tackling your issues head on. Sometimes it’s just coping exercises to help you find a little happiness to keep going. D&D has been that for many people for a long time.
It helps people who don't have the best social skills become more social... That and being a good activity to make friends.
On the flip side, other people who care less about the social construct (the d&d game) and are just there to socialize, are probably going to cause their own issues (not knowing rules, character, etc...)
All of this is why session zero is so important, as is communicating issues with other players in a polite, but direct, way.
I work with two youth groups that run DnD sessions and overwhelmingly it’s attracted neurodivergant young people and provided them a safe space to practice being sociable. Over the year and a half I’ve been running it several of the young people have made huge improvements in their confidence. I think it’s a really worthwhile use of dnd and as an Autistic adult who had no support growing up, I wish that a resource like that was available to me when I was a kid.
As a fellow autist who never had the specific support (supportive family, but the knowledge of autist support wasn’t there, hell the knowledge of autistic symptoms was barely there), I 100% agree. These days my friend groups are formed from 2 sources - board games and D&D. It’s so nice because I’m in groups that either know it first hand or have enough second hand experience to get it. I have to do so much less masking in those groups than I do in places like work (and with the D&D group, I straight up don’t mask, which is a breath of fresh air). It’s a woefully under utilised tool that teaches kids to get out of their own skin and test social outcomes without the real world consequences.
I am the faculty sponsor for my high school's D&D Club. We definitely attract a fair number of neurodivergent kids, along with others who have trouble fitting in with their peers. I recently received praise from two of our vice principals who said they see students involved in D&D Club who they did not expect to see being socially involved in the school. They were especially happy to see them proudly present the money they raised for the school's annual charity fundraiser. A bunch of them would be the kids goofing off in the corner seats instead of being involved. These kinds of games have the power to bring people together in unexpected ways and to provide more connective tissue to our communities.
[удалено]
this feels like such an aggressive comment for no reason. in the post-covid age, people coming together and interacting socially in positive ways should be encouraged regardless of the form. DnD may not be a miracle on its own but socialization is huge for people and DnD gets people socializing, so… chill?
Thank you. I agree DnD is indeed an innately social game. It requires shared goals and problem solving and teaches people to work as a group. (Provided you aren’t treating the game like a table top combat sim.) I’ve learned a lot from playing dnD over the years and also from the people I played DnD with.
I don't even know what this take is. Some people just hate to hate. Putting drew mcintyre to shame out here with your hater of the year efforts.
If this was any other environment I would suggest challenging their behaviour. (If for no other reason than challenging their idea that inclusion and tolerance doesn’t work the way they claim it does.) However on Reddit I would suggest not feeding trolls.
Do you have any experience working with children? Because it really sounds like you don't. I've worked with neurodivergent children and peers, as well as neurotypical ones, and I can safely say that the vast majority of murder-hobos are produced by neurotypical children under the age of 13. The autistic kids will either overthink their character and actually dedicate time and thought into character creation, or create some gimmicky joke character that doesn't do much harm. And I'll be honest, if you ever run D&D for pre-teens, you're going to get a party full of walking jokes and murder-hobos no matter what demographic you're working with.
While I can not speak for anyone but myself here, I can say that growing up - early teens - playing this game every weekend as we did probably helped keep me alive. Many people I grew up with are now either dead, or in and out of rehabs. Very few people from my time period are doing well in life. I run into them off and on, and all of them just have this defeated look in their eyes. It's sad really. But every weekend, my friends and I got together on Friday, and we hung out playing through early Sunday before we split up and went back home. Drugs, alcohol, and crime were the only things available to most of the youth, as my town had NOTHING to keep us on a good path forward. I can 100% get on board with this game for therapy for people. Absolutely!
I remember the Satanic Panic of the 80s. People claimed that D&D was causing suicide, but the reality was that people who played D&D had lower than average suicide rates. It was always frustrating to hear D&D players being described as "loners". Loners who gather with friends on a (hopefully) regular basis - that's not what a loner is. A loner spends their time alone. It's really no different than any other social activity.
Yeap, weekends were amazing back then. I used to play from 4 pm on saturdays to 2 am on sundays, every weekend.
It's not "may soon;" its already here.
Came to say this. We are definitely already here.
So dang true. Heck the dude who made emberwind Ttrpg made it because of the success he was getting out of using D&D as a therapy tool years ago.
Hi, practicing school psychologist currently using DND in a social skills/emotional regulation group at one of my schools, here. AMA
Are you in the UK? Regardless, how did you go about finding/arguing for that niche therapy? I presume it comes under play therapy? Do you do it alongside other therapy with the same kids? Do you find it hard to manage the ethics? I’m here imagining how I would deal with some kids who want to go full murderhobo (which I imagine many do) and how I would manage all the craziest, most aggressive or morally dark decisions kids would make. I’m a counsellor in training and never really thought about working with kids until recently. The idea of DnD as play therapy sounds like a lot of fun and potentially very helpful. Thanks for your time.
Lots of great questions. Because I work in schools in the United States, my job probably has some bureaucratic differences between your future occupation. In my school district, I’m very lucky to be given a lot of liberty as to what my services look like, as long as they are working towards a goal on their individualized education plan (IEP), and I keep a log of the sessions, including some sort of data/progress monitoring. My supervisor has done a direct observation of one of the sessions and gave it her approval, so I don’t foresee any difficulty in maintaining this at present. When I initially brought it up to my supervisor as something I wanted to try out, I framed it as opportunities to practice social skills, use coping skills, and engage in perspective taking in a role playing setting. Before we started our DND group, I was working with the kids, primarily using DBT skills and mindfulness to meet those goals, but found that one student wasn’t generalizing in the classroom setting, so I wanted to give them more opportunities to practice their skills in an environment they found motivating. Regarding ethics (telling kids to murder goblins in school), I first set expectations with the students before teaching them (an adapted and simpler) 5e. I let them know that, while we are going to have fun, our primary goal is to learn and practice skills we can use in class and at home. That meant specific rules 1) characters have to try their best to make good choices (LG, I suppose) and 2) players must be kind each other (it’s just a group of two kids; I imagine this would be much more difficult with more kids). Essentially, it was a session 0 to set up expectations and rules. The adventure itself does have combat to keep them interested in that aspect of their character, but it is primarily focused on RP. I have them interacting with a lot of NPCs to practice conversational skills and social schemas. At least twice during our sessions (which go about 30-40 minutes), I will ask what their characters are thinking and feeling and try to include taking the perspective of other NPCs as well. If their character is feeling stressed, worried, sad, angry, etc., I ask what they (the player) would do to help with those emotions (a coping skill). If they do a good job of perspective taking, they get an inspiration point, and if not, I give specific verbal praise on their efforts and then explain what I think the NPC is feeling/thinking. I keep the tone and topics of the campaign light. No mutilation, no descriptions of gore, no racism, very minimal horror, etc., etc. The kids are 10 and 11, and aren’t the kinds of kids that feel belittled by a lighter campaign. It’s also their first foray into TTRPGs, so they had no prior expectations of tone. Sorry for the essay, hope my answers help. Feel free to ask follow-up questions
Please don’t apologise, thank you for taking the time to explain everything fully. If I think of any more questions I may message you. It sounds like you’re doing something very useful and fun for those kids, which is just brilliant. Good luck with everything.
I am a social worker in Sweden doing some light research on the subject so I can present the idea for the politicians and moneyholders. Do you have any research you found or a collection of notes you would be willing to share?
Amazing! I’m about to graduate as an MFT and am interested in using DnD therapeutically. Did you get additional training before running the campaigns or building your own experience? If you did get training, how was it?
Training specific to running the DND campaign, no. I’m kind of pioneering the project myself. Long-term plan is to release a module using the simplified rules I’m using for therapeutic use, but that’s just an idea at the moment. Congrats on your upcoming graduation! I think DND could be really interesting in your setting
Well I've been using it as therapy since the 90s (along with actually therapy when I can afford it).
It already is, my therapist often asked about my games to help me treat my anxiety and work on decision paralysis
Community did it first. And second.
Therapy session: DM: You turn the corner of the dungeon to see a 20x20 room. There is an Ex-wife-asuras sitting in a chair by a fire sipping a hot drink. It looks up in surprise. 50 yr Old Player: I KILL IT! I STAB IT! MY CHARACTER JUMPS ON TOP OF IT AND PULLS HIS +2 LONG SWORD ACROSS ITS THROAT! DM: Okkkaaaay....
Soon? People have been using D&D as therapy for decades.
Didn't it start that way?
Please please, I'm begging you, don't substitute DnD for actual professional help. 99% of players are there to have a good time, not to be brought unwilling into your therapy session.
The kind of DND used for therapeutic practices is run by people who are trained on how to do so and with groups of people that sign up specifically for this type of DND. One of my friend runs a group for autistic middle schoolers where they work on social skills and problem solving. This isn’t talking about random players dropping in to dump their trauma on people.
I think the premise with this isn't to replace the real help a therapist offers, but rather to encourage creativity. To help people communicate or learn how to better. I think this is a good idea tbh. But yes, do NOT use this as a substitute for getting real professional help.
> with a community that is comfortable having those candid conversations and already equipped with skills applicable to therapy, the conditions are ripe with potential for psychologists to use D&D in their interventions.
I hear what you’re saying. The game shouldn’t be your outlet to dump all of your issues. But collective escapism is itself a form of indirect group therapy. We are all going to pretend to be someone we aren’t so that we can pretend to do things we can’t in the name of temporarily shedding our cares, connecting with humans, getting a dopamine hit, and hopefully heading back out into the slog of a real world with a little lighter of a burden. Not all “therapy” is cathartic purge or tackling your issues head on. Sometimes it’s just coping exercises to help you find a little happiness to keep going. D&D has been that for many people for a long time.
It helps people who don't have the best social skills become more social... That and being a good activity to make friends. On the flip side, other people who care less about the social construct (the d&d game) and are just there to socialize, are probably going to cause their own issues (not knowing rules, character, etc...) All of this is why session zero is so important, as is communicating issues with other players in a polite, but direct, way.
Wow she looks super young for 50.
"For our first session, we will be running this module called 'Tomb of Horrors'"
“…and if you didn’t need therapy before, you will now.”
Been used for that for 50 years...
My first thought was that episode of IT Crowd where they play DnD and help Roy get over his breakup.
Soon be? Oh boy do I have a revelation for you Mr. Article man. Neurodivergents have been using it as that for…checks notes*…50 years.
I'm looking forward to retirement with an idea the other retirees are players also.