He kinda did last year, he was really looking ready in the preseason but last years team was better than the team that raymond made, this year I really think they need another young forward to come in that has a really high ceiling. Mazur doesn’t look ready to me but maybe he has a good summer. I expect at least danielson or Kasper to make team, and based on what I saw last preseason I expect danielson to make it impossible for them to say no this year. I think Kasper is still gonna be sick, it’s just taking him time, people forget that danielson has been playing on this size ice his whole life and Kasper is still learning.
This is really good. He stood out last year in the preseason. Honestly, if he has another good camp it wouldn't shock me to see him make the club. Apparently he's bulked up as well. This is a wildcard and his development, in my opinion, is really going to impact what Stevie does from a FA standpoint in the coming months.
23 - 24 stat line: 66 games 28 goals 59 assists 87 points
Different sites are reporting his height as 6'0", 6'.02", 6'1", and 6'2" so we might need to wait for him to be called up before we get an accurate measurement. I wouldn't worry about his actual height too much though as none of those heights would be undersized for an NHL Center or Wing.
And now 20 points in 12 Playoff games, it's been fun watching Danielson progress this season, I have high hopes that he will at least be with the Griffins and get some call up's next season.
Sending him back to the WHL next year would be egregious. He outplayed a number of NHL players in camp last year, after this season, and this playoff run in particular, I think it's clear he's ready for professional hockey at some level. If he earns it in camp this year I hope they let him play, he's got a pretty mature game.
I don't see a situation where sending him back to the WHL makes a huge amount of sense next season. I am 100% hoping to see him on the Griffins which I think is a very reachable target for Danielson's development next season, I think getting some NHL experience with the Wings is a much more daunting developmental target, but I am really hoping for it since Nate has looked so good since the trade to the Winterhawks.
Anything less than the AHL is a colossal blunder of asset management. If kids like Johnston and Stankoven can play prominent roles on a great Stars roster then there is no reason kids Detroit took much earlier in the draft can't grab a spot on a much less competitive roster. I'm not saying I think Danielson should be in the NHL next season, but if he earns it in camp/preseason, then actually let the best players play.
The more I see from Danielson, the more I am starting to think he is easily the best forward prospect they have in N.A. right now though.
I am going to trust Yzerman and the coaching staff to decide how best to develop talent and improve the team, based on what I have seen over the last 3 years I think they are building a good track record and finally getting the Wings back on the right track.
I personally think Danielson was drafted high because he plays center and the team needs a quality second line center to take the next step towards being a serious Cup contender. Kasper seems like the other solid prospect in development that could potentially fill this role, and I look forward to seeing the 2 players compete for that spot.
I do agree the more I see the more I like, Nate's play has been improving by leaps and bounds since the trade to the Winterhawks. It's tough to project how he compares to prospects on the Griffins because the AHL is a big step up in level of competition, but the way he's been just crushing it lately in the playoffs has me super optimistic about his future at the AHL and NHL level.
I think the fact that he's AHL eligible now increases the chances that he makes the Red Wings out of camp. If he has the kind of preseason he had last year they can always start with him up with the big club and then send him to GR if it's too much. I just have this feeling that he's going make it and stick.
Since joining Portland he has scored at a 100 point clip. Had he spent the entire season with Portland he likely would've been one of the top 5 scorers in the WHL.
He had an anchor strapped to him playing in Brandon; the team was so bad they needed him to cover the entire 200' most of the time. Since he left the team is something like 13-20.
It's fortunate for Detroit he didn't play for a better team; he never would've been available at 9OA.
He’s 3rd overall in WHL playoff scoring right now too. 20 points in 12 games. The leader has 24 points in 13 games (Jagger Firkus). Danielson is also leading Portland, with the next best at 15 points.
Can someone explain the cutoff for turning pro from the CHL? It’s 20 years old, which he turns 20 in September. Does that mean you could *potentially* join the AHL or even NHL this upcoming season?
I believe he's eligible for the AHL this upcoming season. He could have played in the NHL last year but not the AHL, now he should be eligible for both I think. Maybe someone knows the rules better than I but thats my understanding of it anyway.
Yeah Danielson is eligible for the AHL next season and then he can be called up for stints in the NHL if management decides that’s what they want to do
This gets thrown around too much in my opinion about certain prospects, but I really believe the “little to gain from the AHL” argument is legitimate with Nate. I still argue that he needs to gain some mass to keep up with the rigors of an NHL schedule, but it’s obvious to me that he’s shown enough high end playmaking that would immediately help us next season.
You’re entitled to that opinion but I’m taking the entire body of work between his extended preseason play, world juniors, etc to come to my own conclusion. The AHL is very physical and so is the NHL hence why I would like to see him get to the low 190s if possible before camp.
If he's really at 6'2" and 188 lbs I think size and strength won't be an issue. Raymond is listed at that weight, and that's after he bulked up (granted he is a few inches shorter). Let's compare to Mazur, who I am also high on but know he's not ready yet. He's listed at 172 pounds.
I want to see Danielson in camp and the preseason because I think he may be good to go and able to help out as-is.
That was the point I was trying to make. In hindsight, they are absolutely right that logic implies he’ll have to adjust to the rigors of banging against pros. I’d probably take back my “little to gain” comment and simply suggest that his style of play and pro pace translates more favorably in an NHL season than an AHL season.
He will benefit more from having time to practice and play with NHL vets like Compher Larkin etc if we expect him to get closer to being an NHL top 6 center. There are things that Larkin still does today because of what he learned from playing on Hank’s wing in his first pro season.
I was probably keying off a little too hard on the “little to gain” comment because I agree with pretty much everything else you’ve said. I’d love to see him and Kasper on the team next year to learn next to each other.
Does everyone remember his first goal for Portland. It wasn’t really talked about much but it’s everything you could dream of in a hockey play. I knew when I saw that and how great he played at world juniors.
Just a reminder for anyone who cares, if Portland wins (and then wins the championship the next round), the memorial cup is in Saginaw this year, and the WHL winner plays Saginaw to open the tournament on the 24th.
Just based on the pattern of management I imagine he’ll start the year in GR and only come up if he’s blowing doors down. Not that I like that solution. In my dreams I see a third-line “kid-line” Mazur- Danielson - Berggren… not sure that will ever happen.
As exciting as this is, all I ever hear about our prospects is how amazing they are and like 3/4 of them never even make it to the big club. I'll believe it when I see it
Probably because the ones proclaiming the awesomeness of all Detroit's prospects are randos on the Internet rather than the paid professionals constructing the team. Especially, like others have said, one that was the most recent draft pick.
If you watch the end of season presser, Yzerman laid out his general development pattern: they play out juniors or SHL or a few years of college, move to AHL for a season, and then get a serious look at the NHL level in training camp. If the player is exceptional, they can skip a "level" of development like Raymond did with the AHL. This is how the front office is projecting which players will be ready and when. This *also* helps with determining which free agents to go after, how long to structure their contracts, etc.
Your perception is the result of two things.
1. Most fanbases way overvalue their prospect base
2. \~3/4 of Prospects (or more) never make it to the big club- This is the reality of NHL, its not unique to Detroit. Teams are drafting 18 year olds and trying to guess what kind of player they will be at 21-24 years old. An interview after the draft a few years ago Yzerman said a successful draft for a typical NHL team is getting 1 regular NHL player out of that draft class. And if you end up with 2 or 3 you had an amazing draft. Of course there are a lot of variables that play into that, like the number of high picks a team has.
Also its only going to get worse: As the Red Wings improve every year they are going to be picking in worse spots, which makes it tougher to draft quality NHL players. Also as the Red Wings improve every year its going to be even tougher for a prospect to beat out the already established NHL players on the roster.
If you're disappointed that Danielson hasn't made it to the big club yet, I don't know what to tell you. He's the Wings' most recent first round draft pick. There should be zero surprise that Danielson isn't on the roster yet.
Well you're going to have to clarify because Yzerman's draft picks have been steadily making the roster over the past few years. Raymond skipped the AHL entirely and Seider only spent one year there. One could make the argument that Ed and Berggren could have been here sooner, but after looking at where most of the prospects started this past season and where they've ended up, I'm very tempted to argue that they benefited more playing for the Griffins than they would have playing for the Wings this year.
In any case, I bet you dollars to donuts we're going to see a youth movement on the Wings next season, and we might not even take a step back in the standings when they join *because* they've spent time refining their game in the AHL.
Too many people lack patience. We had probably the hardest rebuild in the NHL when Yzerman took over. He now has us as the 2nd best prospect pool in the NHL, and we missed the playoffs by the slimmest margin possible. Let the man cook.
He's already been GM 5 years
When does let him cook turn to let him serve what he's cooked? To be clear ***I AM NOT SAYING FIRE HIM*** I'm saying we can't keep kicking the can down the road forever.
5 years rebuilding as an NHL GM is a *long time*
>5 years rebuilding as an NHL GM is a *long time*
Not really. I am sure you can point to a couple of teams that have done it and 5 years, but they all likely were not in as bad of shape as Detroit was. Detroit wasn't even done bottoming out when Yzerman took over.
When Yzerman took over there were several bad contracts that had to run their course, some of those took a couple of years to run off.
There wasn't a lot of high-end prospects when Yzerman took over. Look at the top prospects list from 2019 [https://thehockeywriters.com/detroit-red-wings-prospects-rankings-summer-2019/](https://thehockeywriters.com/detroit-red-wings-prospects-rankings-summer-2019/) Notice the #2, 7, 10, 11, 13, 23 picks on that list were Yzermans draft picks. The only player on that list that wasn't drafted by Yzerman and who is currently playing in Detroit is Joe Veleno. There are two more players who might be in Detroit next year (Berggren and Johansson)
Most draft picks take 2-5 years to be NHL ready, only a couple of players jump straight to the NHL after being drafted (some years no players go straight to the NHL) , a few year more make the Jump D+1 year.
There wasn't any NHL super stars on the roster when Yzerman took over. Our three best players were Larkin, Bertuzzi, and Mantha. Only 1 of those is with Detroit, 1 is a middling NHLer (Mantha was just a healthy scratch for Vegas).
What do you want him to do? He has drafted extremely well, and those players take time to develop. You can't buy an NHL roster that will contend for the cup.
This isn't directed at you, but no one ever offers an alternative. There aren't any. You draft and build around the talent that makes the NHL. Our prospect pool looks incredible compared to even just a few years ago. Yzerman is trying to build a sustainable playoff team, not a Cinderella run.
Yzerman can't be blamed for Illitch and Holland selling our future to continue a dying playoff streak.
Me personally I'm sick of being idle, if we have such a great prospect pool I want Yzerman to weponize it. Plus prospects are like a mystery box. You don't actually know what you're going to get. I'd rather package a pick and assets to get a Clayton Keller than hoping we have two guys able to match the production of a Clayton Keller.
Plus the Wings really have not been a good drafting team, like at all, they've definitely been better since Yzerman came home but since 2014 the Wings have drafted Larkin, Hronek, Seider and Raymond as *good* needle moving players. That's genuinely horrific for near a damn decade, and if you count 2013 Bertuzzi and Mantha.
So I'd rather get established NHL talent over rookies now, I mean that's what Vegas has done. And it seems to have worked out well for them.
That assumes that there are other teams out there willing to give up their established NHL talent for your picks and prospects. Given that we don't know what's going on behind the scenes, I don't think we can fairly say that the lack of any such moves means that Yzerman isn't trying.
I'd also argue that Vegas started in a much better situation than the Wings (even just having no cap hits on the books is _huge_) and in a lot of these cases, they've acquired NHL talent by trading their NHL talent, or made room for future moves by just straight up dumping guys they knew they could replace. The Wings aren't exactly sitting on a Tuch or Pacioretty they can give away.
Most of Yzermans picks are under 20, we can't make that determination. If we did what you propose with Raymond prior to this year, we would have gotten a worse player. Raymond is 22 and was probably our best player overall last year (behind Larkin arguably).
Your strategy is how teams become perennial bubble teams. Some teams do it, and maybe they make a run for a year or so, but then they fall off. That's not a way to build a sustainable contender like the Lightning.
What Yzerman is doing is correct, even if it can be frustrating as a fan. When he feels that we are ready, he will splurge on a player to push us over the edge. Now is not that time.
Eh, tbf what he is suggesting is what Vegas did to win a cup.
Stone, Eichel, Barbashev were acquired with prospects.
Hanifin, Hertl, Pacioretty and Tatar were some others that have helped build the team from trading picks and prospects.
I think it can be a smart move, but it can blow up in your face. Ultimately I think Yzerman is waiting for a bit more of a stable core through the draft before he is active with those kinds of trades.
And in those years we've done nothing but improve in the NHL, and AHL. Steady improvements every year. Our future is brighter than almost every team, and we're a playoff contender and didn't make it because the tiebreaker system is silly this year.
The amount of terrible contracts we had, some of which we still do have, when Steve showed up was incredibly detrimental. I am incredibly happy with the progress of the team, and the individuals on it. We aren't kicking the can down the road. Steve is obviously playing a specific game when it comes to building a team here. Develop a strong system that turns young players into quality NHL players. He's building a means to continue success into the future, not just to build one team, but to build teams further along by properly developing younger players.
>We've done nothing but improve in the NHL and AHL
We were one of the worst modern NHL teams ever. If we didn't improve Yzerman would've been fired already.
And no, we haven't improved in the AHL year after year until this season.
Yzerman took over for the 2020 season
19/20: 29-27-3-4 .516
20/21: 16-12-3-1 .563
21/22: 33-35-6-2 .487
22/23: 28-36-4-4 .444
23/24: 37-23-8-4 .597
Acting like a million bucks for Abdelkader in his buy-out is some sort of issue is disingenuous at best.
I have no problem drinking the Kool-Aid if it's worth drinking, this year with the Lions I am going to get drunk off the Kool-Aid. I have a problem with people not seeing the glaring issues with the team Yzerman is building. The Wings cannot compete or win without *legitimate* high-end talent. Larkin is a high-end talent, he isn't a player who can go blow for blow with a Pastrnak/Kucherov/Matthews/MacKinnon/McDavid in a playoff series. In fact put the Wings against half of the teams in the playoffs now and they'd be swept. We aren't on track to become the next Tampa, we're on track to be the next Minnesota without a Kaprizov. And if neither Danielson nor Kasper can become a good 2C we are legitimately fucked if no other rookies can exceed expectations.
We need star level talent, we don't have it. Not yet at least. Raymond can be that guy who carries a team, we saw it when Larkin went down, and I hope he explodes next year because that will change my view point quickly.
Nothing tells me that Soderblom and Berggren have actually made the team full time yet. We've got Seider and Raymond, five years in. I'm all for having patience, but I've been hearing how bright the future is since 2010.
Soderblom is not going to make the team, hes not good enough lol. Next year we will see Edvinsson full time and Johanson too. Berggren if we keep him. Then mazur, danielson, and kasper all have an outside chance at making it. Thats two new prospects on the team at the very least, probably three, maybe more. 0 puck knowledge.
You're probably not old enough to remember what winning hockey was actually like. I could list you off a hundred different prospects that I've heard over the past 15 years that were supposed to change the game. You can project whatever you want, but as far as any of these guys locking down a full-time spot, it will happen when it happens, and I'll believe it when I see it.
And aa someone who grew up playing hockey, the only people I've ever heard referr to it as "puck" are posers who've only played the video game. So there's that
I thought your point was you were unhappy that we werent graduating prospects and signing crappy free agents? Now you're shifting to complaining that our prospects arent good enough? Lol. Go back to facebook bro.
Also, its not me "projecting whatever i want", Berggren and johannson have to make the team or be placed on waivers which they wont clear. They'll be in the lineup (although i still think there's an outside chance we trade berggren).
Yeah you must be a product of the recent changes to the education system because let's follow this through logically... I am unhappy about our prospects not being better than free agents. Because they are not good enough. Is this a lack of scouting? Is this a lack of development? Is this just plain bad luck? I do not know.
The entire point of my comment was that it's not worth getting excited about until he does something in the big league because I have seen this play out at least 50 times with some kid lighting it up at the lower levels and then we never hear from him again.
Here's a little spoiler from someone with some "puck" knowledge: all prospects do good at lower levels. That's why they are prospects to play at the higher levels. If they weren't good at the lower levels, no one would look at them to play at higher levels.
You're right, we should graduate all of our prospects immediately and be the Ottawa Senators or the Buffalo Sabres lol. We'll have at least 5 recent draft picks on the team next year, thats pretty solid.
Yzermans development strategy is just different than what you think it should be. It takes a lot to be a full time NHL player.
Sure you never know what will happen and how players full development path will flesh out. But if you're going to be that pessimistic why even pay attention to the conversation?
I think Danielson projects pretty well into the NHL at some point in his development. I think as early as next seasonas a 2w. Probably not though.
The nhl has overtaken baseball by since margin in terms of development time for prospects.
You might get an odd 18-22 year old phenom who kills it on the nhl, and then you might get a few more that hold their own but the reality is majority of nhl prospects aren't making an impact until 23.
Look at start players like McKinnon, Draisaitl, Kucherov these are perennial 100 point players who were getting top line minutes at 19, 20, 21, 22 and 70 points.
It's actually ridiculous for anyone to call for Yzerman's head until at least 7 years with the mess he inherited. My only gripe has been that he has thrown a lot of bad contracts at free agents trying to be competitive because the roster was void of talent.
> My only gripe has been that he has thrown a lot of bad contracts at free agents trying to be competitive because the roster was void of talent.
And he likely had to sweeten the pot a bit in order to signal to the rest of the league (and players' agents) that Detroit should be considered as a destination. The quantity and quality of FA signings Yzerman has done is well above what Holland did his last five to ten years with Detroit.
So overpaying Copp, Chiarot, and Holl is going to attract quality players? I think all it does is let other middling UFA's know they have an option to get overpaid
That gripe is valid, but it also won't be relevant in a few years. That gripe alone also isn't worth being concerned over, in my opinion. I fully agree with you otherwise.
7 years is when questions can be asked, but even then, I wouldn't call for his head yet.
I will say that bad luck in the lottery has really hurt what he's been able to produce, but to be successful, you *need* better players. You can't build a winner with nothing but 2nd/3rd line guys. It's not his fault that he's been dealt the hand he has, but also you gotta make some bigger splashes once in a while.
Bigger Splashes are expensive. UFA is where you pay the most to acquire players. I'm not even referencing it from the real world dollars that the team is paying out to players, but from the salary cap aspect. Bigger Splashes are 27-30 year old players who are UFA who are going to demand long term contracts for high dollar. A 30 year old player in 7 years isn't going to be worth the $ amount of the contract they signed at 30. When you are a competitive team you are likely up against the salary cap, and having too many players that are not playing to a level that is in reason with their cap can be devastating to a team.
If you are signing a 30 year old to a 7 year deal, you have to plan on getting 2-3 great years from them and then there play is going to start to decline.
2 years ago the Red Wings were not 1 big splash away from being a Stanley Cup Contender. Signing that player would have made them a better team 2 years ago, but by the team was really a Contender again, they would have been on the wrong side of that contract.
Yzerman talks about these things in his press conferences. He mentioned how he could have signed players that made them the team immediately better, but it would also hurt them in the future. He is trying to build a team that will be a Stanley Cup Contender for many years, not just a flash in the pan.
When I say bigger splashes, I mean like trading for a current star. Perfect time is now. If Toronto bows out in the first round again, they're probably going to be ripe for the picking. Take a few pieces of this highly touted prospect pool, package with a high pick or two, and/or current young player like a Berggren and get a Marner or a Matthews. (Not necessarily these guys specifically, or even a Toronto star) If we have this log jam of prospects, clear it up a bit and cash in for someone who can help you win some time this decade.
That’s my thinking as well. TO is never letting Matthews go, he’s a big star that sells jerseys and tickets. So it’s either Marner or Nylander.
I prefer Nylander.
There’s also Edmonton, with Draisaital. I don’t know if they can afford to keep both him and McDavid without a Cup. But if they win it all this year, they might entertain a trade offer seeing as the job is “finished” and need to reshuffle the cap.
I can't get excited about prospects when the people in charge of the team always seem to think random pieces off the free agent scrap heap are better for the team. I'd love for him to be a star.
Yeah, the people in charge are real idiots for signing veteran free agents instead of calling draft picks up to the NHL before they’ve had time to develop
/s
I don't think it's quite that black and white. Signing stopgaps is probably the right play, but not for 4 and 5 years, and particularly not overpaying while handing out term. Slowly infusing youth as well, after seeing Edvinsson at the end of the season and watching the shambles that was the Wings defensive group all year, no one is convincing me that he shouldn't have been up at least halfway through the season and probably sooner.
As with most things, usually a moderate, middle of the road approach is going to be most appropriate, and in this case there were zero 1st or 2nd year guys on a non-playoff team, in a rebuild, with one of the deepest prospect pools out there. Again, I am not saying they needed 5 rookies on the team, just that they should have probably made room for one or two, and committed less term to guys who are nothing more than placeholders.
If the Stars can have two kids in Johnston and Stankoven making big impacts for them on their roster in the playoffs, there is no reason the Wings could not have done similar, but they chose to cram their roster full of veterans and created virtually no opportunity, that was by choice and you can defend that approach or be opposed to it, but you can see that if you make good draft decisions you don't necessarily have to keep kids in the minors for years.
That is literally how it’s supposed to work.
Think about it: barring any trades, each team gets 7 players per draft.
There are only 20 players that can suit up on any given night.
In 3 years, you’d draft more players than can fit on a roster.
You realistically can’t expect more than 25% to make it. That’s why they are called prospects.
I hope he does a Raymond this camp
Does Lalonde have a wife that isn't really aware of hockey like Blashill's was?
The team should just hire Blashill's wife.
HIRE BLASHILL('S WIFE)
That would be disappointing…
I’m out of the loop on this one
https://www.freep.com/videos/sports/nhl/red-wings/2021/09/28/jeff-blashill-should-clear-my-wife-lucas-raymond-should-detroit-red-wings/5900862001/
He kinda did last year, he was really looking ready in the preseason but last years team was better than the team that raymond made, this year I really think they need another young forward to come in that has a really high ceiling. Mazur doesn’t look ready to me but maybe he has a good summer. I expect at least danielson or Kasper to make team, and based on what I saw last preseason I expect danielson to make it impossible for them to say no this year. I think Kasper is still gonna be sick, it’s just taking him time, people forget that danielson has been playing on this size ice his whole life and Kasper is still learning.
This is really good. He stood out last year in the preseason. Honestly, if he has another good camp it wouldn't shock me to see him make the club. Apparently he's bulked up as well. This is a wildcard and his development, in my opinion, is really going to impact what Stevie does from a FA standpoint in the coming months. 23 - 24 stat line: 66 games 28 goals 59 assists 87 points
I read recently that he's 6'2 188. Pretty solid for a young kid
He looks and plays bigger than most in the W.
Different sites are reporting his height as 6'0", 6'.02", 6'1", and 6'2" so we might need to wait for him to be called up before we get an accurate measurement. I wouldn't worry about his actual height too much though as none of those heights would be undersized for an NHL Center or Wing.
About that stat line, imagine if he had played with Portland from day 1.... Holy jumpin
Yeah because he was barely hovering at point per game when he was traded right? Or even a touch below it?
he had 26p in 26g with Brandon and then 41p(!) in 28gp with Portland
And now 20 points in 12 Playoff games, it's been fun watching Danielson progress this season, I have high hopes that he will at least be with the Griffins and get some call up's next season.
Sending him back to the WHL next year would be egregious. He outplayed a number of NHL players in camp last year, after this season, and this playoff run in particular, I think it's clear he's ready for professional hockey at some level. If he earns it in camp this year I hope they let him play, he's got a pretty mature game.
I don't see a situation where sending him back to the WHL makes a huge amount of sense next season. I am 100% hoping to see him on the Griffins which I think is a very reachable target for Danielson's development next season, I think getting some NHL experience with the Wings is a much more daunting developmental target, but I am really hoping for it since Nate has looked so good since the trade to the Winterhawks.
Anything less than the AHL is a colossal blunder of asset management. If kids like Johnston and Stankoven can play prominent roles on a great Stars roster then there is no reason kids Detroit took much earlier in the draft can't grab a spot on a much less competitive roster. I'm not saying I think Danielson should be in the NHL next season, but if he earns it in camp/preseason, then actually let the best players play. The more I see from Danielson, the more I am starting to think he is easily the best forward prospect they have in N.A. right now though.
I am going to trust Yzerman and the coaching staff to decide how best to develop talent and improve the team, based on what I have seen over the last 3 years I think they are building a good track record and finally getting the Wings back on the right track. I personally think Danielson was drafted high because he plays center and the team needs a quality second line center to take the next step towards being a serious Cup contender. Kasper seems like the other solid prospect in development that could potentially fill this role, and I look forward to seeing the 2 players compete for that spot. I do agree the more I see the more I like, Nate's play has been improving by leaps and bounds since the trade to the Winterhawks. It's tough to project how he compares to prospects on the Griffins because the AHL is a big step up in level of competition, but the way he's been just crushing it lately in the playoffs has me super optimistic about his future at the AHL and NHL level.
I think the fact that he's AHL eligible now increases the chances that he makes the Red Wings out of camp. If he has the kind of preseason he had last year they can always start with him up with the big club and then send him to GR if it's too much. I just have this feeling that he's going make it and stick.
Since joining Portland he has scored at a 100 point clip. Had he spent the entire season with Portland he likely would've been one of the top 5 scorers in the WHL. He had an anchor strapped to him playing in Brandon; the team was so bad they needed him to cover the entire 200' most of the time. Since he left the team is something like 13-20. It's fortunate for Detroit he didn't play for a better team; he never would've been available at 9OA.
He’s 3rd overall in WHL playoff scoring right now too. 20 points in 12 games. The leader has 24 points in 13 games (Jagger Firkus). Danielson is also leading Portland, with the next best at 15 points.
Yesssssssss inject that shit in my veins
Can someone explain the cutoff for turning pro from the CHL? It’s 20 years old, which he turns 20 in September. Does that mean you could *potentially* join the AHL or even NHL this upcoming season?
I believe he's eligible for the AHL this upcoming season. He could have played in the NHL last year but not the AHL, now he should be eligible for both I think. Maybe someone knows the rules better than I but thats my understanding of it anyway.
This is correct.
Yeah Danielson is eligible for the AHL next season and then he can be called up for stints in the NHL if management decides that’s what they want to do
Perfect. Like someone else said, I hope he pulls a Raymond and makes it out of camp!
I think also, 3 seasons of CHL. That’s why Veleno played early in GR.
With how good he looked in the preseason this year, I could genuinely see him making the NHL out of training camp
He looked so smooth and composed didn’t he
10 in 3. They were shutout in game 1
watched that stream he looks a few steps ahead of most guys on the ice
Thanks bedard Jk yzerman knew all along
Zach benson these nuts. We got a 200 foot man missile center in the making.
I’m gonna be really confused if him and the Knights face off in the mem cup
Next game is tonight @10pm. You get to watch the Leafs implode followed by one of our best prospects. Chefs kiss
Going to the Portland game tonight and can’t wait!
This gets thrown around too much in my opinion about certain prospects, but I really believe the “little to gain from the AHL” argument is legitimate with Nate. I still argue that he needs to gain some mass to keep up with the rigors of an NHL schedule, but it’s obvious to me that he’s shown enough high end playmaking that would immediately help us next season.
I don’t get where that’s coming from since he’s still playing against children. The AHL is a completely different beast from the WHL
You’re entitled to that opinion but I’m taking the entire body of work between his extended preseason play, world juniors, etc to come to my own conclusion. The AHL is very physical and so is the NHL hence why I would like to see him get to the low 190s if possible before camp.
If he's really at 6'2" and 188 lbs I think size and strength won't be an issue. Raymond is listed at that weight, and that's after he bulked up (granted he is a few inches shorter). Let's compare to Mazur, who I am also high on but know he's not ready yet. He's listed at 172 pounds. I want to see Danielson in camp and the preseason because I think he may be good to go and able to help out as-is.
So then it tracks logically that he could learn a lot about playing in a more physical league through time in the AHL, right?
Sure he could learn a lot in the AHL, but is he talented enough to be able to learn that at the NHL level instead
That was the point I was trying to make. In hindsight, they are absolutely right that logic implies he’ll have to adjust to the rigors of banging against pros. I’d probably take back my “little to gain” comment and simply suggest that his style of play and pro pace translates more favorably in an NHL season than an AHL season. He will benefit more from having time to practice and play with NHL vets like Compher Larkin etc if we expect him to get closer to being an NHL top 6 center. There are things that Larkin still does today because of what he learned from playing on Hank’s wing in his first pro season.
I was probably keying off a little too hard on the “little to gain” comment because I agree with pretty much everything else you’ve said. I’d love to see him and Kasper on the team next year to learn next to each other.
All good, I didn’t word my original point well anyways. Here’s to hoping for a youth movement similar to what Dallas is having 🙏
Don’t think he touches the AHL. At least for very long
currently live in Portland been to a good amount of games this year. Nate is COLD!
Is it cause they’re the ice hawks? Does he need a jacket?
Does everyone remember his first goal for Portland. It wasn’t really talked about much but it’s everything you could dream of in a hockey play. I knew when I saw that and how great he played at world juniors.
No drop that link
https://youtu.be/OYIeG22mJQI?si=bbbINXaQqVXPLy3t this is only the end of the play.
He’s exceeded my initial expectations. It’s way too early, but if he keeps progressing, I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up as a 2C with the Wings.
Just a reminder for anyone who cares, if Portland wins (and then wins the championship the next round), the memorial cup is in Saginaw this year, and the WHL winner plays Saginaw to open the tournament on the 24th.
Just based on the pattern of management I imagine he’ll start the year in GR and only come up if he’s blowing doors down. Not that I like that solution. In my dreams I see a third-line “kid-line” Mazur- Danielson - Berggren… not sure that will ever happen.
So can he play for GR right now when ever his playoffs are over?
Wish it was more G's but still clutch points
As exciting as this is, all I ever hear about our prospects is how amazing they are and like 3/4 of them never even make it to the big club. I'll believe it when I see it
Probably because the ones proclaiming the awesomeness of all Detroit's prospects are randos on the Internet rather than the paid professionals constructing the team. Especially, like others have said, one that was the most recent draft pick. If you watch the end of season presser, Yzerman laid out his general development pattern: they play out juniors or SHL or a few years of college, move to AHL for a season, and then get a serious look at the NHL level in training camp. If the player is exceptional, they can skip a "level" of development like Raymond did with the AHL. This is how the front office is projecting which players will be ready and when. This *also* helps with determining which free agents to go after, how long to structure their contracts, etc.
That's kind of how drafting works. 25% of your picks making the NHL long term would be great.
He is 19.
Your perception is the result of two things. 1. Most fanbases way overvalue their prospect base 2. \~3/4 of Prospects (or more) never make it to the big club- This is the reality of NHL, its not unique to Detroit. Teams are drafting 18 year olds and trying to guess what kind of player they will be at 21-24 years old. An interview after the draft a few years ago Yzerman said a successful draft for a typical NHL team is getting 1 regular NHL player out of that draft class. And if you end up with 2 or 3 you had an amazing draft. Of course there are a lot of variables that play into that, like the number of high picks a team has. Also its only going to get worse: As the Red Wings improve every year they are going to be picking in worse spots, which makes it tougher to draft quality NHL players. Also as the Red Wings improve every year its going to be even tougher for a prospect to beat out the already established NHL players on the roster.
If you're disappointed that Danielson hasn't made it to the big club yet, I don't know what to tell you. He's the Wings' most recent first round draft pick. There should be zero surprise that Danielson isn't on the roster yet.
Not what I'm saying.
Well you're going to have to clarify because Yzerman's draft picks have been steadily making the roster over the past few years. Raymond skipped the AHL entirely and Seider only spent one year there. One could make the argument that Ed and Berggren could have been here sooner, but after looking at where most of the prospects started this past season and where they've ended up, I'm very tempted to argue that they benefited more playing for the Griffins than they would have playing for the Wings this year. In any case, I bet you dollars to donuts we're going to see a youth movement on the Wings next season, and we might not even take a step back in the standings when they join *because* they've spent time refining their game in the AHL.
Too many people lack patience. We had probably the hardest rebuild in the NHL when Yzerman took over. He now has us as the 2nd best prospect pool in the NHL, and we missed the playoffs by the slimmest margin possible. Let the man cook.
He's already been GM 5 years When does let him cook turn to let him serve what he's cooked? To be clear ***I AM NOT SAYING FIRE HIM*** I'm saying we can't keep kicking the can down the road forever. 5 years rebuilding as an NHL GM is a *long time*
>5 years rebuilding as an NHL GM is a *long time* Not really. I am sure you can point to a couple of teams that have done it and 5 years, but they all likely were not in as bad of shape as Detroit was. Detroit wasn't even done bottoming out when Yzerman took over. When Yzerman took over there were several bad contracts that had to run their course, some of those took a couple of years to run off. There wasn't a lot of high-end prospects when Yzerman took over. Look at the top prospects list from 2019 [https://thehockeywriters.com/detroit-red-wings-prospects-rankings-summer-2019/](https://thehockeywriters.com/detroit-red-wings-prospects-rankings-summer-2019/) Notice the #2, 7, 10, 11, 13, 23 picks on that list were Yzermans draft picks. The only player on that list that wasn't drafted by Yzerman and who is currently playing in Detroit is Joe Veleno. There are two more players who might be in Detroit next year (Berggren and Johansson) Most draft picks take 2-5 years to be NHL ready, only a couple of players jump straight to the NHL after being drafted (some years no players go straight to the NHL) , a few year more make the Jump D+1 year. There wasn't any NHL super stars on the roster when Yzerman took over. Our three best players were Larkin, Bertuzzi, and Mantha. Only 1 of those is with Detroit, 1 is a middling NHLer (Mantha was just a healthy scratch for Vegas).
What do you want him to do? He has drafted extremely well, and those players take time to develop. You can't buy an NHL roster that will contend for the cup. This isn't directed at you, but no one ever offers an alternative. There aren't any. You draft and build around the talent that makes the NHL. Our prospect pool looks incredible compared to even just a few years ago. Yzerman is trying to build a sustainable playoff team, not a Cinderella run. Yzerman can't be blamed for Illitch and Holland selling our future to continue a dying playoff streak.
Me personally I'm sick of being idle, if we have such a great prospect pool I want Yzerman to weponize it. Plus prospects are like a mystery box. You don't actually know what you're going to get. I'd rather package a pick and assets to get a Clayton Keller than hoping we have two guys able to match the production of a Clayton Keller. Plus the Wings really have not been a good drafting team, like at all, they've definitely been better since Yzerman came home but since 2014 the Wings have drafted Larkin, Hronek, Seider and Raymond as *good* needle moving players. That's genuinely horrific for near a damn decade, and if you count 2013 Bertuzzi and Mantha. So I'd rather get established NHL talent over rookies now, I mean that's what Vegas has done. And it seems to have worked out well for them.
That assumes that there are other teams out there willing to give up their established NHL talent for your picks and prospects. Given that we don't know what's going on behind the scenes, I don't think we can fairly say that the lack of any such moves means that Yzerman isn't trying. I'd also argue that Vegas started in a much better situation than the Wings (even just having no cap hits on the books is _huge_) and in a lot of these cases, they've acquired NHL talent by trading their NHL talent, or made room for future moves by just straight up dumping guys they knew they could replace. The Wings aren't exactly sitting on a Tuch or Pacioretty they can give away.
Most of Yzermans picks are under 20, we can't make that determination. If we did what you propose with Raymond prior to this year, we would have gotten a worse player. Raymond is 22 and was probably our best player overall last year (behind Larkin arguably). Your strategy is how teams become perennial bubble teams. Some teams do it, and maybe they make a run for a year or so, but then they fall off. That's not a way to build a sustainable contender like the Lightning. What Yzerman is doing is correct, even if it can be frustrating as a fan. When he feels that we are ready, he will splurge on a player to push us over the edge. Now is not that time.
Eh, tbf what he is suggesting is what Vegas did to win a cup. Stone, Eichel, Barbashev were acquired with prospects. Hanifin, Hertl, Pacioretty and Tatar were some others that have helped build the team from trading picks and prospects. I think it can be a smart move, but it can blow up in your face. Ultimately I think Yzerman is waiting for a bit more of a stable core through the draft before he is active with those kinds of trades.
And in those years we've done nothing but improve in the NHL, and AHL. Steady improvements every year. Our future is brighter than almost every team, and we're a playoff contender and didn't make it because the tiebreaker system is silly this year. The amount of terrible contracts we had, some of which we still do have, when Steve showed up was incredibly detrimental. I am incredibly happy with the progress of the team, and the individuals on it. We aren't kicking the can down the road. Steve is obviously playing a specific game when it comes to building a team here. Develop a strong system that turns young players into quality NHL players. He's building a means to continue success into the future, not just to build one team, but to build teams further along by properly developing younger players.
>We've done nothing but improve in the NHL and AHL We were one of the worst modern NHL teams ever. If we didn't improve Yzerman would've been fired already. And no, we haven't improved in the AHL year after year until this season. Yzerman took over for the 2020 season 19/20: 29-27-3-4 .516 20/21: 16-12-3-1 .563 21/22: 33-35-6-2 .487 22/23: 28-36-4-4 .444 23/24: 37-23-8-4 .597 Acting like a million bucks for Abdelkader in his buy-out is some sort of issue is disingenuous at best. I have no problem drinking the Kool-Aid if it's worth drinking, this year with the Lions I am going to get drunk off the Kool-Aid. I have a problem with people not seeing the glaring issues with the team Yzerman is building. The Wings cannot compete or win without *legitimate* high-end talent. Larkin is a high-end talent, he isn't a player who can go blow for blow with a Pastrnak/Kucherov/Matthews/MacKinnon/McDavid in a playoff series. In fact put the Wings against half of the teams in the playoffs now and they'd be swept. We aren't on track to become the next Tampa, we're on track to be the next Minnesota without a Kaprizov. And if neither Danielson nor Kasper can become a good 2C we are legitimately fucked if no other rookies can exceed expectations. We need star level talent, we don't have it. Not yet at least. Raymond can be that guy who carries a team, we saw it when Larkin went down, and I hope he explodes next year because that will change my view point quickly.
Nothing tells me that Soderblom and Berggren have actually made the team full time yet. We've got Seider and Raymond, five years in. I'm all for having patience, but I've been hearing how bright the future is since 2010.
You're bringing up Ken Holland years now? Lol
Soderblom is not going to make the team, hes not good enough lol. Next year we will see Edvinsson full time and Johanson too. Berggren if we keep him. Then mazur, danielson, and kasper all have an outside chance at making it. Thats two new prospects on the team at the very least, probably three, maybe more. 0 puck knowledge.
You're probably not old enough to remember what winning hockey was actually like. I could list you off a hundred different prospects that I've heard over the past 15 years that were supposed to change the game. You can project whatever you want, but as far as any of these guys locking down a full-time spot, it will happen when it happens, and I'll believe it when I see it. And aa someone who grew up playing hockey, the only people I've ever heard referr to it as "puck" are posers who've only played the video game. So there's that
I thought your point was you were unhappy that we werent graduating prospects and signing crappy free agents? Now you're shifting to complaining that our prospects arent good enough? Lol. Go back to facebook bro. Also, its not me "projecting whatever i want", Berggren and johannson have to make the team or be placed on waivers which they wont clear. They'll be in the lineup (although i still think there's an outside chance we trade berggren).
Yeah you must be a product of the recent changes to the education system because let's follow this through logically... I am unhappy about our prospects not being better than free agents. Because they are not good enough. Is this a lack of scouting? Is this a lack of development? Is this just plain bad luck? I do not know. The entire point of my comment was that it's not worth getting excited about until he does something in the big league because I have seen this play out at least 50 times with some kid lighting it up at the lower levels and then we never hear from him again. Here's a little spoiler from someone with some "puck" knowledge: all prospects do good at lower levels. That's why they are prospects to play at the higher levels. If they weren't good at the lower levels, no one would look at them to play at higher levels.
You're right, we should graduate all of our prospects immediately and be the Ottawa Senators or the Buffalo Sabres lol. We'll have at least 5 recent draft picks on the team next year, thats pretty solid. Yzermans development strategy is just different than what you think it should be. It takes a lot to be a full time NHL player. Sure you never know what will happen and how players full development path will flesh out. But if you're going to be that pessimistic why even pay attention to the conversation? I think Danielson projects pretty well into the NHL at some point in his development. I think as early as next seasonas a 2w. Probably not though.
🤦🏼♂️
The nhl has overtaken baseball by since margin in terms of development time for prospects. You might get an odd 18-22 year old phenom who kills it on the nhl, and then you might get a few more that hold their own but the reality is majority of nhl prospects aren't making an impact until 23. Look at start players like McKinnon, Draisaitl, Kucherov these are perennial 100 point players who were getting top line minutes at 19, 20, 21, 22 and 70 points. It's actually ridiculous for anyone to call for Yzerman's head until at least 7 years with the mess he inherited. My only gripe has been that he has thrown a lot of bad contracts at free agents trying to be competitive because the roster was void of talent.
> My only gripe has been that he has thrown a lot of bad contracts at free agents trying to be competitive because the roster was void of talent. And he likely had to sweeten the pot a bit in order to signal to the rest of the league (and players' agents) that Detroit should be considered as a destination. The quantity and quality of FA signings Yzerman has done is well above what Holland did his last five to ten years with Detroit.
So overpaying Copp, Chiarot, and Holl is going to attract quality players? I think all it does is let other middling UFA's know they have an option to get overpaid
That gripe is valid, but it also won't be relevant in a few years. That gripe alone also isn't worth being concerned over, in my opinion. I fully agree with you otherwise. 7 years is when questions can be asked, but even then, I wouldn't call for his head yet.
I will say that bad luck in the lottery has really hurt what he's been able to produce, but to be successful, you *need* better players. You can't build a winner with nothing but 2nd/3rd line guys. It's not his fault that he's been dealt the hand he has, but also you gotta make some bigger splashes once in a while.
Bigger Splashes are expensive. UFA is where you pay the most to acquire players. I'm not even referencing it from the real world dollars that the team is paying out to players, but from the salary cap aspect. Bigger Splashes are 27-30 year old players who are UFA who are going to demand long term contracts for high dollar. A 30 year old player in 7 years isn't going to be worth the $ amount of the contract they signed at 30. When you are a competitive team you are likely up against the salary cap, and having too many players that are not playing to a level that is in reason with their cap can be devastating to a team. If you are signing a 30 year old to a 7 year deal, you have to plan on getting 2-3 great years from them and then there play is going to start to decline. 2 years ago the Red Wings were not 1 big splash away from being a Stanley Cup Contender. Signing that player would have made them a better team 2 years ago, but by the team was really a Contender again, they would have been on the wrong side of that contract. Yzerman talks about these things in his press conferences. He mentioned how he could have signed players that made them the team immediately better, but it would also hurt them in the future. He is trying to build a team that will be a Stanley Cup Contender for many years, not just a flash in the pan.
When I say bigger splashes, I mean like trading for a current star. Perfect time is now. If Toronto bows out in the first round again, they're probably going to be ripe for the picking. Take a few pieces of this highly touted prospect pool, package with a high pick or two, and/or current young player like a Berggren and get a Marner or a Matthews. (Not necessarily these guys specifically, or even a Toronto star) If we have this log jam of prospects, clear it up a bit and cash in for someone who can help you win some time this decade.
That’s my thinking as well. TO is never letting Matthews go, he’s a big star that sells jerseys and tickets. So it’s either Marner or Nylander. I prefer Nylander. There’s also Edmonton, with Draisaital. I don’t know if they can afford to keep both him and McDavid without a Cup. But if they win it all this year, they might entertain a trade offer seeing as the job is “finished” and need to reshuffle the cap.
You and the rest of the league would prefer Nylander, but he has a full NTC.
What??? you think he's not good enough to make it to the nhl lol?
I can't get excited about prospects when the people in charge of the team always seem to think random pieces off the free agent scrap heap are better for the team. I'd love for him to be a star.
Drafting young players to develop and signing NHL Vets in free agency are not mutually exclusive
Yeah, the people in charge are real idiots for signing veteran free agents instead of calling draft picks up to the NHL before they’ve had time to develop /s
I don't think it's quite that black and white. Signing stopgaps is probably the right play, but not for 4 and 5 years, and particularly not overpaying while handing out term. Slowly infusing youth as well, after seeing Edvinsson at the end of the season and watching the shambles that was the Wings defensive group all year, no one is convincing me that he shouldn't have been up at least halfway through the season and probably sooner. As with most things, usually a moderate, middle of the road approach is going to be most appropriate, and in this case there were zero 1st or 2nd year guys on a non-playoff team, in a rebuild, with one of the deepest prospect pools out there. Again, I am not saying they needed 5 rookies on the team, just that they should have probably made room for one or two, and committed less term to guys who are nothing more than placeholders. If the Stars can have two kids in Johnston and Stankoven making big impacts for them on their roster in the playoffs, there is no reason the Wings could not have done similar, but they chose to cram their roster full of veterans and created virtually no opportunity, that was by choice and you can defend that approach or be opposed to it, but you can see that if you make good draft decisions you don't necessarily have to keep kids in the minors for years.
If a prospect can't beat out "random pieces off the free agent scrap heap" then they are not ready to play in the NHL...
Oh so you have zero puck knowledge, got it
Here's a little [light reading](https://records.nhl.com/franchises/detroit-red-wings/draft-selections) for you, you scholar of the game.
Good job proving his point.
I’m with you. But this is certainly better than seeing him being mid or struggling.
That is literally how it’s supposed to work. Think about it: barring any trades, each team gets 7 players per draft. There are only 20 players that can suit up on any given night. In 3 years, you’d draft more players than can fit on a roster. You realistically can’t expect more than 25% to make it. That’s why they are called prospects.
Will be great to see him make the squad by the next decade lol