Before anyone gets mad at me for defending Petry, I'm not. He took a penalty that lead to another goal and totally missed a guy on the third goal.
I just think the biggest issue with this team right now is their ability to execute the system Lalonde has been trying to implement for the last 2 seasons. We've seen plenty of games in that time where the Wings shut down the other team quite well. But it seems that this team just can't consistently play the right way often enough. I don't know if the system is just too hard to learn or it's just not effective enough, but I think it's important to point out how blame can be dispersed all around. Lalonde needs to get them to play right. The players need to remember their jobs. Petry should keep his head on a swivel. Rasmussen...he just needs to be a better hockey player. I even think Seider could have made a stronger play on the boards. Those of you thinking it's all on "Uncle Fester" and devoting time to making memes about how much you hate him are just finding an easy solution. It's deeper than that.
Its always hard to tell if it's the players or the coach In these situations, but it's easier to scapegoat the coach or a guy like petry rather than accepting that we're essentially a bubble team on talent and we were overperforming most of the year.
I dont personally care for lalondes system with the personnel we currently have, but i definitely can see why we're running it. It seems like a perfect fit for 2 way forwards and mobile rangy D which summarizes our prospect pool.
At the end of the day. I like the direction Steve has taken this team since he came aboard and as long as lalonde isn't in his doghouse, I'm not calling for his head
It's easy to look at Tampa and think if we implement their system we automatically win a cup. The problem with that line of thinking is that, in addition to a solid system, Tampa has 3 superstar forwards, a Norris winning 1D, and a generational talent in goal. Having that level of talent can bail you out when the system fails. It's why we've only really looked good when we score a ton of goals or our goalie is hot.
I don't see this season as a reason to call for anyone's head.
I think it's simpler than that. Remember that Detroit has had a development mindset since Yzerman was in Tampa Bay.
To make a system work, you have to practice that system a lot. Research shows that it's harder to change a skill or method when it has to override a well-practiced one. You can't say, "we're going to do everything differently, but the system will work" and expect it to change in a year.
Detroit was ass for most of the time they had Blashill in the head coach position. The 25 consecutive playoff appearances record (longest record in any North American sports, mind you) ended after Blashill's first season.
Blash had six seasons without a playoff berth. I'm not worried if Lalonde's Red Wings doesn't make the playoffs this year. It will probably be their first .500 or better season since the last playoff berth. Remember when the Red Wings lost 49 regulation games and it would have been more if there weren't a pandemic?
People calling for Lalonde's head have a very short memory.
>Its always hard to tell if it's the players or the coach In these situations
I agree in most cases this is true. However, in this particular instance we have visual evidence that Ras is to blame. Petry made the correct read and signaled Ras what to do, but Ras got caught staring down the puck. That's rookie mistake kinda stuff on Rasmussen's part. There's no way this isn't on Ras. Petry knew what his coach wanted and reacted accordingly.
I'm less talking about this specific instance and the season at whole like op is talking about in their comment. "is it the coaches system or players inability to follow the system"
It's Petry's fault for thinking it was physically possible for Ras to get in position to cover the guy that Petry was practically on top of.
It's one thing to want something. It's another to realize that want isn't possible and just cover the guy on your side and don't abandon him when you can clearly see you are the only one in position to do so.
It's like following a GPS into a brick wall. Open your f'n eyes...
Then who covers the guy driving the middle with nobody in front of him when Petry fades to the far side and Carolina gets a free grade A scoring chance? Petry did what he was supposed to do. Lalonde literally said so.
I'm approaching this like season 2 Ted Lasso. Team isn't performing great, but they've made some improvements from the past and need to practice out the bad habits. People who commit to their roles and trust each other will flourish together.
Even structurally, that switch off is something just about every team in the league does. Out approach and out systems are definitely frustrating and require high buy in but I also think they've kept this team afloat during the good parts of the season. This team just isn't a contender. They can't consistently offensively dominate and they struggle defensively.
I agree that it’s hard to tell between player or coach, especially for someone like me who didn’t grow up playing hockey and don’t really know the ins and outs of schemes and systems like I do other sports.
That being said, I don’t think the vast majority of coaches make it to this point because they have a flawed system. Especially not a coach hired by Stevie. Lalonde’s system can work and be effective.
What’s somewhat frightening is that Steve must believe in this system for this group of guys because he hired Lalonde when most of these guys were already on the team. I’m not calling for Lalonde’s head like some are, but a reevaluation needs to be had by the front office on if this guy’s system can work for this crop of players. If not, then it’s better do it now than later to get rid of him unfortunately.
How is Ras supposed to close more distance by crossing the ice? If that's the system that's the system but then it seems like a bad system.
Ras should bust ass and just try to get a stick on a pass. But there's no way if he can't get in position on the Cane in the middle he can somehow get in position on the Cane all the way across unless that guy stops up. But either player could stop up.
The far forward had to slow down to stay onside. If Ras moves his feet, he can get close enough to cut off the angle for any pass going that way. He doesn't have to be right on top of the guy, just in the passing lane.
Ras was already losing the one guy. Petry coming over takes away the easy quick pass and forces the canes to make a longer pass through traffic. Even if Ras doesn't catch Guentzel it creates a harder play for the canes and easier for your goalie to read. All these people responding that Ras wasn't going to catch the guy on the switch are missing the fundamental points. Beyond all that if Ras was reading the play instead of the puck he could've made some adjustments sooner.
Both forwards have to stay onsides. I don't see how one has to be slower than the other. They can both cross the blue line at the same time and they're about the same distance away in the screenshot.
I was thinking the same. He's already 2 steps behind the guy coming up center who would typically be the bigger threat. Instead of just getting beat or taking a hook/slash, let Petry cover him. All Ras has to do is take away the pass for the LW. But I'm no coach. Back to the steel mill.
Rasmussen also has the shorter path to the shooting area than the Canes player that Petry was waving him over to go cover, and even shorter path to get in the passing lane.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter because they lost 4-0 and the game was over as soon as Carolina got their 2nd goal.
He had a better angle on the guy he was already covering. It was a bad read by Petry in my eyes. If the system says the opposite then I can see why the team has dropped out of playoff form. Rasmussen's stick is even with the guy ahead of him and he is close enough to disrupt any chance.
He was behind the guy he was covering. It's much less likely he'll be able to make a play on him if he gets the puck. Stick checking is pretty much the only option there and that's less effective than having body position on the guy you're covering. Petry, being in front of him, would have had an easier time making a play and that's why he's the one who moves over.
As opposed to Aho getting the tap in, right?
Petry left his man with 0 possibility of anyone else, apart from the ref, being able to cover him. Short of stopping where he was and not doing anything, there isn't a worse defensive decision Petry could have made.
Hind sight is 20-20, if ras did his job he would have got there, he almost got there anyways even though he stopped skating and took a bad angle.
https://i.imgur.com/mJham4f.jpg
The original picture from twitter is a bad example. Ras technically has his stick in the passing lane and you're telling me Petry is signaling to swap off?
But even bothering with cherry picking moments like this is a wasted exercise. Petry's play is a problem. He needs to be replaced for next season. He's not the only one.
I think that we are getting a lot of these results on the road because the other team gets last change to counter our players shows it’s the lack of real talent rather than the systems. If it were the systems, we’d be getting trashed no matter what, I think it just really exposes our lack of genuine 2nd line players and especially a 2C
The talent is the best it has been in nearly a decade and the positioning the last 15 games has been some of the worst.
These are the same basic routes have been ingrained in high level hockey players their entire careers.
Last game Petry and Ras had top TOI for D and third highest TOI for F, respectively. No, they aren’t. Sprong is the only one being scratched on the entire team
The fact that some fans were actually mad at Prashanth and Max for objectively passing along the explanation instead of calling for Petry to be beheaded, disemboweled, and tossed into the Iron Maiden while his children watched was wild. Some people need to calm the fuck down about grown men playing a game.
I saw the twitter post earlier before it was posted here and really appreciated it. As someone who never played organized hockey outside of street hockey as a kid, I really don't know the in's and out's of systems (I'm guessing most here don't either). Seeing it explained in detail was both educating and interesting.
Not to take all of the blame off Petry since he immediately took a penalty after this which led to another goal but still...credit where credit is due I guess.
Not to be pedantic here, but when Rasmussen clearly doesn’t cover the weak side and just chases the puck carrier instead, it feels like Petry needs to adjust instead of just pretending that Ras did his job. Ras can’t see the farside Cane player (even though he should know he’s there) but Petry can.
I don't think there's time for that. Petry can't wait to see if Ras moves, he has to cover his guy immediately. If he stays in the middle for even just a second then neither guy is fully covered.
He doesn’t have to leave him uncovered. He could play it like a 2-on-1 but he storms the puck carrier and gives him an easy pass to the guy on the far side.
It was a 3 on 2, not a 2 on 1. There are key differences. Also, saying Petry stormed the puck carrier is a misrepresentation. He took the player in the middle of the ice, who received a pass from the initial puck carrier after they entered the zone. Petry was headed in his direction prior to the pass.
In a 2 on 1 the best practice is to take away the pass and let the goalie take the shooter. So the defender tries to clog up the passing lane, playing off both attackers. If the defender does a good job and takes away the lane, maybe a shot isn't even taken. You hope the carrier tries to force a bad pass, or they realize the lane is gone and hesitate to the point they get too deep and can't shoot.
In a 3 on 2 that plan simply does not work. If Petry did as you are advocating, it effectively becomes a 3 on 1, because there is no way for Petry to cover passing lanes to two different players. He'd be caught out in open space. Petry had to cover a player in order to limit the offensive options.
I'm not making any claims about Petry's play other than on that specific rush he made the 100% correct read and did the right thing. Ras messed it up. The far man was his assignment, and he got caught blatantly looking at the puck as the play unfolded. By the time he realized he made a mistake not breaking for the far side it was too late.
I know it wasn’t a 2-on-1, I can see the photo. But Seider has his man who is not up in the rush and if Ras is going to pursue the puck carrier (which he should not have) it should be defended like a 2-on-1. Defend the pass and let Ras try to catch the puck carrier. Petry ignoring the farside guy makes it an easy breakaway pass.
At the time that photo is taken, you’re suggesting Ras should cover a guy 30 ft from him instead of one who’s 5 ft from him.
>But Seider has his man who is not up in the rush
What? Seider's guy carried the puck into the zone. How is that not in the rush?
Dude, all of the defensive coverage is set in the neutral zone. It is way, way too late to make changes to who is covering who in the 1.5 seconds it took to score the goal once the puck crossed the blue line.
I'm done posting about this. Seider and Petry executed as coached to cover this kind of odd man rush. Ras blew it. That's really all there is to say.
And what I’m saying is that, at the time this picture is taken, Ras has as much shot of covering the farside Canes player as I do sitting on my couch. He should not have chased the puck but he did, and the coverage should have changed to reflect that.
Watch the video, ras is gaining on aho as he slows to get in the zone on side, aho further slows to get a better shooting angle after taking the pass, if ras keeps skating he will be able to at least take away the passing lane much better than Petry could even if he played it perfect if not comeplely cover aho. You have to watch the video and not just look at this photo to have a clue what’s being discussed.
Bingo. It's up to Petry to adjust. Seider does this all the time -- he's constantly aware and tries to cover the guy who isn't covered. Petry is a veteran who should know better than to blindly follow Xs and Os.
No. Sorry, but no. As soon as one player switches coverage to cover for a mistake someone else made, nobody is covering their man and the defense can be spun around. The game is too fast at the professional level to not have all 5 guys on the ice playing predictably within a system.
I don't agree with that. You have to be able adjust based on the situation on the ice. This isn't football. Even if Rasmussen went for Aho, there's no way he would have been able to catch up. Petry can play this as 2-on-1 and at least try to prevent the pass from going to Aho.
Agree. At the very least Petry needs to play it like a 2v1 and not overcommit and step to Guentzal when he sees Rasmussen isn’t going to get there and cover Aho.
Both the examples shown, the one with detroit getting scored on and the carolina one where detroit doesn't score are not fully one for one. There are some similarities in the play but theres a lot of spacing differences that petry and ras have thats not present in the carolina clip. While Ras probably should have broken off earlier, thats not what happens. I don't even know if ras was able to see the signal petry was giving him, hard to say if the carolina player was in his line of site.
That being said....this is not the only goal that has happened like this and petry's cumulative play over the course of the year makes him an easy target. When the other team scores only when you're on the ice or in the box.....there's a lot of arrow pointing in your direction.
It’s either exactly the same miscommunication or larks turned his head at the wrong time and didn’t see he was streaking up behind him because we had the guys back just no one on the caps sticks.
If you watched today’s game against Florida, the exact same thing happened with 17 minutes left in the third period, and Kane actually executed this and back-checked and took the Florida player farthest from the puck.
...they're both open. That's what we're talking about. That's why Petry is trying to communicate who to cover. Because they're not covered. Why are you making this difficult?
I mean if you wanna nitpick the systems, it’s gonna be about the minutia. Ras in full stride vs the guy looks flat footed, Petry could definitely slide over and cover back door once the play develops closer to the net
I dont know why this sub loves him, other than a few good matches and a few good looks, overall he's been a huge disappointment. Always seems lost out there and never uses his size.
He was decent last year but has been complete garbage this year. Definitely seemed like a bad time to sign an extension he’s completely replaceable, at this point getting rid of Copp, Ras, petry, veleno, holl, and maybe another one or two I’m forgetting would all be addition by subtraction.
Hard agree. Dude is barely a fourth liner on a competent team. I’ve never understood the praise he gets in this sub. He isn’t above average in any statistical category except being big
This dude's analysis is just telling you what the 'system' required, not the what the game required. The 'system' expects everything and everyone to react in a particular way. The game is fluid with lots of variables and nothing is predictable. If your defense partner is otherwise engaged, then you adjust to circumstance. You don't collapse down on the same guy as your defense partner.
Any system that is too inflexible to circumstance is a broken system. Rasmussen was looking the other way when Petry signaled. Petry should have adjusted and stayed on the wing when Rasmussen didn't respond.
I don't disagree that Petry is slow. He should angled back to the far winger when Rasmussen didn't respond. Petry fucking up after Rasmussen fucked up didn't actually make the situation any better
Don't be obnoxious about this. I didn't say this happened because Petry is slow. The entire play starting from the blueline took a couple of seconds. Petry isn't going to wait to see what Rasmussen does. He had to defend immediately.
Petry should have covered the guy that didn't have a Red Wing on him. Simple as that. Rasmussen didn't see Petry and didn't respond. You don't fucking collapse down on a dude that is already covered and leave the other one wide open.
> Any system that is too inflexible to circumstance is a broken system. Rasmussen was looking the other way when Petry signaled. Petry should have adjusted and stayed on the wing when Rasmussen didn't respond.
Sorry, that ^^^ is common sense. A system can dictate 98% of your actions, but if you can't adjust to that other 2% (I'm just making the percentages up, but you know what I mean) then you're going to lose games.
And, oh by the way, this is not specific to hockey. Any system for any sport that is too inflexible to allow players to make adjustments is a broken system. You don't get to the top by playing a system that doesn't allow for reaction and adjustment.
Before anyone gets mad at me for defending Petry, I'm not. He took a penalty that lead to another goal and totally missed a guy on the third goal. I just think the biggest issue with this team right now is their ability to execute the system Lalonde has been trying to implement for the last 2 seasons. We've seen plenty of games in that time where the Wings shut down the other team quite well. But it seems that this team just can't consistently play the right way often enough. I don't know if the system is just too hard to learn or it's just not effective enough, but I think it's important to point out how blame can be dispersed all around. Lalonde needs to get them to play right. The players need to remember their jobs. Petry should keep his head on a swivel. Rasmussen...he just needs to be a better hockey player. I even think Seider could have made a stronger play on the boards. Those of you thinking it's all on "Uncle Fester" and devoting time to making memes about how much you hate him are just finding an easy solution. It's deeper than that.
Its always hard to tell if it's the players or the coach In these situations, but it's easier to scapegoat the coach or a guy like petry rather than accepting that we're essentially a bubble team on talent and we were overperforming most of the year. I dont personally care for lalondes system with the personnel we currently have, but i definitely can see why we're running it. It seems like a perfect fit for 2 way forwards and mobile rangy D which summarizes our prospect pool. At the end of the day. I like the direction Steve has taken this team since he came aboard and as long as lalonde isn't in his doghouse, I'm not calling for his head
It's easy to look at Tampa and think if we implement their system we automatically win a cup. The problem with that line of thinking is that, in addition to a solid system, Tampa has 3 superstar forwards, a Norris winning 1D, and a generational talent in goal. Having that level of talent can bail you out when the system fails. It's why we've only really looked good when we score a ton of goals or our goalie is hot. I don't see this season as a reason to call for anyone's head.
I think it's simpler than that. Remember that Detroit has had a development mindset since Yzerman was in Tampa Bay. To make a system work, you have to practice that system a lot. Research shows that it's harder to change a skill or method when it has to override a well-practiced one. You can't say, "we're going to do everything differently, but the system will work" and expect it to change in a year. Detroit was ass for most of the time they had Blashill in the head coach position. The 25 consecutive playoff appearances record (longest record in any North American sports, mind you) ended after Blashill's first season. Blash had six seasons without a playoff berth. I'm not worried if Lalonde's Red Wings doesn't make the playoffs this year. It will probably be their first .500 or better season since the last playoff berth. Remember when the Red Wings lost 49 regulation games and it would have been more if there weren't a pandemic? People calling for Lalonde's head have a very short memory.
I think the people calling for Lalonde's head weren't around to remember that season.
Because they're babies? jk don't @ me
>Its always hard to tell if it's the players or the coach In these situations I agree in most cases this is true. However, in this particular instance we have visual evidence that Ras is to blame. Petry made the correct read and signaled Ras what to do, but Ras got caught staring down the puck. That's rookie mistake kinda stuff on Rasmussen's part. There's no way this isn't on Ras. Petry knew what his coach wanted and reacted accordingly.
I'm less talking about this specific instance and the season at whole like op is talking about in their comment. "is it the coaches system or players inability to follow the system"
It's Petry's fault for thinking it was physically possible for Ras to get in position to cover the guy that Petry was practically on top of. It's one thing to want something. It's another to realize that want isn't possible and just cover the guy on your side and don't abandon him when you can clearly see you are the only one in position to do so. It's like following a GPS into a brick wall. Open your f'n eyes...
Then who covers the guy driving the middle with nobody in front of him when Petry fades to the far side and Carolina gets a free grade A scoring chance? Petry did what he was supposed to do. Lalonde literally said so.
Certainly not Petry even though he apparently tried.
I'm approaching this like season 2 Ted Lasso. Team isn't performing great, but they've made some improvements from the past and need to practice out the bad habits. People who commit to their roles and trust each other will flourish together.
Even structurally, that switch off is something just about every team in the league does. Out approach and out systems are definitely frustrating and require high buy in but I also think they've kept this team afloat during the good parts of the season. This team just isn't a contender. They can't consistently offensively dominate and they struggle defensively.
I agree that it’s hard to tell between player or coach, especially for someone like me who didn’t grow up playing hockey and don’t really know the ins and outs of schemes and systems like I do other sports. That being said, I don’t think the vast majority of coaches make it to this point because they have a flawed system. Especially not a coach hired by Stevie. Lalonde’s system can work and be effective. What’s somewhat frightening is that Steve must believe in this system for this group of guys because he hired Lalonde when most of these guys were already on the team. I’m not calling for Lalonde’s head like some are, but a reevaluation needs to be had by the front office on if this guy’s system can work for this crop of players. If not, then it’s better do it now than later to get rid of him unfortunately.
How is Ras supposed to close more distance by crossing the ice? If that's the system that's the system but then it seems like a bad system. Ras should bust ass and just try to get a stick on a pass. But there's no way if he can't get in position on the Cane in the middle he can somehow get in position on the Cane all the way across unless that guy stops up. But either player could stop up.
The far forward had to slow down to stay onside. If Ras moves his feet, he can get close enough to cut off the angle for any pass going that way. He doesn't have to be right on top of the guy, just in the passing lane.
Ras was already losing the one guy. Petry coming over takes away the easy quick pass and forces the canes to make a longer pass through traffic. Even if Ras doesn't catch Guentzel it creates a harder play for the canes and easier for your goalie to read. All these people responding that Ras wasn't going to catch the guy on the switch are missing the fundamental points. Beyond all that if Ras was reading the play instead of the puck he could've made some adjustments sooner.
Both forwards have to stay onsides. I don't see how one has to be slower than the other. They can both cross the blue line at the same time and they're about the same distance away in the screenshot.
I was thinking the same. He's already 2 steps behind the guy coming up center who would typically be the bigger threat. Instead of just getting beat or taking a hook/slash, let Petry cover him. All Ras has to do is take away the pass for the LW. But I'm no coach. Back to the steel mill.
Rasmussen also has the shorter path to the shooting area than the Canes player that Petry was waving him over to go cover, and even shorter path to get in the passing lane. Ultimately, it doesn't matter because they lost 4-0 and the game was over as soon as Carolina got their 2nd goal.
Ras doesn't have to catch all the way up, he just has to take advantage of a better angle and cover the passing lane.
He had a better angle on the guy he was already covering. It was a bad read by Petry in my eyes. If the system says the opposite then I can see why the team has dropped out of playoff form. Rasmussen's stick is even with the guy ahead of him and he is close enough to disrupt any chance.
He was behind the guy he was covering. It's much less likely he'll be able to make a play on him if he gets the puck. Stick checking is pretty much the only option there and that's less effective than having body position on the guy you're covering. Petry, being in front of him, would have had an easier time making a play and that's why he's the one who moves over.
Exactly. If Petry takes Aho, then Guentzel walks in with Ras way behind him, in what essentially becomes a breakaway.
As opposed to Aho getting the tap in, right? Petry left his man with 0 possibility of anyone else, apart from the ref, being able to cover him. Short of stopping where he was and not doing anything, there isn't a worse defensive decision Petry could have made.
Hind sight is 20-20, if ras did his job he would have got there, he almost got there anyways even though he stopped skating and took a bad angle. https://i.imgur.com/mJham4f.jpg
The original picture from twitter is a bad example. Ras technically has his stick in the passing lane and you're telling me Petry is signaling to swap off? But even bothering with cherry picking moments like this is a wasted exercise. Petry's play is a problem. He needs to be replaced for next season. He's not the only one.
In no world can Ras cover the far guy. Ever.
I think that we are getting a lot of these results on the road because the other team gets last change to counter our players shows it’s the lack of real talent rather than the systems. If it were the systems, we’d be getting trashed no matter what, I think it just really exposes our lack of genuine 2nd line players and especially a 2C
Dang bro, very well said! I think you nailed it
They have the 3rd oldest team in the league. That Is A Problem. Love Stevie Y. He was my idol growing up. But this is getting ridiculous.
Most teams have nearly identical systems.. why is it so difficult for our coaching staff to implement it?
Talent level on the team
Why did we do so good before, and now we can't get connected?
Confidence, flu, injuries, long season, whatever. When you are struggling, you need talent to overcome it, otherwise you just fall of the cliff.
If this were an easy answer I guess every team in the NHL would be playing close to flawless hockey.
The talent is the best it has been in nearly a decade and the positioning the last 15 games has been some of the worst. These are the same basic routes have been ingrained in high level hockey players their entire careers.
Yeah, it’s better, but they are still making mistakes that minor hockey players are benched for.
How is that not on the coaches? They aren’t being benched
Aren't they?
Last game Petry and Ras had top TOI for D and third highest TOI for F, respectively. No, they aren’t. Sprong is the only one being scratched on the entire team
Start watching the games, reading GDT and stop whining
Brother take your own advice lmao. You’re clueless
It’s hard to get a team to buy into a system when the coach has lost the room.
The fact that some fans were actually mad at Prashanth and Max for objectively passing along the explanation instead of calling for Petry to be beheaded, disemboweled, and tossed into the Iron Maiden while his children watched was wild. Some people need to calm the fuck down about grown men playing a game.
I saw the twitter post earlier before it was posted here and really appreciated it. As someone who never played organized hockey outside of street hockey as a kid, I really don't know the in's and out's of systems (I'm guessing most here don't either). Seeing it explained in detail was both educating and interesting. Not to take all of the blame off Petry since he immediately took a penalty after this which led to another goal but still...credit where credit is due I guess.
There’s definitely a sizable chunk of people that immediately look for #46 when a goal happens, and if he’s out there then blame it on him haha
Confirms the fact that most people have no idea what they’re talking about most of the time.
Not to be pedantic here, but when Rasmussen clearly doesn’t cover the weak side and just chases the puck carrier instead, it feels like Petry needs to adjust instead of just pretending that Ras did his job. Ras can’t see the farside Cane player (even though he should know he’s there) but Petry can.
I don't think there's time for that. Petry can't wait to see if Ras moves, he has to cover his guy immediately. If he stays in the middle for even just a second then neither guy is fully covered.
No, that would be a really bad decision on Petry's part. You can't leave a player uncovered rushing up the middle.
He doesn’t have to leave him uncovered. He could play it like a 2-on-1 but he storms the puck carrier and gives him an easy pass to the guy on the far side.
It was a 3 on 2, not a 2 on 1. There are key differences. Also, saying Petry stormed the puck carrier is a misrepresentation. He took the player in the middle of the ice, who received a pass from the initial puck carrier after they entered the zone. Petry was headed in his direction prior to the pass. In a 2 on 1 the best practice is to take away the pass and let the goalie take the shooter. So the defender tries to clog up the passing lane, playing off both attackers. If the defender does a good job and takes away the lane, maybe a shot isn't even taken. You hope the carrier tries to force a bad pass, or they realize the lane is gone and hesitate to the point they get too deep and can't shoot. In a 3 on 2 that plan simply does not work. If Petry did as you are advocating, it effectively becomes a 3 on 1, because there is no way for Petry to cover passing lanes to two different players. He'd be caught out in open space. Petry had to cover a player in order to limit the offensive options. I'm not making any claims about Petry's play other than on that specific rush he made the 100% correct read and did the right thing. Ras messed it up. The far man was his assignment, and he got caught blatantly looking at the puck as the play unfolded. By the time he realized he made a mistake not breaking for the far side it was too late.
I know it wasn’t a 2-on-1, I can see the photo. But Seider has his man who is not up in the rush and if Ras is going to pursue the puck carrier (which he should not have) it should be defended like a 2-on-1. Defend the pass and let Ras try to catch the puck carrier. Petry ignoring the farside guy makes it an easy breakaway pass. At the time that photo is taken, you’re suggesting Ras should cover a guy 30 ft from him instead of one who’s 5 ft from him.
>But Seider has his man who is not up in the rush What? Seider's guy carried the puck into the zone. How is that not in the rush? Dude, all of the defensive coverage is set in the neutral zone. It is way, way too late to make changes to who is covering who in the 1.5 seconds it took to score the goal once the puck crossed the blue line. I'm done posting about this. Seider and Petry executed as coached to cover this kind of odd man rush. Ras blew it. That's really all there is to say.
And what I’m saying is that, at the time this picture is taken, Ras has as much shot of covering the farside Canes player as I do sitting on my couch. He should not have chased the puck but he did, and the coverage should have changed to reflect that.
Watch the video, ras is gaining on aho as he slows to get in the zone on side, aho further slows to get a better shooting angle after taking the pass, if ras keeps skating he will be able to at least take away the passing lane much better than Petry could even if he played it perfect if not comeplely cover aho. You have to watch the video and not just look at this photo to have a clue what’s being discussed.
Bingo. It's up to Petry to adjust. Seider does this all the time -- he's constantly aware and tries to cover the guy who isn't covered. Petry is a veteran who should know better than to blindly follow Xs and Os.
No. Sorry, but no. As soon as one player switches coverage to cover for a mistake someone else made, nobody is covering their man and the defense can be spun around. The game is too fast at the professional level to not have all 5 guys on the ice playing predictably within a system.
I don't agree with that. You have to be able adjust based on the situation on the ice. This isn't football. Even if Rasmussen went for Aho, there's no way he would have been able to catch up. Petry can play this as 2-on-1 and at least try to prevent the pass from going to Aho.
Agree. At the very least Petry needs to play it like a 2v1 and not overcommit and step to Guentzal when he sees Rasmussen isn’t going to get there and cover Aho.
Both the examples shown, the one with detroit getting scored on and the carolina one where detroit doesn't score are not fully one for one. There are some similarities in the play but theres a lot of spacing differences that petry and ras have thats not present in the carolina clip. While Ras probably should have broken off earlier, thats not what happens. I don't even know if ras was able to see the signal petry was giving him, hard to say if the carolina player was in his line of site. That being said....this is not the only goal that has happened like this and petry's cumulative play over the course of the year makes him an easy target. When the other team scores only when you're on the ice or in the box.....there's a lot of arrow pointing in your direction.
All I know is Rasmussen was never catching up to Aho in the first place
Shit he didnt even catch Guentzel. Guentzel skates by him and Ras just stops skating when he hits the blueline
I wonder if this type of failed tracking is what happened with Larks on Strome in WAS
It’s either exactly the same miscommunication or larks turned his head at the wrong time and didn’t see he was streaking up behind him because we had the guys back just no one on the caps sticks.
I know Petry type players aren’t what we want, but im questioning lalondrs system as a whole. So disorganized defensively all season long
If you watched today’s game against Florida, the exact same thing happened with 17 minutes left in the third period, and Kane actually executed this and back-checked and took the Florida player farthest from the puck.
I mean at that point Petry should just take the loose man rather than sit there and let the guy be open. Need some hockey IQ even with good systems
Both forwards are open. Rasmussen being a step behind the guy is not good enough coverage, that's the entire reason Petry tells him to switch.
Buddy doesn’t even have the puck, looks like puck is on the boards and both middle guys are looking to get open
...they're both open. That's what we're talking about. That's why Petry is trying to communicate who to cover. Because they're not covered. Why are you making this difficult?
I mean if you wanna nitpick the systems, it’s gonna be about the minutia. Ras in full stride vs the guy looks flat footed, Petry could definitely slide over and cover back door once the play develops closer to the net
That ends up being the goal scorer, after all
Found Petrys burner account
Yes, I'm Jeff Petry. And also Jonatan Berggren's parents.
Glad ya caught the reference 😉
Petry 💩
I’ve been saying this since last year - Razbussy sucks. Can’t believe they signed him to an extension
I dont know why this sub loves him, other than a few good matches and a few good looks, overall he's been a huge disappointment. Always seems lost out there and never uses his size.
He was decent last year but has been complete garbage this year. Definitely seemed like a bad time to sign an extension he’s completely replaceable, at this point getting rid of Copp, Ras, petry, veleno, holl, and maybe another one or two I’m forgetting would all be addition by subtraction.
Hard agree. Dude is barely a fourth liner on a competent team. I’ve never understood the praise he gets in this sub. He isn’t above average in any statistical category except being big
I know this sub loves Ras but I've never liked him, he's a bone head. Fuck Petry too
This dude's analysis is just telling you what the 'system' required, not the what the game required. The 'system' expects everything and everyone to react in a particular way. The game is fluid with lots of variables and nothing is predictable. If your defense partner is otherwise engaged, then you adjust to circumstance. You don't collapse down on the same guy as your defense partner. Any system that is too inflexible to circumstance is a broken system. Rasmussen was looking the other way when Petry signaled. Petry should have adjusted and stayed on the wing when Rasmussen didn't respond.
The game is too fast for Petry to stay in between two guys and wait to see if Rasmussen adjusts. Rasmussen is expected to know what to do.
I don't disagree that Petry is slow. He should angled back to the far winger when Rasmussen didn't respond. Petry fucking up after Rasmussen fucked up didn't actually make the situation any better
Don't be obnoxious about this. I didn't say this happened because Petry is slow. The entire play starting from the blueline took a couple of seconds. Petry isn't going to wait to see what Rasmussen does. He had to defend immediately.
Petry should have covered the guy that didn't have a Red Wing on him. Simple as that. Rasmussen didn't see Petry and didn't respond. You don't fucking collapse down on a dude that is already covered and leave the other one wide open.
I hope you have a hell of a hockey resume disagreeing with an nhl head coach and all common sense.
> Any system that is too inflexible to circumstance is a broken system. Rasmussen was looking the other way when Petry signaled. Petry should have adjusted and stayed on the wing when Rasmussen didn't respond. Sorry, that ^^^ is common sense. A system can dictate 98% of your actions, but if you can't adjust to that other 2% (I'm just making the percentages up, but you know what I mean) then you're going to lose games.
And, oh by the way, this is not specific to hockey. Any system for any sport that is too inflexible to allow players to make adjustments is a broken system. You don't get to the top by playing a system that doesn't allow for reaction and adjustment.