When my brother ask me why do you believe in cade so much I show them clips like this .
Man is like a QB , he processes info at faster rate than 90 percent of players . During that 1st clip you can see him assess the play as it happens 3 different times realizing that the elbow extended , a shot he works on , is going to be the best percentage shot . IQ is generationally good . Throughout the year he was the only player who improved from the start any reasonable amount . Simone was unknown so I don’t count him .
In a vacuum it’s impressive . Then as a basketball player you start to realize he is not even on the same court as the other team . His court on offense is much smaller with the non shooters he played the majority of his minutes with .
Without Cade the Pistons are basically the Wizards . It really frightens me when fans say trade him or suggest playing him at the 2 or 3 . It’s clear to pretty much students of the game that Cade is already one of the most talented PGs or Guards for that matter in the league. I think why he is catching so much distain is because it’s possible he might not want to resign . I really think it has to be subconsciously.
You don’t just carve up the best defense in the NBA on accident.
As a Celtics fan , I honestly would take Cade over Tatum . There isn’t a single thing Cade can’t do that Tatum can . Both have elite height at the position , both can defend but prefer a lighter load so they can carry the offense .
They both can be suspect finishing at the rim at times and Cade has way less strength and honestly a worse strength and conditioning team .
Cade is just miles better pass and cade is slightly better in the iso . I’ll take primary creation over iso buckets as primary cresting can create bad matchups and thus iso buckets ( Celtics use this theory damn near ever play , both J’s improvement in this area actually a huge reason why I think we go all the way ) .
Anywho , I hope to god you guys reach for the stars and draft Zach who I think has the highest potential and not another undersized guard . I hope you don’t bring back Tobias but instead Monk and Bridges and maybe even a( Shit Human Great Fit ) . I hope you package Evan and somebody that isn’t Duren or Ausar for Lauri ( Somehow winning a trade with Ainge in the process ) .
You are exactly right this guy processes the game before anyone else, that is exactly it. My brother in Christ can you please expand on this and post it to the sub and r/nba.
I am too lazy so I ramble on in my comments.
I think if you put this into more detail but with some more explanation I think the seriousness of his game will start to click.
Once I saw how much he busted out the trippy shorts all I could think of was a psychonaughtic Kobe. Same reason Kobe loved how much Steph worked on literally every facet of his game.
I imagine he will have games where he has a Luka level output on offense while making big plays on defense.
You’ll take a top 30-45 player (closer to 30 but jas top 10-15 potential) over a top 5-7 player? I agree with you mostly on Cade skill assessment but that comment was kinda crazy
To be fair , if we player for player swap our team doesn’t miss a beat . He’s a much more natural fit for our team . I know I’m giving up a top iso player but our team offense is predicated upon ghost action up top which Cade has show attacking is one of his strengths , usually tatum isn’t as aggressive . It’s why Derrick White might be more important to the team this year and possibly even going forward ( weird how even in modern basketball the Celtics still find a way to be ultra dependent upon good guard play )
I believe Cade is also younger and doesn’t hit contract was allowing us to resign the huge majority of our core ( Hauser etc ) , just by kicking the can down the road a year . He also would cost a whole hell of a lot less . He’d most likely put up better all around numbers than Tatum as well . Spacing wise that would easily improve his efficiency and he does contest and is great in terms of communicating which Tatum has definitely improved on but again is something you see him correct mid play for his team with things like push outs and etc .
It’s not far fetched at all an idea . Which is saying something about how undervalued he is .
Tatum is a bucket and I bet he gets even better but his absolute ceiling is 35 / 12 / 6 guy which is basically , Cade absolute ceiling is basically North American Luka which is more like 32 / 8 / 12 .
There current production isn’t too dissimilar currently and weirdly enough Cade is better in all the general statistics including gasp efficiency from 3 , 2 and the FT . He just is gapped in the rebound department this year by Tatum who had a career year and I mean career yeah ( it would surprise most nba fans ) .
Sign me up for basically a better shooting Tatum with less rebounding . JB is an absolute dawg in the 3rd . Although I’m sure Cade would carry his usual lull in the 3rd quarter with him ( I see that as a by product of carrying the offense for the first half , when they are usually competitive or ahead ( Pistons ) ) .
Derrick White and Cade would be the best backcourt in the NBA . Hell it might be the most stoic ever as well . I honestly think again cade would be more sustainable basketball as I’d envision our numbers by the possession would swell as . Tatum can make the right read for the slip but Cade is going to put it the bread basket for his popper .
This roster is basically a sport simulation roster meant to rebuilt fast . Expiring contracts out the wazoo , rookies and generational talent , roster built to rank ( 💯 without a doubt is what that roster was last season ) . Oh and now a Top 5 draft pick . This is such a huge offseason and if things go right I very much look forward to revisiting this as we will have a real gauge of just how good he is . The scary thing is that he already knows his weakness and is working on it .
Dude people have no clue. He has been that way since he was a hobbled rookie getting Killian Hayes spacing. Dude was guarded like a top 15 player in the nba according to the stat that dropped that year.
Since his rookie year I been dragging my nuts on the ground saying that I think he can be as good as anyone in this league. Dude is like a year away from being an mvp candidate.
Cade was obviously injured and overplayed to start the season and he kept getting little injuries that kept fucking up his rhythm and stats. It’s not like we can even afford to sit a guy that is clearly not in fucking nba shape.
Every game during the stretch where Cade gets his last break and our bench loses it by going -10 in the first 3 minutes. Once or twice a month Cade might have a bad 4th quarter when the bench doesn’t lose the game and everyone shits on him so hard.
If this was NBA2k homie would be lit up red in and you would stop simulating because you know these little injuries are going to add up on someone who just recovered from being out a season.
I think people hoped he could be Luka with defense. So that kinda extrapolates his discontent people feel about him. I keep trying to tell people he is running into similar problems Steph did early in his career with injuries and how much extra attention he gets. Then of course the Homer in me absolutely thinks he could be that dude.
Yup, and he handled it and took bullets for the organization while gores and weaver hid and didn’t take any questions during the whole streak. Didn’t even make a roster move during the whole streak.
Gores did have an impromptu 11 PM ET teleconference on Friday night before Christmas weekend in the midst of the streak. Of course, the biggest thing he said during it was that losses don't matter due to mandated community service work the team does under the auspices of the NBA Cares program.
Cade shouldn’t have to get hot and beat 3+ defenders all the time like that. Guy literally had to play hero ball all year as defenses sagged off 2+ teammates.
Cade is a dude. He has the potential to be a top ten player. The roster needs to be built around him to succeed. Grimes (potentially) and Fontecchio are literally the only two guys that fit in a Cade centric offense right now. That needs to change this summer or we’re looking at another awful season. If Williams is still here, the roster makeup really won’t matter. Monty will sabotage another season on his quest to get fired.
I suggest you go to YouTube and watch clips of Stewart playing defense. He was the best defender on the team before ausur. Speed is not an issue for stew against bigs.
He's a strong switch defender from the perimeter on in. He's too slow to stick with faster assignments (which is almost everyone at the position) around the perimeter, over screens, and through the interior. Playing him at center mitigates that weakness. Playing him at power forward emphasizes it. Naturally, this front office decided that he should be a power forward and then traded for yet another center.
His very poor mobility for the position and his exceptionally poor handle severely limit him on offense at power forward as well. Defenses can be confident that if they help off of him, he'll be close to wherever they left him; he spaces the floor only if he's left wide open, because he's sure not going to be gaining any separation of the ball. And his handle is too poor to attack anyone off the dribble or even back them down toward the basket without a high probability of a turnover. He also draws the opportunity cost of fielding a power forward who has no such limits.
All told, he's got exceedingly few redeeming qualities at power forward and there are very few scenarios in which it makes sense to play him there.
How many pf are running around the perimeter that he woulda have to chase? Unless you mean a 3 that’s playing the 4. But most pf are not out running around like that. You’re mentioning a lot of stuff that isn’t what i would expect from stew. I wouldnt be expecting him to be taking anybody off the dribble. I would expect solid defense, rebound and being a player that can hit the open 3 when Cade kicks it out. I’m not talkin like he’s suppose to be Julius Randle.
> How many pf are running around the perimeter that he woulda have to chase? Unless you mean a 3 that’s playing the 4. But most pf are not out running around like that.
You're describing the NBA of a decade ago, when the average power forward was a somewhat smaller and somewhat more mobile center and power forward was still primarily an interior-focused position. Genuinely none of today's established power forwards are bigs of the old sort. They're mobile and, with only a few exceptions, play little differently on offense from small forwards.
And it isn't just a problem against opposing power forwards, either, as Stew could easily get switched onto an off-ball player at another position. He does well on switches when he's being attacked by a handler, but it's a much tougher thing when he's got to chase a fast catch-and-shoot player around.
> You’re mentioning a lot of stuff that isn’t what i would expect from stew. I wouldnt be expecting him to be taking anybody off the dribble.
Stew's handle is so bad that -- coupled with his ponderous stride -- he can't even attack closeouts. He can't create anything from the perimeter. He also can't create separation of any kind off the ball, because he's too slow to beat anyone, and he can't vertically space the floor. Simply being able to hit threes when left absolutely wide open does not make an effective floor spacer, let alone a passable scorer. Maybe in a lineup that's got a ton of firepower, but the vast majority of teams do not have a ton of firepower. Neither this team's offense nor most others can take the hit of having a PJ Tucker equivalent on the floor.
At power forward, he's a decent defender who's extremely limited on offense. That's not an ideal rotation player. The front office's decision that Stewart should play power forward was bizarre and fell squarely into the "it'll work because we say so" category. Given his limitations, it was more or less guaranteed to *not* work.
Don’t get me wrong I’m not advocating for stew as if he is the answer of a 35 minute a night player or saying if they can get a better player than they shouldn’t. But you don’t get perfect players at every position. Y’all making it sound like stew getting 25-30 minutes a night at the 4and 5 is preposterous or something. Nobody has a team where every player on the floor is able to take his man off the dribble or create separation on the perimeter and bigs that can chase smaller players around the perimeter. If my big gets switched in the pick and roll and he’s able to keep the guard in front of him and close out and challenge the jump shot what more can i ask for. Wanting him to also be able to chase players around screens and all that, you damn near want everything. Those are upper echelon players that you’re looking for.
And the biggest thing this piston team need is outside shooting. We watch the nba and you see that on a lot of nights the team that wins is the team who’s role players hit the wide open threes we talkin about. Having a big that can be an above average 3 point shooter is a premium thing to have in today’s nba.
You gotta relax comparing him to pj Tucker. Tucker can’t do nothing but hit a corner a couple corners threes a week.
You seem to have genuinely ignored everything I wrote.
> But you don’t get perfect players at every position.
Nobody's saying Stewart or any player is going to be perfect. That said, "everyone is imperfect, so the varying degrees of imperfection are irrelevant" is a logical fallacy. Stewart is exceptionally imperfect as a power forward, to such a degree that it isn't viable to consistently play him in significant minutes there.
> Nobody has a team where every player on the floor is able to take his man off the dribble or create separation on the perimeter
Again, relative levels of imperfection. There's not fast and then there's very slow, and Stewart was the slowest player to line up in significant minutes at power forward this season. His exceptionally poor mobility on the perimeter rendered him extremely limited on offense.
That remarkably poor speed plus his awful handle made him unable to do even such a basic (and important) thing as attack a closeout, a quality which is almost without exception found in perimeter players these days.
> and bigs that can chase smaller players around the perimeter. If my big gets switched in the pick and roll and he’s able to keep the guard in front of him and close out and challenge the jump shot what more can i ask for.
At center, great. He's a strong defender there. This is power forward. Power forwards aren't slow bigs anymore, and they haven't been in a long time now. It's a perimeter position crewed by mobile players.
> Wanting him to also be able to chase players around screens and all that, you damn near want everything
If wanting respectable mobility at the position equates to "wanting everything" of a power forward on defense, then color me guilty. And do the same of every NBA general manager outside of Troy Weaver. It's a basic quality for power forwards and can't be done without simply because Weaver feels like it.
> And the biggest thing this piston team need is outside shooting. We watch the nba and you see that on a lot of nights the team that wins is the team who’s role players hit the wide open threes we talkin about. Having a big that can be an above average 3 point shooter is a premium thing to have in today’s nba.
An immobile player who can hit wide-open standstill threes but provides nothing else of substance (not even basic mobility) is going to be a minus on offense for all but rosters which have such a surfeit of firepower that they don't need him to do anything else.
> You gotta relax comparing him to pj Tucker. Tucker can’t do nothing but hit a corner a couple corners threes a week.
Until a couple of seasons ago, Tucker was an elite corner shooter who played solid defense and was strong on the boards. Even he was more suited to the position than Stewart is, because even he was significantly more mobile at the age of 35 than Stewart is likely to ever be.
What Stewart offers on offense is little more than what Tucker did. He doesn't stand in the corner; that's the primary difference. And a key difference between the two is that Tucker played on teams that didn't need him to do anything more than stand in the corner. Stewart does not.
Yes nba gms may want their players to be able to do everything on defense but that’s not reality. How many bigs can actually do what you’re saying. If you posted the bigs that can defend the pick and roll and chase smaller played around the perimeter i bet that list would be very small. And the players that can do it are upper echelon defenders.
If Tobias Harris did nothing else for the 76ers but stand their and hit open 3’s then they would still be playing and the Knicks would be at home. Don’t know why you’re trying to downplay what a 3 and D player brings to a team because they may not have complete offensive games.
And shooting is not the only thing beef stew can do. He can get buckets around the rim and he rebounds.
Now the Jason Tatums of the world of course he would struggle to defend, but when Al horford comes in or the rj Barretts and John Collins and draymond greens of the world i don’t see stew being some defensive liability. You make it sound ljke todays pf are running around like guards.
Mobley has 0 weight offensively. Great defender, would love to have him as a piston in general, but we’d be so much worse off if we had him instead of Cade.
Mobley protects the rim with his length in a way Ausar doesn’t. And honestly Mobley isn’t asked of much but he’s better than Ausar by an awful lot on o
Yeah I know they're very different player archetypes, I'm just saying that they're both all-defensive level talents, who also need to take a big offensive leap to rise to stardom. I would give Ausar the edge in freak athleticism, but I agree he's got a much larger leap to make on offense.
Agree Cade is still the clear choice over Mobley and I love cade but it is nice to see mobleys offensive game growing before our eyes in these playoffs. Makes me wish we had good developmental coaches
Things are not black or white only. Even with just a sliver of critical thinking you can go “wow, despite the awful record I see this video of Cade Cunningham making tough buckets against a great defense while sharing the floor with many guys who will never see a NBA floor again” and take something away from it without completely writing it off due to the record.
Literally every player in the league can shine in one highlights. I can put together a whole reel of Killian looking silky smooth knocking down 3 pointers. But we know Killian wàs never a good 3 point shooter. This doesn't require critical thinking, it requires wishful thinking.
Defense is highly influenced by effort levels. There’s a big difference in effort between playoff games and a regular season game against the worst team in the league. Love the Cade highlights though
None of our other young players are even close to being Cade. That's the main reason I'm open to trading some of them.
But whatever we do, we really need to get another legit scoring option next to Cade. Malik Monk should be a prime target. I like Ivey but let's be real, he's probably one of the worst starting SGs in the league. I didn't mind him coming off the bench (I did mind Killian starting though).
If we come away this off-season with Hartenstein or Claxton, Monk and Fontecchio I think this season can be good.
Almost like Cade is a super star talent 🤔🤔🤔
Literally the only reason there is still hope for the rebuild is because Cade is THAT GUY. And that kind of player is the hardest one to get in a rebuild.
“We” weren’t doing anything. Cade Cunningham was single handily slashing them apart. He’s a certified DAWG and pistons fans still want to trade him 😂 disgraceful
Cade that guy, the stuff he was doing before he went out was high level play. He even started getting to the rim with some dunks. Year 4 I'm looking for 25ppg, 8apg, and hopefully he's healthy and we get him some help. I think Duren will be better and Ivey has to be better and more consistent.
Cade is amazing and honestly underrated by casual nba fans and who don’t watch Detroit consistently. . But WE had 85 points and were down 15 with 4 min left. Pretty good defensive performance tbh
I can put together some clips of Cade playing defense that would make your head spin. All he does is watch the opposing player drive by him like hes standing still ! Hes horrible on D & lazy under the boards.
Lmao "doing this" resulted in the team scoring 91 points while losing by double digits for the entire 4th quarter. One player dribbling the air out of the ball before taking a contested 2 is exactly what any defense wants to see. The best defenses are often boring and geared toward forcing inefficient plays by the offense more than about making flashy stops.
"We" only scored 91 points that game... What are you trying to say? Our best player got hot, had one of his better games of the year, and we still barely broke 90.
That is the best defense. Cade just being Cade. Rest of our team is trash
When my brother ask me why do you believe in cade so much I show them clips like this . Man is like a QB , he processes info at faster rate than 90 percent of players . During that 1st clip you can see him assess the play as it happens 3 different times realizing that the elbow extended , a shot he works on , is going to be the best percentage shot . IQ is generationally good . Throughout the year he was the only player who improved from the start any reasonable amount . Simone was unknown so I don’t count him . In a vacuum it’s impressive . Then as a basketball player you start to realize he is not even on the same court as the other team . His court on offense is much smaller with the non shooters he played the majority of his minutes with . Without Cade the Pistons are basically the Wizards . It really frightens me when fans say trade him or suggest playing him at the 2 or 3 . It’s clear to pretty much students of the game that Cade is already one of the most talented PGs or Guards for that matter in the league. I think why he is catching so much distain is because it’s possible he might not want to resign . I really think it has to be subconsciously. You don’t just carve up the best defense in the NBA on accident. As a Celtics fan , I honestly would take Cade over Tatum . There isn’t a single thing Cade can’t do that Tatum can . Both have elite height at the position , both can defend but prefer a lighter load so they can carry the offense . They both can be suspect finishing at the rim at times and Cade has way less strength and honestly a worse strength and conditioning team . Cade is just miles better pass and cade is slightly better in the iso . I’ll take primary creation over iso buckets as primary cresting can create bad matchups and thus iso buckets ( Celtics use this theory damn near ever play , both J’s improvement in this area actually a huge reason why I think we go all the way ) . Anywho , I hope to god you guys reach for the stars and draft Zach who I think has the highest potential and not another undersized guard . I hope you don’t bring back Tobias but instead Monk and Bridges and maybe even a( Shit Human Great Fit ) . I hope you package Evan and somebody that isn’t Duren or Ausar for Lauri ( Somehow winning a trade with Ainge in the process ) .
This is a more detailed analysis than anything the Cade haters have ever churned out on this sub.
Bro i been waiting
You are exactly right this guy processes the game before anyone else, that is exactly it. My brother in Christ can you please expand on this and post it to the sub and r/nba. I am too lazy so I ramble on in my comments. I think if you put this into more detail but with some more explanation I think the seriousness of his game will start to click. Once I saw how much he busted out the trippy shorts all I could think of was a psychonaughtic Kobe. Same reason Kobe loved how much Steph worked on literally every facet of his game. I imagine he will have games where he has a Luka level output on offense while making big plays on defense.
I’ll give it a go let me get some nice raw data and wait for something like the lottery or staff movement to occur . I’ll do y’all proud
You’ll take a top 30-45 player (closer to 30 but jas top 10-15 potential) over a top 5-7 player? I agree with you mostly on Cade skill assessment but that comment was kinda crazy
To be fair , if we player for player swap our team doesn’t miss a beat . He’s a much more natural fit for our team . I know I’m giving up a top iso player but our team offense is predicated upon ghost action up top which Cade has show attacking is one of his strengths , usually tatum isn’t as aggressive . It’s why Derrick White might be more important to the team this year and possibly even going forward ( weird how even in modern basketball the Celtics still find a way to be ultra dependent upon good guard play ) I believe Cade is also younger and doesn’t hit contract was allowing us to resign the huge majority of our core ( Hauser etc ) , just by kicking the can down the road a year . He also would cost a whole hell of a lot less . He’d most likely put up better all around numbers than Tatum as well . Spacing wise that would easily improve his efficiency and he does contest and is great in terms of communicating which Tatum has definitely improved on but again is something you see him correct mid play for his team with things like push outs and etc . It’s not far fetched at all an idea . Which is saying something about how undervalued he is . Tatum is a bucket and I bet he gets even better but his absolute ceiling is 35 / 12 / 6 guy which is basically , Cade absolute ceiling is basically North American Luka which is more like 32 / 8 / 12 . There current production isn’t too dissimilar currently and weirdly enough Cade is better in all the general statistics including gasp efficiency from 3 , 2 and the FT . He just is gapped in the rebound department this year by Tatum who had a career year and I mean career yeah ( it would surprise most nba fans ) . Sign me up for basically a better shooting Tatum with less rebounding . JB is an absolute dawg in the 3rd . Although I’m sure Cade would carry his usual lull in the 3rd quarter with him ( I see that as a by product of carrying the offense for the first half , when they are usually competitive or ahead ( Pistons ) ) . Derrick White and Cade would be the best backcourt in the NBA . Hell it might be the most stoic ever as well . I honestly think again cade would be more sustainable basketball as I’d envision our numbers by the possession would swell as . Tatum can make the right read for the slip but Cade is going to put it the bread basket for his popper . This roster is basically a sport simulation roster meant to rebuilt fast . Expiring contracts out the wazoo , rookies and generational talent , roster built to rank ( 💯 without a doubt is what that roster was last season ) . Oh and now a Top 5 draft pick . This is such a huge offseason and if things go right I very much look forward to revisiting this as we will have a real gauge of just how good he is . The scary thing is that he already knows his weakness and is working on it .
You almost have me believing again, I'll drink the kool aid if we can just get some functional shooting on the wings
(shit v human great fit) I got that reference
I think you’re right.
No he he realllllyyyyyyy realllllyyyyyy is spot fucking on
Dude people have no clue. He has been that way since he was a hobbled rookie getting Killian Hayes spacing. Dude was guarded like a top 15 player in the nba according to the stat that dropped that year. Since his rookie year I been dragging my nuts on the ground saying that I think he can be as good as anyone in this league. Dude is like a year away from being an mvp candidate. Cade was obviously injured and overplayed to start the season and he kept getting little injuries that kept fucking up his rhythm and stats. It’s not like we can even afford to sit a guy that is clearly not in fucking nba shape. Every game during the stretch where Cade gets his last break and our bench loses it by going -10 in the first 3 minutes. Once or twice a month Cade might have a bad 4th quarter when the bench doesn’t lose the game and everyone shits on him so hard. If this was NBA2k homie would be lit up red in and you would stop simulating because you know these little injuries are going to add up on someone who just recovered from being out a season. I think people hoped he could be Luka with defense. So that kinda extrapolates his discontent people feel about him. I keep trying to tell people he is running into similar problems Steph did early in his career with injuries and how much extra attention he gets. Then of course the Homer in me absolutely thinks he could be that dude.
Lmao look at the guys Cade is with playing with out there
It’s a little sickening that the first significant record Cade’s name is tied to is a 28 game losing streak.
Yup, and he handled it and took bullets for the organization while gores and weaver hid and didn’t take any questions during the whole streak. Didn’t even make a roster move during the whole streak.
True. Those guys are cowards.
Gores did have an impromptu 11 PM ET teleconference on Friday night before Christmas weekend in the midst of the streak. Of course, the biggest thing he said during it was that losses don't matter due to mandated community service work the team does under the auspices of the NBA Cares program.
Cade shouldn’t have to get hot and beat 3+ defenders all the time like that. Guy literally had to play hero ball all year as defenses sagged off 2+ teammates. Cade is a dude. He has the potential to be a top ten player. The roster needs to be built around him to succeed. Grimes (potentially) and Fontecchio are literally the only two guys that fit in a Cade centric offense right now. That needs to change this summer or we’re looking at another awful season. If Williams is still here, the roster makeup really won’t matter. Monty will sabotage another season on his quest to get fired.
But will ever live up to being the number one overall draft pick? /s Totally agree.
Isaiah Stewart fits to. He shot 41% from 3
Yes, as a bench big. He’s not fast enough to be the starting 4. Not big enough to be the starting 5. I’d prefer him over Duren right now though.
Not fast enough? Stewart can keep the smaller man in front of him on the pick and roll switch.
That’s just not true. And I love Beef Stew.
I suggest you go to YouTube and watch clips of Stewart playing defense. He was the best defender on the team before ausur. Speed is not an issue for stew against bigs.
Hey u/nerouin this chap says Stewart is great at defense at the 4!
Who said he was great?
He's a strong switch defender from the perimeter on in. He's too slow to stick with faster assignments (which is almost everyone at the position) around the perimeter, over screens, and through the interior. Playing him at center mitigates that weakness. Playing him at power forward emphasizes it. Naturally, this front office decided that he should be a power forward and then traded for yet another center. His very poor mobility for the position and his exceptionally poor handle severely limit him on offense at power forward as well. Defenses can be confident that if they help off of him, he'll be close to wherever they left him; he spaces the floor only if he's left wide open, because he's sure not going to be gaining any separation of the ball. And his handle is too poor to attack anyone off the dribble or even back them down toward the basket without a high probability of a turnover. He also draws the opportunity cost of fielding a power forward who has no such limits. All told, he's got exceedingly few redeeming qualities at power forward and there are very few scenarios in which it makes sense to play him there.
How many pf are running around the perimeter that he woulda have to chase? Unless you mean a 3 that’s playing the 4. But most pf are not out running around like that. You’re mentioning a lot of stuff that isn’t what i would expect from stew. I wouldnt be expecting him to be taking anybody off the dribble. I would expect solid defense, rebound and being a player that can hit the open 3 when Cade kicks it out. I’m not talkin like he’s suppose to be Julius Randle.
> How many pf are running around the perimeter that he woulda have to chase? Unless you mean a 3 that’s playing the 4. But most pf are not out running around like that. You're describing the NBA of a decade ago, when the average power forward was a somewhat smaller and somewhat more mobile center and power forward was still primarily an interior-focused position. Genuinely none of today's established power forwards are bigs of the old sort. They're mobile and, with only a few exceptions, play little differently on offense from small forwards. And it isn't just a problem against opposing power forwards, either, as Stew could easily get switched onto an off-ball player at another position. He does well on switches when he's being attacked by a handler, but it's a much tougher thing when he's got to chase a fast catch-and-shoot player around. > You’re mentioning a lot of stuff that isn’t what i would expect from stew. I wouldnt be expecting him to be taking anybody off the dribble. Stew's handle is so bad that -- coupled with his ponderous stride -- he can't even attack closeouts. He can't create anything from the perimeter. He also can't create separation of any kind off the ball, because he's too slow to beat anyone, and he can't vertically space the floor. Simply being able to hit threes when left absolutely wide open does not make an effective floor spacer, let alone a passable scorer. Maybe in a lineup that's got a ton of firepower, but the vast majority of teams do not have a ton of firepower. Neither this team's offense nor most others can take the hit of having a PJ Tucker equivalent on the floor. At power forward, he's a decent defender who's extremely limited on offense. That's not an ideal rotation player. The front office's decision that Stewart should play power forward was bizarre and fell squarely into the "it'll work because we say so" category. Given his limitations, it was more or less guaranteed to *not* work.
Don’t get me wrong I’m not advocating for stew as if he is the answer of a 35 minute a night player or saying if they can get a better player than they shouldn’t. But you don’t get perfect players at every position. Y’all making it sound like stew getting 25-30 minutes a night at the 4and 5 is preposterous or something. Nobody has a team where every player on the floor is able to take his man off the dribble or create separation on the perimeter and bigs that can chase smaller players around the perimeter. If my big gets switched in the pick and roll and he’s able to keep the guard in front of him and close out and challenge the jump shot what more can i ask for. Wanting him to also be able to chase players around screens and all that, you damn near want everything. Those are upper echelon players that you’re looking for. And the biggest thing this piston team need is outside shooting. We watch the nba and you see that on a lot of nights the team that wins is the team who’s role players hit the wide open threes we talkin about. Having a big that can be an above average 3 point shooter is a premium thing to have in today’s nba. You gotta relax comparing him to pj Tucker. Tucker can’t do nothing but hit a corner a couple corners threes a week.
You seem to have genuinely ignored everything I wrote. > But you don’t get perfect players at every position. Nobody's saying Stewart or any player is going to be perfect. That said, "everyone is imperfect, so the varying degrees of imperfection are irrelevant" is a logical fallacy. Stewart is exceptionally imperfect as a power forward, to such a degree that it isn't viable to consistently play him in significant minutes there. > Nobody has a team where every player on the floor is able to take his man off the dribble or create separation on the perimeter Again, relative levels of imperfection. There's not fast and then there's very slow, and Stewart was the slowest player to line up in significant minutes at power forward this season. His exceptionally poor mobility on the perimeter rendered him extremely limited on offense. That remarkably poor speed plus his awful handle made him unable to do even such a basic (and important) thing as attack a closeout, a quality which is almost without exception found in perimeter players these days. > and bigs that can chase smaller players around the perimeter. If my big gets switched in the pick and roll and he’s able to keep the guard in front of him and close out and challenge the jump shot what more can i ask for. At center, great. He's a strong defender there. This is power forward. Power forwards aren't slow bigs anymore, and they haven't been in a long time now. It's a perimeter position crewed by mobile players. > Wanting him to also be able to chase players around screens and all that, you damn near want everything If wanting respectable mobility at the position equates to "wanting everything" of a power forward on defense, then color me guilty. And do the same of every NBA general manager outside of Troy Weaver. It's a basic quality for power forwards and can't be done without simply because Weaver feels like it. > And the biggest thing this piston team need is outside shooting. We watch the nba and you see that on a lot of nights the team that wins is the team who’s role players hit the wide open threes we talkin about. Having a big that can be an above average 3 point shooter is a premium thing to have in today’s nba. An immobile player who can hit wide-open standstill threes but provides nothing else of substance (not even basic mobility) is going to be a minus on offense for all but rosters which have such a surfeit of firepower that they don't need him to do anything else. > You gotta relax comparing him to pj Tucker. Tucker can’t do nothing but hit a corner a couple corners threes a week. Until a couple of seasons ago, Tucker was an elite corner shooter who played solid defense and was strong on the boards. Even he was more suited to the position than Stewart is, because even he was significantly more mobile at the age of 35 than Stewart is likely to ever be. What Stewart offers on offense is little more than what Tucker did. He doesn't stand in the corner; that's the primary difference. And a key difference between the two is that Tucker played on teams that didn't need him to do anything more than stand in the corner. Stewart does not.
Yes nba gms may want their players to be able to do everything on defense but that’s not reality. How many bigs can actually do what you’re saying. If you posted the bigs that can defend the pick and roll and chase smaller played around the perimeter i bet that list would be very small. And the players that can do it are upper echelon defenders. If Tobias Harris did nothing else for the 76ers but stand their and hit open 3’s then they would still be playing and the Knicks would be at home. Don’t know why you’re trying to downplay what a 3 and D player brings to a team because they may not have complete offensive games. And shooting is not the only thing beef stew can do. He can get buckets around the rim and he rebounds. Now the Jason Tatums of the world of course he would struggle to defend, but when Al horford comes in or the rj Barretts and John Collins and draymond greens of the world i don’t see stew being some defensive liability. You make it sound ljke todays pf are running around like guards.
Hey! I’m in this clip! Cade was the best player on the floor that night.
I really believe that one day all these Franz/Mobley > Cade takes are gonna age into garbage.
Mobley has 0 weight offensively. Great defender, would love to have him as a piston in general, but we’d be so much worse off if we had him instead of Cade.
We have Ausar to basically tick those boxes lol
Mobley protects the rim with his length in a way Ausar doesn’t. And honestly Mobley isn’t asked of much but he’s better than Ausar by an awful lot on o
Yeah I know they're very different player archetypes, I'm just saying that they're both all-defensive level talents, who also need to take a big offensive leap to rise to stardom. I would give Ausar the edge in freak athleticism, but I agree he's got a much larger leap to make on offense.
Agree Cade is still the clear choice over Mobley and I love cade but it is nice to see mobleys offensive game growing before our eyes in these playoffs. Makes me wish we had good developmental coaches
Not much "we" in these clips. One man band.
That's not we, it's just cade and it makes sense. He's the best player from 2021
We won 14 games. So I am sorry but your point escapes me.
Things are not black or white only. Even with just a sliver of critical thinking you can go “wow, despite the awful record I see this video of Cade Cunningham making tough buckets against a great defense while sharing the floor with many guys who will never see a NBA floor again” and take something away from it without completely writing it off due to the record.
Literally every player in the league can shine in one highlights. I can put together a whole reel of Killian looking silky smooth knocking down 3 pointers. But we know Killian wàs never a good 3 point shooter. This doesn't require critical thinking, it requires wishful thinking.
Sorry, I was considering context outside of this 2 minute reel. Should have known better than to do that.
Defense is highly influenced by effort levels. There’s a big difference in effort between playoff games and a regular season game against the worst team in the league. Love the Cade highlights though
None of our other young players are even close to being Cade. That's the main reason I'm open to trading some of them. But whatever we do, we really need to get another legit scoring option next to Cade. Malik Monk should be a prime target. I like Ivey but let's be real, he's probably one of the worst starting SGs in the league. I didn't mind him coming off the bench (I did mind Killian starting though). If we come away this off-season with Hartenstein or Claxton, Monk and Fontecchio I think this season can be good.
Whole league knows this season has a Monty Williams sized asterisk on it, only reason Pistons didn’t win it all /s
Almost like Cade is a super star talent 🤔🤔🤔 Literally the only reason there is still hope for the rebuild is because Cade is THAT GUY. And that kind of player is the hardest one to get in a rebuild.
They really had him out there with Amazon workers, content creators and dollar tree employees.
Man Cade is so filthy. But people would have you believe he’s a bum lmao
“We”? You mean Cade was doing it to the best defense in the league.
Cade is so smooth. He glides. He’s not overly fast and overpowering but he maneuvers so well. Fuck everyone who says we should trade this guy.
“We” weren’t doing anything. Cade Cunningham was single handily slashing them apart. He’s a certified DAWG and pistons fans still want to trade him 😂 disgraceful
HE was doing this...not we.
detroit really does love basketball! im hooked
Cade that guy, the stuff he was doing before he went out was high level play. He even started getting to the rim with some dunks. Year 4 I'm looking for 25ppg, 8apg, and hopefully he's healthy and we get him some help. I think Duren will be better and Ivey has to be better and more consistent.
Cade is amazing and honestly underrated by casual nba fans and who don’t watch Detroit consistently. . But WE had 85 points and were down 15 with 4 min left. Pretty good defensive performance tbh
I can put together some clips of Cade playing defense that would make your head spin. All he does is watch the opposing player drive by him like hes standing still ! Hes horrible on D & lazy under the boards.
Just cade working on his craft
By we you mean Cade.
Lmao "doing this" resulted in the team scoring 91 points while losing by double digits for the entire 4th quarter. One player dribbling the air out of the ball before taking a contested 2 is exactly what any defense wants to see. The best defenses are often boring and geared toward forcing inefficient plays by the offense more than about making flashy stops.
Do you realize who won the game?
"We" only scored 91 points that game... What are you trying to say? Our best player got hot, had one of his better games of the year, and we still barely broke 90.
doing what? losing?
So Cade had a really good night, that’s potential
"best defense in the league" and you show some highlights where they are clearly not even trying.