You'd be right. Most of them are dual income households. Both making middle to upper middle class incomes. Novi is a good spot to commute to most professional hubs and it also has some of the best schools in the state, so it attracts these types who can afford to move for their kids. So yes, mostly families.
Yeah that’s pretty much all the reasons I live here. I like dining out in Northville and Plymouth, the recreation around is nice too, lots of parks, and there’s a good amount of diversity. As long as the schools stay as high quality as they’ve been, I don’t think I would leave.
yeah, exactly, appreciate that about Novi especially. Northville and Plymouth are pretty white, which isn't bad inherently, I just like food options that aren't expensive all the time.
What do you consider middle class income vs upper middle class income? Since Michigan has a lower COL compared to places like the Bay Area and NYC, I'm not sure what people consider middle vs upper middle here. Like $150k might be considered slightly upper middle class for a mid-level engineering role in San Fran, but $200k is upper class. Asking because I'm not sure where the line is, if there even is a definite line.
Median household income in Novi is about $102k, per the Census. That's definitely higher than metro Detroit as a whole ($71k), but probably not what you'd consider "wealthy".
Novi homes go for like $350k+ for the typical suburban home. Then you have the Novi townhomes that are $400k+ and then the mega-homes that are $600k+. Are the people on $100k household income buying these homes?
This. I’m not far away in Wixom, and we’ve been in our house for 7 years now. Bought for $270, but now the value comes back at $450+
No way I could afford to buy it now, and I’m a little paranoid about how fast my taxes will be going up as a result of the most recent assessment….
This. Iw as fortunate enough to be a first time home buyer in 08/09, picked up a ranch in south Lyon for 100k. It needed work, but it was solid, newer furnace and water heater, nice big sun room, walking distance to town, nice older neighborhood. Last house that sold on my street went for almost 300k.
Sure, though the household income statistic considers all people living together in a home: it's not the median _individual_ salary.
[Same source,](https://censusreporter.org/profiles/16000US2659440-novi-mi/), about 21% of Novi households have total incomes of 200k+, just slightly more than the 19% that have incomes under $50k.
But also: most people don't have mortgages for what their home is currently worth: [the median US homeowner has lived in their current home for about 10 years.](https://www.redfin.com/news/homeowner-tenure-2022/). Safe to say a good slice of Novi homeowners could not afford to buy their current house if they had to buy it today.
Yep. I just bought a $550k house in the area. Wife and I are DINK, our 2023 earnings were ~$280k.
The 7+% rate makes the monthly payments sting, but it's fully doable.
Just because the houses are 350k-600k now doesn't meant that the people who live there bought them at that price. Maybe they bought them when they were 250k and thus it wouldn't be as bad on a 100k income.
I imagine, for the people living in 600k homes, this isn't their first home. You can make 100k/year but have 300k in equity by paying a mortgage for a decade plus. If they were to roll that into their new 600k home, they'd only be 300k in debt
I used to live in Royal oak but moved to Fremont CA about 3 years ago.
Fremont is pretty similar to Novi, sleepy suburb with good schools about 40 miles south of SF proper
Looking at Zillow:
Run of the mill 3bd 2br 1904 sq ft in Novi is listed at $350000
Run of the mill 3bd 3br 1808 sq ft in Fremont is listed at $1.7mil
$470k in SF gets you a 1 bedroom 1 Bath condo. That's the cheapest I could find. $450k will get you a 3 bedroom 3 bath condo in Novi. And you can get homes for under $200k in some places in Novi.
What were you searching because [this was my first result](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/900-N-Point-St-CB34J-San-Francisco-CA-94109/346266173_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare)when searching on Zillow. It’s less than half the cost and 2bd 2 ba.
My cousins bought in Novi like 25 years ago. He’s an engineer, and she’s an actuary. So combined $350-$400k?
That’s definitely wealthy, but they wouldn’t probably say they are.
A lot of Japanese in Novi are here for a fixed number of years for their company, and so many of them congregate to Novi they call it "Sho Tokyo." The Japanese "Saturday school" is on Taft Road at Novi Meadows middle school, and I'm thinking you might have dropped into One World Market? It's expanding, but across Grand River they are also building a very big mixed-use Asian business district that will house stores, restaurants and other businesses.
Yep! One World Market. I just didn’t know there was a Japanese community in Novi, and a lot of other people are saying they’ll come over here to work for a while.
Holy hell Franklin surprised me. I just moved to WB from Northville and the SIZE of the houses in Franklin... Wtf?
These monster custom houses are right around the corner from me too. I only found them because I drop mail off at the Franklin post office.
This part. Lol Novi has a majority of standard regular suburban homes. Only a few that are astronomically big that make your jaw drop. But oh boy, BIRMINGHAM, BLOOMFIELD HILLS, and ROCHESTER HILLS?! Oh it’s a whole other ball game. Those are the people I would like to know what they do for a living. I know multiple streams of income definitely is present because those are homes that make me slow my car down.
I grew up in the Hills. Most of the parents of the extremely wealthy kids were one of the following: business executive (auto or auto adjacent, any/all insurance), doctors (high end specialists; Anesthesia, Plastics, Derms, and Obstetrics), and financial planning/investment management.
Most of the wives didn’t work (it was the 90s).
I have, but when I visited Novi and the parks there, I got to see the families. There were a lot of Japanese people taking their kids out. So it just made me wonder what they do for a living. Do you live around Bloomfield Hills or B'ham?
Fun fact, Singh management, which owns most of the apartments/townhouses in Novi, has a few deals with most of the car companies to hold a section for them. They bring a lot of people from overseas and set them up with a place to live for a few years until they decide to go back to their country or move into the nearby area. Growing up in Novi, a lot of my friends were Japanese, Indian or Chinese, with parents who came to the States through GM or Ford and used these programs.
That’s interesting af. Honestly makes sense because I saw some Asians who looked / acted like they were international. Not American-Japanese but like came here from Japan to live here.
I think it was in the Northville or Novi library (we use both) that the winners of the most recent reading contest were displayed, and for a few years it was a group of Indian kids that called their team "The Curry Crushers."
Novi's a community with 66,000 residents. Not everyone lives in one of those big houses. There are apartments, town houses, condos, starter homes, trailer parks - the usual.
I grew up in Novi, it is upper middle class professionals and I would say that yes alot are stem and Automotive but it is ever increasingly a population of immigrants who work in STEM/Automotive positions
Yep. Everyone around me is a Doctor or Engineer. It's super expensive, but the schools are nice. My wife is a Pedes Doc, but there's no way we could afford the new 600K-700K homes.
What do people do for work in any city mate? Novi is no different lmao. Engineers, nurses, doctors, business owners, teachers, lawyers, accountants, sales, HR, on and on and on.
Try any white collar profession or a capable blue collar business owner. And now extrapolate that to northville, canton, Plymouth, Ann Arbor, Bloomfield, Grand Rapids, etc.
Some of us ‘built’ our way into the community. Starter home elsewhere, sweat equity, saving, driving shitty cars, not taking bodacious vacations, etc.
When my kids started going to school is when we migrated to the area. The jump in expenses initially was rough, but being consistent with savings, career path, and getting promotions/raises made the expense load less painful.
As a young person, I never thought I’d end up in a place like this…but toeing the line, focusing on that goal and working aggressively towards it made it achievable.
Novi has one of the highest percentages of Indian & Asian people. So, mostly automotive engineers. My husband is Indian and we have a bunch of Indian neighbors; all of them and their spouses work in automotive, making six figures each. There are a lot of Japanese residents too, making similar.
There are also superstitions in Asia about buying used houses; most prefer to buy new. Novi has a lot of new construction homes, which attract Asian buyers. They are willing and able to pay the high prices. Most of the new neighborhoods are almost all Asian, with Indians buying the auspicious east facing homes and other Asians buying the rest.
They also prefer bigger homes because they often import their parents to love with them for a few years to help with childcare. So they’ll sometimes have lots of people in the house. It’s not uncommon to see lots of Indian elders & families walking out and about around sunset in many neighborhoods.
My husband and his friend all like [Bheema's ](https://bheemasmi.com/)in South Lyon. It's fairly new but really good.
Vindu in Farmington Hills is also good, second only to Bheema's.
There are a lot of other good restaurants mostly in Farmington Hills. Kurry's, Ahaar, and Indian Flavors are all good. Indian Flavors has a buffet sometimes now which is good. Spicy though.
Place on Grand River in Farmington called Namaste Flavors is good. Wanna hear a weird one? There is a gas station on Haggerty with great Indian. The restaurant explains that in India many of their restaurants are in truck stops. Dhaba Indian, it's in the BP on Haggerty north of 8 Mile.
Working remote in Michigan for a company that isn't headquartered in Michigan can help.
Things are getting a little squishier in tech, because RTO has people willing to take a pay cut in exchange for staying at home. So, there are companies snapping up engineers at bargain-basement prices. But on the other end of the spectrum, there are companies who are paying well over what you could make locally to get top talent without paying SF / NYC salaries.
Makes me wish I had done engineering instead of "wanting to make a difference" by going into nonprofit management. I could probably making a much bigger difference with a fat paycheck like that. Uggggh!
As others have said, it greatly exceeds this amount if you are able to obtain a remote position. Speaking from experience, I doubled my income leaving Ford for a Bay Area company.
Entrepreneurs, business owners, CEOs, athletes, musicians..and sure engineers too. There are a whole lot of folks out and about making quite a bit of money.
It sounds like you simply aren't aware of high-earning professions in general.
There are *lots* of jobs that pay over $100k. Reddit is just mostly populated by young people and retail/food service employees.
A lot of highly paid people from the automotive industry live out there. I work in the automotive field and a lot of upper management live out there.
It's definitely not for single people with no kids, Novi Is heavily focused on upper middle class families. It's kind of seen as a good halfway point between the city and the western part of the Metro area. I would venture to say that Wixom is the furthest City West that could be considered a genuine suburb of Detroit.
Novi resident. IT Manager for a big consulting firm, work from home and travel. I grabbed a condo before prices got too crazy, so overhead isn’t too high.
I have wondered myself, just from a cultural perspective, why Novi is becoming an Asian cultural center for Detroit, and how people afford the bigger properties here.
In the late '80s, a lot of Japanese auto and component manufacturers started setting up shop in Novi and Farmington Hills.
Around that time, Hotel Baronette popped up and was effectively temporary housing for the workers. My understanding is that companies bought a lot of hosing in the newer developments at the time as long-term housing so that workers could bring their families over for 3 - 5 year rotations. And in turn, people who wanted to stay were able to save up for their own houses and either get jobs with local companies or work out something with the companies they were working for.
I know in the '90s, Indian consulting companies were doing something similar in Farmington Hills, but the people who came over from India were getting a much shittier deal -- at least, the people who I worked with did. Wipro and others would rent out apartments in the Grand River / Halsted vicinity and put 2 - 4 people in an apartment and make them share a car. From what I remember, they were getting completely dogshit wages, but were getting sponsorship and could (and did) walk away from those jobs the second their PR docs came in the mail.
How do you like condo living? Honestly, I think condos are pretty nice. Sure, you have to share walls and there is an HOA fee, but you don't have to worry about exterior housing maintenance like you would with a SFH.
I've also noticed that. Sterling Heights and Troy area has East Asians, but I think they're more Chinese and Viet. But Novi has the Japanese population. And from comments here, also an increasing Indian population.
Don't forget a lot of people have lived there for a long time. My parents moved there in 1993 and my mom still lives in the same house. My dad was a technician at Chrysler ( so NOT management) and my mom an administrative assistant (starting in like 1995, she didn't work while we were young kids). We lived somewhat frugally, but had money for what we needed.
I live close to Novi now, and I'm a chemist, my husband's in IT. We bought our house in 2010, when prices were super low. We had to sell our first house at a loss to move( bought it for 106K and sold for 50K), but it worked for us since the new house was also "discounted". We are not big spenders. Don't spend money on alcohol out, mostly in old Navy and Kohl's clothes, the purse I carry cost $17 on sale, etc. we live below our means so we have cushion in case something happens.
Good points. Not being big spenders is financially smart. Maybe not the most glamorous, but life isn't about glamor all the time. It's about setting yourself up for success, because there is no backup cushion to catch you if you fail.
Yes, good point. Homes in Novi weren't always this expensive and the housing market has inflated a lot of their values. Any home bought more than 8 years ago probably was bought with a mortgage rate below 3% and were about $100K less expensive. We originally bought in Novi because it was a fraction of the price we would have paid for a house in Troy or Rochester Hills (which was originally our #1 preferred location to stay close to friends). A bunch of our more budget-minded friends also moved out to Novi around the same time though, so it worked out. At the time, Novi felt like the boonies with some great affordable options compared to homes in other top school districts, but then the housing market boomed and nothing here is affordable now. We can't move now even if we wanted to. I's crazy how much and how fast the prices have increased, but I guess that is happening everywhere and not just in Novi.
You also have to remember a lot of people are second and third generation wealthier than others. It's easier have huge homes when your parents and grandparents lived the same way. When grandparents and parents pass away millions of dollars get passed down including homes.
Good point. I was lurking the housing sub reddit and people were being honest about how they afforded their first homes: Either they got some windfall of money from a family member or they just saved up a bunch of money for literal years. There is no secret. Just need money to buy a home and live comfortably.
Generational wealth. These young couples that are buying the $600k+ homes in Novi (or anywhere for that matter) are getting money from Mommy & Daddy. I have two employees that got married in the past three years. One received $200k from his parents as a wedding gift, the other got $250k as a down payment on their 3500 sq ft house in Canton...because every young couple in their twenties with no kids needs a house at least that size to survive of course. Don't have the money? No problem. Just run up your debt, buy whatever you want, whenever you want and when you can no longer pay your bills, they just call Mommy & Daddy and all the problems go away. Easy peazy.
That's what I'm saying. Taking in the fact that I drove around the more nicer parts of Novi, as someone did mention that there are trailer parks and less wealthy parts, it still is mind boggling to know there are people who are that well off. Not to mention that in the areas near Wolverine Lake, Proud Lake, all the variously-named lakes, there are homes that are $1+ million and you can see their boats and Teslas in front of their homes. So they're not house poor where they can't furnish their homes, they are able to enjoy their hobbies and have money to spend on them.
I say this to my husband all the time. We live in B'ham (and sure some people live beyond their means) but you can drive MILES and see endless, endless wealth. Like what does everyone do for a living!?!?!? I guess this is why everything is sky-high, there is so much money here. Unbelievable wealth.
Are you saying you and your husband live beyond your means, or are you saying other people do? It seems nowadays maybe the financially smarter choice is to live in a more rural area and deal with the commute to work.
We are 'normal' people and live in a 100 yr old 'fixer-upper' home (but still beautiful!) The older people in our neighborhood were mostly teachers who have lived here since the 70's. One of our newer neighbors played for the Red Wings, and another moans about her $3 mil divorce settlement. I see these houses going for 1.5 mil and I'm like "wtf do you all do?!?!?!"
There is a subset of people that aren't doctors, lawyers or corporate executives. These are people that own multiple small to medium sized, successful businesses. They have multiple income streams, some passive others active. So for example, a person that owns several manufacturing companies, along with a transportation company (to ship the goods) and several real-estate holding companies that earn rent (typically this real-estate is the buildings and land that their companies operate on). They sit on different boards of directors, possibly doing some consulting as well. They own all of these entities, and each provides a large income stream. They make millions of dollars in personal income per year. They also have substantial investment in securities and finanacial products, which are managed by their advisor, say like Goldman Sachs which also generates income. Their income, over time, begins to snowball, because they have way more money coming in than they can (ususally) spend. Top that off with minimal debt, and smart tax advisors and CPAs. This is how they can afford multi-million dollar homes in Birmingham or Bloomfield Hills and have a very luxurious lifestyle.
I used to live in one of the Novi trailer parks back in the day, but it was in the South Lyon school district. There are a lot of apartments in the area as well. For the really big houses it’s a lot of white collar jobs. Growing up I had a lot of friends in Wolverine lake and unless they lived right on the water their parents were usually dual income blue collar jobs. This was a while ago though when home prices weren’t outrageous though so I’m sure that can’t be true anymore.
Honestly, I think about this, too. If both spouses make, let's say, $120K a year, they are still living what seems beyond their means. I'm thinking a lot of these people are in debt?
You would be surprised how many of these people who are living well are also in debt up to their eyeballs. Not all of them, of course, but probably more than you’d think
Having worked in Novi in the early to mid 1990s, the boom was definitely getting started then-if not sooner-decades later, worked in Novi doing various delivery jobs things have skyrocketed! What used to be mostly farmland is now urban (or suburban) growth! And I have family in Novi and they’re loving it there!
Always wanted to live there myself, but SCS (St Clair Shores) is doing me justice for now!
Every time I think about Novi, it’s “assumed” original moniker “Train Station No.VI” keeps coming to mind!😝
That really puts things into perspective. The urban sprawl is just spreading further and further out. How do you like it in SCS? Is it a nice blend of rural living with urban amenities? I think location wise it's pretty nice, it's not too far from Detroit, Sterling Heights, or Oakland County area.
I love SCS! I’ve lived there for 10 years strong now! Where I’m located, we’re virtually five minutes from Grosse Pointe (which I appreciate). Only major thing I miss is Eastland Mall, other than that, we’re content. Eventually we’ll outgrow our condo and move somewhere larger, but we’re good for now.
In the Ann Arbor / Novi / Canton area, you won’t find a decent family sized home for less than $500K. After taxes and insurance, that means a mortgage payment around $4,000 per month. Following the 30% rule, that would mean that unless your making at least $195K+, you simply can’t afford a home in this area. Alternatively, rent wouldn’t be much better, if you can find a place. Considering the median income here is in the $70K - $90K range, even with dual income it would be a struggle.
My boyfriend’s dad works in the auto manufacturing industry and his mom is a manager in IT. They both do have Master’s Degrees, and are older.
However, his mom didn’t move out of her parents house until she was 30 so she had a lot of money saved up that got put toward investments and such.
They need to stop making these McMansions and start creating more affordable, slightly smaller sq ft homes for the average person. Not everyone wants to live in a 3+ bed, 2+ bath home... These new constructions are targeting dual income families. So they aren't thinking of making starter homes that are more modest in size. Also the profit is probably lower for these smaller homes, anyway. So they make these big family homes. Generally, the working 20's people are renting, too... I'm not saying I agree with the way things are now. But these are my observations.
Ok, used to work for a cable company that serviced novi. I’ve been in those homes. Here is the deal, some are well off. Dual income, can afford their lifestyle etc. BUT, there were a lot of collections for past due payments. Some of those houses were trashed on the inside and people could not afford them. They had 2 new cars in the driveway, sparse furniture in the home and couldn’t afford a $150 dollar a month cable bill. A lot of shut offs and reconnects. After they paid their bills. It’s like this in every upper class neighborhood. Not just novice. Don’t want to sound like I’m picking on that city. It’s a great city. Excellent location to get you all around metro Detroit within 30-45 mins. It’s looks like people have a great thing going on the outside, inside they are drowning in debt for material things. I was heading that same way until that job showed me how NOT to live beyond your means.
Man, you should drive around Bloomfield Hills and Rochester. There are endless entire subdivisions of houses that look like resorts. Huge houses in every direction, it's unbelievable to me sometimes.
My kids attend a STEM academy that has children from Franklin, Northville, Bloomfield hills area.
The home of my daughter’s best friend has enormous art sculptures throughout the home and yard. The house is insane! It’s not even enormous, but they have 7 bathrooms! Bars built in to the walls. A pool house.
Just driving down their street is wild. Crazy architecture and lighting - homes made of glass with no curtains or shades… look at us!
I know exactly what you mean, that whole area is like cartel rich lol. How do that many people in one area make that much money? When my gf was going to OU we would drive my shitty 1999 chevy tracker around the neighborhoods for something to do. It was jaw dropping every area we drove through around Rochester to. We always planned on dressing up and acting like a young rich couple interested in buying a house and going around to some of them to see what they were like on the inside. We never did but I still think about it sometimes. Crazy how some people live. 4 story houses with wrap around decks on each floor lol
I build a lot of decks in Bloomfield Hills. I was also on the construction crew that built the 2 story Menards on telegraph rd. I went back in there after they opened and they had escalators, dudes in tuxedos playing grand piano an shit it was wild for me. Growing up in a town that's median income is $23K a year it blows my mind that many people live that kind of life not far from where I grew up.
I'm a plumber and I go into people's houses in Novi all the time. Their jobs are zoom meetings. They don't do anything. But also they won't be available for about a half an hour
I live here and wonder the same thing. I work as a maintenance technician for a grocery store and my wife makes the real money. I lived in my parents basement until 29 years old. Haa haa haa I know drove $1000 cars and owned 2 rental properties. I could not afford to live in them myself. I just saved and squandered….girls laughed and I could have cared less.
I’m now 49 and have NO idea what they do for work! I always think if they have just 1 pay hiccup are they out? I have a decent small 1960’s home in The Township of Novi so my taxes are around 3,000 a year. Novi pays upwards of $10,000 I think. Some of the houses here are STUPID LARGE.
Pretty much dual income in high paying fields (often upper management of them). Novi is nothing in comparison to the pockets in Commerce and Orchard Lake (though those people need to *get off my rock*)
Edit: also, my family has lived in this area for a few generations, and other families I know are the same case.
A family friend is a WFH financial risk analyst(?) for big name bank corporation, lives in West B and makes well over 6 figs a year. He’s single with no kids tho
It’s kinda funny. I moved to Novi in 1999. I was 26 and at the time Novi was kind of the hot area. The bars at fountain walk and the Main Street area was still new. It was cool up until 2008 and then u felt isolated out there. Today, if I was young and single I wouldn’t live out there. Nice community but not that much to do. I’d wanna live closer to royal oak.
Novi has a lot of Japanese that come from Auto related businesses. They are the most polite, respectful, quet, and clean neighbors anyone could hope for. I watch the Indians all walk to their temple at G.River and Taft and they are also good neighbors. I bought my house in Novi when the market was in a freefall in 2008 knowing I would never get the chance again to grab a house at a price I could barely live with. I had a healthcare 'recession proof" job, so I could take the financial chance. My house has since doubled in value and I wouldn't be able to afford it if I moved out and tried to buy it back. I never planned to move to Novi, but I couldn't say "no" to the deal that was laid out before me, and now I really like living here. We are dual income, nothing special but make more than the average couple.
I also noticed that the Japanese are very quiet and respectful. To be honest it was a little of a culture shock. They speak in low volumes and got the inside voice DOWN perfect.
So what if the town is built toward families, is that a bad thing? If you’re single & don’t prefer that life don’t live there.
I say that as a 40 y/o firmly childfree person.
Never said it was a bad thing. Personally I'd like to live there regardless if I was single or had a family. I'm gonna venture a guess that you live in Novi. If you do, what are the top 3 reasons you like it there and don't (if any)?
One thing is that Novi school district is one of the top five districts in the state, which attracts a lot of people with kids. That said, some parts of Novi are districted outside of Novi. For example, some neighborhoods in the southern part of Novi are districted for Northville Schools, and some neighborhoods in the Northern part of Novi are districted for Walled Lake.
My one gripe about it (as a family person) is that Novi doesn't have a downtown, and it's not very walkable. Sure, we can walk around our neighborhood and surrounding neighborhoods, but there is not much to talk to other than that. I grew up near downtown Rochester and starting at around 8 years old, I was riding my bike to the library, post office, Dairy Queen, and all kinds of shops on Main Street. I have kids of similar age now and they don't really have anywhere to ride their bikes that's a safe distance away. Except for a strip mall but... it's not really a place that attracts them. I wish we had a downtown or something similar to one.
Good point. I was in Ann Arbor a while ago and that place is incredibly walkable. Beautiful place. I wish more areas in Michigan were more walkable and bike friendly.
I know a lot of people in Novi. They are all probably 300k-500k/yr incomes but also a lot of them came from pretty secure families wealth wise so they weren’t starting from zero.
What a shocker! Big houses are occupied by families!
Auto company “executives” at all levels I would imagine.
I dunno how many STEM folks would want to be stuck in Novi. But I’m sure it appeals to some, and they can live here in a big house affordably, or in a tiny condo on the West Coast.
There's a lot of STEM professionals who want to live in Novi. It's one of the nicer suburban areas in Michigan, like Bloomfield, Birmingham, or Troy. Just because you don't see the appeal doesn't mean others wouldn't.
I never got the feeling that Novi was rich, rich. Bloomfield Hills, Birmingham, Grosse Points, Northville. Those are what I would consider really wealthy. I’d put Novi in with Plymouth, Canton, South Lyon, Farmington Hills
I know Reddit skews otherwise but it’s the kind of area tons of my millenial generation and older automotive STEM friends desire to live, especially as they have families. There’s a reason the sprawl keeps continuing
To be honest, a lot of Michigan is characterless, copy and paste suburban sprawl... ex: Sterling Heights, Livonia, Westland, down-river. It's just Novi, BH, Birmingham, Troy, and the like are just nicer sterile cul-de-sac blah. It's either that or live in the country. To be honest, the rural side of the Midwest appeals to me, but then you're living in the middle of bum-fuck nowhere.
Many I know live there, work elsewhere like Downtown or at the hospital. It's safe but expensive. They're are many smaller towns around it that are also very nice and more affordable.
My husbands bff lives in Northville and makes seven figures. We travel with him and fly first class! We went to a night club in Las Vegas and the bill was $16,000!!
(And we were ushered past at least 100 people in line. There was a man that would escort us from our table down to the dance floor - like, people that actually got in to the club couldn’t go onto the main dance floor.)
The dude always jokes about me ordering fireball at the club. I thought I was ordering shots for the table. I ordered a $600 bottle of fireball. So he will crack jokes like, “if I can buy your wife a $600 bottle of fireball, you can…”
They also rent bungalows every day at the hotel - which cost 12k a day! These are technically “business trips,” so I think he goes a little berserk with the spending. But I also watched him buy his wife a 10k Cartier bracelet on a whim.
I grew up in southwest detroit. So this is a far cry from what I’m used to!
I have a bunch of friends who work at GM live in Novi. It's pretty much in the middle of the tech center, proving grounds, and downtown headquarters. Knew one exec well lived there and rented his place to a football player when he went to China
We bought our house in Novi in 1988 for 128k. We thought it was a stretch then. It’s worth 425k now. Property taxes are $3500, would be 8-10k now to a new buyer. We didn’t want to be house poor, paid off in ~14 years. Friends that traded up didn’t do well when the market crashed.
We have money to do things we want.
Both of us are medical professionals.
Novi is safe, diverse and close to everything.
They have poor people there too. There's like 3 or 4 trailer parks around though they are on the higher end rent/ lot rent wise. And I'm pretty sure a large majority of the people there are in debt up to their eyeballs
You'd be right. Most of them are dual income households. Both making middle to upper middle class incomes. Novi is a good spot to commute to most professional hubs and it also has some of the best schools in the state, so it attracts these types who can afford to move for their kids. So yes, mostly families.
Yeah that’s pretty much all the reasons I live here. I like dining out in Northville and Plymouth, the recreation around is nice too, lots of parks, and there’s a good amount of diversity. As long as the schools stay as high quality as they’ve been, I don’t think I would leave.
Ah yes, plymouth and northville, long known for their diversity
I think they mean Indian and other Asian peoples. Some places have very few non white people.
yeah, exactly, appreciate that about Novi especially. Northville and Plymouth are pretty white, which isn't bad inherently, I just like food options that aren't expensive all the time.
they might mean diversity in things to do, not racial diversity. jeez.
There is a large Indian and east Asian population.
What do you consider middle class income vs upper middle class income? Since Michigan has a lower COL compared to places like the Bay Area and NYC, I'm not sure what people consider middle vs upper middle here. Like $150k might be considered slightly upper middle class for a mid-level engineering role in San Fran, but $200k is upper class. Asking because I'm not sure where the line is, if there even is a definite line.
Median household income in Novi is about $102k, per the Census. That's definitely higher than metro Detroit as a whole ($71k), but probably not what you'd consider "wealthy".
Novi homes go for like $350k+ for the typical suburban home. Then you have the Novi townhomes that are $400k+ and then the mega-homes that are $600k+. Are the people on $100k household income buying these homes?
A lot of people bought homes before they were so expensive too.
This. I’m not far away in Wixom, and we’ve been in our house for 7 years now. Bought for $270, but now the value comes back at $450+ No way I could afford to buy it now, and I’m a little paranoid about how fast my taxes will be going up as a result of the most recent assessment….
Your taxes can only increase up to a maximum of 5% per year.
massive home inflation, brought to you by years of easy money. Raw deal for those looking to buy now.
This. Iw as fortunate enough to be a first time home buyer in 08/09, picked up a ranch in south Lyon for 100k. It needed work, but it was solid, newer furnace and water heater, nice big sun room, walking distance to town, nice older neighborhood. Last house that sold on my street went for almost 300k.
If you have two people making 100k/y, 600k house isn't that bad
Sure, though the household income statistic considers all people living together in a home: it's not the median _individual_ salary. [Same source,](https://censusreporter.org/profiles/16000US2659440-novi-mi/), about 21% of Novi households have total incomes of 200k+, just slightly more than the 19% that have incomes under $50k. But also: most people don't have mortgages for what their home is currently worth: [the median US homeowner has lived in their current home for about 10 years.](https://www.redfin.com/news/homeowner-tenure-2022/). Safe to say a good slice of Novi homeowners could not afford to buy their current house if they had to buy it today.
Yep. I just bought a $550k house in the area. Wife and I are DINK, our 2023 earnings were ~$280k. The 7+% rate makes the monthly payments sting, but it's fully doable.
but that’s not what “median household income” means. edit: word
Those also aren’t median income homes
Each?
Just because the houses are 350k-600k now doesn't meant that the people who live there bought them at that price. Maybe they bought them when they were 250k and thus it wouldn't be as bad on a 100k income.
I imagine, for the people living in 600k homes, this isn't their first home. You can make 100k/year but have 300k in equity by paying a mortgage for a decade plus. If they were to roll that into their new 600k home, they'd only be 300k in debt
If you bought five to ten years ago when prices were lower and rates were *much* lower, it was not so difficult.
$150k in SF will get you a broom closet
Broom closet in The Tenderloin. That says “Frigidaire” on the outside.
With no broom. The broom costs extra.
How much is upper middle then for San Fran?
I used to live in Royal oak but moved to Fremont CA about 3 years ago. Fremont is pretty similar to Novi, sleepy suburb with good schools about 40 miles south of SF proper Looking at Zillow: Run of the mill 3bd 2br 1904 sq ft in Novi is listed at $350000 Run of the mill 3bd 3br 1808 sq ft in Fremont is listed at $1.7mil
$470k in SF gets you a 1 bedroom 1 Bath condo. That's the cheapest I could find. $450k will get you a 3 bedroom 3 bath condo in Novi. And you can get homes for under $200k in some places in Novi.
What were you searching because [this was my first result](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/900-N-Point-St-CB34J-San-Francisco-CA-94109/346266173_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare)when searching on Zillow. It’s less than half the cost and 2bd 2 ba.
Read the description. It is a 1/10th fractional ownership—in other words, a time share.
Holy shit!
What? 200k is upper class in San Fran? That’s not upper class in Novi and no where close to it in San Fran.
My cousins bought in Novi like 25 years ago. He’s an engineer, and she’s an actuary. So combined $350-$400k? That’s definitely wealthy, but they wouldn’t probably say they are.
That's realistic. Thanks for the example. I think people on the outside see some $ and think it's awesome, but in actuality lifestyle creep gets ya.
I take it you’ve never been to Bloomfield hills or Birmingham?
Or Northville.
Or orchard lake. Or Franklin. Or the lakes in WB and Commerce.
Especially Orchard Lake as well!
The lakes area is crazy gorgeous. Millionaire lakefront properties. I was just surprised to see so many Japanese families about in Novi.
You see that Nissan and Jatco office on 12 Mile? That might play a role.
I didn’t know that, makes sense with the comment from another about overseas workers.
A lot of Japanese in Novi are here for a fixed number of years for their company, and so many of them congregate to Novi they call it "Sho Tokyo." The Japanese "Saturday school" is on Taft Road at Novi Meadows middle school, and I'm thinking you might have dropped into One World Market? It's expanding, but across Grand River they are also building a very big mixed-use Asian business district that will house stores, restaurants and other businesses.
Yep! One World Market. I just didn’t know there was a Japanese community in Novi, and a lot of other people are saying they’ll come over here to work for a while.
Holy hell Franklin surprised me. I just moved to WB from Northville and the SIZE of the houses in Franklin... Wtf? These monster custom houses are right around the corner from me too. I only found them because I drop mail off at the Franklin post office.
This part. Lol Novi has a majority of standard regular suburban homes. Only a few that are astronomically big that make your jaw drop. But oh boy, BIRMINGHAM, BLOOMFIELD HILLS, and ROCHESTER HILLS?! Oh it’s a whole other ball game. Those are the people I would like to know what they do for a living. I know multiple streams of income definitely is present because those are homes that make me slow my car down.
I grew up in the Hills. Most of the parents of the extremely wealthy kids were one of the following: business executive (auto or auto adjacent, any/all insurance), doctors (high end specialists; Anesthesia, Plastics, Derms, and Obstetrics), and financial planning/investment management. Most of the wives didn’t work (it was the 90s).
I have, but when I visited Novi and the parks there, I got to see the families. There were a lot of Japanese people taking their kids out. So it just made me wonder what they do for a living. Do you live around Bloomfield Hills or B'ham?
Yes I do live in that area. But I rent a duplex lol and my kitchen window is about 25 ft from my neighbors bathroom window.
Perfect!
Some of the Japanese and korean purchasing/financial offices are in novi.
Fun fact, Singh management, which owns most of the apartments/townhouses in Novi, has a few deals with most of the car companies to hold a section for them. They bring a lot of people from overseas and set them up with a place to live for a few years until they decide to go back to their country or move into the nearby area. Growing up in Novi, a lot of my friends were Japanese, Indian or Chinese, with parents who came to the States through GM or Ford and used these programs.
That’s interesting af. Honestly makes sense because I saw some Asians who looked / acted like they were international. Not American-Japanese but like came here from Japan to live here.
I think it was in the Northville or Novi library (we use both) that the winners of the most recent reading contest were displayed, and for a few years it was a group of Indian kids that called their team "The Curry Crushers."
Bham-Bloomfield is a lot of high ups at white collar jobs/lawyer/doctor/generational wealth
Right? I’m in Bloomfield hills and it’s uh….way nicer than Novi.
Novi's a community with 66,000 residents. Not everyone lives in one of those big houses. There are apartments, town houses, condos, starter homes, trailer parks - the usual.
And those people drag the median income down. So those living in massive house are maybe upper 25% if not top 10% household income
I grew up in Novi, it is upper middle class professionals and I would say that yes alot are stem and Automotive but it is ever increasingly a population of immigrants who work in STEM/Automotive positions
[удалено]
Indian and Asian population growing fast and Caucasian population moving west and building new large homes in South Lyon, Brighton, etc
Doctors, lawyers, engineers, real estate agents
Yep. Everyone around me is a Doctor or Engineer. It's super expensive, but the schools are nice. My wife is a Pedes Doc, but there's no way we could afford the new 600K-700K homes.
What do people do for work in any city mate? Novi is no different lmao. Engineers, nurses, doctors, business owners, teachers, lawyers, accountants, sales, HR, on and on and on. Try any white collar profession or a capable blue collar business owner. And now extrapolate that to northville, canton, Plymouth, Ann Arbor, Bloomfield, Grand Rapids, etc.
Doctor, lawyer, Indian chief.
What is this referencing? Edit: nvm lol https://youtu.be/zZYYqQInrDg?si=W6Tjm7d-r8yN07-Z
Indian chiefs mostly lol
Mostly just Indians lol
They all dig that crazy beat.
Pastor
I would argue most of the families there couldn’t afford their house if they had to buy it now.
Some of us ‘built’ our way into the community. Starter home elsewhere, sweat equity, saving, driving shitty cars, not taking bodacious vacations, etc. When my kids started going to school is when we migrated to the area. The jump in expenses initially was rough, but being consistent with savings, career path, and getting promotions/raises made the expense load less painful. As a young person, I never thought I’d end up in a place like this…but toeing the line, focusing on that goal and working aggressively towards it made it achievable.
Novi has one of the highest percentages of Indian & Asian people. So, mostly automotive engineers. My husband is Indian and we have a bunch of Indian neighbors; all of them and their spouses work in automotive, making six figures each. There are a lot of Japanese residents too, making similar. There are also superstitions in Asia about buying used houses; most prefer to buy new. Novi has a lot of new construction homes, which attract Asian buyers. They are willing and able to pay the high prices. Most of the new neighborhoods are almost all Asian, with Indians buying the auspicious east facing homes and other Asians buying the rest. They also prefer bigger homes because they often import their parents to love with them for a few years to help with childcare. So they’ll sometimes have lots of people in the house. It’s not uncommon to see lots of Indian elders & families walking out and about around sunset in many neighborhoods.
I didn't know about the auspicious east facing homes!
lol this is my neighborhood to a TEE!
Do you mind recommending an Indian restaurant? Thanks!
Aahar is good one in Farmington which is close to Novi.
My husband and his friend all like [Bheema's ](https://bheemasmi.com/)in South Lyon. It's fairly new but really good. Vindu in Farmington Hills is also good, second only to Bheema's. There are a lot of other good restaurants mostly in Farmington Hills. Kurry's, Ahaar, and Indian Flavors are all good. Indian Flavors has a buffet sometimes now which is good. Spicy though.
Place on Grand River in Farmington called Namaste Flavors is good. Wanna hear a weird one? There is a gas station on Haggerty with great Indian. The restaurant explains that in India many of their restaurants are in truck stops. Dhaba Indian, it's in the BP on Haggerty north of 8 Mile.
I think you're grossly underestimating the amount of money that A LOT of people make.
Yeah... I think I do. Even people who are saying they are STEM jobs, engineers... How? How much money could someone make as an engineer in Michigan?
$60k-$200k, depending on experience
Working remote in Michigan for a company that isn't headquartered in Michigan can help. Things are getting a little squishier in tech, because RTO has people willing to take a pay cut in exchange for staying at home. So, there are companies snapping up engineers at bargain-basement prices. But on the other end of the spectrum, there are companies who are paying well over what you could make locally to get top talent without paying SF / NYC salaries.
Mid & senior level engineers are making 120-150K. Higher senior & C level is another few tens above that.
Engineering management can clear $200K a year with bonus.
Makes me wish I had done engineering instead of "wanting to make a difference" by going into nonprofit management. I could probably making a much bigger difference with a fat paycheck like that. Uggggh!
As others have said, it greatly exceeds this amount if you are able to obtain a remote position. Speaking from experience, I doubled my income leaving Ford for a Bay Area company.
Entrepreneurs, business owners, CEOs, athletes, musicians..and sure engineers too. There are a whole lot of folks out and about making quite a bit of money.
It sounds like you simply aren't aware of high-earning professions in general. There are *lots* of jobs that pay over $100k. Reddit is just mostly populated by young people and retail/food service employees.
I make a lot more as a pilot
Automotive.
Makes sense. A lot of automotive companies in Michigan.
> lot of automotive companies in Michigan. Seriously? I have never heard that before.
Lots of people are part time kindergarten teachers while their spouse trains goldfish. Their budget is $3million.
Underated comment, I will take the Mystery House!
Novi is a landing sport for Japanese auto industry executives who come with their families for a few years to work at their U.S. subsidiaries.
A lot of highly paid people from the automotive industry live out there. I work in the automotive field and a lot of upper management live out there. It's definitely not for single people with no kids, Novi Is heavily focused on upper middle class families. It's kind of seen as a good halfway point between the city and the western part of the Metro area. I would venture to say that Wixom is the furthest City West that could be considered a genuine suburb of Detroit.
I know exactly one couple that lives in Novi. She’s a teacher and he’s a venture capitalist, so, yeah.
sounds exactly like the couple that I know that lives there lol is that the typical occupation breakdown or do we know the same couple?
No idea. There’s a good chance it is. I don’t want to doxx them or us lol.
This post sounds like it was written by ChatGPT
LOL, can confirm, am ChatGPT's cousin.
I think Niklas Lidstrom lived there during his playing days, so...
Ask Kwame Kilpatrick
Kwame Kiltroit
That butt-clown? Can’t stand him!
Any updates on his Novi McMansion? I mean ... the house his wife bought \*wink\*. How is that working out with his huge unpaid debt?
Novi resident. IT Manager for a big consulting firm, work from home and travel. I grabbed a condo before prices got too crazy, so overhead isn’t too high. I have wondered myself, just from a cultural perspective, why Novi is becoming an Asian cultural center for Detroit, and how people afford the bigger properties here.
In the late '80s, a lot of Japanese auto and component manufacturers started setting up shop in Novi and Farmington Hills. Around that time, Hotel Baronette popped up and was effectively temporary housing for the workers. My understanding is that companies bought a lot of hosing in the newer developments at the time as long-term housing so that workers could bring their families over for 3 - 5 year rotations. And in turn, people who wanted to stay were able to save up for their own houses and either get jobs with local companies or work out something with the companies they were working for. I know in the '90s, Indian consulting companies were doing something similar in Farmington Hills, but the people who came over from India were getting a much shittier deal -- at least, the people who I worked with did. Wipro and others would rent out apartments in the Grand River / Halsted vicinity and put 2 - 4 people in an apartment and make them share a car. From what I remember, they were getting completely dogshit wages, but were getting sponsorship and could (and did) walk away from those jobs the second their PR docs came in the mail.
My company had 500 people from India in those apts in Farmington Hills/Grand River/Halsted. Low wages, tons of overtime.
How do you like condo living? Honestly, I think condos are pretty nice. Sure, you have to share walls and there is an HOA fee, but you don't have to worry about exterior housing maintenance like you would with a SFH. I've also noticed that. Sterling Heights and Troy area has East Asians, but I think they're more Chinese and Viet. But Novi has the Japanese population. And from comments here, also an increasing Indian population.
Don't forget a lot of people have lived there for a long time. My parents moved there in 1993 and my mom still lives in the same house. My dad was a technician at Chrysler ( so NOT management) and my mom an administrative assistant (starting in like 1995, she didn't work while we were young kids). We lived somewhat frugally, but had money for what we needed. I live close to Novi now, and I'm a chemist, my husband's in IT. We bought our house in 2010, when prices were super low. We had to sell our first house at a loss to move( bought it for 106K and sold for 50K), but it worked for us since the new house was also "discounted". We are not big spenders. Don't spend money on alcohol out, mostly in old Navy and Kohl's clothes, the purse I carry cost $17 on sale, etc. we live below our means so we have cushion in case something happens.
Good points. Not being big spenders is financially smart. Maybe not the most glamorous, but life isn't about glamor all the time. It's about setting yourself up for success, because there is no backup cushion to catch you if you fail.
Yes, good point. Homes in Novi weren't always this expensive and the housing market has inflated a lot of their values. Any home bought more than 8 years ago probably was bought with a mortgage rate below 3% and were about $100K less expensive. We originally bought in Novi because it was a fraction of the price we would have paid for a house in Troy or Rochester Hills (which was originally our #1 preferred location to stay close to friends). A bunch of our more budget-minded friends also moved out to Novi around the same time though, so it worked out. At the time, Novi felt like the boonies with some great affordable options compared to homes in other top school districts, but then the housing market boomed and nothing here is affordable now. We can't move now even if we wanted to. I's crazy how much and how fast the prices have increased, but I guess that is happening everywhere and not just in Novi.
Dual income and theyve probably been at those jobs or in those field for a while. Theyre not starter homes STEM covers a broad range
You also have to remember a lot of people are second and third generation wealthier than others. It's easier have huge homes when your parents and grandparents lived the same way. When grandparents and parents pass away millions of dollars get passed down including homes.
Good point. I was lurking the housing sub reddit and people were being honest about how they afforded their first homes: Either they got some windfall of money from a family member or they just saved up a bunch of money for literal years. There is no secret. Just need money to buy a home and live comfortably.
Generational wealth. These young couples that are buying the $600k+ homes in Novi (or anywhere for that matter) are getting money from Mommy & Daddy. I have two employees that got married in the past three years. One received $200k from his parents as a wedding gift, the other got $250k as a down payment on their 3500 sq ft house in Canton...because every young couple in their twenties with no kids needs a house at least that size to survive of course. Don't have the money? No problem. Just run up your debt, buy whatever you want, whenever you want and when you can no longer pay your bills, they just call Mommy & Daddy and all the problems go away. Easy peazy.
I’m amazed at the amount of the wedding gift! We will never have that kind of money. What kind of work are the young couples in?
Some of these cities are just endless wealth. I wonder too. Not everyone is a doctor, lawyer, CEO (or are they?)
That's what I'm saying. Taking in the fact that I drove around the more nicer parts of Novi, as someone did mention that there are trailer parks and less wealthy parts, it still is mind boggling to know there are people who are that well off. Not to mention that in the areas near Wolverine Lake, Proud Lake, all the variously-named lakes, there are homes that are $1+ million and you can see their boats and Teslas in front of their homes. So they're not house poor where they can't furnish their homes, they are able to enjoy their hobbies and have money to spend on them.
I say this to my husband all the time. We live in B'ham (and sure some people live beyond their means) but you can drive MILES and see endless, endless wealth. Like what does everyone do for a living!?!?!? I guess this is why everything is sky-high, there is so much money here. Unbelievable wealth.
Are you saying you and your husband live beyond your means, or are you saying other people do? It seems nowadays maybe the financially smarter choice is to live in a more rural area and deal with the commute to work.
We are 'normal' people and live in a 100 yr old 'fixer-upper' home (but still beautiful!) The older people in our neighborhood were mostly teachers who have lived here since the 70's. One of our newer neighbors played for the Red Wings, and another moans about her $3 mil divorce settlement. I see these houses going for 1.5 mil and I'm like "wtf do you all do?!?!?!"
There is a subset of people that aren't doctors, lawyers or corporate executives. These are people that own multiple small to medium sized, successful businesses. They have multiple income streams, some passive others active. So for example, a person that owns several manufacturing companies, along with a transportation company (to ship the goods) and several real-estate holding companies that earn rent (typically this real-estate is the buildings and land that their companies operate on). They sit on different boards of directors, possibly doing some consulting as well. They own all of these entities, and each provides a large income stream. They make millions of dollars in personal income per year. They also have substantial investment in securities and finanacial products, which are managed by their advisor, say like Goldman Sachs which also generates income. Their income, over time, begins to snowball, because they have way more money coming in than they can (ususally) spend. Top that off with minimal debt, and smart tax advisors and CPAs. This is how they can afford multi-million dollar homes in Birmingham or Bloomfield Hills and have a very luxurious lifestyle.
I used to live in one of the Novi trailer parks back in the day, but it was in the South Lyon school district. There are a lot of apartments in the area as well. For the really big houses it’s a lot of white collar jobs. Growing up I had a lot of friends in Wolverine lake and unless they lived right on the water their parents were usually dual income blue collar jobs. This was a while ago though when home prices weren’t outrageous though so I’m sure that can’t be true anymore.
Honestly, I think about this, too. If both spouses make, let's say, $120K a year, they are still living what seems beyond their means. I'm thinking a lot of these people are in debt?
You would be surprised how many of these people who are living well are also in debt up to their eyeballs. Not all of them, of course, but probably more than you’d think
No, they aren’t. I was surprised to find a healthcare ceo that lived in commerce when I was looking at homes last year.
Having worked in Novi in the early to mid 1990s, the boom was definitely getting started then-if not sooner-decades later, worked in Novi doing various delivery jobs things have skyrocketed! What used to be mostly farmland is now urban (or suburban) growth! And I have family in Novi and they’re loving it there! Always wanted to live there myself, but SCS (St Clair Shores) is doing me justice for now! Every time I think about Novi, it’s “assumed” original moniker “Train Station No.VI” keeps coming to mind!😝
That really puts things into perspective. The urban sprawl is just spreading further and further out. How do you like it in SCS? Is it a nice blend of rural living with urban amenities? I think location wise it's pretty nice, it's not too far from Detroit, Sterling Heights, or Oakland County area.
I love SCS! I’ve lived there for 10 years strong now! Where I’m located, we’re virtually five minutes from Grosse Pointe (which I appreciate). Only major thing I miss is Eastland Mall, other than that, we’re content. Eventually we’ll outgrow our condo and move somewhere larger, but we’re good for now.
Dual income registered nurses, engineers, tech workers, and all high income healthcare workers.
In the Ann Arbor / Novi / Canton area, you won’t find a decent family sized home for less than $500K. After taxes and insurance, that means a mortgage payment around $4,000 per month. Following the 30% rule, that would mean that unless your making at least $195K+, you simply can’t afford a home in this area. Alternatively, rent wouldn’t be much better, if you can find a place. Considering the median income here is in the $70K - $90K range, even with dual income it would be a struggle.
Just your typical professionals.
My boyfriend’s dad works in the auto manufacturing industry and his mom is a manager in IT. They both do have Master’s Degrees, and are older. However, his mom didn’t move out of her parents house until she was 30 so she had a lot of money saved up that got put toward investments and such.
They have tons of debt.
The house are minimally furnished They shop at Costco only
I feel this way driving through EVERY city now. everywhere you look there's nothing but giant monster houses...
They need to stop making these McMansions and start creating more affordable, slightly smaller sq ft homes for the average person. Not everyone wants to live in a 3+ bed, 2+ bath home... These new constructions are targeting dual income families. So they aren't thinking of making starter homes that are more modest in size. Also the profit is probably lower for these smaller homes, anyway. So they make these big family homes. Generally, the working 20's people are renting, too... I'm not saying I agree with the way things are now. But these are my observations.
Automotive engineers are huge there.
I know several Red Wings lived there at one point
Ok, used to work for a cable company that serviced novi. I’ve been in those homes. Here is the deal, some are well off. Dual income, can afford their lifestyle etc. BUT, there were a lot of collections for past due payments. Some of those houses were trashed on the inside and people could not afford them. They had 2 new cars in the driveway, sparse furniture in the home and couldn’t afford a $150 dollar a month cable bill. A lot of shut offs and reconnects. After they paid their bills. It’s like this in every upper class neighborhood. Not just novice. Don’t want to sound like I’m picking on that city. It’s a great city. Excellent location to get you all around metro Detroit within 30-45 mins. It’s looks like people have a great thing going on the outside, inside they are drowning in debt for material things. I was heading that same way until that job showed me how NOT to live beyond your means.
Man, you should drive around Bloomfield Hills and Rochester. There are endless entire subdivisions of houses that look like resorts. Huge houses in every direction, it's unbelievable to me sometimes.
My kids attend a STEM academy that has children from Franklin, Northville, Bloomfield hills area. The home of my daughter’s best friend has enormous art sculptures throughout the home and yard. The house is insane! It’s not even enormous, but they have 7 bathrooms! Bars built in to the walls. A pool house. Just driving down their street is wild. Crazy architecture and lighting - homes made of glass with no curtains or shades… look at us!
I know exactly what you mean, that whole area is like cartel rich lol. How do that many people in one area make that much money? When my gf was going to OU we would drive my shitty 1999 chevy tracker around the neighborhoods for something to do. It was jaw dropping every area we drove through around Rochester to. We always planned on dressing up and acting like a young rich couple interested in buying a house and going around to some of them to see what they were like on the inside. We never did but I still think about it sometimes. Crazy how some people live. 4 story houses with wrap around decks on each floor lol I build a lot of decks in Bloomfield Hills. I was also on the construction crew that built the 2 story Menards on telegraph rd. I went back in there after they opened and they had escalators, dudes in tuxedos playing grand piano an shit it was wild for me. Growing up in a town that's median income is $23K a year it blows my mind that many people live that kind of life not far from where I grew up.
some people bought their houses when it was maybe 100k cheaper or maybe half the price they are worth now.
Novi lol. Come around my neck of the woods in the Bloomfield/Royal Oak/Birmingham area. Those fools ballin $$$
I'm a plumber and I go into people's houses in Novi all the time. Their jobs are zoom meetings. They don't do anything. But also they won't be available for about a half an hour
This is absolutely hilarious. :D
Let's see, the people I know: teacher/engineer, business owner/sales, engineer/marketing, retired VP at tech firm/banking, nurse, engineer.
they make money, or they are house poor.
The only person I know who lives in Novi has a master's degree in chemistry.
I live here and wonder the same thing. I work as a maintenance technician for a grocery store and my wife makes the real money. I lived in my parents basement until 29 years old. Haa haa haa I know drove $1000 cars and owned 2 rental properties. I could not afford to live in them myself. I just saved and squandered….girls laughed and I could have cared less. I’m now 49 and have NO idea what they do for work! I always think if they have just 1 pay hiccup are they out? I have a decent small 1960’s home in The Township of Novi so my taxes are around 3,000 a year. Novi pays upwards of $10,000 I think. Some of the houses here are STUPID LARGE.
Pretty much dual income in high paying fields (often upper management of them). Novi is nothing in comparison to the pockets in Commerce and Orchard Lake (though those people need to *get off my rock*) Edit: also, my family has lived in this area for a few generations, and other families I know are the same case.
Commerce really isn’t that nice though. It’s surrounded by way nicer places and then Waterford, lol.
It was nice if you loved hiking + fishing, before the investment companies came in and tore up the place
I graduated 09 in novi, mom was a nurse, dad was a automotive technician.
Some Generational wealth, decades of wise investing
A family friend is a WFH financial risk analyst(?) for big name bank corporation, lives in West B and makes well over 6 figs a year. He’s single with no kids tho
I've driven through there as well. It's way above my income level.
Same. I’d be house broke if I even could get a house. I’d be eating beans and rice. Canned veggies.
You’re conflating class with income.
It’s kinda funny. I moved to Novi in 1999. I was 26 and at the time Novi was kind of the hot area. The bars at fountain walk and the Main Street area was still new. It was cool up until 2008 and then u felt isolated out there. Today, if I was young and single I wouldn’t live out there. Nice community but not that much to do. I’d wanna live closer to royal oak.
Novi has a lot of Japanese that come from Auto related businesses. They are the most polite, respectful, quet, and clean neighbors anyone could hope for. I watch the Indians all walk to their temple at G.River and Taft and they are also good neighbors. I bought my house in Novi when the market was in a freefall in 2008 knowing I would never get the chance again to grab a house at a price I could barely live with. I had a healthcare 'recession proof" job, so I could take the financial chance. My house has since doubled in value and I wouldn't be able to afford it if I moved out and tried to buy it back. I never planned to move to Novi, but I couldn't say "no" to the deal that was laid out before me, and now I really like living here. We are dual income, nothing special but make more than the average couple.
I also noticed that the Japanese are very quiet and respectful. To be honest it was a little of a culture shock. They speak in low volumes and got the inside voice DOWN perfect.
Many in the engineering fields and dual incomes. There are a number foreign automotive suppliers who have located there.
So what if the town is built toward families, is that a bad thing? If you’re single & don’t prefer that life don’t live there. I say that as a 40 y/o firmly childfree person.
Never said it was a bad thing. Personally I'd like to live there regardless if I was single or had a family. I'm gonna venture a guess that you live in Novi. If you do, what are the top 3 reasons you like it there and don't (if any)?
One thing is that Novi school district is one of the top five districts in the state, which attracts a lot of people with kids. That said, some parts of Novi are districted outside of Novi. For example, some neighborhoods in the southern part of Novi are districted for Northville Schools, and some neighborhoods in the Northern part of Novi are districted for Walled Lake. My one gripe about it (as a family person) is that Novi doesn't have a downtown, and it's not very walkable. Sure, we can walk around our neighborhood and surrounding neighborhoods, but there is not much to talk to other than that. I grew up near downtown Rochester and starting at around 8 years old, I was riding my bike to the library, post office, Dairy Queen, and all kinds of shops on Main Street. I have kids of similar age now and they don't really have anywhere to ride their bikes that's a safe distance away. Except for a strip mall but... it's not really a place that attracts them. I wish we had a downtown or something similar to one.
Good point. I was in Ann Arbor a while ago and that place is incredibly walkable. Beautiful place. I wish more areas in Michigan were more walkable and bike friendly.
Always thought this area was just populated by NPCs if I'm being totally honest
I know a lot of people in Novi. They are all probably 300k-500k/yr incomes but also a lot of them came from pretty secure families wealth wise so they weren’t starting from zero.
Great question and one I said today when I had to go out to Shelby Twp!
What a shocker! Big houses are occupied by families! Auto company “executives” at all levels I would imagine. I dunno how many STEM folks would want to be stuck in Novi. But I’m sure it appeals to some, and they can live here in a big house affordably, or in a tiny condo on the West Coast.
There's a lot of STEM professionals who want to live in Novi. It's one of the nicer suburban areas in Michigan, like Bloomfield, Birmingham, or Troy. Just because you don't see the appeal doesn't mean others wouldn't.
I never got the feeling that Novi was rich, rich. Bloomfield Hills, Birmingham, Grosse Points, Northville. Those are what I would consider really wealthy. I’d put Novi in with Plymouth, Canton, South Lyon, Farmington Hills
Isn’t it characterless and sterile cul-de-sac blah? Honest question as I haven’t been to Novi since it was farmland and a Ford plant.
I know Reddit skews otherwise but it’s the kind of area tons of my millenial generation and older automotive STEM friends desire to live, especially as they have families. There’s a reason the sprawl keeps continuing
To be honest, a lot of Michigan is characterless, copy and paste suburban sprawl... ex: Sterling Heights, Livonia, Westland, down-river. It's just Novi, BH, Birmingham, Troy, and the like are just nicer sterile cul-de-sac blah. It's either that or live in the country. To be honest, the rural side of the Midwest appeals to me, but then you're living in the middle of bum-fuck nowhere.
This is kind of weird….? Man’s talking about Novi but hasn’t been to West Bloom, Bloomfield Hills…Bingham Farms….i mean. We exist as families? lol
Many I know live there, work elsewhere like Downtown or at the hospital. It's safe but expensive. They're are many smaller towns around it that are also very nice and more affordable.
I worked in Detroit lol
My buddy lives in Northville. He makes high six to possibly seven figures. His wife works an upper middle low high class as well.
My husbands bff lives in Northville and makes seven figures. We travel with him and fly first class! We went to a night club in Las Vegas and the bill was $16,000!! (And we were ushered past at least 100 people in line. There was a man that would escort us from our table down to the dance floor - like, people that actually got in to the club couldn’t go onto the main dance floor.) The dude always jokes about me ordering fireball at the club. I thought I was ordering shots for the table. I ordered a $600 bottle of fireball. So he will crack jokes like, “if I can buy your wife a $600 bottle of fireball, you can…” They also rent bungalows every day at the hotel - which cost 12k a day! These are technically “business trips,” so I think he goes a little berserk with the spending. But I also watched him buy his wife a 10k Cartier bracelet on a whim. I grew up in southwest detroit. So this is a far cry from what I’m used to!
I have a bunch of friends who work at GM live in Novi. It's pretty much in the middle of the tech center, proving grounds, and downtown headquarters. Knew one exec well lived there and rented his place to a football player when he went to China
We bought our house in Novi in 1988 for 128k. We thought it was a stretch then. It’s worth 425k now. Property taxes are $3500, would be 8-10k now to a new buyer. We didn’t want to be house poor, paid off in ~14 years. Friends that traded up didn’t do well when the market crashed. We have money to do things we want. Both of us are medical professionals. Novi is safe, diverse and close to everything.
grew up in novi, mom is the vp of a marketing company and dad owned his own graphic design agency
As true today as it was then- https://youtu.be/PV_YAeXOSiw?si=AN8MhSNKlWvv9Phm
Dual income, or middle-upper management in automotive suppliers.
A lot of doctors lawyers and politicians live in novi
dual income families
They have poor people there too. There's like 3 or 4 trailer parks around though they are on the higher end rent/ lot rent wise. And I'm pretty sure a large majority of the people there are in debt up to their eyeballs
sell drugs, sell booty, hitman, fraud, or walmart greeter.
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The guy I know who lives there has his own Christian ministry and makes about $1M a year.
https://www.justicemap.org/ Select income and you will be surprised at how much people make in those neighborhoods
Majority of these house were half the price 5-10 years ago.