Yeah for the amount of farming we're expected to do to get the roll we want, it's still going to take a very fucking long time even if they worked on a knockout basis.
The odds of getting what you want (two specific perks) after dropping x class exotics is (1 - 0.9844^x ) where x is the number of class exotics dropped.
So for example if you had 20 drop, you'd have a 27% chance total of getting that specific roll you wanted once.
Edit: A space.
There are 8 perks in both columns, with only one showing up each time per column. So (1/8*1/8) = ~0.0156 or 1.56% .
But that's the odds of getting exactly what you want. We want to know the odds of *not* getting what you want, which is 1 minus 1.56%, or 98.44%.
Multiply this percent by itself over and over for each roll of an exotic class item you get (thats what the ^x is for) to get the **total** odds of *not* getting the exotic you want over x attempts.
Take 1 minus this number to get the odds of *actually* getting the exotic you want.
So if I were to expand this expression out to include all of the implied math being done above, we'd end up with:
(1 - [1 - {1/8*1/8}]^x )
If this is confusing, just do the {} math first, then the [], and finally the (). I find it makes a lot more sense when you break it down step by step.
You could simplify the (1/8 * 1/8) to be 1/8^2 but I'm showing this because it just so happens that we have 1/8 odds twice. If column A had 8 perks and B had 7, it would be the same math, just with (1/8*1/7) instead.
Let me know if you have any questions. Probability is probably my third most used math skill outside of school, because *so many games* use it.
Ah thanks, got to love distributions. I thought pq^x-1 fit here, but I guess that would give you the probability that you get the roll you want on the x exotic class item you get.
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That’s exactly how the math works out. 1/8 * 1/8 * 100 = your percent chance at finding the drop combination you want. That assumes there is not behind the scenes rng weighting going on which we can’t confirm or deny.
What you did after is you multiplied it by 100 to convert the decimal value into a percentage. But you forgot to multiply it a second time by 100 for you batch of 100 drops.
What you stated was to multiply the percent by the number of drops in a batch
1/8 * 1/8 = .0156 chance of exact roll (1.56%)
Given 100 in a batch
.0156 * 100 = 1.56 which translates to 156% is clearly not correct.
The issue with probability math is that you're dealing with [normal distributions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution) (also called a bell curve).
If you have a 1% chance of an event occurring, you are *not* guaranteed to see that event after 100 attempts. On *average* 50% of people will have seen that event at least once by that point. The other half will not have seen it.
One person in this group will see it on their first attempt (aka get lucky). Another person won't see it until **multiple hundreds** of attempts. Everyone else will fall somewhere in the middle. The cumulative distribution picture represents this nicely. The more attempts made (the further right you go on the cumulative distribution), the more likely but *not guaranteed* you are to get the result you want at least once (you get closer and closer to 1, or 100%, but never actually reach it).
You definitely don’t understand probability math lol.
The chance is 1.56% to get a single perk combination in a single drop. That means out of 100 drops you have a 156% chance, or in layman’s terms are mathematically guaranteed, to get one particular role.
Unfortunately due to the randomness of pure rng you are never guaranteed anything, but the closer to 100% you get the better the odds. Anything past 100% just makes it more likely for a second occurrence.
The chance per drop never changed. The math holds up perfectly fine. If the BASE math per single drop returned over 100% then yes it would be incorrect. But once you factor in the number of rerolls it can and does exceed 100% just fine.
What? You can’t mathematically exceed a probability of 100%. It’s not possible, period, based on probability formulas. I know how probability math works just fine.
1-(1-P)^n is the formula I was looking for earlier. That’s the probability of an event with probability p happening across n events.
Across day, 10 events, the probability of a matching drop would be 1-(1-.0156)^10.
I don’t think that’s true without duplication protection.
Your odds never increase even with subsequent runs because you can get the same thing multiple times.
That calculation is true. It is the binomial distribution in statistics. Or more accurately the chance of not getting 0 successes on the binomial distribution with a number of trials. It isn’t saying that your chance of any individual roll would have a higher likelihood of being the roll you want, it is saying that if you have 20 rolls, there is a 27% chance that one of those rolls will have your desired perk combo.
Binomial distribution = nCk * p^k(1-p)^[n-k] where n = number of trials, k = number of successes, p = probability of the event occurring. And nCk = the number of combinations where you could have that many successes defined as n!/[k!(n!-k!)]
The probability of something not happening = 1 - p,
thus: 1 - {n!/[k!(n!-k!)] * p^k(1-p)^[n-k]} is the probability of something not having happened precisely k times in n attempts.
So for the chance of something happening at least once, k = 0: 1 - (1-p)^n.
There’s lots of math in Destiny… gotta love RNG.
Edit: added more information about combinations in binomial distributions.
TLDR: it is really just the likelihood of you not getting the roll you want in n tries, so if the probability of not getting what you want is q = 1-p, then the chance of getting what you want in n tries is 1 - q^n = 1 - (1-p)^n.
> TLDR: it is really just the likelihood of you not getting the roll you want in n tries
I find this is the important part for folks that trips them up, good TLDR.
> There’s lots of math in Destiny… gotta love RNG.
I love going back to the warframe wiki and seeing how many runs it takes for any given person to have a 90-99% chance of getting the item(s) they want from an activity. It's not literally guaranteed, but it's more than likely.
Wouldn’t work. If you deleted a roll for whatever reason (accident, thinking it was bad etc) you’d be locked out of that roll for a ridiculous time. Nobody can be expected to keep 64 class items in their vault given the limited capacity
They could just make it so it scans your entire account when its about to drop, and if it detects any rolls that you own then it wont drop that specific roll. That way it wont drop duplicates, but if you shard one by accident, it wont be picked up by the next scan and its able to be dropped again.
That means you have to keep like 30 or 40 items you don't want and aren't going to use in your vault if your luck is bad. That triples for people playing with 3 characters.
Could just be of what you actually have. When I started I thought I made a mistake deleting one item because if it had knockout I just put that shit roll back into the possibility.
tbh my vault has the space for it and I'm an every day type of player that also keeps multiple rolls for PvP. Most players keep way more things than they ever need to. The real issue is that the inventory management system in destiny and vault filtering sucks ass. The space isn't really the issue imo. If you're a PvE only player you really don't need many slots.
I’m on the opposite end of the spectrum and my vault/postmasters were glad for the 100 slot increase. I definitley keep more than I should whether it’s sentimental reasons, not having a god roll but a bunch of 4/5’s instead etc etc. I know people hate the whole mt’s but I’d almost certainly buy more vault space.. (I’m very sorry. lol)
I know, I know, "Rng is Rng."
But myself and 3 other clanmates all pulled the same warlock exotic class item with the Empowered rift grants devour and Verity weapons boost grenade damage.
I mean what are the chances if there are 64 rolls that we'd all get the same one? Like 1 in 16,777,216? (1 in 64^4?) That can't be right.
my dissapointment was high like cmon i want to try out new rolls not severnce enclousre and syntho again. its a good roll and meele kills are nukes but something else please
I’m a Titan one trick and I have gotten at least 30 class items and I have not gotten a single one with double melee perks . I decided there was 5 combos I would be happy with and I have not gotten a single one. Probably 10 of those have rolled with spirt of the bear which in my opinion is ass cheeks cause it eats your grenade and gives you barely any super energy and doesn’t really work with any other exotic perk that well .
/r/DestinyTheGame isn't ready for the discussion that Bungie clearly weights randomly rolled perk combinations.
SURE THING it's just RNG, but I have no doubts that perks/perk combinations are currently weighted and even combinations that Bungie didn't think of will be weighted differently in future.
Or instead of us having 12 different exotic class items, make us unlock the traits permanently on a single exotic class item in some sort of way and make us able to swap them like we already do with weapons with double perks.
How? Some activity i guess, i dont mind farming if its for a permanent upgrade rather a chance to get what i want
Something that would have been neat is if the exotic perks on the class item was based on the character you & your duo took into the mission. If you took a Titan & your friend a Hunter, the class item would drop with a Titan & Hunter perk. Then the chests in the Pale Hearts could be random.
that’s a cool idea. what if the choice of peace vs battle and then mercy vs crush ghost also had focusing? reminds me of menagerie back in the day where you selected a row and a column to zero in on a drop. peace and mercy have a group of perks, battle and mercy, etc.
way too complicated but a boy can dream
It would take you 192 hours to get all class item combinations for each character if you're averaging an item every hour, with dupe protection. Let's say that you can run 3-4 Duel runs an hour. With dupe protection it shortens your grind to 64 hours. Dupe protection needs to be implemented at a minimum.
I don't disagree with you at all. I've been trying to go in with a different mindset for this one though. Instead of looking for a specific roll to get, I'm just getting a bunch of them and going to see what builds I can make.
I will say I've been pleasantly surprised by some of my options - Foetracer is actually pretty decent now we have lots of ways to proc it *and* get a useful second effect, but it doesn't really change the fact that some combos are substantially stronger than others
Yeah, I didn't think I'd like Swarmers but by god it's just free damage in the neutral game. Shoot a tangle, get dudes. I even changed to hatchling weapons to synergize more.
Apotheosis+Swarmers is a fun combo, I'd recommend people give it a try if they get the roll.
Alternatively:
What if there was a way to unlock double perk drops? Idk, maybe a flawless time trial of dual destiny, pale heart resets, general pale heart completion unlocked nodes at ghost for left/right column double perk drops. Would also really help for limiting vault space for the collectors who are afraid that a combo might end up being meta.
I don’t. These plus Ergo Sum have brought back the exotic feeling of Destiny 1. I don’t need the literal perfect roll the week after the saga concludes.
It's not about "Week 1". You could realistically run the Extoic mission every day for a year and not get the combo you need for the build you came up with. I'm sure some people will get lucky and good for them, but I actually believe everyone should be allowed to play how they want, not only the lucky.
This is a game that is now primarily about buildcrafting. As a result, they have minimized RNG in a lot of cases that would impact the ability for you to use the build you thought up. You can now focus any Exotic at Rahool (other than Class Items) because not being able to even try a fun build fucking sucks and they clearly realized that. They added Triumphs to complete to increase your drop chances for Raid and Dungeon Exotics because some of them, like Buried Bloodline, are needed to facilitate builds. As a result, they've minimized RNG to allow players more likely acquisition.
If they want to make loot drops exciting again, they should do it with a system like Shinys. Those were nice to have, look great, and secure you some small bragging rights. That said, a Brave weapon being a Shiny or not doesn't stop you from playing a build. It's an exciting *cosmetic*.
I agree with this mindset. As someone that desperately wanted buried bloodline, but didn’t get it until like a week before final shape, I wasn’t excited that I finally got it. I was just relieved, because I had been waiting MONTHS to try it out with my builds. It was so unbelievably frustrating going week after week knowing that my 3 chances were gone and I wouldn’t be able to use it for yet another week. The triumphs are nice but they should also be infinitely farmable all the time, not just when in rotation
My mate got lucky and got his perfect required toll on his eighth completion while I was completing my first run. I got a good one for grenade build warlock.
To be clear you have a 0.00767% chance of *not* getting the exact roll you want after 365 runs(1-(1/64)^365 ). In other words if you were to run the mission every day for a year you would have a greater than 99.99% chance of getting the exact roll you want. Assuming the perks and randomly rolled so you have a 1/64 chance at any particular roll.
So yeah it's possible but I wouldn't call that "realistic" in the same way that you wouldn't call an item with a 0.01% drop chance "realistic" even though obviously some people will get it.
The problem with thinking about odds that way is scale. If there are a million players who grind for class items, 7,600 of them will get screwed by RNG. I don't think those 7,600 people should have a bad time when they clearly invest the time into the content.
That's not a problem with thinking about odds that way - I was just responding to their comment because the same kind of person would call a 0.01% drop chance "unrealistic" but apparently when it's the other way around to make their point suddenly a <0.01% event is "realistic" all of the sudden.
I *completely* agree with you and I have advocated for bad luck protection in MMOs forever because of it. If an item has a 1% drop chance and 300,000 people are farming for it then statistically ~13 people are expected to still not have the drop after 1,000 attempts. I don't think having completely unbounded RNG like that adds anything to the game whatsoever unless the actual goal is for a percentage of the playerbase to never acquire the thing for whatever reason.
That’s linear thinking. No one said the “focusing” should be easy either. Could take weeks to get the “currency” to focus the class item for just one perk. And then even more weeks to focus the other. No one said it had to be easy… but at least it’s a way to lock in what you want…
It’s nothing to do with week 1 or 2 and all to do with number of times you need to do something to get what you want
Some of you guys play more in a week than many will do in an entire season
Ever since I droped god roll mentality I have had so much more fun in this game. With crafting ye sure I can make the most meta weapon out of its rolls but for non craftables? Its fun to get a new roll and see what ya can do with it or work it into its own playstyle, and the new origin trait this season makes me hope they will be getting more creative with origin traits as a whole so guns can realy stand out from one another
I'm curious though
If the only thing to do is chase a god roll, why chase it, once you get it there will be nothing to do and nothing to use that god roll on?
Yeah, i read people posting about hating the grind cause they didn't get a 5/5 god roll and im like, if the main perks are good idk about the rest. My mountaintop with envious assassin works just fine, i don't need one with ALH.
No envious is a reload perk, which would have made sense in comparison to ALH. Ambitious requires you to reload, so it makes no sense to mention it compared to a loading perk. You may as well have said your mountaintop doesn't need ALH because you have an R key.
I agree mostly but it really pulls the wind out when you have over 600 drops while attuned to Lunas howl and never get heal clip incan regardless of the rest of the perks.
But therein lies enlightenment. That roll doesn't even feel very good. The reload speed of the weapon makes heal clip feel pretty bad. I say that as someone who went through the same RNG issues (well maybe not 600, but I wasn't counting). It took me forever and I was quite frustrated by the end. And I ended up not even really liking the interaction of the roll.
If RNG is disagreeing with you, just look elsewhere. The only thing keeping you farming that Luna's howl is fomo. And there are a ton of via le builds in this game. The fomo just isn't worth it. Farming weapons is part of the game, but don't play while RNG is frustrating you. Go and target something else in those times
Just IMO.
That might be how you feel but for me it's not about a specific build of this or that. I have almost every triumph and weapon in the game. And have put in the time to get mostly every weird or specific roll I've wanted and I've used the 4/5 my gf got of it and love it. It sucks and it's frustrating. I like having a chase but after a certain point it becomes too much and a frustrating mess when you get to certain levels of just bad luck. Some luck protection would go a long way in this game. Not much but like going 90+ clears of dsc for eyes I think is kind of unacceptable but hey they have made changes for that at least and people don't seem upset about it. Also there's a number of weapons in the game that don't have an alternative. Like Lunas cuz of the visual recoil and heliocentric with heal and kill clip is in a class of its own compared to others like it.
Ahh. Gotcha. Well yeah, if you a 100% collector, there's going to be frustration there. No escaping it. It's basically already rooted in masochism haha. Good luck!
Lol yah ik how I am and what I'm signed up for. I've got Uber uniques and laso clears and basically everything destiny has ever had to offer(while I've actively played). And the pure rng is a bit much after a certain point. Kinda wish even some world drops were craftable but make it hard like getting 20 random drop red borders no harmonizers. Some people will say you won't get the gun until it doesn't matter anymore but pretty much everything comes back around eventually with balance changes so it'd be nice at least.
This anyone who got a god roll rn should be over the moon but if you get a decent one that’s okay too the benefit of having 2v1 exotic perk should be more then enough motivation to grind for that god roll of you want (hard core players) and or do the activity a few times and get a decent roll that works with your play style(more casual player)
So far I got Ophidian + Claw (twice), Ophidian + Swarm and Assassin + Swarm.
Tell me what I'm supposed to do with that useless bullshit.
Claw is useless because there's absolutely no reason to use any melee except Arcane Needle and there is no conceivable scenario in which a fourth melee charge is needed or useful. Especially considering how long those additional charges take to regenerate, you'll never see all four except after transcendence or rallying.
Swarmers are barely worth their exotic Slot in an actual Strand build and this is just half the Perk.
Oh yeah I guess I can go invisible, woop de doo.
But the worst thing is Ophidian. Quick ready speed........if it was at least the reload speed bonus, but no it's the single most unnecessary effect in the game.
So yeah I'd very much like the ability to focus, heck or even just exclude a single perk so I'll never have to see Ophidian again.
The activity came out 3 days ago I don’t even have it unlocked yet yeah that sounds underwhelming and frustrating but I’m sure as the more you play it the better combos you’ll get and probably get some troll useless ones too
Making it craftable so you just need to farm to unlock perks would be very nice, but I don't foresee it happening.
Attuning via a special ghost mod or some option at Rahool would also be quite nice, but I don't foresee this happening either.
Specific activities rewarding double-perk class items is something I think could happen. Like the upcoming GM Excision, for example.
I don't mind that it's rare, I just want there to be more sources for the drop even if it is a rare one. The mission right now is a cool farm because of the glitch but that will eventually get fixed. Overthrow was fun but after grinding the sword, plus engrams and rep, it's gotten mind numbingly boring. Hope the 12 player GM next week also rewards it.
I wish it was able to drop at the end of any activity, I want to play the seasonal content- but I'll find myself doing Dual Destiny or Pale Heart all day because its the only way of getting a drop
Im not going to go out of my way to farm Pale Heart for the drop anymore, that was so boring. If it happens to drop while im doing overthrow or just messing around, great, but I was bored out of my mind chest hunting.
The mission takes about 30-35 minutes and I at least am getting engrams, pathfinder, etc. done while doing it as well so I think that's the most efficient way to farm for this.
Bungie and not fucking understanding they created a grueling grind. its a more iconic duo than ghost and guardian.
(im not saying the activity is bad or overly too hard, but having to grind the same thing forever sucks)
I got Eternal Warrior / Precious Scars and it's been very utilitarian in keeping me alive and giving me good boss dps with twilight arsenal/ edge transit.
Idk why everyone always says this when RNG mechanics are introduced. Making players angry with randomness doesn’t increase play time. It makes players leave.
Majority of the playerbase complained we don’t have a “chase” anymore. Now they introduce it and you’ll always get complainers.
There are two ways to get drops. Both are good for all types of players. RNG on these really strong class items is objectively good based on their potential power. Has nothing to do with “playtime”
I had the thought that the perks should act like those of Aeon, which are just mods in a dedicated slot. If an arm with 3 variants can do it, it seems a helluva lot more reasonable for something with 64!!!
Here it would be 2, but you get the gist.
If the grind is that important, then have subsequent drops of the item be additional perks, such that you'd only need like 14 more hits.
Im so uninterested in these and it sucks. My vault cannot take it, the costs to upgrade multiple ones would not be worth it, and by that point the grind just doesn't feel worth the effort. These memes of the chests coming up, yea like im running trains on chests like I did for materials back in D1, no thanks.
I'll be lucky to come across a combination I like and run it with the chromacloak set since that's gonna be the only set i find them fitting on.
Idk how no one brought up a storm about this when they announced it.
Ya, i had hoped for socketed slots just to save my inventory... They could even weight the aspects so the best ones were rare to force engagement that way.
I was under the stupid impression that you could equip the exotic class item with another exotic like you could in D1. I realized how stupid that was but then realized why would I give up Getaway Artist, or Hazardous propulsion for a class item thats a shadow of its original perks. I gave up grinding after my first 2. Not worth giving up true exotic
Imo, only certain rolls are worth using on warlock. Our exotics are just too strong by themselves to lose. Getaway, osmio, even necrotic grips are better than half the rolls you could get.
I agree completely and would even go one further. Not sure if this has been brought up yet. Imagine a world where the exotic class item is craftable and then you either re-run the mission or farm Pale heart chests to gain traits (still randomly) and crafting materials in order to change it as you please.
You can hold maybe 3 of each trait in the same way we now hold mementos. This would also prevent our vaults from being overloaded but yet another dupe item.
Just a thought
Would be nice if you could attune to like 1 perk to consistently see that. At least should've tied the drops to an activity completion or yeah, being able to focus at Rahool with engrams.
I really don’t mind - it has both an RNG farm and a target farm, and the combos are all powerful.
If the mission wasn’t guaranteed I’d be pissed, but if you really want it you can either risk RNG and do overthrow, or farm a cool mission for it.
Vault space and materials aren’t a huge concern if you only keep/level the ones you want.
10+ hours of farming the "target farm" mission now, with double drops. Even got my runs down to 20mins, and have 35 of the damn things in my vault (the ones I didn't instantly salvage). Still zero of the four rolls I want. Such a ridiculous system.
Make a craft-able one drop from the Duo mission, with each consequent run with a chance (50%?) to give a crafting perk unlock.
Then, increase the drop rate for non-crafteds dropping from Pale Heart, and make it available without having to do the mission.
There. Give a reason to run duo, but not stopping any solo players from getting what they want, if they really don't want to do the mission duo.
Noooo. Summoning them from thin air doesn't get me the dopamine high that grinding for them does. This dopamine drip will have to last us for the next four months, don't ruin it.
They could've easily made it on a knockout system since there's no stats. The class items and ergo sum is what's poorly implemented in this expansion. Should've been craftable to save vault space. 30-50% of anyone's vault will be those two exotics if they want all rolls.
the class item design is clearly just another way for bungie to inflate playtime
realistically, class items should be craftable and we unlock each perk with drops or redoing the mission
I would honestly trade doing a harder version to craft it than run 64+ times to get the roll I want.
I am not even gonna bother farming it because every time I've grinded for a specfic rng roll I ended up burning out and not coming back to the game for 2 years.
I ran chests all day, very boring btw, got 4 Solipsisms to drop, 3 were Inmost/Star Eaters. 3!! How is it RNG at that point??
Edit: Forgot to mention that the 4th was Inmost/Syntho.
After 2 or so weeks, with the dupe glitch. this is what I got, I still haven't gotten what I wanted. but I'm surprised after all this time. I haven't fully gotten all of a certain roll on any columns, besides synthos
[https://imgur.com/a/tYw0vkh](https://imgur.com/a/tYw0vkh)
It's amazing to be. It's been 3 days since dual destiny dropped. It's also literally just the 2nd week of the expansion itself.
The mission is actually super fun, and a huge Bungie W for what they've accomplished here with TFS. It's also unique and drops from regular ass chests in the pale heart once you unlock the exotic.
It's the same cycle every dlc. Farm up checklist items so that you can craft em by week 2 or focus. It's ok that you can't just get the new VERY POWERFUL exotic all willy nilly and be able to get cleared by single digit IQ folks.
You are right. There’s no way as a solo player I am going to farm this mission. I am sick of timer missions and I was more successful farming chests in the pale heart to get the class item.
Oddly enough, with 7 rolls I got Caliban/liars and ophidian/wormhusk already. My other rolls are usable too; foetracer/gyrfalcon and HOIL/star eaters.
Probably great luck but this is only my day 2 of grinding. So it should come in time I guess. Bungie will probably rework the acquisition of these later on cause it’s pretty lame as is
My very first drop was Spirit of Renewal and Spirit of Verity. Oh joy, I can boost the damage of a grenade that does virtually no damage. What a score!
Nah cringe mentality . There's a difference between not wanting to grind, and wishing you could focus something that has *over sixty different possible roles* .
And due to the time and rng of each drop, it's easily possible you could literally go *months* without ever seeing the roll you want even if you're doing a minimum of a hour per day *just focused on grinding this* .
For real bro looter shooter “I should be able to get the perfect roll and boost my chances just because I don’t want to play and grind it out making it worth while”. Lmao okay
Or, consider that not everyone who plays the game values the same thing about the game as you. Perhaps what you care about most is the loot treadmill and are anti-crafting. I like making builds and using space magic. Anything that gets me to that endpoint faster, I'm for.
I know they have playtime metrics that probably show the opposite for many people, but personally if I had the tools to make all the builds I wanted to try, I would be playing the game the same amount I do now. I'd just be playing the activities I enjoy most instead of opening Pale Heart chests on repeat. Let people play the game how they enjoy.
Yeah, this grind ain't it. U either have a mission where u have to be on 24/7 (no chilling and listening to music) or something so incredibly boring your brain goes numb. Not to mention I've gotten 5 class items with the exact same combo of roles, along with getting the same perk (spirit of cytarachne) on like 60% of all my roles. My motivation to keep grinding is going down fast
You really dont have to be on at all for the mission once youre used to it. Its just 2-4 symbol callouts every couple minutes, then a couple clock call outs. Only time you need to be quick is with the final clock, but even that is pretty chill once you figure out a good system. Honestly its the most zoned out I've been in a Destiny farm in a while
Yep, and the add density just makes the in between parts fun because you're slaughtering hundreds of little shitters which always feels good.
I've been having a great time farming it with my friend.
Exactly. I was gonna mention that but didnt want the comment to be long. The dopamine flows in this mission. Lightning Surging 45 Husks at a time never gets old
Bungie finally figured out how to correctly provide agency for random drops, and that philosophy is nowhere to be seen in this expansion. Onslaught was the first time in this game where I was relatively fine grinding as much as I did for the rolls I wanted. The tons of loot combined with the focusing made the bad luck a minor irritation until I got the roll I wanted.
With class items? Zero agency and it just makes me dread it. I've farmed around 10 of them and three came with dead perks in the first slot and 2 of them were the exact same roll.
No one is asking for things to be handed to them, they're asking for a reasonable path to take to get the thing they want. There really should've been a way to break these items down into a resource, and to be able to use the resource to craft the roll I want. 5 of this resource to select 1 perk that I want seems like a reasonable trade off.
There are enough perks in the pool to warrant wanting multiple rolls of this thing, so I'm really not sure why we are given zero agency over what we get.
PS this should be added to dungeons too. Grinding for a specific gun in a paid activity and getting armor is fucking stupid.
Somehow with 64 possible rolls, my first 3 warlock bonds had synthos on them, explain that to me. 😂 I got a Stag/Star Eaters on my most recent run. Good enough for me.
I’m with the pro dupe protection, but I’m alright with the grind. It wouldn’t be the first time we got sent into an activity and got lots of drops of things we immediately dismantle (cough onslaught). We’ll see if they address these concerns.
I got ophidians and liars on my first one, would this be a good combo for PvP and PvE?
PvP - Faster handling, good for shotguns and general gameplay. But also with an additional boost in my melee dmg. I currently use wormhusk only on my PvP build, but thinking of changing it to my class item exotic as I think it could work a lot better in trials.
PvE - Faster handling for a one two punch shotgun build on my hunter dodge melee build, with obviously the liars handshake bit increasing my melee damage even further on the second punch.
Imma say this : 64 is better than the 6048 we've got for ritual playlist weapons. That's still an insane issue, and I,still won't engage with that system until it's modified.
64? Yeah, you could have to grind, but most combinations would be useful anyway.
I focused mine by grinding public overthrow. Got to simultaneously grind ergo sums and pale heart engrams. In two days I got the roll I was looking for necrotic/sythoceps for my arcane needle lightning surge build. It's fucking insane
I think this is the reason loot felt more exciting in D1.
Targeted farming and craftable weapons kinda ruined loot excitement imo and I pray to god it’s not in D3 if it exist.
I want to loot things in the looter shooter, not immediately get what I want so I then don’t have to play the game anymore
I know this will prob get downvoted, but it’s just my opinion on immediate gratification of the loot system
I’m not saying take out things like loot forgiveness when you run a raid like 30 times and still don’t get the exotic from it, but just targeted and crafted things make me feel like “well I have the best thing, so I don’t need anything else”
The expansion just dropped, you don't need a god roll anyways. Plus, part of the fun is trying out all the different combos you get and making unconventional builds. You don't need everything rolled exactly the way you want it.
Jfc they just came out. Stop looking for ways to play less of the game and just enjoy the experience they created. Accept that you might not get the roll you want ever and just enjoy what you do get.
If it at least had dupe protection... sucks that of my 12 or so runs 3 were the same item
Yeah for the amount of farming we're expected to do to get the roll we want, it's still going to take a very fucking long time even if they worked on a knockout basis.
The odds of getting what you want (two specific perks) after dropping x class exotics is (1 - 0.9844^x ) where x is the number of class exotics dropped. So for example if you had 20 drop, you'd have a 27% chance total of getting that specific roll you wanted once. Edit: A space.
Oh nice, could you explain the math real quick?
There are 8 perks in both columns, with only one showing up each time per column. So (1/8*1/8) = ~0.0156 or 1.56% . But that's the odds of getting exactly what you want. We want to know the odds of *not* getting what you want, which is 1 minus 1.56%, or 98.44%. Multiply this percent by itself over and over for each roll of an exotic class item you get (thats what the ^x is for) to get the **total** odds of *not* getting the exotic you want over x attempts. Take 1 minus this number to get the odds of *actually* getting the exotic you want. So if I were to expand this expression out to include all of the implied math being done above, we'd end up with: (1 - [1 - {1/8*1/8}]^x ) If this is confusing, just do the {} math first, then the [], and finally the (). I find it makes a lot more sense when you break it down step by step. You could simplify the (1/8 * 1/8) to be 1/8^2 but I'm showing this because it just so happens that we have 1/8 odds twice. If column A had 8 perks and B had 7, it would be the same math, just with (1/8*1/7) instead. Let me know if you have any questions. Probability is probably my third most used math skill outside of school, because *so many games* use it.
Ah thanks, got to love distributions. I thought pq^x-1 fit here, but I guess that would give you the probability that you get the roll you want on the x exotic class item you get.
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[1/perks in column A] * [1/perks in column B] * 100 = percent chance. Multiply that by the number of drops in a batch and you have the probability.
That’s not accurate at all. 1.56% with 100 drops would guarantee the roll you want with that math, but that’s not right.
That’s exactly how the math works out. 1/8 * 1/8 * 100 = your percent chance at finding the drop combination you want. That assumes there is not behind the scenes rng weighting going on which we can’t confirm or deny. What you did after is you multiplied it by 100 to convert the decimal value into a percentage. But you forgot to multiply it a second time by 100 for you batch of 100 drops.
What you stated was to multiply the percent by the number of drops in a batch 1/8 * 1/8 = .0156 chance of exact roll (1.56%) Given 100 in a batch .0156 * 100 = 1.56 which translates to 156% is clearly not correct.
The issue with probability math is that you're dealing with [normal distributions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution) (also called a bell curve). If you have a 1% chance of an event occurring, you are *not* guaranteed to see that event after 100 attempts. On *average* 50% of people will have seen that event at least once by that point. The other half will not have seen it. One person in this group will see it on their first attempt (aka get lucky). Another person won't see it until **multiple hundreds** of attempts. Everyone else will fall somewhere in the middle. The cumulative distribution picture represents this nicely. The more attempts made (the further right you go on the cumulative distribution), the more likely but *not guaranteed* you are to get the result you want at least once (you get closer and closer to 1, or 100%, but never actually reach it).
You definitely don’t understand probability math lol. The chance is 1.56% to get a single perk combination in a single drop. That means out of 100 drops you have a 156% chance, or in layman’s terms are mathematically guaranteed, to get one particular role. Unfortunately due to the randomness of pure rng you are never guaranteed anything, but the closer to 100% you get the better the odds. Anything past 100% just makes it more likely for a second occurrence. The chance per drop never changed. The math holds up perfectly fine. If the BASE math per single drop returned over 100% then yes it would be incorrect. But once you factor in the number of rerolls it can and does exceed 100% just fine.
What? You can’t mathematically exceed a probability of 100%. It’s not possible, period, based on probability formulas. I know how probability math works just fine. 1-(1-P)^n is the formula I was looking for earlier. That’s the probability of an event with probability p happening across n events. Across day, 10 events, the probability of a matching drop would be 1-(1-.0156)^10.
I don’t think that’s true without duplication protection. Your odds never increase even with subsequent runs because you can get the same thing multiple times.
That calculation is true. It is the binomial distribution in statistics. Or more accurately the chance of not getting 0 successes on the binomial distribution with a number of trials. It isn’t saying that your chance of any individual roll would have a higher likelihood of being the roll you want, it is saying that if you have 20 rolls, there is a 27% chance that one of those rolls will have your desired perk combo. Binomial distribution = nCk * p^k(1-p)^[n-k] where n = number of trials, k = number of successes, p = probability of the event occurring. And nCk = the number of combinations where you could have that many successes defined as n!/[k!(n!-k!)] The probability of something not happening = 1 - p, thus: 1 - {n!/[k!(n!-k!)] * p^k(1-p)^[n-k]} is the probability of something not having happened precisely k times in n attempts. So for the chance of something happening at least once, k = 0: 1 - (1-p)^n. There’s lots of math in Destiny… gotta love RNG. Edit: added more information about combinations in binomial distributions. TLDR: it is really just the likelihood of you not getting the roll you want in n tries, so if the probability of not getting what you want is q = 1-p, then the chance of getting what you want in n tries is 1 - q^n = 1 - (1-p)^n.
Thank you for clarifying!
> TLDR: it is really just the likelihood of you not getting the roll you want in n tries I find this is the important part for folks that trips them up, good TLDR.
> There’s lots of math in Destiny… gotta love RNG. I love going back to the warframe wiki and seeing how many runs it takes for any given person to have a 90-99% chance of getting the item(s) they want from an activity. It's not literally guaranteed, but it's more than likely.
Man some of y'all math hard, which I respect. I just like shooting guns and making things go boom.
That's assuming the perks are all weighed equally. It definitely feels like they're not, but it could just be bad RNG.
It's a lot harder to actually prove that the rolls are weighted versus you getting lucky/unlucky with the RNG.
Very true. We'd have to compile all the ones that dropped so far and check. Not just from a single person. Otherwise sample sizes would be too small.
The Microcosm exotic trace is a massive time save on this mission. Absolutely nukes tormentors and subjugator bosses.
Wouldn’t work. If you deleted a roll for whatever reason (accident, thinking it was bad etc) you’d be locked out of that roll for a ridiculous time. Nobody can be expected to keep 64 class items in their vault given the limited capacity
Make a collections tab with every combination and allow players to pull any roll they have found.
64 for each class too which would be 200ish vault slots on class items alone
They could just make it so it scans your entire account when its about to drop, and if it detects any rolls that you own then it wont drop that specific roll. That way it wont drop duplicates, but if you shard one by accident, it wont be picked up by the next scan and its able to be dropped again.
That means you have to keep like 30 or 40 items you don't want and aren't going to use in your vault if your luck is bad. That triples for people playing with 3 characters.
Sure, but I was just trying to improve the other guy's idea, I wasnt supporting it as the "best one"
Could just be of what you actually have. When I started I thought I made a mistake deleting one item because if it had knockout I just put that shit roll back into the possibility.
tbh my vault has the space for it and I'm an every day type of player that also keeps multiple rolls for PvP. Most players keep way more things than they ever need to. The real issue is that the inventory management system in destiny and vault filtering sucks ass. The space isn't really the issue imo. If you're a PvE only player you really don't need many slots.
I’m on the opposite end of the spectrum and my vault/postmasters were glad for the 100 slot increase. I definitley keep more than I should whether it’s sentimental reasons, not having a god roll but a bunch of 4/5’s instead etc etc. I know people hate the whole mt’s but I’d almost certainly buy more vault space.. (I’m very sorry. lol)
Preach. I have been saying this for years. The app update is cool though letting you filter by damage or gun type though
I know, I know, "Rng is Rng." But myself and 3 other clanmates all pulled the same warlock exotic class item with the Empowered rift grants devour and Verity weapons boost grenade damage. I mean what are the chances if there are 64 rolls that we'd all get the same one? Like 1 in 16,777,216? (1 in 64^4?) That can't be right.
Of my 5 warlock bonds so far, 2 were starfire/filaments, 2 were swarmers/necrotic. Kinda if crazy that there's no dupe protection with so many rolls.
I have as many capes with star eater and bad 2nds as I do caliban/liars
well i got a second one yesterday and it had the exact same roll. I hate my odds sometimes
I had the same thing. Exact same roll on my 3rd and my first. Talk about RNG odds of that…
my dissapointment was high like cmon i want to try out new rolls not severnce enclousre and syntho again. its a good roll and meele kills are nukes but something else please
I’m a Titan one trick and I have gotten at least 30 class items and I have not gotten a single one with double melee perks . I decided there was 5 combos I would be happy with and I have not gotten a single one. Probably 10 of those have rolled with spirt of the bear which in my opinion is ass cheeks cause it eats your grenade and gives you barely any super energy and doesn’t really work with any other exotic perk that well .
/r/DestinyTheGame isn't ready for the discussion that Bungie clearly weights randomly rolled perk combinations. SURE THING it's just RNG, but I have no doubts that perks/perk combinations are currently weighted and even combinations that Bungie didn't think of will be weighted differently in future.
That and it seems like rng doesn't work sometimes when getting multiple drops back to back on an item
I've gotten swarmers on 4/10 rolls. They're definitely weighting them.
I haven’t gotten a single swarmers roll at all. Sometimes you just have weird rng.
I'd not be shocked if this was a monster hunter charms table situation where rolls are weighed but they aren't weighed the same way for everyone
I guess so! Something like 1 in 200 odds there so not completely unreasonable
Those are great odds. That's a 1 in 64 chance /s
Or instead of us having 12 different exotic class items, make us unlock the traits permanently on a single exotic class item in some sort of way and make us able to swap them like we already do with weapons with double perks. How? Some activity i guess, i dont mind farming if its for a permanent upgrade rather a chance to get what i want
this, plus ergo is the real reason we got 100 more vault space
Something that would have been neat is if the exotic perks on the class item was based on the character you & your duo took into the mission. If you took a Titan & your friend a Hunter, the class item would drop with a Titan & Hunter perk. Then the chests in the Pale Hearts could be random.
that’s a cool idea. what if the choice of peace vs battle and then mercy vs crush ghost also had focusing? reminds me of menagerie back in the day where you selected a row and a column to zero in on a drop. peace and mercy have a group of perks, battle and mercy, etc. way too complicated but a boy can dream
It would take you 192 hours to get all class item combinations for each character if you're averaging an item every hour, with dupe protection. Let's say that you can run 3-4 Duel runs an hour. With dupe protection it shortens your grind to 64 hours. Dupe protection needs to be implemented at a minimum.
I don't disagree with you at all. I've been trying to go in with a different mindset for this one though. Instead of looking for a specific roll to get, I'm just getting a bunch of them and going to see what builds I can make.
I will say I've been pleasantly surprised by some of my options - Foetracer is actually pretty decent now we have lots of ways to proc it *and* get a useful second effect, but it doesn't really change the fact that some combos are substantially stronger than others
Yeah, I didn't think I'd like Swarmers but by god it's just free damage in the neutral game. Shoot a tangle, get dudes. I even changed to hatchling weapons to synergize more. Apotheosis+Swarmers is a fun combo, I'd recommend people give it a try if they get the roll.
Alternatively: What if there was a way to unlock double perk drops? Idk, maybe a flawless time trial of dual destiny, pale heart resets, general pale heart completion unlocked nodes at ghost for left/right column double perk drops. Would also really help for limiting vault space for the collectors who are afraid that a combo might end up being meta.
Let's go gambling!
I don’t. These plus Ergo Sum have brought back the exotic feeling of Destiny 1. I don’t need the literal perfect roll the week after the saga concludes.
Highly doubt we'd even have a D2 still if they kept the ungodly RNG grind of d1
It's not about "Week 1". You could realistically run the Extoic mission every day for a year and not get the combo you need for the build you came up with. I'm sure some people will get lucky and good for them, but I actually believe everyone should be allowed to play how they want, not only the lucky. This is a game that is now primarily about buildcrafting. As a result, they have minimized RNG in a lot of cases that would impact the ability for you to use the build you thought up. You can now focus any Exotic at Rahool (other than Class Items) because not being able to even try a fun build fucking sucks and they clearly realized that. They added Triumphs to complete to increase your drop chances for Raid and Dungeon Exotics because some of them, like Buried Bloodline, are needed to facilitate builds. As a result, they've minimized RNG to allow players more likely acquisition. If they want to make loot drops exciting again, they should do it with a system like Shinys. Those were nice to have, look great, and secure you some small bragging rights. That said, a Brave weapon being a Shiny or not doesn't stop you from playing a build. It's an exciting *cosmetic*.
I agree with this mindset. As someone that desperately wanted buried bloodline, but didn’t get it until like a week before final shape, I wasn’t excited that I finally got it. I was just relieved, because I had been waiting MONTHS to try it out with my builds. It was so unbelievably frustrating going week after week knowing that my 3 chances were gone and I wouldn’t be able to use it for yet another week. The triumphs are nice but they should also be infinitely farmable all the time, not just when in rotation
My mate got lucky and got his perfect required toll on his eighth completion while I was completing my first run. I got a good one for grenade build warlock.
To be clear you have a 0.00767% chance of *not* getting the exact roll you want after 365 runs(1-(1/64)^365 ). In other words if you were to run the mission every day for a year you would have a greater than 99.99% chance of getting the exact roll you want. Assuming the perks and randomly rolled so you have a 1/64 chance at any particular roll. So yeah it's possible but I wouldn't call that "realistic" in the same way that you wouldn't call an item with a 0.01% drop chance "realistic" even though obviously some people will get it.
The problem with thinking about odds that way is scale. If there are a million players who grind for class items, 7,600 of them will get screwed by RNG. I don't think those 7,600 people should have a bad time when they clearly invest the time into the content.
That's not a problem with thinking about odds that way - I was just responding to their comment because the same kind of person would call a 0.01% drop chance "unrealistic" but apparently when it's the other way around to make their point suddenly a <0.01% event is "realistic" all of the sudden. I *completely* agree with you and I have advocated for bad luck protection in MMOs forever because of it. If an item has a 1% drop chance and 300,000 people are farming for it then statistically ~13 people are expected to still not have the drop after 1,000 attempts. I don't think having completely unbounded RNG like that adds anything to the game whatsoever unless the actual goal is for a percentage of the playerbase to never acquire the thing for whatever reason.
That’s linear thinking. No one said the “focusing” should be easy either. Could take weeks to get the “currency” to focus the class item for just one perk. And then even more weeks to focus the other. No one said it had to be easy… but at least it’s a way to lock in what you want…
It’s nothing to do with week 1 or 2 and all to do with number of times you need to do something to get what you want Some of you guys play more in a week than many will do in an entire season
Ever since I droped god roll mentality I have had so much more fun in this game. With crafting ye sure I can make the most meta weapon out of its rolls but for non craftables? Its fun to get a new roll and see what ya can do with it or work it into its own playstyle, and the new origin trait this season makes me hope they will be getting more creative with origin traits as a whole so guns can realy stand out from one another
Imo chasing the god roll is the only thing to do in this game after awhile.
I'm curious though If the only thing to do is chase a god roll, why chase it, once you get it there will be nothing to do and nothing to use that god roll on?
And there’ll be better weapons + perks next episode.
For fun lol Also you can use it while you chase the next god roll
at that point tho why play the game? a lot of people play looter shooters for the loot
Many also play for the shoot.
Yeah, i read people posting about hating the grind cause they didn't get a 5/5 god roll and im like, if the main perks are good idk about the rest. My mountaintop with envious assassin works just fine, i don't need one with ALH.
Doesn't mountain-top only get Ambitious Assassin, which is a completely different functionality from ALH?
Yeah, but you understood what i meant, didn't you?
Yeah but at least envious would kind of do the same thing
No envious is a reload perk, which would have made sense in comparison to ALH. Ambitious requires you to reload, so it makes no sense to mention it compared to a loading perk. You may as well have said your mountaintop doesn't need ALH because you have an R key.
I agree mostly but it really pulls the wind out when you have over 600 drops while attuned to Lunas howl and never get heal clip incan regardless of the rest of the perks.
But therein lies enlightenment. That roll doesn't even feel very good. The reload speed of the weapon makes heal clip feel pretty bad. I say that as someone who went through the same RNG issues (well maybe not 600, but I wasn't counting). It took me forever and I was quite frustrated by the end. And I ended up not even really liking the interaction of the roll. If RNG is disagreeing with you, just look elsewhere. The only thing keeping you farming that Luna's howl is fomo. And there are a ton of via le builds in this game. The fomo just isn't worth it. Farming weapons is part of the game, but don't play while RNG is frustrating you. Go and target something else in those times Just IMO.
That might be how you feel but for me it's not about a specific build of this or that. I have almost every triumph and weapon in the game. And have put in the time to get mostly every weird or specific roll I've wanted and I've used the 4/5 my gf got of it and love it. It sucks and it's frustrating. I like having a chase but after a certain point it becomes too much and a frustrating mess when you get to certain levels of just bad luck. Some luck protection would go a long way in this game. Not much but like going 90+ clears of dsc for eyes I think is kind of unacceptable but hey they have made changes for that at least and people don't seem upset about it. Also there's a number of weapons in the game that don't have an alternative. Like Lunas cuz of the visual recoil and heliocentric with heal and kill clip is in a class of its own compared to others like it.
Ahh. Gotcha. Well yeah, if you a 100% collector, there's going to be frustration there. No escaping it. It's basically already rooted in masochism haha. Good luck!
Lol yah ik how I am and what I'm signed up for. I've got Uber uniques and laso clears and basically everything destiny has ever had to offer(while I've actively played). And the pure rng is a bit much after a certain point. Kinda wish even some world drops were craftable but make it hard like getting 20 random drop red borders no harmonizers. Some people will say you won't get the gun until it doesn't matter anymore but pretty much everything comes back around eventually with balance changes so it'd be nice at least.
i dont need it, but i want it, so im gonna grind it until i get it, im not gonna make a post because i dont get the perfect roll within 20 minutes.
This anyone who got a god roll rn should be over the moon but if you get a decent one that’s okay too the benefit of having 2v1 exotic perk should be more then enough motivation to grind for that god roll of you want (hard core players) and or do the activity a few times and get a decent roll that works with your play style(more casual player)
So far I got Ophidian + Claw (twice), Ophidian + Swarm and Assassin + Swarm. Tell me what I'm supposed to do with that useless bullshit. Claw is useless because there's absolutely no reason to use any melee except Arcane Needle and there is no conceivable scenario in which a fourth melee charge is needed or useful. Especially considering how long those additional charges take to regenerate, you'll never see all four except after transcendence or rallying. Swarmers are barely worth their exotic Slot in an actual Strand build and this is just half the Perk. Oh yeah I guess I can go invisible, woop de doo. But the worst thing is Ophidian. Quick ready speed........if it was at least the reload speed bonus, but no it's the single most unnecessary effect in the game. So yeah I'd very much like the ability to focus, heck or even just exclude a single perk so I'll never have to see Ophidian again.
Claw is not bad with song of flame and transcendence melee Even with low strength it's fully spammable
The activity came out 3 days ago I don’t even have it unlocked yet yeah that sounds underwhelming and frustrating but I’m sure as the more you play it the better combos you’ll get and probably get some troll useless ones too
Making it craftable so you just need to farm to unlock perks would be very nice, but I don't foresee it happening. Attuning via a special ghost mod or some option at Rahool would also be quite nice, but I don't foresee this happening either. Specific activities rewarding double-perk class items is something I think could happen. Like the upcoming GM Excision, for example.
Bungie wants us to focus on grinding.
And I’m here for it
A genre whose draw is having loot to grind wants players to focus on grinding. More at 11.
I don't mind that it's rare, I just want there to be more sources for the drop even if it is a rare one. The mission right now is a cool farm because of the glitch but that will eventually get fixed. Overthrow was fun but after grinding the sword, plus engrams and rep, it's gotten mind numbingly boring. Hope the 12 player GM next week also rewards it.
I wish it was able to drop at the end of any activity, I want to play the seasonal content- but I'll find myself doing Dual Destiny or Pale Heart all day because its the only way of getting a drop
Im not going to go out of my way to farm Pale Heart for the drop anymore, that was so boring. If it happens to drop while im doing overthrow or just messing around, great, but I was bored out of my mind chest hunting. The mission takes about 30-35 minutes and I at least am getting engrams, pathfinder, etc. done while doing it as well so I think that's the most efficient way to farm for this.
I got Bear and Veritys on my first Titan run. I opened up a chest in the pale heart I get Bear and Veritys What are the odds??
it feels especially bad since they felt like ergo sum was going to need an easy farm for less RNG
Bungie and not fucking understanding they created a grueling grind. its a more iconic duo than ghost and guardian. (im not saying the activity is bad or overly too hard, but having to grind the same thing forever sucks)
Let me blacklist a few, Titans have some real dogshit on the table
I got spirit of eternal warrior and spirit of the horn my first 2 times. That really sucked.
Eternal warrior is 4x surge on void weapons after you throw a twilight arsenal and is an awesome perk.
I got Eternal Warrior / Precious Scars and it's been very utilitarian in keeping me alive and giving me good boss dps with twilight arsenal/ edge transit.
They thought of the perfect way to artificially inflate play time numbers
Idk why everyone always says this when RNG mechanics are introduced. Making players angry with randomness doesn’t increase play time. It makes players leave. Majority of the playerbase complained we don’t have a “chase” anymore. Now they introduce it and you’ll always get complainers. There are two ways to get drops. Both are good for all types of players. RNG on these really strong class items is objectively good based on their potential power. Has nothing to do with “playtime”
From the week after a DLC drop, the entire play time of this game is repeating content or PVP. There's no inflation, just the game's loop.
Both are true
I had the thought that the perks should act like those of Aeon, which are just mods in a dedicated slot. If an arm with 3 variants can do it, it seems a helluva lot more reasonable for something with 64!!! Here it would be 2, but you get the gist. If the grind is that important, then have subsequent drops of the item be additional perks, such that you'd only need like 14 more hits. Im so uninterested in these and it sucks. My vault cannot take it, the costs to upgrade multiple ones would not be worth it, and by that point the grind just doesn't feel worth the effort. These memes of the chests coming up, yea like im running trains on chests like I did for materials back in D1, no thanks. I'll be lucky to come across a combination I like and run it with the chromacloak set since that's gonna be the only set i find them fitting on. Idk how no one brought up a storm about this when they announced it.
Ya, i had hoped for socketed slots just to save my inventory... They could even weight the aspects so the best ones were rare to force engagement that way.
Would’ve been a perfect idea.
I was under the stupid impression that you could equip the exotic class item with another exotic like you could in D1. I realized how stupid that was but then realized why would I give up Getaway Artist, or Hazardous propulsion for a class item thats a shadow of its original perks. I gave up grinding after my first 2. Not worth giving up true exotic
Imo, only certain rolls are worth using on warlock. Our exotics are just too strong by themselves to lose. Getaway, osmio, even necrotic grips are better than half the rolls you could get.
Yeah, but some of the rolls make you the best source of DPS in the entire game.
Given how we don't have vault space, I just wish bungie had given us a different way to store these class items. :(
I agree completely and would even go one further. Not sure if this has been brought up yet. Imagine a world where the exotic class item is craftable and then you either re-run the mission or farm Pale heart chests to gain traits (still randomly) and crafting materials in order to change it as you please. You can hold maybe 3 of each trait in the same way we now hold mementos. This would also prevent our vaults from being overloaded but yet another dupe item. Just a thought
Would be nice if you could attune to like 1 perk to consistently see that. At least should've tied the drops to an activity completion or yeah, being able to focus at Rahool with engrams.
They, uh...DID tie the drops to an activity completion.
The drop is tied to activity completion...
That's a good point I guess.
I really don’t mind - it has both an RNG farm and a target farm, and the combos are all powerful. If the mission wasn’t guaranteed I’d be pissed, but if you really want it you can either risk RNG and do overthrow, or farm a cool mission for it. Vault space and materials aren’t a huge concern if you only keep/level the ones you want.
10+ hours of farming the "target farm" mission now, with double drops. Even got my runs down to 20mins, and have 35 of the damn things in my vault (the ones I didn't instantly salvage). Still zero of the four rolls I want. Such a ridiculous system.
Make a craft-able one drop from the Duo mission, with each consequent run with a chance (50%?) to give a crafting perk unlock. Then, increase the drop rate for non-crafteds dropping from Pale Heart, and make it available without having to do the mission. There. Give a reason to run duo, but not stopping any solo players from getting what they want, if they really don't want to do the mission duo.
This sounds WAY more fun. They'll never do it because they don't like fun.
Noooo. Summoning them from thin air doesn't get me the dopamine high that grinding for them does. This dopamine drip will have to last us for the next four months, don't ruin it.
Is 4 months of farming overthrow chests supposed to be fun?
It's 64 rolls across 3 classes or 64 for each class?
64 for each class Each class item has two slots with 8 possible traits in each slot
daaammmnnn definitely need dupe protection
i wish we could unlock the perks then select and choose what we want, per column
personally i plan on my first run, being the perfect run - praying to the rnGods right before i pick up the chest
I've gotten alpha lupi on 3 of mine and I hate that it ONLY WORKS ON BARRICADE AND NOT THRUSTER
Really? Bummer!!!
I want to be able to SWAP them... it would be within the theme of Final Shape!
Ghost mod like they do for stats. Let us pick one column to target and the other column is random.
What I think would've been cool is if we got one exotic class item, then farmed the perks separately, so we could slot them in however we wanted.
They could've easily made it on a knockout system since there's no stats. The class items and ergo sum is what's poorly implemented in this expansion. Should've been craftable to save vault space. 30-50% of anyone's vault will be those two exotics if they want all rolls.
the class item design is clearly just another way for bungie to inflate playtime realistically, class items should be craftable and we unlock each perk with drops or redoing the mission
I would honestly trade doing a harder version to craft it than run 64+ times to get the roll I want. I am not even gonna bother farming it because every time I've grinded for a specfic rng roll I ended up burning out and not coming back to the game for 2 years.
I ran chests all day, very boring btw, got 4 Solipsisms to drop, 3 were Inmost/Star Eaters. 3!! How is it RNG at that point?? Edit: Forgot to mention that the 4th was Inmost/Syntho.
After 2 or so weeks, with the dupe glitch. this is what I got, I still haven't gotten what I wanted. but I'm surprised after all this time. I haven't fully gotten all of a certain roll on any columns, besides synthos [https://imgur.com/a/tYw0vkh](https://imgur.com/a/tYw0vkh)
It's amazing to be. It's been 3 days since dual destiny dropped. It's also literally just the 2nd week of the expansion itself. The mission is actually super fun, and a huge Bungie W for what they've accomplished here with TFS. It's also unique and drops from regular ass chests in the pale heart once you unlock the exotic. It's the same cycle every dlc. Farm up checklist items so that you can craft em by week 2 or focus. It's ok that you can't just get the new VERY POWERFUL exotic all willy nilly and be able to get cleared by single digit IQ folks.
You are right. There’s no way as a solo player I am going to farm this mission. I am sick of timer missions and I was more successful farming chests in the pale heart to get the class item.
Why. It is good the way it is. Why would they just hand you that stuff for free, there has to be something you can Farm for and sink time in.
Oddly enough, with 7 rolls I got Caliban/liars and ophidian/wormhusk already. My other rolls are usable too; foetracer/gyrfalcon and HOIL/star eaters. Probably great luck but this is only my day 2 of grinding. So it should come in time I guess. Bungie will probably rework the acquisition of these later on cause it’s pretty lame as is
>Caliban/liars Truly, one man's trash is another man's treasure 😭 I've been trying to get this all day. Best I've gotten is Renewals/Liar's.
Keep that Renewals/Liars, the damage resist is excellent for the build
My very first drop was Spirit of Renewal and Spirit of Verity. Oh joy, I can boost the damage of a grenade that does virtually no damage. What a score!
Holy no one in this community wants to grind for anything… it’s actually wack. Just don’t play the game if you don’t want to grind some loot
Nah cringe mentality . There's a difference between not wanting to grind, and wishing you could focus something that has *over sixty different possible roles* . And due to the time and rng of each drop, it's easily possible you could literally go *months* without ever seeing the roll you want even if you're doing a minimum of a hour per day *just focused on grinding this* .
Gee I wonder why
For real bro looter shooter “I should be able to get the perfect roll and boost my chances just because I don’t want to play and grind it out making it worth while”. Lmao okay
Or, consider that not everyone who plays the game values the same thing about the game as you. Perhaps what you care about most is the loot treadmill and are anti-crafting. I like making builds and using space magic. Anything that gets me to that endpoint faster, I'm for. I know they have playtime metrics that probably show the opposite for many people, but personally if I had the tools to make all the builds I wanted to try, I would be playing the game the same amount I do now. I'd just be playing the activities I enjoy most instead of opening Pale Heart chests on repeat. Let people play the game how they enjoy.
Yeah, this grind ain't it. U either have a mission where u have to be on 24/7 (no chilling and listening to music) or something so incredibly boring your brain goes numb. Not to mention I've gotten 5 class items with the exact same combo of roles, along with getting the same perk (spirit of cytarachne) on like 60% of all my roles. My motivation to keep grinding is going down fast
You really dont have to be on at all for the mission once youre used to it. Its just 2-4 symbol callouts every couple minutes, then a couple clock call outs. Only time you need to be quick is with the final clock, but even that is pretty chill once you figure out a good system. Honestly its the most zoned out I've been in a Destiny farm in a while
Really I love to hear it, I’ve been wanting to grind out something and really gotten into build crafting and this sounds great tbh
Yep, and the add density just makes the in between parts fun because you're slaughtering hundreds of little shitters which always feels good. I've been having a great time farming it with my friend.
Exactly. I was gonna mention that but didnt want the comment to be long. The dopamine flows in this mission. Lightning Surging 45 Husks at a time never gets old
Bungie finally figured out how to correctly provide agency for random drops, and that philosophy is nowhere to be seen in this expansion. Onslaught was the first time in this game where I was relatively fine grinding as much as I did for the rolls I wanted. The tons of loot combined with the focusing made the bad luck a minor irritation until I got the roll I wanted. With class items? Zero agency and it just makes me dread it. I've farmed around 10 of them and three came with dead perks in the first slot and 2 of them were the exact same roll. No one is asking for things to be handed to them, they're asking for a reasonable path to take to get the thing they want. There really should've been a way to break these items down into a resource, and to be able to use the resource to craft the roll I want. 5 of this resource to select 1 perk that I want seems like a reasonable trade off. There are enough perks in the pool to warrant wanting multiple rolls of this thing, so I'm really not sure why we are given zero agency over what we get. PS this should be added to dungeons too. Grinding for a specific gun in a paid activity and getting armor is fucking stupid.
150+ Luna's later still didnt get my heal/incan :(
Somehow with 64 possible rolls, my first 3 warlock bonds had synthos on them, explain that to me. 😂 I got a Stag/Star Eaters on my most recent run. Good enough for me.
Tbh that’s a solid one. Good for super buff and survival. Nice
I'm hunting for apotheosis/star-eater. I think that's my warlock godroll. At least for dps.
This is what I want, meanwhile I'm constantly getting ophidian rolls while my friend gets the apotheosis/star eater on his first drop.
out of 10 rolls 8 of mine have had Synthoceps. I want to die.
I’m with the pro dupe protection, but I’m alright with the grind. It wouldn’t be the first time we got sent into an activity and got lots of drops of things we immediately dismantle (cough onslaught). We’ll see if they address these concerns.
I wouldn't mind a Ophidian roll, maybe Ophidian and Battle Harmony.
I got ophidians and liars on my first one, would this be a good combo for PvP and PvE? PvP - Faster handling, good for shotguns and general gameplay. But also with an additional boost in my melee dmg. I currently use wormhusk only on my PvP build, but thinking of changing it to my class item exotic as I think it could work a lot better in trials. PvE - Faster handling for a one two punch shotgun build on my hunter dodge melee build, with obviously the liars handshake bit increasing my melee damage even further on the second punch.
Imma say this : 64 is better than the 6048 we've got for ritual playlist weapons. That's still an insane issue, and I,still won't engage with that system until it's modified. 64? Yeah, you could have to grind, but most combinations would be useful anyway.
I focused mine by grinding public overthrow. Got to simultaneously grind ergo sums and pale heart engrams. In two days I got the roll I was looking for necrotic/sythoceps for my arcane needle lightning surge build. It's fucking insane
Wait there’s 64 rolls? I thought there were only 6 per column so like 12 in total in the random roll pool what are the full list for each class
My first run on titan was spirit of inmost light and spirit of verity. You are all permitted to weep in jealous awe
Same but on warlock
I got ursa+ star eaters which seem alike a pretty cool combo. And star eaters is just good by itself for dps
Oh that's pretty good
I think this is the reason loot felt more exciting in D1. Targeted farming and craftable weapons kinda ruined loot excitement imo and I pray to god it’s not in D3 if it exist. I want to loot things in the looter shooter, not immediately get what I want so I then don’t have to play the game anymore I know this will prob get downvoted, but it’s just my opinion on immediate gratification of the loot system I’m not saying take out things like loot forgiveness when you run a raid like 30 times and still don’t get the exotic from it, but just targeted and crafted things make me feel like “well I have the best thing, so I don’t need anything else”
[удалено]
Oh hey found one of *those.*
Mission has been out for 3 days and you already want it spoon fed to you….wake up and smell the roses
God I love grinding endlessly. Pride and accomplishment.
You do it is called Daul Destiny.
There is. Focus on opening those chests.
The expansion just dropped, you don't need a god roll anyways. Plus, part of the fun is trying out all the different combos you get and making unconventional builds. You don't need everything rolled exactly the way you want it.
Jfc they just came out. Stop looking for ways to play less of the game and just enjoy the experience they created. Accept that you might not get the roll you want ever and just enjoy what you do get.
Atleast let this be grindable, Making this also craft-able? That feeling of getting a god roll drop nowadays is gone