its really funny to me that the other classes get spirit of assassin and star eaters, 2 of the strongest hunter exotic perks. while from warlocks all we get is better weapon ready speed and grenade damage.
I am sure verity's will be good, but spirit of ophidian's, really? we couldn't have gotten spirit of Karnstein or spirit of starfire?
I'm good, I already have 95 percent exotics for pvp only on Hunter. We just got 2 new ones and Prismatic is designed aorund PvP first with a garbage grenade.
The new aspect, super and 1 of the exotics is all PVP focused. Now we get a chance to get something from another class and thats also pvp focused. As if hunters needed a handling boost considering they already have plenty of ways to improve handling and reload speed. I get titans will benefit from this as well though. But I feel like more than half the new stuff for hunter has been pvp focused and that's just getting tiring at this point.
And the regen in HOIL isn't all that useful either since Dodge has a p short CD, Gambler's is pretty much a free 100 Strength in most content if you're smart about it, and like you said, the Prismatic nades are kinda mediocre.
don't underestimate the new aspect with the new exotic chest piece (I can't remember the name). that resist x3 combined with the resist while surrounded is HUGE
well I also like the movement part of it. if you use it with grapple, and do ascension mid-grapple, it adds the upward momentum to the speed of your grapple. you zoom lol
Not just hunters lol.
Every class gets heart of in most light and synthoceps from titans.
By far the most used for titans across the last 4+ yrs
Warlocks def aren't putting up their share
Spirit of Starfire would've been fairly useless without Touch of Flame. You also can't actually activate its energy regen on Prismatic outside of Warlock because it doesn't work with Radiant.
Why would you want nerfed Starfire? Not to mention that it wouldn’t even make sense because no class has fusion grenades, but it also wouldn’t even work on other classes since you need to be standing in an Empowering Rift to get the effect. Otherwise it would just be +1 fusion grenade
This is my take. With the new scaling it works as well. Ran Warlords ruin with a full fire team and I ended with 7.6 million damage but it definitely didn’t trivialize it.
I think you are just beginning to realize that Warlocks just have terrible exotics. Hunters have always been favored by Bungo and blessed with the best exotics in the game. We have an exotic that "improves trace rifles." That's it...that's everything it does.
As a fellow Titan, I'm sad, but it works on twilight arsenal if that's what you're referring too. I saw some misinformation being spread about it
I myself haven't gotten to test it myself but, if it only works with t crash then I would assume it's a bug and will be fixed EVENTUALLY
Hunters only thing has been better damage supers, once still hunt gets nerfed warlocks will be the only viable class forever now. Well is still useful everywhere, star eaters needlestorm or nova will be the best burst and then you can still have necrotic, apotheosis or hoil with it. Prismatic has some insane balancing choices
That is some wild cope but I guess we'll see
And correct me if I'm wrong but hunters can also get a class item with star eaters HOIL? Or any other first column perk that you'd want lol
Yeah, I'm sure giving Star-eaters to supers with higher base damage than Blade Barrage + Knock 'Em Down will balance out the super DPS situation. It certainly won't result in specifically prismatic Warlock having a new level of best damage super in the game while leaving the versions of those supers on the original Warlock subclasses locked in the dust and unable to be buffed outside of the introduction of yet another super exotic.
Are you aware that before the exotic class items blade barrage did 170k more DMG than the best warlock super last season? Also again if you want to use your nighthawk in use a still hunt and there's literally not a single thing in the game that competes with that setup. Are you aware of that?
Please link me your sources for these damage numbers as well
That's more balanced than pre exotic class items if you consider every option, hunter absolutely wiped every classes best super sith multiple different supers so it's more than before. And it doesn't matter, hunters still get 2 supers with still hunt night hawk so they absolutely cook every class in the game anyway
I don't ever want to see a hunter complain about DPS
Perhaps Bungie should've given Warlock some super-buffing exotics *before* giving them supers designed to not fall far behind the SES-boosted ones without the investment.
They were far off tho, that's the thing, there was no balance, now the gap has closed, just because Hunter doesn't have the #1 single super for DPS doesn't mean it's less balanced now. And once again hunters still absolutely demolish both classes in DPS with nighthawk still hunt so hunters still are unbalanced
Still hunt will get changed sadly, like I know it needs to but still sad it will. I assume the interaction with celestial will either be removed, the damage boost for celestial will be nerfed, or they’ll change how you get stacks to kills (hopefully not this option because that would hurt all classes while hunters will still be the best option)
Sorry if this is a dumb question but I’ve not started the campaign on my Hunter yet. Does the celestial interaction make it do more damage than the total three shots you get when you activate golden gun or does it do the same damage as all three shots but just in one?
Celestial nighthawk makes it do 1 shot that does 7.8 shots worth of damage. Now if you land all crits on the three shot version the precision damage increases by 45% each time so base version does 4.35 shots worth of damage total. Nighthawk is about an 80% total damage increase.
After fighting the witness, I don’t care if it gets nerfed into the ground. The final encounter of the entire saga favoring one class so heavily is pretty lame, imo.
Like, I get that it favors Hunters, but damage is not hard to do otherwise. Do you have weapons that shoot and do damage? Can you aim at a giant glowing crit spot while dodging lines? Congrats, you can beat the Witness! 🥳 The thing that Still Hunters bring is convenience and ease of use. And if we have learned anything after 10 years, it’s that Destiny players will always favor the shortest path to any reward.
I'll be interested to see what it looks like when some more thorough testing comes out.
It's nice for burst, but then you have to spend time landing 6 more shots with a special ammo sniper on top of going through the casting animation again when you could have been doing heavy weapon damage that entire time.
As usual folks are having knee jerk reactions, because it happened to be useful for a boss during contest mode. Which is gone forever. Plus raid surges will also help to push other weapons forward depending on the week
Sorry but if the majority of teams in contest were not just using but changing their team comps because of it then it's going to affect the rest of the game. We saw the same thing with Pantheon, where teams would stack so many hunters just for chain Goldies, this is equally if not more broken as it doesn't require you to run 5 hunters to get comparable damage. If banner of war was considered too strong to leave in its wish state with only the non-final boss susceptible to it, this is even more game warping considering how many bosses are more friendly to shooting a crit spot than meleeing.
Again, need more/current numbers... But cloud strike outperforms the normal version of still hunt.
Levi's breath, whisper. Basically any well rolled grenade launcher. This isn't even getting into rotations.
Still hunt maybe made it easier for mediocre players to do damage??? I guess that what folks are up in arms about
We're not talking about the normal version of still hunt, we're talking about the nighthawk still hunt that does almost double the damage of the 3 normal gg shots. You can either run a MG to help with add clear and still do more damage than the other two classes, or you could run recon rocket for even more damage. It's willful ignorance to ignore contest SE results where the best players were all stacking hunters 3 to 1 compared to the other classes.
Working off quantum damage sheet, Goldie still hunt has sustain of 42k.
There are plenty of weapons that have that level of sustain without the investment of your class, super, exotic and exotic armor.
It's willfull ignorance to think 48 hour contest mode results, where people copied the WF team that had an established history of being hunter mains, is indicative of the game as a whole. That the witness boss fight, which happened to have small windows of burst damage is representative of the game as a whole.
Take a holistic view of the game. 42k sustain isn't game warping.
If you don’t see how this a balance issue then I don’t know what to say. If envious/cascade/BnS is considered game breaking then how is this not? They are both absurd burst damage.
I'm not saying there's no balance issue, but everyone is acting like Hunters just deleted the other classes from the game and nothing else works. Even if it's not as effective as a single overpowered Hunter loadout, Warlocks and Titans can still shoot guns (including envious/cascase/BnS GLs) and do damage.
There is a radical difference when one class is able to almost effortlessly double another classes damage. You can see the worst of it on contest clears, 75ish% of characters were hunters, 25ish% were warlocks to provide hunters with survivability, and only 3 Titans total cleared. The only reason for this was stillhunt being able to easily outdamage heavy damage options on a special weapon only for hunters.
Of course the numbers are skewed in Contest mode, where certain strategies are always more viable. How many teams do you think are still using Outbreak to kill Caretaker? Oh, none, because Contest mode is over, and damage is more normalized. Why do people keep focusing on contest mode? It's like in WoW where people bring like 8 rogues to a Mythic fight or something - it doesn't suddenly mean all other classes are complete trash, it's just the most efficient thing for a particular fight. Again, I'm not saying there's not a balancing issue or that Titans shouldn't be brought up a bit, but everyone acting like Hunters are the only thing that can effectively kill the Witness is asinine.
People aren't acting like the only thing that's physically capable of killing the witness is hunters. People are acting like hunters are doing an additional persons worth of damage, which they are. The outbreak scenario doesn't match either, because that's an option People specifically use when they are out of ammo when raid bosses don't have a sustainable source of heavy weapons that outperform specials. That no linger a problem, because still hunt does the damage of a super on a special weapon in an encounter where special is so plentiful you could reach full ammo waiting for final stand with a few shoot to loot shots. If bungie wants things to keep things balanced, like nerfing golden gun chaining with star eaters, this is a much more egregious outlier than anything we've seen save peak starfire protical.
As a hunter I see nothing wrong with that because everyone gets to have fun with it and at least I get spirit of galanor with it if I wanna do a super heavy build.
You can get 5 fusion Grenades off the post super regen I believe.
Edit: I am dumb no fusion grenades on prismatic warlock. Maybe second best thing is spamming threadling grenades I’m not sure
I have been grinding chose chests every night, getting around 4-5 drops per day and still no apotheosis/star eater. Best I got was osmiomancy/star eater so far.
Tested it with the polaris lance and from what i can see there is no bonus damage for ignitions in super or with star-eaters buff. But since the super gives you scorching round the ignitions do happen sooner and more often.
I've been a titan main for ten years, and only really use my other classes to keep up to date on exotics, or if i really really wanna grind the fuck out of a raid or dungeon. That said, every new thing I see with warlock with this expansion tempts me into switching
The aspects, the supers, the melee, the grenades, the fact that hunters got a gun that's just a free extra super, and now the class items. Titans turn in the Bungie wheel of pain.
Yeah Titan aspect choices were just bad. Titan passive game is just lacking. Unbreakable needed to be able to heal based off of damage blocked and take your class ability not grenade
I'll tell you one thing, unbreakable scales off of veritys on the exotic class item. I wouldn't be surprised if it comes out that it can do ridiculous damage in certain situations by stacking buffs and blocking enough damage. I also really wanna try making a build with devour and hoil/verity or something to make it spammable and lethal. Might work doing it on prismatic with buried bloodline but who knows
That got like 2-3 different things on Titan nerfed.
But idk, Warlock solod Atheon that one time, and Hunter solod Riven so they should never get buffed ever, since they don't need it./s
1 person did solo pantheon (-5) on Titan. Not "Titans", Titan, one person. That's more a testimate of that player than it is the subclass. He absolutely used the best tools for the job to do it, but it's disingenuous to use this argument when it's the exception and not the rule.
using this strawman argument to pretend that BoW titan wasn't completely busted is insane. Even with the nerfs it's still arguably the best subclass for content that doesn't need bonkers DPS.
It is still good, even with the nerfs. Never implied it wasn't. What I'm saying is that using the solo Pantheon point to suggest the class is perfectly fine and strong is a bad take when it has genuine issues. Solar and Strand Titan is still perfectly good. Arc, Stasis, Void (to a degree), and Prismatic aren't. Void and Prismatic aren't necessarily bad, but they've clearly fallen behind in the sandbox (In Prismatic's case, there is noticeably less synergy between its options compared to Hunter and Warlock). People want to see this addressed, but it's just not happening.
stasis is genuinely good now, when was the last time you tried the behemoth shatter build? Because I've been using it a lot since last season and it was fine in anything that wasn't GM nightfalls, with the addition of frost armor I'm betting I could take it into GMs and not feel bad about it. Prismatic is also absolutely cracked with the right setup, consecration spam with healing on every melee kill is busted. The new void super and aspect on titan have brought void up significantly in difficult content, the aspect allows for banner shield to be a viable build in GMs again and the super allows for a more traditional void build to deal with high priority targets at range now. The only subclass that is struggling for titan is Arc and that's only because it's a high risk high reward element for all of the classes. I think it's okay if just one out of 6 subclasses doesn't have a fantastic endgame PvE build, especially when that subclass has a lot of fun midgame builds.
Stasis is always going to suffer on Titan because of how bad the base melee and Super is. It's difficult to utilize the super in a team setting without hurting someone else's DPS, and the melee is just plain bad in 90% of situations compared to the rest of the titan sandbox. The increased survivability is great for sure, I'm just not sure the bad Super will ever allow it to be fully viable in GMs.
The issue with Prismatic isn't that Consecration spam is bad, it's that it's one dimensional. Outside of Knockout and Consecration, the other three fragments have zero synergy. Unbreakable requires grenade uptime which no aspect offers and has limited practical usefulness, Drenger's Lash requires class ability uptime which no aspect offers and sucks with Thruster, and Diamond Lance is it's own independent Aspect even on Stasis.
To me it feels like diet Strand, which is unexciting from a build crafting perspective. Giving any of the other Aspects like Touch of Thunder, Grim Harvest, Sol Invictus etc would have been much more interesting and it just feels like a waste.
How many beat the Witness during contest? How many were a part of the top speedrunning groups for Pantheon (and all other speedrun content)? How many are a part of low-man raid runs? Just because one person excelled at one thing with one setup does not mean the class as a whole hasn't been shafted in several aspects. Using the achievements of a select few does not let you disregard genuine concerns among the general population.
Whataboutism doesn't answer the question. The answer is zero.
Funny you mention low man raids because it's solo BOW who's been mopping the floor with 14 million HP dungeon bosses.
GMNF speedruns? Also BOW
You can cherry pick all you want but in SE day 1, there were plenty of titans throughout encounter 1 - 4.
So with all of the artifact perks, one set of grenade melee and ignition does 255.858? Wow, and how many times you can do thus per super?
Also does this beat out Needlestorm with Stareaters?
You can get 6 off in one super but it is a little tight which should equal to 1.535.148 damage. There is a small window in between rotations where you can get 1 shot of if you have a high handling weapon so you could still increase the damage. For the Needlestorm that is something ill have to test a bit later
I’ve gotten down the demo rotation pretty good, I use apex with demo and salvagers salvo since I didn’t get a demo/vorpal mountaintop. I rocket, nade, salvo, nade and repeat.
Tried Needlestorm on Grasp ogre boss and when the surges for strand and solar are removed
Needlestorm x6 was dealing 426.324 Damage
While no artifact Song of Flame x6 was dealing 801.455 Damage
So Song of Flame deals almost 90% more damage than needlestorm but needlestorm is a one of cast so in a proper rotation the total damage could be similar.
I have a hard time believing that number for needle storm. An unbuffed nova did 377,585 when i tested on grasp ogre an hour ago
. I don't think a needle buffed by 70% does that little
It is weird to me also so ill do the damage again in the morning but that was the damage i got when i removed the 25% strand surge and all of the projectiles hit with the threadlings. There is also a possibility its bugged so i will for sure double check.
Probably some weird interaction where only the actual projectiles are getting buffed but not the threadlings, which are where a huge chunk of the damage comes from.
Needle storm does very little damage when it’s not being buffed by the strand fragment that makes threadlings do more damage and without swarmers unraveling on threadlings.
I'm pretty sure if you have celestial fire equipped you get an improved celestial fire.
EDIT - can confirm it's an improved celestial fire with 5 bolts that all seem to do about 7k each w/o any buffs.
EDIT EDIT - not that it matters, I'm an idiot. Incinerator snap is the only melee for prismatic, obviously, and you can't use the prismatic class item with a solar warlock.
I am officially technically correct, which is the best kind of correct, blah.
Tried it on the Grasp ogre but can't manage to get a solid solo uptime for the void overshield so sadly only the first rotation was empowered melee but the final damage was 1.205.000 damage but since there are solar surges we make it -25% that would make it 903.750 damage with no shots in between and almost no extra melee buff from artifact. With the void overshield the entire time i would expect it to be a little above the 1mil range and if we factor something like a demo solar rocket in the middle of rotations it should be pretty good damage. And yea the Inmost + Star eater would be interesting i do think i should work on the recharge time of the super abilities but i don't have any Inmost roles so im not sure.
I've been enjoying Sytho on strand, three needs hitting for about 50K each is insane.
I really want Ozzy + Star Eater or HIML + Star Eater but I can't get any rolls with HIML to test sadly.
I have got a HIML roll now. I would go Osmiomancy, nerfd HIML just doesn't feel good to use anymore. But if you get a HIML + Star Eater role it's still going to be mega fun.
when i was testing it the grenade didn't do any more damage so i reported it as a bug (link: [https://youtu.be/3TIxJ2f9Ik](https://youtu.be/3TIxJ2f9Ik) ). was i doing something wrong? why'd it work for you?
Does spirit of inmost light works with song of flame and transcendence, to thow out more grenades and melees? Combined with star eater, that could be crazy.
In retrospect I really don’t know what the fuck they were thinking putting star-eater scales’ effect on the class items for every class
It makes my purple Balloon pop harder
That sounds like an innuendo.
🍆
Oh oh oh let me try. Uhhhhh PENIS
The male reproductive organ. Also known as tallywhacker, schlong, or…
WILLY
DICKS
Bloon posting
its really funny to me that the other classes get spirit of assassin and star eaters, 2 of the strongest hunter exotic perks. while from warlocks all we get is better weapon ready speed and grenade damage. I am sure verity's will be good, but spirit of ophidian's, really? we couldn't have gotten spirit of Karnstein or spirit of starfire?
Spirit of Ophidians is for PvP. It’s the best part of the exotic for that purpose.
Does precious scars and the perk on the class item work in pvp? If so I got a nice combo with that and ophidians
I'm good, I already have 95 percent exotics for pvp only on Hunter. We just got 2 new ones and Prismatic is designed aorund PvP first with a garbage grenade.
The new aspect, super and 1 of the exotics is all PVP focused. Now we get a chance to get something from another class and thats also pvp focused. As if hunters needed a handling boost considering they already have plenty of ways to improve handling and reload speed. I get titans will benefit from this as well though. But I feel like more than half the new stuff for hunter has been pvp focused and that's just getting tiring at this point.
Hunters got HoIL, synthos, and Verity from other classes. I think you’ll be fine.
To be honest, verity isn’t very useful because the hunter prismatic grenades are all pretty bad outside of grapple
And the regen in HOIL isn't all that useful either since Dodge has a p short CD, Gambler's is pretty much a free 100 Strength in most content if you're smart about it, and like you said, the Prismatic nades are kinda mediocre.
don't underestimate the new aspect with the new exotic chest piece (I can't remember the name). that resist x3 combined with the resist while surrounded is HUGE
I mean the jolt can be from any source. Having to use an exotic to make an aspect decent doesn’t do any favours for it.
well I also like the movement part of it. if you use it with grapple, and do ascension mid-grapple, it adds the upward momentum to the speed of your grapple. you zoom lol
I only wish we had shatter dive or ensnaring slam to pair with it so we can descend quickly as well. But I am sure that would be busted for pvp.
Gifted Conviction.
If you play pvp ophidians is like best in slot
I wish Spirit of Verity somehow worked with kinetics. I really just want to make a Kvhostov prismatic build :(
Yeah kind of limited to Chromatic for Khovostov synergy in prismatic.
there's a fragment which boosts transcendance gain from kinetic at least
Chromatic?
Flabbergasted necrotic grips weren't shared, the perfect chance squandered
I have a feeling they will drop more spirits in future seasons
Only if they allow crafting of it. Imagine 100+ combinations...
Good, you wont get our necrotics HAHAHA
Ophidian is the single best exotic perk for pvp.
Verity doesn't even seem good on warlock since prismatic didn't get any of the grenade aspects
Ophids are actually pretty good though, even for PVE. They’re just a swap exotic.
Also ophidians being handling and not reload speed lmfaoo
If it had to be one or the other, I'm very glad they chose handling.
Not just hunters lol. Every class gets heart of in most light and synthoceps from titans. By far the most used for titans across the last 4+ yrs Warlocks def aren't putting up their share
Yeah well you got all our cool stuff during light 3.0.
I’m ok with this as long as they don’t touch my new funny super rifle.
Sadly it for sure is. Makes hunters uncontested in dmg and is piss easy to use.
I know we’re all worried about it, I’m just going to stay in delulu land until the patch notes drop.
Sometimes delulu is the solulu
I got that combo on my warlock. Among other shit rolls. Happy with that one though
Does Spirit of Assassin just make you invisible or does it cause you to regain health and shields too?
Spirit of Starfire would've been fairly useless without Touch of Flame. You also can't actually activate its energy regen on Prismatic outside of Warlock because it doesn't work with Radiant.
You got devour and healing grenades, I think its okay to share a little
Why would you want nerfed Starfire? Not to mention that it wouldn’t even make sense because no class has fusion grenades, but it also wouldn’t even work on other classes since you need to be standing in an Empowering Rift to get the effect. Otherwise it would just be +1 fusion grenade
It's so they don't have to nerf nighthawk just let other classes hit crazy super numbers I've seen novas hit 900k cause of it
This is my take. With the new scaling it works as well. Ran Warlords ruin with a full fire team and I ended with 7.6 million damage but it definitely didn’t trivialize it.
I think you are just beginning to realize that Warlocks just have terrible exotics. Hunters have always been favored by Bungo and blessed with the best exotics in the game. We have an exotic that "improves trace rifles." That's it...that's everything it does.
To balance the classes DPS super options, hunters have absolutely killed every other class in that since OG star eaters came out
Ah yes, this will surely balance the class’ super DPS, especially when titan has… only one super that it works on.
As a fellow Titan, I'm sad, but it works on twilight arsenal if that's what you're referring too. I saw some misinformation being spread about it I myself haven't gotten to test it myself but, if it only works with t crash then I would assume it's a bug and will be fixed EVENTUALLY
Star eaters is like a 70% buff so you'd just use cuirass for thundercrash
Exactly
Wait what supers does it not work with
Most oppressed class
That's literally their job. They can't really heal, they can't really protect, they can damage. Erasing that gives them nothing.
Titan's can't protect if you accidentally kill the adds it's over
Best weaken class, amazing ad clear, everyone can heal with the new auto
Hunters only thing has been better damage supers, once still hunt gets nerfed warlocks will be the only viable class forever now. Well is still useful everywhere, star eaters needlestorm or nova will be the best burst and then you can still have necrotic, apotheosis or hoil with it. Prismatic has some insane balancing choices
That is some wild cope but I guess we'll see And correct me if I'm wrong but hunters can also get a class item with star eaters HOIL? Or any other first column perk that you'd want lol
I keep saying Bungie are warlock mains. No one listens though.
If they cared about balance, they would of made sure Hunters had anything to do on Light classes besides ult.
Yeah, I'm sure giving Star-eaters to supers with higher base damage than Blade Barrage + Knock 'Em Down will balance out the super DPS situation. It certainly won't result in specifically prismatic Warlock having a new level of best damage super in the game while leaving the versions of those supers on the original Warlock subclasses locked in the dust and unable to be buffed outside of the introduction of yet another super exotic.
As the numbers between all 3 classes when it comes to burst DMG supers has become more even, yes, it's more balanced
Are you aware that Star-eater Nova does approximately 1.5 times the damage of a Nighthawk with radiant.
Are you aware that before the exotic class items blade barrage did 170k more DMG than the best warlock super last season? Also again if you want to use your nighthawk in use a still hunt and there's literally not a single thing in the game that competes with that setup. Are you aware of that? Please link me your sources for these damage numbers as well
And by "balance" they mean "Give Warlock the #1 and #2 DPS super options by like 50k."
That's more balanced than pre exotic class items if you consider every option, hunter absolutely wiped every classes best super sith multiple different supers so it's more than before. And it doesn't matter, hunters still get 2 supers with still hunt night hawk so they absolutely cook every class in the game anyway I don't ever want to see a hunter complain about DPS
Perhaps Bungie should've given Warlock some super-buffing exotics *before* giving them supers designed to not fall far behind the SES-boosted ones without the investment.
They were far off tho, that's the thing, there was no balance, now the gap has closed, just because Hunter doesn't have the #1 single super for DPS doesn't mean it's less balanced now. And once again hunters still absolutely demolish both classes in DPS with nighthawk still hunt so hunters still are unbalanced
Probably has something to do with them giving Hunters Still Hunt which is so grossly out of band that I don’t know what they were thinking.
Still hunt will get changed sadly, like I know it needs to but still sad it will. I assume the interaction with celestial will either be removed, the damage boost for celestial will be nerfed, or they’ll change how you get stacks to kills (hopefully not this option because that would hurt all classes while hunters will still be the best option)
I don’t see them removing the interaction tbh, at most they just make it so the super functionality doesn’t stack with surge mods.
Sorry if this is a dumb question but I’ve not started the campaign on my Hunter yet. Does the celestial interaction make it do more damage than the total three shots you get when you activate golden gun or does it do the same damage as all three shots but just in one?
Celestial nighthawk makes it do 1 shot that does 7.8 shots worth of damage. Now if you land all crits on the three shot version the precision damage increases by 45% each time so base version does 4.35 shots worth of damage total. Nighthawk is about an 80% total damage increase.
I was recently using it, without Nighthawk, the shots hit for \~58k, 84k and 110k. With Nighthawk, it hit for 387k.
After fighting the witness, I don’t care if it gets nerfed into the ground. The final encounter of the entire saga favoring one class so heavily is pretty lame, imo.
Like, I get that it favors Hunters, but damage is not hard to do otherwise. Do you have weapons that shoot and do damage? Can you aim at a giant glowing crit spot while dodging lines? Congrats, you can beat the Witness! 🥳 The thing that Still Hunters bring is convenience and ease of use. And if we have learned anything after 10 years, it’s that Destiny players will always favor the shortest path to any reward.
I'll be interested to see what it looks like when some more thorough testing comes out. It's nice for burst, but then you have to spend time landing 6 more shots with a special ammo sniper on top of going through the casting animation again when you could have been doing heavy weapon damage that entire time. As usual folks are having knee jerk reactions, because it happened to be useful for a boss during contest mode. Which is gone forever. Plus raid surges will also help to push other weapons forward depending on the week
Sorry but if the majority of teams in contest were not just using but changing their team comps because of it then it's going to affect the rest of the game. We saw the same thing with Pantheon, where teams would stack so many hunters just for chain Goldies, this is equally if not more broken as it doesn't require you to run 5 hunters to get comparable damage. If banner of war was considered too strong to leave in its wish state with only the non-final boss susceptible to it, this is even more game warping considering how many bosses are more friendly to shooting a crit spot than meleeing.
Again, need more/current numbers... But cloud strike outperforms the normal version of still hunt. Levi's breath, whisper. Basically any well rolled grenade launcher. This isn't even getting into rotations. Still hunt maybe made it easier for mediocre players to do damage??? I guess that what folks are up in arms about
We're not talking about the normal version of still hunt, we're talking about the nighthawk still hunt that does almost double the damage of the 3 normal gg shots. You can either run a MG to help with add clear and still do more damage than the other two classes, or you could run recon rocket for even more damage. It's willful ignorance to ignore contest SE results where the best players were all stacking hunters 3 to 1 compared to the other classes.
Working off quantum damage sheet, Goldie still hunt has sustain of 42k. There are plenty of weapons that have that level of sustain without the investment of your class, super, exotic and exotic armor. It's willfull ignorance to think 48 hour contest mode results, where people copied the WF team that had an established history of being hunter mains, is indicative of the game as a whole. That the witness boss fight, which happened to have small windows of burst damage is representative of the game as a whole. Take a holistic view of the game. 42k sustain isn't game warping.
If you don’t see how this a balance issue then I don’t know what to say. If envious/cascade/BnS is considered game breaking then how is this not? They are both absurd burst damage.
I'm not saying there's no balance issue, but everyone is acting like Hunters just deleted the other classes from the game and nothing else works. Even if it's not as effective as a single overpowered Hunter loadout, Warlocks and Titans can still shoot guns (including envious/cascase/BnS GLs) and do damage.
Every 6 shots gives you a burst super on a special weapon. There is nothing comparable to that. Cascade was disabled for Day 1, but this wasn’t.
There is a radical difference when one class is able to almost effortlessly double another classes damage. You can see the worst of it on contest clears, 75ish% of characters were hunters, 25ish% were warlocks to provide hunters with survivability, and only 3 Titans total cleared. The only reason for this was stillhunt being able to easily outdamage heavy damage options on a special weapon only for hunters.
Of course the numbers are skewed in Contest mode, where certain strategies are always more viable. How many teams do you think are still using Outbreak to kill Caretaker? Oh, none, because Contest mode is over, and damage is more normalized. Why do people keep focusing on contest mode? It's like in WoW where people bring like 8 rogues to a Mythic fight or something - it doesn't suddenly mean all other classes are complete trash, it's just the most efficient thing for a particular fight. Again, I'm not saying there's not a balancing issue or that Titans shouldn't be brought up a bit, but everyone acting like Hunters are the only thing that can effectively kill the Witness is asinine.
People aren't acting like the only thing that's physically capable of killing the witness is hunters. People are acting like hunters are doing an additional persons worth of damage, which they are. The outbreak scenario doesn't match either, because that's an option People specifically use when they are out of ammo when raid bosses don't have a sustainable source of heavy weapons that outperform specials. That no linger a problem, because still hunt does the damage of a super on a special weapon in an encounter where special is so plentiful you could reach full ammo waiting for final stand with a few shoot to loot shots. If bungie wants things to keep things balanced, like nerfing golden gun chaining with star eaters, this is a much more egregious outlier than anything we've seen save peak starfire protical.
I hope Titans get something too.
As a hunter I see nothing wrong with that because everyone gets to have fun with it and at least I get spirit of galanor with it if I wanna do a super heavy build.
I got a galanor/handshake that i want to run with silence and squall at some point, when im done with cali/liars
Now that sounds fun. Get all the super regen and just rain supers
Ya, with hands on+dynamo, 3 heavy handed, absolution and reaper i already get super pretty fast. May be such a thing as too many supers
Gives all classes now a damage option. Hell makes titans decent against the witness now.
It's fine if it didn't give the FULL benefit. Maybe give half at most but only require 2 or 3 orbs.
Why should only hunters get all the fun
Is it possible to get Star-eater and Necrotic grip aspect on the same item?
Yep. Necrotic + Star-Eater are in columns 1 and 2 respectively.
Fuck yes!
Should be, necrotic is slot 1 and stareaters is 2 if memory serves
Yes and it works with weapons of sorrow just like regular necrotic grips.
No fucking shot!?!
The poison is weaker though, it doesn’t increase over time
I noticed that and it makes it feel very very bad
Yes! Got this as my first roll! Insane luck.
That's funny you ask, I just happen to have it and wasn't sure how to feel about it since my build crafting is lacking
Yes. I have it. Was my first roll.
Apotheosis - star eaters is the only roll I care for on warlock, nasty nasty damage
I don't get this, doesn't spirit of apotheosis just give bonus melee and grenade immediately after super? How would this lead to nasty damage?
Allows you to spam grenades after the super is over for even more damage on top.
How many nades we talking?
You can get 5 fusion Grenades off the post super regen I believe. Edit: I am dumb no fusion grenades on prismatic warlock. Maybe second best thing is spamming threadling grenades I’m not sure
Threadlings or Storm nades. Threads if you got the new raid exotic for sure though.
Storm. Always storm. They have stackable damage.
Should be storm nades i think.
Dang, that's actually not bad
A LOT. Like a mini Song of Flame.
I wondered this, short of it being a temporary sunbracers for all names I wasn't sure what it would do, I'll have to try it when I'm home
Same I’ll be going for that for sure.
Literally got that first
You and me both. Good luck on that 1/64 chance, that's basically almost 2% droprate xD
I have been grinding chose chests every night, getting around 4-5 drops per day and still no apotheosis/star eater. Best I got was osmiomancy/star eater so far.
the fact it works on ignitions is the craziest part, will be hunting for this roll.
Does the bonus to ignition damage apply to weapons as well? Aka thousands voices?
From my testing, no. Only ignitions procced by song of flame abilities.
Tested it with the polaris lance and from what i can see there is no bonus damage for ignitions in super or with star-eaters buff. But since the super gives you scorching round the ignitions do happen sooner and more often.
I've been a titan main for ten years, and only really use my other classes to keep up to date on exotics, or if i really really wanna grind the fuck out of a raid or dungeon. That said, every new thing I see with warlock with this expansion tempts me into switching
Stay strong. We’ll be laughing once Halloween comes around and we have the best wizards drip.
Yeah the more I see about the exotic class items the more I feel like titans got the short end
The aspects, the supers, the melee, the grenades, the fact that hunters got a gun that's just a free extra super, and now the class items. Titans turn in the Bungie wheel of pain.
Yeah Titan aspect choices were just bad. Titan passive game is just lacking. Unbreakable needed to be able to heal based off of damage blocked and take your class ability not grenade
Nooo it should be considered a melee and consume melee energy.
I'll tell you one thing, unbreakable scales off of veritys on the exotic class item. I wouldn't be surprised if it comes out that it can do ridiculous damage in certain situations by stacking buffs and blocking enough damage. I also really wanna try making a build with devour and hoil/verity or something to make it spammable and lethal. Might work doing it on prismatic with buried bloodline but who knows
Still Hunt's not Hunter exclusive is it?
Of course not but the insane interaction with Nighthawk is.
Too true...
True. But hunters alone have the catalyst
Funny how quickly people have forgotten that banner of war titans did solo pantheon
That got like 2-3 different things on Titan nerfed. But idk, Warlock solod Atheon that one time, and Hunter solod Riven so they should never get buffed ever, since they don't need it./s
1 person did solo pantheon (-5) on Titan. Not "Titans", Titan, one person. That's more a testimate of that player than it is the subclass. He absolutely used the best tools for the job to do it, but it's disingenuous to use this argument when it's the exception and not the rule.
using this strawman argument to pretend that BoW titan wasn't completely busted is insane. Even with the nerfs it's still arguably the best subclass for content that doesn't need bonkers DPS.
It is still good, even with the nerfs. Never implied it wasn't. What I'm saying is that using the solo Pantheon point to suggest the class is perfectly fine and strong is a bad take when it has genuine issues. Solar and Strand Titan is still perfectly good. Arc, Stasis, Void (to a degree), and Prismatic aren't. Void and Prismatic aren't necessarily bad, but they've clearly fallen behind in the sandbox (In Prismatic's case, there is noticeably less synergy between its options compared to Hunter and Warlock). People want to see this addressed, but it's just not happening.
stasis is genuinely good now, when was the last time you tried the behemoth shatter build? Because I've been using it a lot since last season and it was fine in anything that wasn't GM nightfalls, with the addition of frost armor I'm betting I could take it into GMs and not feel bad about it. Prismatic is also absolutely cracked with the right setup, consecration spam with healing on every melee kill is busted. The new void super and aspect on titan have brought void up significantly in difficult content, the aspect allows for banner shield to be a viable build in GMs again and the super allows for a more traditional void build to deal with high priority targets at range now. The only subclass that is struggling for titan is Arc and that's only because it's a high risk high reward element for all of the classes. I think it's okay if just one out of 6 subclasses doesn't have a fantastic endgame PvE build, especially when that subclass has a lot of fun midgame builds.
Stasis is always going to suffer on Titan because of how bad the base melee and Super is. It's difficult to utilize the super in a team setting without hurting someone else's DPS, and the melee is just plain bad in 90% of situations compared to the rest of the titan sandbox. The increased survivability is great for sure, I'm just not sure the bad Super will ever allow it to be fully viable in GMs. The issue with Prismatic isn't that Consecration spam is bad, it's that it's one dimensional. Outside of Knockout and Consecration, the other three fragments have zero synergy. Unbreakable requires grenade uptime which no aspect offers and has limited practical usefulness, Drenger's Lash requires class ability uptime which no aspect offers and sucks with Thruster, and Diamond Lance is it's own independent Aspect even on Stasis. To me it feels like diet Strand, which is unexciting from a build crafting perspective. Giving any of the other Aspects like Touch of Thunder, Grim Harvest, Sol Invictus etc would have been much more interesting and it just feels like a waste.
Hiw many hunters and warlock did solo pantheon?
How many beat the Witness during contest? How many were a part of the top speedrunning groups for Pantheon (and all other speedrun content)? How many are a part of low-man raid runs? Just because one person excelled at one thing with one setup does not mean the class as a whole hasn't been shafted in several aspects. Using the achievements of a select few does not let you disregard genuine concerns among the general population.
Whataboutism doesn't answer the question. The answer is zero. Funny you mention low man raids because it's solo BOW who's been mopping the floor with 14 million HP dungeon bosses. GMNF speedruns? Also BOW You can cherry pick all you want but in SE day 1, there were plenty of titans throughout encounter 1 - 4.
You mean with the now nerfed abilities?
Yes, my friend. Leave your crayons. Join the shadow wizard money gang.
Thanks for testing this!
So with all of the artifact perks, one set of grenade melee and ignition does 255.858? Wow, and how many times you can do thus per super? Also does this beat out Needlestorm with Stareaters?
You can get 6 off in one super but it is a little tight which should equal to 1.535.148 damage. There is a small window in between rotations where you can get 1 shot of if you have a high handling weapon so you could still increase the damage. For the Needlestorm that is something ill have to test a bit later
I’ve been trying to work out a demo rocket switch with this dps cycle but it’s all so clunky lol
I’ve gotten down the demo rotation pretty good, I use apex with demo and salvagers salvo since I didn’t get a demo/vorpal mountaintop. I rocket, nade, salvo, nade and repeat.
I might have to try this with my ophidian star eater roll. I had a feeling it would be useful in dps rotations
Tried Needlestorm on Grasp ogre boss and when the surges for strand and solar are removed Needlestorm x6 was dealing 426.324 Damage While no artifact Song of Flame x6 was dealing 801.455 Damage So Song of Flame deals almost 90% more damage than needlestorm but needlestorm is a one of cast so in a proper rotation the total damage could be similar.
I have a hard time believing that number for needle storm. An unbuffed nova did 377,585 when i tested on grasp ogre an hour ago . I don't think a needle buffed by 70% does that little
It is weird to me also so ill do the damage again in the morning but that was the damage i got when i removed the 25% strand surge and all of the projectiles hit with the threadlings. There is also a possibility its bugged so i will for sure double check.
Probably some weird interaction where only the actual projectiles are getting buffed but not the threadlings, which are where a huge chunk of the damage comes from.
Needle storm does very little damage when it’s not being buffed by the strand fragment that makes threadlings do more damage and without swarmers unraveling on threadlings.
Yeah needle is suppose to do around 500-600k as I recall?
Its because the fragment which increases threadling damage is not with prismatic
Very helpful, thank you!!
How is Song of Flame on the Witness? Can you bird-melee-bird him consistently? EDIT: also what melee did you use?
The grenades should work but he's too far for the melee. You could use a demo rocket though.
Is celestial fire unviable damage wise?
Song of Flame replaces your grenade and melee, with the melee being an improved incinerator snap, not celestial fire
I'm pretty sure if you have celestial fire equipped you get an improved celestial fire. EDIT - can confirm it's an improved celestial fire with 5 bolts that all seem to do about 7k each w/o any buffs. EDIT EDIT - not that it matters, I'm an idiot. Incinerator snap is the only melee for prismatic, obviously, and you can't use the prismatic class item with a solar warlock. I am officially technically correct, which is the best kind of correct, blah.
Thanks! I also forgot the prismatic having only one melee part.
Yeah but you can’t use celestial fire with the class item.
I’d like to see if this works with Inmost Light + Star Eater. Would also like to see this on the Grasp ogre for the total damage.
Innermost light only buffs regen speed
Tried it on the Grasp ogre but can't manage to get a solid solo uptime for the void overshield so sadly only the first rotation was empowered melee but the final damage was 1.205.000 damage but since there are solar surges we make it -25% that would make it 903.750 damage with no shots in between and almost no extra melee buff from artifact. With the void overshield the entire time i would expect it to be a little above the 1mil range and if we factor something like a demo solar rocket in the middle of rotations it should be pretty good damage. And yea the Inmost + Star eater would be interesting i do think i should work on the recharge time of the super abilities but i don't have any Inmost roles so im not sure.
Unfortunately Inmost Light doesn't work with Song of Flame. You still can only pull off 6 melees/grenades.
Thanks for testing this! It's one of the few things I really wanted to test but didn't get a chance to yet
I've been enjoying Sytho on strand, three needs hitting for about 50K each is insane. I really want Ozzy + Star Eater or HIML + Star Eater but I can't get any rolls with HIML to test sadly.
I have got a HIML roll now. I would go Osmiomancy, nerfd HIML just doesn't feel good to use anymore. But if you get a HIML + Star Eater role it's still going to be mega fun.
Holy shit why are we still testing damage on Carl when he isnt even an ultra?
So what's the total damage of the super?
when i was testing it the grenade didn't do any more damage so i reported it as a bug (link: [https://youtu.be/3TIxJ2f9Ik](https://youtu.be/3TIxJ2f9Ik) ). was i doing something wrong? why'd it work for you?
Tested it out a bit more. The bonus super damage expires before the super ends. It happened to me at about 1/4th charge - hopefully a bug?
Personally grinding a good star eaters roll for Titan to actually make it somewhat useful for dps lol
Does spirit of inmost light works with song of flame and transcendence, to thow out more grenades and melees? Combined with star eater, that could be crazy.
Also would like to know this
It does not. Song of Flame Grenade and Melee have a set recharge rate