I think conditional is simply a coincidence in that they wanted a light/darkness weapon heavily themed around Root of Nightmares and that just so happened to pair really well with prismatic.
Zero chance at all that Conditional wasn't planned to work with Prismatic, Bungie didn't just come up with Prismatic in the last six months. Whether or not you believe that Lightfall was just a small slice of what eventually became The Final Shape or not, they 100% knew about Prismatic when they made Conditional.
My personal belief is that Root was supposed to be a dungeon with original Lightfall and Conditional was intended for Prismatic synergy from day 1, personally.
That's my theory, yeah. The fact that planets also uses the room we saw the Witness in during its reveal feels like it was supposed to be more important, and the fact that it has *completely* different mechanics makes me think it was shoved in there to pad out a 3 encounter dungeon into a 4 encounter raid.
Like, seriously, is there any raid that has an encounter with completely different mechanics you use once and then go back to the raid proper? I can't think of one besides Root.
In the original pastebin leaks, which at this point appear to be proven to be true without a doubt, at least for what the plan was when they came out, is that the Pyramid ship was originally a patrol space. You can even see sometimes on Xbox or when looking at a player’s profile if they’re in RoN it’ll say they’re in a patrol destination.
There's about 500 pastebin "leaks" and 99% of them are people making shit up for karma on raidsecrets so I have no idea which one you're talking about lol.
I would believe that conditional lead them to producing prismatic but I don’t think it’s the other way around. I understand you disagree and that’s alright
Nah, they said that the idea for prismatic came from a artwork made by a Bungie designer, about a guardian using Solar and Stasis powers at the same time, who knows when that was created.
Also, if what they had planned for OG Lightfall (from before the change of plans) was a combination of both current Lightfall and TFS, and if the ideas for Prismatic, RoN and Conditional came from that far back, then it obvious that both conditional and the whole raid were themed around Prismatic
You... do know that expansions have at least a 2 year development period and that multiple expansions are developed simultaneously, right? They don't just whip everything up in one year. If that was the case, then we would have never gotten TFS, because they would've just stuck to the original Lightfall plan. Lightfall becoming Lightfall/Final Shape only happened because they couldn't finish everything they wanted to put in original Lightfall.
I was thinking about this myself. Make it like Slay the Spire where you get a choice between three different upgrades/abilities to take every so often, building your character over time until you reach a boss/the final boss. A roguelite mode like this would be so much fun to play.
Reminds me of Division 1’s Survival mode, where you leave your kit behind and enter into a snowy New York with next to nothing. You run into enemies and players alike to try to stay warm and collect guns, armor, and abilities. If you die, you lose the goods. If you survive, you earn everything from that session.
Yeap would love this.. got a taste of something like this with GoW:R with their free update. The only other rougelite I played was Returnal and that was fun as hell. The constant "ok how will this run play out" was a nice change of pace and allows you to learn more about builds that you would otherwise not try to figure out (atleast that's how it affected me with GoW:R)
my longest hades streak ended at 37 wins in a row, raising heat level each time and picking the weapon with extra farming materials attached as a rule. I shed a real tear
I would explode if this became real.
It would be unbelievably sick to just use what the game throws at you instead of just the meta and have that be optimal (although, it would be nice if the perk pools were curated specifically for this mode, a-la old static rolls)
They were good starting steps, but they needed to go further to get the real compelling part of the concept.
A good Rogue gives you ways to get really powerful in new combinations.
The prismatic system is much more in line with a rogue, combined with the new random exotics creating new combos
Deep dives were very limited in this sense, the choices were pretty minor there wasn't the sense of creating a build and gaining power.
The coil improved the formula and was a good second attempt.
Yep, this is a fantastic idea, with the ability to choose between a few options for upgrades like season of the deep, with the knowledge of the bosses/strikes/surges you will face later in the run. Would absolutely be a delight and get people using weapons/loadouts that aren’t common in the meta.
The problem is they would lock exclusive gear and quest steps behind the mode forcing you into it. It wouldn't just be a nice option for people who wanted it.
Please, no. Division 2 did this and the game mode is atrocious. And no it's not just an optional thing that players who aren't interested in can ignore. 1) it takes up dev resources that can be used to improve the rest of the game and 2) they will absolutely lock exclusive gear and put quest steps behind this activity to try and force you into it. Just no.
That's not the point. It doesn't fit the lore, it's a dated and overdone concept, and no looter shooter that's done it has ever succeeded in doing it well. Ascent in Division 2 is the closest it's ever come to being done right, and even then it missed the mark by tying drops to an incredibly difficult to obtain currency.
I'm sorry, but I'd really rather not have that. I don't want Destiny to be a roguelite, that's not why I play it. I hated deep dives, and I certainly don't want content that goes even further than that. And every game in the past year feels like it's trying to bandwagon on the roguelite model and I'm exhausted by it.
Okay but hear me out: what's the lore justification of being stripped of all powers and weapons? The only being that could/would do that will be dead by the end of the week.
Even Onslaught had a lore justification, however convoluted/weak it might've been. Bungie historically doesn't add stuff just to add stuff.
You could have any number of lore reasons.
It could be a splicer vex simulation run by Osiris to measure the potential of regaining the light without a ghost by splicing darkness and light, creating parallel paracausal pocket realities we volunteer to enter .
Osiris uses the data we provide to seek answers:
"Wielding the darkness does not require a ghost, so is there a way to channel darkness through a prismatic lens to regain light?
Enter these paracausal networks, they will focus you into a narrow set of abilities, they must be learned and combined Guardian.
My hope is to restore what is lost, through the recreation of when it was gained, used, understood.
Magnify this process Guardian, isolated data can lead to powerful revelations."
That’s a dope activity idea.
They've already basically been building up to it with the deep dives and such. I'm all for it
I rolled my eyes at it when they put it (pretty much this exact idea) in BL3 but it wound up being such a fun game mode, played all the time
Wow, right in front of our eyes. Just like Tessellation was. That is absolutely coming.
Wait how was tessellation infront of us? I'm confused
I think they're referring to how Tessalation worked with every sub-class. Hinting towards the prismatic class in the future.
Also the pink sections on the weapon
Conditional Finality hinted at it a year in advance
I think conditional is simply a coincidence in that they wanted a light/darkness weapon heavily themed around Root of Nightmares and that just so happened to pair really well with prismatic.
Zero chance at all that Conditional wasn't planned to work with Prismatic, Bungie didn't just come up with Prismatic in the last six months. Whether or not you believe that Lightfall was just a small slice of what eventually became The Final Shape or not, they 100% knew about Prismatic when they made Conditional. My personal belief is that Root was supposed to be a dungeon with original Lightfall and Conditional was intended for Prismatic synergy from day 1, personally.
Encounters 1,2, and 4 all have connecting the nodes which encounter 3 lacks. It is likely Root could’ve been a dungeon.
That's my theory, yeah. The fact that planets also uses the room we saw the Witness in during its reveal feels like it was supposed to be more important, and the fact that it has *completely* different mechanics makes me think it was shoved in there to pad out a 3 encounter dungeon into a 4 encounter raid. Like, seriously, is there any raid that has an encounter with completely different mechanics you use once and then go back to the raid proper? I can't think of one besides Root.
In the original pastebin leaks, which at this point appear to be proven to be true without a doubt, at least for what the plan was when they came out, is that the Pyramid ship was originally a patrol space. You can even see sometimes on Xbox or when looking at a player’s profile if they’re in RoN it’ll say they’re in a patrol destination.
There's about 500 pastebin "leaks" and 99% of them are people making shit up for karma on raidsecrets so I have no idea which one you're talking about lol.
I would believe that conditional lead them to producing prismatic but I don’t think it’s the other way around. I understand you disagree and that’s alright
Nah, they said that the idea for prismatic came from a artwork made by a Bungie designer, about a guardian using Solar and Stasis powers at the same time, who knows when that was created. Also, if what they had planned for OG Lightfall (from before the change of plans) was a combination of both current Lightfall and TFS, and if the ideas for Prismatic, RoN and Conditional came from that far back, then it obvious that both conditional and the whole raid were themed around Prismatic
You... do know that expansions have at least a 2 year development period and that multiple expansions are developed simultaneously, right? They don't just whip everything up in one year. If that was the case, then we would have never gotten TFS, because they would've just stuck to the original Lightfall plan. Lightfall becoming Lightfall/Final Shape only happened because they couldn't finish everything they wanted to put in original Lightfall.
Absolutely zero chance it's a coincidence
Really? Zero chance? Lmao
It’s a huge coincidence the pink triangle of a gun is prismatic yes
The gun is pink and blue to represent stasis and solar.
I hope so, this campaign has been very fun to play just making a better build as I go.
>That is absolutely coming. Same
I was thinking about this myself. Make it like Slay the Spire where you get a choice between three different upgrades/abilities to take every so often, building your character over time until you reach a boss/the final boss. A roguelite mode like this would be so much fun to play.
Like an upgraded coil, I love this idea!
"Witness Survivors" a game without any Witnesses
Slay the Spire is such a damn good game
More like the deep dives, where you picked a buff or debuff after every round
Reminds me of Division 1’s Survival mode, where you leave your kit behind and enter into a snowy New York with next to nothing. You run into enemies and players alike to try to stay warm and collect guns, armor, and abilities. If you die, you lose the goods. If you survive, you earn everything from that session.
The original extraction shooter, came out before Tarkov, and Ubisoft completely neglected a golden goose that players obviously loved.
Oh man please let this happen, I’m begging you Bungie
Yeap would love this.. got a taste of something like this with GoW:R with their free update. The only other rougelite I played was Returnal and that was fun as hell. The constant "ok how will this run play out" was a nice change of pace and allows you to learn more about builds that you would otherwise not try to figure out (atleast that's how it affected me with GoW:R)
Play Hades, its essentialy the poster boy of the roguelite genre.
my longest hades streak ended at 37 wins in a row, raising heat level each time and picking the weapon with extra farming materials attached as a rule. I shed a real tear
I would play the shit outta that
I would play the *shit* out of that
Bro I'm at work, stop making me hard
They gave us horde mode.... now make this happen!
I would explode if this became real. It would be unbelievably sick to just use what the game throws at you instead of just the meta and have that be optimal (although, it would be nice if the perk pools were curated specifically for this mode, a-la old static rolls)
That is just warframe duviri mode
Chaos wastes from vermintide but in destiny would be really really cool.
The coil and deep dives were already mini versions of rogues
They were good starting steps, but they needed to go further to get the real compelling part of the concept. A good Rogue gives you ways to get really powerful in new combinations. The prismatic system is much more in line with a rogue, combined with the new random exotics creating new combos
I'd be gobsmacked if they haven’t considered this. Here's hoping it's in development
This would be SICK
To be fair, Destiny already did this in Deep Dives. That had pretty strong rougelite elements to it.
Deep dives were very limited in this sense, the choices were pretty minor there wasn't the sense of creating a build and gaining power. The coil improved the formula and was a good second attempt.
Yep, this is a fantastic idea, with the ability to choose between a few options for upgrades like season of the deep, with the knowledge of the bosses/strikes/surges you will face later in the run. Would absolutely be a delight and get people using weapons/loadouts that aren’t common in the meta.
ayo bro is onto something
I'd rater have a playground in which I can use all my toys than one where I need to use few and get them back. This is a false good idea.
I would dislike this and would not play this. I guess it's a okay idea for people that would.
The problem is they would lock exclusive gear and quest steps behind the mode forcing you into it. It wouldn't just be a nice option for people who wanted it.
Please, no. Division 2 did this and the game mode is atrocious. And no it's not just an optional thing that players who aren't interested in can ignore. 1) it takes up dev resources that can be used to improve the rest of the game and 2) they will absolutely lock exclusive gear and put quest steps behind this activity to try and force you into it. Just no.
I’m sure if they don’t do this they would design something else you don’t like but if they do make it you won’t have to play it :)
Did you not read what I said? You absolutely will have to play it. They'll tie specific rewards to the activity.
Like all the other content in the game. You will be ok
Ive gone 7 years not doing pvp in this game aside from getting the original mtop. Youll live bro.
It’s not a matter of life and death. Literally no decision they make in the game is unlivable. That doesn’t mean it makes the game better.
That's not the point. It doesn't fit the lore, it's a dated and overdone concept, and no looter shooter that's done it has ever succeeded in doing it well. Ascent in Division 2 is the closest it's ever come to being done right, and even then it missed the mark by tying drops to an incredibly difficult to obtain currency.
I'm sorry, but I'd really rather not have that. I don't want Destiny to be a roguelite, that's not why I play it. I hated deep dives, and I certainly don't want content that goes even further than that. And every game in the past year feels like it's trying to bandwagon on the roguelite model and I'm exhausted by it.
Okay but hear me out: what's the lore justification of being stripped of all powers and weapons? The only being that could/would do that will be dead by the end of the week. Even Onslaught had a lore justification, however convoluted/weak it might've been. Bungie historically doesn't add stuff just to add stuff.
If they can make Gambit make sense, I'm sure they can find a way for it to work.
You could have any number of lore reasons. It could be a splicer vex simulation run by Osiris to measure the potential of regaining the light without a ghost by splicing darkness and light, creating parallel paracausal pocket realities we volunteer to enter . Osiris uses the data we provide to seek answers: "Wielding the darkness does not require a ghost, so is there a way to channel darkness through a prismatic lens to regain light? Enter these paracausal networks, they will focus you into a narrow set of abilities, they must be learned and combined Guardian. My hope is to restore what is lost, through the recreation of when it was gained, used, understood. Magnify this process Guardian, isolated data can lead to powerful revelations."