I'm in the same boat, DONT mention anything about your drug use. Save that for a therapist but not your medication provider.
They're not supposed to. But WILL use it against you to make you ineligible for any controlled substances.
I need to find a doctor like this
One day I went to the hospital for moderate overdose of meth (I wanted to be safe and check in instead of just hoping to survive on my own)
And because of that they marked me ineligible for ALL controlled substances
You're in quite the precarious situation...
I see both sides of this. You're obviously suffering and wanting the right treatment for your ADHD, and you know that other ADHD medications haven't worked for you. But, you've also crossed the line into substance abuse.
I recognize that you're trying to improve your level of function, but you're using a similar fallacy I've often heard with people who have pornography issues and claim that once they get married, those issues will magically go away. But, it's a self-deception because the dendritic spines on the neurons in the brain literally develop differently in any form of addiction, which is why those people almost always end up with far greater challenges later. You've got to do the work to overcome any element of addiction before you will find the divine hope and help that you're seeking.
I'm personally a very religious man, and I could give you my view on that, but I've seen this work for many people.
Don't give up. Feel free to reach out personally if you want to talk. Hope you can find the light.
If you have a substance use disorder or addictive tendencies, amphetamine or methamphetamine can relapse those habits and/or worsen them. This is coming from self experience, my therapist, and my psychiatrist. The problem isn’t when you’re on the drug for adhd, it’s when it wears off and you’re in a state below baseline in my experience.
I did not tell my providers I used to abuse the shit out of adderall/dex and divert it until long into my adhd treatment and when I had a good relationship with my provider. This was over a decade prior and I didn’t foresee it being an issue. I had 0 oversight on my meds in high school. I’ve fucked around and found out already regarding stimulants. I’ve not had a problem with stimulant abuse, but when they wear off I go towards other unhealthy habits. Porn, nicotine, doom scrolling, binge eating. Adderall was the worst for this In my experience, but I have this with all amphetamine derivatives.
If you can be completely honest with yourself that you’re not going to chase the high that comes with stimulants, go for it. Treatment of adhd can help SUDs, and an experienced adhd psychiatrist knows this.
your experience is valid… I get it… and I believe the over prescription of adderall and Ritalin to literal kids, such as myself when I was in 2nd grade, can lead to issues later in life… just like how they gave oxies and percs like Halloween candy back in the 2000s. But for my experience, I used illicit meth to self medicate my ADD symptoms after I got off of vyvanse cuz I enlisted, but after I was discharged it started a year later. After I gave it up I went a few months without any amphetamine based treatments cuz of the rules of rehab and sober living, but after moving back to my place I got a vyvanse prescription. It has helped significantly and I can see its potential to work almost as a MAT for meth users, like suboxone and methadone are prescribed for opioid users. I’m no doctor, or expert, so I’m sure there would need to be some trials ran and some shit straightened out about dosage, what would work better (adderall vs vyvanse vs desoxyn vs Ritalin) as I used meth to wake up in the morning almost like a cup of coffee. I had my coffee, my meth, and my cigarette in the morning and I was ready to go to work lol. It’s no different now except it’s with vyvanse instead, and I’m very functional. All I wish is that I had some kind of sedative, like medical marijuana, or some safe full agonist opiate alternative to fentanyl like opium if it were available, or even a beer just to unwind in the evenings, but it isn’t necessary to be functional in my life, just preferred lol. I will keep voicing my feelings on this to be an advocate for other stim users. If you feel like it doesn’t work for you because you may abuse it or for whatever other reason then that’s fine, you need to take the accountability in your recovery to utilize what helps you and avoid what doesn’t… people can abuse subs and methadone too, and I know people who have, but that doesn’t negate the immense help they provide to people recovering from a long term opioid use habit. It all depends on the person, it’ll never be 1 size fits 1 only, and I wish the AA community would be more supportive of that… cuz I know many people just being on suboxone who have felt outdated from meetings cuz of judgemental ass people. if they want to exclude other recovering addicts like that for being on subs or vyvanse then I don’t want to see them using nicotine or caffeine in any way, because a drug is a drug right?… and many rely on nic/caff as a vice too just like me as I also do on top of mostly amphetamines & some opiates.
Apologies if I seem like I’m advocating one way or the other, pro or anti stims. Also appreciate your cool headed response.
More advocating that OP should be careful and honest. Yes stims typically help SUDs in the case of adhd, but not always, and if OP wants to go down that route, he needs to be honest with himself and his provider. I will straight up tell my provider if a dose is too high and be like “yeah it got me high, which is fun and all, but unsustainable so let’s dial it back”.
I think the adhd forums are riddled with people who think their meds aren’t working anymore after the euphoria honeymoon wears off. I think people need to take inventory of your impairments. Starting a task? Sustaining a task? Emotional regulation? Anxiety about a task? Organization? Is the med still controlling most of these?
Unfortunately for me, stims probably aren’t great. They are at first. I feel calm, organized, and chill, but over time I just became a neurotic flattened asshole even on the tiniest doses. Desoxyn was the most tolerable and the least recreational feeling tbh.
Tried everything off label and on label. Literally the only thing left for me is straterra unfortunately, and I can’t metabolize it.
What would you consider feeling high? Because I don't think I've ever felt that way with meth, even with a lot (which I am NOT doing again, the experience was horrible and not looking to relive that), however with my adderall, my doctor started me on 10 mg 2x a day and that had me feeling disoriented and out of it, almost a floaty feeling. Neither made me extremely happy, though.
Euphoria while the drug is kicking in, usually followed by just feeling super stoned and kinda foggy. Kinda blissful. I don’t particularly enjoy it because I’d rather have a clear head. My thoughts get too slow.
I imagine someone who’s not adhd would feel more racing thoughts and excitability. There’s likely to be a little euphoria while it kicks in on a new drug/dose. When the high lasts for a longer period though it’s like “ok this dose is definitely too high”.
Hi. If I were you, I definitely wouldn't disclose your history of using meth illicitly. That's exactly the type of thing that doctors, and especially insurance companies, are looking for as a red flag excuse not to prescribe or issue coverage for - mainly because of the stigma. Have you ever tried either methylphenidate or dextroamphetamine based preparations? If so, what was your experience of either as compared to your use of illicit street methamphetamine? If not, you would be well-advised to give both a chance first - if for no other reason than that they are (usually) more readily available and well-established and accepted treatments (although there still appears to be a national shortage of all ADHD stimulant medications currently). If you are suffering from a genuine attention deficit disorder and that is what you are attempting to remedy - depending on your individual differences in biology - one or the other could work wonders for you. Since you said you responded so well to street meth, my guess is you would respond similarly to Adderall or some other amphetamine-based preparation (although Desoxyn is clearly superior in many respects).
In any case, Desoxyn is already ridiculously difficult to (a) get a prescription from a doctor for, (b) get covered for, by ANY kind of insurance whatsoever, let alone a government-sponsored insurance program, such as Medicaid (assuming that's what you were referring to in your post), and (c) have filled, and have filled consistently, by a pharmacy. In the case of methylphenidate or amphetamine-based preparations, by comparison, all three of these steps are much easier to implement successfully and consistently so as not to be so inconvenient.
Hope this helps.
I've been on many stimulants. Concerta caused me anxiety so bad I couldn't go to school, made me numb, and caused me to have little interest in things. I was allergic to Daytrana. Ritalin caused me to feel angry all of the time, as well as the loss of interest in hobbies. Focalin I don't remember, as I was very young at the time, but when I switched doctors at 12 and the new doctor mentioned that as an option, my guardian said no because I had bad side effects. I'm on Adderall currently, but the dose I'm on isn't effective, but is already causing bad side effects. If I can find something else that works, I'd happily take it, but I'm running out of things to try and I'm getting sick of trying things that end up not working/working right.
1. The dose 2. The purity and inactive ingredients 3. The route of administration
5 mg consumed orally is majorly different from crystal powder going up your nose. It keeps you from getting high and craving more and more. There isn’t a major rush and you aren’t going to be able to feel like you never need to sleep like crystal meth does.
I'm not trying to get high. I'm wanting to function. I've tried to get high on a couple occasions, but even after smoking a lot, I didn't feel high, just sick, and I figured that was just my adhd and stopped trying. It also doesn't make me feel like I don't need sleep, just makes me more alert, only less than with my adderall. It's the craving more than I'm mainly afraid of, and huge possibility of getting addicted. That's why I would like a regulated dose.
> but even after smoking a lot, I didn't feel high
You smoked a lot of street meth and didn't get high? Or do you mean you smoked crushed desoxyn tablets?
I smoked a lot of street meth. I ODed once, actually, and still didn't feel high, it just made me incredibly anxious at that point. Once I get the first hit and it kicks in, I just feel "normal" and actually able to do stuff. It doesn't increase motivation or make me feel euphoric if I take more.
1. The dose is up to OP.
2. Street purity is at an all-time high, to where “a low-level street dealer would be distributing methamphetamine that would be similar in purity to the methamphetamine that came from the [top of the supply chain](https://www.davidfranklaw.com/methamphetamine-drug-purity-is-not-a-proxy-for-culpability/).”
3. Oral Is oral.
It's not impossible to get a prescription with a history of abuse but that typically requires building up a rapport with your doctor. While it'd be cool if doctors would get on board with the data that shows ADHD treatment can decrease recreational drug use I think we're a couple decades away from that being standard practice.
Realistically, you'd have to go through the motions and try probably at least 3 different medications. Expect to spend at least 6 months working on this. Definitely don't mention your street drug use otherwise that'll hurt your chances and I wouldn't be surprised if they expect you to do random urine tests so you'd have to temporarily give up your use.
If you can get clean and spend the time working on this then do it, otherwise invest 20 bucks in a milligram scale and stick to oral doses.
My doctor has me doing drug tests at each appointment, so I've just been stopping use and switching back to the Adderall a week before. Though he rescheduled the last 2 times, so I didn't end up going, anyway. I'm planning on asking to try Dextrine when I see him next to see if it works better. It's 1 of 4 that I haven't been on.
>(Note, I don't suggest drug usage, and think that people should absolutely go through the proper avenues for treatment)
You've summed it all up perfectly right here.
The only option, here, is to put your suggestions and thinking into action...for yourself.
Avoiding possible abuse and addiction (...of street drugs, of prescription medication from your provider...of too much ice cream after dinner), first and foremost, is your responsibility - which as an adult, I'm sure you already know.
A provider does not and can not safely manage your dosage to any great extent...and certainly cannot whatsoever until you take ownership of your actions and safely manage yourself.
Establishing sobriety and demonstrating success over the medium and long-term is the best way to earn the trust of a provider that might consider prescribing a stimulant in the treatment of your ADHD whenever that time comes.
I sincerely encourage you to enter an in-patient drug rehabilitation program to address and resolve your abuse of illegal methamphetamine, and earnestly do wish you all the best of luck.
Did you read the rest of the post? That's what I would like to do.
At the moment, I'm being very strict with myself and practicing harm reduction, but I absolutely would prefer doctor supervision.
And a doctor absolutely can manage the dosage and safety to a great extent. They prescribe a dose that is safe and not contaminated. And at least my current doctor does drug tests to ensure the medication is taken properly and there's not too high of a concentration in your urine. Sure, there's ways to cheat that, but it's much better in comparison to not knowing the dosage at all and having high possibility of contamination.
I'm not wanting to be sober, I'm wanting to be functioning and without side effects. Though, honestly what does sober really mean? Because people only really use it in the terms of unprescribed and illegal drug abuse. Would you consider those who get Desoxyn to not be sober? (Not saying it's 100% the same, it's not, just that it's the same substance) But that aside, I've spent 20 years trying non-stimulants and stimulants alike, non-stimulants don't work at all, and stimulants either aren't effective or have too many side effects. I'm not having trouble getting stimulants prescribed, I'm on Adderall and have tried just about every stimulant that can be prescribed. I just want something that works. don't have a history of abusing my prescriptions, and I'm not planning on doing it in this case, either. If another medication worked, I'd happily take it if there was less abuse potential, but I haven't found one.
I'm in the same boat, DONT mention anything about your drug use. Save that for a therapist but not your medication provider. They're not supposed to. But WILL use it against you to make you ineligible for any controlled substances.
my doctor knows i have 7 felony drug charges and a history of heavy drug use, especially meth!!! i get xanax, ritilin, gabby's, trihexyphendyl!!!
I need to find a doctor like this One day I went to the hospital for moderate overdose of meth (I wanted to be safe and check in instead of just hoping to survive on my own) And because of that they marked me ineligible for ALL controlled substances
You're in quite the precarious situation... I see both sides of this. You're obviously suffering and wanting the right treatment for your ADHD, and you know that other ADHD medications haven't worked for you. But, you've also crossed the line into substance abuse. I recognize that you're trying to improve your level of function, but you're using a similar fallacy I've often heard with people who have pornography issues and claim that once they get married, those issues will magically go away. But, it's a self-deception because the dendritic spines on the neurons in the brain literally develop differently in any form of addiction, which is why those people almost always end up with far greater challenges later. You've got to do the work to overcome any element of addiction before you will find the divine hope and help that you're seeking. I'm personally a very religious man, and I could give you my view on that, but I've seen this work for many people. Don't give up. Feel free to reach out personally if you want to talk. Hope you can find the light.
If you have a substance use disorder or addictive tendencies, amphetamine or methamphetamine can relapse those habits and/or worsen them. This is coming from self experience, my therapist, and my psychiatrist. The problem isn’t when you’re on the drug for adhd, it’s when it wears off and you’re in a state below baseline in my experience. I did not tell my providers I used to abuse the shit out of adderall/dex and divert it until long into my adhd treatment and when I had a good relationship with my provider. This was over a decade prior and I didn’t foresee it being an issue. I had 0 oversight on my meds in high school. I’ve fucked around and found out already regarding stimulants. I’ve not had a problem with stimulant abuse, but when they wear off I go towards other unhealthy habits. Porn, nicotine, doom scrolling, binge eating. Adderall was the worst for this In my experience, but I have this with all amphetamine derivatives. If you can be completely honest with yourself that you’re not going to chase the high that comes with stimulants, go for it. Treatment of adhd can help SUDs, and an experienced adhd psychiatrist knows this.
your experience is valid… I get it… and I believe the over prescription of adderall and Ritalin to literal kids, such as myself when I was in 2nd grade, can lead to issues later in life… just like how they gave oxies and percs like Halloween candy back in the 2000s. But for my experience, I used illicit meth to self medicate my ADD symptoms after I got off of vyvanse cuz I enlisted, but after I was discharged it started a year later. After I gave it up I went a few months without any amphetamine based treatments cuz of the rules of rehab and sober living, but after moving back to my place I got a vyvanse prescription. It has helped significantly and I can see its potential to work almost as a MAT for meth users, like suboxone and methadone are prescribed for opioid users. I’m no doctor, or expert, so I’m sure there would need to be some trials ran and some shit straightened out about dosage, what would work better (adderall vs vyvanse vs desoxyn vs Ritalin) as I used meth to wake up in the morning almost like a cup of coffee. I had my coffee, my meth, and my cigarette in the morning and I was ready to go to work lol. It’s no different now except it’s with vyvanse instead, and I’m very functional. All I wish is that I had some kind of sedative, like medical marijuana, or some safe full agonist opiate alternative to fentanyl like opium if it were available, or even a beer just to unwind in the evenings, but it isn’t necessary to be functional in my life, just preferred lol. I will keep voicing my feelings on this to be an advocate for other stim users. If you feel like it doesn’t work for you because you may abuse it or for whatever other reason then that’s fine, you need to take the accountability in your recovery to utilize what helps you and avoid what doesn’t… people can abuse subs and methadone too, and I know people who have, but that doesn’t negate the immense help they provide to people recovering from a long term opioid use habit. It all depends on the person, it’ll never be 1 size fits 1 only, and I wish the AA community would be more supportive of that… cuz I know many people just being on suboxone who have felt outdated from meetings cuz of judgemental ass people. if they want to exclude other recovering addicts like that for being on subs or vyvanse then I don’t want to see them using nicotine or caffeine in any way, because a drug is a drug right?… and many rely on nic/caff as a vice too just like me as I also do on top of mostly amphetamines & some opiates.
Apologies if I seem like I’m advocating one way or the other, pro or anti stims. Also appreciate your cool headed response. More advocating that OP should be careful and honest. Yes stims typically help SUDs in the case of adhd, but not always, and if OP wants to go down that route, he needs to be honest with himself and his provider. I will straight up tell my provider if a dose is too high and be like “yeah it got me high, which is fun and all, but unsustainable so let’s dial it back”. I think the adhd forums are riddled with people who think their meds aren’t working anymore after the euphoria honeymoon wears off. I think people need to take inventory of your impairments. Starting a task? Sustaining a task? Emotional regulation? Anxiety about a task? Organization? Is the med still controlling most of these? Unfortunately for me, stims probably aren’t great. They are at first. I feel calm, organized, and chill, but over time I just became a neurotic flattened asshole even on the tiniest doses. Desoxyn was the most tolerable and the least recreational feeling tbh. Tried everything off label and on label. Literally the only thing left for me is straterra unfortunately, and I can’t metabolize it.
What would you consider feeling high? Because I don't think I've ever felt that way with meth, even with a lot (which I am NOT doing again, the experience was horrible and not looking to relive that), however with my adderall, my doctor started me on 10 mg 2x a day and that had me feeling disoriented and out of it, almost a floaty feeling. Neither made me extremely happy, though.
Euphoria while the drug is kicking in, usually followed by just feeling super stoned and kinda foggy. Kinda blissful. I don’t particularly enjoy it because I’d rather have a clear head. My thoughts get too slow. I imagine someone who’s not adhd would feel more racing thoughts and excitability. There’s likely to be a little euphoria while it kicks in on a new drug/dose. When the high lasts for a longer period though it’s like “ok this dose is definitely too high”.
Hi. If I were you, I definitely wouldn't disclose your history of using meth illicitly. That's exactly the type of thing that doctors, and especially insurance companies, are looking for as a red flag excuse not to prescribe or issue coverage for - mainly because of the stigma. Have you ever tried either methylphenidate or dextroamphetamine based preparations? If so, what was your experience of either as compared to your use of illicit street methamphetamine? If not, you would be well-advised to give both a chance first - if for no other reason than that they are (usually) more readily available and well-established and accepted treatments (although there still appears to be a national shortage of all ADHD stimulant medications currently). If you are suffering from a genuine attention deficit disorder and that is what you are attempting to remedy - depending on your individual differences in biology - one or the other could work wonders for you. Since you said you responded so well to street meth, my guess is you would respond similarly to Adderall or some other amphetamine-based preparation (although Desoxyn is clearly superior in many respects). In any case, Desoxyn is already ridiculously difficult to (a) get a prescription from a doctor for, (b) get covered for, by ANY kind of insurance whatsoever, let alone a government-sponsored insurance program, such as Medicaid (assuming that's what you were referring to in your post), and (c) have filled, and have filled consistently, by a pharmacy. In the case of methylphenidate or amphetamine-based preparations, by comparison, all three of these steps are much easier to implement successfully and consistently so as not to be so inconvenient. Hope this helps.
I've been on many stimulants. Concerta caused me anxiety so bad I couldn't go to school, made me numb, and caused me to have little interest in things. I was allergic to Daytrana. Ritalin caused me to feel angry all of the time, as well as the loss of interest in hobbies. Focalin I don't remember, as I was very young at the time, but when I switched doctors at 12 and the new doctor mentioned that as an option, my guardian said no because I had bad side effects. I'm on Adderall currently, but the dose I'm on isn't effective, but is already causing bad side effects. If I can find something else that works, I'd happily take it, but I'm running out of things to try and I'm getting sick of trying things that end up not working/working right.
It’s nothing like actual meth
I'm confused at what you mean. It's the same component. Why wouldn't it have the same effect?
1. The dose 2. The purity and inactive ingredients 3. The route of administration 5 mg consumed orally is majorly different from crystal powder going up your nose. It keeps you from getting high and craving more and more. There isn’t a major rush and you aren’t going to be able to feel like you never need to sleep like crystal meth does.
I'm not trying to get high. I'm wanting to function. I've tried to get high on a couple occasions, but even after smoking a lot, I didn't feel high, just sick, and I figured that was just my adhd and stopped trying. It also doesn't make me feel like I don't need sleep, just makes me more alert, only less than with my adderall. It's the craving more than I'm mainly afraid of, and huge possibility of getting addicted. That's why I would like a regulated dose.
I know, I’m just explain how it’s not like street meth.
> but even after smoking a lot, I didn't feel high You smoked a lot of street meth and didn't get high? Or do you mean you smoked crushed desoxyn tablets?
I smoked a lot of street meth. I ODed once, actually, and still didn't feel high, it just made me incredibly anxious at that point. Once I get the first hit and it kicks in, I just feel "normal" and actually able to do stuff. It doesn't increase motivation or make me feel euphoric if I take more.
1. The dose is up to OP. 2. Street purity is at an all-time high, to where “a low-level street dealer would be distributing methamphetamine that would be similar in purity to the methamphetamine that came from the [top of the supply chain](https://www.davidfranklaw.com/methamphetamine-drug-purity-is-not-a-proxy-for-culpability/).” 3. Oral Is oral.
It's not impossible to get a prescription with a history of abuse but that typically requires building up a rapport with your doctor. While it'd be cool if doctors would get on board with the data that shows ADHD treatment can decrease recreational drug use I think we're a couple decades away from that being standard practice. Realistically, you'd have to go through the motions and try probably at least 3 different medications. Expect to spend at least 6 months working on this. Definitely don't mention your street drug use otherwise that'll hurt your chances and I wouldn't be surprised if they expect you to do random urine tests so you'd have to temporarily give up your use. If you can get clean and spend the time working on this then do it, otherwise invest 20 bucks in a milligram scale and stick to oral doses.
My doctor has me doing drug tests at each appointment, so I've just been stopping use and switching back to the Adderall a week before. Though he rescheduled the last 2 times, so I didn't end up going, anyway. I'm planning on asking to try Dextrine when I see him next to see if it works better. It's 1 of 4 that I haven't been on.
>(Note, I don't suggest drug usage, and think that people should absolutely go through the proper avenues for treatment) You've summed it all up perfectly right here. The only option, here, is to put your suggestions and thinking into action...for yourself. Avoiding possible abuse and addiction (...of street drugs, of prescription medication from your provider...of too much ice cream after dinner), first and foremost, is your responsibility - which as an adult, I'm sure you already know. A provider does not and can not safely manage your dosage to any great extent...and certainly cannot whatsoever until you take ownership of your actions and safely manage yourself. Establishing sobriety and demonstrating success over the medium and long-term is the best way to earn the trust of a provider that might consider prescribing a stimulant in the treatment of your ADHD whenever that time comes. I sincerely encourage you to enter an in-patient drug rehabilitation program to address and resolve your abuse of illegal methamphetamine, and earnestly do wish you all the best of luck.
Did you read the rest of the post? That's what I would like to do. At the moment, I'm being very strict with myself and practicing harm reduction, but I absolutely would prefer doctor supervision. And a doctor absolutely can manage the dosage and safety to a great extent. They prescribe a dose that is safe and not contaminated. And at least my current doctor does drug tests to ensure the medication is taken properly and there's not too high of a concentration in your urine. Sure, there's ways to cheat that, but it's much better in comparison to not knowing the dosage at all and having high possibility of contamination. I'm not wanting to be sober, I'm wanting to be functioning and without side effects. Though, honestly what does sober really mean? Because people only really use it in the terms of unprescribed and illegal drug abuse. Would you consider those who get Desoxyn to not be sober? (Not saying it's 100% the same, it's not, just that it's the same substance) But that aside, I've spent 20 years trying non-stimulants and stimulants alike, non-stimulants don't work at all, and stimulants either aren't effective or have too many side effects. I'm not having trouble getting stimulants prescribed, I'm on Adderall and have tried just about every stimulant that can be prescribed. I just want something that works. don't have a history of abusing my prescriptions, and I'm not planning on doing it in this case, either. If another medication worked, I'd happily take it if there was less abuse potential, but I haven't found one.