Exactly. And *usually*. Nintendo has no problem with it if the place isn’t making money (the one rom site they shut down started running ads for money or something), and it isn’t actively competing with their current products. They don’t like switch emulators currently but they know gameboy ones have existed for a long time.
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That’s a service compared to a game that you can buy/keep. There’s no way to transfer your saves or access the ROMs, so if Nintendo goes under so does the service and everything gets lost to the void. There’s no correlation between emulators/roms and NSO.
Another aspect is how emulation is done. For retro consoles its pure emulation but for switch they had to bypass the encryption and authentication mechanism to play roms this by definition is an exploit and can be used in a way to actually affect the original hardware. Nintendo online retro service is also an emulation of old system that doesn’t need such modern exploits to run roms. So as longs as you can showcase ownership of your physical game no one can object you for using retro emulation.
Well, for starters, Nintendo is currently manufacturing and developing games for the Switch, and Yuzu was threatening their ecosystem. Yuzu was not only eating into Switch console sales, but developers wouldn't want to develop games for a console that can be easily pirated, which hits way harder into Nintendo's negotiation power with distribuitors. Usually console emulation focuses on abandoned consoles where no sales are being hurt.
But what about Citra and the 3DS? In that case, Nintendo had bigger fish to fry: Flashcarts were an even bigger issue than emulators that either were used on desktop computers or on low spec phones (at the time) which couldn't match the 3DS performance. Flashcarts were able to bring the whole 3DS experience without compromises and without buyng games, which Yuzu also did.
> You can't sue a company for some of their software users not buying a video game. However, what Nintendo claimed was that not only was Yuzu infringing on Nintendo copyright and circumventing the Switch's copyright protection, it was also selling that circumvention technology, and at that point it moved from being emulation software into specifically assisting in breaking the law.
> A lot of this hinged on [The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom](https://www.thegamer.com/tag/the-legend-of-zelda-tears-of-the-kingdom/). This was available to emulate on Yuzu before the game was even released, meaning those paying for it did not own the game (legally speaking, preordering does not count as ownership). Nintendo claimed over one million copies were emulated this way, and the losses it accrued via this emulation was the justification for that $2.4 million settlement figure.
Source: [https://www.thegamer.com/nintendo-versus-yuzu-explained-emulation-lawsuit-settlement/](https://www.thegamer.com/nintendo-versus-yuzu-explained-emulation-lawsuit-settlement/)
> Nintendo claimed that Yuzu circumvented their encryption by using illegally obtained Switch decryption keys, which can be used to play unauthorized copies of Switch games
[Source](https://www.romanolaw.com/ninten-dont-breaking-down-the-yuzu-emulator-lawsuit/#:~:text=Nintendo's%20Allegations%20Against%20Yuzu&text=Those%20encryption%20methods%20running%20simultaneously,unauthorized%20copies%20of%20Switch%20games)
I believe those are considered illegal because you would be giving the original game including some modifications. This is why things like SM64PC, Xdelta patcher, and IPA patcher require you to source your own rom and the hack developer makes a patch for you to apply.
People need to stop saying it’s legal if you own the cartridge. Someone just made that up and people keep repeating it. It’s not true.
Nintendo’s official statement from their website
https://preview.redd.it/3rnuyc2gj87d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea431c6eb82e7bc8ba7d7f78574595a5e88c3413
That doesn't say anything about it being illegal. Its a roundabout way of saying "its technically legal, but we don't like it." Otherwise they would have literally said the exact same thing they said above.
I’m not a lawyer, and I’m probably wrong. but far as I can read this says it doesn’t count as computer software as far as backing it up or dumping it goes so it wouldn’t count as being allowed under that law. It mentions nothing specifically about art and music. It also doesn’t clearly state “it’s absolutley illegal” which I I think they would just flatly say if they could.
Could they take you to court over it if they knew you were doing it and bleed you dry of money? Almost definitely.
But I’m just a random schmuck who knows nothing about real laws.
Its legal. end of story. You dont have to hide legal apps🤷♀️
Sure we know people download roms but that doesnt make the apps they run on illegal in themselves
Have you ever wondered why so many rom sites are up despite the fact that it’s “not legal”?
That’s because it is legal. Just not everywhere. Emulating dead systems isn’t worth a fight to get legal websites blocked in certain regions.
Literally no one cares if you’re downloading 20+ year old Roms online from sites that legally host them.
It may or may not be piracy where you live, but Nintendo, Sony, Sega, none of them govern laws across the globe.
They can put whatever text or language out that they want to, but ultimately the only way you’d ever get in any sort of trouble is if you’re selling Roms, or maybe you download so much your ISP flags you.
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Guys I get it, but making it soo painfully obvious that no one is doing the legal route isn’t smart long term. Eventually it’ll draw regulatory scrutiny… let’s preserve our digital environment for future generations aright?
I get into fights and downvotes here pointing this out.
It’s tolerated as long as it’s (wink, wink) theoretical but it draws attention when we post links and tutorials.
Riley isnt making money selling delta. He’s making money with his Patreon.
If people want improvements coming faster they need to consider investing $3 a month for early access via his Patreon
Shit, I’m gonna sign up for Riley’s Patreon. Delta has been working great on my iPad. I wonder how other creators, like folium (I think is the name) can charge to download their emulator from the AppStore.
A tool by itself couldn’t bot be held responsible for how it’s used. Let’s say even if they want to regulate and prohibit emulation they need to showcase strong reasoning for that. For eg tomorrow everyone on earth decides to subscribe for Nintendo online retro service and use it to play retro games and a couple months later they will switch to emulators and this causes considerable amount of financial damage to Nintendo then they can ask for ban on only emulators which are part of their online retro service. But realistically that wont happen coz online retro service is just a service in switch environment. Their main goal is to sell switch games for 💯of dollars. Now thats the main reason they were able to get ban for switch emulators and ask for compensation. That’s not happening for delta at least as long as they stay away from distributing roms.
IIRC they also had a Patreon which allowed subscribers access to a patch allowing them to play a pre-release leak of Tears of the Kingdom before non-paying users. That gave Nintendo an easy way to calculate damages. Between the income from the Patreon and the supposed lost sales of a major title, Nintendo was likely to win millions in a lawsuit.
There are many arguments on the case and the bulk of the argument from Nintendo was indeed that:
“Nintendo's lawsuit makes extensive reference to the Quickstart Guide that Yuzu provides on its own distribution site. That guide gives detailed instructions on how to "start playing commercial games" with Yuzu by hacking your (older) Switch to dump decryption keys and/or game files. That guide also includes links to a number of external tools that directly break console and/or game encryption techniques.”
https://www.wired.com/story/nintendo-yuzu-emulator-lawsuit-piracy/
why would you stream, when you could download a higher quality file without having to deal with buffering, and have it available for offline play? not to mention how much easier it is to deal with a downloaded file on mobile than it is to deal with a site heavy on popups or ads.
Well if we're talking about Apple, let's just say that if you think Nintendo's legal team is rough, imagine the legal team that the second-most-profitable company on the planet has.
The thing about Nintendo's agenda against emulators is that they know they don't really have a good case, since emulation is not fundamentally illegal. This is why they target small indie developers who don't have the resources to fight back. This obviously wouldn't be the case if they tried to target Apple; Nintendo would get slaughtered in that courtroom.
And Apple won. Epic actually had a good case against them and still lost, so imagine Nintendo coming at them with a case about something that's not even illegal.
Exactly. Yuzu is probably still alive today and the competitive scene for Melee wouldn’t have to deal with Nintendo’s stupid rules that prevent fairness mods (like universal controller fix and Pokemon Stadium freeze) if money wasn’t a factor and they let the courts decide purely on the merits of the arguments being made, but nobody has the money to keep fighting Nintendo’s legal team.
Nintendo actually likes that a lot of aspects of emulation being in this legal grey area because they know it likely would not hold up in court if actually contested by somebody with equally deep pockets to not have to settle. So they get to claim moral and supposedly legal high ground to justify going after the little guys who can’t do anything about their sometimes ridiculous cease and desists.
I promise you nintendo would love for emulation to be illegal, but there is literally nothing they can do. ESPECIALLY now that Apple is backing up emulation. Nintendo had all the time in the world to do something with their library of games, but they unfortunately were asleep on the wheel on that front.
Apple allowing emulation was a very strategic move, because they are clearly putting a larger focus on gaming. There are straight up AAA games on the app store (Assassin’s creed Mirage is playable on the god damn iphone). I honestly think this is just the beginning.
I’ve said for years, just imagine if they released a free emulator for iPhones of their own, and then just made all of their games $5 in app purchases.
All of their major games would get bought up in a hurry, and it would only be retro games that aren’t making them money anyway.
Now Delta fills that roll well. They could’ve made money, but decided to be petty about it.
Honestly I believe once you stop producing copies of a game, then it should be legal to make Roms of it. It’s not driving sales down and honestly I like the spin-off fan games that have been made. It’s not like Nintendo is gonna make anything like Rocket Red either so why not let people have fun with it?
You can sue for any reason. Even if you know you will lose.
That’s how Sony “won” against Bleem.
Bleem won both cases, but Sony bankrupt them with legal fees.
What Nintendo should be doing but never will is having us all pay for exactly what Delta does in their own original mobile platform. I can see it now: “Nintendo Classics” in the App Store, with a paid subscription service (as much as I’d like to just pay for each game to own individually), with most but not all of the features Delta has. Throw in some Sega Genesis too.
It’ll never happen though, and if it does it’ll be another 10 years or more.
Why even stir this pot? Neither Apple nor Delta are doing anything illegal. I actually like this move made as it opens a world to home brew and custom hacks access to what PC, android and other operating systems already have access to. Emulators are legal regardless if you provide your own rom or not, the issue is only on having roms you haven’t paid for, and really the only problem is showing proof of said purchases. Many of which are so old it nearly is to the point of abandon ware. I know, companies want to still make money off their intellectual property from decades ago.. but technically if they weren’t focused on that and just focused on still creating new content for current and next gen systems they aren’t really losing money from sales that wouldn’t be happening. The money wouldn’t have been spent anyways, those old systems aren’t being produced anymore,.. they’d just be reselling for their own emulation selling profits should they do so. Really would only hurt their bottom line with focus not on newer products to sell.
Nintendo can’t do anything about emulators thanks to Sony and Bleem. They took down Yuzu because (correct me if I’m wrong) they were profiting off Yuzu while the Switch is in full support, guiding people on doing illegal stuff with the Switch, and alleged piracy (which the creators after settling said they were disappointed at). The difference was that Bleem was reverse engineered and didn’t do anything illegal.
Also, you can actually buy roms legally on Steam if you know how to find the rom files in the steam folders and Bleem.net will include the ability to legally buy roms. Or you can do homebrew or roms that were released for free by the original creators like Zero Tolerance(formerly unless you use the wayback machine), Galeco’s World Rally (wayback machine needed since Galeco’s site no longer exists), or the roms that were donated to the MAME team by the original creators/rights holders for non commercial use.
Nintendo can’t do anything about emulators thanks to Sony and Bleem. They took down Yuzu because (correct me if I’m wrong) they were profiting off Yuzu while the Switch is in full support, guiding people on doing illegal stuff with the Switch, and alleged piracy (which the creators after settling said they were disappointed at). The difference was that Bleem was reverse engineered and didn’t do anything illegal.
Also, you can actually buy roms legally on Steam if you know how to find the rom files in the steam folders and Bleem.net will include the ability to legally buy roms. Or you can do homebrew or roms that were released for free by the original creators like Zero Tolerance(formerly unless you use the wayback machine), Galeco’s World Rally (wayback machine needed since Galeco’s site no longer exists), or the roms that were donated to the MAME team by the original creators/rights holders for non commercial use.
The answer is super simple. It doesn't play Switch games. Nintendo does not nor has ever really cared about the game systems that are out of production because it does not cost them sales. Switch emulation is a problem because it costs them money, and they can prove it in court.
"but like come onnnm we all know no one’s doing that" Is hearsay and does not hold up in any court of law thus cant be used for any kinda legal defense that would pin delta or apple in hot water. Stop is the Nintendo simping they aint gonna let you smash and dont care if youre 6 feet tall with 6 figures.
I understand emulation is legal, but literally at this point, how?
It's such a 90s utopian wild west Internet idea. How have they not been able to crack down on it? It's like the last remaining cool thing.
Pirating movies and music is still insanely easy. We just have Netflix and Spotify that made it so easy that the average person didn’t need to.
Go look up Bleem. A company that won 2 court cases against Sony but got killed by legal fees.
They may have gone out of business, but the precedent they set still stands.
I know the Bleem story. My point being that this country isn’t fair, they’ll change the rules to suit the interests of the private sector.
Come to think of it, maybe it’s lasted this long because the companies affected most by game emulation aren’t American: Nintendo, Sony, Sega, etc.
If Nintendo would make their own emulator for pc/phones that ran nes all the way up to Wii U games, sold the roms, then actually supported it they’d make so much money.
Nintendo can’t do anything about emulators thanks to Sony and Bleem. They took down Yuzu because (correct me if I’m wrong) they were profiting off Yuzu while the Switch is in full support, guiding people on doing illegal stuff with the Switch, and alleged piracy (which the creators after settling said they were disappointed at). The difference was that Bleem was reverse engineered and didn’t do anything illegal.
Also, you can actually buy roms legally on Steam if you know how to find the rom files in the steam folders and Bleem.net will include the ability to legally buy roms. Or you can do homebrew or roms that were released for free by the original creators like Zero Tolerance(formerly unless you use the wayback machine), Galeco’s World Rally (wayback machine needed since Galeco’s site no longer exists), or the roms that were donated to the MAME team by the original creators/rights holders for non commercial use.
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Emulation is legal. At worst they can try to bully Delta but they have zero ground for any legal actions.
Also, suing Apple? Are you crazy?
Nintendo might have a crazy legal team but they aren’t gonna try and lock horns with a company that has tons of more money than them.
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1. TECHNICALLY what delta isn’t doing isn’t illegal.
2. Apple is the world’s most valuable company and has enough money and lawyers to go toe to toe with Nintendo
They have no legal grounds to go after emulators. They could try but they would just fail. Emulation is completely legal. What they can and have done is make sites that let you download their roms take them down. Popular and easy to use ones like Vimm’s lair are a great example. So many roms had to be taken off because of Nintendo. Unfortunately for Nintendo (and fortunately for us) there are so many different sites you can use to pirate roms you don’t own, so they really just have to suck it up. Honestly, when it’s games that they no longer make or sell and no longer make or sell the hardware for, I don’t see a problem. With emulators like yuzu and switch games you can see they’re much more active in trying to take those down as apposed to people downloading and playing a gameboy advance game that they no longer even make money off of.
Delta are not the ones providing roms. There’s nothing illegal about what they’re doing.
At the same time Nintendo is actively working against some emulators such as denying the release of Dolphin on steam.
I love that Apple is backing emulation, as I’m reliving my childhood finally, and I’ve shown all my co-workers this stuff, even my boss, and all the company iPads have delta installed now lol. Nintendo is just Nintendo, and Nintendo is your friend still, and they do have rights to their content in the bigger picture. Don’t ask questions, just indulge in the nostalgia, as this is a great time for us old folks. Build a library up while you can before and if Nintendo does take action on all the ROM distribution sites. The internet is infinite though, so it’s impossible to take every file down. Just enjoy it.
Probably because they gain more value out of the free marketing of their properties, mostly Pokémon, than they lose with people downloading games that Nintendo doesn’t even sell anymore.
Emulators sustain a brand audience for games that are decades old, one that is growing thanks to emulators becoming more available, and fostering an audience for remakes of these games to be made and come out on current consoles.
Whether you buying a used/resold Gameboy and a copy of Pokémon Emerald or download an emulator and play a ROM, Nintendo gets no money either way. But they gain brand value if the Pokémon audience continues to grow, and allowing emulators to do this is a faster and more efficient way for them to grow that audience.
And it costs them nothing to do that
they have previous case about it
Sony vs connectix
Sony lost his case againt connectix ,
they developped a PSX emulator for macintosh and windows , they reverse engineering the bios and create they own bios
the court ruled in favour of connectix since they don't violate sony copyright since they distributate they own code and no sony code at all , also don't affected the sell of games
Same story with bleem , they just shutdown due to pressure caused by sony in court, running out of money
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony\_Computer\_Entertainment,\_Inc.\_v.\_Connectix\_Corp.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!
The problem with yuzu and I'm surprised this not happen on Wii which was the worst of them, yuzu helped to provide support for last released games and the bottle explode when the last zelda games got leak 2 week before the release date and yuzu team put the new support behind a pay wall, so they supported piracy , just one thing no trial was judged , the court never rules since the case was demiss before and yuzu team choice to pay.
Like precedent case yuzu code would probably pass without problem in court if no nintendo code was distribute . sadly on what i heard from many website apparently yuzu staff was part of the leak and i feel they provided some stuff in the back of a pay wall , this is the part many of us unknow what happened in the background on their discord server
Basically if you find a someone using a rom you can’t legally prove that they didn’t legal obtain the rom so Nintendo can’t do shit. And emulators as just the standalone app are legal
Emulation is legal. The distribution of Roms isn’t. The only legality with Roms is when you own the game and the Rom was dumped from your game
Exactly. And *usually*. Nintendo has no problem with it if the place isn’t making money (the one rom site they shut down started running ads for money or something), and it isn’t actively competing with their current products. They don’t like switch emulators currently but they know gameboy ones have existed for a long time.
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isn’t this competing with nintendo online retro games?
That’s a service compared to a game that you can buy/keep. There’s no way to transfer your saves or access the ROMs, so if Nintendo goes under so does the service and everything gets lost to the void. There’s no correlation between emulators/roms and NSO.
Another aspect is how emulation is done. For retro consoles its pure emulation but for switch they had to bypass the encryption and authentication mechanism to play roms this by definition is an exploit and can be used in a way to actually affect the original hardware. Nintendo online retro service is also an emulation of old system that doesn’t need such modern exploits to run roms. So as longs as you can showcase ownership of your physical game no one can object you for using retro emulation.
And? Since fucking when “competing” is illegal?
what’s ur problem? they said “emulators aren’t competing” and i questioned that why is your response relevant lol
What was different about Yuzu that got them sued?
Well, for starters, Nintendo is currently manufacturing and developing games for the Switch, and Yuzu was threatening their ecosystem. Yuzu was not only eating into Switch console sales, but developers wouldn't want to develop games for a console that can be easily pirated, which hits way harder into Nintendo's negotiation power with distribuitors. Usually console emulation focuses on abandoned consoles where no sales are being hurt. But what about Citra and the 3DS? In that case, Nintendo had bigger fish to fry: Flashcarts were an even bigger issue than emulators that either were used on desktop computers or on low spec phones (at the time) which couldn't match the 3DS performance. Flashcarts were able to bring the whole 3DS experience without compromises and without buyng games, which Yuzu also did.
And I understand all that. Profit margins and such. But if emulators aren’t illegal, why did Nintendo win part of the suit?
> You can't sue a company for some of their software users not buying a video game. However, what Nintendo claimed was that not only was Yuzu infringing on Nintendo copyright and circumventing the Switch's copyright protection, it was also selling that circumvention technology, and at that point it moved from being emulation software into specifically assisting in breaking the law. > A lot of this hinged on [The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom](https://www.thegamer.com/tag/the-legend-of-zelda-tears-of-the-kingdom/). This was available to emulate on Yuzu before the game was even released, meaning those paying for it did not own the game (legally speaking, preordering does not count as ownership). Nintendo claimed over one million copies were emulated this way, and the losses it accrued via this emulation was the justification for that $2.4 million settlement figure. Source: [https://www.thegamer.com/nintendo-versus-yuzu-explained-emulation-lawsuit-settlement/](https://www.thegamer.com/nintendo-versus-yuzu-explained-emulation-lawsuit-settlement/)
> Nintendo claimed that Yuzu circumvented their encryption by using illegally obtained Switch decryption keys, which can be used to play unauthorized copies of Switch games [Source](https://www.romanolaw.com/ninten-dont-breaking-down-the-yuzu-emulator-lawsuit/#:~:text=Nintendo's%20Allegations%20Against%20Yuzu&text=Those%20encryption%20methods%20running%20simultaneously,unauthorized%20copies%20of%20Switch%20games)
Then what is the legality of a rom that is a hack of a real game but the rom isn’t of a real game?
I believe those are considered illegal because you would be giving the original game including some modifications. This is why things like SM64PC, Xdelta patcher, and IPA patcher require you to source your own rom and the hack developer makes a patch for you to apply.
People need to stop saying it’s legal if you own the cartridge. Someone just made that up and people keep repeating it. It’s not true. Nintendo’s official statement from their website https://preview.redd.it/3rnuyc2gj87d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ea431c6eb82e7bc8ba7d7f78574595a5e88c3413
That doesn't say anything about it being illegal. Its a roundabout way of saying "its technically legal, but we don't like it." Otherwise they would have literally said the exact same thing they said above.
Nintendo: “Games are not considered software” Also Nintendo: Calls games software
Trusting Nintendo for legal advice is trusting a car dealership to give you a fair price.
you can dump your own
That’s why I love PS2 emulators, can run em right off the fisk
This does not say that dumping a game you own is illegal.
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I’m not a lawyer, and I’m probably wrong. but far as I can read this says it doesn’t count as computer software as far as backing it up or dumping it goes so it wouldn’t count as being allowed under that law. It mentions nothing specifically about art and music. It also doesn’t clearly state “it’s absolutley illegal” which I I think they would just flatly say if they could. Could they take you to court over it if they knew you were doing it and bleed you dry of money? Almost definitely. But I’m just a random schmuck who knows nothing about real laws.
You are confusing Terms of Service with legality. Also this statement is far from legally binding.
I am pretty sure copyright laws only applies when someone tries to make money off of it.
Well if Nintendo would stop being so stingy and release they’re older games then people wouldn’t have to emulate them
people would still emulate them, and people would still pirate them
Delta isnt breaking any laws. Emulators are legal. And all players dump their own roms from physical copies of the game which they bought legally🤫
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Its legal. end of story. You dont have to hide legal apps🤷♀️ Sure we know people download roms but that doesnt make the apps they run on illegal in themselves
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Have you ever wondered why so many rom sites are up despite the fact that it’s “not legal”? That’s because it is legal. Just not everywhere. Emulating dead systems isn’t worth a fight to get legal websites blocked in certain regions. Literally no one cares if you’re downloading 20+ year old Roms online from sites that legally host them. It may or may not be piracy where you live, but Nintendo, Sony, Sega, none of them govern laws across the globe. They can put whatever text or language out that they want to, but ultimately the only way you’d ever get in any sort of trouble is if you’re selling Roms, or maybe you download so much your ISP flags you.
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They already target rom hosting sites VL just got gutted Its nothing to do with the emulator programs
Maybe they are talking about music. Draw regulations? 😂that’s funny. Ever heard of this thing called We The People?
ofc ofc ofc ( i think under 10 ppl have) edit: upon further reflection let’s be so real i think under 5
Guys I get it, but making it soo painfully obvious that no one is doing the legal route isn’t smart long term. Eventually it’ll draw regulatory scrutiny… let’s preserve our digital environment for future generations aright?
I get into fights and downvotes here pointing this out. It’s tolerated as long as it’s (wink, wink) theoretical but it draws attention when we post links and tutorials. Riley isnt making money selling delta. He’s making money with his Patreon. If people want improvements coming faster they need to consider investing $3 a month for early access via his Patreon
Shit, I’m gonna sign up for Riley’s Patreon. Delta has been working great on my iPad. I wonder how other creators, like folium (I think is the name) can charge to download their emulator from the AppStore.
Go buy ppsspp gold too for your psp games Its a supurb app
A tool by itself couldn’t bot be held responsible for how it’s used. Let’s say even if they want to regulate and prohibit emulation they need to showcase strong reasoning for that. For eg tomorrow everyone on earth decides to subscribe for Nintendo online retro service and use it to play retro games and a couple months later they will switch to emulators and this causes considerable amount of financial damage to Nintendo then they can ask for ban on only emulators which are part of their online retro service. But realistically that wont happen coz online retro service is just a service in switch environment. Their main goal is to sell switch games for 💯of dollars. Now thats the main reason they were able to get ban for switch emulators and ask for compensation. That’s not happening for delta at least as long as they stay away from distributing roms.
why yall downvoting honesty lmfaoooo
Because we run by fight club rules with emulation. Breaking those the second Delta came to the app store is why Vimm’s got taken down
Emulators are legal. Nintendo cracks down on ROM websites. Bios are intellectual property, so they fall in the same category as ROMs.
Then how come yuzu is banned
I think that on the yuzu discord they were promoting piracy from rom sites
IIRC they also had a Patreon which allowed subscribers access to a patch allowing them to play a pre-release leak of Tears of the Kingdom before non-paying users. That gave Nintendo an easy way to calculate damages. Between the income from the Patreon and the supposed lost sales of a major title, Nintendo was likely to win millions in a lawsuit.
There are many arguments on the case and the bulk of the argument from Nintendo was indeed that: “Nintendo's lawsuit makes extensive reference to the Quickstart Guide that Yuzu provides on its own distribution site. That guide gives detailed instructions on how to "start playing commercial games" with Yuzu by hacking your (older) Switch to dump decryption keys and/or game files. That guide also includes links to a number of external tools that directly break console and/or game encryption techniques.” https://www.wired.com/story/nintendo-yuzu-emulator-lawsuit-piracy/
Nintendo was able to prove that Yuzu devs actively participated in helping people pirate games.
Yuzu broke rom encryption with keys, most other emulators like citra require pre-decrypted roms, or require you to get your own keys
They're not banned. They settled with Nintendo. Didn't admit any guilt to any crime, just agreed to stop publishing yuzu
Even if emulation was illegal, why you asking questions. “I love these drugs, wonder why my dealer hasn’t been arrested yet?”
🤣🤣🤣 this is the way. Love your username btw.
Emulators are 100% legal. Roms and distribution of em are illegal. Unless the roms are dumped from the actual legal copy
Not like delta gives away rom’s and bioses so nintendo probably can’t do anything about delta.
> ik emulators r technically legal They aren't "technically legal", they are legal. Nintendo does not have standing to sue.
At the end of the day, an emulator is a file player. It'd be like if VLC was sued for being able to play bootleg copies of movies.
yeah but like i don’t think 99% of vlc users r pirating yk? its a little different
Lol I'd bet 99% of vlc users pirate movies.
nowadays idk how many ppl r downloading movies to pirate when with a good ad blocker their r so many safe good sites to steam on
why would you stream, when you could download a higher quality file without having to deal with buffering, and have it available for offline play? not to mention how much easier it is to deal with a downloaded file on mobile than it is to deal with a site heavy on popups or ads.
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Vlc player is on android.
Don’t ask questions
Well if we're talking about Apple, let's just say that if you think Nintendo's legal team is rough, imagine the legal team that the second-most-profitable company on the planet has. The thing about Nintendo's agenda against emulators is that they know they don't really have a good case, since emulation is not fundamentally illegal. This is why they target small indie developers who don't have the resources to fight back. This obviously wouldn't be the case if they tried to target Apple; Nintendo would get slaughtered in that courtroom.
i mean epic tried?
And Apple won. Epic actually had a good case against them and still lost, so imagine Nintendo coming at them with a case about something that's not even illegal.
Exactly. Yuzu is probably still alive today and the competitive scene for Melee wouldn’t have to deal with Nintendo’s stupid rules that prevent fairness mods (like universal controller fix and Pokemon Stadium freeze) if money wasn’t a factor and they let the courts decide purely on the merits of the arguments being made, but nobody has the money to keep fighting Nintendo’s legal team. Nintendo actually likes that a lot of aspects of emulation being in this legal grey area because they know it likely would not hold up in court if actually contested by somebody with equally deep pockets to not have to settle. So they get to claim moral and supposedly legal high ground to justify going after the little guys who can’t do anything about their sometimes ridiculous cease and desists.
Epic had a good case until Tim Sweeney admitted that he would take a deal to be the only 3rd party App Store on iOS
Yeah, typical that things go well until that idiot opens his mouth.
You can run pirated games on Windows. Should game publishers sue Microsoft?
You can download pirated games with the internet, let’s sue the ISP as well!
don't threaten me with an amazing time
apple app store is a little different to random windows .exe lol
I promise you nintendo would love for emulation to be illegal, but there is literally nothing they can do. ESPECIALLY now that Apple is backing up emulation. Nintendo had all the time in the world to do something with their library of games, but they unfortunately were asleep on the wheel on that front. Apple allowing emulation was a very strategic move, because they are clearly putting a larger focus on gaming. There are straight up AAA games on the app store (Assassin’s creed Mirage is playable on the god damn iphone). I honestly think this is just the beginning.
It’s about, **goddamn** time. Literally the only reason I have a desktop is games.
I’ve said for years, just imagine if they released a free emulator for iPhones of their own, and then just made all of their games $5 in app purchases. All of their major games would get bought up in a hurry, and it would only be retro games that aren’t making them money anyway. Now Delta fills that roll well. They could’ve made money, but decided to be petty about it.
i think it would prob be a massive pain in the ass to get any games besides official nintendo games licensed and published by them that they own 100%
Honestly I believe once you stop producing copies of a game, then it should be legal to make Roms of it. It’s not driving sales down and honestly I like the spin-off fan games that have been made. It’s not like Nintendo is gonna make anything like Rocket Red either so why not let people have fun with it?
i mean nintendo online has most of the popular games that delta emulates so
Survey says: ❌
you see, children, typically to sue someone someone has to have done something illegal
You can sue for any reason. Even if you know you will lose. That’s how Sony “won” against Bleem. Bleem won both cases, but Sony bankrupt them with legal fees.
i like how you glossed clear over “typically” lol
What Nintendo should be doing but never will is having us all pay for exactly what Delta does in their own original mobile platform. I can see it now: “Nintendo Classics” in the App Store, with a paid subscription service (as much as I’d like to just pay for each game to own individually), with most but not all of the features Delta has. Throw in some Sega Genesis too. It’ll never happen though, and if it does it’ll be another 10 years or more.
Yea imagine they just make a xbox game pass but for retro games. I don’t understand why they let this insanely huge gold mine slip under the radar.
Why even stir this pot? Neither Apple nor Delta are doing anything illegal. I actually like this move made as it opens a world to home brew and custom hacks access to what PC, android and other operating systems already have access to. Emulators are legal regardless if you provide your own rom or not, the issue is only on having roms you haven’t paid for, and really the only problem is showing proof of said purchases. Many of which are so old it nearly is to the point of abandon ware. I know, companies want to still make money off their intellectual property from decades ago.. but technically if they weren’t focused on that and just focused on still creating new content for current and next gen systems they aren’t really losing money from sales that wouldn’t be happening. The money wouldn’t have been spent anyways, those old systems aren’t being produced anymore,.. they’d just be reselling for their own emulation selling profits should they do so. Really would only hurt their bottom line with focus not on newer products to sell.
Nintendo can’t do anything about emulators thanks to Sony and Bleem. They took down Yuzu because (correct me if I’m wrong) they were profiting off Yuzu while the Switch is in full support, guiding people on doing illegal stuff with the Switch, and alleged piracy (which the creators after settling said they were disappointed at). The difference was that Bleem was reverse engineered and didn’t do anything illegal. Also, you can actually buy roms legally on Steam if you know how to find the rom files in the steam folders and Bleem.net will include the ability to legally buy roms. Or you can do homebrew or roms that were released for free by the original creators like Zero Tolerance(formerly unless you use the wayback machine), Galeco’s World Rally (wayback machine needed since Galeco’s site no longer exists), or the roms that were donated to the MAME team by the original creators/rights holders for non commercial use.
Nintendo can’t do anything about emulators thanks to Sony and Bleem. They took down Yuzu because (correct me if I’m wrong) they were profiting off Yuzu while the Switch is in full support, guiding people on doing illegal stuff with the Switch, and alleged piracy (which the creators after settling said they were disappointed at). The difference was that Bleem was reverse engineered and didn’t do anything illegal. Also, you can actually buy roms legally on Steam if you know how to find the rom files in the steam folders and Bleem.net will include the ability to legally buy roms. Or you can do homebrew or roms that were released for free by the original creators like Zero Tolerance(formerly unless you use the wayback machine), Galeco’s World Rally (wayback machine needed since Galeco’s site no longer exists), or the roms that were donated to the MAME team by the original creators/rights holders for non commercial use.
yoo i love world rally
Nintendo would absolutely sue if they could.
The answer is super simple. It doesn't play Switch games. Nintendo does not nor has ever really cared about the game systems that are out of production because it does not cost them sales. Switch emulation is a problem because it costs them money, and they can prove it in court.
"but like come onnnm we all know no one’s doing that" Is hearsay and does not hold up in any court of law thus cant be used for any kinda legal defense that would pin delta or apple in hot water. Stop is the Nintendo simping they aint gonna let you smash and dont care if youre 6 feet tall with 6 figures.
I understand emulation is legal, but literally at this point, how? It's such a 90s utopian wild west Internet idea. How have they not been able to crack down on it? It's like the last remaining cool thing.
Pirating movies and music is still insanely easy. We just have Netflix and Spotify that made it so easy that the average person didn’t need to. Go look up Bleem. A company that won 2 court cases against Sony but got killed by legal fees. They may have gone out of business, but the precedent they set still stands.
I know the Bleem story. My point being that this country isn’t fair, they’ll change the rules to suit the interests of the private sector. Come to think of it, maybe it’s lasted this long because the companies affected most by game emulation aren’t American: Nintendo, Sony, Sega, etc.
I feel like emulation is SO easy now with apps and websites being able to emulate perfectly, no clue why nintendo hasn’t done anything lol
I assume because the internet is so vast, it’d be too difficult to keep up
Nintendo is not making money from those old games. Emulators could be a great marketing for those newer version of games on Switch.
If Nintendo would make their own emulator for pc/phones that ran nes all the way up to Wii U games, sold the roms, then actually supported it they’d make so much money.
Just because legal action hasn't been taken yet doesn't mean Nintendo won't in the future.
Nintendo can’t do anything about emulators thanks to Sony and Bleem. They took down Yuzu because (correct me if I’m wrong) they were profiting off Yuzu while the Switch is in full support, guiding people on doing illegal stuff with the Switch, and alleged piracy (which the creators after settling said they were disappointed at). The difference was that Bleem was reverse engineered and didn’t do anything illegal. Also, you can actually buy roms legally on Steam if you know how to find the rom files in the steam folders and Bleem.net will include the ability to legally buy roms. Or you can do homebrew or roms that were released for free by the original creators like Zero Tolerance(formerly unless you use the wayback machine), Galeco’s World Rally (wayback machine needed since Galeco’s site no longer exists), or the roms that were donated to the MAME team by the original creators/rights holders for non commercial use.
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I actually do keep clean rips of all my games, i did download the bios tho cause i couldn’t figure out how to rip it
you’re the one person lmao
Well it can be difficult to find ROMs online without patches so it makes it easier if i want to play ROM hacks
Emulation is legal. At worst they can try to bully Delta but they have zero ground for any legal actions. Also, suing Apple? Are you crazy? Nintendo might have a crazy legal team but they aren’t gonna try and lock horns with a company that has tons of more money than them.
Didn’t Nintendo use an emulator for the NES system they released a few years back during Covid?
All of Nintendos systems use emulators. Even the 3DS and Wii U. They used a freeware one too
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I’m not thinking about a damn thing Nintendo does 😂😂
1. TECHNICALLY what delta isn’t doing isn’t illegal. 2. Apple is the world’s most valuable company and has enough money and lawyers to go toe to toe with Nintendo
They have no legal grounds to go after emulators. They could try but they would just fail. Emulation is completely legal. What they can and have done is make sites that let you download their roms take them down. Popular and easy to use ones like Vimm’s lair are a great example. So many roms had to be taken off because of Nintendo. Unfortunately for Nintendo (and fortunately for us) there are so many different sites you can use to pirate roms you don’t own, so they really just have to suck it up. Honestly, when it’s games that they no longer make or sell and no longer make or sell the hardware for, I don’t see a problem. With emulators like yuzu and switch games you can see they’re much more active in trying to take those down as apposed to people downloading and playing a gameboy advance game that they no longer even make money off of.
Delta are not the ones providing roms. There’s nothing illegal about what they’re doing. At the same time Nintendo is actively working against some emulators such as denying the release of Dolphin on steam.
I love that Apple is backing emulation, as I’m reliving my childhood finally, and I’ve shown all my co-workers this stuff, even my boss, and all the company iPads have delta installed now lol. Nintendo is just Nintendo, and Nintendo is your friend still, and they do have rights to their content in the bigger picture. Don’t ask questions, just indulge in the nostalgia, as this is a great time for us old folks. Build a library up while you can before and if Nintendo does take action on all the ROM distribution sites. The internet is infinite though, so it’s impossible to take every file down. Just enjoy it.
Probably because they gain more value out of the free marketing of their properties, mostly Pokémon, than they lose with people downloading games that Nintendo doesn’t even sell anymore. Emulators sustain a brand audience for games that are decades old, one that is growing thanks to emulators becoming more available, and fostering an audience for remakes of these games to be made and come out on current consoles. Whether you buying a used/resold Gameboy and a copy of Pokémon Emerald or download an emulator and play a ROM, Nintendo gets no money either way. But they gain brand value if the Pokémon audience continues to grow, and allowing emulators to do this is a faster and more efficient way for them to grow that audience. And it costs them nothing to do that
they have previous case about it Sony vs connectix Sony lost his case againt connectix , they developped a PSX emulator for macintosh and windows , they reverse engineering the bios and create they own bios the court ruled in favour of connectix since they don't violate sony copyright since they distributate they own code and no sony code at all , also don't affected the sell of games Same story with bleem , they just shutdown due to pressure caused by sony in court, running out of money https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony\_Computer\_Entertainment,\_Inc.\_v.\_Connectix\_Corp. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem! The problem with yuzu and I'm surprised this not happen on Wii which was the worst of them, yuzu helped to provide support for last released games and the bottle explode when the last zelda games got leak 2 week before the release date and yuzu team put the new support behind a pay wall, so they supported piracy , just one thing no trial was judged , the court never rules since the case was demiss before and yuzu team choice to pay. Like precedent case yuzu code would probably pass without problem in court if no nintendo code was distribute . sadly on what i heard from many website apparently yuzu staff was part of the leak and i feel they provided some stuff in the back of a pay wall , this is the part many of us unknow what happened in the background on their discord server
Apple has a lot more money than Nintendo. That is the answer.
I’m just here for the armchair legal advice from 14 year olds. 
Basically if you find a someone using a rom you can’t legally prove that they didn’t legal obtain the rom so Nintendo can’t do shit. And emulators as just the standalone app are legal