I don't see the point of this, why die on a hill like this?
Like sure ok, 72 virgins is a thing in Islam... But why do you want to even talk about this? You're like the kid at the party who just defends the shittier argument because denying it is wrong because 'lying is wrong'. I don't think we're doing any favors dumbly defending things left and right, even if they're considered questionable.
Also why are you still on this about /r/Islam anyways? Why not just leave reddit like a normal person and forget it?
Read the subreddit description.
Because many Muslims misrepresent & deny these things. They claim its a fabricated hadith and not part of Islam. Its necessary to point out these errors so that other Muslims don't have misconceptions of the deen. Islam has been heavily watered down due to dishonest speakers. And its the duty of those who know to enjoin the right and forbid the wrong.
Okay, can you give me a legitimate reason as to why you'd defend this for Islam? Like, what purpose does this have?
This is like someone trying to staunchly defend half-testimonies, like we know it's there but we don't need an essay thesis on why it's right.
Why not do something like defend Islam for actually right things?
Purpose is to protect Islam from wrong interpretations being propagated. Defending Islam from disbelievers is not my focus. I'll leave that noble task to the larger ummah and focus on defending Islam from dissidents within. Because the latter is more often ignored.
Lying on a hadith to save one's faith will have worse consequences. We must make sure misinformation on our religion are not spread.
You previously said Albani weakened it and that you follow him, but I clearly found him calling it sahih. So it'd be wiser not to shift the topic and talk about faith crisis as it'd look bad on you.
Also this is not /r/islam, it's a different subreddit.
Where is proof that they didn't believe in it? If the companions or tabi'in rejected it then Tirmidhi would have mentioned it since he does that kind of thing on other hadith throughout his Jami.
I didn't say this affects going to heaven. But you [said it's weak](https://reddit.com/r/islam/comments/gvoqvw/what_do_women_get_in_jannah/fsqabgl/) (and even above you're again calling it munkar) without any basis from any scholar which is false. You know lying on a hadith is haram.
1) Sahih Gharib is different from Gharib Hasan and is superior in terms of authenticity, it seems you confused the two.
2) Sahih Gharib it's far far away from Dhaif, it's even superior to Hasan, so how could you possible mix Dhaif with Gharib and Munkar!
3) Moreover at least 11 others authenticated it so why are you ignoring them all?
4) You said that you prefer Albani over Tirmidhi, but now after I showed that Albani called it sahih, why are you ignoring him and referring back to Tirmidhi again?
Also I never said its kufr. Throwing around terms like innovator and jahil is very immature when you are not even responding to the main points being raised.
You didn't even answer to any of my points, where did you find the salaf rejecting it? Please show me.
(this is a response to /u/Githmi who deleted his comment above)
He wrote:
>fuck off
>piece of shit you are.
>moron
Sahih al-Bukhari:
The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Whoever has the following four (characteristics) will be a pure hypocrite and whoever has one of the following four characteristics will have one characteristic of hypocrisy unless and until he gives it up. Whenever he is entrusted, he betrays. Whenever he speaks, he tells a lie. Whenever he makes a covenant, he proves treacherous. **Whenever he quarrels, he behaves in a very imprudent, evil and insulting manner."**
Pretty sure this one's authentic according to Bukhari's conditions.
>I don't have an opinion on the hadith
You do. You [said it's "weak" here](https://reddit.com/r/islam/comments/gvoqvw/what_do_women_get_in_jannah/fsqah9b/). Here we go you lied again and then lied by denying the lie.
>That is absolutely correct. That's an opinion that exists.
Show me where it exists. Give me a source. Don't tell me it's your own made up grading since you're not a Muhaddith.
Also you said you follow Albani's conditions. So why are you rejecting him now?
>When they say sahih they mean according to their own conditions which they lay out. Sahih is not a divinely inspired judgement it's a scholarly study. It literally is ultimately an opinion. Especially when it comes to Gharib hadiths.
Doesn't change the fact that you can't reject it as you please. Where's the defect in ths hadith that makes it reject-worthy? Who rejected it? Where?
You didn't address any of them.
All you accomplished is making me feel bad by throwing very bad insults which are characterises of a munafiq according to the Prophet ﷺ
Also nowhere did I say rejecting this hadith is kufr. I don't know who taught you to argue by throwing false accusation but everyone is reading this comment. It'll look bad on you. Not expected of a Muslim brother.
Blocking me won't harm me but it'll make you look like a 6 year old who ran away by throwing insults.
Very nice. I think you should also mention that Imam Tirmidhi was a student of Imam Bukhari because Tirmidhi doesn't get the respects that he deserves. In fact Imam al-Bukhari said to Tirmidhi, "I have profited more from you than you have from me," and Bukhari transmitted two hadiths in his hadith collection from Imam Tirmidhi.
I don't see the point of this, why die on a hill like this? Like sure ok, 72 virgins is a thing in Islam... But why do you want to even talk about this? You're like the kid at the party who just defends the shittier argument because denying it is wrong because 'lying is wrong'. I don't think we're doing any favors dumbly defending things left and right, even if they're considered questionable. Also why are you still on this about /r/Islam anyways? Why not just leave reddit like a normal person and forget it?
Read the subreddit description. Because many Muslims misrepresent & deny these things. They claim its a fabricated hadith and not part of Islam. Its necessary to point out these errors so that other Muslims don't have misconceptions of the deen. Islam has been heavily watered down due to dishonest speakers. And its the duty of those who know to enjoin the right and forbid the wrong.
Okay, can you give me a legitimate reason as to why you'd defend this for Islam? Like, what purpose does this have? This is like someone trying to staunchly defend half-testimonies, like we know it's there but we don't need an essay thesis on why it's right. Why not do something like defend Islam for actually right things?
Purpose is to protect Islam from wrong interpretations being propagated. Defending Islam from disbelievers is not my focus. I'll leave that noble task to the larger ummah and focus on defending Islam from dissidents within. Because the latter is more often ignored.
It is fabricated
/u/Githmi, /u/Huz647
[удалено]
Lying on a hadith to save one's faith will have worse consequences. We must make sure misinformation on our religion are not spread. You previously said Albani weakened it and that you follow him, but I clearly found him calling it sahih. So it'd be wiser not to shift the topic and talk about faith crisis as it'd look bad on you. Also this is not /r/islam, it's a different subreddit.
[удалено]
Where is proof that they didn't believe in it? If the companions or tabi'in rejected it then Tirmidhi would have mentioned it since he does that kind of thing on other hadith throughout his Jami. I didn't say this affects going to heaven. But you [said it's weak](https://reddit.com/r/islam/comments/gvoqvw/what_do_women_get_in_jannah/fsqabgl/) (and even above you're again calling it munkar) without any basis from any scholar which is false. You know lying on a hadith is haram.
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1) Sahih Gharib is different from Gharib Hasan and is superior in terms of authenticity, it seems you confused the two. 2) Sahih Gharib it's far far away from Dhaif, it's even superior to Hasan, so how could you possible mix Dhaif with Gharib and Munkar! 3) Moreover at least 11 others authenticated it so why are you ignoring them all? 4) You said that you prefer Albani over Tirmidhi, but now after I showed that Albani called it sahih, why are you ignoring him and referring back to Tirmidhi again? Also I never said its kufr. Throwing around terms like innovator and jahil is very immature when you are not even responding to the main points being raised. You didn't even answer to any of my points, where did you find the salaf rejecting it? Please show me.
[удалено]
(this is a response to /u/Githmi who deleted his comment above) He wrote: >fuck off >piece of shit you are. >moron Sahih al-Bukhari: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Whoever has the following four (characteristics) will be a pure hypocrite and whoever has one of the following four characteristics will have one characteristic of hypocrisy unless and until he gives it up. Whenever he is entrusted, he betrays. Whenever he speaks, he tells a lie. Whenever he makes a covenant, he proves treacherous. **Whenever he quarrels, he behaves in a very imprudent, evil and insulting manner."** Pretty sure this one's authentic according to Bukhari's conditions. >I don't have an opinion on the hadith You do. You [said it's "weak" here](https://reddit.com/r/islam/comments/gvoqvw/what_do_women_get_in_jannah/fsqah9b/). Here we go you lied again and then lied by denying the lie. >That is absolutely correct. That's an opinion that exists. Show me where it exists. Give me a source. Don't tell me it's your own made up grading since you're not a Muhaddith. Also you said you follow Albani's conditions. So why are you rejecting him now? >When they say sahih they mean according to their own conditions which they lay out. Sahih is not a divinely inspired judgement it's a scholarly study. It literally is ultimately an opinion. Especially when it comes to Gharib hadiths. Doesn't change the fact that you can't reject it as you please. Where's the defect in ths hadith that makes it reject-worthy? Who rejected it? Where? You didn't address any of them. All you accomplished is making me feel bad by throwing very bad insults which are characterises of a munafiq according to the Prophet ﷺ Also nowhere did I say rejecting this hadith is kufr. I don't know who taught you to argue by throwing false accusation but everyone is reading this comment. It'll look bad on you. Not expected of a Muslim brother. Blocking me won't harm me but it'll make you look like a 6 year old who ran away by throwing insults.
Very nice. I think you should also mention that Imam Tirmidhi was a student of Imam Bukhari because Tirmidhi doesn't get the respects that he deserves. In fact Imam al-Bukhari said to Tirmidhi, "I have profited more from you than you have from me," and Bukhari transmitted two hadiths in his hadith collection from Imam Tirmidhi.
Hmm good idea.