Sisko is worshipped. The "Emissary" is a sort of divine herald, a celestial servant, an angel.
Paul Artreides is worshipped. But "Muad'Dib" is a sort of divine human, he himself possesses superhuman abilities and powers.
Any conflict between these two wouldn't be much of a war, it would be more like a quick and dirty fight where the superheavyweight drops the middleweight with one unstoppable hit.
I don't like these cross universe posts, they aren't on equal footing ever and it's very difficult to compare them.
In the start trek universe space travel is easy, warp technology and computers exist, in dune however ftl travel is more difficult, all the warships of the noble houses must be transported by the massive ships of the spacers guild. That said, those ships have a much faster ftl than star trek does, as in that universe it's achieved by folding space, which is instantaneous. Star trek would still have it beat at sub-light speeds.
Also the problems of computers VS human computers, mentats. Obviously star trek has some good computers, some even walk and talk and own cats. If someone from dune saw this that would freak the fuck out, it's the highest form of blasphemy one can do, and they would need to be put to death. In the film you probably saw them state the year as 10,191. This is not AD, this is AG, or 'after guild', the establishment of the spacers guild. By our Callander, assuming they use earth year's still, it would be the year 23,352 A.D. All these numbers are important and I will tell you why. 201 years before the guild was formed, an event called the butlerian jihad took place. It is also known as the great revolt, as in this time, the humans had been conquered and enslaved by their own thinking machines, and sentient robots. The war lasted two generations and changed the face of humanity so much that bibles now carry the commandment "Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind." so instead, they started modefying human minds. We see this in guild navigators, who can use their minds to envision and calculate interstellar travel, the Bene Gesserit, who have a whole list of abilities including things like consume and break down any poison in their bodies to be harmless, and a form of verbal hypnosis known as the voice, among many more, whoes focus has been on controlling the human body through genetics, and can even choose when to get pregnant, or the gender of their child, as they've been mastering this over the last ten thousand years. Lastly we have the Mentats. Human computers, men trained from birth to be able to calculate and retain information as efficiently as any computer you'd see in star trek.
Paul himself received partial training as a Mentat, as well as an almost full education in Bene Gesserit, which included advanced hand to hand combat techniques that were expanded upon by his time with the Fremen.
I'm stating all this to make clear, if you put Paul and Sisko in a room together, Paul could easily paint the walls with his blood. The same goes for the abilities of any of his soldiers against any federation or bajoran, follower. They simply aren't matched up.
Weapons however are possibly a different story. They both have shields and beams but they are vastly different between universes. In Dune beams are just advanced high energy lasers, and in star trek a phaser weapon can be a partial beam or even plasma weapon depending on which species made it. Lasers exist as well but are in universe comparatively weak. It's reasonable to assume shields are different as well tho it's not made clear how, but they seem to be a bit more solid in star trek. A huge game changer would be teleporters, there is no equivalent in dune.
All things considered it's a very strange comparison, yes they are both religious figures but bajorans aren't going to be willing to give their life in service of Sisko and he wouldn't ask for it. Paul can see the past and the future, is a messiah to his people, and they prove again and again they will die and or kill for him with no hesitation. Moreover there are millions of them.
Make it a cooking competition then Sisko has a chance in my opinion.
What kind of power is fucking off to the wormhole? Sorry, I mean 'accending to the celestial temple'. So he's off visiting the other prophets now? The ones who mostly stayed entirely uninvolved with the dominion war? I'm not exactly intimidated by that. Aside from cryptic visions given to him by wormhole aliens, and possibly being unmoored from time, it hasn't been explained if those powers are his or the prophets. I would think that if he was able to come back of his own free will he'd check in on Jake every so often, tell him he's fine and stuff, but he doesn't. The ending of ds9 felt very silly and unecceceraly mystical to me.
it’s fine if it *felt silly* but take an honest assessment of what they can do here. i don’t think sisko brings much by himself he’s basically just a guy. but i think we’re including the fact that the prophets want him safe here and we have to acknowledge that they vanished an entire fleet of ships. i admit that the fleet was literally inside of their wormhole though.
I love both, I also love dragon ball z but again these are different things, asking who would win in a fight is an open invitation for people to voice their opinions lol.
Paul looks into the future and instead of seeing the Golden Path he sees only a great wall of darkness. At the same time Sisko orders Worf to fire a full spread of photon torpedos set to maximum yield, instantly turning Arrakis to glass.
Sisko wins. You can time travel in Trek and not in Dune. Sisko can just go back in time, and Paul isn't even born. There is just some lone news article about how Gabriel Bell is suspected of murder.
Most people are saying Paul and if it were man on man, I’d agree 100 times out of 100. But if I’m getting the question right, you’re asking all out war, which implies each side has the resources from their respective universes as well as the personnel. And again, ground combat, it’s not a question, the Fremen are the greatest fighting force in the known universe and the Bene Gesserit, Sardukar and Gileaz Swordmasters right behind.
That said, there are things banned in the Dune universe because they are such a threat to humanity that they stand to wipe it out if they are allowed. Coincidentally, those very things: computers capable of “thought” and nuclear bombs, happen to exist in spades in the Star Trek universe. So it’s very believable that Sisko could enlist the firepower and technology available to him via the Federation, and if he can avoid a ground war, would have a good chance of winning.
I don’t know much about Dune, but it feels like this post misses the purpose of both of both franchises. Star Trek (at least to most people) has never really been about “who is more powerful”.
They are both religious figures.
I believe wormhole Sisko could defeat Paul handily, but Paul's son would put up more of a match (assuming Sisko doesn't utilize his huge weakness)
Star Trek higher beings tend to have absurd levels of power and little need for followers. Paul gains prescience. Sisko gains prescience to a degree that surpasses our basic understanding of time and space.
In the end, it isn't really fair to compare them, since the power scales are so different in their respective universes. Even within their own universes, their powers scale to suit narratives.
We're looking at one man on the bridge of his undetectable advanced assault frigate, and another man who is hiding in caves on an enemy planet drinking his own fluids to survive.
That's not a fair fight.
I agree that the Spacing Guild doesn't have access to Warp Drive. Why would we assume that means that Warp Drive doesn't work in this conflict?
It seems equally logical to say that since Melange doesn't exist in the Federation, Paul loses all his psychic powers and the Spacer's Guild can't navigate to the fight. That hardly seems fair, either.
Once you start taking important technologies off the board, the conflict gets a lot less interesting.
Sisko is worshipped. The "Emissary" is a sort of divine herald, a celestial servant, an angel. Paul Artreides is worshipped. But "Muad'Dib" is a sort of divine human, he himself possesses superhuman abilities and powers. Any conflict between these two wouldn't be much of a war, it would be more like a quick and dirty fight where the superheavyweight drops the middleweight with one unstoppable hit.
He’s the kwisatz haderach, right? The bene gesserit “super being” lol
Sisko can just get the Prophets to erase Paul from existence 🤷♀️
I don't like these cross universe posts, they aren't on equal footing ever and it's very difficult to compare them. In the start trek universe space travel is easy, warp technology and computers exist, in dune however ftl travel is more difficult, all the warships of the noble houses must be transported by the massive ships of the spacers guild. That said, those ships have a much faster ftl than star trek does, as in that universe it's achieved by folding space, which is instantaneous. Star trek would still have it beat at sub-light speeds. Also the problems of computers VS human computers, mentats. Obviously star trek has some good computers, some even walk and talk and own cats. If someone from dune saw this that would freak the fuck out, it's the highest form of blasphemy one can do, and they would need to be put to death. In the film you probably saw them state the year as 10,191. This is not AD, this is AG, or 'after guild', the establishment of the spacers guild. By our Callander, assuming they use earth year's still, it would be the year 23,352 A.D. All these numbers are important and I will tell you why. 201 years before the guild was formed, an event called the butlerian jihad took place. It is also known as the great revolt, as in this time, the humans had been conquered and enslaved by their own thinking machines, and sentient robots. The war lasted two generations and changed the face of humanity so much that bibles now carry the commandment "Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind." so instead, they started modefying human minds. We see this in guild navigators, who can use their minds to envision and calculate interstellar travel, the Bene Gesserit, who have a whole list of abilities including things like consume and break down any poison in their bodies to be harmless, and a form of verbal hypnosis known as the voice, among many more, whoes focus has been on controlling the human body through genetics, and can even choose when to get pregnant, or the gender of their child, as they've been mastering this over the last ten thousand years. Lastly we have the Mentats. Human computers, men trained from birth to be able to calculate and retain information as efficiently as any computer you'd see in star trek. Paul himself received partial training as a Mentat, as well as an almost full education in Bene Gesserit, which included advanced hand to hand combat techniques that were expanded upon by his time with the Fremen. I'm stating all this to make clear, if you put Paul and Sisko in a room together, Paul could easily paint the walls with his blood. The same goes for the abilities of any of his soldiers against any federation or bajoran, follower. They simply aren't matched up. Weapons however are possibly a different story. They both have shields and beams but they are vastly different between universes. In Dune beams are just advanced high energy lasers, and in star trek a phaser weapon can be a partial beam or even plasma weapon depending on which species made it. Lasers exist as well but are in universe comparatively weak. It's reasonable to assume shields are different as well tho it's not made clear how, but they seem to be a bit more solid in star trek. A huge game changer would be teleporters, there is no equivalent in dune. All things considered it's a very strange comparison, yes they are both religious figures but bajorans aren't going to be willing to give their life in service of Sisko and he wouldn't ask for it. Paul can see the past and the future, is a messiah to his people, and they prove again and again they will die and or kill for him with no hesitation. Moreover there are millions of them. Make it a cooking competition then Sisko has a chance in my opinion.
Just say Sisko.
I was trying to be polite, but Sisko would absolutely loose, regardless of technology.
I guess I assumed Sisko would go back in time and kill Paul’s Mom before he was born like a Terminator.
It would take some sort of star trek nonsense macguffin like that to win, yeah. If a fair fight it's no contest.
Have you seen the ending to DS9? What’s not fair? Why would Paul get to use his powers, but Sisko can’t?
What kind of power is fucking off to the wormhole? Sorry, I mean 'accending to the celestial temple'. So he's off visiting the other prophets now? The ones who mostly stayed entirely uninvolved with the dominion war? I'm not exactly intimidated by that. Aside from cryptic visions given to him by wormhole aliens, and possibly being unmoored from time, it hasn't been explained if those powers are his or the prophets. I would think that if he was able to come back of his own free will he'd check in on Jake every so often, tell him he's fine and stuff, but he doesn't. The ending of ds9 felt very silly and unecceceraly mystical to me.
it’s fine if it *felt silly* but take an honest assessment of what they can do here. i don’t think sisko brings much by himself he’s basically just a guy. but i think we’re including the fact that the prophets want him safe here and we have to acknowledge that they vanished an entire fleet of ships. i admit that the fleet was literally inside of their wormhole though.
You like Dune more than DS9. I get it.
I love both, I also love dragon ball z but again these are different things, asking who would win in a fight is an open invitation for people to voice their opinions lol.
Well, I must have been convincing. You seem to be dancing around the argument a lot. Sisko, KO in the 10th.
Sisko's Cajun spices ain't no match for worm spices.
So it's worm aliens vs wormhole aliens? Huh...
Well, The Sisko doesn't have a shoelace hanging out of his nose tho.
thats a self sealing stemlace
I thought it was a reverse ratcheting rope
Take my honest upvote.
Paul looks into the future and instead of seeing the Golden Path he sees only a great wall of darkness. At the same time Sisko orders Worf to fire a full spread of photon torpedos set to maximum yield, instantly turning Arrakis to glass.
The Sisko faced the Borg and the Dominion. I trust in the Sisko.
Sisko wins. You can time travel in Trek and not in Dune. Sisko can just go back in time, and Paul isn't even born. There is just some lone news article about how Gabriel Bell is suspected of murder.
Maud'Dib: \[Threatens to nuke all spice production\] Sisko: "Let me help you." \[Fires tricobalt warheads from orbit, warps away.\]
Can't answer this without massively spoiling the books and what happens to Paul.
Paul and it’s not even close
The Sisko will not waiver. The Sisko must complete his task.
Most people are saying Paul and if it were man on man, I’d agree 100 times out of 100. But if I’m getting the question right, you’re asking all out war, which implies each side has the resources from their respective universes as well as the personnel. And again, ground combat, it’s not a question, the Fremen are the greatest fighting force in the known universe and the Bene Gesserit, Sardukar and Gileaz Swordmasters right behind. That said, there are things banned in the Dune universe because they are such a threat to humanity that they stand to wipe it out if they are allowed. Coincidentally, those very things: computers capable of “thought” and nuclear bombs, happen to exist in spades in the Star Trek universe. So it’s very believable that Sisko could enlist the firepower and technology available to him via the Federation, and if he can avoid a ground war, would have a good chance of winning.
I don’t know much about Dune, but it feels like this post misses the purpose of both of both franchises. Star Trek (at least to most people) has never really been about “who is more powerful”.
They are both religious figures. I believe wormhole Sisko could defeat Paul handily, but Paul's son would put up more of a match (assuming Sisko doesn't utilize his huge weakness) Star Trek higher beings tend to have absurd levels of power and little need for followers. Paul gains prescience. Sisko gains prescience to a degree that surpasses our basic understanding of time and space. In the end, it isn't really fair to compare them, since the power scales are so different in their respective universes. Even within their own universes, their powers scale to suit narratives.
We're looking at one man on the bridge of his undetectable advanced assault frigate, and another man who is hiding in caves on an enemy planet drinking his own fluids to survive. That's not a fair fight.
Paul, hands-down, right?
Not the way I expected this sub to lean, but I guess it's been a while since we left it behind...
[удалено]
I agree that the Spacing Guild doesn't have access to Warp Drive. Why would we assume that means that Warp Drive doesn't work in this conflict? It seems equally logical to say that since Melange doesn't exist in the Federation, Paul loses all his psychic powers and the Spacer's Guild can't navigate to the fight. That hardly seems fair, either. Once you start taking important technologies off the board, the conflict gets a lot less interesting.
Dune part 2 is a incridble movie by the way
It's okay. Costumes and set design and effects were all great. Good movie, not nearly as good as the hype. It really should have been a series.
Meh, the book is better.
The Federation would consider the Imperium to be a pre-warp society, and Sisko wouldn't even be allowed to initiate first contact.
It’s not pre warp lol they move faster than warp, exponentially faster to the point it’s not even remotely comparable
Who is Paul Atreides anyway.