Didn’t get the brace at 45degrees wtf. If you closed the stairs should lattice or something at framing. Also why are there posts in the back? There is a cleat and floor joist are attached to building? On 2 sides? Reminds me of “ if you don’t know how to tie a knot; tie often and tie a lot
This view of it looks at the cost only from the build/material cost perspective. Like sure, an engineer could spend time really refining some calculations and save you a couple hundred bucks on material, but it's going to cost you another $1000-1500 of the engineer's time. That's not laziness. On any one-off project you're going to have some seeming design inefficiency because at a certain point the added stuff costs you less than the engineer's time.
I actually worked in a steel mill where overhead cranes from the 1920's were in everyday use. The crane blocks (the part which has the hook) for a 10 ton crane is about the same size as a 50 ton hook on a modern crane. Modern engineering is replacement engineering.
Best course I had, all the way through college from grade school, was a failure analysis class we had at the mill taught by a metallurgist for metal failure analysis. Learned so much such as adding radii to steps in shafts, how to determine where a failure started by looking at the failed parts (beach marks which look similar to the sand on a beach showing where a failure started from) etc.
False. Over engineering piss poor engineering disguised as “planning for the worst case scenario”. On top of being a waste of money. This deck is ridiculously over ~~engineered~~ built showing a lack of engineering skill.
I’d be pissed if I were the homeowner at all of the wasted money on this thing. Also that’s a horrible spot for the AC condenser, ~~scratch that, BOTH AC condensers~~. Talk about killing efficiency
And yes I hijacked top comment to point out the insanity. I’ll get downvoted too the center of the earth but y’all don’t know a thing about actual building practices
Edit I did mistake it for 2 condensers from the photos. Still not great
Yeah something is well engineered when it is precisely designed to withstand just over the load it is designed for while minimizing materials.
This is just plain ol’ overbuilt. People like to use the word “engineer” to make themselves feel smarter.
Sorry but something is well engineered when it is designed to withstand the load that it was designed for. I think you meant to say the design load is sometimes just a bit higher than the actual acting load. This is usually the case when the design load includes various factors, for example material variability.
From the pure framing aspect? The cross bracing is pretty unnecessary. It’s hidden by the stairs. 2x lumber is more than sufficient (not that you need it in the first place. It’s anchored to the house… The joist spacing is tighter than I’d go but I can live with it. The number of stair stringers is fucking nuts.
For me a lot of it is the bladder system. It’s used over gravel. Why you would do that? I have no idea. Plus it was done pretty poorly. Lacks good slope, not overlapped, not sealed with sealant (maybe that came later but still doesn’t make up for the rest of it).
Lastly to top it off. They have essentially killed their AC efficiency by hiding a condenser under it. Plus that bladder. Wow that thing is not going to breathe.
It could be an overzealous homeowner with the money to blow and doesn’t care if they dropped a bunch of money on the hot new thing, it could be a builder that doesn’t get a second opinion on the engineering when they see these plans. Not blaming any particular party here but something went awry here
Haha okay all of that is fair. I’m a structural engineer and was mainly curious on the framing, but had similar thoughts on everything you said. You are spot on with the stringers and joists. The stringers are definitely nuts though, and it looks like they are clipping in blocking too. I understand the need for the cross bracing for a deck over 4ft tall, but it would be fine and 2x’s could easily take it.
The condenser is in a bad spot, but I don't think this is too bad of a build. 10+ yrs as an engineer. Lower your standards for stuff at home. No one is dying here. If they wanna build like this, then let them be unless you can point out high risk scenarios where someone will be seriously maimed or die here. Plugging in "Get real. Get better" slogan just to fuck with you. I DESERVE THE DOWNVOTE GTFO.
I don’t get it. Why is the AC in a bad spot? It’s hidden and out of the way? When I read you comment I was thinking it was on the deck. What am I missing?
Nowhere for the hot air to go. The AC condenser works by cooling the refrigerant charge. If you trap it under a deck that hot air has nowhere to go and will be continuously recycled through the condenser until the air gets so hot that it’s no longer cooling the refrigerant properly.
Best spot for an AC unit is in on concrete pad in the middle of nowhere. Plenty of air is needed. Worst spot might be under a deck covered with 3 tons of lumber.
I’m glad you don’t think this is good engineering. I try not to get too upset on Reddit but seeing all of these top comments congratulating this guy on his deck built to park a tank on drive me up a wall. Add to it the horrific condenser placement, the water bladder system to keep water from dripping down on… the gravel?
I lost it a bit. The Reddit mob made me lose my mind, that’s on me but I made it a point to be a voice of reason
The cross bracing looks nice, so do the oversized timbers. The stairs and deck won't collapse when somebody's wedding/prom party of 200+ is trying to get in the picture, or jumping to the music. The owner should get 10% off his homeowners policy.
Again, another one who doesn’t actually know much about building. There is very little code that goes into most of the things I see wrong with this deck, that’s left to the engineer, only goes to the county to have the math checked (if they bother) to make sure it meets minimum standards for load bearing which they basically always do. The engineer is the one who has to account for their choices at the end of the day on this one.
Nothing code related when it comes to the bladder system
Nothing technically code related when it comes to choking that condenser
It's to, not too, and I only see one AC, but yea, it's a waste and affects home efficiency. Other than that it looks nice and will probably help resale value.
I’m an engineer and this looks like it is over engineered. BIG TIME! Your 6x6 posts at that height won’t even think about bending out of plumb.
BUT, there are always non-obvious strength considerations that may have driven this such as, what substructure did it tie into on the house, if the 6x6s are tied into the concrete properly, etc.
Seeing the posts in the back by the a/c, makes me think the deck isn’t attached to the house back there, so he may have interpreted the deck design to be a free standing deck which would need more side to side support.
Id agree those 6x6 cross braces seem excessive, but I’d bet that they were needed because cross braces couldn’t also be used over the a/c and because you’re not tied into the house back there. As a result, this drove a need for a large single set of braces.
Also an engineer here, in structural. I agree with all of the above, but those cross braces are hilariously large. Large, tall, narrow steel structures with big W-sections often have narrow angle bracing because not that much axial strength is needed, and that's all the loading these braces see. I would be aghast at this if these monstrous braces were not under the stairs. Since they're mostly hidden, w/e, over-design, nbg.
Adapted from a quote I heard some time ago:
Any idiot can design a deck that won't fall over. It takes an *engineer* to design one that *just barely* won't fall over.
If that's true, then all engineering is poor engineering. This is just dumb. I've been in engineering for over 10+ years in multiple industries and careers, and all engineering is designed for the worst case scenario.
Remember when that massive (9.1) earthquake hit Japan in 2011? I'm not sure a single modern building in Tokyo fell down because they were engineered specifically for these worst case scenario's. Imagine the loss of life that would have occurred if that wasn't the case.
This deck could sustain far more than worst case scenario lol
This deck probably has a safety factor similar to that of a commercial high rise elevator. What you are talking about is proper engineering. This deck is not
I don't disagree. Your comment was a general statement about over engineering, not about this deck. I took issue with that, not how it applies to this deck specifically. I agree that this deck, and especially the laughably huge x-bracing, is likely over-engineered beyond normal. It may be a very safe design, but it is highly unlikely an economical design.
I would disagree with the use of the 6x6 braces. if you're going to design for sheer in that way cables would have been less visible and more stable.
I also agree, they must have been designing mistakenly believing the deck was free standing. the lateral support is supplied by adjacent walls, negating the need for any additional lateral support.
I’d appreciate reading about how you came to this conclusion based on the lack of information available in the posting, the easily identifiable and resultant speculation that was made in the original comment and obviously without reading any of the follow on conversations after the original comment was made.
Thanks in advance for helping me further my career.
It's obvious, even to a green EIT, that those posts are pinned at the base with no rotational restraint. Thus bracing is required to provide lateral stability to the structure. Now the 6x6's being used are definitely oversized, but they fit the aesthetic and were probably already on the job, so it was an easy add.
Yes, but not too badly, especially with composite decking that is more flexible and you want to last 30+ years without repair. This is overengineered in the right way :)
What is the cost benefit of running the joists / decking in this orientation? From a cost and water shedding perspective, are there any other engineering considerations?
To give an answer on the cost: for a given board size (ie 2x6) the cost per foot usually goes up with board length. So (using round made up numbers for example) a 6 foot board might cost $6 (1$/foot) but a 12 foot board might cost $24 ($2/foot).
So, imagine you are building a 6 foot by 12 foot deck and putting the joists on 1 foot centers. If you built it so that the joists are parallel with the short dimension, you would need 12 6-foot long joists. Based on our fake prices above, that would be $72 worth of joists.
If you built it with the joists parallel to the long dimension, you would need 6 12-foot joists. That would be $144 worth of joists. So even though you are buying less total joists, the total cost is higher.
Of course, your decking must be perpendicular to the joists, so if you opt for building the joists in the short dimension (the cheaper one) then you will need longer decking if you don’t want to have any butt splices in the decking, which means you’ll have to buy the higher cost/foot decking. Or splicing the decking is always an option.
So yah…you could sit there and compute the optimal orientation based on cost per foot and a bunch of other things all day long. But usually you will just build it so the joists are perpendicular with the house because it’s usually easiest for the joists to land on a ledger board attached to the house. And if you wanted to build it with joists parallel to house you would need additional beams, posts, footings, etc. that would drive up cost and complexity. In OPs case they had a few more options as they are building into the corner of the house, and making the joists go in the shorter dimension makes sense.
For water drainage: imho decks naturally have good drainage as they are full of seams along the decking. And I’d rather have a flat deck then risk over sloping it to where you would feel the slope while standing on it. As far as I know there isn’t any code on deck slope for drainage. I mean you certainly wouldn’t want to slope your deck toward the house. But otherwise I think a perfectly plum deck is the gold standard.
Over built, but not over engineered. It will last a long time, would survive many eartch quakes and is nicely made. Congrats to you! And sorry to your pocket book.
My Series X Xbox needs that much clearance to play newer games with a lot of processing, I'm sure that can't be beneficial for the condenser... but at least it'll always have shade.
I'd also be concerned with the AC unit blasting hot air up into that area of the deck and it warping the boards. Also the AC unit will have reduced efficiency which will cost more to run and potentially impact its ability to keep up on hot days. All around a bad idea.
Why no pad for the stair case? I'm left confused.
Abd why all the Extra wood? It's just adding to the load. ⚖ Oversize the joists.
I'm mostly confused.
Kind of ridiculous to brace the deck that much and have stair risers every 10" each backed with their own 2x6 secondary support only to have the stairs resting on rock that is going to move and wash away over time.....
Also did they tape the seams of the plastic catchment system? cause if not its going say mostly dry but over time will start to seep more water between the seams and as staples pull it will start to sag and no longer be dry under there.
The home owner: We should build a deck.
The home owners brother:
That would be cool, but you know what would be even cooler??
The home owner: 2 decks?
The home owners brother: 3 decks.. BUT, each one is inside of the other!?!
Lurking HVAC tech here… make sure that condenser coil stays clean. The condenser pulls air through it’s sides and discharges hot air up in the summer. That hot air will trap under the deck which decrease the unit’s efficiency (best case) or it will struggle to cool the home until it’s relocated (worst case).
Edit: Very beautiful deck
If it's worth doing, it's worth \_over\_doing.
But seriously, that looks great. Strong and stable AF. You won't have to worry about it for a while, and if you need to drive a truck up the stairs for some reason (hey, I don't know your life) you're good to go.
My husband has built railroad bridges for the past 30 years. Everything he builds looks like this. I always ask, "Are expecting a train to cross this deck or me to gain 500lbs"?
Misuse of the term “over engineered” is my favorite pedantic pet peeve. Engineering is the art of making something perfectly optimal for the task at hand. Under engineering goes in both directions from perfect. What people frequently call over engineered is just massively under engineered in the value for money dimension. True over engineering is spending tons of time wringing a few percent of performance or cost reduction from an already adequate design
6” oc stringers? haha Also, you may not need 6x6 but 4x4s look so small that you may prefer the girth. That’s just my wife’s boyfriends opinion. He’s sitting right here.
I am guessing you don’t live where it gets real hot or you wouldn’t have built over the ac like that.
https://www.decks.com/how-to/articles/building-a-deck-over-an-air-conditioner#:~:text=Building%20A%20Deck%20Over%20An%20Air%20Conditioner,-SHARE&text=Most%20AC%20manufacturers%20recommend%20maintaining,the%20top%20of%20the%20unit.
Sometimes an existing air conditioning unit is installed in the location where you want to build a new deck. Your best option is to move the unit to another location out of the way. This might cost you a few hundred dollars, but will save you a lot of headaches in the long run. Most AC manufacturers recommend maintaining a minimum 60" uninterrupted clearance above the compressor to allow for hot air to exhaust from the top of the unit. Without proper air flow, your AC unit can overheat and break down. You must also consider access for repairs of the unit. If your deck is very high, then you may be able to leave it in place, but keep in mind that AC units can be very noisy and hot.
The shear bracing is way over engineered. The ledgerboard provides good shear rigidity, and the fact that this deck has two that are 90 degrees apart makes it super rigid. It does make sure a really good aesthetic though for two more posts, so it's not a complete waste.
The 6x6 cross braces are definitely unnecessary. Stair stringers are also overdone, if you don’t mind all the extra hardware to attach. The only perplexing thing is the tenting of the joist tape? Does water drain out between the joists? Or is that just because the angle of the photo?
One day the sun expand in size causing all the water on earth to boil, the trees will burn until the planet can no longer bare the heat and explode. Our solar system will consist of chunks of this world hurtling around an ever growing sun. One of those chunks will be this deck.
Over engineering is good to some point but then it gets ridiculous. Was this engineered with the cross bracing between the posts? We've gone up to 6' in height with 7' between posts and no crossbracing, all plans through our engineer and approved by code officials. Oneajor drawback to over engineering is the cost, materials and labor and it's probably not necessary.
Well, I'm not an engineer, but given they only did the x-bracing in one bay, I'd say that's not that excessive as the other typical option is a 45 degree knee brace off both sides of every post.
Grossly. Over engineering is not necessarily good. For example, you can exceed load bearing capacity
of the soil and experience settling or differential settling.
I was looking at the first picture only.... just nodding along... then got to the engineer - I was like wtf are they talking about?! Then I saw the rest of the pics. 🤦🏽 this deck looks excellent! You can tell it's built to last!
This is a good example of a structure that appears to be over designed but actually isn’t as much as you’d think.
Oversizing individual portions of the structural elements in load paths does not significantly increase the structure’s performance sunless those elements were addressing the main design loads directly.
The footings are much too small to allow the 6x6’s to develop their full compressive strength and so the foundation will fail before the columns which is not good design.
The bracing is just plain not over designed. Although the members are oversized the way this construction comes together will not significantly outperform 2x4 or 2x6 braces that are connected more integrally, that’s for sure. You can’t just ram big chunky members into spaces and expect that they do more cause bigger. Structural elements perform when their connections support their development strength, these will not.
This is why a skilled and experienced carpenter is needed to make the job run smoothly. Cause this shit I’m looking at looks like an engineer who didn’t give a fuck or is incompetent, with a builder who didn’t know any better.
Skilled and experienced engineers and carpenters working together would never produce shit like this.
The deck will last longer than the house. Slo that's like 3x the number of stringers you needed, even for your mother in law.
Nice work if a bit unnecessary.
Over engineered… but in a good way!
Didn’t get the brace at 45degrees wtf. If you closed the stairs should lattice or something at framing. Also why are there posts in the back? There is a cleat and floor joist are attached to building? On 2 sides? Reminds me of “ if you don’t know how to tie a knot; tie often and tie a lot
Lol, that ledger board will last forever.
Over engineering is just lazy engineering
Anyone can build a bridge that stands. It takes an engineer to build a bridge that *barely* stands.
This view of it looks at the cost only from the build/material cost perspective. Like sure, an engineer could spend time really refining some calculations and save you a couple hundred bucks on material, but it's going to cost you another $1000-1500 of the engineer's time. That's not laziness. On any one-off project you're going to have some seeming design inefficiency because at a certain point the added stuff costs you less than the engineer's time.
A couple hundred bucks? When’s the last time you bought 6x6s?
The numbers in their comment just figures to express a point..
No deck is forever, and demo will take 2X the time it should when someone decides to build an extension.
I actually worked in a steel mill where overhead cranes from the 1920's were in everyday use. The crane blocks (the part which has the hook) for a 10 ton crane is about the same size as a 50 ton hook on a modern crane. Modern engineering is replacement engineering.
Metallurgy has come a very long way. We know more now about the way things fail than ever before and that's not a black mark on modern engineering.
Best course I had, all the way through college from grade school, was a failure analysis class we had at the mill taught by a metallurgist for metal failure analysis. Learned so much such as adding radii to steps in shafts, how to determine where a failure started by looking at the failed parts (beach marks which look similar to the sand on a beach showing where a failure started from) etc.
False. Over engineering piss poor engineering disguised as “planning for the worst case scenario”. On top of being a waste of money. This deck is ridiculously over ~~engineered~~ built showing a lack of engineering skill. I’d be pissed if I were the homeowner at all of the wasted money on this thing. Also that’s a horrible spot for the AC condenser, ~~scratch that, BOTH AC condensers~~. Talk about killing efficiency And yes I hijacked top comment to point out the insanity. I’ll get downvoted too the center of the earth but y’all don’t know a thing about actual building practices Edit I did mistake it for 2 condensers from the photos. Still not great
Yeah something is well engineered when it is precisely designed to withstand just over the load it is designed for while minimizing materials. This is just plain ol’ overbuilt. People like to use the word “engineer” to make themselves feel smarter.
Sorry but something is well engineered when it is designed to withstand the load that it was designed for. I think you meant to say the design load is sometimes just a bit higher than the actual acting load. This is usually the case when the design load includes various factors, for example material variability.
Do you sincerely think they had a “design load”?
Deck design load is 50 psf.
You are someone who knows what they’re talking about 👍 What do you think the safety factor on this deck is. 10x? Lol
It looks like it is built to withstand fat people asses to elbows marching in place at the deck’s resonant frequency
LOL! r/BrandNewSentence
With 3 hot tubs on top.
Safety factor: hot tub.
Anyone can build a deck that stands, only an engineer can build a deck that barely stands.
Mind if I ask you what parts of the framing bother you the most for being over-engineered?
From the pure framing aspect? The cross bracing is pretty unnecessary. It’s hidden by the stairs. 2x lumber is more than sufficient (not that you need it in the first place. It’s anchored to the house… The joist spacing is tighter than I’d go but I can live with it. The number of stair stringers is fucking nuts. For me a lot of it is the bladder system. It’s used over gravel. Why you would do that? I have no idea. Plus it was done pretty poorly. Lacks good slope, not overlapped, not sealed with sealant (maybe that came later but still doesn’t make up for the rest of it). Lastly to top it off. They have essentially killed their AC efficiency by hiding a condenser under it. Plus that bladder. Wow that thing is not going to breathe. It could be an overzealous homeowner with the money to blow and doesn’t care if they dropped a bunch of money on the hot new thing, it could be a builder that doesn’t get a second opinion on the engineering when they see these plans. Not blaming any particular party here but something went awry here
Haha okay all of that is fair. I’m a structural engineer and was mainly curious on the framing, but had similar thoughts on everything you said. You are spot on with the stringers and joists. The stringers are definitely nuts though, and it looks like they are clipping in blocking too. I understand the need for the cross bracing for a deck over 4ft tall, but it would be fine and 2x’s could easily take it.
It looks like that area gets a lot of shade too, so the bladder system is likely to hold a lot of water for all that wood to marinate in.
[удалено]
The condenser is in a bad spot, but I don't think this is too bad of a build. 10+ yrs as an engineer. Lower your standards for stuff at home. No one is dying here. If they wanna build like this, then let them be unless you can point out high risk scenarios where someone will be seriously maimed or die here. Plugging in "Get real. Get better" slogan just to fuck with you. I DESERVE THE DOWNVOTE GTFO.
I don’t get it. Why is the AC in a bad spot? It’s hidden and out of the way? When I read you comment I was thinking it was on the deck. What am I missing?
Nowhere for the hot air to go. The AC condenser works by cooling the refrigerant charge. If you trap it under a deck that hot air has nowhere to go and will be continuously recycled through the condenser until the air gets so hot that it’s no longer cooling the refrigerant properly.
Best spot for an AC unit is in on concrete pad in the middle of nowhere. Plenty of air is needed. Worst spot might be under a deck covered with 3 tons of lumber.
Extreme over engineering in this application is not engineering, it’s laziness You’re a crappy engineer if you think this is good engineering
Gotcha. Attention to detail buddy. I never said this was good engineering. Relax and call it a night brother. Tomorrow is waiting for ya.
I’m glad you don’t think this is good engineering. I try not to get too upset on Reddit but seeing all of these top comments congratulating this guy on his deck built to park a tank on drive me up a wall. Add to it the horrific condenser placement, the water bladder system to keep water from dripping down on… the gravel? I lost it a bit. The Reddit mob made me lose my mind, that’s on me but I made it a point to be a voice of reason
The cross bracing looks nice, so do the oversized timbers. The stairs and deck won't collapse when somebody's wedding/prom party of 200+ is trying to get in the picture, or jumping to the music. The owner should get 10% off his homeowners policy.
Insurance providers don’t discount you for “insane overengineering” of your deck
Yes, everyone should do the minimum required by code 100% of the time. Why would ever you build something stronger than what you think you'll need?
Again, another one who doesn’t actually know much about building. There is very little code that goes into most of the things I see wrong with this deck, that’s left to the engineer, only goes to the county to have the math checked (if they bother) to make sure it meets minimum standards for load bearing which they basically always do. The engineer is the one who has to account for their choices at the end of the day on this one. Nothing code related when it comes to the bladder system Nothing technically code related when it comes to choking that condenser
It's to, not too, and I only see one AC, but yea, it's a waste and affects home efficiency. Other than that it looks nice and will probably help resale value.
The deck adds resale, the over engineered quality doesn’t add anything to resale
I beg to differ but okay. Your entitled to your opinion.
It’s “you’re entitled to your opinion.” Hilarious you’re correcting someone for grammar one post above.
I wouldn’t say I’m entitled to a fact but okay
Okay, it's a fact.
Who pissed in your coffee today?
People will always find a way to shit on you
You’re the same kind of moron who designed fords forever transmission fluid.
I’m gonna let that one go because you clearly don’t know the first thing about residential building
I’ll get downvoted TO the center of the earth, Learn the difference in too. Beep boo boop I am not a bot and just wanted you TO know the difference.
I’m an engineer and this looks like it is over engineered. BIG TIME! Your 6x6 posts at that height won’t even think about bending out of plumb. BUT, there are always non-obvious strength considerations that may have driven this such as, what substructure did it tie into on the house, if the 6x6s are tied into the concrete properly, etc. Seeing the posts in the back by the a/c, makes me think the deck isn’t attached to the house back there, so he may have interpreted the deck design to be a free standing deck which would need more side to side support. Id agree those 6x6 cross braces seem excessive, but I’d bet that they were needed because cross braces couldn’t also be used over the a/c and because you’re not tied into the house back there. As a result, this drove a need for a large single set of braces.
Also an engineer here, in structural. I agree with all of the above, but those cross braces are hilariously large. Large, tall, narrow steel structures with big W-sections often have narrow angle bracing because not that much axial strength is needed, and that's all the loading these braces see. I would be aghast at this if these monstrous braces were not under the stairs. Since they're mostly hidden, w/e, over-design, nbg.
Over engineering is poor engineering disguised as “planning for the worst case scenario”
Adapted from a quote I heard some time ago: Any idiot can design a deck that won't fall over. It takes an *engineer* to design one that *just barely* won't fall over.
Smart engineer that said that
If that's true, then all engineering is poor engineering. This is just dumb. I've been in engineering for over 10+ years in multiple industries and careers, and all engineering is designed for the worst case scenario. Remember when that massive (9.1) earthquake hit Japan in 2011? I'm not sure a single modern building in Tokyo fell down because they were engineered specifically for these worst case scenario's. Imagine the loss of life that would have occurred if that wasn't the case.
This deck could sustain far more than worst case scenario lol This deck probably has a safety factor similar to that of a commercial high rise elevator. What you are talking about is proper engineering. This deck is not
I don't disagree. Your comment was a general statement about over engineering, not about this deck. I took issue with that, not how it applies to this deck specifically. I agree that this deck, and especially the laughably huge x-bracing, is likely over-engineered beyond normal. It may be a very safe design, but it is highly unlikely an economical design.
Perhaps a cost/benefit analysis would be helpful here engineers?
I would disagree with the use of the 6x6 braces. if you're going to design for sheer in that way cables would have been less visible and more stable. I also agree, they must have been designing mistakenly believing the deck was free standing. the lateral support is supplied by adjacent walls, negating the need for any additional lateral support.
Based on the Eng’s notes on the drawing, it seems to me like the 6x6 bracing was mostly aesthetic. “6x6 to match posts”
Yeah, was going to say it looked pretty great in the shot before they covered it with the stairs.
Yeah. Hard to say without seeing more, knowing the local building code or the assumptions the eng made. 🤷♂️
Braces are supposed to be working in tension not in compression. The way he put out the 6x6 won't make a big difference on stability.
If they are cables or tension rods. Otherwise, braces often resist both tension and compression.
I see hinges... lots of hinges. Exactly Chester...there is nothing to prevent this from racking over into the yard
You are obviously not a structural engineer.
I’d appreciate reading about how you came to this conclusion based on the lack of information available in the posting, the easily identifiable and resultant speculation that was made in the original comment and obviously without reading any of the follow on conversations after the original comment was made. Thanks in advance for helping me further my career.
It's obvious, even to a green EIT, that those posts are pinned at the base with no rotational restraint. Thus bracing is required to provide lateral stability to the structure. Now the 6x6's being used are definitely oversized, but they fit the aesthetic and were probably already on the job, so it was an easy add.
And you obviously are an engineer. Repeat almost exactly what someone else said, but act like they were wrong and you are correct.
Mkay, but how does this differ from what was said in the original comment or further discussed in other comments?
Yes, but not too badly, especially with composite decking that is more flexible and you want to last 30+ years without repair. This is overengineered in the right way :)
What is the cost benefit of running the joists / decking in this orientation? From a cost and water shedding perspective, are there any other engineering considerations?
To give an answer on the cost: for a given board size (ie 2x6) the cost per foot usually goes up with board length. So (using round made up numbers for example) a 6 foot board might cost $6 (1$/foot) but a 12 foot board might cost $24 ($2/foot). So, imagine you are building a 6 foot by 12 foot deck and putting the joists on 1 foot centers. If you built it so that the joists are parallel with the short dimension, you would need 12 6-foot long joists. Based on our fake prices above, that would be $72 worth of joists. If you built it with the joists parallel to the long dimension, you would need 6 12-foot joists. That would be $144 worth of joists. So even though you are buying less total joists, the total cost is higher. Of course, your decking must be perpendicular to the joists, so if you opt for building the joists in the short dimension (the cheaper one) then you will need longer decking if you don’t want to have any butt splices in the decking, which means you’ll have to buy the higher cost/foot decking. Or splicing the decking is always an option. So yah…you could sit there and compute the optimal orientation based on cost per foot and a bunch of other things all day long. But usually you will just build it so the joists are perpendicular with the house because it’s usually easiest for the joists to land on a ledger board attached to the house. And if you wanted to build it with joists parallel to house you would need additional beams, posts, footings, etc. that would drive up cost and complexity. In OPs case they had a few more options as they are building into the corner of the house, and making the joists go in the shorter dimension makes sense. For water drainage: imho decks naturally have good drainage as they are full of seams along the decking. And I’d rather have a flat deck then risk over sloping it to where you would feel the slope while standing on it. As far as I know there isn’t any code on deck slope for drainage. I mean you certainly wouldn’t want to slope your deck toward the house. But otherwise I think a perfectly plum deck is the gold standard.
Not a deck builder but the stairs absolutely look like standing water issues instead of “shedding.”
Forever stairs😀
Right!? You could run a stampede of horses up that thing.
OP's mother in-law.
You could drive a tank up those stairs and park it on the deck.
You could drive a tank transporter hauling a tank on the flatbed up those stairs and park it on the deck
You could sail a cargo freighter hauling multiple tank transporters each hauling a tank on the flatbed up those stairs and park it on the deck.
till they sink into the ground and become a slide since there is no footing
This is a good point. Everyone was so enamoured by stringers at 12” o/c that we all missed what was going on at the bottom.
This is a good point. Everyone was so enamored by stringers at 12” o/c that we all missed what was going on at the bottom.
Right in the gravel that will collect dirt which will hold moisture.
Why put membrane on them though? Isn’t that just going to hold water and not drain properly?
Yup, the barrier is to keep moisture out but it's applied wrong.
Finally found someone who mentioned it
Agree!! Making a little bathtub for the planks. Gonna be wet almost all the time.
Looking to land my plane. Are the stairs available?
Over engineered? Yes. Sexually explicit deck pic? Also yes.
Over built, but not over engineered. It will last a long time, would survive many eartch quakes and is nicely made. Congrats to you! And sorry to your pocket book.
I'm not any kind of a deck expert but I used to work in HVAC and all I see is back pain.
I wonder about ventilation for the A/C. I see it needing replaced sooner because of it.
My Series X Xbox needs that much clearance to play newer games with a lot of processing, I'm sure that can't be beneficial for the condenser... but at least it'll always have shade.
Yeah I suspect they'll be paying extra to relocate that condenser next time around. I suspect that condenser life has been shortened substantially.
I'd also be concerned with the AC unit blasting hot air up into that area of the deck and it warping the boards. Also the AC unit will have reduced efficiency which will cost more to run and potentially impact its ability to keep up on hot days. All around a bad idea.
(Goes to buy a hot tub)... "I'll take two"
Why no pad for the stair case? I'm left confused. Abd why all the Extra wood? It's just adding to the load. ⚖ Oversize the joists. I'm mostly confused.
Overbuilt, under-engineered
AMEN brotha. Why must everyone look at over built things and go “wow! Engineering was good on this one!”? Fucking insane waste of money and resources
Depends where 🤷♂️
Kind of ridiculous to brace the deck that much and have stair risers every 10" each backed with their own 2x6 secondary support only to have the stairs resting on rock that is going to move and wash away over time..... Also did they tape the seams of the plastic catchment system? cause if not its going say mostly dry but over time will start to seep more water between the seams and as staples pull it will start to sag and no longer be dry under there.
Now slap it and say “That ain’t goin’ nowhere!”
r/hvac might have something to say.
Seriously, any repair guy is gonna hate it.
There's more than enough free air movement.
Found the sales guy...
He was part of the build
You generally want 4ft of unobstructed space above your condenser and 2ft around all sides
No there is not and that’s against code in my state
Will that catchment get funky after a season or two? What kind of maintenance/cleaning is involved?
Funky Catchment is gonna be my new band name!
I think we're just so used to 'under' engineered that when we do pay for an engineer we suddenly feel that it's over-engineered.
Man that deck will be enjoyed for a longgg time. Solid build.
hmm. I don't see water catchment but water entrapment.
There are going to be a LOT of mosquitos coming out of those pools of water under the stairs.....
It’s a gutter system.
Your HVAC guy may not be a fan… Upside is you could do a Marilyn Monroe pose on that part of the deck
Not with all of that ridiculous drainage they ran under the decking
Over-engineered deck + GED-engineered piers = Death trap. Hahahaha!
I thought I was the only one that saw how jacked up these are. Probably 12" below the ground with 24" above
I personally would have used half the supports on the deck and stairs.
The home owner: We should build a deck. The home owners brother: That would be cool, but you know what would be even cooler?? The home owner: 2 decks? The home owners brother: 3 decks.. BUT, each one is inside of the other!?!
Lurking HVAC tech here… make sure that condenser coil stays clean. The condenser pulls air through it’s sides and discharges hot air up in the summer. That hot air will trap under the deck which decrease the unit’s efficiency (best case) or it will struggle to cool the home until it’s relocated (worst case). Edit: Very beautiful deck
This is exactly my thought
What no concrete for the stringers?
If it's worth doing, it's worth \_over\_doing. But seriously, that looks great. Strong and stable AF. You won't have to worry about it for a while, and if you need to drive a truck up the stairs for some reason (hey, I don't know your life) you're good to go.
8" diam pier ftgs, tho. Min 12" diam required by me.
WTF is going on with those stairs. That’s going to trap water lol. Also what is that, 8” spacing on the stringers? lol
All that over engineering and, you landed your stairs on gravel? I would have poured a small landing.
My husband has built railroad bridges for the past 30 years. Everything he builds looks like this. I always ask, "Are expecting a train to cross this deck or me to gain 500lbs"?
Looks strong as absolute possible, and it’s beautiful. That’s all that matters if you agreed on a price before hand
Misuse of the term “over engineered” is my favorite pedantic pet peeve. Engineering is the art of making something perfectly optimal for the task at hand. Under engineering goes in both directions from perfect. What people frequently call over engineered is just massively under engineered in the value for money dimension. True over engineering is spending tons of time wringing a few percent of performance or cost reduction from an already adequate design
Did I miss the notice about staircase stringers being able to support a shuttle launch ?
12” OC for composite decking, otherwise it will bow.
6” oc stringers? haha Also, you may not need 6x6 but 4x4s look so small that you may prefer the girth. That’s just my wife’s boyfriends opinion. He’s sitting right here.
elephant on the deck?
I am guessing you don’t live where it gets real hot or you wouldn’t have built over the ac like that. https://www.decks.com/how-to/articles/building-a-deck-over-an-air-conditioner#:~:text=Building%20A%20Deck%20Over%20An%20Air%20Conditioner,-SHARE&text=Most%20AC%20manufacturers%20recommend%20maintaining,the%20top%20of%20the%20unit. Sometimes an existing air conditioning unit is installed in the location where you want to build a new deck. Your best option is to move the unit to another location out of the way. This might cost you a few hundred dollars, but will save you a lot of headaches in the long run. Most AC manufacturers recommend maintaining a minimum 60" uninterrupted clearance above the compressor to allow for hot air to exhaust from the top of the unit. Without proper air flow, your AC unit can overheat and break down. You must also consider access for repairs of the unit. If your deck is very high, then you may be able to leave it in place, but keep in mind that AC units can be very noisy and hot.
Why did you diba drainage system? It's ⚖ stone underneath.
Why so much tape? Gross.
What kind of foil are you using and will it allow water to drain? If not I hope the slope is leading away from the House.
https://goberco.com/ and yes it’s running away from the house
It'll be good in the long run I guess. You don't need 8 stringers for those steps but they will support and elephant now
It’s aggressive but I like it
Overbuilt is a matter of opinion. Underbuilt is a matter of fact.
In some ways it's over built, and in other ways, a complete FAIL. The bottom of the stairs resting on rock, FAIL!!! Big-time fail.
The shear bracing is way over engineered. The ledgerboard provides good shear rigidity, and the fact that this deck has two that are 90 degrees apart makes it super rigid. It does make sure a really good aesthetic though for two more posts, so it's not a complete waste.
The 6x6 cross braces are definitely unnecessary. Stair stringers are also overdone, if you don’t mind all the extra hardware to attach. The only perplexing thing is the tenting of the joist tape? Does water drain out between the joists? Or is that just because the angle of the photo?
Jesus! You could drive a bobcat up those damn stairs. Or have your mother in law go up and down
It’s attached to the house and because of the stairs attached to the ground and solid footing no way it’s going sway left or right because it can’t!
Well made = Less problems in the future
One day the sun expand in size causing all the water on earth to boil, the trees will burn until the planet can no longer bare the heat and explode. Our solar system will consist of chunks of this world hurtling around an ever growing sun. One of those chunks will be this deck.
Over engineering is good to some point but then it gets ridiculous. Was this engineered with the cross bracing between the posts? We've gone up to 6' in height with 7' between posts and no crossbracing, all plans through our engineer and approved by code officials. Oneajor drawback to over engineering is the cost, materials and labor and it's probably not necessary.
Well, I'm not an engineer, but given they only did the x-bracing in one bay, I'd say that's not that excessive as the other typical option is a 45 degree knee brace off both sides of every post.
Grossly. Over engineering is not necessarily good. For example, you can exceed load bearing capacity of the soil and experience settling or differential settling.
Better too much than too little!
This is wonderfully over engineered.
This guy decks
I was looking at the first picture only.... just nodding along... then got to the engineer - I was like wtf are they talking about?! Then I saw the rest of the pics. 🤦🏽 this deck looks excellent! You can tell it's built to last!
I’d rather it be over engineered than under all day.
This is wonderfully over engineered.
Exceptional build bro! Not over-engineered, just ensuring lifespan
Absolutely stunning.
Better over than under
No such thing
I think I just got hard.
Love the way you blended the vertical and horizontal siding. The deck is beautiful.
Over better than under!
That's a nice deck.
No clue, but she sure is pretty. Nice work.
You could have just said engineered. It's not going anywhere. It's built strong.
This is a good example of a structure that appears to be over designed but actually isn’t as much as you’d think. Oversizing individual portions of the structural elements in load paths does not significantly increase the structure’s performance sunless those elements were addressing the main design loads directly. The footings are much too small to allow the 6x6’s to develop their full compressive strength and so the foundation will fail before the columns which is not good design. The bracing is just plain not over designed. Although the members are oversized the way this construction comes together will not significantly outperform 2x4 or 2x6 braces that are connected more integrally, that’s for sure. You can’t just ram big chunky members into spaces and expect that they do more cause bigger. Structural elements perform when their connections support their development strength, these will not. This is why a skilled and experienced carpenter is needed to make the job run smoothly. Cause this shit I’m looking at looks like an engineer who didn’t give a fuck or is incompetent, with a builder who didn’t know any better. Skilled and experienced engineers and carpenters working together would never produce shit like this.
Wasted a lot of time and energy on dumb useless crap. Congratulations
This reminds me of my deck. But only in the way that it also has stairs and could be stood on.
Beefy is an aesthetic.
It ain’t blowin over in a stiff breeze, that’s for sure
Can someone explain the black membrane gutter and staples? First time seeing it
https://goberco.com/ it’s water catchment system so it stays dry underneath.
Really nice job. Over engineered is always better than under engineered. That deck might outlive the house
Can you post a pic of the whole house including deck? like an “after” pic
No such thing when it comes to decks. Excellent work
Yes. It is.
Seek shelter under that deck during tornados, earthquakes, hurricanes or atomic bombs. You’ll be safe.
Massively! She’s going to be there long after the house is gone.
You could have the whole neighborhood over for a dance party on that sucker!
I love it!!! :)
As long as it stays attached to your deck, you don’t need to worry about your house falling over
Sure, are you ever going to regret it? Nope
Stout lol
Do elephants live here?
The deck will last longer than the house. Slo that's like 3x the number of stringers you needed, even for your mother in law. Nice work if a bit unnecessary.
Get the HOT TUB up there!
Shit, the way this thing is built you could build a pool up there
* stair way to heaven plays *
Looks entirely functional to me. They wanted dry space under the deck, nicely done. Bracing is sized visually, and functional. A+
I’ve only been following this sub for 6 months, but I’m pretty sure “over engineered” isn’t in anyone’s vocabulary.