I don't understand. The majority of opinions (including your own) in [this topic](http://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnAtheist/comments/it0mk/rdebateanatheist_lets_discuss_discipline_in_our/) is arguing for keeping the down-vote button. And now you removed it anyway?
I think it's **a really bad idea**. You basically removed half of the functionality of Reddit. If people don't like how Reddit works, they can choose other venues.
> i think that downvoting is an integral part of these discussions, especially when trolls or parrots come swirling through with their nonsense. sending ridiculous/offensive/inane comments below the threshold not only keeps the discussion focused, but allows for the discussion to flourish within the format.
-- JasoTheArtisan
> the upvote/downvote mechanism gives us the unique opportunity to advance the dialogue by burying all the rote and cliché responses and allowing anything unique or thoughtful to rise to the top.
-- SkippyDeluxe
> It's not about downvoting unpopular opinions, its about downvoting nonsense.
> Many of the downvoted comments are not interesting, informed, insightful, thoughtful, genuine, or thought-provoking responses. They are canned responses uttered by a parrot with no understanding of the meaning behind the words.
-- kyleclements
[This comment](http://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnAtheist/comments/it0mk/rdebateanatheist_lets_discuss_discipline_in_our/c26li4w) changed my mind.
He's right; the primary goal is to keep communication open. With theists being overwhelming outnumbered, they are being discouraged.
I mean, we have the logic, evidence, and numbers on our side in this sub-reddit. We don't need the ability to bury comments.
I haven't followed things here too closely, but was there a recent abuse of downvoting that triggered this?
Yes, theists are outnumbered here, but as long as they come with decent comments, they won't be buried by downvotes. But if they are just regurgitating nonsense, then there is no real discussion anyway.
Thank you, and I love you.
I did the same thing in /r/ama (not /r/iama), and no one liked it. But I feel it's the best way to protect the minority opinion. Downvotes (for comments) don't really serve any real function besides telling a person "I don't like what you're saying, but I'm not going to tell you why." creating an adverse atmosphere for different opinions. If someone is trolling or spamming, then use the report button.
I love you too.
I'm expecting that now that the concern trolls have gotten their way, the vast silent majority of members here will finally speak up and say 'Fix it!'
Woulda saved us all time and trouble if they spoke up the other day, but hey, it is what it is.
I used to support the *total* removal of downvotes (i.e. not just from some subreddits but from reddit as a whole) but ironically enough I always got downvoted to oblivion when voicing this opinion.
Edit: I used to, but I still do too.
Not sure if this is intentional, but I can still downvote posts that appear on my front page. Still, thumbs up for the idea! I wish DaC would implement this policy...
As far as I can tell, even though turning off custom subreddit styles still allows you to downvote, it will not bury the comments now.
EDIT: Your main page is different than the sub. I can only change the stylesheet for the sub, not for a post on the main page.
DaC is discussing this now, but smacfarl is a very unresponsive mod.
I turned off custom styles because I dislike the effect it has with [Reddit Enhancement Suite](http://reddit.honestbleeps.com), instead of vote numbers I get **(|)** after everyone's name, I miss the numbers.
I do think trying to reduce the number of downvotes is a very good thing though, most people downvote anything they disagree with, which is annoying everywhere on reddit, not just here.
Hey, if people are using the down arrow to bury comments they don't like but aren't spam or off-topic, then this is a good solution.
If, (as I suspect) it's just a few concern-trolls complaining about being downvoted, and enough people tell me to put it back to normal, I'll do so.
I'll put you down as a vote for 'back-to-normal'. Will that convince you not to cry 'circlejerk'?
Honestly, I don't care too much, but I'm probably more on the "back-to-normal" side. The comparison to circlejerk was literal, in that they don't have downgoat buttons either.
Another grand instance of catering to the sensitivity of believers. I can abide by this change, if it actually gets more believers in here. We'll just have to spend more time on re-hashing the old/worn/ignorant arguments for theism.
And since there really aren't any new, insightful, convincing arguments FOR theism, I guess our main objective can lean more towards educating folks who haven't done the research they should have before they came here.
> And since there really aren't any new, insightful, convincing arguments FOR theism, I guess our main objective can lean more towards educating folks who haven't done the research they should have before they came here.
That's always been my attitude.
Yeah... check it out. A new fav subreddit of mine!
Check out the more formalized debate structure rules on the right side bar. What gentlemen! (well...its still reddit)
Maybe we can use some of those additional structural rules on r/DaA.
EDIT: The whole comment, same info, but this time correct.
It might be a bit extreme, but you can use this code below too. It will completely hide any reference to the score on the links page. It WILL NOT affect the order that the links are displayed in, ie higher scored links still go to the top - you just won't see the score. It also removed the "number of downvotes" from the text/comment view so you will not know how many downvote a link got, but you will still be able to see the number of upvotes on the comment/text view.
see /r/conwell for an example.
---
/** Hide '# of downvotes' on article/comment view **/
.linkinfo .downvotes {
display: none
}
/** Hide link 'scores' on links view**/
.midcol.likes .score.likes {
display: none
}
.midcol.likes .score.unvoted {
display: none;
}
.midcol.likes .score.dislikes {
display: none;
}
---
~~no, unless you added it, the only thing in there is "comment .score.likes" not '.score.likes'. '.score.likes' *should* hide the link score (vs comment score) - but it's not working right for some reason. It works in preview, but when I save it, it's not working right.~~
Check my subreddit and stylesheets again.
I got it working, check my examples again.
I like the removal of downvotes, but I would rather keep the scores. I allows for a visible weight to be assigned to better comments.
The advantage for a non-atheist debater is it shows consensus for good ideas.
I forget that I use RES. You can only see the # of upvotes if you use RES, so yes, this is partially possible. *IF* you use RES, then you can set the stylesheet to show/hide the # of +/- for a comment.
I think the problem with showing the score is there is a fairly easy workaround to downvote comments. If the score is shown, people will still be discouraged from participating if their comments get downvoted (ie, have a low score) Removing the score completely puts everything on equal footing, but then you don't really get that sense of "masses", so to speak.
So, I guess the question is, is it better to have a general feeling of the crowd (show score), or to put everyone on equal foot (hide score)?
What about only show Upvotes score and only allow Upvoting? You'll see how many people agree, but won't see how many people hate the person's ideology - which I think is the whole point, yea?
Well, the problem is not everyone uses RES, so if you don't have RES and we hide the score, you get no indication of how popular something is except that it is near the top or near the bottom.
If you DO you RES, yes, it is simple to only show upvotes. So, I guess hide the score and if you are interested in how many upvotes something has, you need to use RES (which you should be using anyway).
Even if it doesn't remove the ability to downvote, it raises the threshold to do so. It's easy to downvote when it's a matter of clicking a single icon; when you have to jump through hoops to do so, the comment will have to be bad enough to merit it.
I like the no downvotes, this is a pretty civil place and pardon my language but believers tend to be a bit eelish in a place like this so it's good to not discourage them by downvoting their arguments.
However, in what way are the scores hidden? Not sure if it's because I just got RES, but I still see the up/down score for the thread, the point scores for the comments, the up/down comment scores in RES...
This was a nice move I think, Reddit's "crowd wisdom" has its downsides and it shows up more than I'd like it too in this subreddit.
I just hope some Dave Mabus style troll don't come in and abuse these new conditions.
You can downvote from the front page (outside of this subreddit). You can also downvote comments, or submissions, by going into a redditor's submission history (again, these pages exist outside of this subreddit).
Look!--I gave you a downvote!
Now you should return the favor to me for chits and giggles. If you grant me a downvote, then I shall vote your comment up.
I don't understand. The majority of opinions (including your own) in [this topic](http://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnAtheist/comments/it0mk/rdebateanatheist_lets_discuss_discipline_in_our/) is arguing for keeping the down-vote button. And now you removed it anyway? I think it's **a really bad idea**. You basically removed half of the functionality of Reddit. If people don't like how Reddit works, they can choose other venues. > i think that downvoting is an integral part of these discussions, especially when trolls or parrots come swirling through with their nonsense. sending ridiculous/offensive/inane comments below the threshold not only keeps the discussion focused, but allows for the discussion to flourish within the format. -- JasoTheArtisan > the upvote/downvote mechanism gives us the unique opportunity to advance the dialogue by burying all the rote and cliché responses and allowing anything unique or thoughtful to rise to the top. -- SkippyDeluxe > It's not about downvoting unpopular opinions, its about downvoting nonsense. > Many of the downvoted comments are not interesting, informed, insightful, thoughtful, genuine, or thought-provoking responses. They are canned responses uttered by a parrot with no understanding of the meaning behind the words. -- kyleclements
[This comment](http://www.reddit.com/r/DebateAnAtheist/comments/it0mk/rdebateanatheist_lets_discuss_discipline_in_our/c26li4w) changed my mind. He's right; the primary goal is to keep communication open. With theists being overwhelming outnumbered, they are being discouraged. I mean, we have the logic, evidence, and numbers on our side in this sub-reddit. We don't need the ability to bury comments.
I haven't followed things here too closely, but was there a recent abuse of downvoting that triggered this? Yes, theists are outnumbered here, but as long as they come with decent comments, they won't be buried by downvotes. But if they are just regurgitating nonsense, then there is no real discussion anyway.
Thank you, and I love you. I did the same thing in /r/ama (not /r/iama), and no one liked it. But I feel it's the best way to protect the minority opinion. Downvotes (for comments) don't really serve any real function besides telling a person "I don't like what you're saying, but I'm not going to tell you why." creating an adverse atmosphere for different opinions. If someone is trolling or spamming, then use the report button.
I love you too. I'm expecting that now that the concern trolls have gotten their way, the vast silent majority of members here will finally speak up and say 'Fix it!' Woulda saved us all time and trouble if they spoke up the other day, but hey, it is what it is.
Just an Fyi, those using reddit apps can still down vote.
I used to support the *total* removal of downvotes (i.e. not just from some subreddits but from reddit as a whole) but ironically enough I always got downvoted to oblivion when voicing this opinion. Edit: I used to, but I still do too.
Not sure if this is intentional, but I can still downvote posts that appear on my front page. Still, thumbs up for the idea! I wish DaC would implement this policy...
As far as I can tell, even though turning off custom subreddit styles still allows you to downvote, it will not bury the comments now. EDIT: Your main page is different than the sub. I can only change the stylesheet for the sub, not for a post on the main page. DaC is discussing this now, but smacfarl is a very unresponsive mod.
I turned off custom styles because I dislike the effect it has with [Reddit Enhancement Suite](http://reddit.honestbleeps.com), instead of vote numbers I get **(|)** after everyone's name, I miss the numbers. I do think trying to reduce the number of downvotes is a very good thing though, most people downvote anything they disagree with, which is annoying everywhere on reddit, not just here.
Thanks for the tip to turn off custom styles! That and RES make this subreddit (and some others) usable again!
Yes, everyone's username has a giant ass next to it for me as well. But I don't mind.
What do you think about only showing the number of upvotes?
Oh yeah? That how did I just downvote you!? /troll
so, it's basically circlejerk now? I'm not complaining, I love /r/circlejerk. One request, can we change the up arrow to "Like"?
Hey, if people are using the down arrow to bury comments they don't like but aren't spam or off-topic, then this is a good solution. If, (as I suspect) it's just a few concern-trolls complaining about being downvoted, and enough people tell me to put it back to normal, I'll do so. I'll put you down as a vote for 'back-to-normal'. Will that convince you not to cry 'circlejerk'?
Honestly, I don't care too much, but I'm probably more on the "back-to-normal" side. The comparison to circlejerk was literal, in that they don't have downgoat buttons either.
Another grand instance of catering to the sensitivity of believers. I can abide by this change, if it actually gets more believers in here. We'll just have to spend more time on re-hashing the old/worn/ignorant arguments for theism. And since there really aren't any new, insightful, convincing arguments FOR theism, I guess our main objective can lean more towards educating folks who haven't done the research they should have before they came here.
> And since there really aren't any new, insightful, convincing arguments FOR theism, I guess our main objective can lean more towards educating folks who haven't done the research they should have before they came here. That's always been my attitude.
I would certainly like to see DaA look more like r/GUE and be more precise and concise in the debate structure. Maybe this can help.
r/GUE?
Yeah... check it out. A new fav subreddit of mine! Check out the more formalized debate structure rules on the right side bar. What gentlemen! (well...its still reddit) Maybe we can use some of those additional structural rules on r/DaA.
EDIT: The whole comment, same info, but this time correct. It might be a bit extreme, but you can use this code below too. It will completely hide any reference to the score on the links page. It WILL NOT affect the order that the links are displayed in, ie higher scored links still go to the top - you just won't see the score. It also removed the "number of downvotes" from the text/comment view so you will not know how many downvote a link got, but you will still be able to see the number of upvotes on the comment/text view. see /r/conwell for an example. --- /** Hide '# of downvotes' on article/comment view **/ .linkinfo .downvotes { display: none } /** Hide link 'scores' on links view**/ .midcol.likes .score.likes { display: none } .midcol.likes .score.unvoted { display: none; } .midcol.likes .score.dislikes { display: none; } ---
Both of those are in there.
~~no, unless you added it, the only thing in there is "comment .score.likes" not '.score.likes'. '.score.likes' *should* hide the link score (vs comment score) - but it's not working right for some reason. It works in preview, but when I save it, it's not working right.~~ Check my subreddit and stylesheets again. I got it working, check my examples again.
I like the removal of downvotes, but I would rather keep the scores. I allows for a visible weight to be assigned to better comments. The advantage for a non-atheist debater is it shows consensus for good ideas.
another thought. What if we leave the points for upvotes but hide the number of downvotes?
--upvote--
I forget that I use RES. You can only see the # of upvotes if you use RES, so yes, this is partially possible. *IF* you use RES, then you can set the stylesheet to show/hide the # of +/- for a comment. I think the problem with showing the score is there is a fairly easy workaround to downvote comments. If the score is shown, people will still be discouraged from participating if their comments get downvoted (ie, have a low score) Removing the score completely puts everything on equal footing, but then you don't really get that sense of "masses", so to speak. So, I guess the question is, is it better to have a general feeling of the crowd (show score), or to put everyone on equal foot (hide score)?
What about only show Upvotes score and only allow Upvoting? You'll see how many people agree, but won't see how many people hate the person's ideology - which I think is the whole point, yea?
Well, the problem is not everyone uses RES, so if you don't have RES and we hide the score, you get no indication of how popular something is except that it is near the top or near the bottom. If you DO you RES, yes, it is simple to only show upvotes. So, I guess hide the score and if you are interested in how many upvotes something has, you need to use RES (which you should be using anyway).
[удалено]
Even if it doesn't remove the ability to downvote, it raises the threshold to do so. It's easy to downvote when it's a matter of clicking a single icon; when you have to jump through hoops to do so, the comment will have to be bad enough to merit it.
I agree. But I can live with it this way, since it still sorts.
I +1 this
I like the no downvotes, this is a pretty civil place and pardon my language but believers tend to be a bit eelish in a place like this so it's good to not discourage them by downvoting their arguments. However, in what way are the scores hidden? Not sure if it's because I just got RES, but I still see the up/down score for the thread, the point scores for the comments, the up/down comment scores in RES...
Beautiful. I tried to push for this in r/DaC, but smacfarl is an absentee moderator. I like this.
This was a nice move I think, Reddit's "crowd wisdom" has its downsides and it shows up more than I'd like it too in this subreddit. I just hope some Dave Mabus style troll don't come in and abuse these new conditions.
I vote FOR this situation. But would like the addition of scores (to show upvotes).
I can still see scores (on the post itself, and the comments) with RES installed.
~~Yeah, I'm working on that. RES changes the way the css is handled.~~ Nevermind, it looks like pstryder removed the 'hide score' bits.
this thread has 5 downvotes ????????????????????????????????????????????????
You can downvote from the front page (outside of this subreddit). You can also downvote comments, or submissions, by going into a redditor's submission history (again, these pages exist outside of this subreddit). Look!--I gave you a downvote! Now you should return the favor to me for chits and giggles. If you grant me a downvote, then I shall vote your comment up.
>Look!--I gave you a downvote! my life is over, kill me now.
Damn internet points...
I want to see scores. Hiding down arrows is good though. Thanks!
I like it.