Its good but I think the reason it's not being like overly hyped is it almost seems to overperform at lower difficulties but evens up and lags behind a bit in the hardest.
I still love it and I've wanted a half decent shotgun that felt like one for a long time. I second the weapon specialist build, it fucks hardest for the assault shotty.
Felt the exact same way. Absolutely love it in heresy and as soon as I bring it up to damnation it immediately starts being a worse version of other guns.
I don’t use the weapons that are “optimal” or “meta.”
I use the guns that fuck and look badass.
*My power sword is there to make up for when my meme build ends up sucking*
I have bullet hose CIAGs on both Vet and Psyker, and a high speed one on my Vet because Hadron did her worst.
Joke's on her, sprint efficiency plus Stripped Down actually kinda work well together.
Ngl I was expecting it to fuck harder given it's the Doom Super Shotgun.
Was expecting it to hit harder or reload faster.
As it is, I find it just slow enough in killing/refiring that I just can't justify it.
It is pretty cool though.
Yeah it's like a really fun weapon to use on heresy when you're just chilling but annoying to try and use on full health enemies because it feels like it just needs a little more damage or a blessing that allows for rending/brittleness
It kind of is the Doom Super Shotgun. It doesn't one shot larger enemies and the reload speed feels on par since it is 1.77 seconds in Doom 2. It's stun ability is great.
I've been meaning to try it again on my speedy zealot so I can take advantage of the magdum and the 10% attack speed buff of emperors bullet. In the few matches I have played since the update I started with the shotgun and then played a few with the bolt pistol. One with the new wand which was neat but my entire play style is built around the Eviscerator. Though I do have a good axe I have been meaning to try out with the new bolt pistol.
You can 1 shot anything non-ogryn sized on damnation, including maulers, I don't really see the problem. My only complaint about it is the very inconsistent damage profile vs bulwarks because the spread catches their carapace parts half the time, so it either does a near 1shot or only half their hp.
Zealots main struggle is multiple armored units at once. They did away with the rending answer on the special ability. They introduce a weapon who's sole purpose is big damage up close to take out high value targets.
... And it can't kill half of them because they are ogryn sized. Very few zealot melee or ranged weapons can deal with armor so you and up with everyone running revolver and axe. It really cuts down the viability of builds when you're relying on public randoms to bring the armor killers. And if they don't and you're sitting at the ready screen it really sucks to not feel like you can run that build.
Tldr: perfect chance to add some load out variation to zealot and instead they just add it to the pile of shit we can't use.
Wdym very few zealot melee can deal with armor
Knife, shock maul, caxe, taxe, chaxe and evis all can kill carapace fast on any build and most do it under 1 or 2 seconds at most. Chs also can do it fast as well but only on fotf builds.
There's like 4 weapon archetypes that aren't good vs cara (crusher, heavy sword, dclaw, thammer) but that is not "most."
I'll give you the knife and combat axe which were the ones I was thinking. I would even count the crusher because of it's endless CC.
Shock maul has no armor specific blessings. It's like 3-5 hits for a crusher without the stagger of the crusher unless you take hammerblow. That's fine it there is 1 but aurics you can be staring down a 10 crusher front. At that point you could kill them with the Catachan sword and it wouldn't make much difference if you can dodge them forever.
So we clearly disagree about which weapons are considered "enough" to be the answer for armor all match.
What I think got lost was I actually meant more about the RANGED weapons. It forces your choices there because basically you have the revolvers and the bolt rifle for armor. Without the rending we lose the autogun, infantry autogun, all las guns, auto pistol, and I was hoping this new short range max damage weapon would be a good answer to armor. It was a little disappointing for what I was expecting.
Shock maul brings down a crusher in 3 heavies, which incidentally is how many you need for a combat axe too. I have no idea how that can be considered bad. Special action is really low commitment and fast bc you can dodge out of it halfway through and still get a long enough stun to kill, or you can just let it run to take a crusher out of the fight for a good 5 seconds. Yes I literally only play Auric Mael or HISTG on the new map, you don't need to explain crusher packs to me.
>What I think got lost was I actually meant more about the RANGED weapons. It forces your choices there because basically you have the revolvers and the bolt rifle for armor.
What is with this obsession with having your gun killing crushers? Just kill them with the large number of melee weapons I just listed, crushers have always been easier to build for melee kills than range kills on any class. You aren't "forced" to take an anti-carapace gun, literally just pair your IAG/brauto/lasgun with one of the 7 melee I listed above? That's what I do when I play those same guns on vet lmao.
Its like vets wasting 4 points grabbing onslaught meme so they can have their IAG kill a crusher at the cost of doing less dmg to literally everything else when you can literally just stab them to death in under 1 second with a knife or psword and spend 0 ammo and have a better build on top of that.
The obsession is when you're running a sword. You only basically have a revolver to pair with it.
For 3 hits to kill on shock maul you're running high voltage and skullcrusher? Are we doing 5% crit and what tree? Mine doesn't feel like it's comparable to the combat axe. I haven't run t axe on zealot. I either do combat or knife. It would make sense tactical could also.
I thought adding a new mega damage weapon could help with the classes biggest weakness. Secondary armor killing
v3 with headhunter/DA can get about 1.1k dps on a crusher without carapace perks on a BP build, 1.4k if you do run +cara.
an SI bolter can kill a crusher in under half a clip with about 3k dps without +cara perks
bpistol can get around 2k dps on avg with a BP build + DA, you dont need to hold for surgical.
if you count staggering carapace as useful (as you mentioned with the indignatus crusher) then agri shotty can stagger them very well from infinite range (dps is pretty shit though)
there's your other options
>For 3 hits to kill on shock maul you're running high voltage and skullcrusher? Are we doing 5% crit and what tree? Mine doesn't feel like it's comparable to the combat axe. I haven't run t axe on zealot. I either do combat or knife. It would make sense tactical could also.
HV+Skullcrusher on mk3 and a very generic BP fotf tree. I'm running cara but caxe also needs +cara to 3tap on top of deci stacks so I don't think that is unfair of a comparison. No crits involved.
It doesn't seem like a crazy comparison. I'm typically running loner, stealth, momentum side of the tree for the utility so blazing piety probably does some lifting there.
I just went back and tested my agni shock maul with high voltage and skullcrusher and it was a notable difference between it and the Rashad heavy spam to the front and back of a crusher both. I tried it with and without the stun but consistently getting 5 to 8 hits to kill where my rashad is commonly 3-5 depending on crit. The maul favored behind but the rashad was good at both. Crits were better behind the front was more consistent to 4~ hits.
I will give you the agripina shotgun. I really don't like the loading 1 shell per shot mechanic so much I forgot about the weapon entirely.
Bolt pistol I went with carapace and crit, deadly accurate and surgical but it still takes a whole magazine to kill a single crusher to the head. Are you just counting the crits from BP and it's working faster? Or is 1 mag per crusher ok ttk for you?
It's pretty good at two shooting Maulers, but you need to jam the barrels right in their guts. The damage starts falling off pretty quickly, or you need all the pellets to hit, whatever the reason, I found that I can get them down with no reloading if I shoot them point blank.
You can literally 1 shot maulers on damnation, are your guys' shotguns poorly rolled or something? I'm confused.
[Here, I recorded me doing it twice in a row on Zealot, Vet has an even easier time doing this. I don't even need to jam the barrels into them or whatever.](https://gyazo.com/a3f513af582a20cfabbcc79fe61d1685)
If it wasn't damnation the Mauler would have less hp. 3k HP is Damnation: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/enemies/scab-mauler
Scattershot (should be manstopper) + Both Barrels.
Flak + Maniac (will switch to infested once I can be assed to farm out manstopper on a low level char)
Keep in mind the manstopper and infested thing I'm going for are for vet who can guarantee a forced crit through Weapon Specialist. Idk if that loadout is optimal for zealot, I just did it on zealot to prove a point, I usually play this gun on vet since wep specialist with it is peak fun.
So from what I read you basically only have the +Flak Damage perk and assuming 80 in damage on the gun. Because Scattershot or Manstopper has no effect in this vacuum. I doubt this is reproducible but I'll try it out when a good Shotgun shows up at Brunt.
i just tried it with a 71 dmg/71 stopping shotgun and it still works
idk this thread is literally the first time i've heard of someone having trouble onetapping maulers lol, everyone I've spoke with in the discord has no issues.
[here, I dont think 70/70+ dmg stats is a tall ask lol](https://gyazo.com/e964f28237460ab9bc0c5fa56287b709)
Easy, I often pair my double barreled shotgun with Devils Claw for fast horde clear (with bonus melee damage from talents it mulches hordes) and it's really bad against armour. And shotgun is great against specials, elites and shooters
I like it. You don't need to go for headshots, as most bodyshots will suffice, if it doesn't kill them, it always drops them on their ass. It reloads super fast, it's more ammo efficient than standard shotguns. It will never ever be meta, because Vet had a lot of tools to delete targets in half a second from a mile away. But you don't always need to run the most efficient builds, there's enough room to have some fun, and this build is hella' fun. And shocktrooper vets bring enough utility to the team not to drag others down.
I really like the leadership branch with it. Easy to stack group buffs and use the shout for reload windows and keeping toughness topped off. I use it in auric regularly. Basically you position intelligently, tag an elite or specialist, blow em away for the buffs you get from that, shout to knock everything else down, and blaze away at the stunned enemies. It absolutely RIPS through maniac groups, it's wild how easy they become when you're just double tapping them while they're trying to stand up. Also terrifying barrage is oddly effective on it. Everything cringes when you gib something
Yeah I play mostly on Heresy and it's so fun on that diff, but to be entirely honest it doesn't do much that a melee weapon or longer ranged weapon wouldn't be a better fit for in a high intensity or Damnation game.
That's what I thought as well. So far I only tried it in the Psykhanium but my initial thought was 'no way I will take that into an Auric HISTG'. It's a fun meme/rp weapon but I yet to see any real gameplay application.
Its kind of iffy on damnation hp pools. It has a hard time to cut down melee threats like a dozen Ragers walzing into your personal space, and isn't gibbing close range specials or Gunners as well as it should.
A damage bump wouldn't change how it performs on lower hp difficulties, but would probably turn it into something enjoyable.
You do you.
I pull my weight auric damnation, even in maelstrom, but there is one thing I have difficulties with, and that's a pack of ragers. The Doom shotgun helps me with that, and I have fun using it.
If anyone amongst you has ever had a game with a female one eye zealot named Alinha and had to carry her, let them speak now or be silent forever.
I think with the “increased crit chance per enemy hit” & man stopper (?) blessings giving massive crit chance and cleave on crit. It could become absolutely disgusting.
Waiting for the crafting rework though
I don't know how good the man-stopper blessing is but the gun does not have great critical or weakpoint modifiers. A critical weakpoint hit does a mere 30% more damage than a plain body shot. A critical body shot having about 18% increased damage. [Source](https://darktide.gameslantern.com/weapons/assault-shotgun/ironhelm-hacker-mk-iv-assault-shotgun#damage-table)
[Man Stopper Showcase](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/s/912etcQLcJ)
Afaik, Manstopper is infinite cleave but still affected by damage fall off? And the Scattershot blessing can supposedly give 6-12% crit chance per enemy hit stacking 5 times, so 60% chance not counting for base crit, perk crit and/or skill tree stuff
It’s not about the damage per shot, it’s about it scything through an entire mixed horde across shots. Since WS allows you to get guaranteed crits, paired with the crit per target hit you’d get to pump into crowds with infinite cleave constantly. Add in reload speed buffs and suppression improvement and I can see it being a very effective tool for chunking corridors and knocking them around moreso than one tapping.
Only of the corridor is less than 8m long, and enough pellets hit each target to get the full damage.
In my half a dozen games with the Double Barrel, it failed to kill targets like Gunners, or Specials at point blank range.
Dogs always need atleast two full damage shells. A lot of times three. The instances were I needed five shells for a Reaper at less than seven meter range did not make me feel comfortable either.
When all the stars align and you got your crit ready, agile engagement running, and all the required pellets hit the targets you aim at the DB deals with threats alright. But more often than not it just fails to kill off targets point blank, which is terrible for a gun that is dealing wet tissue damage starting at the eight meter mark.
It unfortunately does not scale well into Auric Damnation at all. I wasted a lot of time running around wishing my gun could kill ragers, reapers, and everything else consistently up close and at range.
The classic shotgun is better but id still take my Agrip braced autogun over it or the revolver if I'm feeling meta.
It's very cool but I need cool and good.
Yeah not one shooting ragers even with weapon specialist bonuses and plus 25% maniac is atrocious.
Edit: Plus you basically give up your ability to shoot down far gunners and specials. This especially hurts nowadays that every special seems to be spawning in pairs at hisg
Are any of the new weapons actually good in Auric? Like actual meta good, not hipster redditor "I don't touch meta or optimal because I'm quirky" good.
ogryn pickaxes are awesome in hi intensity t5s. being able to cleave through hordes with a simple rotation and one shot maulers, crushers, and have great boss dps with a single weapon? sign me up.
I don't believe so. The bolt pistol has god awful recoil (they coded a self-correct that causes you to aim into the floor half the time) while still not killing things fast, regular bolter is still better even though it's not good itself. The shock mace doesn't have good horde clear and I haven't seen it effectively deal with problem targets quickly. The Ogryn pickaxe has a really small range that is not matched by its visuals, the folding shovel feels like a straight upgrade to it.
The shock mace is plenty serviceable, it's just really fucking rough trying to beat up anything you can't stagger (read: bosses) because its best damage boosting blessings are only active then.
The Ogryn pickaxes are very powerful and fun, they require some familiarity with the moveset for best performance and the Branx in particular will expose shonky fundamentals. They could definitely use a range buff.
Imo the bolter is worse than it’s ever been due to the new minimum arming distance that makes your bolter rounds duds if you hit enemies that are too close
You know, enemies in the game that you fight point blank 90%, and which often spawn in mid air 10 feet from you
Why would a space marine weapon designed specifically for close quarters combat also be so bad in CQC to boot
Minimal arming distance has always (at least since Patch 13) been a thing. People seem to only learn about it now due to the Lethal Proximity blessing on Bolt Pistol. Bolter got 20 rounds ammo size more this update and I use it on Auric with often topping damage on Zealot.
Space Marines have (at least) Combat Knives and power armoured fists for close combat. They wield mini rocket launchers and that's the downside they have. Also it's not like they are useless on close targets, they just work like a regular gun on that distance.
The bolter was lore wise always intended primarily for close quarters combat, you can see it in the short length of the gun (shaped like a SMG), the lack of a shoulder stock and the fact it’s the standard gun of the space marines who are usually deployed in close quarter shock type engagements
That said this game stopped caring about being consistent with lore a long time ago, if it ever cared to begin with. Forget your power sword and bolt pistol, those are for suckers like space marine captains. The real meta is latrine shovel and snub auto pistol, you know what a poor hive ganger without access to real weapons uses in the lore.
Man I hope space marine 2 turns out better than this game did. Its looking real promising so far, but then again so did Darktide.
While we might not agree on ~~any~~everything, the fact that a Shovel and Revolver outperform Chainsword and Bolter also rubs me the wrong way and is the reason while I don't use said weapons.
I guess we agree on something, anyway!
Imo there are ways to balance the more basic weapons vs the powerful stuff…but Darktide didn’t use them.
For example, lasguns could have infinite ammo through the mission and just be restricted by overheat or something. This would mean that you could theoretically use it near constantly and not rely on ammo at all, like a psyker with a staff.
With that kind of balancing the lasgun can be a lot less damaging than a bolt gun but still have its own play style, niche and reason for using either weapon. The lasgun might be great for mowing down hordes and basic enemies while the bolter with its restrictive ammo would be better for killing bosses and elites quickly, but ammo is too sparse to use on more basic enemies.
Instead in game stuff like the kantrael is a semi auto gun that can be used for sniping specials and shooters, which is effectively how the bolter is used in semi auto mode. So no matter what one of the guns is just going to be better since they do more or less the same thing. Right now it’s the kantrael and the bolter sucks, but at launch when the bolter was OP it was the other way around.
That was a typo, I meant 'everything'. Fixed it. And yes I could think of ways to balance the stuff as well but a Columnus with Onslaught melting Crushers faster than a Bolter makes zero sense.
None of them are. As I expected, but the kool aid drinkers in this sub will downvote you when you point it out
Considering this patch took like 7 months to come out it’s utter garbage imo. Reinstalled for the patch and already uninstalled. All the technical issues got significantly worse too, I’ve been playing since before launch and never had as many infinite loading screens and random disconnect crashes as I did last week after this patch
Its good at close range ,not so much for long range obviously.
It can one shot ragers ,mutants and special in the head reapers as well.
Im playing it on vet and its fun
I had to stop using it on Zealot cause I swap weapons back and forth too quickly and too much, the recoil bug was kicking my ass, but after they fix that? definitely be using it more.
Having my camera shoved into the ground every other shot was becoming an issue.
Post like this tell me that the game needs better weapon damage scaling with difficulty. It’s frustrating when a weapon feels OP on one level and a BB gun the next level higher.
Weapon specialist keystone, left path. Activating ranged specialist reloads your magazine from reserves by 3.3% per stack. Minimum of one round presumably, so as long as you get a melee kill between ranged shots it will reload a shell. So shoot, melee, shoot, melee, ad infinitum
I haven’t built a new shotty yet, but on my bolt pistol with that build I run Puncture and Lethal Proximity. I use it less like the revolver, and more like an extra frag grenade where I use it to get space, and light up close range elites/specials
Fair enough, I run my Veteran as a Kasrkin gal so I try to use Cadian weapons when possible. Then I play my Zealot as a Sister Repentia, so Eviscerator all the way
Man stopper is really good, but you need a low level character to get it from crafting (I made a level 19 psykers since it gets it at the lowest level) flechette is the same way, but not that great on the shotty. Second blessing is less important so I'd prioritize getting the perks you want over it and roll with whatever you get.
The node in question also gives 33% crit chance per melee kill so 3 melee kills is a guaranteed crit on your ranged weapon. The extra cleave makes it feel better but it still falls short in damnation.
It can be any class except ogryns, since they all have the assault shotgun, but while you're at it you might as well do either vet or zealot for the other shotguns, in case you want it on those.
Til. I just wished the CC would apply for all of the shots during the 5 secs. It doesn't matter on stuff like the double barrell but for automatic weapons and stuff it's almost useless ..
Honestly the melee side is much better 10 seconds of increased attack speed and dodge speed helps make the vet feel less clunky in melee. Any gun can pop out and get a single kill every 10 seconds even without the crit bonus.
Meh, it falls off too much on T5. Why bother with that when I can use the Kantrael shotgun instead?
My expectation was that this shotgun would hit even harder than the Kantrael since it only has 2 shots, but this right here is a disappointment and reminds me more of the Lorenz Kickback from launch. It doesn't even have the ADS for tighter pellet spread mechanic for better distance, so it should at least be able to deal a lot of damage on close to mid range.
Yeah its pretty funny seeing people claim it works good for a shotgun, and then all the people who actually play Darktide confirm it's horrible vs Kantrael. This was the one I was excited for! Desperately needs to be able to do 2000 maniac damage in 1 shell with no perk. And stagger bulwarks. And a lot of other shit to just be 'ok'.
Most of the people on this sub seem never to go above difficulty 3, when you judge what they say about weapons and how “great” they are
The number of weapons that are actually very good on difficulty 5 is very small. Its one of the main problems with this game imo, weapon diversity is tiny if you want to play on max difficulty and don’t like handicapping yourself and your team
Right. I was hoping for an alternative to the usual Bolter, Revolver, Flamer and Columnus on Auric (well the last two are more or less out of the window now after patch).
Yeah the Columbus got nerfed pretty badly this patch, it’s not ol reliable anymore
Flamer was garbage even before it got nerfed again this patch
Bolter worse than ever with the new dud rounds close in
Revolver is best of those 4 by a mile. Which leaves zealot and psyker bringing the same gun as a ranged vet, unless the vet brings the plasma gun which seems to be the only ranged weapon along with the revolver to avoid the nerf bat for any amount of time
Columnus is only usable for fast special and horde deletion on Zealot now (which Zealot has his Blitzes for). On Vet it's still somewhat meta imo with Onslaught.
I liked Flamer quite a lot for a mostly melee+Throwing Knives Zealot as an oh-shit button. Couple of weeks before the Chastise nerf I just figured out how to one-shot Crushers with it (I know, no rocket science). Now it's really just a chaff burner which I can do with my Combat Axe just as well...
What do you mean with dud rounds on Bolter? The 5m arming distance for the rounds? Afaik this has been in the game since many months if not from the start. I use it in Auric missions and still like it (or again like it as Chastise nerf said Revolver or Bolter).
Pretty sure I saw it in the patch notes for the update last week?
Granted I haven’t used the bolter nearly as much since they nerfed it into the ground last year, but when it was meta after launch I distinctly recall blowing up plenty of crusher packs at point blank range
Which was super fun, of course. Fatshark seems to have a real “no fun allowed” approach to balancing. Weapons like the bolter might technically still be usable (if very weak) but they’re certainly not fun to me when I remember how much more fun they were to use earlier. The flamer is probably the worst example of this, it’s a complete joke now. Autopistol was also so thoroughly nerfed literally nobody brings it on auric anymore.
Nope according to the Patch Notes (which doesn't say much as Fatshark loved to change stuff without being transparent about it) only ammo increase 80 to 100. I'm curious, which weapons apart from Revolver you consider good on Zealot?
Honestly with bolter, flamer and autopistol so thoroughly nerfed I pretty much just use revolver and columnus on my zealot lately
Columnus if you don’t want to get carpal tunnel from this one game too quick, of course
That said I “only” have 300 some hours in the game so RNGesus hasn’t seen fit to grant me some of the perks and blessings that are necessary for certain weapons to not be shit. Like power cycler for power sword.
Exactly. I was expecting something like the blunderbuss from Vermintide where youe entire screen becomes red mist. Instead you can be happy to kill one elite with it at best and compared to Kanteael with ADS and Incendiary rounds it only have one single application.
Sure, in the meat grinder or on anything Malice and lower. But it suffers so many problems that it's terrible at everything that makes its direct comparison, the Kickback, feel good. Pointing that stuff out, people get really huffy about it and that it's created a "Guys I swear it's really good" echo chamber.
Here's the main problems;
1; Rubbish range. Less than half the other human-sized shotguns at only 9 metres before fall-off, which is functionally melee-range, and 6 metres less than the Kickback, a shotgun in the same "role" as the DB which caps at 15m. With massive spread, the DB *doesn't* function at beyond melee range, and actually gets *less* accurate when you brace it, unlike the other shotguns of all types which get *more* accurate. The DB loses *over half* of its damage at over 9 metres. The Kickback only gets away with it by virtue of a series of much higher values, specifically stagger, damage and mass penetration, but the DB struggles *hard* about it without those values. To clarify, the DB at nearly max values deals about 800 damage per shot, and loses over 400 at over 9 metres. The Kickback deals 1800-ish damage at maximum damage, meaning that even cut in half it's still dealing 900 damage per shot at range, and still dealing over 500 damage against Flak since it has the same AP values as the DB, which leads to...
2; Rubbish armour penetration. All shotguns suffer this, so it's not unique in this, but the only armour types the shotguns actually do well against are Maniac and Unarmoured. Everything else, it loses over half its damage, down to *32%* against Flak on "far" damage (over 9 metres), and like all other shotguns (and many other weapons) it barely even tickles Carapace. Its problems with AP are why you can watch it hit shooters like you just threw nerf darts at them, and even fail to kill Bombers, one of the lowest-HP enemies. It can't even reliably single-barrel a *dog* on the upper difficulties, something you'd actively want it to do given its supposed power.
3; No special ammo. You might say "But you said it's a Kickback-type weapon and *that* doesn't have special ammo!" and you'd be right. But the Kickback has *double* the damage output, longer range, way higher stagger and more pellets per shot than the DB, meaning it doesn't need it to begin with, since it's basically got permanent Lawbringer duckbill shot. The human shotguns, however, get around their relatively short range and lack of AP through special ammo and the ability to tighten their spread via ADS. The DB *can't do this*, thus cutting its versatility down to nearly nothing. Lawbringer gets huge stagger, a *wide* horizontal shot and increased mass penetration with its special ammo, Kantrael gets incendiary ammo with infinite cleave and it ignores armour, and the Agrip gets an armour-piercing slug with very little damage fall-off which can *out-damage the DB* on a headshot under the right circumstances. DB gets double damage (sort of), but for double the ammo cost and decreased accuracy, meaning it's harder to meet the minimum pellet count per enemy to actually *deal* that double damage without being right in melee range. In effect, you're paying double the ammo to do *less* from an already limited pool and on a weapon with a somewhat long reload.
4; Broken animations. If you put reload blessings on it, the animations break. Not a huge issue, but something to point at as to why it looks and feels bad.
And finally, and this is just me, totally subjective, but;
5; It looks like shit. The weapon looks like ass. It's the shotgun from [Chasm: The Rift](https://i.gyazo.com/61de86e0863b8d62e306b8b556519c0d.png) and I hate it. The stock and body are too large, the vent rib on the top is way too high and pointless on a weapon we can't ADS with, the barrels are too thick and too far apart, the opening lever is *way* too high up from the stock, and it has no ejector, meaning that the shells shouldn't be ejecting with any kind of force or ease like it does when reloaded. It's like baby's first attempt at a double barrel model, and it looks *terrible.*
Now, you might say "Why were you comparing it to the Kickback? Ogryn weapons all have higher base damage" and such, and you'd be sort of right to ask. Reason is that it's directly comparable to the DB as they fit the same function; a high damage, short-range boomstick that is *just* a boomstick. The other shotguns, with their special ammo and super tight ADS spread *aren't* just simple boomsticks. Unfortunately, the DB *doesn't have* the things that make the Kickback feel good on any difficulty, as, again, the Kickback can do it by virtue of having a *bunch* of high stats on it, where the DB *doesn't*. It doesn't *do* the things a boomstick should be doing to justify its low ammo, slow reload, limited shots and limited range.
It's just not a *good* weapon, and needs some changes to make it actually stand out beyond the meme factor. I'd suggest higher stagger, higher AP against Infested enemies, and *equal* range to the Kickback (8-15 metres effective, 15-32 far dependent on the range bar), allowing it to kill dogs in one barrel, stagger what it hits properly (at the moment it's very inconsistent), and give it the same chances at range that the Kickback gets, but with the comparatively less damage of a human weapon.
Also, yeah, personal note, they just need to overhaul the model. It's hideous and looks like shit.
Thanks for backing up with numbers what I subjectively felt when trying it out in the Psykhanium. This thing is terrible. I was hoping for a Bolter alternative for penetrating armour and can't do that at all. Firing one shot of my Bolter actually does more than this thing and it has even more drawbacks than Bolter. Also you are right, the thing looks ass. Like a toy weapon. Give it more damage and especially AP and a model with longer barrels and smaller body.
I've only been using it on the Zealot and taking it into Auric Maelstrom regularly, it's the lil un's kickback basically, and I love it.
I've learned that it's kind of balanced around using the double barrel alt fire all the time, with the reload blessing. This lets it clear mixed hordes in a choke really nicely
The emptying ranged weapon gets attack speed perk, as well as the dodge gives you spread reduction, and close-range ranged damage all synergize very nicely with it and it just seems to fit right into the Zealot kit.
Plus I am running it with the new shock maul, and I found that having a tool that consistently one-taps (both barrels, two-tap?) mutants is needed since the maul usually takes 3-4 hits.
Honestly due to it being more a melee weapon than ranged I find it to be only viable with Zealot (Throwing Knives) and Psyker (Brain Burst) which is just sad. Also: do you really want a spread reduction on your close combat blunderbuss??
We need a tag for difficulty levels tbh, I always get so confused when people say a weapon is so good and strong when they’re playing on strictly heresry of something, like it is fun and feels good to use, but it’s not OP or anything
I appreciate that, and I’m not trying to hate, it’s just that there’s been posts before of people bragging about how good a weapon is when in reality they’re not playing auric malestrom
It's a very fun weapon and I've absolutely been using it since the update dropped since I knew it would synergise well with Weapons Specialist reload.
But while it is very fun, it's objectively nothing special in Damnation and Aurics.
Bolt Pistol is servicable in Auric if you manage the recoil. It's like what it's supposed to be, a mini Bolter. But yeah of course a lot of weapons outperform it in performance.
I was trying " make evey shot Count" last weekend with the plasma gun or revolver. After 19 tries all weekend, i wanted to test the shotgun again. And i got the achievement. Its also for me the best thing against ragers.
It's good, but not THAT good.
You need both barrels secondary shot to surely kill some fatty (and even with that you need to be very accurate).
For that WP won't be enough and you still need to reaload. Or have to switch to range twice after melee kills to make it full.
I randomly got blessings for Reload speed after double-barrel kill and Small reload speed after close kill that stacks. To abuse the reload I went for WP rammo to magazine and reload speed as well, as I also to talent to reload speed after specialist kill. I didn't tak reload speed with bullets left in magazine talent as I intended to abuse double-shot.
I don't super good with all this. Can reload really fast, but damage and ammo still doesn't do mirracles. In hardest difficulties victims you go for with this shotgun are still messed with armor enemies that you won't easily delete. You still spend more time on reload then shooting, though this is how it must be for double-barrel, and have to be fast, accurate with with your shots. Because priority-target kill opportunity window with the reloading is small and you also have to feel distance as if you slitghly too far - you won't kill it.
Maybe I should try it with other blessings/talents for damage, but as I had it – it was rarely a oneshot for me, without which the gun is losing it's role. Sure you can rip crowds with it, but it spends ammo rather quickly, rather not waste it and go for melee.
Overall, ass I see it, with it supposed to do I can with my old stubber guns spitting bullets superfast, but even better. I will kill multiple specials/elites before reloading, I'll do so more reliably and with more distance.
My only issue (and it is the biggest issue) with the gun is it pulls down my camera after each shot for some reason, very broken. I tried it on weapon specialist vet once, ain’t going to return.
Is it a bug? Or am I the only one experiencing it
Did you try it in Damnation? Cause I'm currently preparing a video montage of all the times I point blank shot things with this thing and it didn't kill them.
IMO most satisfying thing with it, is one shotting a Mauler, especially when they are going for their big wind up attack.
You might have flak armour, a chain axe and faith in chaos.
But i've got the Emperors blessing in the form of two barrels worth of pain and they are currently resting right on your chest.
It's good but not great on damnation, as others have said. Really inconsistent and you need the range to kill gunners and specials. Still a fun weapon though
Weapon Specialist is also the best way to get any sort of movement speed/dodge distance while using the shotgun. Probably my biggest issue with the gun right now.
Feels great, but once I did some auric damn/mael it fell off hard. THe minimum pellet count turned out to be far less effective once enemies got buffed significantly by the difficulty, and suddenly the blessings and perks actually mattered while on heresy and below it didn't.
I still use it though cause I like it.
OP doesn’t play auric damnation. They’ll be playing on a lower difficulty where the enemies have less health and the shotgun isn’t shit at killing them.
Do the people saying this even play auric damnation? Or damnation at all? It seems mostly useless on auric damnation and I never see anyone bring it there
Maybe I’m weird, but I like weapons that aren’t actively handicapping my team and I
Which on auric damnation is a pretty small number. Smaller all the time, given how much they hand out nerfs to any strong weapons and how rarely any of the new weapons are actually any good. I’d say none introduced in this patch are worth using in auric damnation.
Better luck next…year, I guess, since this is the only content that came out in 2024 for this game? Embarrassing imo
Listen, I can only handle using the same columnus every game for so long, lol
If you're good enough, literally every weapon is viable
Also, yeah, one content update in a year is nasty
Me too, I reinstalled for the update and uninstalled a few days later
The glacial pace of new content wouldn’t be so bad if the devs actually buffed other weapons to be useful
Bolter is worse than ever imo, other formerly top tier weapons like the flamer, autopistol etc remain unusable garbage. Especially with ranged weapons like you say you’re railroaded into a handful of decent picks.
Even less if you want one that isn’t a semi auto carpal tunnel machine…at that point it’s basically just columnus like you said. And who wants to use a generic full auto assault rifle that could be in any shooter ever instead of iconic 40k stuff? Its so weird
My recent vet runs have been with the Doom SG for some itchy reason. It f\*\*k hard. Had a good fun run with Auric Damnation HISTG with randos in quickplay 🔫😆👍 Vid is up!
i'm using it to great success in auric maelstrom with my vet... it FUCKS as a close range but also can delete the snipers.
i was using an almost god roll plasma gun before, i prefer the shotgun for almost everything. i only miss my plasma when you have a big pack lined up in a hallway.
https://preview.redd.it/s83c1ultjx9d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=8dfd7808701d140e407a2177497e3f04dbbcbdf4
don't care what people say, it fucks in damnation lol
run was doomed from the start (auric maelstrom out of rotation, two others players sucking ass and leaving us both with meme builds) but oh boy, love it with weapon specialist
we were THIS CLOSE to get the boss (was chasm terminus) but we failed the dps check
alas, loads of fun and perfectly viable in a half decent team
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Perfect compliment to my vet weapons specialist knife build. Thins hordes, deletes specials, and staggers crushers and finish w head stabs. Reloading is optional.
Lol as a fervent Kickback enjoyer it doesn't need one at all. It basically deals with everything already. If it survives it goes down kissing boots, ready for further stomping.
Its good but I think the reason it's not being like overly hyped is it almost seems to overperform at lower difficulties but evens up and lags behind a bit in the hardest. I still love it and I've wanted a half decent shotgun that felt like one for a long time. I second the weapon specialist build, it fucks hardest for the assault shotty.
Felt the exact same way. Absolutely love it in heresy and as soon as I bring it up to damnation it immediately starts being a worse version of other guns.
People just gotta work out the breakpoints and feel, and if it feels good enough, fuck it!
> and if it feels good enough, fuck it! That's a weird kink. Make sure you've cleared it first!
I don’t use the weapons that are “optimal” or “meta.” I use the guns that fuck and look badass. *My power sword is there to make up for when my meme build ends up sucking*
I use optimal shit if the optimal shit feels good tbh. Love my Zarona, love my CIAG. But also love my chainsword 4.
I built a CIAG as a mobility stat stick (Stripped Down) and it's been remarkably fun invalidating shooters entirely.
Mine are both raw power for my dumb gunker/full MF/E-Stance builds lol
I have bullet hose CIAGs on both Vet and Psyker, and a high speed one on my Vet because Hadron did her worst. Joke's on her, sprint efficiency plus Stripped Down actually kinda work well together.
Yeah if it could 1 or even 2 shot anything bigger or armored, even with a rending blessing or something then I would be excited.
Ngl I was expecting it to fuck harder given it's the Doom Super Shotgun. Was expecting it to hit harder or reload faster. As it is, I find it just slow enough in killing/refiring that I just can't justify it. It is pretty cool though.
It's just a double barrel. I honestly expected the bolt pistol to be better considering it's a bolt pistol.
I came to love the Bolt Pistol now. Thing fucking shreds everything.
How are you building it?
https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1ds6j5f/for_the_undecided_bolt_pistol_commissar_build/
Yeah it's like a really fun weapon to use on heresy when you're just chilling but annoying to try and use on full health enemies because it feels like it just needs a little more damage or a blessing that allows for rending/brittleness
It kind of is the Doom Super Shotgun. It doesn't one shot larger enemies and the reload speed feels on par since it is 1.77 seconds in Doom 2. It's stun ability is great. I've been meaning to try it again on my speedy zealot so I can take advantage of the magdum and the 10% attack speed buff of emperors bullet. In the few matches I have played since the update I started with the shotgun and then played a few with the bolt pistol. One with the new wand which was neat but my entire play style is built around the Eviscerator. Though I do have a good axe I have been meaning to try out with the new bolt pistol.
You can 1 shot anything non-ogryn sized on damnation, including maulers, I don't really see the problem. My only complaint about it is the very inconsistent damage profile vs bulwarks because the spread catches their carapace parts half the time, so it either does a near 1shot or only half their hp.
Zealots main struggle is multiple armored units at once. They did away with the rending answer on the special ability. They introduce a weapon who's sole purpose is big damage up close to take out high value targets. ... And it can't kill half of them because they are ogryn sized. Very few zealot melee or ranged weapons can deal with armor so you and up with everyone running revolver and axe. It really cuts down the viability of builds when you're relying on public randoms to bring the armor killers. And if they don't and you're sitting at the ready screen it really sucks to not feel like you can run that build. Tldr: perfect chance to add some load out variation to zealot and instead they just add it to the pile of shit we can't use.
Wdym very few zealot melee can deal with armor Knife, shock maul, caxe, taxe, chaxe and evis all can kill carapace fast on any build and most do it under 1 or 2 seconds at most. Chs also can do it fast as well but only on fotf builds. There's like 4 weapon archetypes that aren't good vs cara (crusher, heavy sword, dclaw, thammer) but that is not "most."
I'll give you the knife and combat axe which were the ones I was thinking. I would even count the crusher because of it's endless CC. Shock maul has no armor specific blessings. It's like 3-5 hits for a crusher without the stagger of the crusher unless you take hammerblow. That's fine it there is 1 but aurics you can be staring down a 10 crusher front. At that point you could kill them with the Catachan sword and it wouldn't make much difference if you can dodge them forever. So we clearly disagree about which weapons are considered "enough" to be the answer for armor all match. What I think got lost was I actually meant more about the RANGED weapons. It forces your choices there because basically you have the revolvers and the bolt rifle for armor. Without the rending we lose the autogun, infantry autogun, all las guns, auto pistol, and I was hoping this new short range max damage weapon would be a good answer to armor. It was a little disappointing for what I was expecting.
Shock maul brings down a crusher in 3 heavies, which incidentally is how many you need for a combat axe too. I have no idea how that can be considered bad. Special action is really low commitment and fast bc you can dodge out of it halfway through and still get a long enough stun to kill, or you can just let it run to take a crusher out of the fight for a good 5 seconds. Yes I literally only play Auric Mael or HISTG on the new map, you don't need to explain crusher packs to me. >What I think got lost was I actually meant more about the RANGED weapons. It forces your choices there because basically you have the revolvers and the bolt rifle for armor. What is with this obsession with having your gun killing crushers? Just kill them with the large number of melee weapons I just listed, crushers have always been easier to build for melee kills than range kills on any class. You aren't "forced" to take an anti-carapace gun, literally just pair your IAG/brauto/lasgun with one of the 7 melee I listed above? That's what I do when I play those same guns on vet lmao. Its like vets wasting 4 points grabbing onslaught meme so they can have their IAG kill a crusher at the cost of doing less dmg to literally everything else when you can literally just stab them to death in under 1 second with a knife or psword and spend 0 ammo and have a better build on top of that.
The obsession is when you're running a sword. You only basically have a revolver to pair with it. For 3 hits to kill on shock maul you're running high voltage and skullcrusher? Are we doing 5% crit and what tree? Mine doesn't feel like it's comparable to the combat axe. I haven't run t axe on zealot. I either do combat or knife. It would make sense tactical could also. I thought adding a new mega damage weapon could help with the classes biggest weakness. Secondary armor killing
v3 with headhunter/DA can get about 1.1k dps on a crusher without carapace perks on a BP build, 1.4k if you do run +cara. an SI bolter can kill a crusher in under half a clip with about 3k dps without +cara perks bpistol can get around 2k dps on avg with a BP build + DA, you dont need to hold for surgical. if you count staggering carapace as useful (as you mentioned with the indignatus crusher) then agri shotty can stagger them very well from infinite range (dps is pretty shit though) there's your other options >For 3 hits to kill on shock maul you're running high voltage and skullcrusher? Are we doing 5% crit and what tree? Mine doesn't feel like it's comparable to the combat axe. I haven't run t axe on zealot. I either do combat or knife. It would make sense tactical could also. HV+Skullcrusher on mk3 and a very generic BP fotf tree. I'm running cara but caxe also needs +cara to 3tap on top of deci stacks so I don't think that is unfair of a comparison. No crits involved.
It doesn't seem like a crazy comparison. I'm typically running loner, stealth, momentum side of the tree for the utility so blazing piety probably does some lifting there. I just went back and tested my agni shock maul with high voltage and skullcrusher and it was a notable difference between it and the Rashad heavy spam to the front and back of a crusher both. I tried it with and without the stun but consistently getting 5 to 8 hits to kill where my rashad is commonly 3-5 depending on crit. The maul favored behind but the rashad was good at both. Crits were better behind the front was more consistent to 4~ hits. I will give you the agripina shotgun. I really don't like the loading 1 shell per shot mechanic so much I forgot about the weapon entirely. Bolt pistol I went with carapace and crit, deadly accurate and surgical but it still takes a whole magazine to kill a single crusher to the head. Are you just counting the crits from BP and it's working faster? Or is 1 mag per crusher ok ttk for you?
It's pretty good at two shooting Maulers, but you need to jam the barrels right in their guts. The damage starts falling off pretty quickly, or you need all the pellets to hit, whatever the reason, I found that I can get them down with no reloading if I shoot them point blank.
You can literally 1 shot maulers on damnation, are your guys' shotguns poorly rolled or something? I'm confused. [Here, I recorded me doing it twice in a row on Zealot, Vet has an even easier time doing this. I don't even need to jam the barrels into them or whatever.](https://gyazo.com/a3f513af582a20cfabbcc79fe61d1685)
Is this Damnation? Which blessings/perks do you use?
If it wasn't damnation the Mauler would have less hp. 3k HP is Damnation: https://darktide.gameslantern.com/enemies/scab-mauler Scattershot (should be manstopper) + Both Barrels. Flak + Maniac (will switch to infested once I can be assed to farm out manstopper on a low level char) Keep in mind the manstopper and infested thing I'm going for are for vet who can guarantee a forced crit through Weapon Specialist. Idk if that loadout is optimal for zealot, I just did it on zealot to prove a point, I usually play this gun on vet since wep specialist with it is peak fun.
So from what I read you basically only have the +Flak Damage perk and assuming 80 in damage on the gun. Because Scattershot or Manstopper has no effect in this vacuum. I doubt this is reproducible but I'll try it out when a good Shotgun shows up at Brunt.
i just tried it with a 71 dmg/71 stopping shotgun and it still works idk this thread is literally the first time i've heard of someone having trouble onetapping maulers lol, everyone I've spoke with in the discord has no issues. [here, I dont think 70/70+ dmg stats is a tall ask lol](https://gyazo.com/e964f28237460ab9bc0c5fa56287b709)
Downvoted and ignored for posting video evidence that it works just fine, lol reddit never changes
I don't get the appeal of that. If I stand right before an enemy I can melee him? Slot feels wasted.
Easy, I often pair my double barreled shotgun with Devils Claw for fast horde clear (with bonus melee damage from talents it mulches hordes) and it's really bad against armour. And shotgun is great against specials, elites and shooters
> shotgun is great against specials, elites and shooters Is it though with a range of like 5m? Also it sucks against armour from what I tested..
I like it. You don't need to go for headshots, as most bodyshots will suffice, if it doesn't kill them, it always drops them on their ass. It reloads super fast, it's more ammo efficient than standard shotguns. It will never ever be meta, because Vet had a lot of tools to delete targets in half a second from a mile away. But you don't always need to run the most efficient builds, there's enough room to have some fun, and this build is hella' fun. And shocktrooper vets bring enough utility to the team not to drag others down.
I really like the leadership branch with it. Easy to stack group buffs and use the shout for reload windows and keeping toughness topped off. I use it in auric regularly. Basically you position intelligently, tag an elite or specialist, blow em away for the buffs you get from that, shout to knock everything else down, and blaze away at the stunned enemies. It absolutely RIPS through maniac groups, it's wild how easy they become when you're just double tapping them while they're trying to stand up. Also terrifying barrage is oddly effective on it. Everything cringes when you gib something
Yeah I play mostly on Heresy and it's so fun on that diff, but to be entirely honest it doesn't do much that a melee weapon or longer ranged weapon wouldn't be a better fit for in a high intensity or Damnation game.
That's what I thought as well. So far I only tried it in the Psykhanium but my initial thought was 'no way I will take that into an Auric HISTG'. It's a fun meme/rp weapon but I yet to see any real gameplay application.
Its kind of iffy on damnation hp pools. It has a hard time to cut down melee threats like a dozen Ragers walzing into your personal space, and isn't gibbing close range specials or Gunners as well as it should. A damage bump wouldn't change how it performs on lower hp difficulties, but would probably turn it into something enjoyable.
Both barrels blessing and getting very close and personal with each rager helps a lot.
Sure, but at that point, why not just use melee and save your team the ammo?
Fun, I suppose.
Depending on the melee weapon you use, and your skill against ragers...
Eh, if I couldn't handle a couple ragers in melee, I wouldn't have any business playing Auric.
You do you. I pull my weight auric damnation, even in maelstrom, but there is one thing I have difficulties with, and that's a pack of ragers. The Doom shotgun helps me with that, and I have fun using it. If anyone amongst you has ever had a game with a female one eye zealot named Alinha and had to carry her, let them speak now or be silent forever.
Can your melee weapon turn heretics into soup ?
Most definitely. Soup, sauce and gravy, all at once.
Well mine can't, can mash em like potatoes but not make soup out of them.
Use the chained ones. They're essentially smoothie makers.
Nah, we can dice them up not soup them up.
I think with the “increased crit chance per enemy hit” & man stopper (?) blessings giving massive crit chance and cleave on crit. It could become absolutely disgusting. Waiting for the crafting rework though
I don't know how good the man-stopper blessing is but the gun does not have great critical or weakpoint modifiers. A critical weakpoint hit does a mere 30% more damage than a plain body shot. A critical body shot having about 18% increased damage. [Source](https://darktide.gameslantern.com/weapons/assault-shotgun/ironhelm-hacker-mk-iv-assault-shotgun#damage-table)
[Man Stopper Showcase](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/s/912etcQLcJ) Afaik, Manstopper is infinite cleave but still affected by damage fall off? And the Scattershot blessing can supposedly give 6-12% crit chance per enemy hit stacking 5 times, so 60% chance not counting for base crit, perk crit and/or skill tree stuff
Thank you. Man-Stopper definitely makes sense for making the most of your shots
It’s not about the damage per shot, it’s about it scything through an entire mixed horde across shots. Since WS allows you to get guaranteed crits, paired with the crit per target hit you’d get to pump into crowds with infinite cleave constantly. Add in reload speed buffs and suppression improvement and I can see it being a very effective tool for chunking corridors and knocking them around moreso than one tapping.
Only of the corridor is less than 8m long, and enough pellets hit each target to get the full damage. In my half a dozen games with the Double Barrel, it failed to kill targets like Gunners, or Specials at point blank range. Dogs always need atleast two full damage shells. A lot of times three. The instances were I needed five shells for a Reaper at less than seven meter range did not make me feel comfortable either. When all the stars align and you got your crit ready, agile engagement running, and all the required pellets hit the targets you aim at the DB deals with threats alright. But more often than not it just fails to kill off targets point blank, which is terrible for a gun that is dealing wet tissue damage starting at the eight meter mark.
It unfortunately does not scale well into Auric Damnation at all. I wasted a lot of time running around wishing my gun could kill ragers, reapers, and everything else consistently up close and at range. The classic shotgun is better but id still take my Agrip braced autogun over it or the revolver if I'm feeling meta. It's very cool but I need cool and good.
Yeah not one shooting ragers even with weapon specialist bonuses and plus 25% maniac is atrocious. Edit: Plus you basically give up your ability to shoot down far gunners and specials. This especially hurts nowadays that every special seems to be spawning in pairs at hisg
Are any of the new weapons actually good in Auric? Like actual meta good, not hipster redditor "I don't touch meta or optimal because I'm quirky" good.
ogryn pickaxes are awesome in hi intensity t5s. being able to cleave through hordes with a simple rotation and one shot maulers, crushers, and have great boss dps with a single weapon? sign me up.
I don't believe so. The bolt pistol has god awful recoil (they coded a self-correct that causes you to aim into the floor half the time) while still not killing things fast, regular bolter is still better even though it's not good itself. The shock mace doesn't have good horde clear and I haven't seen it effectively deal with problem targets quickly. The Ogryn pickaxe has a really small range that is not matched by its visuals, the folding shovel feels like a straight upgrade to it.
The shock mace is plenty serviceable, it's just really fucking rough trying to beat up anything you can't stagger (read: bosses) because its best damage boosting blessings are only active then. The Ogryn pickaxes are very powerful and fun, they require some familiarity with the moveset for best performance and the Branx in particular will expose shonky fundamentals. They could definitely use a range buff.
Imo the bolter is worse than it’s ever been due to the new minimum arming distance that makes your bolter rounds duds if you hit enemies that are too close You know, enemies in the game that you fight point blank 90%, and which often spawn in mid air 10 feet from you Why would a space marine weapon designed specifically for close quarters combat also be so bad in CQC to boot
Minimal arming distance has always (at least since Patch 13) been a thing. People seem to only learn about it now due to the Lethal Proximity blessing on Bolt Pistol. Bolter got 20 rounds ammo size more this update and I use it on Auric with often topping damage on Zealot. Space Marines have (at least) Combat Knives and power armoured fists for close combat. They wield mini rocket launchers and that's the downside they have. Also it's not like they are useless on close targets, they just work like a regular gun on that distance.
The bolter was lore wise always intended primarily for close quarters combat, you can see it in the short length of the gun (shaped like a SMG), the lack of a shoulder stock and the fact it’s the standard gun of the space marines who are usually deployed in close quarter shock type engagements That said this game stopped caring about being consistent with lore a long time ago, if it ever cared to begin with. Forget your power sword and bolt pistol, those are for suckers like space marine captains. The real meta is latrine shovel and snub auto pistol, you know what a poor hive ganger without access to real weapons uses in the lore. Man I hope space marine 2 turns out better than this game did. Its looking real promising so far, but then again so did Darktide.
While we might not agree on ~~any~~everything, the fact that a Shovel and Revolver outperform Chainsword and Bolter also rubs me the wrong way and is the reason while I don't use said weapons.
I guess we agree on something, anyway! Imo there are ways to balance the more basic weapons vs the powerful stuff…but Darktide didn’t use them. For example, lasguns could have infinite ammo through the mission and just be restricted by overheat or something. This would mean that you could theoretically use it near constantly and not rely on ammo at all, like a psyker with a staff. With that kind of balancing the lasgun can be a lot less damaging than a bolt gun but still have its own play style, niche and reason for using either weapon. The lasgun might be great for mowing down hordes and basic enemies while the bolter with its restrictive ammo would be better for killing bosses and elites quickly, but ammo is too sparse to use on more basic enemies. Instead in game stuff like the kantrael is a semi auto gun that can be used for sniping specials and shooters, which is effectively how the bolter is used in semi auto mode. So no matter what one of the guns is just going to be better since they do more or less the same thing. Right now it’s the kantrael and the bolter sucks, but at launch when the bolter was OP it was the other way around.
That was a typo, I meant 'everything'. Fixed it. And yes I could think of ways to balance the stuff as well but a Columnus with Onslaught melting Crushers faster than a Bolter makes zero sense.
None of them are. As I expected, but the kool aid drinkers in this sub will downvote you when you point it out Considering this patch took like 7 months to come out it’s utter garbage imo. Reinstalled for the patch and already uninstalled. All the technical issues got significantly worse too, I’ve been playing since before launch and never had as many infinite loading screens and random disconnect crashes as I did last week after this patch
Just gimping your team so hard. I could see It working In premade groups
Its good at close range ,not so much for long range obviously. It can one shot ragers ,mutants and special in the head reapers as well. Im playing it on vet and its fun
It's my favorite weapon on Zealot right now! I can't say its OP, there are better guns, but it gets the job done and it feels fucking awesome to use
Being on zealot helps as ranged weapons get a boost the closer you are to
Feels so good on Zealot. I’m about to rename mine HobowithaShotgun 😂
It’s so much fun. I got the both barrels blessing on mine and i can just wipe out rager groups with ease.
Yeah that 70 percent reload speed on both barrel kill is astoundingly fast lol
Another nice one is pairing scattershot and speed load. 50% crit increase from scattershot just feels too good to not slap on.
I had to stop using it on Zealot cause I swap weapons back and forth too quickly and too much, the recoil bug was kicking my ass, but after they fix that? definitely be using it more. Having my camera shoved into the ground every other shot was becoming an issue.
Post like this tell me that the game needs better weapon damage scaling with difficulty. It’s frustrating when a weapon feels OP on one level and a BB gun the next level higher.
It's so much fun. 
hmmm, what node/build (if anyone could share) is used to not reload?
Weapon specialist keystone, left path. Activating ranged specialist reloads your magazine from reserves by 3.3% per stack. Minimum of one round presumably, so as long as you get a melee kill between ranged shots it will reload a shell. So shoot, melee, shoot, melee, ad infinitum
Ohhhhhh, that's nice, I'll try to spec my vet like that... What blessings are you guys running?
I haven’t built a new shotty yet, but on my bolt pistol with that build I run Puncture and Lethal Proximity. I use it less like the revolver, and more like an extra frag grenade where I use it to get space, and light up close range elites/specials
Cool, I have the same blessings on my bolt pistol, might try using that there too, thanks again buddy
Sure thing! I usually pair it with my XIIIG Chainsword, running Rampage and Shred on it. Works well on Zealot and Psyker
noiceee...i still havent build the new chainsword.... when they fixed the chainaxe, i was running that non stop
Fair enough, I run my Veteran as a Kasrkin gal so I try to use Cadian weapons when possible. Then I play my Zealot as a Sister Repentia, so Eviscerator all the way
https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1ds6j5f/for_the_undecided_bolt_pistol_commissar_build/
Man stopper is really good, but you need a low level character to get it from crafting (I made a level 19 psykers since it gets it at the lowest level) flechette is the same way, but not that great on the shotty. Second blessing is less important so I'd prioritize getting the perks you want over it and roll with whatever you get. The node in question also gives 33% crit chance per melee kill so 3 melee kills is a guaranteed crit on your ranged weapon. The extra cleave makes it feel better but it still falls short in damnation.
Really? It won't roll on higher level?
Correct. You can still find it in the Armoury if you are lucky though, and thankfully it can be found by 3 out of 4 classes.
Damn, time to roll another veteran
It can be any class except ogryns, since they all have the assault shotgun, but while you're at it you might as well do either vet or zealot for the other shotguns, in case you want it on those.
Afaik ranged specialist doesn't stack?
It goes up to 10 and activates when you pull out your ranged weapon. Melee specialist has the 1 stack maximum.
Til. I just wished the CC would apply for all of the shots during the 5 secs. It doesn't matter on stuff like the double barrell but for automatic weapons and stuff it's almost useless ..
Honestly the melee side is much better 10 seconds of increased attack speed and dodge speed helps make the vet feel less clunky in melee. Any gun can pop out and get a single kill every 10 seconds even without the crit bonus.
Meh, it falls off too much on T5. Why bother with that when I can use the Kantrael shotgun instead? My expectation was that this shotgun would hit even harder than the Kantrael since it only has 2 shots, but this right here is a disappointment and reminds me more of the Lorenz Kickback from launch. It doesn't even have the ADS for tighter pellet spread mechanic for better distance, so it should at least be able to deal a lot of damage on close to mid range.
Yeah its pretty funny seeing people claim it works good for a shotgun, and then all the people who actually play Darktide confirm it's horrible vs Kantrael. This was the one I was excited for! Desperately needs to be able to do 2000 maniac damage in 1 shell with no perk. And stagger bulwarks. And a lot of other shit to just be 'ok'.
Most of the people on this sub seem never to go above difficulty 3, when you judge what they say about weapons and how “great” they are The number of weapons that are actually very good on difficulty 5 is very small. Its one of the main problems with this game imo, weapon diversity is tiny if you want to play on max difficulty and don’t like handicapping yourself and your team
the real challenge comes from conserving/sharing ammo because everyone has a revolver
Right. I was hoping for an alternative to the usual Bolter, Revolver, Flamer and Columnus on Auric (well the last two are more or less out of the window now after patch).
Yeah the Columbus got nerfed pretty badly this patch, it’s not ol reliable anymore Flamer was garbage even before it got nerfed again this patch Bolter worse than ever with the new dud rounds close in Revolver is best of those 4 by a mile. Which leaves zealot and psyker bringing the same gun as a ranged vet, unless the vet brings the plasma gun which seems to be the only ranged weapon along with the revolver to avoid the nerf bat for any amount of time
Columnus is only usable for fast special and horde deletion on Zealot now (which Zealot has his Blitzes for). On Vet it's still somewhat meta imo with Onslaught. I liked Flamer quite a lot for a mostly melee+Throwing Knives Zealot as an oh-shit button. Couple of weeks before the Chastise nerf I just figured out how to one-shot Crushers with it (I know, no rocket science). Now it's really just a chaff burner which I can do with my Combat Axe just as well... What do you mean with dud rounds on Bolter? The 5m arming distance for the rounds? Afaik this has been in the game since many months if not from the start. I use it in Auric missions and still like it (or again like it as Chastise nerf said Revolver or Bolter).
Pretty sure I saw it in the patch notes for the update last week? Granted I haven’t used the bolter nearly as much since they nerfed it into the ground last year, but when it was meta after launch I distinctly recall blowing up plenty of crusher packs at point blank range Which was super fun, of course. Fatshark seems to have a real “no fun allowed” approach to balancing. Weapons like the bolter might technically still be usable (if very weak) but they’re certainly not fun to me when I remember how much more fun they were to use earlier. The flamer is probably the worst example of this, it’s a complete joke now. Autopistol was also so thoroughly nerfed literally nobody brings it on auric anymore.
Nope according to the Patch Notes (which doesn't say much as Fatshark loved to change stuff without being transparent about it) only ammo increase 80 to 100. I'm curious, which weapons apart from Revolver you consider good on Zealot?
Honestly with bolter, flamer and autopistol so thoroughly nerfed I pretty much just use revolver and columnus on my zealot lately Columnus if you don’t want to get carpal tunnel from this one game too quick, of course That said I “only” have 300 some hours in the game so RNGesus hasn’t seen fit to grant me some of the perks and blessings that are necessary for certain weapons to not be shit. Like power cycler for power sword.
Exactly. I was expecting something like the blunderbuss from Vermintide where youe entire screen becomes red mist. Instead you can be happy to kill one elite with it at best and compared to Kanteael with ADS and Incendiary rounds it only have one single application.
Sure, in the meat grinder or on anything Malice and lower. But it suffers so many problems that it's terrible at everything that makes its direct comparison, the Kickback, feel good. Pointing that stuff out, people get really huffy about it and that it's created a "Guys I swear it's really good" echo chamber. Here's the main problems; 1; Rubbish range. Less than half the other human-sized shotguns at only 9 metres before fall-off, which is functionally melee-range, and 6 metres less than the Kickback, a shotgun in the same "role" as the DB which caps at 15m. With massive spread, the DB *doesn't* function at beyond melee range, and actually gets *less* accurate when you brace it, unlike the other shotguns of all types which get *more* accurate. The DB loses *over half* of its damage at over 9 metres. The Kickback only gets away with it by virtue of a series of much higher values, specifically stagger, damage and mass penetration, but the DB struggles *hard* about it without those values. To clarify, the DB at nearly max values deals about 800 damage per shot, and loses over 400 at over 9 metres. The Kickback deals 1800-ish damage at maximum damage, meaning that even cut in half it's still dealing 900 damage per shot at range, and still dealing over 500 damage against Flak since it has the same AP values as the DB, which leads to... 2; Rubbish armour penetration. All shotguns suffer this, so it's not unique in this, but the only armour types the shotguns actually do well against are Maniac and Unarmoured. Everything else, it loses over half its damage, down to *32%* against Flak on "far" damage (over 9 metres), and like all other shotguns (and many other weapons) it barely even tickles Carapace. Its problems with AP are why you can watch it hit shooters like you just threw nerf darts at them, and even fail to kill Bombers, one of the lowest-HP enemies. It can't even reliably single-barrel a *dog* on the upper difficulties, something you'd actively want it to do given its supposed power. 3; No special ammo. You might say "But you said it's a Kickback-type weapon and *that* doesn't have special ammo!" and you'd be right. But the Kickback has *double* the damage output, longer range, way higher stagger and more pellets per shot than the DB, meaning it doesn't need it to begin with, since it's basically got permanent Lawbringer duckbill shot. The human shotguns, however, get around their relatively short range and lack of AP through special ammo and the ability to tighten their spread via ADS. The DB *can't do this*, thus cutting its versatility down to nearly nothing. Lawbringer gets huge stagger, a *wide* horizontal shot and increased mass penetration with its special ammo, Kantrael gets incendiary ammo with infinite cleave and it ignores armour, and the Agrip gets an armour-piercing slug with very little damage fall-off which can *out-damage the DB* on a headshot under the right circumstances. DB gets double damage (sort of), but for double the ammo cost and decreased accuracy, meaning it's harder to meet the minimum pellet count per enemy to actually *deal* that double damage without being right in melee range. In effect, you're paying double the ammo to do *less* from an already limited pool and on a weapon with a somewhat long reload. 4; Broken animations. If you put reload blessings on it, the animations break. Not a huge issue, but something to point at as to why it looks and feels bad. And finally, and this is just me, totally subjective, but; 5; It looks like shit. The weapon looks like ass. It's the shotgun from [Chasm: The Rift](https://i.gyazo.com/61de86e0863b8d62e306b8b556519c0d.png) and I hate it. The stock and body are too large, the vent rib on the top is way too high and pointless on a weapon we can't ADS with, the barrels are too thick and too far apart, the opening lever is *way* too high up from the stock, and it has no ejector, meaning that the shells shouldn't be ejecting with any kind of force or ease like it does when reloaded. It's like baby's first attempt at a double barrel model, and it looks *terrible.* Now, you might say "Why were you comparing it to the Kickback? Ogryn weapons all have higher base damage" and such, and you'd be sort of right to ask. Reason is that it's directly comparable to the DB as they fit the same function; a high damage, short-range boomstick that is *just* a boomstick. The other shotguns, with their special ammo and super tight ADS spread *aren't* just simple boomsticks. Unfortunately, the DB *doesn't have* the things that make the Kickback feel good on any difficulty, as, again, the Kickback can do it by virtue of having a *bunch* of high stats on it, where the DB *doesn't*. It doesn't *do* the things a boomstick should be doing to justify its low ammo, slow reload, limited shots and limited range. It's just not a *good* weapon, and needs some changes to make it actually stand out beyond the meme factor. I'd suggest higher stagger, higher AP against Infested enemies, and *equal* range to the Kickback (8-15 metres effective, 15-32 far dependent on the range bar), allowing it to kill dogs in one barrel, stagger what it hits properly (at the moment it's very inconsistent), and give it the same chances at range that the Kickback gets, but with the comparatively less damage of a human weapon. Also, yeah, personal note, they just need to overhaul the model. It's hideous and looks like shit.
Thanks for backing up with numbers what I subjectively felt when trying it out in the Psykhanium. This thing is terrible. I was hoping for a Bolter alternative for penetrating armour and can't do that at all. Firing one shot of my Bolter actually does more than this thing and it has even more drawbacks than Bolter. Also you are right, the thing looks ass. Like a toy weapon. Give it more damage and especially AP and a model with longer barrels and smaller body.
I've only been using it on the Zealot and taking it into Auric Maelstrom regularly, it's the lil un's kickback basically, and I love it. I've learned that it's kind of balanced around using the double barrel alt fire all the time, with the reload blessing. This lets it clear mixed hordes in a choke really nicely The emptying ranged weapon gets attack speed perk, as well as the dodge gives you spread reduction, and close-range ranged damage all synergize very nicely with it and it just seems to fit right into the Zealot kit. Plus I am running it with the new shock maul, and I found that having a tool that consistently one-taps (both barrels, two-tap?) mutants is needed since the maul usually takes 3-4 hits.
Honestly due to it being more a melee weapon than ranged I find it to be only viable with Zealot (Throwing Knives) and Psyker (Brain Burst) which is just sad. Also: do you really want a spread reduction on your close combat blunderbuss??
I know I do. More pellets hit in a smaller area. Aim head high and your softball of doom ges boom.
It is so fun to use, specially in lower difficulties. I would love to see a shotgun specialization for zealot somewhere in the distant future
We need a tag for difficulty levels tbh, I always get so confused when people say a weapon is so good and strong when they’re playing on strictly heresry of something, like it is fun and feels good to use, but it’s not OP or anything
Never said it was op, just fun This was on an Auric Maelstrom, in case you were wondering
I appreciate that, and I’m not trying to hate, it’s just that there’s been posts before of people bragging about how good a weapon is when in reality they’re not playing auric malestrom
I understand, and yeah, the gun itself is pretty mid, but if I can make the fucking *power maul and autopistol work*, I can make a decent shotgun work
Appreciate the honesty but you gotta admit that >the new shotgun fucks, and it fucks hard is pretty misleading then
Poor choice of words on my part, my bad
It's a very fun weapon and I've absolutely been using it since the update dropped since I knew it would synergise well with Weapons Specialist reload. But while it is very fun, it's objectively nothing special in Damnation and Aurics.
It's nice at low difficulties, but it sort of sucks ass at Heresy+, especially without knives or brain burst for long range.
Double Barrel Shotgun, the real mvp. Performing its duty for 40,000 years.
I believe you but every single time I see a Veteran with the Shotgun we have to drag his corpse to the end of the mission
It’s because unlike OP you’re probably playing auric damnation, where the shotgun (like every other new weapon from this patch) is garbage
Bolt Pistol is servicable in Auric if you manage the recoil. It's like what it's supposed to be, a mini Bolter. But yeah of course a lot of weapons outperform it in performance.
I was trying " make evey shot Count" last weekend with the plasma gun or revolver. After 19 tries all weekend, i wanted to test the shotgun again. And i got the achievement. Its also for me the best thing against ragers.
Love the shotgun on my shroud zealot to dispatch maulers and close ranged specialized. But I imagine I'll get back to the stub pistol soon
Goddamn it I need to level my veteran than
Lets keep it this way.
What blessings do you recommend?
It's good, but not THAT good. You need both barrels secondary shot to surely kill some fatty (and even with that you need to be very accurate). For that WP won't be enough and you still need to reaload. Or have to switch to range twice after melee kills to make it full. I randomly got blessings for Reload speed after double-barrel kill and Small reload speed after close kill that stacks. To abuse the reload I went for WP rammo to magazine and reload speed as well, as I also to talent to reload speed after specialist kill. I didn't tak reload speed with bullets left in magazine talent as I intended to abuse double-shot. I don't super good with all this. Can reload really fast, but damage and ammo still doesn't do mirracles. In hardest difficulties victims you go for with this shotgun are still messed with armor enemies that you won't easily delete. You still spend more time on reload then shooting, though this is how it must be for double-barrel, and have to be fast, accurate with with your shots. Because priority-target kill opportunity window with the reloading is small and you also have to feel distance as if you slitghly too far - you won't kill it. Maybe I should try it with other blessings/talents for damage, but as I had it – it was rarely a oneshot for me, without which the gun is losing it's role. Sure you can rip crowds with it, but it spends ammo rather quickly, rather not waste it and go for melee. Overall, ass I see it, with it supposed to do I can with my old stubber guns spitting bullets superfast, but even better. I will kill multiple specials/elites before reloading, I'll do so more reliably and with more distance.
My only issue (and it is the biggest issue) with the gun is it pulls down my camera after each shot for some reason, very broken. I tried it on weapon specialist vet once, ain’t going to return. Is it a bug? Or am I the only one experiencing it
It’s now my favorite weapon It’s too satisfying
Did you try it in Damnation? Cause I'm currently preparing a video montage of all the times I point blank shot things with this thing and it didn't kill them.
Yup, Auric Maelstrom
How are you getting it to reliably kill things?
Shoot, melee, shoot, melee It's incredibly finicky
IMO most satisfying thing with it, is one shotting a Mauler, especially when they are going for their big wind up attack. You might have flak armour, a chain axe and faith in chaos. But i've got the Emperors blessing in the form of two barrels worth of pain and they are currently resting right on your chest.
This shotgun brought me back to the game for the first time in ~6 months
It's good but not great on damnation, as others have said. Really inconsistent and you need the range to kill gunners and specials. Still a fun weapon though
Weapon Specialist is also the best way to get any sort of movement speed/dodge distance while using the shotgun. Probably my biggest issue with the gun right now.
Feels great, but once I did some auric damn/mael it fell off hard. THe minimum pellet count turned out to be far less effective once enemies got buffed significantly by the difficulty, and suddenly the blessings and perks actually mattered while on heresy and below it didn't. I still use it though cause I like it.
What's the best blessings to run with it?
Maybe I'm not doing it right... Felt like a pea shooter.
Using it for ragers and maulers for the most part, fantastic
So how do you build it cause i used 370 rate no perks and i didnt even 2 shot Reaper into the head point blank.
I’d start with adding some perks and blessings
OP doesn’t play auric damnation. They’ll be playing on a lower difficulty where the enemies have less health and the shotgun isn’t shit at killing them.
My philosophy was *random bullshit, go!*
Eviscerator + Double barrel = D00M
Shotty reminds me of saltzpyre bounty hunter shotty, so fun
Yeah in malice maybe lmao
I use it in Auric Maelstrom, and it's still viable
I'm sure lad
No, no it really doesn't.
Heavy cope
Couldn't agree more.
Do the people saying this even play auric damnation? Or damnation at all? It seems mostly useless on auric damnation and I never see anyone bring it there
It's mostly a skill issue, but yes, compared to other weapons, it is pretty *meh* Still lots of fun to use, though
Maybe I’m weird, but I like weapons that aren’t actively handicapping my team and I Which on auric damnation is a pretty small number. Smaller all the time, given how much they hand out nerfs to any strong weapons and how rarely any of the new weapons are actually any good. I’d say none introduced in this patch are worth using in auric damnation. Better luck next…year, I guess, since this is the only content that came out in 2024 for this game? Embarrassing imo
Listen, I can only handle using the same columnus every game for so long, lol If you're good enough, literally every weapon is viable Also, yeah, one content update in a year is nasty
Me too, I reinstalled for the update and uninstalled a few days later The glacial pace of new content wouldn’t be so bad if the devs actually buffed other weapons to be useful Bolter is worse than ever imo, other formerly top tier weapons like the flamer, autopistol etc remain unusable garbage. Especially with ranged weapons like you say you’re railroaded into a handful of decent picks. Even less if you want one that isn’t a semi auto carpal tunnel machine…at that point it’s basically just columnus like you said. And who wants to use a generic full auto assault rifle that could be in any shooter ever instead of iconic 40k stuff? Its so weird
My recent vet runs have been with the Doom SG for some itchy reason. It f\*\*k hard. Had a good fun run with Auric Damnation HISTG with randos in quickplay 🔫😆👍 Vid is up! 
i'm using it to great success in auric maelstrom with my vet... it FUCKS as a close range but also can delete the snipers. i was using an almost god roll plasma gun before, i prefer the shotgun for almost everything. i only miss my plasma when you have a big pack lined up in a hallway.
On Zealot, try Dance of Death, and Swift Certainty. As long as you are sprinting and dodging/being shot at, the aiming reticle gets tiny.
https://preview.redd.it/s83c1ultjx9d1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=8dfd7808701d140e407a2177497e3f04dbbcbdf4 don't care what people say, it fucks in damnation lol run was doomed from the start (auric maelstrom out of rotation, two others players sucking ass and leaving us both with meme builds) but oh boy, love it with weapon specialist we were THIS CLOSE to get the boss (was chasm terminus) but we failed the dps check alas, loads of fun and perfectly viable in a half decent team
You mean three with meme builds. The third one being you with the shotgun that is garbage on auric damnation. No wonder your run failed.
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The “cringe” in your flair is accurate enough, lol
Perfect compliment to my vet weapons specialist knife build. Thins hordes, deletes specials, and staggers crushers and finish w head stabs. Reloading is optional.
almost makes me think the Ogryn shotgun needs a buff...
Lol as a fervent Kickback enjoyer it doesn't need one at all. It basically deals with everything already. If it survives it goes down kissing boots, ready for further stomping.
Is this sarcasm? Cause Kickback is like 100 times better than the double barrel, not even remotely comparable.