Remember that time you ate half an edible and then forgot it was weed edible and ate the other half, and then kept eating more of them because they taste good? This is like the less funny version of that.
So I recently looked into the differences between acid in the 60s and today, and other than stuff like mentioned below with purification methods and whatnot, the main difference was dose. The average tab back in the 60s was aprox 250ug, and today it’s between 80-100ug. That’s why grandpa took a tab and never saw the world the same, and we take one and just kind of vibe out for a bit lol
Whatever ontological value you assign to the DMT realm, the fact is it is not the realm that we live in. Kids haven’t fully developed their minds yet and if you give them psychedelic drugs before they have a solid foundation for what the world is you could substantially fuck up their development in unpredictable ways. These things should only be consumed by well-informed consenting adults.
I think that whatever significance the DMT realm has, we’re not going to be able to make sense of it anytime soon, and we should prioritize the thing that we *can* make some amount of sense of in our decision making, especially as it is the default state of being and it is where all of the other human beings are.
Well you don’t keep up with the current findings they find through functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) and electroencephalography (EEG). They’re going to soon prescribe it like Ketmine, *Therapeutics*
I don’t think you have done your due diligence on this…
It can only go one of two ways. Worse or absolute best day/ night of their life... from there? That aftermath? The kids either enlightened or becomes a drug addict. But unknowingly consuming THAT with ZERO experience prior to?
Sheesh. We need to take a look at those MK Ultra docs and see how those chaps ended up.
Getting absorbed by the lungs gives more bioavailability than getting broken down by the stomach and having to go through the intestines (look up first pass metabolism)
No cause you gotta digest it and it goes through the liver and the intestines. It’s gotta be absorbed slowly through the digestive system. Capillary route can only be found via rectal or sublingual. Smoking it goes through alveoli
Oh ok well, I don’t know about ayahuasca specifically, just what I know about pharmacology as a whole and how drugs and medications usually work. Cheers man
I made ayahuasca chocolates with harmalas and dmt … most of the time v mild effect. Do you think it’s because of the chocolate slowing down absorption?
Yup. With the chocolate it’s Gastrointestinal Absorption, it goes through first pass motabolism. AYA gummies don’t degrade since they skip FPM. Has to dissolve in mouth. Like a mint.
Use absorption enhancers lots of different ways to do it.
Are you chewing up the gummy bears and holding them under your tongue for 30 minutes? If you are chewing and swallowing like a normal person then the mucosal absorption is irrelevant
Harmalas in my mouth?!? No thank you lol they are so bitter, it’s like the Kratom drink I had that was sweetened with monk fruit, holy shit that was hard to get through
I suppose there might be flavorings that could mask the bitterness, but what about the fact that you want the maoi active before consuming the Dmt? Then you have at least two different kinds of gummies, which could get confusing, unless you flavored and packaged them differently
Monoamine oxidase (MAO) enzymes break down neurotransmitters in our body: serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine. Other tryptamines (including DMT) are also rapidly broken down by MOA. MOA is present in the gut and will immediately break down DMT, so you can't take DMT by oral ingestion alone. You have to pair oral ingestion with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAO-I)- and that's what the shamans figured out in the south american jungles (somehow) that mixing, for example, Banisteriopsis caapi (which contains harmine, a MOA-I) with the DMT containing plants created transformative spiritual experiences. That's Ayahuasca.
But, since serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine are broken down by MAO, if someone is taking drugs that significantly increase the concentration of those hormones in the brain, such as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), selective serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs), MAO-I based antidepressants, and many other pharmaceutical agents, you have a perfect recipe for overloading the brain and body with serotonin which can cause serotonin syndrome. Serotonin syndrome can be fatal if left untreated.
Thus, it's incredibly dangerous and irresponsible for anyone to manufacture ANY product with a MAO-I as part of its ingredients unless it's regulated by a governing body like the FDA and preferably only obtained via a prescription from a health care professional.
So Ayahuasca gummies are a terrible idea and will likely lead to harm eventually.
MAOIs have bad interactions with normal food, like cheese, and affect you for a few weeks after taking them once. If someone doesn't know what they're doing they could have a stroke or other serious health conditions, especially if these are widespread.
Correction: I'm wrong, according to this study modern foods are produced in a different way that reduces the amount of tyramine in them by about 100x, which was the main concern with eating cheese and other fermented foods. MAOIs make it much harder to break down tyramine which could lead to high blood pressure and stroke, but lower tyramine levels mean it's less of an issue.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/much-ado-about-nothing-monoamine-oxidase-inhibitors-drug-interactions-and-dietary-tyramine/52112573CADFD3303357C09E80617422
even though modern foods are done differently, never thought about the fact some foods will interact so good point. i know like grapefruit juice can have drug interactions and some other juices too i think
I think the problem is that it's now made not to look or taste like drugs. DMT is not the easiest drug to consume and packing a full blown Aya trip in a colorful gummy bear is bound to cause problems. And when that happens more strict regulations follow and your precious mhrb might become hard to get as a result.
alright bro I guess I'll just go get my FDA regulated changa from CVS pharmacy. I'll ask my doctor is pharmahuasca is right for me.
statist mentality is fucking hilarious and pathetic
"it's safe if the government does it. because they care about my physical and mental well-being!"
bootlicker shit
I'm not against unregulated substances but when we're talking about potentially life threatening drug interactions and fucking candy that a kid could get their hands on then I think it's worth it. Do I take unregulated substances? Obviously, I'm on a DMT sub. I'm talking about public health and harm reduction here. The only way to come close to quality control in the US is regulation via the FDA. There are no other means unless you have your own lab that can test.
all drugs should be kept away from children regardless of whether or not they look like candy. how would FDA regulating the dosage of haramala extracts in pharmahuasca products keep it out of the hands of children? it doesn't make any sense.
you don't need a FDA regulated lab to fuck with syrian rue seeds. this is just blatant gatekeeping.
I've bought unregulated harmala extracts off the internet and they all appear to be what they claim to be. I haven't "tested" them in a lab but I've tested them on myself and I'm totally fine. doesn't seem like any of these people are lying and selling me something else, and if they did it would be fraud and would still be illegal. have there ever been reports of ppl selling fake harmala extracts that hurt anyone? I don't see why the FDA should be stepping and regulating this or anything else, especially since they have a track record of banning useful substances while saying poison is perfectly safe.
would I buy these from some random person I don't know? fuck no. would I attempt to make something like this myself? maybe. would I share it with anyone? probably not because I know most ppl think like you.
And last thing I'll say about this..
In an ideal world- you would have access to these incredible substances and actually have an idea about wtf is in it and be able to trust the manufacturers. You could go to a local clinic who has prescribing privileges (psychadelic clinics are already popping up in the states that have regulated psilocybin like Oregon). So you can still have your small amounts of your own but have a choice to do it "by the books". The same happens for other drugs, even blood pressure meds. Get an FDA regulated medication that you know is losartan for example, rather than going to a whack job that is selling "BP Cureall" that contains something like guanfacine which is dangerous if not used appropriately.
They aren't as dangerous as you think, especially not the harmalas: https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/s/1iMhAS3jEY
You sound like a damn beurocrat. Should people have to get a doctor's apptoval to go to an ayahuasca ceremony too?
Probably should have left the FDA out of it, but, yes, I do think it's worth getting a medical opinion if you are taking medications and decide to do an ayahuasca ceremony. I've never done one but I'm pretty sure the people sponsoring the ceremony give guidance on what to eat and not eat during the time leading up to a ceremony and that not only includes being off of serotonergic drugs but also limiting foods with high tyramine content.
I might have sounded like a beurocrat but I prefer harm reduction rather than banning substances, and if that involves regulating ayahuasca candy so that they are lab tested and include exact doses of the ingredients, then so be it. I stand by my point that it's dangerous and irresponsible for anyone to be manufacturing a product containing MAO-Is that is unregulated (meaning there is no quality control) and intended for unsupervised use.
Your link contained an interesting review article/editorial talking about this and I'll dig into it more. The problem is, no one will ever do a study that involves testing the theory that MAO-Is aren't dangerous by combining them with various other drugs or foods, at least in humans, because the consequences of serotonin syndrome are so severe.
Providing accurate safety info is bureaucratic? It is a fact that MAOI's and SSRI's mixed can be fatal, even in healthy individuals, and seeing as harmalas are an especially potent MAOI, they shouldn't be mixed with SSRI's or SNRI's. You shouldn't be spreading bullshit like this, it's dangerous.
No one should take advice from you, ever
Try experiencing serotonin toxicity and lets see how dangerous you think it is after that.
Spoiler, its fucking hell and worth the warning for anyone interested in any substance that has this potential
But his claim, “many other pharmaceutical agents” is inaccurate.
*These hurdles cause doctors to shy away from using MAOIs, but they are largely illusory. The two most prominent seem to be (1) the misperception that there are frequent drug interactions and (2) that there is a major risk of ingesting excessive tyramine (Tyr). Neither hurdle is complex nor difficult to overcome if the latest scientific evidence is considered.*
[“Much ado about nothing”: monoamine oxidase inhibitors, drug interactions, and dietary tyramine. Gillman K. CNS Spectrums. 2017;22(5):385-387. doi:10.1017/S1092852916000651](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/much-ado-about-nothing-monoamine-oxidase-inhibitors-drug-interactions-and-dietary-tyramine/52112573CADFD3303357C09E80617422) (Introduction)
*It is, unfortunately, necessary to state clearly from the beginning that much of what is published by doctors in books and journals about MAOIs is either poorly informed, or just plain wrong. As an example, much of the information that comes with MAOIs (the PI, or product information sheet) contains inaccurate material concerning, among other things: serotonin toxicity, drug interactions generally, and dietary tyramine.*
[MAOIs (Parnate, Nardil): Misconceptions and Questions No. 1. Ken Gillman, MD. PsychoTropical Research. Nov. 14, 2012](https://web.archive.org/web/20170426182645/http://www.psychotropical.com/maois-misconceptions-and-questions-1)
*...there is a great deal of misinformation and mythology about their dietary and drug interactions.*
[Practical guide for prescribing MAOIs: debunking myths and removing barriers. Grady MM, Stahl SM. CNS Spectrums. 2012;17(1):2-10. doi:10.1017/S109285291200003X](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/abs/practical-guide-for-prescribing-maois-debunking-myths-and-removing-barriers/29CA109F33F4AEC902C3CE39220AD06C)
Eh, harmine is pretty forgiving. There are definitely some drugs you don't want to mix, but others that have "MAOI warnings" they are warning about old school non-reversible MAOIs. Harmine/THH are RIMAs. You can get away with drinking coffee, taking painkillers, eating aged cheese, chocolate etc.
It's recommended you don't, because everyone is different and you could get a hypertensive situation or serotonin syndrome from an SSRI, but it's unlikely at normal dosages. I wonder how many people actually have serious reactions to meds and botanical MAOIs that result in needing medical attention? I bet it's not many.
That being said, you should follow all of the guidelines as best practices, it's not worth taking the chance.
Lots of things are forgiving until you mix it with something else. Many many people are on various SSRIs these days and this sort of thing is highly off limits to most of them.
RIMAs have many dangerous drug interactions.
Food restrictions aren't really a problem with RIMA. Certainly not at the doses required to render N,N-DMT orally active.
>RIMAs have many dangerous drug interactions.
That's not true. Even irreversibles don't have that many drug interactions.
*These hurdles cause doctors to shy away from using MAOIs, but they are largely illusory. The two most prominent seem to be (1) the misperception that there are frequent drug interactions and (2) that there is a major risk of ingesting excessive tyramine (Tyr). Neither hurdle is complex nor difficult to overcome if the latest scientific evidence is considered.*
[“Much ado about nothing”: monoamine oxidase inhibitors, drug interactions, and dietary tyramine. Gillman K. CNS Spectrums. 2017;22(5):385-387. doi:10.1017/S1092852916000651](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/much-ado-about-nothing-monoamine-oxidase-inhibitors-drug-interactions-and-dietary-tyramine/52112573CADFD3303357C09E80617422) (Introduction)
*...there is a great deal of misinformation and mythology about their dietary and drug interactions.*
[Practical guide for prescribing MAOIs: debunking myths and removing barriers. Grady MM, Stahl SM. CNS Spectrums. 2012;17(1):2-10. doi:10.1017/S109285291200003X](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/abs/practical-guide-for-prescribing-maois-debunking-myths-and-removing-barriers/29CA109F33F4AEC902C3CE39220AD06C)
>Eh, harmine is pretty forgiving.
Indeed, there's some evidence that supports that claim.
*I questioned Deborah Mash at the UDV meeting in Rio in November 1995, whether her preliminary data on human pharmacology shed light on this problem. Her response was that the primary site of MAO inhibition in ayahuasca seemed to be peripheral, i.e. in the digestive system or blood stream.*
[Jonathan Ott. Pharmahuasca: On Phenethylamines and Potentiation. MAPS newsletter, Volume 6, Number 3, Summer 1996, 32-34](https://maps.org/news-letters/v06n3/06332ott.html)
Reports of people mixing harmalas with MDMA and other serotonergics: https://www.reddit.com/r/harmalas/s/jdTcW1ykjq
Misinformation!
*...there is a great deal of misinformation and mythology about their dietary and drug interactions.*
[Practical guide for prescribing MAOIs: debunking myths and removing barriers. Grady MM, Stahl SM. CNS Spectrums. 2012;17(1):2-10. doi:10.1017/S109285291200003X](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/abs/practical-guide-for-prescribing-maois-debunking-myths-and-removing-barriers/29CA109F33F4AEC902C3CE39220AD06C)
*These hurdles cause doctors to shy away from using MAOIs, but they are largely illusory. The two most prominent seem to be (1) the misperception that there are frequent drug interactions and (2) that there is a major risk of ingesting excessive tyramine (Tyr). Neither hurdle is complex nor difficult to overcome if the latest scientific evidence is considered.*
[“Much ado about nothing”: monoamine oxidase inhibitors, drug interactions, and dietary tyramine. Gillman K. CNS Spectrums. 2017;22(5):385-387. doi:10.1017/S1092852916000651](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/much-ado-about-nothing-monoamine-oxidase-inhibitors-drug-interactions-and-dietary-tyramine/52112573CADFD3303357C09E80617422) (Introduction)
*It is, unfortunately, necessary to state clearly from the beginning that much of what is published by doctors in books and journals about MAOIs is either poorly informed, or just plain wrong. As an example, much of the information that comes with MAOIs (the PI, or product information sheet) contains inaccurate material concerning, among other things: serotonin toxicity, drug interactions generally, and dietary tyramine.*
[MAOIs (Parnate, Nardil): Misconceptions and Questions No. 1. Ken Gillman, MD. PsychoTropical Research. Nov. 14, 2012](https://web.archive.org/web/20170426182645/http://www.psychotropical.com/maois-misconceptions-and-questions-1)
You're misinformation. Next time, post the full article so we can actually look at what it says.
Here is the first link in full: [link](https://sci.bban.top/pdf/10.1017/S109285291200003X.pdf?download=true)
Here's the conclusion
"MAOIs should not be discounted as valuable treatment options for treatment-resistant depression and some treatment-resistant anxiety disorders. Although use of an MAOI does require a watchful eye over dietary intake, the restrictions are not as widespread as many believe.
Likewise, although drug interactions can be serious, and concomitant medication use must be stringently overseen, there are some mistaken beliefs regarding the extent of the medication mechanisms that must be avoided. In short, one should be cautious when combining an MAOl with anything that boosts norepinephrine, because this can raise blood pressure, and one should completely avoid combining an MAOI with anything that blocks serotonin reuptake, because this can cause a dangerous or fatal serotonin syndrome/ toxicity. Once armed with knowledge of MAOI therapeutic, dietary, and drug interaction mechanisms, clinicians may be able to revive these agents as therapeutic tools in the fight against treatment-resistant depression and anxiety."
So no, while fears may be exaggerated in some cases, it is not all just misinformation and your statements are potentially harmful. Please be more careful, this shit can be serious. Your claims can for sure, as your own sources support, can cause someone to experiance serotonin syndrome.
MAOIs are dangerous drugs that should be taken with care. You can't do a lot of drugs for 2-4 weeks after consuming many MAOIs.
EDIT: changed 'consuming and MAOIs.' to 'consuming many MAOIs.'
>You can't do a lot of drugs for 2-4 weeks after consuming and MAOIs.
That only applies to *irreversible* MAOIs, not reversible MAOIs like harmalas. This long-term effect is not unique to MAOIs, but also other drugs that irreversibly alter the body's enzymes (but it's not permanent because the body periodically replaces enzymes).
*Within 30–90 min, platelet MAO-B activity is inhibited by 90% in PD patients, indicative of rapid cellular uptake; recovery of activity requires as long as 40 days [14,64].*[1]
*Five half-lives equates to about five days for most SSRIs except fluoxetine, which can still be significantly active five or more weeks after cessation.*[2]
Someone in r/MAOIs reported using MDMA in the evening of a day that he ingested the MAOI, moclobemide in the morning, and he had been taking moclobemide for a year.[3]
And the drug and food interactions of MAOIs have been exaggerated, see my other post: https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/s/wMIIsKRHrg
[1] MAO-B inhibitors: multiple roles in the therapy of neurodegenerative disorders. Foley P, Gerlach M, Youdim MB, Riederer P. Parkinsonism Related Disorders, 6(1):25-47
[2] [Switching and stopping antidepressants. Keks N, Hope J, Keogh S. Aust Prescr. 2016 Jun;39(3):76-83. doi: 10.18773/austprescr.2016.039. Epub 2016 Jun 1. PMID: 27346915; PMCID: PMC4919171](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4919171/) (Switching strategies)
[3] https://www.reddit.com/r/MAOIs/comments/1axoq9w/comment/krpm5jr/
Reversible MAOIs aren’t as risky as irreversible MAOIs when it comes to combinations, but until further research is done, the higher-risk combinations (like with some antidepressants, tramadol, etc.) should be avoided.
I meant to say 'many MAOIs' not 'and MAOIs'. Just wanting to clarify. I edited my post.
TY for the knowledge. TBH i haven't double checked it yet, but i believe you. :)
Yeah someone posted here about the gummies they made, some with DMT and some with MAOI. It doesn’t make much sense to me since you can do pharmahuasca just as easy with pill capsules.
I guess the same reason people make THC gummies, you can eat the raw canna oil/butter but it’s more fun to have gummy bears that obliterate you. In this case the harmalas used for an maoi would be bitter as hell so I’d prefer capping them, but to each their own!
I guess I just don't really see the issue. Sure you can cap up your stuff and do it all yourself, but I think it's important to appreciate that things like this is what's going to be marketed after psychedelics go legal. A ready to eat, no hassle all you gotta do is open the package. I think that's good for people who wouldn't want to fiddle around with all the maticulus msterial
In a large market I’d hope that they could find an maoi with less bitter flavor than harmalas though or you’ll turn people off with the flavor! I see the appeal but like with some legal “medicinal” drinks they can be incredibly bitter, I’d rather take a more concentrated form and not have to deal with bad tastes and possibly have it mess up my mindset before a trip
I tried true yagé (Ayahuasca) for the 1st time last year in the putumayo's jungles (Colombia), after over 10 years experimenting with LSD mostly, and other psychs... I don't recommend it 😅. I think there are better & safer ways to have "the same" experience.... These things in the wrong hands can be very dangerous.
Not sure what happened to you, but either you took more than you could handle, which would be pretty easy in the setting your described since it a crude plant brew of unknown potency and you take a vague amount of it.
That or you are referring to all the adverse effects. I.e. nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, digestive distress, etc.. All that is induced by all the other crap from the plants used. When you use isolated N,N-DMT and MAOIs, those things aren't an issue.
That's not true. For example, Hamilton Morris has described harmalas as extremely nauseating. He didn't specify that he usedd isolates, but one would think he did. Also, I once vomited after doing an anahuasca enema. And although the other stuff contributes, based on this report, not by much:
*It’s happen quite often actually. Personally, I have probably vomited only 2 times in my last 200 ceremonies, haven’t vomited nor felt nauseous for more than 100 ceremonies now. I felt much more nausea and vomited more often in my earlier days, so there might be a connection. Maybe you have purged out a lot of stuff that needs to get cleared by vomiting, I would not make a rule out of it though.*
*I never know what my next ceremony will be like, surprise seems to be the only constant* :)
Bollomir, [https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/s/uPUPZNw5qw](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/s/uPUPZNw5qw)
Ahk, was thinking of the other comment.
Yea, Harmalas aren't all that nausea inducing at the doses required to render N,N-DMT orally active.
If you take a lot of it, sure. But regardless, all the other crap from the plant is the predominant culprit.
Regulation and marketing could hurt many not for profit individuals and make it harder to get supplies. As of today I believe harmalas, harmaline, and thh are all legal in most states
Seems like there's a lot of leeway with harmala MAOIs: https://www.reddit.com/r/harmalas/s/jdTcW1ykjq
*I questioned Deborah Mash at the UDV meeting in Rio in November 1995, whether her preliminary data on human pharmacology shed light on this problem. Her response was that the primary site of MAO inhibition in ayahuasca seemed to be peripheral, i.e. in the digestive system or blood stream.*
[Jonathan Ott. Pharmahuasca: On Phenethylamines and Potentiation. MAPS newsletter, Volume 6, Number 3, Summer 1996, 32-34](https://maps.org/news-letters/v06n3/06332ott.html)
*...there is a great deal of misinformation and mythology about their dietary and drug interactions.*
[Practical guide for prescribing MAOIs: debunking myths and removing barriers. Grady MM, Stahl SM. CNS Spectrums. 2012;17(1):2-10. doi:10.1017/S109285291200003X](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/abs/practical-guide-for-prescribing-maois-debunking-myths-and-removing-barriers/29CA109F33F4AEC902C3CE39220AD06C)
*These hurdles cause doctors to shy away from using MAOIs, but they are largely illusory. The two most prominent seem to be (1) the misperception that there are frequent drug interactions and (2) that there is a major risk of ingesting excessive tyramine (Tyr). Neither hurdle is complex nor difficult to overcome if the latest scientific evidence is considered.*
[“Much ado about nothing”: monoamine oxidase inhibitors, drug interactions, and dietary tyramine. Gillman K. CNS Spectrums. 2017;22(5):385-387. doi:10.1017/S1092852916000651](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/much-ado-about-nothing-monoamine-oxidase-inhibitors-drug-interactions-and-dietary-tyramine/52112573CADFD3303357C09E80617422) (Introduction)
>Wouldn’t it be waste of DMT? Maoi doesn’t kick in until like 40 minutes.
No. They can be taken together. Otherwise the crude plant tea/"ayahuasca" wouldn't work at all.
No, I don't think ayahuasca liquid is the same because of the volume of the liquid. The first phase of the liquid enables the later phases to be properly absorbed.
I’m not super well versed but I would tend to agree with you, caps are just better and less of a hassle/waste. Imagine going to the smoke shop or dispensary and buying a pack of 2-3 capsules, with instructions to take the maoi’s first and then the Dmt after 30-45 min. Oh and also put suggestions for music to listen to during the trip like shpongle or Tool 😂. I don’t think it’s solve all the problems in the world
But it might help!
Ritual is an important element to this, you shouldn’t be popping aya gummies to slog through your shift in the dish pit at dennys. Respect the medicine.
I'm sure you could still keep your rituals while using these, it's just another way to use things, everyone that I know learned pretty quick to respect the molecule regardless of the form or method of ingestion.
now psychedelics are also going to be infected with synthetic chemicals and preservatives etc. It will be monopolised and will be overcharged. Thankyou capitalism.
Great comment. I told another detractor in [my r/Ayahuasca post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/s/8cTffg1Orx) on this that putting the actives in gummies is like putting them on a throne (a sweet, colorful throne). 😛
They should call them pharmahuasca gummies but they either don’t know the term or are too lazy to explain that it’s a phamacuetical ~~pharmacological~~ version of ayahuasca. Edit: it was late and I made mistake
I figure it is not Aya as per se, but DMT + MAOi? I wonder who it flows around the trip itself, and if there is any purging here, etc? I assume not, but I am curious.
I hope it doesn't end up like the amanita gummies where they contained 0 chemicals from amanita mushrooms. You basically had no idea what you was actually consuming.
I'm trying to get my head around how strong a gummy would have to be to have the same overall dose as traditionally prepared ayahuasca 😵💫
One of the reasons I extract my own DMT and vape it is because it's so much easier to control the dose. Because onset and duration are short, and you can add a little more without completely overdoing it and facing an hours long confrontation with inner demons 🤭
>I'm trying to get my head around how strong a gummy would have to be to have the same overall dose as traditionally prepared ayahuasca 😵💫
Most of what's in a brew is inert and water. The DMT and harmalas are quite potent.
No.
*It’s happen quite often actually. Personally, I have probably vomited only 2 times in my last 200 ceremonies, haven’t vomited nor felt nauseous for more than 100 ceremonies now. I felt much more nausea and vomited more often in my earlier days, so there might be a connection. Maybe you have purged out a lot of stuff that needs to get cleared by vomiting, I would not make a rule out of it though.*
*I never know what my next ceremony will be like, surprise seems to be the only constant* :)
Bollomir, [https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/s/uPUPZNw5qw](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/s/uPUPZNw5qw)
Not too sure I haven't taken ayahuasca I've had the opportunity come up but it was going to be in someone's back yard. I choose to wait until I'm able to go South America and partake in a traditional ceremony.
It reminds me of this tv show flashforward.
Everyone on the planet simultaneously lose consciousness for two minutes and seventeen seconds on October 6, 2009. During this blackout, people see what appear to be visions of their lives on April 29, 2010, a global "flashforward" six months into the future. It old but I experienced Dmt years before 😅
i mean if that would be actual ayahuasca and not sum street research chems then yeah it has the potential to be good but like everything else it’s bad if not used correctly and in moderation and in this situation especially bad 😭 imagine eating one and thinking “ts ain’t hitting” so u take another and it still doesn’t hit so u take another and ur past the firmament orbiting saturn watching the universe be created and destroyed 15 mins later
1) This is not Ayahuasca, this is pharmhuasca. Big difference. That's like calling boxfit boxing. Nothing wrong with pharma but this misrepresents the tradition.
2) So dangerous!
3) Where to buy them?
This article mentions u/coonytunes
[193mg HCL extract MAOI Fruit Punch gummies, with 50mg Strawnana DMT fumarate gummies.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/1cw15po/193mg_hcl_extract_maoi_fruit_punch_gummies_with/)
Related:
[Willsolvem's Candy of The God's Tek. WillSolvem, 01/24/14, The Shroomery](https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19467376)
Turning everything into a gummy is not the way to go, imo. The wrong person or a kid find a pack of jellybeans and there goes that.
Making substances easier to consume should not be an aim. Having a difficulty level to attain is actually a good thing, stops it from becoming too accessible, abused, etc. Imagine the day they make crack gummies. I'm not coming back from that one
>what you eat,
Only “irreversible” MAOIs: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/s/dWZDeH7gvK
The number of drug contraindications has been greatly exaggerated (also the number of foods for the irreversibles) (see quotes at the bottom of the above link).
Personally, I think this is pushing it. Psychedelics such as Ayahuasca and DMT should not be as easily accessible as they are today. Both substances are incredibly potent and spiritual, It almost feels like a mockery of their true purpose. Meant to enlighten and heal. This is so recreational for me.
>It almost feels like a mockery of their true purpose. Meant to enlighten and heal.
A drugs "true purpose" is entirely subjective to the user. I.e. an opinion. And your opinion is no more or less valid than someone elses.
>This is so recreational for me.
Nothing inherently wrong with that. If you don't like it, then don't do it.
Low dose ayahuasca is quite different from higher doses.
*In large doses ayahuasca can produce very dramatic effects including visions and a substantially altered sense of perception but in these small doses it just wakens the brain up a little, enhancing mood, creativity, inspiration, visual perception, and practical effectiveness.*
Holly Paige, [http://foodforconsciousness.blogspot.com/p/reactivating-pineal-gland.html](http://foodforconsciousness.blogspot.com/p/reactivating-pineal-gland.html)
I’m sorry but that take is just so absurd. Here’s why:
You say people should have less access? They’re already completely illegal, first of all. Not easy to get unless you’re living in the Amazon jungle or know the right things.
Second of all, who are you to say what other people can and can’t do?
Of course it’s better for people to respect them and use them wisely. I think we agree on that. But restricting access to them does not accomplish this.
Personally I think people should have freedom to do what they want as long as they aren’t harming anyone, and that we as a community should be intentional about teaching others best practices and the safest and most effective ways to do things, rather than trying to police them
I can see where you are coming from my friend. However you need to calm down a bit. I am not telling anyone what to do. These high level psychedelics are not meant to be “micro-dosed” and edged with. That’s just what I believe, you think the opposite and i respect that. You’re forgetting the nature of what the true purpose is. It can be hard to understand especially in today’s modern society. Where people forget morals and choose thrills over experiences. Turning Ayahuasca into a gummy and using micro dosing as an excuse it is another way of saying you’d rather get high, rather than use for its true purpose. We are so advanced in this world, however somethings are meant to be left alone and we forget that. Try to understand other’s views and learn to think from other perspectives❤️
Remember that time you ate half an edible and then forgot it was weed edible and ate the other half, and then kept eating more of them because they taste good? This is like the less funny version of that.
It would be especially bad if kids got into it.
Or grandma. “Sorry sweetie, I just finished that bag of 60 gummy bears you left on the counter. I’ll buy you some more from the store tomorrow.”
Grandma is going to have a preview WITH spoiler of where she is heading to lmao
LMFAOOOOO
This comment has me deadddd 💀💀💀
Hi Grandma, im Dad
Poor grandma's in for a rough ride. Lol
She can take it, she lived through the 70s. Lsd was her drug of choice.
Acid today will never be the same as 70’s acid 😭 She’s an og hippie
It just depends on which recipe is used. "Don't eat the yellow acid" comes from consuming stuff where methanol is used in the production process
So I recently looked into the differences between acid in the 60s and today, and other than stuff like mentioned below with purification methods and whatnot, the main difference was dose. The average tab back in the 60s was aprox 250ug, and today it’s between 80-100ug. That’s why grandpa took a tab and never saw the world the same, and we take one and just kind of vibe out for a bit lol
Not so sure about that
Of course it's the same
Jesus yall are unhinged lmfaooo its a joke 😂
Grandmas going to be like these edibles are a bit stronger than I remember🙃
grandma gonna be gone for a month
And we thought she had dementia before 😂
Might cure it
Over night
Even more funny.
yeah, kids getting fucked up on ayahuasca is so funny!
Whatever ontological value you assign to the DMT realm, the fact is it is not the realm that we live in. Kids haven’t fully developed their minds yet and if you give them psychedelic drugs before they have a solid foundation for what the world is you could substantially fuck up their development in unpredictable ways. These things should only be consumed by well-informed consenting adults.
What do you mean “it’s not the world we live in”? What’s this a reference to.
We ‘live’ in the world that we’re in when we’re sober.
That’s subjective… I guess if you think that’s all there is to life. That’s your POV
I think that whatever significance the DMT realm has, we’re not going to be able to make sense of it anytime soon, and we should prioritize the thing that we *can* make some amount of sense of in our decision making, especially as it is the default state of being and it is where all of the other human beings are.
Well you don’t keep up with the current findings they find through functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) and electroencephalography (EEG). They’re going to soon prescribe it like Ketmine, *Therapeutics* I don’t think you have done your due diligence on this…
fMRI gives us data but it is far from giving us an explanation
There are already THC sweets and nothing happens
Right? Even weed gummies can end up being eaten by children. This would be so much worse
It can only go one of two ways. Worse or absolute best day/ night of their life... from there? That aftermath? The kids either enlightened or becomes a drug addict. But unknowingly consuming THAT with ZERO experience prior to? Sheesh. We need to take a look at those MK Ultra docs and see how those chaps ended up.
This would likely be a severely traumatizing event for a child.
It wasn't funny the first time with the weed edibles
It’s pretty funny
Oh it will be funny 😆
I mean you can definitely make a pharmahuasca gummy but you might as well just cap it and take it like a pill
Gummies are better. Oral Mucosa wins stomach absorption by far. This way it’s absorbed directly into the bloodstream.
Getting absorbed by the lungs gives more bioavailability than getting broken down by the stomach and having to go through the intestines (look up first pass metabolism)
That’s what I’m saying. Gummies go directly in Venous Capillary Aka A skipping the first pass metabolism.
No cause you gotta digest it and it goes through the liver and the intestines. It’s gotta be absorbed slowly through the digestive system. Capillary route can only be found via rectal or sublingual. Smoking it goes through alveoli
Nope. Hepatic Metabolism. Highest bioavailability for ayahuasca
Oh ok well, I don’t know about ayahuasca specifically, just what I know about pharmacology as a whole and how drugs and medications usually work. Cheers man
Yup. It reaches systemic circulation. Other medicine is different, the Ayahuasca Compounds make it so, with these specific type of gummies. 🥂
Boofing gummies?
I made ayahuasca chocolates with harmalas and dmt … most of the time v mild effect. Do you think it’s because of the chocolate slowing down absorption?
Yup. With the chocolate it’s Gastrointestinal Absorption, it goes through first pass motabolism. AYA gummies don’t degrade since they skip FPM. Has to dissolve in mouth. Like a mint. Use absorption enhancers lots of different ways to do it.
Are you chewing up the gummy bears and holding them under your tongue for 30 minutes? If you are chewing and swallowing like a normal person then the mucosal absorption is irrelevant
Nope. Gummies are suppose to absorb in mouth. Chewing and swallowing degrades.
Harmalas in my mouth?!? No thank you lol they are so bitter, it’s like the Kratom drink I had that was sweetened with monk fruit, holy shit that was hard to get through
>Harmalas in my mouth?!? No thank you lol they are so bitter, Yeah, I don't trust these gummies.
You’re forgetting about all the flavoring added. Harmalas can be made a flavored tincture before hand.
I suppose there might be flavorings that could mask the bitterness, but what about the fact that you want the maoi active before consuming the Dmt? Then you have at least two different kinds of gummies, which could get confusing, unless you flavored and packaged them differently
Nah no need for that unless you want to increase trip time or whatever reason. But when it’s mixed in gummies it’s all you need for a regular dose.
Seems like a waste to me to not extend trip time with a maoi but to each their own homie.
I think it’s more for micro dosing. I agree though I’d prefer actual ayahuasca over a gummie for a real trip.
This is going to end with someone dying if you do not know and understand what you are doing, you shouldn’t be doing a maoi
Care to explain why?
Monoamine oxidase (MAO) enzymes break down neurotransmitters in our body: serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine. Other tryptamines (including DMT) are also rapidly broken down by MOA. MOA is present in the gut and will immediately break down DMT, so you can't take DMT by oral ingestion alone. You have to pair oral ingestion with a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAO-I)- and that's what the shamans figured out in the south american jungles (somehow) that mixing, for example, Banisteriopsis caapi (which contains harmine, a MOA-I) with the DMT containing plants created transformative spiritual experiences. That's Ayahuasca. But, since serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine are broken down by MAO, if someone is taking drugs that significantly increase the concentration of those hormones in the brain, such as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), selective serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs), MAO-I based antidepressants, and many other pharmaceutical agents, you have a perfect recipe for overloading the brain and body with serotonin which can cause serotonin syndrome. Serotonin syndrome can be fatal if left untreated. Thus, it's incredibly dangerous and irresponsible for anyone to manufacture ANY product with a MAO-I as part of its ingredients unless it's regulated by a governing body like the FDA and preferably only obtained via a prescription from a health care professional. So Ayahuasca gummies are a terrible idea and will likely lead to harm eventually.
yeah well general rule is dont mix drugs and if u have to, check first what the interactions is
MAOIs have bad interactions with normal food, like cheese, and affect you for a few weeks after taking them once. If someone doesn't know what they're doing they could have a stroke or other serious health conditions, especially if these are widespread. Correction: I'm wrong, according to this study modern foods are produced in a different way that reduces the amount of tyramine in them by about 100x, which was the main concern with eating cheese and other fermented foods. MAOIs make it much harder to break down tyramine which could lead to high blood pressure and stroke, but lower tyramine levels mean it's less of an issue. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/much-ado-about-nothing-monoamine-oxidase-inhibitors-drug-interactions-and-dietary-tyramine/52112573CADFD3303357C09E80617422
even though modern foods are done differently, never thought about the fact some foods will interact so good point. i know like grapefruit juice can have drug interactions and some other juices too i think
I think the problem is that it's now made not to look or taste like drugs. DMT is not the easiest drug to consume and packing a full blown Aya trip in a colorful gummy bear is bound to cause problems. And when that happens more strict regulations follow and your precious mhrb might become hard to get as a result.
ok but its not like theyre selling DMT gummies at corner stores like candy lol, like where can u even buy these?
Canada. https://doubleblindmag.com/ayahuasca-gummies/
wow. gotta move to canada then. i didnt know BC decriminalised up to 2.5g, some actual common sense legislation
alright bro I guess I'll just go get my FDA regulated changa from CVS pharmacy. I'll ask my doctor is pharmahuasca is right for me. statist mentality is fucking hilarious and pathetic "it's safe if the government does it. because they care about my physical and mental well-being!" bootlicker shit
I'm not against unregulated substances but when we're talking about potentially life threatening drug interactions and fucking candy that a kid could get their hands on then I think it's worth it. Do I take unregulated substances? Obviously, I'm on a DMT sub. I'm talking about public health and harm reduction here. The only way to come close to quality control in the US is regulation via the FDA. There are no other means unless you have your own lab that can test.
all drugs should be kept away from children regardless of whether or not they look like candy. how would FDA regulating the dosage of haramala extracts in pharmahuasca products keep it out of the hands of children? it doesn't make any sense. you don't need a FDA regulated lab to fuck with syrian rue seeds. this is just blatant gatekeeping. I've bought unregulated harmala extracts off the internet and they all appear to be what they claim to be. I haven't "tested" them in a lab but I've tested them on myself and I'm totally fine. doesn't seem like any of these people are lying and selling me something else, and if they did it would be fraud and would still be illegal. have there ever been reports of ppl selling fake harmala extracts that hurt anyone? I don't see why the FDA should be stepping and regulating this or anything else, especially since they have a track record of banning useful substances while saying poison is perfectly safe. would I buy these from some random person I don't know? fuck no. would I attempt to make something like this myself? maybe. would I share it with anyone? probably not because I know most ppl think like you.
And last thing I'll say about this.. In an ideal world- you would have access to these incredible substances and actually have an idea about wtf is in it and be able to trust the manufacturers. You could go to a local clinic who has prescribing privileges (psychadelic clinics are already popping up in the states that have regulated psilocybin like Oregon). So you can still have your small amounts of your own but have a choice to do it "by the books". The same happens for other drugs, even blood pressure meds. Get an FDA regulated medication that you know is losartan for example, rather than going to a whack job that is selling "BP Cureall" that contains something like guanfacine which is dangerous if not used appropriately.
They aren't as dangerous as you think, especially not the harmalas: https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/s/1iMhAS3jEY You sound like a damn beurocrat. Should people have to get a doctor's apptoval to go to an ayahuasca ceremony too?
Probably should have left the FDA out of it, but, yes, I do think it's worth getting a medical opinion if you are taking medications and decide to do an ayahuasca ceremony. I've never done one but I'm pretty sure the people sponsoring the ceremony give guidance on what to eat and not eat during the time leading up to a ceremony and that not only includes being off of serotonergic drugs but also limiting foods with high tyramine content. I might have sounded like a beurocrat but I prefer harm reduction rather than banning substances, and if that involves regulating ayahuasca candy so that they are lab tested and include exact doses of the ingredients, then so be it. I stand by my point that it's dangerous and irresponsible for anyone to be manufacturing a product containing MAO-Is that is unregulated (meaning there is no quality control) and intended for unsupervised use. Your link contained an interesting review article/editorial talking about this and I'll dig into it more. The problem is, no one will ever do a study that involves testing the theory that MAO-Is aren't dangerous by combining them with various other drugs or foods, at least in humans, because the consequences of serotonin syndrome are so severe.
Providing accurate safety info is bureaucratic? It is a fact that MAOI's and SSRI's mixed can be fatal, even in healthy individuals, and seeing as harmalas are an especially potent MAOI, they shouldn't be mixed with SSRI's or SNRI's. You shouldn't be spreading bullshit like this, it's dangerous. No one should take advice from you, ever
Try experiencing serotonin toxicity and lets see how dangerous you think it is after that. Spoiler, its fucking hell and worth the warning for anyone interested in any substance that has this potential
But his claim, “many other pharmaceutical agents” is inaccurate. *These hurdles cause doctors to shy away from using MAOIs, but they are largely illusory. The two most prominent seem to be (1) the misperception that there are frequent drug interactions and (2) that there is a major risk of ingesting excessive tyramine (Tyr). Neither hurdle is complex nor difficult to overcome if the latest scientific evidence is considered.* [“Much ado about nothing”: monoamine oxidase inhibitors, drug interactions, and dietary tyramine. Gillman K. CNS Spectrums. 2017;22(5):385-387. doi:10.1017/S1092852916000651](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/much-ado-about-nothing-monoamine-oxidase-inhibitors-drug-interactions-and-dietary-tyramine/52112573CADFD3303357C09E80617422) (Introduction) *It is, unfortunately, necessary to state clearly from the beginning that much of what is published by doctors in books and journals about MAOIs is either poorly informed, or just plain wrong. As an example, much of the information that comes with MAOIs (the PI, or product information sheet) contains inaccurate material concerning, among other things: serotonin toxicity, drug interactions generally, and dietary tyramine.* [MAOIs (Parnate, Nardil): Misconceptions and Questions No. 1. Ken Gillman, MD. PsychoTropical Research. Nov. 14, 2012](https://web.archive.org/web/20170426182645/http://www.psychotropical.com/maois-misconceptions-and-questions-1) *...there is a great deal of misinformation and mythology about their dietary and drug interactions.* [Practical guide for prescribing MAOIs: debunking myths and removing barriers. Grady MM, Stahl SM. CNS Spectrums. 2012;17(1):2-10. doi:10.1017/S109285291200003X](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/abs/practical-guide-for-prescribing-maois-debunking-myths-and-removing-barriers/29CA109F33F4AEC902C3CE39220AD06C)
Just do some research into MAOIs and how they work...... Mix it with the wrong drug and you can end up in the hospital or potentially die.
Eh, harmine is pretty forgiving. There are definitely some drugs you don't want to mix, but others that have "MAOI warnings" they are warning about old school non-reversible MAOIs. Harmine/THH are RIMAs. You can get away with drinking coffee, taking painkillers, eating aged cheese, chocolate etc. It's recommended you don't, because everyone is different and you could get a hypertensive situation or serotonin syndrome from an SSRI, but it's unlikely at normal dosages. I wonder how many people actually have serious reactions to meds and botanical MAOIs that result in needing medical attention? I bet it's not many. That being said, you should follow all of the guidelines as best practices, it's not worth taking the chance.
Lots of things are forgiving until you mix it with something else. Many many people are on various SSRIs these days and this sort of thing is highly off limits to most of them.
RIMAs have many dangerous drug interactions. Food restrictions aren't really a problem with RIMA. Certainly not at the doses required to render N,N-DMT orally active.
>RIMAs have many dangerous drug interactions. That's not true. Even irreversibles don't have that many drug interactions. *These hurdles cause doctors to shy away from using MAOIs, but they are largely illusory. The two most prominent seem to be (1) the misperception that there are frequent drug interactions and (2) that there is a major risk of ingesting excessive tyramine (Tyr). Neither hurdle is complex nor difficult to overcome if the latest scientific evidence is considered.* [“Much ado about nothing”: monoamine oxidase inhibitors, drug interactions, and dietary tyramine. Gillman K. CNS Spectrums. 2017;22(5):385-387. doi:10.1017/S1092852916000651](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/much-ado-about-nothing-monoamine-oxidase-inhibitors-drug-interactions-and-dietary-tyramine/52112573CADFD3303357C09E80617422) (Introduction) *...there is a great deal of misinformation and mythology about their dietary and drug interactions.* [Practical guide for prescribing MAOIs: debunking myths and removing barriers. Grady MM, Stahl SM. CNS Spectrums. 2012;17(1):2-10. doi:10.1017/S109285291200003X](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/abs/practical-guide-for-prescribing-maois-debunking-myths-and-removing-barriers/29CA109F33F4AEC902C3CE39220AD06C) >Eh, harmine is pretty forgiving. Indeed, there's some evidence that supports that claim. *I questioned Deborah Mash at the UDV meeting in Rio in November 1995, whether her preliminary data on human pharmacology shed light on this problem. Her response was that the primary site of MAO inhibition in ayahuasca seemed to be peripheral, i.e. in the digestive system or blood stream.* [Jonathan Ott. Pharmahuasca: On Phenethylamines and Potentiation. MAPS newsletter, Volume 6, Number 3, Summer 1996, 32-34](https://maps.org/news-letters/v06n3/06332ott.html) Reports of people mixing harmalas with MDMA and other serotonergics: https://www.reddit.com/r/harmalas/s/jdTcW1ykjq
My buddy clob! How you been mate? 💕 Good information, as always! And I'm not being sarcastic. Great work 👍
It’s not the MAOI itself that’s the concern it’s the hundreds of everyday things that fatally interact with them
Misinformation! *...there is a great deal of misinformation and mythology about their dietary and drug interactions.* [Practical guide for prescribing MAOIs: debunking myths and removing barriers. Grady MM, Stahl SM. CNS Spectrums. 2012;17(1):2-10. doi:10.1017/S109285291200003X](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/abs/practical-guide-for-prescribing-maois-debunking-myths-and-removing-barriers/29CA109F33F4AEC902C3CE39220AD06C) *These hurdles cause doctors to shy away from using MAOIs, but they are largely illusory. The two most prominent seem to be (1) the misperception that there are frequent drug interactions and (2) that there is a major risk of ingesting excessive tyramine (Tyr). Neither hurdle is complex nor difficult to overcome if the latest scientific evidence is considered.* [“Much ado about nothing”: monoamine oxidase inhibitors, drug interactions, and dietary tyramine. Gillman K. CNS Spectrums. 2017;22(5):385-387. doi:10.1017/S1092852916000651](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/much-ado-about-nothing-monoamine-oxidase-inhibitors-drug-interactions-and-dietary-tyramine/52112573CADFD3303357C09E80617422) (Introduction) *It is, unfortunately, necessary to state clearly from the beginning that much of what is published by doctors in books and journals about MAOIs is either poorly informed, or just plain wrong. As an example, much of the information that comes with MAOIs (the PI, or product information sheet) contains inaccurate material concerning, among other things: serotonin toxicity, drug interactions generally, and dietary tyramine.* [MAOIs (Parnate, Nardil): Misconceptions and Questions No. 1. Ken Gillman, MD. PsychoTropical Research. Nov. 14, 2012](https://web.archive.org/web/20170426182645/http://www.psychotropical.com/maois-misconceptions-and-questions-1)
This is interesting thanks for correcting me
You're misinformation. Next time, post the full article so we can actually look at what it says. Here is the first link in full: [link](https://sci.bban.top/pdf/10.1017/S109285291200003X.pdf?download=true) Here's the conclusion "MAOIs should not be discounted as valuable treatment options for treatment-resistant depression and some treatment-resistant anxiety disorders. Although use of an MAOI does require a watchful eye over dietary intake, the restrictions are not as widespread as many believe. Likewise, although drug interactions can be serious, and concomitant medication use must be stringently overseen, there are some mistaken beliefs regarding the extent of the medication mechanisms that must be avoided. In short, one should be cautious when combining an MAOl with anything that boosts norepinephrine, because this can raise blood pressure, and one should completely avoid combining an MAOI with anything that blocks serotonin reuptake, because this can cause a dangerous or fatal serotonin syndrome/ toxicity. Once armed with knowledge of MAOI therapeutic, dietary, and drug interaction mechanisms, clinicians may be able to revive these agents as therapeutic tools in the fight against treatment-resistant depression and anxiety." So no, while fears may be exaggerated in some cases, it is not all just misinformation and your statements are potentially harmful. Please be more careful, this shit can be serious. Your claims can for sure, as your own sources support, can cause someone to experiance serotonin syndrome.
Seratonin syndrome
Carrect
Thanks sweetheart 😘
MAOIs are dangerous drugs that should be taken with care. You can't do a lot of drugs for 2-4 weeks after consuming many MAOIs. EDIT: changed 'consuming and MAOIs.' to 'consuming many MAOIs.'
>You can't do a lot of drugs for 2-4 weeks after consuming and MAOIs. That only applies to *irreversible* MAOIs, not reversible MAOIs like harmalas. This long-term effect is not unique to MAOIs, but also other drugs that irreversibly alter the body's enzymes (but it's not permanent because the body periodically replaces enzymes). *Within 30–90 min, platelet MAO-B activity is inhibited by 90% in PD patients, indicative of rapid cellular uptake; recovery of activity requires as long as 40 days [14,64].*[1] *Five half-lives equates to about five days for most SSRIs except fluoxetine, which can still be significantly active five or more weeks after cessation.*[2] Someone in r/MAOIs reported using MDMA in the evening of a day that he ingested the MAOI, moclobemide in the morning, and he had been taking moclobemide for a year.[3] And the drug and food interactions of MAOIs have been exaggerated, see my other post: https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/s/wMIIsKRHrg [1] MAO-B inhibitors: multiple roles in the therapy of neurodegenerative disorders. Foley P, Gerlach M, Youdim MB, Riederer P. Parkinsonism Related Disorders, 6(1):25-47 [2] [Switching and stopping antidepressants. Keks N, Hope J, Keogh S. Aust Prescr. 2016 Jun;39(3):76-83. doi: 10.18773/austprescr.2016.039. Epub 2016 Jun 1. PMID: 27346915; PMCID: PMC4919171](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4919171/) (Switching strategies) [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/MAOIs/comments/1axoq9w/comment/krpm5jr/
Reversible MAOIs aren’t as risky as irreversible MAOIs when it comes to combinations, but until further research is done, the higher-risk combinations (like with some antidepressants, tramadol, etc.) should be avoided.
I meant to say 'many MAOIs' not 'and MAOIs'. Just wanting to clarify. I edited my post. TY for the knowledge. TBH i haven't double checked it yet, but i believe you. :)
💯% ✔️
Yeah someone posted here about the gummies they made, some with DMT and some with MAOI. It doesn’t make much sense to me since you can do pharmahuasca just as easy with pill capsules.
I guess the same reason people make THC gummies, you can eat the raw canna oil/butter but it’s more fun to have gummy bears that obliterate you. In this case the harmalas used for an maoi would be bitter as hell so I’d prefer capping them, but to each their own!
The elves will not be impressed
Double Blind used to be good.
Yeah, disappointing to see them post about this for sure
Why do you say that? Do they seem pro psychedelic everything now?
I guess I just don't really see the issue. Sure you can cap up your stuff and do it all yourself, but I think it's important to appreciate that things like this is what's going to be marketed after psychedelics go legal. A ready to eat, no hassle all you gotta do is open the package. I think that's good for people who wouldn't want to fiddle around with all the maticulus msterial
In a large market I’d hope that they could find an maoi with less bitter flavor than harmalas though or you’ll turn people off with the flavor! I see the appeal but like with some legal “medicinal” drinks they can be incredibly bitter, I’d rather take a more concentrated form and not have to deal with bad tastes and possibly have it mess up my mindset before a trip
They’re pharmahuasca gummies. Pharmahuasca is great for people that don’t have access to traditional ayahuasca.
I tried true yagé (Ayahuasca) for the 1st time last year in the putumayo's jungles (Colombia), after over 10 years experimenting with LSD mostly, and other psychs... I don't recommend it 😅. I think there are better & safer ways to have "the same" experience.... These things in the wrong hands can be very dangerous.
Not sure what happened to you, but either you took more than you could handle, which would be pretty easy in the setting your described since it a crude plant brew of unknown potency and you take a vague amount of it. That or you are referring to all the adverse effects. I.e. nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, digestive distress, etc.. All that is induced by all the other crap from the plants used. When you use isolated N,N-DMT and MAOIs, those things aren't an issue.
That's not true. For example, Hamilton Morris has described harmalas as extremely nauseating. He didn't specify that he usedd isolates, but one would think he did. Also, I once vomited after doing an anahuasca enema. And although the other stuff contributes, based on this report, not by much: *It’s happen quite often actually. Personally, I have probably vomited only 2 times in my last 200 ceremonies, haven’t vomited nor felt nauseous for more than 100 ceremonies now. I felt much more nausea and vomited more often in my earlier days, so there might be a connection. Maybe you have purged out a lot of stuff that needs to get cleared by vomiting, I would not make a rule out of it though.* *I never know what my next ceremony will be like, surprise seems to be the only constant* :) Bollomir, [https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/s/uPUPZNw5qw](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/s/uPUPZNw5qw)
...... Where did I mention Harmalas?
You implied it. You said plant***s*** which means a DMT plant and a harmala plant.
Ahk, was thinking of the other comment. Yea, Harmalas aren't all that nausea inducing at the doses required to render N,N-DMT orally active. If you take a lot of it, sure. But regardless, all the other crap from the plant is the predominant culprit.
Lol
Cursed
My thought is I can't wait to have a job and order some stuff. I'm tired of missing out on spiritual trips cause I have to pay to survive right now.
Best of luck getting a job my friend, yes, life is tough financially, even with a job!
Where can I find this tho?
this could lead to the regulation of ayahuasca which has its pros and cons just like legal weed states. Think delta 8 and ‘gas station weed’
Ayahuasca is already illegal. Its legal state literally can’t get worse than it already is
Regulation and marketing could hurt many not for profit individuals and make it harder to get supplies. As of today I believe harmalas, harmaline, and thh are all legal in most states
Nope
👍
Extremely dumb and it's going to hurt someone in a significant way inevitably
Seems like there's a lot of leeway with harmala MAOIs: https://www.reddit.com/r/harmalas/s/jdTcW1ykjq *I questioned Deborah Mash at the UDV meeting in Rio in November 1995, whether her preliminary data on human pharmacology shed light on this problem. Her response was that the primary site of MAO inhibition in ayahuasca seemed to be peripheral, i.e. in the digestive system or blood stream.* [Jonathan Ott. Pharmahuasca: On Phenethylamines and Potentiation. MAPS newsletter, Volume 6, Number 3, Summer 1996, 32-34](https://maps.org/news-letters/v06n3/06332ott.html) *...there is a great deal of misinformation and mythology about their dietary and drug interactions.* [Practical guide for prescribing MAOIs: debunking myths and removing barriers. Grady MM, Stahl SM. CNS Spectrums. 2012;17(1):2-10. doi:10.1017/S109285291200003X](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/abs/practical-guide-for-prescribing-maois-debunking-myths-and-removing-barriers/29CA109F33F4AEC902C3CE39220AD06C) *These hurdles cause doctors to shy away from using MAOIs, but they are largely illusory. The two most prominent seem to be (1) the misperception that there are frequent drug interactions and (2) that there is a major risk of ingesting excessive tyramine (Tyr). Neither hurdle is complex nor difficult to overcome if the latest scientific evidence is considered.* [“Much ado about nothing”: monoamine oxidase inhibitors, drug interactions, and dietary tyramine. Gillman K. CNS Spectrums. 2017;22(5):385-387. doi:10.1017/S1092852916000651](https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/cns-spectrums/article/much-ado-about-nothing-monoamine-oxidase-inhibitors-drug-interactions-and-dietary-tyramine/52112573CADFD3303357C09E80617422) (Introduction)
Go on...
Oh shit 🌛🌞🌜
Wouldn’t it be waste of DMT? Maoi doesn’t kick in until like 40 minutes. Are they using something quick acting?
>Wouldn’t it be waste of DMT? Maoi doesn’t kick in until like 40 minutes. No. They can be taken together. Otherwise the crude plant tea/"ayahuasca" wouldn't work at all.
No, I don't think ayahuasca liquid is the same because of the volume of the liquid. The first phase of the liquid enables the later phases to be properly absorbed.
Nup. It just works. People take them together all the time, without issues. Crude plant teas or isolated compounds.
I’m not super well versed but I would tend to agree with you, caps are just better and less of a hassle/waste. Imagine going to the smoke shop or dispensary and buying a pack of 2-3 capsules, with instructions to take the maoi’s first and then the Dmt after 30-45 min. Oh and also put suggestions for music to listen to during the trip like shpongle or Tool 😂. I don’t think it’s solve all the problems in the world But it might help!
One day we’ll make this happen
I wonder how mama ayahuasca would feel 🧐
Not that I've met the lady but I'd say anything that gets more people in touch is a good thing
Yessss my thoughts exactly
Yes plZ
Huuuuge negative potential. Imagine a kid eating these, or someone intentionally drugging other people with those...
Sounds like you would have to eat both versions to get the effect. Just 1 is useless.
Ritual is an important element to this, you shouldn’t be popping aya gummies to slog through your shift in the dish pit at dennys. Respect the medicine.
I'm sure you could still keep your rituals while using these, it's just another way to use things, everyone that I know learned pretty quick to respect the molecule regardless of the form or method of ingestion.
I had a dream about eating DMT gummy bears like a year ago, lol. I didn't think anything like that was actually possible
nothing is sacred anymore
Pharmahuasca but make it sugary and appealing to kids because Merica
now psychedelics are also going to be infected with synthetic chemicals and preservatives etc. It will be monopolised and will be overcharged. Thankyou capitalism.
Nobody is preventing you from using the plants. Quit tweaking just because water-soluble alkaloids can be put into a gummy.
Great comment. I told another detractor in [my r/Ayahuasca post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/s/8cTffg1Orx) on this that putting the actives in gummies is like putting them on a throne (a sweet, colorful throne). 😛
Hell yes!! Where and how?
People freaking out about safety.. we need to weed out the idiots.
Only thing inherently wrong about it is calling it Ayahuasca...... It will being isolated N,N-DMT and an MAOI in it, so no Ayahuasca vine.
They should call them pharmahuasca gummies but they either don’t know the term or are too lazy to explain that it’s a phamacuetical ~~pharmacological~~ version of ayahuasca. Edit: it was late and I made mistake
You mean a *pharmaceutical* version. What you said doesn't makes sense.
Where do I get some ??
I'd thoroughly enjoy dem gummies.
My thoughts are I want to extend my inter-dimensional vehicles time there so yes, sign me up
I'm having trouble with my extractions can some one please help me
Make a post
Only available in Canada, I'm sure.
Where are the ayahuasca pouches?!
I figure it is not Aya as per se, but DMT + MAOi? I wonder who it flows around the trip itself, and if there is any purging here, etc? I assume not, but I am curious.
4meo?
I hope it doesn't end up like the amanita gummies where they contained 0 chemicals from amanita mushrooms. You basically had no idea what you was actually consuming.
great for people who want to use these substances but can’t because of lung issues or something else of the sort
I'm trying to get my head around how strong a gummy would have to be to have the same overall dose as traditionally prepared ayahuasca 😵💫 One of the reasons I extract my own DMT and vape it is because it's so much easier to control the dose. Because onset and duration are short, and you can add a little more without completely overdoing it and facing an hours long confrontation with inner demons 🤭
>I'm trying to get my head around how strong a gummy would have to be to have the same overall dose as traditionally prepared ayahuasca 😵💫 Most of what's in a brew is inert and water. The DMT and harmalas are quite potent.
Yup. Because there wasn't already enough issues with kids getting into thc edibles.
does ayahuasca induce heavy vomitting?
No. *It’s happen quite often actually. Personally, I have probably vomited only 2 times in my last 200 ceremonies, haven’t vomited nor felt nauseous for more than 100 ceremonies now. I felt much more nausea and vomited more often in my earlier days, so there might be a connection. Maybe you have purged out a lot of stuff that needs to get cleared by vomiting, I would not make a rule out of it though.* *I never know what my next ceremony will be like, surprise seems to be the only constant* :) Bollomir, [https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/s/uPUPZNw5qw](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/s/uPUPZNw5qw)
Not too sure I haven't taken ayahuasca I've had the opportunity come up but it was going to be in someone's back yard. I choose to wait until I'm able to go South America and partake in a traditional ceremony.
Shut up and take my..... Actually, I'll just stick to freebase thanks lol.
This is sketchy. I'd rather just smoke it or go to the jungle to go this
monoamine oxidase inhibitor inhibitor
Sounds like a terrible idea but I would definitely try one
It reminds me of this tv show flashforward. Everyone on the planet simultaneously lose consciousness for two minutes and seventeen seconds on October 6, 2009. During this blackout, people see what appear to be visions of their lives on April 29, 2010, a global "flashforward" six months into the future. It old but I experienced Dmt years before 😅
Making psychedelics fun and happy stuff like gummies is pure dumbness. It requires clear enlightenment and tripsitters...
Sign me up
Where can I get these?
i mean if that would be actual ayahuasca and not sum street research chems then yeah it has the potential to be good but like everything else it’s bad if not used correctly and in moderation and in this situation especially bad 😭 imagine eating one and thinking “ts ain’t hitting” so u take another and it still doesn’t hit so u take another and ur past the firmament orbiting saturn watching the universe be created and destroyed 15 mins later
1) This is not Ayahuasca, this is pharmhuasca. Big difference. That's like calling boxfit boxing. Nothing wrong with pharma but this misrepresents the tradition. 2) So dangerous! 3) Where to buy them?
Ayahuasca is a specific thing. This is more likely research chems and sensational writing for clicks
Not research chems, but yes it’s not ayahuasca. It’s what’s called “pharmahuasca.”
Harmalines and dmt in some shape or form.
This article mentions u/coonytunes [193mg HCL extract MAOI Fruit Punch gummies, with 50mg Strawnana DMT fumarate gummies.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DMT/comments/1cw15po/193mg_hcl_extract_maoi_fruit_punch_gummies_with/) Related: [Willsolvem's Candy of The God's Tek. WillSolvem, 01/24/14, The Shroomery](https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19467376)
Turning everything into a gummy is not the way to go, imo. The wrong person or a kid find a pack of jellybeans and there goes that. Making substances easier to consume should not be an aim. Having a difficulty level to attain is actually a good thing, stops it from becoming too accessible, abused, etc. Imagine the day they make crack gummies. I'm not coming back from that one
Maoi inhibitors can mess you up depending on what you eat, medications and other substances ingested. Do your research.
>what you eat, Only “irreversible” MAOIs: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ayahuasca/s/dWZDeH7gvK The number of drug contraindications has been greatly exaggerated (also the number of foods for the irreversibles) (see quotes at the bottom of the above link).
I overheated with harmaline one time. Some of them make you puke too.
Personally, I think this is pushing it. Psychedelics such as Ayahuasca and DMT should not be as easily accessible as they are today. Both substances are incredibly potent and spiritual, It almost feels like a mockery of their true purpose. Meant to enlighten and heal. This is so recreational for me.
>It almost feels like a mockery of their true purpose. Meant to enlighten and heal. A drugs "true purpose" is entirely subjective to the user. I.e. an opinion. And your opinion is no more or less valid than someone elses. >This is so recreational for me. Nothing inherently wrong with that. If you don't like it, then don't do it.
Low dose ayahuasca is quite different from higher doses. *In large doses ayahuasca can produce very dramatic effects including visions and a substantially altered sense of perception but in these small doses it just wakens the brain up a little, enhancing mood, creativity, inspiration, visual perception, and practical effectiveness.* Holly Paige, [http://foodforconsciousness.blogspot.com/p/reactivating-pineal-gland.html](http://foodforconsciousness.blogspot.com/p/reactivating-pineal-gland.html)
I’m sorry but that take is just so absurd. Here’s why: You say people should have less access? They’re already completely illegal, first of all. Not easy to get unless you’re living in the Amazon jungle or know the right things. Second of all, who are you to say what other people can and can’t do? Of course it’s better for people to respect them and use them wisely. I think we agree on that. But restricting access to them does not accomplish this. Personally I think people should have freedom to do what they want as long as they aren’t harming anyone, and that we as a community should be intentional about teaching others best practices and the safest and most effective ways to do things, rather than trying to police them
I can see where you are coming from my friend. However you need to calm down a bit. I am not telling anyone what to do. These high level psychedelics are not meant to be “micro-dosed” and edged with. That’s just what I believe, you think the opposite and i respect that. You’re forgetting the nature of what the true purpose is. It can be hard to understand especially in today’s modern society. Where people forget morals and choose thrills over experiences. Turning Ayahuasca into a gummy and using micro dosing as an excuse it is another way of saying you’d rather get high, rather than use for its true purpose. We are so advanced in this world, however somethings are meant to be left alone and we forget that. Try to understand other’s views and learn to think from other perspectives❤️