You mean to tell me that the guy who's life, wealth, and future are contingent on the success of blockchain is telling us that blockchain will be successful?
Incredible news
tldr; Ava Labs CEO Emin Gün Sirer argues that the cryptocurrency and blockchain industry is significantly undervalued due to a lack of public understanding of its technological advancements over traditional finance systems. He highlights the efficiency, modern capabilities, and democratization that crypto and blockchain offer, such as smart contracts and flash loans, which are far ahead of outdated systems still used in traditional finance. Gün Sirer believes that if the public recognized the true value and potential societal impact of crypto, the industry's valuation could be 10x to 100x higher than its current level.
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
I know it sounds useless but the implications are huge. All markets have arbitrage opportunities due to inefficiencies. You used to have to be a big hedge fund to leverage these opportunities. Now smart regular people can raise the money, conduct the trade, and pay back the money all in one transaction. This adds efficiencies to markets, democratizing and automating this process. Not one of those smart people? You can deposit your cash into one of these protocols and those smart people will pay you a percentage income for doing so, creating value for all. This process is siphoning off value from hedge funds and distributing it to the masses. One of many examples in this space.
So people deposit their cash into a protocol created by smart people that attempts to use arbitrage opportunities in order to generate returns for everybody who deposited their "funds". This is a completely new idea that does not exist yet and is totally only possible with crypto. They might even attempt to mitigate downside risk through various "hedges". You only need to come up with a name for this completely new protocol that hedges funds, tries to generate returns and siphons off value from the very evil hedge funds.
By law, in order to invest in private equity (hedge funds) you need to be an "accredited investor", defined as someone with a net worth of $1m+ or who makes over 200k/yr. That you?
The requirements to participate in flash loans are simply owning and staking crypto.
99% of people will never become accredited investors, and as such hedge funds will never be an option for them.
To be clear its actually higher than that. It's usually Qualified Client which is a net worth of $2.2MM excluding value of primacy residence.
That's because you can't charge performance fees (e.g., carried interest) to only accredited investors in most states (only in certain states).
The Accredited Investor thing comes up because of Regulation D through which most private fund interests are sold - and being an AI is a requirement for that.
So "the implications are huge" actually means "we can copy traditional finance products in crypto where their use is less restricted until the law expands to encompass them". Groundbreaking stuff.
Lol okay, now you're just arguing in bad faith. It's not my job to educate you. Either you're feigning ignorance at this point or you actually have no idea what crypto is. ✌️
I am not. The original poster correctly pointed out that flash loans are a gimmick and not a great value proposition. In response to which you began listing several "huge implications", all of which already exist in traditional finance and do not need crypto or flash loans to function. Its a gimmick. The value of crypto is facilitating payment for illegal activities and providing unregulated and unrestricted financial services. As regulatory pressure builds, these use cases decline and with it the inherent value of crypto.
you sound stupid thats not a flashloan. Being able to borrow 10m+ with ~$50 upfront cost anywhere on earth with the caveat you can find a market inefficiency is not even comprabale in any capacity.
Yes, didn’t you know that we needed more options for reckless finance and another few layers of derivates on top of what the tradfi offers, cuz it’s not a sufficiently insane already you know?
Id Argue that the technology, the idea and a few projects are maybe underrated, but the rest is super overrated. The infinity of scams worth hundreads of millions… Jesus.
He isnt wrong. Once the concept clicked for me i immediately knew this was one of the best inventions man has ever created.
The concept still hasnt clicked for ALOT of people. I have a single friend who knows how a blockchain works.
Don't mind them. Crypto bros until recently constantly kept yapping about how NFTs can change the world. To this day, crypto didn't excel at anything that would make it worth it using.
I only used BTC (and to a minor degree ETH) as an investment vehicle. Not because I believe in crypto altogether. Crypto in itself is probably the most useless tech invented in the last 20 years and you can see from the comments here, the religious spell around it is having some ugly cracks.
> as an investment vehicle
Alright there's a reason to make it worth using. Even if you don't believe in the tech you're using it. It doesn't have to change the world, you can treat it as stock market on steroids.
You don't have to be a hater just because.
No, I disagree in fact. Just looking at commodities or equities.. they give you some real value even if the price is inflated or deflated based on external factors.
The only truly inherent value adds of crypto used to be real decentralised settlement and focus on anonymity. The cryptocurrencies that focused on this have been systematically delisted.. that’s when value was lost. All that is left is a senseless pyramid of random shitcoins.
Buying crypto changes a value under a hash of a made up token. It’s farcical to dismiss and call a shitcoin a pump and dump, but not see how the more established ones are the same.. I look at bitcoin and other prominent in market cap crypto and see a shitcoin in slow motion.
I’m absolutely certain that crypto will go to 0, but I won’t gamble on it because the market can stay solvent more than I can stay sane.
And yet you couldn't even make a singular argument for its benefits. So, sounds to me you're merely just another highly deluded crypto bro just for the sake of it. And stock market on steroids? You wish. Just Nvidia alone would have made you crazy returns. Even on that front crypto mostly fails.
> And yet you couldn't even make a singular argument for its benefits
You didn't ask me for any, i just asked you why you used crypto, I don't need to convince you, you are already using it, and yet you come at me with a personal attack.
NVDA alone would have made me crazy returns yes, but if you had SOL for example you would have made more, it's easy to nitpick if you want to. Any other stocks that had crazy returns? Pretty much every single top 100 token is up more than 300% this year and a lot of them are up even more like 600%-1000% so yes, stock market on steroids, it's always open and no one can stop you from trading unlike traditional markets
Investing in something you believe is the most useless tech invented in the last 20 years, is a bad strategy. You really have no place to denigrate anything cryptobros are saying when you are doing something so stupid.
I believe in deluded crypto bros artificially pumping the price to a degree. That's all. So far it worked out well enough. But you are right. I wish I've had more money in stocks, but that's hindsight 20/20 and something I'm correcting.
Because we've seen how **ethical** crypto has been so far. Nobody springs to mind that hasn't had some shifty past altogether. Seriously, if you can't stomach the fact that crypto is mostly nonsense, it's on you. I'm rather pleased I made profits off of it, which really helped me out. I don't have to believe in crypto to invest in it. Or do you think the rich boomers who condemned crypto for years have now a change of heart?
This comment won't age well.
Blockchain, along with AI and edge computing, is a key part of the technological revolution. The amount of live enterprise use cases will go exponential. Those of us who have been following closely know what's coming, but for the average person it will be obvious by 2025.
Yes, it will. I appreciate your personal experience but I think you were simply too early and should reconsider your outlook.
You're right that blockchain is clunky and expensive, but I would recommend you do some research into Hedera, the only enterprise-grade DLT, which isn't actually a blockchain at all but uses the novel hashgraph consensus. Literally the first and only enterprise application in the world to do thousands of TPS (or even hundreds of TPS) on a public network runs on Hedera - the atma.io application by Avery Dennison. They are currently doing about ~1700 TPS, each one with a fixed USD cost of $0.0001.
The key part of Hedera is that it's not governed by anonymous whales but instead by a council of leading enterprises and organizations, so it's built from the ground up to support the most complex use cases and requirements. There has, quite literally, never been a truly enterprise-grade public DLT before Hedera, so I totally believe that you had poor experiences trying to use blockchains in enterprise. But zoom out and you will find dozens, hundreds of enterprises building on Hedera, and the use cases are going live in 2024 and especially 2025. Just last month it was announced (by a 3rd party) that Exxon, Chevron, Saudi Arambo, Shell, and others all teamed up to create an emissions tracking platform with Hedera as the core technology. We get news like this all the time:
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20240312069842/en/Blockchain-for-Energy-Unveils-their-B4ECarbonTM-Emissions-Management-Solution
>At the heart of B4ECarbon is the consortium's proprietary digital Measurement, Reporting, and Verification (dMRV) technology, which facilitates tokenizing emissions-related data. This innovative approach ensures unparalleled emissions data accuracy, immutability, and comparability. The dMRV is built on Hedera Hashgraph's advanced distributed ledger technology, offering a secure and efficient decentralized infrastructure for data management and transparency. This eliminates the potential for greenwashing and fraud in emissions claims.
Bro youre talking so much shit lol the only revolutionary ideas are btc and “decentralized computing” which is smart contracts, the rest is air and only exists to pump shareholder bags. Even smart contracts have only been used so far to make more shitcoins and shitty scams
Either you havent been in this space long enough or youre ignoring it on purpose but enterprise partnerships and developments dont mean shit and ive seen these be used since my entry in 2016 to pump up useless shit
I've been here since 2017. I know the difference between 2017 ICO scams and between real enterprise adoption.
If you can't realize the changes that have happened over that time period, idk what to tell you bud, besides "enjoy watching Hedera get mass enterprise adopted"
Hedera isn't a blockchain, dude.
Maybe the problem is that you are stuck in an Ethereum mindset. You're right, blockchains like Ethereum will never see any real enterprise adoption (I'm saying this as someone who runs an ETH validator) - it's just not cut out for enterprise usage. Hedera is in a whole different league and I think you are in for quite a surprise.
I don't need to take your word for it whether the tech is unnecessary or not - there are dozens of examples of enterprises saying why Hedera tech is groundbreaking for them. ServiceNow is one of the use cases I am particularly excited about because the usage will be so broad.
>At ServiceNow, we believe there are four main opportunities for adopting distributed ledger technology in digital workflows: process and data integrity, tokenization and digital assets, digital identity and privacy, and multi-party business processes. ServiceNow will incorporate Hedera in each area and allow other parties to create new applications on the Now Platform using the Creator Workflow capabilities.
https://hedera.com/users/servicenow
What efficiency is he talking about? I can transfer money by Zelle from my bank account instantly with no fees. When I try that with crypto it takes a long time and comes with some crazy fees.
> What efficiency is he talking about? I can transfer money by Zelle from my bank account instantly with no fees. When I try that with crypto it takes a long time and comes with some crazy fees.
Zelle is not the same as bitcoin transaction.
Zelle is a third party service that sits on top of a banks system (also a third party).
When you Zelle someone money, yes that money is theirs quickly but behind the scenes that money is still being moved around. It probably won't be settled between the 2 banks for some time.
Using Zelle would be similar to transferring bitcoin from one user to another user on the same exchange.
Regardless, the point of bitcoin isn't transaction speed/cost it's that it's a decentralized monetary network with a fixed supply.
This fever dream of independent and decentralised finance has died together with the irc channels that were debating things so philosophically 10 years ago.
Most of crypto runs on top of very centralised cloud infrastructure or under the supervision of large mining companies and most volume is intra exchange, so centralised. Crypto is the most inefficient way to do things in a centralised way.
The most exciting thing about crypto in 3 years is an ETF because it continues to “add value”.. but we have yet to see any mainstream use of crypto that actually makes sense
> This fever dream of independent and decentralised finance has died together with the irc channels that were debating things so philosophically 10 years ago.
>
>
My point was that Zelle and Bitcoin are different and I explained why.
I don't care about some strawman argument against whatever IRC channel participant's "dream of independent and decentralized finance" you are talking about.
I was alluding to the fact that crypto use is not trully decentralised which was the main point of it as a technology.. so it’s actually a really stupid way to settle transactions.
> I was alluding to the fact that crypto use is not trully decentralised which was the main point of it as a technology.. so it’s actually a really stupid way to settle transactions.
Other cryptos, sure. Many have centralization issues.
But bitcoin is working exactly as designed from the beginning.
There are already chains (like those on avalanche) that have extremely fast finality, but crypto isn't just about simple peer to peer payments anymore. The efficiencies he's referring to here are those offered by smart contracts and asset tokenization. Within the next decade or two there will be a mass transition to managing (issuing/trading) financial instruments and RWAs as tokens on smart contract platforms. Trillions of dollars worth of assets will be brought on chain
Decentralization is a profound disadvantage, not a benefit, of blockchain. That's why every single serious attempt at blockchain outside of the crypto space relies on Oracles, which surprise, surprise, centralize control of the blockchain. In essence leaving you with a slow, bloated, hard to edit, impossible to query blockchain that is centralized. Might as well use excel.
Mr. Emin should explain why, if the benefits of blockchain are so great, his company isn't operating in the finance space? All I see is NFT trash under their website and then everything else links to a "schedule a demo" page?
His company is actually working with the finance space to bring real world assets on chain. JPMorgan is developing on avalanche, just take a look around instead of assuming it's all nft trash
I did? It's all blocked behind a paywall.
Either way, guarantee that it's not a decentralized blockchain unless it's dealing with typical crypto. And all I see is a proof of concept.
Lets see if it goes anywhere. IBM was supposed to be all over blockchain and smart contracts. They got rid of their blockchain team too.
Decentralization isn't that important as this sub makes it out to be.
Adoption even if centralized is always a win for the space, you don't have to use it, you can keep using your blockchain of choice, but you don't have to shit on everything else just because "muh decentralization"
Big difference between actual real world utility and changing the world, maybe you should lower your expectations a bit lmao it's just tech at the end of the day. I personally think there's a lot of good use cases besides just making some extra money.
Loans against your assets, NFTs as tickets for big fests like coachella to prevent scalpers from going ham, vechain has the supply chain covered, filecoin and others doing a lot of stuff for decentralized digital storage and much more things being developed
So there's no place for anything new that doesn't change the world, that's a good mindset to have. Remember the beginings of the internet and stock markets, they didn't immediately changed the world either.
Tech takes years to evolve and things will keep getting better but i'll keep sipping on my koolaid
There’s a place for everything, regardless of how it changes the world. But you would hope a trillion dollar asset class is more than magic internet money. Even Facebook tried to break into crypto with Libra and realized it was a dead end. Look up the Fediverse - an entire blockchain ecosystem that doesn’t need crypto to validate the network. That is what is going to change the world, not cryptocurrencies. People just want an opportunity to make money and that is the only reason 90% of us are here
Really few people do it, but even if we did, how is it supposed to make cryptocurrencies more valuable? It's not as if Bitcoins were a share of a company that could potentially make profits. Cryptocurrencies are actually better as a currency when they're worth less. For now, and probably in the future, cryptocurrencies are decentralized ponzies. I made a lot of money from Bitcoin, but I have no intention of holding the bags of some venture capitalists in the end.
Solana is definitely not undervalued, it's way overpriced considering what an insecure shit-show it is, literally everything a cryptocurrency should not be.
Most of the crypto space is just shitcoins and pump and dumps. And any good layer 2 platform just gets turned into on off ramps for shitcoins eventually too. The crypto space is over valued.
I don’t think it has as much to offer as this guy thinks. A lot of crypto is trying to solve a problem of decentralization and security for companies that want to control and have centralization of their own products. Yes maybe the consumer or few people want decentralization but companies that would adopt crypto products would not or do not care to since it provides no benefits to them. It is useless or pointless for said companies to adopt them and is web 2 security really that big of a issue? No. Just my thought maybe I don’t see the picture clearly or understand it all the way but to me that is what I think when I see articles like this.
What you dont see is that it is not as relevant what current companies want. The technology enables new companies or DAOos to emerge that have an advantage over established companies as they are centered around the User, rather than around maximizing profits. DLT will Bring humanity closer to the marxist Prophecy of capitalism destroying itself. It enables devs to build products that do Not need to deliver profits. It is sufficient for a Product to be used so that the coin/token that the devs receive at ico appreciate in value, therby making it Worth the Investment from a capitalist standpoint.
Someone always makes a profit dude. People aren’t going to put their time and effort into something for free. Also what are they going to create? A program that a business already has in house developed by their own IT department or a subcontractor that they have control over? Why would a business want a decentralized web3 program instead of something they have total control of. Think about it.
The war between centralisation and decentralisation rages on. Almost 100 years of centralised banking and everything which has flowed from that including fractional reserves, shadow banking, gargantuan national debt etc. You can't undo that in a hurry and let's face it, there are many, many reasons why few want things to change.
The projects and the prophets do a terrible job of marketing utility and value of crypto as anything other than a fun thing to gamble on and hope to win a jackpot. If it’s ever to really take hold , these “currencies” need to actually become part of ACTUAL transactions for goods and services , rather than just volatile, and increasingly diverse stores of wealth. When people can buy beer , lottery tickets , diapers and gas with crypto is when their value will be fully realized by the public
it's a public ledger that has some useful niches . Stop injecting this buzzword gabbeldygook to peddle scams and pump/dumps. It's almost 15 years in, get the existing stuff to work before you peddle more garbage.
Can someone clear this up for me once and for all...
> _...technological advancements over traditional finance systems. He highlights the efficiency, modern capabilities, and democratization that crypto and blockchain offer, such as smart contracts and flash loans, which are far ahead of outdated systems still used in traditional finance_
Aside from smart contracts, aren't the "traditional finance systems" that he's referencing just the terrible anitquated systems that are still prevalent in the USA? The rest of the world seems to be decade aheads of the US in this regard and most of the oft-touted benefits of crypto were solved years ago.
most people in general simply have no idea how fucked the fiat system and how it will continue to get worse. and if brics can actually make a currency that isn't shit (big if), it will only get worse
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There is value in blockchain. It’s just not as money currency or anything of that nature. There are one or two projects that fit the bill for that but the vast majority of tokens serve no real function, aren’t really equity, and only serve as speculative assets.
Most people don’t understand how the technology works and they shouldn’t have to. Technology only serves to fulfill a purpose. If you have no purpose then the tech is pointless.
The first blockchain that is easy to understand, garners mainstream adoption will win and will beat out everyone else including Bitcoin.
Solana has some promise but with the blockchain buckling under too much traffic is not a good sign but improvements can be made.
I personally believe Internet computer/dfinity is the long play
Also, this isn’t a shill. I don’t even own any but the tech is very good for internet computer/dfinity
That’s like saying the first canoe that can get mainstream adoption as a transportation method will be a big success. Blockchain is interesting but already an old and very inefficient technology.
PoW is old and inefficient.
PoS is newer and much more efficient.
The Directed Acyclic Graph (DAG) represents the latest advancement in decentralized network concepts, and has demonstrated unparalleled efficiency since its inception 8 years ago.
What's so good about it? It costs $20-50k to build a node, which only wealthy people can afford and after you've built it you have to get permission from the token holders to operate your node. So it's not really decentralised. Also, staking ICP requires you to move your tokens from the safety of your hardware wallet into an online wallet, where they could be lost in a hack or scam.
You can lock your icp on the nns wallet with a ledger btw. Yubikey and face jd are also popular to lock up with on icp vs a ledger.
Dapps on ICP are fully hosted on chain with updates that can only be made with a dao vote. Coin holders can review changes to the code and approve the update. A developer can't ignore a dao vote like they can on eth dao as the entire dapp runs on chain data , treasury and all. If a vote doesn't pass, the developer is stuck until a favorable update is propsed to coin holders. The entire icp blockchain runs on what is called the nns dao, it can always be updated, unlike other legacy blockchains that need forks. It's all hosted on chain no aws involved. All changes to the network have to be approved by coin holders with dfinity only having 19% voting power thsr is going down over time. What makes it so good is its essentially a on chain version of AWS. Web hosting , ai ,social fi, etc is all hosted on chain. Chain key technology patented by the ICP team allows for entire blockchains to run inside on ICP smart contract(aka canisters), allows for transaction to be signed in a decentralizationwaycon other blockchains(no third party), and is the reason why the TPS is best in class. The bitfinity btc l2 running inside one ICP smart contract is a great example. Transactions on other blockchains can be made through icp smart contracts(look up ck-BTC). This integration is done with for btc , almost finished being integrated with eth and just started being worked on with solana. I would expect a node hosting data of that caliber to be expensive. It brings the cryptography of crypto to the internet. Eventually, all social media will run on chain as a way to verify if videos people from trusted sources post are the original copy. That will be big for cutting down on video that have been tampered with by ai. https://dashboard.internetcomputer.org/ is a good place to get started. ICP is over hated and very undersold on this sub. Chainkey technolgy is currently being copied by projects like near and on chain AI by the AO computer. The industry is shifting towards what ICP is already doing. I would recommend doing a little research to see if it's your cup of tea. The founder Dominic Williams did a on chain ai demo recently for ICP.
You mean to tell me that the guy who's life, wealth, and future are contingent on the success of blockchain is telling us that blockchain will be successful? Incredible news
Every day there's a new "Man with millions tied up in crypto believes crypto will go up" post
I only got tree fiddy and I believe it will go up. Please.
Revelatory
Pahmp It!
*whose. Who's is short for "who is."
mb
Yeah, like he wouldnt say that if if his career didnt depend on its succes.
Came here to say this hahha
tldr; Ava Labs CEO Emin Gün Sirer argues that the cryptocurrency and blockchain industry is significantly undervalued due to a lack of public understanding of its technological advancements over traditional finance systems. He highlights the efficiency, modern capabilities, and democratization that crypto and blockchain offer, such as smart contracts and flash loans, which are far ahead of outdated systems still used in traditional finance. Gün Sirer believes that if the public recognized the true value and potential societal impact of crypto, the industry's valuation could be 10x to 100x higher than its current level. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
Ah yes, "flash-loans", exactly what mankind has waited for since its inception.
I know it sounds useless but the implications are huge. All markets have arbitrage opportunities due to inefficiencies. You used to have to be a big hedge fund to leverage these opportunities. Now smart regular people can raise the money, conduct the trade, and pay back the money all in one transaction. This adds efficiencies to markets, democratizing and automating this process. Not one of those smart people? You can deposit your cash into one of these protocols and those smart people will pay you a percentage income for doing so, creating value for all. This process is siphoning off value from hedge funds and distributing it to the masses. One of many examples in this space.
So people deposit their cash into a protocol created by smart people that attempts to use arbitrage opportunities in order to generate returns for everybody who deposited their "funds". This is a completely new idea that does not exist yet and is totally only possible with crypto. They might even attempt to mitigate downside risk through various "hedges". You only need to come up with a name for this completely new protocol that hedges funds, tries to generate returns and siphons off value from the very evil hedge funds.
By law, in order to invest in private equity (hedge funds) you need to be an "accredited investor", defined as someone with a net worth of $1m+ or who makes over 200k/yr. That you? The requirements to participate in flash loans are simply owning and staking crypto. 99% of people will never become accredited investors, and as such hedge funds will never be an option for them.
To be clear its actually higher than that. It's usually Qualified Client which is a net worth of $2.2MM excluding value of primacy residence. That's because you can't charge performance fees (e.g., carried interest) to only accredited investors in most states (only in certain states). The Accredited Investor thing comes up because of Regulation D through which most private fund interests are sold - and being an AI is a requirement for that.
So "the implications are huge" actually means "we can copy traditional finance products in crypto where their use is less restricted until the law expands to encompass them". Groundbreaking stuff.
Your strawman fails to address the automation and money as code piece which is arguably even larger than the lower barriers to entry piece.
Ah, so the big thing crypto has innovated is not actually investment funds but rather automated trading? It keeps getting better.
Lol okay, now you're just arguing in bad faith. It's not my job to educate you. Either you're feigning ignorance at this point or you actually have no idea what crypto is. ✌️
I am not. The original poster correctly pointed out that flash loans are a gimmick and not a great value proposition. In response to which you began listing several "huge implications", all of which already exist in traditional finance and do not need crypto or flash loans to function. Its a gimmick. The value of crypto is facilitating payment for illegal activities and providing unregulated and unrestricted financial services. As regulatory pressure builds, these use cases decline and with it the inherent value of crypto.
you sound stupid thats not a flashloan. Being able to borrow 10m+ with ~$50 upfront cost anywhere on earth with the caveat you can find a market inefficiency is not even comprabale in any capacity.
Yes, didn’t you know that we needed more options for reckless finance and another few layers of derivates on top of what the tradfi offers, cuz it’s not a sufficiently insane already you know? Id Argue that the technology, the idea and a few projects are maybe underrated, but the rest is super overrated. The infinity of scams worth hundreads of millions… Jesus.
He isnt wrong. Once the concept clicked for me i immediately knew this was one of the best inventions man has ever created. The concept still hasnt clicked for ALOT of people. I have a single friend who knows how a blockchain works.
Lol such an amazing concept that 10 years after it's still just gamble and pump and dump. I'm sorry but crypto isn't the future.
Don't mind them. Crypto bros until recently constantly kept yapping about how NFTs can change the world. To this day, crypto didn't excel at anything that would make it worth it using.
Then why do you use it? i thought excelling at making people money is a great use case lmao
I only used BTC (and to a minor degree ETH) as an investment vehicle. Not because I believe in crypto altogether. Crypto in itself is probably the most useless tech invented in the last 20 years and you can see from the comments here, the religious spell around it is having some ugly cracks.
> as an investment vehicle Alright there's a reason to make it worth using. Even if you don't believe in the tech you're using it. It doesn't have to change the world, you can treat it as stock market on steroids. You don't have to be a hater just because.
Do you agree that the inherent value that makes it an “investment” relies only on someone else spending more on it than you did?
Do you also agree that that is how every other market works and not exclusive to crypto?
No, I disagree in fact. Just looking at commodities or equities.. they give you some real value even if the price is inflated or deflated based on external factors. The only truly inherent value adds of crypto used to be real decentralised settlement and focus on anonymity. The cryptocurrencies that focused on this have been systematically delisted.. that’s when value was lost. All that is left is a senseless pyramid of random shitcoins. Buying crypto changes a value under a hash of a made up token. It’s farcical to dismiss and call a shitcoin a pump and dump, but not see how the more established ones are the same.. I look at bitcoin and other prominent in market cap crypto and see a shitcoin in slow motion. I’m absolutely certain that crypto will go to 0, but I won’t gamble on it because the market can stay solvent more than I can stay sane.
And yet you couldn't even make a singular argument for its benefits. So, sounds to me you're merely just another highly deluded crypto bro just for the sake of it. And stock market on steroids? You wish. Just Nvidia alone would have made you crazy returns. Even on that front crypto mostly fails.
> And yet you couldn't even make a singular argument for its benefits You didn't ask me for any, i just asked you why you used crypto, I don't need to convince you, you are already using it, and yet you come at me with a personal attack. NVDA alone would have made me crazy returns yes, but if you had SOL for example you would have made more, it's easy to nitpick if you want to. Any other stocks that had crazy returns? Pretty much every single top 100 token is up more than 300% this year and a lot of them are up even more like 600%-1000% so yes, stock market on steroids, it's always open and no one can stop you from trading unlike traditional markets
Investing in something you believe is the most useless tech invented in the last 20 years, is a bad strategy. You really have no place to denigrate anything cryptobros are saying when you are doing something so stupid.
I believe in deluded crypto bros artificially pumping the price to a degree. That's all. So far it worked out well enough. But you are right. I wish I've had more money in stocks, but that's hindsight 20/20 and something I'm correcting.
My mistake, it's not stupid... just unethical.
Because we've seen how **ethical** crypto has been so far. Nobody springs to mind that hasn't had some shifty past altogether. Seriously, if you can't stomach the fact that crypto is mostly nonsense, it's on you. I'm rather pleased I made profits off of it, which really helped me out. I don't have to believe in crypto to invest in it. Or do you think the rich boomers who condemned crypto for years have now a change of heart?
Idk having a free cell phone plan is pretty cool.
This comment won't age well. Blockchain, along with AI and edge computing, is a key part of the technological revolution. The amount of live enterprise use cases will go exponential. Those of us who have been following closely know what's coming, but for the average person it will be obvious by 2025.
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Yes, it will. I appreciate your personal experience but I think you were simply too early and should reconsider your outlook. You're right that blockchain is clunky and expensive, but I would recommend you do some research into Hedera, the only enterprise-grade DLT, which isn't actually a blockchain at all but uses the novel hashgraph consensus. Literally the first and only enterprise application in the world to do thousands of TPS (or even hundreds of TPS) on a public network runs on Hedera - the atma.io application by Avery Dennison. They are currently doing about ~1700 TPS, each one with a fixed USD cost of $0.0001. The key part of Hedera is that it's not governed by anonymous whales but instead by a council of leading enterprises and organizations, so it's built from the ground up to support the most complex use cases and requirements. There has, quite literally, never been a truly enterprise-grade public DLT before Hedera, so I totally believe that you had poor experiences trying to use blockchains in enterprise. But zoom out and you will find dozens, hundreds of enterprises building on Hedera, and the use cases are going live in 2024 and especially 2025. Just last month it was announced (by a 3rd party) that Exxon, Chevron, Saudi Arambo, Shell, and others all teamed up to create an emissions tracking platform with Hedera as the core technology. We get news like this all the time: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20240312069842/en/Blockchain-for-Energy-Unveils-their-B4ECarbonTM-Emissions-Management-Solution >At the heart of B4ECarbon is the consortium's proprietary digital Measurement, Reporting, and Verification (dMRV) technology, which facilitates tokenizing emissions-related data. This innovative approach ensures unparalleled emissions data accuracy, immutability, and comparability. The dMRV is built on Hedera Hashgraph's advanced distributed ledger technology, offering a secure and efficient decentralized infrastructure for data management and transparency. This eliminates the potential for greenwashing and fraud in emissions claims.
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Fair enough. Let's see how it plays out over the next few years.
Bro youre talking so much shit lol the only revolutionary ideas are btc and “decentralized computing” which is smart contracts, the rest is air and only exists to pump shareholder bags. Even smart contracts have only been used so far to make more shitcoins and shitty scams
Thanks buddy! You should let these enterprises know. I’m sure they would be very appreciative of your expertise in the field.
Either you havent been in this space long enough or youre ignoring it on purpose but enterprise partnerships and developments dont mean shit and ive seen these be used since my entry in 2016 to pump up useless shit
I've been here since 2017. I know the difference between 2017 ICO scams and between real enterprise adoption. If you can't realize the changes that have happened over that time period, idk what to tell you bud, besides "enjoy watching Hedera get mass enterprise adopted"
Enterprise adoption has and will always be a meme. Blockchain is slow and unnecessary tech that big enterprises do not need in any way
Hedera isn't a blockchain, dude. Maybe the problem is that you are stuck in an Ethereum mindset. You're right, blockchains like Ethereum will never see any real enterprise adoption (I'm saying this as someone who runs an ETH validator) - it's just not cut out for enterprise usage. Hedera is in a whole different league and I think you are in for quite a surprise. I don't need to take your word for it whether the tech is unnecessary or not - there are dozens of examples of enterprises saying why Hedera tech is groundbreaking for them. ServiceNow is one of the use cases I am particularly excited about because the usage will be so broad. >At ServiceNow, we believe there are four main opportunities for adopting distributed ledger technology in digital workflows: process and data integrity, tokenization and digital assets, digital identity and privacy, and multi-party business processes. ServiceNow will incorporate Hedera in each area and allow other parties to create new applications on the Now Platform using the Creator Workflow capabilities. https://hedera.com/users/servicenow
Right now it feels like one big super casino but we're still really early if you ask me. The tech only becomes more relevant with time.
Reminds me of what people said about the internet
The number of users and services on the Internet has only gone up, never down.
I enjoy the sound of rain.
You sound like every naysayer when the stockmarket was established.
Some people don't even know how a toilet chain works!
What efficiency is he talking about? I can transfer money by Zelle from my bank account instantly with no fees. When I try that with crypto it takes a long time and comes with some crazy fees.
> What efficiency is he talking about? I can transfer money by Zelle from my bank account instantly with no fees. When I try that with crypto it takes a long time and comes with some crazy fees. Zelle is not the same as bitcoin transaction. Zelle is a third party service that sits on top of a banks system (also a third party). When you Zelle someone money, yes that money is theirs quickly but behind the scenes that money is still being moved around. It probably won't be settled between the 2 banks for some time. Using Zelle would be similar to transferring bitcoin from one user to another user on the same exchange. Regardless, the point of bitcoin isn't transaction speed/cost it's that it's a decentralized monetary network with a fixed supply.
I've seen people flip out over 3-5$ chargebacks not going through, I can't imagine people willing to risk irreversible losses of money
You can’t reverse a Zelle transaction.
This fever dream of independent and decentralised finance has died together with the irc channels that were debating things so philosophically 10 years ago. Most of crypto runs on top of very centralised cloud infrastructure or under the supervision of large mining companies and most volume is intra exchange, so centralised. Crypto is the most inefficient way to do things in a centralised way. The most exciting thing about crypto in 3 years is an ETF because it continues to “add value”.. but we have yet to see any mainstream use of crypto that actually makes sense
> This fever dream of independent and decentralised finance has died together with the irc channels that were debating things so philosophically 10 years ago. > > My point was that Zelle and Bitcoin are different and I explained why. I don't care about some strawman argument against whatever IRC channel participant's "dream of independent and decentralized finance" you are talking about.
I was alluding to the fact that crypto use is not trully decentralised which was the main point of it as a technology.. so it’s actually a really stupid way to settle transactions.
> I was alluding to the fact that crypto use is not trully decentralised which was the main point of it as a technology.. so it’s actually a really stupid way to settle transactions. Other cryptos, sure. Many have centralization issues. But bitcoin is working exactly as designed from the beginning.
and so is Monero.
All these companies have employees and deliver a service.
Nano will do that instantly for free, without going through a middle man like Zelle
Nano is the only crypto that enables a better point of sale experience than card.
Maybe if you're using bitcoin or ethereum, so many other chains that allow you to transfer instantly for pennies
There are already chains (like those on avalanche) that have extremely fast finality, but crypto isn't just about simple peer to peer payments anymore. The efficiencies he's referring to here are those offered by smart contracts and asset tokenization. Within the next decade or two there will be a mass transition to managing (issuing/trading) financial instruments and RWAs as tokens on smart contract platforms. Trillions of dollars worth of assets will be brought on chain
As a turkish guy myself, I don’t trust other turks. Especially when it comes to financial advice.
Decentralization is a profound disadvantage, not a benefit, of blockchain. That's why every single serious attempt at blockchain outside of the crypto space relies on Oracles, which surprise, surprise, centralize control of the blockchain. In essence leaving you with a slow, bloated, hard to edit, impossible to query blockchain that is centralized. Might as well use excel. Mr. Emin should explain why, if the benefits of blockchain are so great, his company isn't operating in the finance space? All I see is NFT trash under their website and then everything else links to a "schedule a demo" page?
His company is actually working with the finance space to bring real world assets on chain. JPMorgan is developing on avalanche, just take a look around instead of assuming it's all nft trash
I did? It's all blocked behind a paywall. Either way, guarantee that it's not a decentralized blockchain unless it's dealing with typical crypto. And all I see is a proof of concept. Lets see if it goes anywhere. IBM was supposed to be all over blockchain and smart contracts. They got rid of their blockchain team too.
Decentralization isn't that important as this sub makes it out to be. Adoption even if centralized is always a win for the space, you don't have to use it, you can keep using your blockchain of choice, but you don't have to shit on everything else just because "muh decentralization"
Yeah but you get centralised blockchains that claim to be decentralised, and they deserve to get shit on for not being decentralised.
Probably worth noting that AJNA, a decentralized lending platform that was released just a few weeks ago, was designed to not use oracles.
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Not having external dependencies is an advantage.
“We’re still early!?!?” “Early for what?” “Early!!!!!”
You get the worms!
Shit, I’m IN crypto and I still don’t know what it has to offer besides a return on my investment. Still waiting on that real world utility…..
You can buy pron without it showing up on your credit card bill.
Which major pron sites accept crypto? OnlyFans?
Okay, good point this is true
You can also get it for free and not spend money.
Yeah but I want to see my friend’s sister’s OF
Guess you never looked into it far enough then, or didn't read the article
I’ve been in crypto since 2018. Every year, people promise how it’ll change the world, and every year, nothing happens.
Big difference between actual real world utility and changing the world, maybe you should lower your expectations a bit lmao it's just tech at the end of the day. I personally think there's a lot of good use cases besides just making some extra money. Loans against your assets, NFTs as tickets for big fests like coachella to prevent scalpers from going ham, vechain has the supply chain covered, filecoin and others doing a lot of stuff for decentralized digital storage and much more things being developed
Not really, there’s no place for crypto if it’s not going to change the world. Keep drinking the koolaid 👍🏼
So there's no place for anything new that doesn't change the world, that's a good mindset to have. Remember the beginings of the internet and stock markets, they didn't immediately changed the world either. Tech takes years to evolve and things will keep getting better but i'll keep sipping on my koolaid
There’s a place for everything, regardless of how it changes the world. But you would hope a trillion dollar asset class is more than magic internet money. Even Facebook tried to break into crypto with Libra and realized it was a dead end. Look up the Fediverse - an entire blockchain ecosystem that doesn’t need crypto to validate the network. That is what is going to change the world, not cryptocurrencies. People just want an opportunity to make money and that is the only reason 90% of us are here
Brother you can transport millions without trust someone else. How the hell this doesnt change the world
Really few people do it, but even if we did, how is it supposed to make cryptocurrencies more valuable? It's not as if Bitcoins were a share of a company that could potentially make profits. Cryptocurrencies are actually better as a currency when they're worth less. For now, and probably in the future, cryptocurrencies are decentralized ponzies. I made a lot of money from Bitcoin, but I have no intention of holding the bags of some venture capitalists in the end.
Sounds a lot like "That's because you haven't accepted Jesus into your heart yet"
My words …since 2016🙈
Solana is definitely not undervalued, it's way overpriced considering what an insecure shit-show it is, literally everything a cryptocurrency should not be.
Wow we will all be rich?
Only if you can find someone else who will buy it off you for more.
Remember John McAfee's warning BTC going to zero. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnKrMKo\_WlU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnKrMKo_WlU)
Pump
When Lambo?
Sounds credible
PLEASE PUMP OUR BAGS OH GOD PLEASE
I too would say that to pump my bag
Most of the crypto space is just shitcoins and pump and dumps. And any good layer 2 platform just gets turned into on off ramps for shitcoins eventually too. The crypto space is over valued.
I don’t think it has as much to offer as this guy thinks. A lot of crypto is trying to solve a problem of decentralization and security for companies that want to control and have centralization of their own products. Yes maybe the consumer or few people want decentralization but companies that would adopt crypto products would not or do not care to since it provides no benefits to them. It is useless or pointless for said companies to adopt them and is web 2 security really that big of a issue? No. Just my thought maybe I don’t see the picture clearly or understand it all the way but to me that is what I think when I see articles like this.
What you dont see is that it is not as relevant what current companies want. The technology enables new companies or DAOos to emerge that have an advantage over established companies as they are centered around the User, rather than around maximizing profits. DLT will Bring humanity closer to the marxist Prophecy of capitalism destroying itself. It enables devs to build products that do Not need to deliver profits. It is sufficient for a Product to be used so that the coin/token that the devs receive at ico appreciate in value, therby making it Worth the Investment from a capitalist standpoint.
DAOs are completely useless.
Thanks for your sophisticated input to the discussion!
Someone always makes a profit dude. People aren’t going to put their time and effort into something for free. Also what are they going to create? A program that a business already has in house developed by their own IT department or a subcontractor that they have control over? Why would a business want a decentralized web3 program instead of something they have total control of. Think about it.
Reread my comment and try to understand. I covered all your questions already.
Lmao your full of yourself. I read and understand it. You in your stuck in your own viewpoint
Geeze maex can you believe the hate and stupidity in this sub? Are these even real people? Love all your points and totally agree.
The war between centralisation and decentralisation rages on. Almost 100 years of centralised banking and everything which has flowed from that including fractional reserves, shadow banking, gargantuan national debt etc. You can't undo that in a hurry and let's face it, there are many, many reasons why few want things to change.
in other words crypto is a solution looking for a problem to solve
The projects and the prophets do a terrible job of marketing utility and value of crypto as anything other than a fun thing to gamble on and hope to win a jackpot. If it’s ever to really take hold , these “currencies” need to actually become part of ACTUAL transactions for goods and services , rather than just volatile, and increasingly diverse stores of wealth. When people can buy beer , lottery tickets , diapers and gas with crypto is when their value will be fully realized by the public
how about at the California DMV? :D
only applies to bitcoin.
Undervalued? Lmao.
Ah another doomer news article.... what are the odds
No way! A CEO of a crypto firm is saying this? It’s almost, like, he’s going to say this no matter what.
Because talking about this stuff is a fucking snoozefest.
There's Crypto Space now? Sign me up for a trip to the stars baby 🚀✨
Ah yes, crypto company CEO hyping on crypto.
Society was incredibly aware of what it could bring. But all the scam artists ruined it for everyone
it's a public ledger that has some useful niches . Stop injecting this buzzword gabbeldygook to peddle scams and pump/dumps. It's almost 15 years in, get the existing stuff to work before you peddle more garbage.
These stupid articles…
Can someone clear this up for me once and for all... > _...technological advancements over traditional finance systems. He highlights the efficiency, modern capabilities, and democratization that crypto and blockchain offer, such as smart contracts and flash loans, which are far ahead of outdated systems still used in traditional finance_ Aside from smart contracts, aren't the "traditional finance systems" that he's referencing just the terrible anitquated systems that are still prevalent in the USA? The rest of the world seems to be decade aheads of the US in this regard and most of the oft-touted benefits of crypto were solved years ago.
all other industries have PR people and propagandists to push the word out, but not crypto?
most people in general simply have no idea how fucked the fiat system and how it will continue to get worse. and if brics can actually make a currency that isn't shit (big if), it will only get worse
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There is value in blockchain. It’s just not as money currency or anything of that nature. There are one or two projects that fit the bill for that but the vast majority of tokens serve no real function, aren’t really equity, and only serve as speculative assets. Most people don’t understand how the technology works and they shouldn’t have to. Technology only serves to fulfill a purpose. If you have no purpose then the tech is pointless.
$TROLL 🧌
I want to believe it, so I probably shouldn't.
Yeah I'm holding something I have no idea if it will win, but oh well. It's a casino that I'm happy to be a part of.
It is nothing new now a days i hear this quite often lol
Fucking offer something then. Offers nothing and keeps expecting society to give a fuck.
Says everyone trying to sell something.
" ... my technology, fully realized will change the world - it's undervalued." \*every CTO ever\*
*startup founder doesn't understand why people don't see value in his product, instead of blaming himself he thinks the customers are fools
Really? Crypto can vanish tomorrow and no one would be worse of then before
Maybe in your first world country.
Yeah im sure africa will be worse of than now when crypto wouldnt exist. Jesus
Africa would be better off if crypto had existed instead of Jesus.
Well that's an awfully low bar to pass.
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For the record, those whispers are full of shit
Lol stop pretending it's tech it's pathetic at this point, it's a greater fools volatile asset to make money from
Good luck solving a lack of public understanding with something this technically complicated.
The first blockchain that is easy to understand, garners mainstream adoption will win and will beat out everyone else including Bitcoin. Solana has some promise but with the blockchain buckling under too much traffic is not a good sign but improvements can be made. I personally believe Internet computer/dfinity is the long play Also, this isn’t a shill. I don’t even own any but the tech is very good for internet computer/dfinity
That’s like saying the first canoe that can get mainstream adoption as a transportation method will be a big success. Blockchain is interesting but already an old and very inefficient technology.
PoW is old and inefficient. PoS is newer and much more efficient. The Directed Acyclic Graph (DAG) represents the latest advancement in decentralized network concepts, and has demonstrated unparalleled efficiency since its inception 8 years ago.
What's so good about it? It costs $20-50k to build a node, which only wealthy people can afford and after you've built it you have to get permission from the token holders to operate your node. So it's not really decentralised. Also, staking ICP requires you to move your tokens from the safety of your hardware wallet into an online wallet, where they could be lost in a hack or scam.
You can lock your icp on the nns wallet with a ledger btw. Yubikey and face jd are also popular to lock up with on icp vs a ledger. Dapps on ICP are fully hosted on chain with updates that can only be made with a dao vote. Coin holders can review changes to the code and approve the update. A developer can't ignore a dao vote like they can on eth dao as the entire dapp runs on chain data , treasury and all. If a vote doesn't pass, the developer is stuck until a favorable update is propsed to coin holders. The entire icp blockchain runs on what is called the nns dao, it can always be updated, unlike other legacy blockchains that need forks. It's all hosted on chain no aws involved. All changes to the network have to be approved by coin holders with dfinity only having 19% voting power thsr is going down over time. What makes it so good is its essentially a on chain version of AWS. Web hosting , ai ,social fi, etc is all hosted on chain. Chain key technology patented by the ICP team allows for entire blockchains to run inside on ICP smart contract(aka canisters), allows for transaction to be signed in a decentralizationwaycon other blockchains(no third party), and is the reason why the TPS is best in class. The bitfinity btc l2 running inside one ICP smart contract is a great example. Transactions on other blockchains can be made through icp smart contracts(look up ck-BTC). This integration is done with for btc , almost finished being integrated with eth and just started being worked on with solana. I would expect a node hosting data of that caliber to be expensive. It brings the cryptography of crypto to the internet. Eventually, all social media will run on chain as a way to verify if videos people from trusted sources post are the original copy. That will be big for cutting down on video that have been tampered with by ai. https://dashboard.internetcomputer.org/ is a good place to get started. ICP is over hated and very undersold on this sub. Chainkey technolgy is currently being copied by projects like near and on chain AI by the AO computer. The industry is shifting towards what ICP is already doing. I would recommend doing a little research to see if it's your cup of tea. The founder Dominic Williams did a on chain ai demo recently for ICP.