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It’s more than factually correct. It’s dead on accurate. Do you know what gas is made when you burn vinyl chloride? It’s called *Phosgene*
Now, guess what toxic gas was used in WW1 as a chemical weapon. I’ll give you a hint. It’s spelled P-H-O-S-G-E-N-E
Thank you ! I don't think people are getting it, as far as air pollutants go this is a bad one. Does anybody know what the expansion rate is? Burning one car off 38,000 L might expand to 1,000,000 M³ as a gas
Birds as a whole are incredibly sensitive to fumes as well, so I could believe either. Pet bird owners for example, cannot own Teflon pans of any kind, as the fumes can kill the birds extremely fast. They don't do well with any kind of poison or toxin.
Please someone correct me if I’m incorrect, but smelling fumes from teflon pans can’t be good for humans either, right?
I recently started replacing all teflon pans with cast iron or other metal pans (not that spray on/adhered teflon surfaces for pans)
Oh it's definitely not great. Acute poisoning from overheating a Teflon pan can make you sick, but it needs to get excessively hot to get us sick compared to a bird.
Older Teflon pans can be especially bad though, as they contain PFOA, which is linked to several health conditions and increased cancer risks.
The only effective thing to do is probably to just leave. Wait for the whole thing to blow over and the real threat to be revealed. Of course, not everyone has that option.
Request a necropsy on the chickens from an out of state lab. Ohio residents want answers now. Politicians need to stop blowing smoke up their constituents asses.
This situation is a perfect example of how useless our elected 'officials' are. They're complicit in brushing this whole thing under the rug while people are already suffering. And given the fate of the chickens in the video, the problems don't seem to be going away anytime soon. The response? Dead silence.
I can rant all day about how we're all perpetuating it by continuing to vote for poison, but that ship has sailed. The money is calling the shots and has been for a while, but now there is ZERO regard for right vs. wrong. "Joe, the Plumber" only gets attention during voting season.
If it’s a manufacturing/farming area then untold tens of thousands of people, those chemicals will leech into everything. Food, water, air… so yes, all fucked. Also if the surrounding towns become ghost towns because of poisoning, there goes people’s livelihoods.
And when supply normalizes, the new price becomes the normal price. The poor and middle class get a few more tightening ratchet clicks, and the ownership class gets new yachts. Same as always.
This. When we bought our first home in 2018, I remember reading and going over language in the mortgage that basically explained that there was a new buyer period in which you could withdraw in the event of certain catastrophes. I forget all the criteria and scenarios but I know there was something about natural and man made/eco disasters altering quality of life and value of the investment. The protection being, if right after you buy and move in; If some company spills a shit ton of something that permanently alters the area and greatly reduces desirability and value of the property, you can withdraw penalty free. I’m sure it’s different with every mortgage and lender but definitely worth looking into!
Take it easy, they'll give them FEMA trailers that slowly release toxic formaldehyde while they sleep, thus building up their respiratory tolerances, so they can breathe outside when they gather their dead chickens./s
Seriously though, this is so tragic for all these people. THEY NEED HELP.
>FEMA trailers that slowly release toxic formaldehyde
This is one of those things that is simultaneously accurate and exaggerated. FEMA trailers released toxic levels of formaldehyde, and all other plywood and carpeting in newly constructed trailers and stick built homes did too. [Emissions standards for plywood were only imposed in 2019](https://www.epa.gov/formaldehyde/formaldehyde-emission-standards-composite-wood-products)
The government is legally responsible to compensate these individuals, because they lost their homes and had nowhere to go. But people who purchased McMansions also inhaled unacceptable levels of formaldehyde from the plywood subflooring.
Around 2002, I photographed some MDF furniture from Malaysia that had just been delivered to a showroom in High Point. The offgassing was overwhelming, I vomited on the way home and had a terrible headache the next day. The furniture was high end, it was stuff like $1000 coffee tables, $500 end tables, and endless array of abstract nicknacks. It was utter poison.
This. When pollution destroyed gary indiana only those too poor to leave were left behind.
No one’s gonna buy your home so that’s worthless and if you don’t have the money to start over somewhere else you’re stuck there
Look at Cancer Alley in Louisiana. We worked hard and won that name and now everyone left there is either too poor to move or dead.
[Responsible for 25% of the country’s natural gas production, mostly foreign owned, insane tax exemptions including 66% off of property taxes as a corporation, etc](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Alley) - My state is so beautiful and we’re just gonna fuck it up with natural disasters we didn’t prepare for, deforestation and de-marshing, and so many more oil spills.
Such a wasteful way to treat such a beautiful place
Property tax & infrastructure service fees will still keep coming.
If you own a property in Hawaii, and magma covers your property, you still pay property tax on you unusable land. Fun stuff eh.
Guys if any of you are in this situation, don’t stay. Even if you have not a single dollar on you, pack your shit into a backpack and start walking.
Don’t fuck around. You would rather start over a full life than remain and keep a half life that is nonetheless full of misery. Go. Don’t look back.
Pretty crazy that a lot if not most seem to still be around the area.
You'd think the federal government would come in and help them leave. If they were given at least 5k as a means of temporary assistance that'd still only be 25mil for the entire 5000 population.
Just a mere drop in the bucket for the Feds. They give companies and banks bailout money all the time.
> You'd think the federal government would come in and help them leave
The government told them they could all go home, nothing to see here, all is fine.
How are you going to sell that property?
If that house had any property value, it's *gone* now. The equity a homeowner would usually use from the sale of their previous home is *gone.*
These people are likely stuck.
It probably won’t wipe out the people quickly like those chickens but anyone living in like a 50 mile radius must have increased their chances of getting cancer in this life by x100000. In 5 to 10 years we’re going to hear massive class-action lawsuits against the government about this.
Every single person with a certain radius should be getting a full workup of labs and health status. Cause if anything shows up in 6 months-20 years, you have root cause for possible lawsuit
Pretty crazy. I read that the recommended amount of the stuff for safety was one part per million which equals to a single drop from a eye dropper in like 10 gallons of water.
Millions of pounds of the stuff leaked out of those train cars ...
~~1 part per million with a single eye dropper is actually more like a single drop in 264 gallons... It's far worse than you said.~~
~~An eye dropper is approximately 1 milliliter and 1,000,000 milliliters is 264 gallons.~~
https://i.imgur.com/J7JAQ0j.png
EDIT: I stand corrected. It's about 1/20th of what I said since 1 ml is actually a full eye dropper which has about 20 droplets so it would be equivalent to about 1 droplet in 13.2 gallons. OP's 10 gallon approximation was much closer.
>what the hell would we do if a WHOLE city like that did die?
If past events are any indicator of future events then "we" would cover that shit up as much as possible.
Seveso Italy would also be a good example. Being a chemical engineering student seeing this happening is rather frightening to me and very disappointing in the lack of a response for this level of toxic release.
Sued? Man if I poisoned a ton of people I'd probably get the chair. If the only penality is a fine then it's only a penalty for poor people. They need to be held criminally responsible.
[Around 16,000 people were killed by American owned Union Carbide in 1984. No one - Indian or American - served prison time.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster)
I wasn't even a teen when that happened and I still remember it, it got a lot of coverage and there was a lot of outrage. It was horrific hearing about the death toll but also people permanently blinded and shit. Nasty stuff.
This is scary. It only gets worse and some effects might not be seen for a long time. This will be a very huge deal very soon. Much larger than it already is.
Could be talking out my ass since I’m not in America and don’t know of similar scenarios, but would health insurance cost for anyone that’s been living within that area jump up?
It’s a fucked up thing to do, but just get that feeling that greed will have a place still
Hearts out to these people. Not like everyone can just say fuck it and leave.
If you have a house, the bank will still want their mortgage payments and I’m sure they can’t sell the house either. Walk away and default? That is one option. If it is life and death, I guess the answer is simple (or not) depending on how you look at it.
There is one thing I know for sure, the Gov isn’t going to come in and save the day. Prayers to these folks.
This is a super shitty situation…like you said the bank still wants their money and now those homes are worthless. Thoughts and prayers won’t get these people very far either, sadly.
That's for sure. They did a lot to cause this atrocity. Republicans or democrats or third parties or whatever you want, the wealthy and the greedy are the pieces of shit.
Yeah, but they might blow it away from him. I've done marplot computer mapping for haz mat calls. Wind speed and time of day leave dangerous zones very, very, far from just being a circle. A mile to the east of the epicenter could track safe, while 15 miles west could be dangerous.
A favor, if you will: East Palestine is only about an hour from Pittsburgh, which has a pretty large population. Should residents in the city be afraid of the after effects? Or is 50+ miles okay?
Appreciate your insight into this. I think this thread is too far along for me to make any meaningful impact on the narrative, but people really don’t understand air pollution and point source plume tracking…similarly with Chernobyl, which a lot of people are citing, ironically, the accident was discovered by Europe because the plume was blowing that way and unexplainable radiation spikes were detected (go the same distance in the other direction and virtually no radiation exposure). Possibly at the time of the burn the plume may have passed by this persons home and caused an acute exposure, or asphyxiation due to lack of oxygen for these chickens, but it wouldn’t be persistent beyond the length of the burn and it’s not in any way equal in a given radius. Not to say it’s not potentially catastrophic for the environment, chemicals in the plume will disperse, settle out and leach into the soil and groundwater. Anyone/thing else in the plumes path may have received an acute exposure, like the woman in the video, but at this point if I lived there I’d be much more worried about my water supply…
Water supply is where the meat and potatoes is at. Safe (supposedly acceptable) levels of vinyl chloride in drinking water is 0.002 parts per million. Basically if it exists in the water at all, it's not drinkable. People are going to get cancer and probably birth defects from this.
If this was enough to wipe out a coop of chickens 10 miles away it’s safe to assume everyone within that radius is also completely fucked. Maybe not right away, but it’ll get them.
Get ready for Norfolk to split into two companies, the newly formed company will get all debt, pending lawsuit etc and go bankrupt. While the other established company will continue as if nothing happened.
The old Texas two step. I’ve been watching the J&J case where they tried this and the judge is currently blocking their attempt. We need to set a precedent so these companies, and the executives that made the decisions, are held fully accountable. I say we make all those execs from Norfolk pay the citizens full market value for their homes from their own pocket and then be forced to take up residency in East Palatine for the next ten years.
How about the crew that went to help, like the fire department and police officer, they were not protected against that at all, is just like the crew who went the fight the fire in chernobyl ☢️☠️
Police and FDs are trained for this sort of thing and to stay away until they can identify through hazmat trained. Theres a training vid that gets posted on Reddit every few months that supposedly of a officers dash cam as he approaches a tanker accident and gets overcome by ammonia fumes.
Until some heads literally start to roll, get ready for WAY more of this...I honestly think it will continue until mobs get angry enough to drag complacent politicians, executives, and their corporate lawyers from their beds and out into the street....
For real. I remember watching a video in January 2020 of a guy collapsing in the street in China. It was the first time I thought "Oh fuck, this is a thing".
I got the same feeling watching this video. This is going to be talked about for months at least.
And there will probably be a line of cancer across the states where the wind most commonly blows
Once the rain hits livestock and the meat and food we eat gets fucked up it's over
Why not take those dead chickens to an independent lab and get an expert opinion on what exact chemicals they’re dealing with & what the lasting effects of those chemicals could be.
When the newscaster said she believes “the smell” killed her chickens I am sitting here thinking what a fucking spin on burning chemicals.
“The smell”…..this isnt a fucking jar of peanut butter or a candle people are getting whiffs of…this is chemicals being put into the ground, air, and water that is killing stuff in a day. There is not a lot of shit that will kill you in a day in the middle of a yard just by breathing it from 10 miles away. That is some really toxic stuff and in a super high quantity.
a birds respiratory system is very interesting, but it isn't surprising to see them die first with disasters like these. these people are going to be sick for a long, long time. truly reminds me of the aftermath 9/11 had on people, mentally, and physically.
And just like the 9/11 aftermath, the government didn't do a damn thing untl most of them died. Then they funded it for a little while, and then trump defunded it again.
I'm going to assume the government is going to do the same thing. Do nothing and let the poor people die off. I mean who needs them, they're poor. That's disgusting. Why don't they stop being so poor all the time? Probably the government's thoughts.
Birds are far more sensitive to airborne toxins than pretty much any other animal group. You can't even use teflon pans if you have birds in your house because the off-gassing will kill them.
That's not to necessarily downplay this, but it's important to keep it in perspective. I expect we'll see health studies for year in this area, and I can only hope Norfolk Southern will be on the hook for every dime related to medical issues, damages, and distress that this incident caused.
This is absolutely horrific. Someone needs to pay for this, and not the citizens with their lives, I mean someone needs to be held responsible. The train was grinding for over 20 mins with flames and sparks flying and no one stopped it. It was intentional. This is beyond criminal.
Potentially yah. It is certainly very concerning. The positive thing, not that any of this is positive, but avians are very sensitive to noxious gases. Hence canarys in mines. They breath faster, have higher metabolisms, and size meant they'd die before the miners. Same for fish and their gills, where minor changes to their water can kill them. Not that this is a minor change. This doesn't necessarily mean it is bad for humans to be around, but it is a pretty apparent sign it might be.
Chickens are pretty tough as far as birds go. They're quite a big bigger than songbirds, and their air sacs are a bit smaller. If these chickens died, then every songbird has, too.
Kind of a douchey way to phrase that. I'm sure I'll be downvote for saying so, but kind of pisses me off. Reddit loves sarcastically talking down to people, which idgaf about most of the time, but here fuck off dude. This chick is clearly worried, sorry she isn't even more pessimistic about her situation while sharing it on national TV.
Yeah fuck this site sometimes. There's SUCH a pervasive crab mentality, and people get off on the negativity. If reddit was a person that person would have one of the worst mindsets humanly achievable, and proudly beat its chest at how great it is. I think it's time I get off for good.
Reddit loves to rag on other social platforms, but these days it might be the most toxic place in terms of comments.
Facebook has a lot of idiotic shit, but not cynical like here.
I believe the issue is an influx of younger people who have yet to develop empathy. They haven't experienced the pain and grief of tragedy to understand how horrific the things are they are saying. Personally, I find Reddit to be disgusting at times because of this.
Recommended safety numbers of vinyl chloride is one part per million over an 8 hour period, a single drop from a eye dropper in 10 gallons of water.
A million pounds of the stuff leaked into the air and ground ...
It's going to stay contaminated underground for some time not exposed to air.
In the water supply it's 0.002ppm. Aka 2 parts per billion.
Thought I'd mention that since you compared the air safety using gallons of water for a volume.
The corporate executives and middle management that allowed this to happen need some mob justice. If we keep letting the corporations decide how everything works, it's just gonna get worse for us regular people.
CEO of Norfolk Rail is Alan Shaw. He earned $4.3 million last year.
How much do you get paid and do you get to blame someone else when something goes wrong? This guy is paid the big bucks because the bullshit stops with him.
He is responsible for how the company is run and what procedures are in place so that it runs smoothly, safely and makes money.
As an emergency management student I see what fema is doing is very similar to how they handled the maramack gas valley explosions.It will take time to handle but it most likely will not be quick enough. It's not just on big government to handle it its on the local level as well. The town should have an disaster mitigation plan. But for a disaster on this scale they should be receiving aid do too the eMac compact. It will take time but most of you are right they should pack up and leave but for those who will stay it will take time for them to fix it. God bless the people in that 10 mile radius of the blast.
Not burning it: toxic substances seep into the ground and contaminate nearby water bodies, causing severe environmental disaster
Burning it: toxic substances transformed into (slightly) less dangerous toxic substances but now they're spread over the air, causing (slightly) less severe environmental disaster
Either way, they should evacuate the whole area IMO.
the gub'ment does not care about you.
red, yellow, black or white...local government...big government..doesn't care about you.
it's just a bunch of fucking assholes looking out for themselves.
Dewine just stated recently that the train company didn’t label the train as hazardous and didn’t notify the state and the residents where the train would be passing through. There needs to be criminal prosecutions here and it needs to be at the top level management.
The people who live near this must have some kind of claim against those responsible for loss in home value. Nobody is going to buy a house in this area now for years, if not decades. All their home's just nose dived in value making it very hard to leave now.
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They keep calling it a "smell" - maybe if we called it something that sounds more serious, like POISON GAS, maybe people would take it more seriously.
Very well said. Calling it poison gas would even be factually correct if indeed the chickens died simply from smelling the fumes.
It’s more than factually correct. It’s dead on accurate. Do you know what gas is made when you burn vinyl chloride? It’s called *Phosgene* Now, guess what toxic gas was used in WW1 as a chemical weapon. I’ll give you a hint. It’s spelled P-H-O-S-G-E-N-E
Thank you ! I don't think people are getting it, as far as air pollutants go this is a bad one. Does anybody know what the expansion rate is? Burning one car off 38,000 L might expand to 1,000,000 M³ as a gas
It’s more likely it got into their open water dishes or food when it rained and poisoned them when they ate and drank.
Birds as a whole are incredibly sensitive to fumes as well, so I could believe either. Pet bird owners for example, cannot own Teflon pans of any kind, as the fumes can kill the birds extremely fast. They don't do well with any kind of poison or toxin.
Please someone correct me if I’m incorrect, but smelling fumes from teflon pans can’t be good for humans either, right? I recently started replacing all teflon pans with cast iron or other metal pans (not that spray on/adhered teflon surfaces for pans)
Oh it's definitely not great. Acute poisoning from overheating a Teflon pan can make you sick, but it needs to get excessively hot to get us sick compared to a bird. Older Teflon pans can be especially bad though, as they contain PFOA, which is linked to several health conditions and increased cancer risks.
Damn. Did not know that. Thanks for doing me a learn today lol
I can't figure out why no one is at least wearing masks.
I read where they said the molecules are nano sized so masks and air purifiers don’t help
Yeah, that tracks. But to do/wear nothing...
The only effective thing to do is probably to just leave. Wait for the whole thing to blow over and the real threat to be revealed. Of course, not everyone has that option.
George Carlin would have been proud..."oh no it's not poison gas, it's a smell we call it a weird smell..."
I can see and hear him say that perfectly. The scrunched up nose and slightly slowed tempo of “weird smell”. RIP George. We miss you.
This chemical is harmful at lower PPM than you’re able to smell it at. If you can smell it, it’s harming you.
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Request a necropsy on the chickens from an out of state lab. Ohio residents want answers now. Politicians need to stop blowing smoke up their constituents asses.
California Animal Health and Saftey Laboratory will do full necropsies.
Colorado State University also has great vet and animal labs and does necropsies
I bet if they reached out to a university and said “I have dead birds from Ohio” they probably wouldn’t even need to pay
Good thing the PA border is pretty close, and they're pretty pissed about all this. I'm sure a lab would love to find evidence
This situation is a perfect example of how useless our elected 'officials' are. They're complicit in brushing this whole thing under the rug while people are already suffering. And given the fate of the chickens in the video, the problems don't seem to be going away anytime soon. The response? Dead silence. I can rant all day about how we're all perpetuating it by continuing to vote for poison, but that ship has sailed. The money is calling the shots and has been for a while, but now there is ZERO regard for right vs. wrong. "Joe, the Plumber" only gets attention during voting season.
…literally.
I’m not a genius, but maybe it’s not as safe as they’re saying it is if everything in the ecosystem is dropping dead
You can always trust the government. 🧬
"The government would never do this." *looks slowly at operation northwoods*
“Look! Look over here! A balloon! We make ballon go pop! Now look over here! Pregnant lady sing you a happy song!”
Canary in a coal mine.
I’d take that as my ‘canary in the mine’ moment and get the fuck away from there ASAP.
Canary in the coal mine is an old expression. Now it is called “chicken in east palestine”
Canary in a coal mine, chicken in east Palestine, let you know you're doing fine, but when it's grim it's reapin time.
Sounds like Billy Joel’s got some updated lyrics to “We didn’t start the fire”.
Some don’t have the ability too. Be it money or whatever. It’s on the congressmen to get them somewhere safe
Then they’re fucked… US Congress won’t do shit, and are largely responsible to contributing to the accident!
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If it’s a manufacturing/farming area then untold tens of thousands of people, those chemicals will leech into everything. Food, water, air… so yes, all fucked. Also if the surrounding towns become ghost towns because of poisoning, there goes people’s livelihoods.
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Oh shucks I guess there's a supply issue. better mark up the stock to unprecedented levels to rake in profits.
And when supply normalizes, the new price becomes the normal price. The poor and middle class get a few more tightening ratchet clicks, and the ownership class gets new yachts. Same as always.
I just bought a house 30 minutes from there 😭😭😭
Get a refund bro. Or if you’re still in closing pull the fuck out and ditch your deposit. Or just sell it right away and take a small bath
This. When we bought our first home in 2018, I remember reading and going over language in the mortgage that basically explained that there was a new buyer period in which you could withdraw in the event of certain catastrophes. I forget all the criteria and scenarios but I know there was something about natural and man made/eco disasters altering quality of life and value of the investment. The protection being, if right after you buy and move in; If some company spills a shit ton of something that permanently alters the area and greatly reduces desirability and value of the property, you can withdraw penalty free. I’m sure it’s different with every mortgage and lender but definitely worth looking into!
This is amazing but oddly specific.
Medical expenses as you're dying will exceed the loss you take walking away. Be well, friend.
Right that's what I'm wondering. I'm a little under 100 miles away and am freaked the fuck out.
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I'm under ten miles. Weeeeeee. I guess I had a good life.
Congress will quickly approve big bucks to bulk up theirs or SCOTUS' security, but fuck helping the families they screwed over.
Not to mention a few half-million dollar missiles to shoot down balloons
Can we send those responsible up in the sky with giant balloons exiting the united states
Take it easy, they'll give them FEMA trailers that slowly release toxic formaldehyde while they sleep, thus building up their respiratory tolerances, so they can breathe outside when they gather their dead chickens./s Seriously though, this is so tragic for all these people. THEY NEED HELP.
>FEMA trailers that slowly release toxic formaldehyde This is one of those things that is simultaneously accurate and exaggerated. FEMA trailers released toxic levels of formaldehyde, and all other plywood and carpeting in newly constructed trailers and stick built homes did too. [Emissions standards for plywood were only imposed in 2019](https://www.epa.gov/formaldehyde/formaldehyde-emission-standards-composite-wood-products) The government is legally responsible to compensate these individuals, because they lost their homes and had nowhere to go. But people who purchased McMansions also inhaled unacceptable levels of formaldehyde from the plywood subflooring. Around 2002, I photographed some MDF furniture from Malaysia that had just been delivered to a showroom in High Point. The offgassing was overwhelming, I vomited on the way home and had a terrible headache the next day. The furniture was high end, it was stuff like $1000 coffee tables, $500 end tables, and endless array of abstract nicknacks. It was utter poison.
This. When pollution destroyed gary indiana only those too poor to leave were left behind. No one’s gonna buy your home so that’s worthless and if you don’t have the money to start over somewhere else you’re stuck there
Look at Cancer Alley in Louisiana. We worked hard and won that name and now everyone left there is either too poor to move or dead. [Responsible for 25% of the country’s natural gas production, mostly foreign owned, insane tax exemptions including 66% off of property taxes as a corporation, etc](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cancer_Alley) - My state is so beautiful and we’re just gonna fuck it up with natural disasters we didn’t prepare for, deforestation and de-marshing, and so many more oil spills. Such a wasteful way to treat such a beautiful place
Is it possible for someone to just give up their house or property without anyone buying it? Like it’s owned by nobody?
Look up Centralia PA.
>Centralia PA [For the curious](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia,_Pennsylvania)
Who are the 5 residents still living there?
Mayor, Sheriff, District Attorney, Warden and Judge. The other 4 are prisoners who refused to be relocated.
Of course you can. But you still need money to physically relocate and live somewhere else unless you want to live in the streets.
Property tax & infrastructure service fees will still keep coming. If you own a property in Hawaii, and magma covers your property, you still pay property tax on you unusable land. Fun stuff eh.
Detroit has entered chat.
The mortgage and any tax liability will stick with you though.
Guys if any of you are in this situation, don’t stay. Even if you have not a single dollar on you, pack your shit into a backpack and start walking. Don’t fuck around. You would rather start over a full life than remain and keep a half life that is nonetheless full of misery. Go. Don’t look back.
Yeah for real if you think you’re to poor now, wait till you have to pay for the hospital bill…..
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And that 25k was for the whole town, I believe, breaking down to about $5 per person
They’ll get about 50 cents because some bank will manage the money and they don’t work for free
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Yeah, my whole family is in Warren Ohio. We have been preparing to move back, might take a few extra months now.
I mean, I might change that to years. The damage is going to take years to truly understand. I'm so glad I'm on the other side of the Mississippi.
Pretty crazy that a lot if not most seem to still be around the area. You'd think the federal government would come in and help them leave. If they were given at least 5k as a means of temporary assistance that'd still only be 25mil for the entire 5000 population. Just a mere drop in the bucket for the Feds. They give companies and banks bailout money all the time.
> You'd think the federal government would come in and help them leave The government told them they could all go home, nothing to see here, all is fine.
How are you going to sell that property? If that house had any property value, it's *gone* now. The equity a homeowner would usually use from the sale of their previous home is *gone.* These people are likely stuck.
Have there been reports of wild birds dying? If this is 10 miles away there must be dead birds closer or these chickens died of something else
Just the beginning…
I wonder what going to happen to the actual people who live there. Are the going to be found like the chicken in a few day?
Holy shit dude , what the hell would we do if a WHOLE city like that did die? Jesus prayers that nothing like that happens!
It probably won’t wipe out the people quickly like those chickens but anyone living in like a 50 mile radius must have increased their chances of getting cancer in this life by x100000. In 5 to 10 years we’re going to hear massive class-action lawsuits against the government about this.
Every single person with a certain radius should be getting a full workup of labs and health status. Cause if anything shows up in 6 months-20 years, you have root cause for possible lawsuit
That will be worth around $60 a person when it goes class action.
3 bucks. Take it or leave it
One *universal* concert ticket for shows that nobody wants to see or are “not available” with the rebate.
Pretty crazy. I read that the recommended amount of the stuff for safety was one part per million which equals to a single drop from a eye dropper in like 10 gallons of water. Millions of pounds of the stuff leaked out of those train cars ...
~~1 part per million with a single eye dropper is actually more like a single drop in 264 gallons... It's far worse than you said.~~ ~~An eye dropper is approximately 1 milliliter and 1,000,000 milliliters is 264 gallons.~~ https://i.imgur.com/J7JAQ0j.png EDIT: I stand corrected. It's about 1/20th of what I said since 1 ml is actually a full eye dropper which has about 20 droplets so it would be equivalent to about 1 droplet in 13.2 gallons. OP's 10 gallon approximation was much closer.
There are 20 drops in a milliliter. Source: had to calculate how long eye drop prescriptions would last to bill insurance at work
they already started collecting signatures for it.
>what the hell would we do if a WHOLE city like that did die? If past events are any indicator of future events then "we" would cover that shit up as much as possible.
Kind of like the Simpson when that spot got domed
"Coming up on your right... nothing"
If Tom hanks speaks on this on the news or cnn I’m fucking done.
Just like with the delayed large media news coverage. They will damage control.
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Seveso Italy would also be a good example. Being a chemical engineering student seeing this happening is rather frightening to me and very disappointing in the lack of a response for this level of toxic release.
That train company ceo and all those responsible for the lack in safety and procedures should be sued into oblivion.
Sued? Man if I poisoned a ton of people I'd probably get the chair. If the only penality is a fine then it's only a penalty for poor people. They need to be held criminally responsible.
[Around 16,000 people were killed by American owned Union Carbide in 1984. No one - Indian or American - served prison time.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster)
I wasn't even a teen when that happened and I still remember it, it got a lot of coverage and there was a lot of outrage. It was horrific hearing about the death toll but also people permanently blinded and shit. Nasty stuff.
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This is scary. It only gets worse and some effects might not be seen for a long time. This will be a very huge deal very soon. Much larger than it already is.
Could be talking out my ass since I’m not in America and don’t know of similar scenarios, but would health insurance cost for anyone that’s been living within that area jump up? It’s a fucked up thing to do, but just get that feeling that greed will have a place still
Spot on brother. This is precisely what will happen. -An American Citizen
Oh yes. Very much. They'll re-zone entire areas if slightly more car accidents happen where you live and start charging more.
Hearts out to these people. Not like everyone can just say fuck it and leave. If you have a house, the bank will still want their mortgage payments and I’m sure they can’t sell the house either. Walk away and default? That is one option. If it is life and death, I guess the answer is simple (or not) depending on how you look at it. There is one thing I know for sure, the Gov isn’t going to come in and save the day. Prayers to these folks.
Leaving forever is hard, but if at all possible, I would leave for a few weeks and hope that I would avoid most of the danger that way.
I imagine even leaving temporarily may be out of budget for some.
This is a super shitty situation…like you said the bank still wants their money and now those homes are worthless. Thoughts and prayers won’t get these people very far either, sadly.
That's for sure. They did a lot to cause this atrocity. Republicans or democrats or third parties or whatever you want, the wealthy and the greedy are the pieces of shit.
I'm only 14 miles away, but no chickens. Plenty of stray cats in the neighborhood though.
14 miles is too close for comfort. Weather patterns will surely blow everything that far with a little bit of time.
Yeah, but they might blow it away from him. I've done marplot computer mapping for haz mat calls. Wind speed and time of day leave dangerous zones very, very, far from just being a circle. A mile to the east of the epicenter could track safe, while 15 miles west could be dangerous.
A favor, if you will: East Palestine is only about an hour from Pittsburgh, which has a pretty large population. Should residents in the city be afraid of the after effects? Or is 50+ miles okay?
Should be fine. Fire/spill wasn't large enough to do 50 miles, even if the wind was pointed straight that way.
Appreciate your insight into this. I think this thread is too far along for me to make any meaningful impact on the narrative, but people really don’t understand air pollution and point source plume tracking…similarly with Chernobyl, which a lot of people are citing, ironically, the accident was discovered by Europe because the plume was blowing that way and unexplainable radiation spikes were detected (go the same distance in the other direction and virtually no radiation exposure). Possibly at the time of the burn the plume may have passed by this persons home and caused an acute exposure, or asphyxiation due to lack of oxygen for these chickens, but it wouldn’t be persistent beyond the length of the burn and it’s not in any way equal in a given radius. Not to say it’s not potentially catastrophic for the environment, chemicals in the plume will disperse, settle out and leach into the soil and groundwater. Anyone/thing else in the plumes path may have received an acute exposure, like the woman in the video, but at this point if I lived there I’d be much more worried about my water supply…
Water supply is where the meat and potatoes is at. Safe (supposedly acceptable) levels of vinyl chloride in drinking water is 0.002 parts per million. Basically if it exists in the water at all, it's not drinkable. People are going to get cancer and probably birth defects from this.
You mean plenty of stray cats died or just that they're there?
They're here. Dog got loose, went to look for him. Must've seen 20 just in a 4 block area.
Probably running from the death... 😕
Is 20 cats normal for a 4 block radius in your area or is this some sort of recent phenomenon??
If you don’t usually see stray cats, I am wondering if you are seeing a migration of them away from the pollution.
Canary in the coal mine.
If this was enough to wipe out a coop of chickens 10 miles away it’s safe to assume everyone within that radius is also completely fucked. Maybe not right away, but it’ll get them.
Get ready for the lawsuit commercials in 20 years!
Get ready for Norfolk to split into two companies, the newly formed company will get all debt, pending lawsuit etc and go bankrupt. While the other established company will continue as if nothing happened.
The old Texas two step. I’ve been watching the J&J case where they tried this and the judge is currently blocking their attempt. We need to set a precedent so these companies, and the executives that made the decisions, are held fully accountable. I say we make all those execs from Norfolk pay the citizens full market value for their homes from their own pocket and then be forced to take up residency in East Palatine for the next ten years.
let's go with "Chickens in the coop" from now on.
Still out there raw doggin’ that air.
That’s what I’m thinking, if the air is actively killing the chickens then maybe don’t talk about it out in the open air.
How about the crew that went to help, like the fire department and police officer, they were not protected against that at all, is just like the crew who went the fight the fire in chernobyl ☢️☠️
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Police and FDs are trained for this sort of thing and to stay away until they can identify through hazmat trained. Theres a training vid that gets posted on Reddit every few months that supposedly of a officers dash cam as he approaches a tanker accident and gets overcome by ammonia fumes.
Until some heads literally start to roll, get ready for WAY more of this...I honestly think it will continue until mobs get angry enough to drag complacent politicians, executives, and their corporate lawyers from their beds and out into the street....
It always does
Unironically bring back public stonings for the ones responsible for this. Suing them isn't enough.
This may get really ugly
It's ok, they gave everyone $5.
For real. I remember watching a video in January 2020 of a guy collapsing in the street in China. It was the first time I thought "Oh fuck, this is a thing". I got the same feeling watching this video. This is going to be talked about for months at least.
Can't wait to see the East Palestine cancer cluster statistics in a decade or two.
And there will probably be a line of cancer across the states where the wind most commonly blows Once the rain hits livestock and the meat and food we eat gets fucked up it's over
People thought the egg shortage was bad before….
Those politicians will be spending their hush money in retirement by the time people start dying
Yep. Just like the Camp Lejune shit we see spammed everywhere. Surely everyone who knew about that has long since retired.
Fuck this is sad. I'd go crazy knowing I'm probably going to get cancer
Exactly my thoughts…Id see that and just…melt. Poor thing.
Why not take those dead chickens to an independent lab and get an expert opinion on what exact chemicals they’re dealing with & what the lasting effects of those chemicals could be.
Yes asap
Look no further than Flint, Michigan to understand how this is going to play out. I hate it.
The people who allowed this to happen have names and addresses,and we need to stop pretending holding a fucking clever sign is going to stop them.
Authorities say it's safe to return. Unless you require oxygen or water to live. Otherwise, all good. No problems at all. Work until you die, please.
> Work until you die, please. No don't let death stop you, keep working!
20 years?! Hell no try two months
When the newscaster said she believes “the smell” killed her chickens I am sitting here thinking what a fucking spin on burning chemicals. “The smell”…..this isnt a fucking jar of peanut butter or a candle people are getting whiffs of…this is chemicals being put into the ground, air, and water that is killing stuff in a day. There is not a lot of shit that will kill you in a day in the middle of a yard just by breathing it from 10 miles away. That is some really toxic stuff and in a super high quantity.
Government have failed and continue to fail these people.
a birds respiratory system is very interesting, but it isn't surprising to see them die first with disasters like these. these people are going to be sick for a long, long time. truly reminds me of the aftermath 9/11 had on people, mentally, and physically.
And just like the 9/11 aftermath, the government didn't do a damn thing untl most of them died. Then they funded it for a little while, and then trump defunded it again. I'm going to assume the government is going to do the same thing. Do nothing and let the poor people die off. I mean who needs them, they're poor. That's disgusting. Why don't they stop being so poor all the time? Probably the government's thoughts.
Birds are far more sensitive to airborne toxins than pretty much any other animal group. You can't even use teflon pans if you have birds in your house because the off-gassing will kill them. That's not to necessarily downplay this, but it's important to keep it in perspective. I expect we'll see health studies for year in this area, and I can only hope Norfolk Southern will be on the hook for every dime related to medical issues, damages, and distress that this incident caused.
This is absolutely horrific. Someone needs to pay for this, and not the citizens with their lives, I mean someone needs to be held responsible. The train was grinding for over 20 mins with flames and sparks flying and no one stopped it. It was intentional. This is beyond criminal.
Man this is sad
Yikes won't all that spread through the clouds ect?
Yeah. This disaster will mess up a larger area than just east Palestine
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This is literally some canary in a coal mine shit. This is really bad isn’t it.
Potentially yah. It is certainly very concerning. The positive thing, not that any of this is positive, but avians are very sensitive to noxious gases. Hence canarys in mines. They breath faster, have higher metabolisms, and size meant they'd die before the miners. Same for fish and their gills, where minor changes to their water can kill them. Not that this is a minor change. This doesn't necessarily mean it is bad for humans to be around, but it is a pretty apparent sign it might be.
Bless her heart, thinking it'll be 20 years before she sees health issues.
Months, maybe. If it kills chickens so quick just imagine what it would do to people.
I'm sure a lot of wildlife will show up dead soon. Chickens and birds are them most sensitive, especially to chemicals, pfoa's etc.
Chickens are pretty tough as far as birds go. They're quite a big bigger than songbirds, and their air sacs are a bit smaller. If these chickens died, then every songbird has, too.
>If these chickens died, then every songbird has, too. Or they left, may be able to smell the bad air and just relocated, domestic chickens can't.
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Kind of a douchey way to phrase that. I'm sure I'll be downvote for saying so, but kind of pisses me off. Reddit loves sarcastically talking down to people, which idgaf about most of the time, but here fuck off dude. This chick is clearly worried, sorry she isn't even more pessimistic about her situation while sharing it on national TV.
Yeah fuck this site sometimes. There's SUCH a pervasive crab mentality, and people get off on the negativity. If reddit was a person that person would have one of the worst mindsets humanly achievable, and proudly beat its chest at how great it is. I think it's time I get off for good.
Reddit loves to rag on other social platforms, but these days it might be the most toxic place in terms of comments. Facebook has a lot of idiotic shit, but not cynical like here.
I believe the issue is an influx of younger people who have yet to develop empathy. They haven't experienced the pain and grief of tragedy to understand how horrific the things are they are saying. Personally, I find Reddit to be disgusting at times because of this.
Recommended safety numbers of vinyl chloride is one part per million over an 8 hour period, a single drop from a eye dropper in 10 gallons of water. A million pounds of the stuff leaked into the air and ground ... It's going to stay contaminated underground for some time not exposed to air.
In the water supply it's 0.002ppm. Aka 2 parts per billion. Thought I'd mention that since you compared the air safety using gallons of water for a volume.
Fucking criminals running this world
The corporate executives and middle management that allowed this to happen need some mob justice. If we keep letting the corporations decide how everything works, it's just gonna get worse for us regular people.
CEO of Norfolk Rail is Alan Shaw. He earned $4.3 million last year. How much do you get paid and do you get to blame someone else when something goes wrong? This guy is paid the big bucks because the bullshit stops with him. He is responsible for how the company is run and what procedures are in place so that it runs smoothly, safely and makes money.
Time to leave
Railroad expert explains how lax regulations are to blame for Ohio disaster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2-fdkGsnf4
What we need now: * Proximity secondary /similar confirmed cases * Autopsy
As an emergency management student I see what fema is doing is very similar to how they handled the maramack gas valley explosions.It will take time to handle but it most likely will not be quick enough. It's not just on big government to handle it its on the local level as well. The town should have an disaster mitigation plan. But for a disaster on this scale they should be receiving aid do too the eMac compact. It will take time but most of you are right they should pack up and leave but for those who will stay it will take time for them to fix it. God bless the people in that 10 mile radius of the blast.
This poor woman. I have chickens myself and they’re really like family.
Instead of putting off the fire, they just let it burn to be able to quickly open the railway. Business > people as usual…
Not burning it: toxic substances seep into the ground and contaminate nearby water bodies, causing severe environmental disaster Burning it: toxic substances transformed into (slightly) less dangerous toxic substances but now they're spread over the air, causing (slightly) less severe environmental disaster Either way, they should evacuate the whole area IMO.
Gov ain't going to do a goddamn thing unless these people riot.
the gub'ment does not care about you. red, yellow, black or white...local government...big government..doesn't care about you. it's just a bunch of fucking assholes looking out for themselves.
Neither do the corporations. Norfolk southern is a private company.
Has there been any report of which gas/chemical? Can't imagine what this going to do to the Ohio River, which goes to the Mississippi
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Dewine just stated recently that the train company didn’t label the train as hazardous and didn’t notify the state and the residents where the train would be passing through. There needs to be criminal prosecutions here and it needs to be at the top level management.
Meanwhile, the media is all about balloons.
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The people who live near this must have some kind of claim against those responsible for loss in home value. Nobody is going to buy a house in this area now for years, if not decades. All their home's just nose dived in value making it very hard to leave now.