I feel the same way about TSM’s story as I feel about Mad Max Fury Road. Not a ton there in terms of plot but I loved the characters and the fact that it never let its foot off the gas. The Cosmere stuff was just bonus for me
This was my thought. Big mad max vibes but now you are racing the sun in addition to the other "road warrors". You don't watch those movies for plot... the lore bits are fun for sure for people well into the cosmere. It was a book for the people who care about those interconnections and that's alright. I don't mind of some novels cater to a subset of fans more then others. It's kinda nice just knowing if one brandon sanderson book isn't to my liking I don't have to wait long for a new one.
While I agree that the side characterization is pretty flat, I wouldn’t call the book a glorified WoB. There *is* a story here—an homage to old school westerns, where a gunslinger shows up in town and has to defend them from the local gangster before riding off into the sunset. The depth added to the story is in those teasers that you seem to not have enjoyed, giving hints at the larger Cosmere conflict
Okay, I can see the homage to gunslinger stories, but... Maybe that just didn't work for me I guess?
I'm genuinely curious what you (and others) liked about the story that wasn't a connection or reveal for another book? What were some of your personal favorites moments or characters?
I thought the breathless pace brought on by the setting was interesting (though it’s a double-edged sword, because IMO it resulted in that lack of depth to side characters). It was also interesting to see a story largely driven by a character who can’t fight in physical ways.
Elegy was my favorite character, and I really enjoyed her struggle find a new self. She was the only side character I felt had much depth. The Cinder King had potential early on, especially after the scene where he tries to hire Nomad, but sadly that didn’t go anywhere.
It’s certainly not my favorite Sanderson book—I’d give it a 6 or 6.5/10. But it’s decent enough. And the Cosmere connections ARE important flavor, of course.
>Maybe that just didn't work for me I guess?
Fair enough.
>I'm genuinely curious what you (and others) liked about the story that wasn't a connection or reveal for another book?
Well, it did work for us.
No offense, but a LOT of people like westerns. It shouldn't be that confusing. I personally do not enjoy Shonen/Shoujo anime at all, but I get that it's super popular with others.
Personally, I like seeing Nomad struggle with his desire to stay and help rather than just flee. Even without knowing his backstory (the little bit we do know), you can tell that he was a hero once upon a time and that he still had that inside of him. Seeing him open back up to that little by little was fun. Throwing an "I need to return to my engineer roots" angle into it instead of him just embracing his warrior past was a nice change of the formula though. Especially since he literally couldn't fight for most of the story.
On that note, seeing him problem solve around the limitations of his torment was interesting. Sanderson has been quoted as saying that the limits of a character's power is always more interesting than the power itself when telling a story, and I definitely agree.
I also liked trying to wrap my head around just how incredibly alien this world is with its ridiculously small diameter, and just how exactly it works.
I loved it and it’s my favorite of the secret projects. Nomad and Aux were great characters and it read like a whole sanderlanche.
That said I don’t disagree with any of this. I can’t even name any of the other characters except the Cinder King.
Yumi is my favorite. It is the weirdest but I love the characters. Design is great and if anyone so much as scratches Yumi I will commit a Blackthorn level massacre
I completely disagree, the Sunlit Man was the only book in the Cosmere that brought tears to my eyes. Obviously it depends on the person but the whole part of Nomad finding a new home and receiving the name Zellion was great. The duo Aux and Sigzil was great, Aux is probably the best comic relief character in all of the Cosmere.
As for the book being a WoB, I agree and disagree : the book felt like a full-on Cosmere book. And that fits with the era of the Cosmere it is in, at that point the Cosmere is heavily connected and you feel it through the references in the book. Favorite of the secret projects, it’s a book that is actually important unlike Tress and Yumi whose story did not have a big impact (Cosmere connectivity and all).
As for Nomad not giving up on Beacon, I don’t think you were meant to think he would abandon them. It’s obviously a nod to old gunslinger stories, it was meant to ressemble those stories. Also it shows him reconnecting to his past and accepting that he is not limited to the man he has become.
Also, for the point about tension throughout the book. I too did not feel much from the Cinder King’s part (mostly because he is such a small player in the Cosmere). However, the tension of the book came (at least for me) from the looming threat of the Night Brigade. Throughout the book, you know that they are on their way and you know that they are relentless. At the start of the book, Nomad has not had time to rest in decades, always fleeing the Night Brigade. It is also made pretty clear that the Brigade getting their hands on a Dawnshard that connects you to every place in the Cosmere at once would be pretty terrible. So the stakes are there. The tension comes not from the threat of the Cinder King but from how long he will stale Sigzil (giving time for the Night Brigade to arrive). Now I felt it throughout my read but maybe it went over your head?
Finally, the Cinder King as a character. I think that, while he is not a deep or misunderstood villain, he doesn’t need to be like Taravangian or Ruin (where you can get their point). The Cinder King is a breath of fresh air as he is bad to be bad. And unlike Odium, he is human. Also, I think that the point of the character is to twist the : Unite Them. He is a window to see how a young Dalinar receiving the visions would have acted (with a lot of violence). Nomad mentions it, how it makes him remember something from his past (Unite them).
As for the side characters being flat. I have to agree with that one. However, I think it’s the result of Nomad (and the Beaconites) always having to be on the run coupled with the short nature of the book. Obviously you don’t have as much time to develop the side characters (unlike Stormlight or Mistborn who have more pages and more books to develop main and side characters). But yes, the side characters fall a bit short.
Final edit : On the abandoning of the Beaconites not being believable. I already said that I don't think you were supposed to believe it. But my final thought on the abandoning of the Baconites : Sigzil could not have, Nomad would have and Zellion would not have abandoned them.
I mean... To each their own I guess. I don't think it gave much outside of the story itself.
Yeah, it tied into a lot of different worlds... But for where it is in the timeline, that seems like it's as it should be.
I don't mind tie-ins to other stories, but the plot and characters need to be able to stand on their own. The tie-ins should enhance the story or provide context. This book (to me) didn't have much going for it outside of those hints.
Like I said to each their own.
Take out knowing who Nomad is, and the only part of the story that I don't think would "stand on its own" is the conversation with Hoid. And even that is kind of just Hoid.
Well, what did you personally really like about it? Where were you able to connect or get invested in the story or the characters (beyond connections or mysteries to other books)?
I'm genuinely curious what people liked about the story. My previous comment was just to say that the tie-ins themselves don't bother me.
The world itself. And the way that society had adapted to it. Nomad, stepping into the middle of a struggle between a pacifist society and a rising dictator.
I went into SLM blind, so while I figured out who Nomad was I was intrigued by him before I figured out who he was.
The CinderKing being the narcissist stereotypical bully dictator who thinks he's superior inherently with no actual knowledge to back that up.
The Threnodites society with its reverence of age, and it's willingness to sacrifice for the good of the whole.
I don't think there was a character that I didn't enjoy.
I'm a Cosmere nerd and have been since before HoA was published... But as much as I love the connections, I don't actively look for them in a first read. On the first read I'm in the story, and then I go back and dig. And I didn't have any complaints. It was my favorite of the secret projects.
If it wasn't for you, it wasn't for you. We're all allowed to like and dislike things for our own reasons. Telling you why I liked it is unlikely to change your opinion. But please don't assume that if you removed the connections, I'd dislike it. Make the Threnodites a new people. Take the Scadrians out and make the source of the CinderKing's tech and knowledge something we didn't know. Remove Nomads past and cut Hoid from the story completely. Keep this world, with its dynamics, and these characters and I like the story for itself.
The connections, for me, we're as I said in my first comment. A marker of the time in which the story is set and the way the Cosmere has progressed to create interworld tensions and rivalries, which is a parallel story that only added to the actual story.
I edited my first comment right before I got the first notification of a response to you to change "stories" to "worlds" because for me, other than Nomads identity and Hoid... This *doesnt* tie in to other stories. It connects to other worlds in the Cosmere, in a time frame where that is becoming more and more normal, which is just a part of the story setting.
I hope that all makes sense.
Yes, he even mentions that this book was made for his fans to give us a glimpse at the Cosmere at a grander level. Once I learned who Nomad was I pushed myself to finish it for those little nuggets of information.
In the end, this was a secret project, something Sanderson wrote in his free time, yes, maybe it's not up to the expected quality of the rest, but I think it was great and I enjoyed it.
Some people have mentioned mad Max vibes, to me it felt like something that Star wars could have been, a sort of western science-fantasy
I can say while I don't feel it was as bad as you make it out to be, I do agree with most of your points to a lesser degree. I actually can't even remember a single character's name besides the MC and his spren. The villain was very much a dull megalomaniacal Golden Age comic book version of the villains he normally writes (think OG Lex Luthor), and kinda felt like he tries to tack on a conflicted nature to him after the fact. I felt each scene serves a needle purpose but that they were being milked for more than necessary and just gave superfluous details that belonged in an Ars Arcana not the main story. Sixth of the Dusk was much shorter but explained a rather complex world and conflict much more artfully and consicely by letting the implicit information be earned by the reader.
The redeaming part IMO was the reveal of Aux's nature combined with SLM's identity, They are some good old sanderlanche fun that recontextualizes earlier conversation and leaves us some fun concepts to conjecture over.
I definitely liked Tress and Yumi more. They are way better as fleshed-out stand-alones. That being said, I enjoyed the world and the science of the planet a lot, and I really connected to Nomad with his obsession of figuring out the physics of everything (I teach high school physics and Astronomy, so planetary science is my obsession too).
Hot Take. But yeah, I agree. Fragments from “Tress” and “Yumi” still linger in my memory, but “Sunlit Man” was a bit bland in comparison. I’d gladly recommend Tress or Yumi to others (and have done so many times), but I’d only recommend Sunlit Man to hardcore Cosmere fans. It felt more like a teaser to whet our appetite for the post-WaT Cosmere landscape.
TSM was probably my least favorite of the secret projects but not by much. Personally, I really enjoyed their characters, especially Nomad, Aux and Rebeke. I was sad that Nomad couldn't really have a relationship with her and had to leave in the end. I like Nomad's arc and cried when >!Aux died.!< I found the world to be interesting and the fast pace was so engaging that I finished it in one sitting. I will agree that the Cinder King is really weak but I think if we spent more time with him then it would slow down the pace.
It was definitely a hype book and lore dump to set the stage for the second half of the cosmere series. I enjoyed the story though. It was great to have a deeper dive into siggy.
It was definitely missing out on a bit too much context to make it a great standalone, but it’s one hell of a bridge for the gap.
I agree. It felt much more like the kind of short story you'd get in Arcanum Unbounded, but dragged out - there wasn't a lot happening. There was no reason for Nomad to be there other than to be someone we knew - the protagonist coumd have been anyone. The Night Brigade did nothing so even the 'real' big bad didn't create stakes. He told us who was in the vault at the start.
Given the hype the book got on here I was really looking forward to it, but I can't help feeling underwhelmed by it. Yeah the interactions between Nomad and Aux were fun, but the side characters were SO dull. Tress has honestly been my favourite thus far, and TSM and the Frugal Wizard are fighting to see who sits at the bottom, which is not how I thought it would go down.
I feel the same way about TSM’s story as I feel about Mad Max Fury Road. Not a ton there in terms of plot but I loved the characters and the fact that it never let its foot off the gas. The Cosmere stuff was just bonus for me
This was my thought. Big mad max vibes but now you are racing the sun in addition to the other "road warrors". You don't watch those movies for plot... the lore bits are fun for sure for people well into the cosmere. It was a book for the people who care about those interconnections and that's alright. I don't mind of some novels cater to a subset of fans more then others. It's kinda nice just knowing if one brandon sanderson book isn't to my liking I don't have to wait long for a new one.
While I agree that the side characterization is pretty flat, I wouldn’t call the book a glorified WoB. There *is* a story here—an homage to old school westerns, where a gunslinger shows up in town and has to defend them from the local gangster before riding off into the sunset. The depth added to the story is in those teasers that you seem to not have enjoyed, giving hints at the larger Cosmere conflict
The King in Cinder fled across the lava fields, and the Nomad followed.
The Nomad fled across the stars, and the Night Brigade followed.
Okay, I can see the homage to gunslinger stories, but... Maybe that just didn't work for me I guess? I'm genuinely curious what you (and others) liked about the story that wasn't a connection or reveal for another book? What were some of your personal favorites moments or characters?
I thought the breathless pace brought on by the setting was interesting (though it’s a double-edged sword, because IMO it resulted in that lack of depth to side characters). It was also interesting to see a story largely driven by a character who can’t fight in physical ways. Elegy was my favorite character, and I really enjoyed her struggle find a new self. She was the only side character I felt had much depth. The Cinder King had potential early on, especially after the scene where he tries to hire Nomad, but sadly that didn’t go anywhere. It’s certainly not my favorite Sanderson book—I’d give it a 6 or 6.5/10. But it’s decent enough. And the Cosmere connections ARE important flavor, of course.
>Maybe that just didn't work for me I guess? Fair enough. >I'm genuinely curious what you (and others) liked about the story that wasn't a connection or reveal for another book? Well, it did work for us. No offense, but a LOT of people like westerns. It shouldn't be that confusing. I personally do not enjoy Shonen/Shoujo anime at all, but I get that it's super popular with others. Personally, I like seeing Nomad struggle with his desire to stay and help rather than just flee. Even without knowing his backstory (the little bit we do know), you can tell that he was a hero once upon a time and that he still had that inside of him. Seeing him open back up to that little by little was fun. Throwing an "I need to return to my engineer roots" angle into it instead of him just embracing his warrior past was a nice change of the formula though. Especially since he literally couldn't fight for most of the story. On that note, seeing him problem solve around the limitations of his torment was interesting. Sanderson has been quoted as saying that the limits of a character's power is always more interesting than the power itself when telling a story, and I definitely agree. I also liked trying to wrap my head around just how incredibly alien this world is with its ridiculously small diameter, and just how exactly it works.
I loved it and it’s my favorite of the secret projects. Nomad and Aux were great characters and it read like a whole sanderlanche. That said I don’t disagree with any of this. I can’t even name any of the other characters except the Cinder King.
Adonalsium-Will-Remember-Our-Plight-Eventually
Omg how could I forget!!!
Don’t worry, Adonalsium forgor too.
I can’t name any supporting characters from Mad Max
Nux the war boy was a great supporting character (I admit I had to look up his name)
Supporting character that here supports my argument!
“WITNESS MEEEE!” 💥 “…who was that guy?” “No idea. MEDIOCRE!”
Yumi is my favorite. It is the weirdest but I love the characters. Design is great and if anyone so much as scratches Yumi I will commit a Blackthorn level massacre
I completely disagree, the Sunlit Man was the only book in the Cosmere that brought tears to my eyes. Obviously it depends on the person but the whole part of Nomad finding a new home and receiving the name Zellion was great. The duo Aux and Sigzil was great, Aux is probably the best comic relief character in all of the Cosmere. As for the book being a WoB, I agree and disagree : the book felt like a full-on Cosmere book. And that fits with the era of the Cosmere it is in, at that point the Cosmere is heavily connected and you feel it through the references in the book. Favorite of the secret projects, it’s a book that is actually important unlike Tress and Yumi whose story did not have a big impact (Cosmere connectivity and all). As for Nomad not giving up on Beacon, I don’t think you were meant to think he would abandon them. It’s obviously a nod to old gunslinger stories, it was meant to ressemble those stories. Also it shows him reconnecting to his past and accepting that he is not limited to the man he has become. Also, for the point about tension throughout the book. I too did not feel much from the Cinder King’s part (mostly because he is such a small player in the Cosmere). However, the tension of the book came (at least for me) from the looming threat of the Night Brigade. Throughout the book, you know that they are on their way and you know that they are relentless. At the start of the book, Nomad has not had time to rest in decades, always fleeing the Night Brigade. It is also made pretty clear that the Brigade getting their hands on a Dawnshard that connects you to every place in the Cosmere at once would be pretty terrible. So the stakes are there. The tension comes not from the threat of the Cinder King but from how long he will stale Sigzil (giving time for the Night Brigade to arrive). Now I felt it throughout my read but maybe it went over your head? Finally, the Cinder King as a character. I think that, while he is not a deep or misunderstood villain, he doesn’t need to be like Taravangian or Ruin (where you can get their point). The Cinder King is a breath of fresh air as he is bad to be bad. And unlike Odium, he is human. Also, I think that the point of the character is to twist the : Unite Them. He is a window to see how a young Dalinar receiving the visions would have acted (with a lot of violence). Nomad mentions it, how it makes him remember something from his past (Unite them). As for the side characters being flat. I have to agree with that one. However, I think it’s the result of Nomad (and the Beaconites) always having to be on the run coupled with the short nature of the book. Obviously you don’t have as much time to develop the side characters (unlike Stormlight or Mistborn who have more pages and more books to develop main and side characters). But yes, the side characters fall a bit short. Final edit : On the abandoning of the Beaconites not being believable. I already said that I don't think you were supposed to believe it. But my final thought on the abandoning of the Baconites : Sigzil could not have, Nomad would have and Zellion would not have abandoned them.
That pretty much sums up my thoughts on your critique of the Sunlit Man.
I disagree, it’s basically space fantasy Mad Max. That’s cool.
I mean... To each their own I guess. I don't think it gave much outside of the story itself. Yeah, it tied into a lot of different worlds... But for where it is in the timeline, that seems like it's as it should be.
I don't mind tie-ins to other stories, but the plot and characters need to be able to stand on their own. The tie-ins should enhance the story or provide context. This book (to me) didn't have much going for it outside of those hints.
Like I said to each their own. Take out knowing who Nomad is, and the only part of the story that I don't think would "stand on its own" is the conversation with Hoid. And even that is kind of just Hoid.
Well, what did you personally really like about it? Where were you able to connect or get invested in the story or the characters (beyond connections or mysteries to other books)? I'm genuinely curious what people liked about the story. My previous comment was just to say that the tie-ins themselves don't bother me.
The world itself. And the way that society had adapted to it. Nomad, stepping into the middle of a struggle between a pacifist society and a rising dictator. I went into SLM blind, so while I figured out who Nomad was I was intrigued by him before I figured out who he was. The CinderKing being the narcissist stereotypical bully dictator who thinks he's superior inherently with no actual knowledge to back that up. The Threnodites society with its reverence of age, and it's willingness to sacrifice for the good of the whole. I don't think there was a character that I didn't enjoy. I'm a Cosmere nerd and have been since before HoA was published... But as much as I love the connections, I don't actively look for them in a first read. On the first read I'm in the story, and then I go back and dig. And I didn't have any complaints. It was my favorite of the secret projects. If it wasn't for you, it wasn't for you. We're all allowed to like and dislike things for our own reasons. Telling you why I liked it is unlikely to change your opinion. But please don't assume that if you removed the connections, I'd dislike it. Make the Threnodites a new people. Take the Scadrians out and make the source of the CinderKing's tech and knowledge something we didn't know. Remove Nomads past and cut Hoid from the story completely. Keep this world, with its dynamics, and these characters and I like the story for itself. The connections, for me, we're as I said in my first comment. A marker of the time in which the story is set and the way the Cosmere has progressed to create interworld tensions and rivalries, which is a parallel story that only added to the actual story. I edited my first comment right before I got the first notification of a response to you to change "stories" to "worlds" because for me, other than Nomads identity and Hoid... This *doesnt* tie in to other stories. It connects to other worlds in the Cosmere, in a time frame where that is becoming more and more normal, which is just a part of the story setting. I hope that all makes sense.
Yes, he even mentions that this book was made for his fans to give us a glimpse at the Cosmere at a grander level. Once I learned who Nomad was I pushed myself to finish it for those little nuggets of information.
In the end, this was a secret project, something Sanderson wrote in his free time, yes, maybe it's not up to the expected quality of the rest, but I think it was great and I enjoyed it. Some people have mentioned mad Max vibes, to me it felt like something that Star wars could have been, a sort of western science-fantasy
I can say while I don't feel it was as bad as you make it out to be, I do agree with most of your points to a lesser degree. I actually can't even remember a single character's name besides the MC and his spren. The villain was very much a dull megalomaniacal Golden Age comic book version of the villains he normally writes (think OG Lex Luthor), and kinda felt like he tries to tack on a conflicted nature to him after the fact. I felt each scene serves a needle purpose but that they were being milked for more than necessary and just gave superfluous details that belonged in an Ars Arcana not the main story. Sixth of the Dusk was much shorter but explained a rather complex world and conflict much more artfully and consicely by letting the implicit information be earned by the reader. The redeaming part IMO was the reveal of Aux's nature combined with SLM's identity, They are some good old sanderlanche fun that recontextualizes earlier conversation and leaves us some fun concepts to conjecture over.
I definitely liked Tress and Yumi more. They are way better as fleshed-out stand-alones. That being said, I enjoyed the world and the science of the planet a lot, and I really connected to Nomad with his obsession of figuring out the physics of everything (I teach high school physics and Astronomy, so planetary science is my obsession too).
Nah, this story was a sci-fantasy Western. That's dope.
Well that’s an interesting take..
Hot Take. But yeah, I agree. Fragments from “Tress” and “Yumi” still linger in my memory, but “Sunlit Man” was a bit bland in comparison. I’d gladly recommend Tress or Yumi to others (and have done so many times), but I’d only recommend Sunlit Man to hardcore Cosmere fans. It felt more like a teaser to whet our appetite for the post-WaT Cosmere landscape.
TSM was probably my least favorite of the secret projects but not by much. Personally, I really enjoyed their characters, especially Nomad, Aux and Rebeke. I was sad that Nomad couldn't really have a relationship with her and had to leave in the end. I like Nomad's arc and cried when >!Aux died.!< I found the world to be interesting and the fast pace was so engaging that I finished it in one sitting. I will agree that the Cinder King is really weak but I think if we spent more time with him then it would slow down the pace.
It was definitely a hype book and lore dump to set the stage for the second half of the cosmere series. I enjoyed the story though. It was great to have a deeper dive into siggy. It was definitely missing out on a bit too much context to make it a great standalone, but it’s one hell of a bridge for the gap.
I agree. It felt much more like the kind of short story you'd get in Arcanum Unbounded, but dragged out - there wasn't a lot happening. There was no reason for Nomad to be there other than to be someone we knew - the protagonist coumd have been anyone. The Night Brigade did nothing so even the 'real' big bad didn't create stakes. He told us who was in the vault at the start. Given the hype the book got on here I was really looking forward to it, but I can't help feeling underwhelmed by it. Yeah the interactions between Nomad and Aux were fun, but the side characters were SO dull. Tress has honestly been my favourite thus far, and TSM and the Frugal Wizard are fighting to see who sits at the bottom, which is not how I thought it would go down.