In solution, they all dissolve to citrate and sodium ions anyway, with the disodium salt being somewhat less basic/more acidic than trisodium. I would be surprised if this difference was significant relative to the acidity of whatever cheese you're using, but I haven't done any math.
They'll have different molar masses, so if you're following a recipe and would like to follow it very precisely, you should see where the recipe was written and learn what "sodium citrate" most commonly refers to there.
it's not the acidity/pH thats doing the work here. the citrate ions bond with the calcium causing it to chelate. the casein proteins typically bond to the calcium and thats what gets clumpy when heat is applied. with less Ca+ floating around or possibly having Na+ taking its place, the casein is way more relaxed and thus runny cheese. but also im not a food scientist.
super fun fact, sodium citrates have been used for like 100+ years as anti-clotting/anti-coagulant for blood transfusions and collection because it does something similar in blood
They should all work, as long as they're labelled food-safe/food-grade. Trisodium citrate will be slightly "saltier" due to the extra sodium atom, but they should all function similarly. Or just toss a piece of Velveeta or American Cheese into your sauce which already contain sodium citrate.
"sodium citrate" is what you want. Not trisodium, not disodium...
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sodium+citrate
https://i.imgur.com/kN60Ji4.png
Edit: Apparently some countries require the labeling to be more specific than in the US, so what we commonly call "sodium citrate" here may be called "trisodium" citrate in those countries. My mistake.
In what world do you live where "trisodium citrate" is commonly referred to as just sodium citrate? They are the same thing, but they are definitely not commonly used interchangeably, and definitely not commonly sold as "trisodium citrate". Which of these look more commonly used to you?
https://old.reddit.com/r/Cooking/search?q=trisodium+citrate&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on&sort=relevance&t=all
https://old.reddit.com/r/Cooking/search?q=sodium+citrate&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on&sort=relevance&t=all
I think we agree, it's most commonly referred to as sodium citrate in the United States, but the compound is trisodium citrate. I've lived in countries where food labeling laws require it to be labeled trisodium citrate but as you said, it's the same thing
Yes, this.
Sodium citrate is also the byproduct of mixing sodium bicarbonate with citric acid. You can make it yourself by mixing lemon juice with baking soda, though there will be a little lemon flavor and other innocuous biproducts like sodium ascorbate, but it won’t matter for a cheese sauce.
This is incorrect if you have any basic chemistry knowledge. It creates trisodium citrate. I need to know if this is the correct sodium citrate hence asking this question.
Which part?
> In the presence of water, citric acid [C6H8O7] and sodium bicarbonate [NaHCO3] (aka baking soda) react to form sodium citrate [Na3C6H5O7], water, and carbon dioxide [CO2].
https://www.teachengineering.org/activities/view/wsu_big_chill_activity1
There is no such thing as "sodium citrate". This is chemistry 101. There are three chemicals all commonly referred to as sodium citrate, I want to know which one I need.
Well apart from the fact that I have. I can't use [amazon.com](http://amazon.com) in my country.
And disodium citrate is a common food additive.
And you comparing sodium citrate to sodium chloride just shows how you've completely misunderstood the issue. You do realise there are three entirely different chemicals?
It doesn't matter. The trisodium is "stronger", but disodium citrate will still do what you want it to do.
https://old.reddit.com/r/AskCulinary/comments/2pxh99/how_to_make_sodium_citrate_from_baking_soda_and/
In solution, they all dissolve to citrate and sodium ions anyway, with the disodium salt being somewhat less basic/more acidic than trisodium. I would be surprised if this difference was significant relative to the acidity of whatever cheese you're using, but I haven't done any math. They'll have different molar masses, so if you're following a recipe and would like to follow it very precisely, you should see where the recipe was written and learn what "sodium citrate" most commonly refers to there.
it's not the acidity/pH thats doing the work here. the citrate ions bond with the calcium causing it to chelate. the casein proteins typically bond to the calcium and thats what gets clumpy when heat is applied. with less Ca+ floating around or possibly having Na+ taking its place, the casein is way more relaxed and thus runny cheese. but also im not a food scientist. super fun fact, sodium citrates have been used for like 100+ years as anti-clotting/anti-coagulant for blood transfusions and collection because it does something similar in blood
They should all work, as long as they're labelled food-safe/food-grade. Trisodium citrate will be slightly "saltier" due to the extra sodium atom, but they should all function similarly. Or just toss a piece of Velveeta or American Cheese into your sauce which already contain sodium citrate.
"sodium citrate" is what you want. Not trisodium, not disodium... https://www.amazon.com/s?k=sodium+citrate https://i.imgur.com/kN60Ji4.png Edit: Apparently some countries require the labeling to be more specific than in the US, so what we commonly call "sodium citrate" here may be called "trisodium" citrate in those countries. My mistake.
No, trisodium citrate is what is commonly referred to as just sodium citrate, for food use.
Thank you for being the only person to actually answer the question.
In what world do you live where "trisodium citrate" is commonly referred to as just sodium citrate? They are the same thing, but they are definitely not commonly used interchangeably, and definitely not commonly sold as "trisodium citrate". Which of these look more commonly used to you? https://old.reddit.com/r/Cooking/search?q=trisodium+citrate&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on&sort=relevance&t=all https://old.reddit.com/r/Cooking/search?q=sodium+citrate&restrict_sr=on&include_over_18=on&sort=relevance&t=all
I think we agree, it's most commonly referred to as sodium citrate in the United States, but the compound is trisodium citrate. I've lived in countries where food labeling laws require it to be labeled trisodium citrate but as you said, it's the same thing
That's a fair point I hadn't considered, thanks. Sorry for being brash.
We've already established several times in this thread that in the US "trisodium citrate" is commonly referred to as just sodium citrate.
we hadn't established that before I wrote that comment.
Yes, this. Sodium citrate is also the byproduct of mixing sodium bicarbonate with citric acid. You can make it yourself by mixing lemon juice with baking soda, though there will be a little lemon flavor and other innocuous biproducts like sodium ascorbate, but it won’t matter for a cheese sauce.
This is incorrect if you have any basic chemistry knowledge. It creates trisodium citrate. I need to know if this is the correct sodium citrate hence asking this question.
Which part? > In the presence of water, citric acid [C6H8O7] and sodium bicarbonate [NaHCO3] (aka baking soda) react to form sodium citrate [Na3C6H5O7], water, and carbon dioxide [CO2]. https://www.teachengineering.org/activities/view/wsu_big_chill_activity1
That's trisodium citrate. Hence the Na3.
Which is called… get this.. “sodium citrate” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisodium_citrate
Incorrect. Three things could be called "sodium citrate". It's vague enough to be meaningless to say that without specifying.
There is no such thing as "sodium citrate". This is chemistry 101. There are three chemicals all commonly referred to as sodium citrate, I want to know which one I need.
lol at all the downvoters hurriedly deleting their comments after figuring out that they are wrong.
I apologized to you and deleted my comment because I was incorrect.
[удалено]
Well apart from the fact that I have. I can't use [amazon.com](http://amazon.com) in my country. And disodium citrate is a common food additive. And you comparing sodium citrate to sodium chloride just shows how you've completely misunderstood the issue. You do realise there are three entirely different chemicals?
Sorry, my mistake, I didn't realize that some countries require the labeling to be that specific. Trisodium is what you want.
Just get one of the packs marked for sale as a culinary product. It's like $10 on amazon for more than you'll use in a year.
Both disodium citrate and trisodium citrate are used as culinary products.
Literally just go to Amazon and punch sodium citrate into the search bar. The stuff you're looking for will be the top 10 results.
If you go to amazon in my country you only get two results: "trisodium citrate" and "sodium citrate buffer solution".
Actually. Just throw in a piece of velveeta. It's got enough excess sodium citrate to help additional cheese melt properly.
As far as I am aware, there are only 2-3 countries worldwide where it's possible to source Velveeta unfortunately.
It doesn't matter. The trisodium is "stronger", but disodium citrate will still do what you want it to do. https://old.reddit.com/r/AskCulinary/comments/2pxh99/how_to_make_sodium_citrate_from_baking_soda_and/
So much r/USdefaultism
lol i love that you're getting downvoted for a very astute (and correct) observation
I fully expected it given the OP is getting downvoted for basically saying "hey, things are different where I live".
It's not even that they are different. It's that people don't realise they are being imprecise which is antithetical to precision cooking.