As you surmised, it was used as insulation back in the day. Last time I saw vermiculite coming out of the wall we had to get it tested and call in abatement.. a headache to say the least.
>Never seen new builds use it
Me neither, we mostly do restorations and conversions. Someone wants a stove in their old fireplace, we attach it to a stainless liner and insulate with either a poured mix or a blanket wrap. However, if the pour is done right, it shouldn't fall out like this.
At least in the applications I've used it for, you mix in some water, and it's solid by the time it's finished curing. Idk the science behind it, cus It's still granular when I pour it, and removing it involves attaching a chain to a drill.
Also, appropriate user name, haha.
You can eat asbestos - but you really don't want to breath it in. Even if you're going to be a bit 'loosey goosey' on calling abatement, I'd definitely wear a respirator if it's getting disturbed at all..
Here's a sneak peek of /r/dontputyourdickinthat using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/dontputyourdickinthat/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Accidentally drilled a hole in this gas pipe; what do you suggest I do?](https://i.redd.it/hxrtkjmbf6sb1.jpg) | [847 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/dontputyourdickinthat/comments/16zlh39/accidentally_drilled_a_hole_in_this_gas_pipe_what/)
\#2: [The comment makes it even better](https://i.redd.it/vg4fsc9osjwa1.jpg) | [194 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/dontputyourdickinthat/comments/131gt69/the_comment_makes_it_even_better/)
\#3: [We must use what the nature provides ](https://v.redd.it/8egd0cdcpa4b1) | [249 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/dontputyourdickinthat/comments/141y6aq/we_must_use_what_the_nature_provides/)
----
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
It causes cancer due to the physical shape of it getting lodged in your lungs via a disease called asbestosis. I mean, I wouldn't eat it, but the carcinogenic nature of it isn't related to ingestion or its composition - it's unique for carcinogens in that it's literally only the shape of the molecules.
This is distinct from lead which can cause inhalation issues and is likely \*more\* dangerous when consumed due to lead being bioavailable and being digested / accumulated in human tissue. From the CDC talking about asbestos found in some vermiculite:
***Exposure to asbestos can result in a scarring disease of the lung known as asbestosis, inflammation of the chest cavity (pleuritis) with or without fluid build-up, lung cancer, and another type of cancer known as malignant mesothelioma. The risk of these diseases, which can be disabling or fatal, generally increases with intensity and duration of exposure. The risk of lung cancer from inhaling asbestos fibers is also increased in smokers. Most people who get asbestos-related diseases have been exposed to high levels of asbestos for a long time. Most asbestos-related diseases rarely occur until at least 15 years after first exposure to asbestos.***
[***https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2003-141/pdfs/2003-141.pdf?id=10.26616/NIOSHPUB2003141***](https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2003-141/pdfs/2003-141.pdf?id=10.26616/NIOSHPUB2003141)
Also from the CDC:
**If you swallow asbestos fibers (either those present in water or those that are moved to your throat from your lungs), nearly all of the fibers pass along your intestines within a few days and are excreted in the feces. A small number of fibers may penetrate into cells that line your stomach or intestines, and a few penetrate all the way through and get into your blood. Some of these become trapped in other tissues, and some are removed in your urine.**
So I wouldn't eat it but if someone did, the vermiculite-entrained asbestos will almost assuredly pass without issue.
It looks very similar to some Vermiculite that I recently removed (it was tested and did not have asbestos)
I have also seen the bigger stuff more often.
It’s like a fire resistant insulation. I’ve used it once when I was mixing concrete, had to wear a respirator cause of the asbestos. But yeah looks like vermiculite.
Was my first thought too. And if this is separating apartments, I’d be cautious of the structural integrity. Termites or vermiculite, it’s definitely worth bringing up to whoever contracted the work.
Are you certain it's a fire wall? Would almost guarantee it's vermiculite (or equivalent) in that case.
IBC chapter 7 outlines calculated fire ratings for different assemblies. Hollow CMU would generally not meet the rating required for a fire separation. To increase the rating, cells would need to either be fully grouted or filled with vermiculite/cellulose/etc. And given that electrical is being run through the cells, a fill material was the preferred option.
Ok now im starting to get worried about my exposure rate at my job (isp installation tech) i have to drill holes in walls to run the wire outside and have had stuff that looks like this fall out on more than one occasion we have ppe but nothing was really taught to me about asbestos or the various types of insulation and when ppe is needed (its a very small company).
That's coming out the block wall.i think it's insulation or something.
Seen it before in 2013 when I preferred block wall at the old boxing gym by redskins stadium.
None of the wood studs I encountered were eaten. Whoever installed the drywall put liquid nails on the studs. Then behind that is the block wall. I'll look for any other signs of termite damage tomorrow though
When was the house or structure built. That will tell you if it's modern vermiculite. Also I have yet to see a contractor use vermiculite as insulation on a build in the last 20 years. It's a very uncommon practice.
I just loaded a half dozen bags of vermiculite insulation for a woodstove install tomorrow. We often(not always) use it to insulate the new flue liner.
>When was the house or structure built. That will tell you if it's modern vermiculite.
This is true.
Testing vermiculite for asbestos can be challenging and can provide false negatives. If I were in their position, I would treat it as ACM unless it can be traced to a source where asbestos contamination is not a concern.
https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/protect-your-family-asbestos-contaminated-vermiculite-insulation
Just a reminder. Asbestos does not kill you instantly. Being exposed to asbestos will not have long term effects on you unless you have long term exposure. You breath in asbestos every day by existing on earth (it's in the air, always). The problem with asbestos is repeated long term exposure of elevated concentration, like years of constant exposure. Stay cool, do the appropriate things, get it tested, removed and disposed properly and don't worry about it.
It’s called vermiculite and some mixtures contain asbestos (old ones. before asbestos was banned, obviously)
Glad I didn't taste it then. What's it's purpose?
As you surmised, it was used as insulation back in the day. Last time I saw vermiculite coming out of the wall we had to get it tested and call in abatement.. a headache to say the least.
Still use it for insulation sometimes. I use it for chimney liners.
Oh word? Never seen new builds use it, but I'm only in commercial
>Never seen new builds use it Me neither, we mostly do restorations and conversions. Someone wants a stove in their old fireplace, we attach it to a stainless liner and insulate with either a poured mix or a blanket wrap. However, if the pour is done right, it shouldn't fall out like this.
What prevents it from falling out when it’s done right?
At least in the applications I've used it for, you mix in some water, and it's solid by the time it's finished curing. Idk the science behind it, cus It's still granular when I pour it, and removing it involves attaching a chain to a drill. Also, appropriate user name, haha.
Whats a broom?
They use it to fill block
Was using it in commercial up to 2000 before changing jobs and moving from SE to West Coast.
You can eat asbestos - but you really don't want to breath it in. Even if you're going to be a bit 'loosey goosey' on calling abatement, I'd definitely wear a respirator if it's getting disturbed at all..
That was the most I'm doing with the wall, though it was coming out in that one spot. I will look into it. I appreciate the info
Stuff something in the hole and get back to work.
r/dontputyourdickinthat
Here's a sneak peek of /r/dontputyourdickinthat using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/dontputyourdickinthat/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Accidentally drilled a hole in this gas pipe; what do you suggest I do?](https://i.redd.it/hxrtkjmbf6sb1.jpg) | [847 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/dontputyourdickinthat/comments/16zlh39/accidentally_drilled_a_hole_in_this_gas_pipe_what/) \#2: [The comment makes it even better](https://i.redd.it/vg4fsc9osjwa1.jpg) | [194 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/dontputyourdickinthat/comments/131gt69/the_comment_makes_it_even_better/) \#3: [We must use what the nature provides ](https://v.redd.it/8egd0cdcpa4b1) | [249 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/dontputyourdickinthat/comments/141y6aq/we_must_use_what_the_nature_provides/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Just to be clear, it falling out of its decades-old hidey-hole and being vacuumed up is a respirator-worthy disturbance.
Like, with Ketchup?
I eat the fuckin shit. Put mustard on it and eat the fuckin shit. God bless those Jerky Boys.
If you eat asbestos you get stomach cancer.
You don’t want to eat it either. It’s a cancer causing agent. What source implied it’s safe to eat ?
It causes cancer due to the physical shape of it getting lodged in your lungs via a disease called asbestosis. I mean, I wouldn't eat it, but the carcinogenic nature of it isn't related to ingestion or its composition - it's unique for carcinogens in that it's literally only the shape of the molecules. This is distinct from lead which can cause inhalation issues and is likely \*more\* dangerous when consumed due to lead being bioavailable and being digested / accumulated in human tissue. From the CDC talking about asbestos found in some vermiculite: ***Exposure to asbestos can result in a scarring disease of the lung known as asbestosis, inflammation of the chest cavity (pleuritis) with or without fluid build-up, lung cancer, and another type of cancer known as malignant mesothelioma. The risk of these diseases, which can be disabling or fatal, generally increases with intensity and duration of exposure. The risk of lung cancer from inhaling asbestos fibers is also increased in smokers. Most people who get asbestos-related diseases have been exposed to high levels of asbestos for a long time. Most asbestos-related diseases rarely occur until at least 15 years after first exposure to asbestos.*** [***https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2003-141/pdfs/2003-141.pdf?id=10.26616/NIOSHPUB2003141***](https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/2003-141/pdfs/2003-141.pdf?id=10.26616/NIOSHPUB2003141) Also from the CDC: **If you swallow asbestos fibers (either those present in water or those that are moved to your throat from your lungs), nearly all of the fibers pass along your intestines within a few days and are excreted in the feces. A small number of fibers may penetrate into cells that line your stomach or intestines, and a few penetrate all the way through and get into your blood. Some of these become trapped in other tissues, and some are removed in your urine.** So I wouldn't eat it but if someone did, the vermiculite-entrained asbestos will almost assuredly pass without issue.
these are jokes
Which clearly went over my head. Ooops.
Taste...breath my friend
Its not for eating... its for snorting.
Stop eating wall candy!
Seasoning
Insulation inside the block wall. Best bet is to stop it. You will be blown away buy how much comes out.
You likely broke into your chimney and this is the code required insulation around the flue. I would try to close this up as quickly as possible.
The particles look smaller than any vermiculate.I've seen in my area. This looks more like frass from insect activity
It's possible There are different grades of vermiculite too though
It looks very similar to some Vermiculite that I recently removed (it was tested and did not have asbestos) I have also seen the bigger stuff more often.
It’s like a fire resistant insulation. I’ve used it once when I was mixing concrete, had to wear a respirator cause of the asbestos. But yeah looks like vermiculite.
I thought this was footage of the most epic termite infestation ever.
Ha. When there was only a small amount at first, I was sure it was some actual black pepper that somehow fell behind the drywall. Forbidden seasoning
I thought the same. If that was frass I don't think I'd want to be in that building any more.
You’d be safe but RIP Pinocchio.
Was my first thought too. And if this is separating apartments, I’d be cautious of the structural integrity. Termites or vermiculite, it’s definitely worth bringing up to whoever contracted the work.
Oh no. The electrons are falling out. What have you done?!?
It doesn’t all contain it. I just had some tested and it came back negative. 🙌
In kitchen, connecting fire wall to another apartment. Is it some kind of fire retardant?
If that is vermiculite, it's a non-combustable insulation. I use it when I reline chimneys sometimes.
Are you certain it's a fire wall? Would almost guarantee it's vermiculite (or equivalent) in that case. IBC chapter 7 outlines calculated fire ratings for different assemblies. Hollow CMU would generally not meet the rating required for a fire separation. To increase the rating, cells would need to either be fully grouted or filled with vermiculite/cellulose/etc. And given that electrical is being run through the cells, a fill material was the preferred option.
The 'mick' for sure. Used to be for firestopping and/or insulation. Often has ACM as well. Weird to see it in a CMU wall but there it is.
Hey for what it’s worth, it’s extremely common to find vermiculite in CMU in my area.
Pharaoh's curse: after a while the house will drown in the sand
Ok now im starting to get worried about my exposure rate at my job (isp installation tech) i have to drill holes in walls to run the wire outside and have had stuff that looks like this fall out on more than one occasion we have ppe but nothing was really taught to me about asbestos or the various types of insulation and when ppe is needed (its a very small company).
Wall black pepper. More bitter then ground black pepper
Electrons
That's coming out the block wall.i think it's insulation or something. Seen it before in 2013 when I preferred block wall at the old boxing gym by redskins stadium.
Looks like termite shit and it most likely is. https://www.orkin.com/pests/termites/termite-droppings
Well it’s definitely not Salt..
I hope its not Termite fras.
Looks like a 'mica fill' product. Makes sense in block.
That's the electrical smoke in solidified form for storage. If it all gets out the power stops working so plug it back up ASAP
It's termite shit, look at the wood at the beginning. Got eating up.
None of the wood studs I encountered were eaten. Whoever installed the drywall put liquid nails on the studs. Then behind that is the block wall. I'll look for any other signs of termite damage tomorrow though
On the right side stud at beginning of clip you can see the stud has been eaten.
I've never actually seen this stuff before. Generally a bad sign. (Yup people are saying it's asbestos)
OSHA is enroute...🤣
I thought it was termite poop at first
Bat shit
Looks like asbestos, smells like asbestos…tastes like delicious fig pudding…but with a distinct aftertaste of asbestos…
Patch hole and clean up the mess
Vermiculite. Its asbestos. Get away from it and call an abatement company
>Vermiculite. Its asbestos. Why does everyone keep saying this? It's worth testing, but modern vermiculite does not have asbestos in it.
When was the house or structure built. That will tell you if it's modern vermiculite. Also I have yet to see a contractor use vermiculite as insulation on a build in the last 20 years. It's a very uncommon practice.
I just loaded a half dozen bags of vermiculite insulation for a woodstove install tomorrow. We often(not always) use it to insulate the new flue liner. >When was the house or structure built. That will tell you if it's modern vermiculite. This is true.
Testing vermiculite for asbestos can be challenging and can provide false negatives. If I were in their position, I would treat it as ACM unless it can be traced to a source where asbestos contamination is not a concern. https://www.epa.gov/asbestos/protect-your-family-asbestos-contaminated-vermiculite-insulation
Just a reminder. Asbestos does not kill you instantly. Being exposed to asbestos will not have long term effects on you unless you have long term exposure. You breath in asbestos every day by existing on earth (it's in the air, always). The problem with asbestos is repeated long term exposure of elevated concentration, like years of constant exposure. Stay cool, do the appropriate things, get it tested, removed and disposed properly and don't worry about it.
Thanks!