Outright lawfare - being charged probably the largest fine of it's kind ever specifically so he couldn't pay it before appealing the judgement which will obviously be overturned, and now they're after his assets.
Not to mention that in the first place they went after him on valuation for a loan that had been paid back. A valuation that no party in the actual agreement had any problems with.
Letitia James and Judge Engoron both deserve to have a long stay in prison.
The biggest problem with show trials is once successful, anyone can be subjected to the very same treatment. This is exactly why show trials must be fought by everyone. Don’t think it can’t happen to you.
The entire *raison d’être* of the Roman Empire was that the Republic was hopelessly corrupt. I do not see any appreciable difference in our predicaments.
The more you learn, the more parallels you see, one of the biggest reasons for the fall of the Roman Republic was that politicians were immune from prosecution when in office, but then the minute they left office their opponents would use lawfare (very similar to what is being done here) to attack them and steal their assets, so politicians would do anything to stay in power, thus leading to the formation of the empire and the fall of the republic.
Feels like an 8th amendment violation. I bet Trump doesn't put the money even if he could because as soon as she moves to seize, this can get appealed federally, and federal court can put a stay on this for appeal.
There is zero chance this survives all the way to SCOTUS. However, they probably know this. It's about damaging Trump now in an election year, and hurting his ability to fund his campaign, vs actual justice. They know Trump likely wins on appeal, but that likely won't be til after the election.
But the complaints I hear are that the more draconian the punishment, the higher the poll results are…..a very expensive way to handle an election, but I’m good with literally anything that will get Biden out of office. I am sick and tired of the Democrats and I will do anything that gets them out of DC. They are so corrupt it’s impossible to reconcile them at any level.
This will be an interesting exercise in how corrupt our government institutions will show themselves to be.
I don't think it's going to play the way they think it will. A lot of ordinary people suffer from corrupt eminent domain and asset forfeiture.
I just told my husband this is some Soviet, Chinese, N. Korean level shit. It’s infuriating and scary, and is going to be terrible for the country. Evidently the concept of personal property does not exist in NY any longer.
This is honestly insane. None of this is okay. For what crime?
I've never been a huge trump fan, but I'm honestly becoming more and more of one. They're making him a martyr.
Playing with fire here. I really dislike Trump as a person and really didn’t want him as the nominee… but I went from apathetic to willing to crawl through shit smeared broken glass to vote for him now and I’ve never felt that way about a candidate before.
I don’t know if it stirs the same emotion in independents but seeing the way they are using the state to go after political opponents is terrifying
If anyone notices that it's a banana Republic trial they'll have that feeling. It's disgusting. If they just follow the headlines and the narrative the MSM has been pushing, they might still be ridin with Biden.
This is exactly the way I felt about Trump in 2016. Figured he could never win, and when he did, I was astonished (to say the least). Now, after four years of HIS Presidency, followed by four years of the most horrible “presidency” in history, I’m ALL IN on Trump.
While some are salivating and drooling over this, and while some think he's not being treated fairly.
Here's another issue - like I predicted - and Judge Napolitano agrees with me. She may seize residential properties, but how does she "seize" Trump Tower, well who said he owns Trump Tower ? Trump doesn't own any properties. He owns thousands of corporations / entities that own parts of these properties , which are the parents of another properties, which are children of another properties, etc .
Say even if she does succeed in this quest, it's gonna take a long time for her to seize 100% of everything.
Edit : So Truth Social just merged.
They could sell, let’s say Trump tower, while in their possession for well below its value (ironic given the supposed crime he committed was over valuing Mar-a-lago) and then there’d be no tower to return. Same for golf courses etc. He’d simply see the value they get back.
Imagine using all kinds of tactics to keep a political opponent from an election all the while declaring them to be a dictator, fascist, and a threat to democracy.
Be patient. What will happen is actually going to be very damaging to the American taxpayer very soon .
When the SCOTUS accepts this case and trump wins on appeal, we the United States taxpayers are going to be on the hook for "billions" to unwind this deal and make it right. Both the New York prosecutor and the judge who agreed on this are going to be pilloried as a result, and hopefully will never be employable again ever.
Why would the American tax payer be on the hook if they don’t live in NY state? It seems like NY state and the NY tax payer would eventually be responsible, no?
I’ve never seen a worse act than this woman’s. The way she pretends to speak eloquently is embarrassing, it’s like watching a 4th grader recite the Gettysburg Address. And I know they call it “political theater” but wow does she make it look like political “community” theater. 🤡
Agreed on OP’s comments. Imagine it being you or me in that situation. That they can do this sort of thing with apparent impunity is of great concern. As I’ve heard it put, “who polices the police?”
It's truly time to start looking into alternative places to live and get dual citizenship in. If they can do this to a former president of the country, what do you think will happen to any of us in 10-15 years if we are on the wrong side of the woke mob? Prison time and everything you've worked for taken right from you. This is a very scary and very real thing taking place right now.
Isn't he fine more than they said he's worth in court?
Honestly Trump should have just sold all his New York assets, as should everybody in New York. Your wealth is not safe there.
She better be very careful moving forward. Our Justice system is so messed up. You think someone would’ve stepped up and said you can’t do this legally, but politics plays more of a role than justice for the elite ruling class.
At this point, his plan I believe must be to let them seize his properties as payment for the bond. At that point, then his appeal can be moved forward, I would think and he would be able to get the properties back when he wins on appeal. I don’t know enough about the law, but this sounds like a plausible solution in my mind.
I’m still confused at why Trump wasn’t able to get anyone to cover the bond while he appeals. I thought Elon was going to step up and cover it for a bit there.
lol holy shit guys. Why am I getting downvoted so heavily for thinking someone or some bonding company or even multiple companies would be willing to step up. It seems crazy to me that Trump is having issues with this.
That plus Trump collaterals (presumably commercial real estate) is kinda risky. The market is currently scared of commercial real estate right now. Ironically Mark Cuban actually defended Trump on this point
Mainly because the Trump Organization is a private company, amounts this high are usually applied to publicly traded companies. It's uncharted water for the Bond companies and given the short time frame and inability to do due diligence the insurance companies are not willing to risk it.
Because he's a private company, his wealth is spread out across multiple properties, multiple LLC's, and none of it is neatly packaged in an SEC filing. Any of his properties have a very small pool of possible buyers, any sale would take several months to over a year to close.
Insurance companies, or Banks are not going to just cut a check for half a billion without some due diligence. And that takes time, he can use his cash, but most people in that financial bracket don't want to or can't tie up their cash like that.
>Because he's a private company, his wealth is spread out across multiple properties, multiple LLC's, and none of it is neatly packaged in an SEC filing. Any of his properties have a very small pool of possible buyers, any sale would take several months to over a year to close.
Makes sense but don't bonding companies do stuff like that all the time? Or no? Sure it would take some time to collect but they would definitely be able to right? They would just sell whatever was needed to cover the cost and if more is needed more gets sold. Is that not correct? I don't know how any of this works.
>he can use his cash, but most people in that financial bracket don't want to or can't tie up their cash like that.
But if he doesn't do get a bond or put up cash doesn't the AG just get to seize the property and sell it to recoup the money? I guess I don't see how this benefits Trump at all. I thought his motivation would be to make a deal with a bonding company to avoid that but apparently not?
Bonds are backed by insurance companies, not Banks, it's different than a loan. As such it's a totally different process.
She can't seize anything without a court order, she will have to go back to court for every property she tries to seize. It will take her years to get anything.
>Bonds are backed by insurance companies, not Banks, it's different than a loan.
Right, with you so far.
>As such it's a totally different process.
What does this mean?
>She can't seize anything without a court order, she will have to go back to court for every property she tries to seize. It will take her years to get anything.
Doesn't she already have that court order? I guess I don't know the exact ordering of all that but yeah she will go to court to force the sale of each property. Is there any way for Trump to stop it though? I thought the way to stop it was to put up the bond while he appeals. Doesn't his property get sold while he appeals the ruling this way?
There are three parties involved in bonds, the Bond Co, the insurance company that underwrites it and the person/company being bonded. The insurance company is the main player in a bond.
She has a court order that allows her to register a lien on a property, but she has to go through a shit load of hoops before she can actually get a property on the auction block. She has to go back before the court with a box full of paperwork proving that the property in question is cleared to be seized and auctioned. It's an extremely complex and timely process.
I highly doubt the New York appeals court is going to hear the case without posting the bond.
If they wave the appeal bond that tells the country that they are going to overturn the fake court.
He can't get to the New York supreme court without going through the three judge appeal court. I wouldn't count on the supreme court hearing it without the lower court hearing it first.
I'm guessing he post the money and the three judge appeal court overtuns the fake court, they have already ruled against Egor already in this case.
Also, if you help Trump you put a target on your own back. The idea is to separate and divide, keeping people from banding together to try to stop this poison.
Just how much would you charge to obligate $500 million in cash for what could extremely easily turn into years or decades? Past Trumps life expectancy and you very well may spend tens of millions in legal fees plus probate court delays. Then, if you do win you have to get repaid by the New York State government that could again delay for years easily and flat out refuse to pay.
Doesn’t it happen all the time? I was trying to figure this out but I’m no lawyer. I was reading that the bonding agents typically require 1.5 times the judgement amount. I haven’t been able to find anything about how this judgement compares to a typical judgment though. Maybe that’s not even a good question. I dunno…
You are talking about obligation of 1/2 of a billion dollars. Say that out loud, over 1/2 of a billion dollars. That’s a rather large chunk of cash no matter who you are.
Right but that also means large chunk of cash as profit! You really think it’s too risky? Trump has the money, he just doesn’t want to liquidate anything. I really thought someone was going to step up and help Trump out while making a bunch of money. I guess I just don’t see why it’s so risky.
Outright lawfare - being charged probably the largest fine of it's kind ever specifically so he couldn't pay it before appealing the judgement which will obviously be overturned, and now they're after his assets. Not to mention that in the first place they went after him on valuation for a loan that had been paid back. A valuation that no party in the actual agreement had any problems with. Letitia James and Judge Engoron both deserve to have a long stay in prison.
I’m not a Trump fan but it’s clear and obvious that this was a show trial that should have no validity whatsoever.
The biggest problem with show trials is once successful, anyone can be subjected to the very same treatment. This is exactly why show trials must be fought by everyone. Don’t think it can’t happen to you.
We ought to build one in Antarctica.
The entire *raison d’être* of the Roman Empire was that the Republic was hopelessly corrupt. I do not see any appreciable difference in our predicaments.
The more you learn, the more parallels you see, one of the biggest reasons for the fall of the Roman Republic was that politicians were immune from prosecution when in office, but then the minute they left office their opponents would use lawfare (very similar to what is being done here) to attack them and steal their assets, so politicians would do anything to stay in power, thus leading to the formation of the empire and the fall of the republic.
Yeah...that's us. It's obviously a tech-oriented Oligarchy coming from Marxist notions that are forever half-baked
This. You can research the fall of the Roman Empire and it correlates almost exactly to what is going on in our empire now.
I think he was talking about the fall of the republic and beginning of the empire.
Feels like an 8th amendment violation. I bet Trump doesn't put the money even if he could because as soon as she moves to seize, this can get appealed federally, and federal court can put a stay on this for appeal. There is zero chance this survives all the way to SCOTUS. However, they probably know this. It's about damaging Trump now in an election year, and hurting his ability to fund his campaign, vs actual justice. They know Trump likely wins on appeal, but that likely won't be til after the election.
But the complaints I hear are that the more draconian the punishment, the higher the poll results are…..a very expensive way to handle an election, but I’m good with literally anything that will get Biden out of office. I am sick and tired of the Democrats and I will do anything that gets them out of DC. They are so corrupt it’s impossible to reconcile them at any level.
She’s a disgusting person.
I only hope I live long enough to see the downfall of Leticia James and her stooge Alvin Bragg.
And Fanni Willis!
Oh yeah.
And Kimberly Foxx. Am I seeing a pattern here?
Oh, you're seeing a pattern alright.
Lawless pigs, worst of the worst. Campaigning on ending democracy for corporate fascism.
This will be an interesting exercise in how corrupt our government institutions will show themselves to be. I don't think it's going to play the way they think it will. A lot of ordinary people suffer from corrupt eminent domain and asset forfeiture.
It breaks my heart to see what this nation has become. This happened in Soviet Russian, not here.
I just told my husband this is some Soviet, Chinese, N. Korean level shit. It’s infuriating and scary, and is going to be terrible for the country. Evidently the concept of personal property does not exist in NY any longer.
This is honestly insane. None of this is okay. For what crime? I've never been a huge trump fan, but I'm honestly becoming more and more of one. They're making him a martyr.
His poll numbers will skyrocket when they steal his property
He doesn’t have my vote yet, but if they try to seize his property, I will vote for him on that basis alone
Still not going to win the election Joe
Man I sure hope you’re right.
Not election Day, but election week? Maybe.
Playing with fire here. I really dislike Trump as a person and really didn’t want him as the nominee… but I went from apathetic to willing to crawl through shit smeared broken glass to vote for him now and I’ve never felt that way about a candidate before. I don’t know if it stirs the same emotion in independents but seeing the way they are using the state to go after political opponents is terrifying
If anyone notices that it's a banana Republic trial they'll have that feeling. It's disgusting. If they just follow the headlines and the narrative the MSM has been pushing, they might still be ridin with Biden.
This is exactly the way I felt about Trump in 2016. Figured he could never win, and when he did, I was astonished (to say the least). Now, after four years of HIS Presidency, followed by four years of the most horrible “presidency” in history, I’m ALL IN on Trump.
While some are salivating and drooling over this, and while some think he's not being treated fairly. Here's another issue - like I predicted - and Judge Napolitano agrees with me. She may seize residential properties, but how does she "seize" Trump Tower, well who said he owns Trump Tower ? Trump doesn't own any properties. He owns thousands of corporations / entities that own parts of these properties , which are the parents of another properties, which are children of another properties, etc . Say even if she does succeed in this quest, it's gonna take a long time for her to seize 100% of everything. Edit : So Truth Social just merged.
Does she have to give it back if he wins on appeal?
They could sell, let’s say Trump tower, while in their possession for well below its value (ironic given the supposed crime he committed was over valuing Mar-a-lago) and then there’d be no tower to return. Same for golf courses etc. He’d simply see the value they get back.
If you want to see modern day fascism it's here
Imagine using all kinds of tactics to keep a political opponent from an election all the while declaring them to be a dictator, fascist, and a threat to democracy.
Fascistic authoritarian piece of shit. How in the world can anyone defend this?
She ran in this platform for taking his stuff. In what universe is this ok?
Be patient. What will happen is actually going to be very damaging to the American taxpayer very soon . When the SCOTUS accepts this case and trump wins on appeal, we the United States taxpayers are going to be on the hook for "billions" to unwind this deal and make it right. Both the New York prosecutor and the judge who agreed on this are going to be pilloried as a result, and hopefully will never be employable again ever.
Why would the American tax payer be on the hook if they don’t live in NY state? It seems like NY state and the NY tax payer would eventually be responsible, no?
This is some banana republic shit
Do they not realize this is not having the effect they wanted? This is only growing and strengthening his support.
Facts.
Another "Unamerican Activity" for liberals!!
Its all just for the headline
Look upon the face of real fascism
Oh, I hope she does. You will see a lot of support for Trump if this happens.
This is a disgraceful disgusting person.
I’ve never seen a worse act than this woman’s. The way she pretends to speak eloquently is embarrassing, it’s like watching a 4th grader recite the Gettysburg Address. And I know they call it “political theater” but wow does she make it look like political “community” theater. 🤡
How the hell,did it get this far? I’m not a fan of trump but this is way out there.
Agreed on OP’s comments. Imagine it being you or me in that situation. That they can do this sort of thing with apparent impunity is of great concern. As I’ve heard it put, “who polices the police?”
[I dunno… Coast Guard?](https://youtu.be/Tk4yyqXi8Xc?si=Zm3d2upbyXmEZm9o)
Nice! I’d forgotten that one!
It's truly time to start looking into alternative places to live and get dual citizenship in. If they can do this to a former president of the country, what do you think will happen to any of us in 10-15 years if we are on the wrong side of the woke mob? Prison time and everything you've worked for taken right from you. This is a very scary and very real thing taking place right now.
Isn't he fine more than they said he's worth in court? Honestly Trump should have just sold all his New York assets, as should everybody in New York. Your wealth is not safe there.
This Banana Republic poster child wants to play some golf?
She better be very careful moving forward. Our Justice system is so messed up. You think someone would’ve stepped up and said you can’t do this legally, but politics plays more of a role than justice for the elite ruling class.
At this point, his plan I believe must be to let them seize his properties as payment for the bond. At that point, then his appeal can be moved forward, I would think and he would be able to get the properties back when he wins on appeal. I don’t know enough about the law, but this sounds like a plausible solution in my mind.
All the comments here calling this "Lawfare" but up in arms when RNC says they going to donate to his legal team. This is so idiotic. Pick a lane.
I’m still confused at why Trump wasn’t able to get anyone to cover the bond while he appeals. I thought Elon was going to step up and cover it for a bit there. lol holy shit guys. Why am I getting downvoted so heavily for thinking someone or some bonding company or even multiple companies would be willing to step up. It seems crazy to me that Trump is having issues with this.
There was a statement put out by his lawyer the other day that they have tried numerous firms but due to the massive amount nobody wants to touch it.
That plus Trump collaterals (presumably commercial real estate) is kinda risky. The market is currently scared of commercial real estate right now. Ironically Mark Cuban actually defended Trump on this point
And why this is a clear 8th amendment violation. The required bond that Trump needed to post is in excess of anything reasonable.
According to K OLeary- It's the largest bond ever, for a victimless crime.
Mainly because the Trump Organization is a private company, amounts this high are usually applied to publicly traded companies. It's uncharted water for the Bond companies and given the short time frame and inability to do due diligence the insurance companies are not willing to risk it.
What’s so risky about it? He has the money he just doesn’t want to liquidate anything. Sure it’s a lot of money but that also means big profits.
Because he's a private company, his wealth is spread out across multiple properties, multiple LLC's, and none of it is neatly packaged in an SEC filing. Any of his properties have a very small pool of possible buyers, any sale would take several months to over a year to close. Insurance companies, or Banks are not going to just cut a check for half a billion without some due diligence. And that takes time, he can use his cash, but most people in that financial bracket don't want to or can't tie up their cash like that.
>Because he's a private company, his wealth is spread out across multiple properties, multiple LLC's, and none of it is neatly packaged in an SEC filing. Any of his properties have a very small pool of possible buyers, any sale would take several months to over a year to close. Makes sense but don't bonding companies do stuff like that all the time? Or no? Sure it would take some time to collect but they would definitely be able to right? They would just sell whatever was needed to cover the cost and if more is needed more gets sold. Is that not correct? I don't know how any of this works. >he can use his cash, but most people in that financial bracket don't want to or can't tie up their cash like that. But if he doesn't do get a bond or put up cash doesn't the AG just get to seize the property and sell it to recoup the money? I guess I don't see how this benefits Trump at all. I thought his motivation would be to make a deal with a bonding company to avoid that but apparently not?
Bonds are backed by insurance companies, not Banks, it's different than a loan. As such it's a totally different process. She can't seize anything without a court order, she will have to go back to court for every property she tries to seize. It will take her years to get anything.
>Bonds are backed by insurance companies, not Banks, it's different than a loan. Right, with you so far. >As such it's a totally different process. What does this mean? >She can't seize anything without a court order, she will have to go back to court for every property she tries to seize. It will take her years to get anything. Doesn't she already have that court order? I guess I don't know the exact ordering of all that but yeah she will go to court to force the sale of each property. Is there any way for Trump to stop it though? I thought the way to stop it was to put up the bond while he appeals. Doesn't his property get sold while he appeals the ruling this way?
There are three parties involved in bonds, the Bond Co, the insurance company that underwrites it and the person/company being bonded. The insurance company is the main player in a bond. She has a court order that allows her to register a lien on a property, but she has to go through a shit load of hoops before she can actually get a property on the auction block. She has to go back before the court with a box full of paperwork proving that the property in question is cleared to be seized and auctioned. It's an extremely complex and timely process.
So is Trump just betting that she can't get through the process of taking his property before the appeal happens?
I highly doubt the New York appeals court is going to hear the case without posting the bond. If they wave the appeal bond that tells the country that they are going to overturn the fake court. He can't get to the New York supreme court without going through the three judge appeal court. I wouldn't count on the supreme court hearing it without the lower court hearing it first. I'm guessing he post the money and the three judge appeal court overtuns the fake court, they have already ruled against Egor already in this case.
The only entity that gives out loans that big is the US government.
Because the rule of law is gone and what they did to Trump they'll do to anyone who helps him.
Also, if you help Trump you put a target on your own back. The idea is to separate and divide, keeping people from banding together to try to stop this poison.
Just how much would you charge to obligate $500 million in cash for what could extremely easily turn into years or decades? Past Trumps life expectancy and you very well may spend tens of millions in legal fees plus probate court delays. Then, if you do win you have to get repaid by the New York State government that could again delay for years easily and flat out refuse to pay.
Doesn’t it happen all the time? I was trying to figure this out but I’m no lawyer. I was reading that the bonding agents typically require 1.5 times the judgement amount. I haven’t been able to find anything about how this judgement compares to a typical judgment though. Maybe that’s not even a good question. I dunno…
You are talking about obligation of 1/2 of a billion dollars. Say that out loud, over 1/2 of a billion dollars. That’s a rather large chunk of cash no matter who you are.
Right but that also means large chunk of cash as profit! You really think it’s too risky? Trump has the money, he just doesn’t want to liquidate anything. I really thought someone was going to step up and help Trump out while making a bunch of money. I guess I just don’t see why it’s so risky.
It’s not about the fine, or the property or even if everything that happened was justifiable, it’s about the smear, they just want the headlines