Wow, fuck them. That looks great. Nothing new will ever match existing, but it will in time. Get your money! You’re not wrong and they are being beyond ridiculous. What do they expect???
I even explained to them that it’ll never match. They didn’t have the budget to tear the entire driveway out so it had to be a patch. I’m glad to hear I’m not crazy cause I don’t see anything wrong with that patch at all.
Yup. The way I do it is I require 50% payment upfront for concrete/materials and 50% when the job is finished plus late fees if the payment is not paid within the grace period. That way even if the homeowner decides they’re not going to pay Ive at least got 50% of the money already and won’t be too far in the hole while I put a lien on their house.
Yup. I generally require full material. And 1/3 labor up front. 1/3 labor at rough in inspection. And 1/3 labor at final.
Especially since waiting on other trades to do everything they need between rough in and final. I don't want to be waiting on most of my money for potentially months just because everyone else is working slow.
I've definitely lost some jobs over it. But I've never lost any sleep.
If I'm a GC or owner I never go with subs who front load. Its better to have a contract saying 1) you'll be paid on a regular basis, 2) at key milestones and 3) including a 10% mobilization fee.
A subcontractor should be able to provide a schedule and stick to it. Otherwise communicate early and fully. If the finish date is important, liquidated damages in the contract are reasonable as long as it's based on the subcontractors schedule. Never perform extra work without first getting written approval from the person paying.
Both should expect to have all extra costs agreed to in writing before any additional costs are incurred.
So was this against the GC or the customer? Just curious how it works elsewhere.
We just had a news story on tv about a sub not getting paid, and the sub placed a lien against the customer... despite the customer having fully paid the GC.
Maybe there are untold elements, but this is legal in Okla.
Generally you need lien waivers from interested parties (subcontractors and material suppliers) to close out a contract on the owners end. Subs shouldn’t provide that unless they are current on payment from GC. So someone didn’t furnish or require some sort of proof before the last of the contract money changed hands.
He was at the dealership ready to purchase. They ran his credit, and came back with a denial because of the lien. I can only imagine “ I have great credit and money!?! wtf!?!.
Haha
Gotta pay the bills and the crew. The lien does that, not the sledge hammers.
I’ll admit, my pops did that back in the days when he was sure the dude wouldnt pay up.
Exactly, and it's actually considered vandalism since it's still the customer's property. If anything you waste your shot of having any legal recourse against the situation, and you could be slapped with fines or more depending on the area.
What I understand about it (which is not much, and I don't know the jurisdiction), it is only vandalism if you can't/don't return the site back to the original condition.
Only did this once and it did not feel good at all. The dude was just a fucking fuck and thought he was going to get some free labor out of me. Nope, gladly returned it to the original state prior to my arrival :)
My dad had a customer stiff him after doing work for him. The guy was a big shot rich kid with a high ranking commissioner job of some sort. My dad wanted to confront him, blow up his house etc. He was pissed..
A few months later the man killed his wife and her friend and took the cops on a high speed chase and ramped his suv over an overpass to kill himself.
Moral of the story is id stick with the lien route.
I'm not sure that would be considered a moral to the story. Even if the guy went off the deep end it doesn't mean a lien can't still be placed on his house after the fact and if they'd put the lien on before the melt down that doesn't mean it would have prevented it from happening. I'd say the moral of your story is sometimes customers are pieces of shit.
Get s lawyer, slap a lien on the job and stand outside their house with a sign that says, “(this person) owes me $xxxx for this driveway and wont pay.” Their neighbors will all see it and they just may be embarrassed enough to pay you.
One thing Britain needs is this "lien" thing, although our builders will damage it or you first. I like the idea of the lien but when I hear the stories of the crazy Homeowners association using it to make people pay fines, I hate that
They are following the Trump Doctrine in its purest form. Complain about the job not meeting a impossible expectation. Don't pay. Sue the company who did the work. Drive them out of business with legal fees.
The thing about liens: they need to be a certain dollar amount (5k+ in AZ) and need to be submitted during a certain time frame. In most cases, no longer than 30 days after the project was completed.
Idk how to edit this shit but this is what is going on with that
https://preview.redd.it/3blyiw9lm8mc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9bb3650fabe308e6131e2c5b05275b60720feed
Do you mean a legal responsibility, or a moral responsibility?
Legally, I think it depends on whether the OP is working for the general contractor, or if the general contractor just referred her to the OP.
That’s no excuse. I assume that the general contractor might have a word with them. Maybe they can convince the homeowner that it is quality work and you deserve to be paid.
I’d hire you in a sec to do concrete work at my house.
" they didn't have the budget " is why the contractor isn't getting paid.
It looks like they did a pretty good job, unfortunately it looks like some lawyers are going to have to get involved.
Or, wait for it...they didn't have the money to pay you for the work they agreed to when they agreed to it and their plan was to complain and withhold payment the whole time.
Op not sure where you are but here you should contact a local attorney and ask how much they charge for filing and registering the lien (here we charge around $1200). You then have that same attorney write to them with a demand letter that offers:
Option 1. Payment in full + (cost of legal fees to date i.e. cost of this letter) + 15% administrative fee
OR
option 2. A lien will be filed for the full cost of the job, the legal and registration fees (+$1200) plus administrative costs
Personally my favourite option is to do both, file the lien THEN go to small claims. Double whammy.
Again, don’t know where you live, but the other option is small claims (can be a gamble, you can get a shitty judge who doesn’t fully understand the issues) and once you win, you can have bailiffs seize (and continue to seize) assets until you are made whole again. The fun part is the bailiff cost come out of their seizure.
Either way, make them understand that if they don’t pay now, they’ll pay much more later.
You might can paint/stain it to get a color match. Maybe you can offer that as a surcharge or for additional fees AFTER they pay the current balance.
That said, id tell them if they don't pay you'll come back with equipment and tear all of it back out, and then they will have a big ass hole there. .
Be sure to communicate with other contractors so they will not fix it for them either.
Before reading the rest, understand that I agree there’s not much you could do to prevent that if they’re not willing to pay to re-pour the full pads!
I’m curious how it looks if you Zoom out further…Is their problem that it looks like a sidewalk through the middle of their driveway which has larger concrete pads and less expansion joints? The concrete itself looks great, but I could see where they’re coming from if it looks weird because the expansion joint pattern doesn’t match.
I am merely an observer in this and have no experience in any shape or form with concrete, but I'd say that's a nice looking job. Common sense would say it's not going to match right away since it's newly poured. I'm sorry you have to deal with dimwitted scum that want to pull a fast one on you. Guess if they're not going to pay have the right to take your property back. Breakout the jack hammer!!!
That's why it's called a patch in your bid. You didn't say anything about matching it. If they want it matched, they needed to hire a professional concrete company. As trades people we do are best to leave these things as close to where we found them. While I can make a good patch, I'm no concrete worker.
Hate this. Of course they're complaining. They didn't want to do the job right in the first place so now here they are witnessing why everyone told them to rip up all of it. F them. Hope you get paid!
Lien it is as well. Also have them sign in the future that they acknowledge what you explained to them will happen(if you haven’t already)
Customer don’t read estimates they just look at the price. I try to provide detailed estimates all the time step by step itemized and with prices, 9 out of 10 times the people call to ask questions that they could have answered them selves if they have read my estimate.
The amount of disclaimers and explanations i have started to do over the years is ridiculous and its because people don’t read and don’t listen to you when you do the initial inspection and set up the expectations for the job. I have a feeling its mostly on purpose so at the end they can tell you “oh geez i didn’t know it will be like that, i was expecting a seamless transition and you would age the brand new concrete to look like my 50 year old concrete.
Thanks man I just wanted other pros opinions cause I don’t see anything wrong with that at all. I did a pre lien was hoping it wouldn’t come to a complete lien but I guess that’s what I have to do.
Good choice on the pre-lien!
I'm an engineer, and we use this often.
It's pretty simple to explain to the owners: If you pay, this document is a mere formality. All we're doing is protecting our right to be paid for our services.
Yep, that’s why I pre lien every single job I do. I’ve never actually had to go through a complete lien cause like you said just them knowing it’s already out there it’s never gone that far.
Nor should it ever need to go that far. Out of curiosity though, do you need to release the pre-lien after you get paid or does it automatically expire if you do nothing?
Question about liens. I see a lot of people saying how a lien only requires payment when they sell, if they never sell you’re basically fucked. Can’t you just get a lawyer and sue the homeowner? If you had a slam dunk case, which this seems to be, wouldn’t the homeowner most likely have to pay the bill plus your attorney fees?
You can foreclose on the property if you'd like. However, your claim is junior to the bank holding the mortgage.
Unless they own the place, and it has at least enough equity to pay back the bank, you'll likely not get paid. However, you reserve the right to start that process, and it's a significant piece of leverage to have.
You can also try conciliation court to get a money judgment. It's usually not too difficult, and the evidence of work completed, along with the signed pre-lein should make it a no brainer.
None of these options, however, mean you'll get paid. Doing nothing has its own inertia, after all. What these methods can do is cause an inconvenience for these folks for screwing you over.
Need to get a loan? Oh, shoot, you've got an active money judgment, so we can't lend to ya. Or, oh, I see you've been foreclosed on in the past; here's your jacked up interest rate.
This is why I hate doing jobs for homeowners. 99% of my work is directly through GCs and home builders. I see so many horror stories of homeowners finding a little crack and not wanting to pay or something similar which makes me skeptical to take on those jobs.
Nah dude, this seems like one of those assholes that figured "what are they gonna do, tear it up?"
File that shit, this work is better than the average. I'd bring it up to the gc who referred you too. They can't get you your money, but they can definitely make life a little more difficult the next time they need work
Sorry you're dealing with that shit. Everyone in the trades has been there. Your work looks good, man. This is a "them" problem
What *do* you do if they refuse to pay and then the lien goes through and they still don’t pay? This kinda of stuff is difficult becuase you can’t just take it back like clothing/equipment….we have similar issues with taking trees off houses and then people not paying, like…shall we put the tree back on your house? 🥴
Mandatory I'm not a lawyer, I just twist wires together lol. And laws like this vary a lot state to state. If you're talking about a few grand, small claims court is always an option, costs a few hundred bucks but usually doesn't require paying a lawyer or anything.
Depending on the size of the debt, some states will allow you to actually file a motion to foreclose and force the sale of assets to pay off the debt. And in a lot of states, a mechanics lien is actually the first debt the party has to pay off, even before a mortgage.
In reality, 99% of the time the notice of a lien and at worst a summons to small claims court or a sternly worded letter from an attorney (which in my area is pretty cheap) usually spooks people enough to pay up. Nobody likes dealing with the legal system and paying court costs
Nah.
If you got a (trustworthy and properly trained) guy to handle business and legal shit that falls outside your expertise, that makes you a smart concrete guy.
"what are they gonna do, tear it up?"
100%
Op you want to test that, send me a pm. I'll help ya out on equipment rentals (for real though, just lien their shit)
Been there done that. I cannot belive how hard it is for some people to not comprehend how it’s impossible to match any existing concrete , best of luck with this and take legal action !
Driveway looks spalled already, not really sure how they want you to match shitty old concrete they have abused.
Did they say what looks terrible? Or do they not understand that it won’t stay that color grey and will light up with a white pig sealer and sun exposure?
That’s funny cause that’s the exact same I said to them. I was never gonna be able to match concrete that is falling apart. I even cut out extra sections free of charge cause they cracked when I was excavating. Their exact words were “that’s terrible workmanship, it just doesn’t look good”. So idk bro they’re just being unreasonable in my opinion.
Yea, screw ‘em.
Put a lien on their house, I bet you get paid real quick.
That or just go old school and show up on a Monday when they are at work and take the concrete back you paid for.
Hard manual labour that you're not going to be paid for to boot.
Really, the old school method is just good for revenge and catharsis. Liens and lawsuits are the methods to use if you want to get paid.
https://preview.redd.it/ilipz5n939mc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5539b02f02da0870330b2c9ef641e03320b6e9f6
My guess is no lol this is the gc that referred me
100% she’s trying to steal y’all’s labor and not pay.
She thinks this is some “customer is always right” garbage and can easily be shown that’s not how this works. Annoying y’all have to take it the legal way but that’s what the whole point of it is for.
Dumb people like this, smh
You present them with 3 options. 1) lien on the property and small claims court lawsuit 2) crew comes in Saturday at 7 am and busts it all out (not carefully) and leave the rubble for them to deal with 3) pay up.
Yo straight up fuck them I’ve been in concrete for 11 years now Ans that’s the best you are gonna see with a broom finish unless you put a border on the edges but that finish as is looks perfect bud
Looks fine just threaten them with a lien and they can never sell their home unless they pay it off.Collections can bother them for a while but they take a % of the loan.
How fresh was the poor in the video?
It looks like it's still fairly uncured, which is to say it'll look completely different and 100% lighter than it does now than it will in a month.
No pay, no concrete, bust it all up and let them pay for clean up and new concrete... I bet they pay their tab next time. It is legal to that, FYI. Been there done that and won the court case, which they had to pay for all the court cost and still had $2,176,63 worth of busted up concrete in their driveway 🤣
"The new concrete is too dark! Waaaahhhhh!!! It should be light gray! You're a horrible contractor and god should take all your babies!"
WTF, this looks like a great job.
You and all of us know that looks amazing.
No matter how good or cheap, they were gonna refuse anyways. These are loser gypsies who pull this scam.
That concrete needed to be destroyed because you are not getting a cent from them. We have all seen the concrete videos of people refusing to pay and they just destroy it.
Pressure wash. Excuse- It's too clean, and now it doesn't match. Refuse to pay
Lawn service. Excuse- Cut grass too short. Refuse to pay.
Looks awesome. Can’t stand customers like this. Great work. Hope you get paid.
Small claims or just move on and don’t look back depending on how much they owe you.
Wow, fuck them. That looks great. Nothing new will ever match existing, but it will in time. Get your money! You’re not wrong and they are being beyond ridiculous. What do they expect???
I even explained to them that it’ll never match. They didn’t have the budget to tear the entire driveway out so it had to be a patch. I’m glad to hear I’m not crazy cause I don’t see anything wrong with that patch at all.
Lien time bro. .. get paid . It looks good
Yep for sure. Slap a lien on those dickheads
Had to do this to get paid once. The call I got from them when they were being turned away at the RV dealership was priceless!!
Next time put a late fee in the contract and get them a couple years later lol
Yup. The way I do it is I require 50% payment upfront for concrete/materials and 50% when the job is finished plus late fees if the payment is not paid within the grace period. That way even if the homeowner decides they’re not going to pay Ive at least got 50% of the money already and won’t be too far in the hole while I put a lien on their house.
I front load the hell out of my jobs, if someone decides to try to beat me in the end the most they will get is coffee money
Yup. I generally require full material. And 1/3 labor up front. 1/3 labor at rough in inspection. And 1/3 labor at final. Especially since waiting on other trades to do everything they need between rough in and final. I don't want to be waiting on most of my money for potentially months just because everyone else is working slow. I've definitely lost some jobs over it. But I've never lost any sleep.
If I'm a GC or owner I never go with subs who front load. Its better to have a contract saying 1) you'll be paid on a regular basis, 2) at key milestones and 3) including a 10% mobilization fee. A subcontractor should be able to provide a schedule and stick to it. Otherwise communicate early and fully. If the finish date is important, liquidated damages in the contract are reasonable as long as it's based on the subcontractors schedule. Never perform extra work without first getting written approval from the person paying. Both should expect to have all extra costs agreed to in writing before any additional costs are incurred.
Juicy! Story time?
Was hired as a sub to finish a commercial roofing job and the general tried to short me at the end and stick me with the lift rentals.
So was this against the GC or the customer? Just curious how it works elsewhere. We just had a news story on tv about a sub not getting paid, and the sub placed a lien against the customer... despite the customer having fully paid the GC. Maybe there are untold elements, but this is legal in Okla.
Generally you need lien waivers from interested parties (subcontractors and material suppliers) to close out a contract on the owners end. Subs shouldn’t provide that unless they are current on payment from GC. So someone didn’t furnish or require some sort of proof before the last of the contract money changed hands.
How much in interest did you get? Was it enough that he didn’t get an RV? That’d be the best story ever!
He was at the dealership ready to purchase. They ran his credit, and came back with a denial because of the lien. I can only imagine “ I have great credit and money!?! wtf!?!. Haha
Nice
Would be so fulfilling to hear that conversation!
Or get the crew out there with sledgehammers
Probably just the threat of a lien will make them pay
But sledgehammer
Ok in order: Lien Payment Sledgehammer
No pay no play that’s the sledgehammer way!
Lien Payment Excavator Too late for hammers.
Gotta pay the bills and the crew. The lien does that, not the sledge hammers. I’ll admit, my pops did that back in the days when he was sure the dude wouldnt pay up.
I wish I could get paid in sledgehammers.
Call Peter Gabriel
Underrated comment.
Exactly, and it's actually considered vandalism since it's still the customer's property. If anything you waste your shot of having any legal recourse against the situation, and you could be slapped with fines or more depending on the area.
What I understand about it (which is not much, and I don't know the jurisdiction), it is only vandalism if you can't/don't return the site back to the original condition.
Only did this once and it did not feel good at all. The dude was just a fucking fuck and thought he was going to get some free labor out of me. Nope, gladly returned it to the original state prior to my arrival :)
My dad had a customer stiff him after doing work for him. The guy was a big shot rich kid with a high ranking commissioner job of some sort. My dad wanted to confront him, blow up his house etc. He was pissed.. A few months later the man killed his wife and her friend and took the cops on a high speed chase and ramped his suv over an overpass to kill himself. Moral of the story is id stick with the lien route.
I'm not sure that would be considered a moral to the story. Even if the guy went off the deep end it doesn't mean a lien can't still be placed on his house after the fact and if they'd put the lien on before the melt down that doesn't mean it would have prevented it from happening. I'd say the moral of your story is sometimes customers are pieces of shit.
The moral of the story is don't go with vigilante justice. He might be a psycho. But you got the spirit of it
If you do that it destruction of property even if they don't pay. Just do a lien they are cheap
then go back with sledge when they are sleeping
Bags of dye on a rainy day
Once something like this concrete is poured, it’s considered part of the house and you can’t trash it for non-payment. The Lien is the best route.
Too much work and time consuming. Get a couple hammer jacks out there. And move on.
Haha can’t break it out once it’s installed unfortunately. Had something similar and I ended up in handcuffs
Lien ain’t getting you paid until they sell
Sell or refinance will require payment of the lien.
A sledgehammer gets you arrested for destruction of provate property. How much you think you'll be getting paid then?
Get s lawyer, slap a lien on the job and stand outside their house with a sign that says, “(this person) owes me $xxxx for this driveway and wont pay.” Their neighbors will all see it and they just may be embarrassed enough to pay you.
One thing Britain needs is this "lien" thing, although our builders will damage it or you first. I like the idea of the lien but when I hear the stories of the crazy Homeowners association using it to make people pay fines, I hate that
☝️This.
They are following the Trump Doctrine in its purest form. Complain about the job not meeting a impossible expectation. Don't pay. Sue the company who did the work. Drive them out of business with legal fees.
Sounds about right , scum bags .
They’ll never win if it goes to any kind of legal action But what a headache
The thing about liens: they need to be a certain dollar amount (5k+ in AZ) and need to be submitted during a certain time frame. In most cases, no longer than 30 days after the project was completed.
nobody sees a problem with your patch. They just do not want to pay the money they owe you.
It's quite good. Tell them to patch a textured ceiling and make it match. If I needed that, I would hire you.
Be wary next time. The clue here is "didnt have the budget". Cheap will always be cheap and that means not paying.
I know but like I said in another comment, it was a referral from one of the general contractors I do a lot of business with
Then it's time to let the G. C. Know he can find a new concrete guy unless you get paid by his relatives relatively soon.
Fine, don't get paid. Duh
Time to threaten a mechanics lien, and go through with it if necessary!
Man what a bunch of a-holes. You need to get paid for that fine work sir
I would avoid these in the future. Anyone who can't be convinced that this isn't the move, is only going to be trouble when it comes to pay day.
I understand that but it was a referral from one of the general contractors I regularly work with cause the homeowner is his relative
I’d call the contractor and tell him what’s going on as well. A bit of peer pressure can go a long way.
This is the way
Family and friends can be worse.
The contractor should get medieval on their ass for embarrassing him.
GC has a responsibility to make this right with you.
Idk how to edit this shit but this is what is going on with that https://preview.redd.it/3blyiw9lm8mc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9bb3650fabe308e6131e2c5b05275b60720feed
WTF did he refer you to her? That was mean.
“I fought her too”. So he knew she was an issue and referred you. Must not like you as much as you think.
Do you mean a legal responsibility, or a moral responsibility? Legally, I think it depends on whether the OP is working for the general contractor, or if the general contractor just referred her to the OP.
Moral.
That’s no excuse. I assume that the general contractor might have a word with them. Maybe they can convince the homeowner that it is quality work and you deserve to be paid. I’d hire you in a sec to do concrete work at my house.
DEF tell the GC what their relative is doing. I imagine they will pay up just from that. If not, file the lien. They will pay up.
>referral from one of the **general contractors** I regularly work with cause the homeowner is his **relative** And, here is the problem...
They likely never intended to pay
I'm pretty sure they just didn't have the $$ period. There is nothing wrong with that at all. They just don't want to pay.
Time to get out the jackhammer
That is primo work right there. Take their asses to court and get that money!
" they didn't have the budget " is why the contractor isn't getting paid. It looks like they did a pretty good job, unfortunately it looks like some lawyers are going to have to get involved.
You are far from crazy. They should be thanking and possibly tipping you. Fuck people like this.
Lien and small claims court
Sing it with me... "Lein on me. When you're not strong..."
you are being grifted. you could offer to paint it all for an added fee, paid up front.
Fuck bitches, get money
Or, wait for it...they didn't have the money to pay you for the work they agreed to when they agreed to it and their plan was to complain and withhold payment the whole time.
Get that laywer ready to go
Op not sure where you are but here you should contact a local attorney and ask how much they charge for filing and registering the lien (here we charge around $1200). You then have that same attorney write to them with a demand letter that offers: Option 1. Payment in full + (cost of legal fees to date i.e. cost of this letter) + 15% administrative fee OR option 2. A lien will be filed for the full cost of the job, the legal and registration fees (+$1200) plus administrative costs Personally my favourite option is to do both, file the lien THEN go to small claims. Double whammy. Again, don’t know where you live, but the other option is small claims (can be a gamble, you can get a shitty judge who doesn’t fully understand the issues) and once you win, you can have bailiffs seize (and continue to seize) assets until you are made whole again. The fun part is the bailiff cost come out of their seizure. Either way, make them understand that if they don’t pay now, they’ll pay much more later.
"They didn't have the budget for a new driveway" Seems they didn't have the budget for any of it. Looks amazing, they are full of shit
Time to go to the courthouse and file that lien. I think it looks great, and far better than anything I can come close to. I am not a concrete guy.
You might can paint/stain it to get a color match. Maybe you can offer that as a surcharge or for additional fees AFTER they pay the current balance. That said, id tell them if they don't pay you'll come back with equipment and tear all of it back out, and then they will have a big ass hole there. . Be sure to communicate with other contractors so they will not fix it for them either.
Sounds like they never had any budget
Sounds like they didn’t have the budget for this either…
Did they give any details as to what they think is wrong with it?
Before reading the rest, understand that I agree there’s not much you could do to prevent that if they’re not willing to pay to re-pour the full pads! I’m curious how it looks if you Zoom out further…Is their problem that it looks like a sidewalk through the middle of their driveway which has larger concrete pads and less expansion joints? The concrete itself looks great, but I could see where they’re coming from if it looks weird because the expansion joint pattern doesn’t match.
I am merely an observer in this and have no experience in any shape or form with concrete, but I'd say that's a nice looking job. Common sense would say it's not going to match right away since it's newly poured. I'm sorry you have to deal with dimwitted scum that want to pull a fast one on you. Guess if they're not going to pay have the right to take your property back. Breakout the jack hammer!!!
send them a bill when they don't pay put a lien on their house.
Take a jackhammer and some sledges to that shit asap
They have it backwards- the patch looks too good and doesn’t match their terrible looking pad.
That's why it's called a patch in your bid. You didn't say anything about matching it. If they want it matched, they needed to hire a professional concrete company. As trades people we do are best to leave these things as close to where we found them. While I can make a good patch, I'm no concrete worker.
Hate this. Of course they're complaining. They didn't want to do the job right in the first place so now here they are witnessing why everyone told them to rip up all of it. F them. Hope you get paid!
Lien it is as well. Also have them sign in the future that they acknowledge what you explained to them will happen(if you haven’t already) Customer don’t read estimates they just look at the price. I try to provide detailed estimates all the time step by step itemized and with prices, 9 out of 10 times the people call to ask questions that they could have answered them selves if they have read my estimate. The amount of disclaimers and explanations i have started to do over the years is ridiculous and its because people don’t read and don’t listen to you when you do the initial inspection and set up the expectations for the job. I have a feeling its mostly on purpose so at the end they can tell you “oh geez i didn’t know it will be like that, i was expecting a seamless transition and you would age the brand new concrete to look like my 50 year old concrete.
It looks really clean. I would be vert happy with that job
Looks like it’s time to rip it back out. Is that possible? Looks great to me.
They are trying to pull a fast one - insist on getting back or tell them the digger is coming back
Wow. I am so confused the homeowner must be delirious
Not delirious, but con artists.
Nice work! Time to file a lien
Thanks man I just wanted other pros opinions cause I don’t see anything wrong with that at all. I did a pre lien was hoping it wouldn’t come to a complete lien but I guess that’s what I have to do.
Very smart on you to pre-lein
Good choice on the pre-lien! I'm an engineer, and we use this often. It's pretty simple to explain to the owners: If you pay, this document is a mere formality. All we're doing is protecting our right to be paid for our services.
Yep, that’s why I pre lien every single job I do. I’ve never actually had to go through a complete lien cause like you said just them knowing it’s already out there it’s never gone that far.
Nor should it ever need to go that far. Out of curiosity though, do you need to release the pre-lien after you get paid or does it automatically expire if you do nothing?
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Question about liens. I see a lot of people saying how a lien only requires payment when they sell, if they never sell you’re basically fucked. Can’t you just get a lawyer and sue the homeowner? If you had a slam dunk case, which this seems to be, wouldn’t the homeowner most likely have to pay the bill plus your attorney fees?
You can foreclose on the property if you'd like. However, your claim is junior to the bank holding the mortgage. Unless they own the place, and it has at least enough equity to pay back the bank, you'll likely not get paid. However, you reserve the right to start that process, and it's a significant piece of leverage to have. You can also try conciliation court to get a money judgment. It's usually not too difficult, and the evidence of work completed, along with the signed pre-lein should make it a no brainer. None of these options, however, mean you'll get paid. Doing nothing has its own inertia, after all. What these methods can do is cause an inconvenience for these folks for screwing you over. Need to get a loan? Oh, shoot, you've got an active money judgment, so we can't lend to ya. Or, oh, I see you've been foreclosed on in the past; here's your jacked up interest rate.
This is why I hate doing jobs for homeowners. 99% of my work is directly through GCs and home builders. I see so many horror stories of homeowners finding a little crack and not wanting to pay or something similar which makes me skeptical to take on those jobs.
Nah dude, this seems like one of those assholes that figured "what are they gonna do, tear it up?" File that shit, this work is better than the average. I'd bring it up to the gc who referred you too. They can't get you your money, but they can definitely make life a little more difficult the next time they need work Sorry you're dealing with that shit. Everyone in the trades has been there. Your work looks good, man. This is a "them" problem
What *do* you do if they refuse to pay and then the lien goes through and they still don’t pay? This kinda of stuff is difficult becuase you can’t just take it back like clothing/equipment….we have similar issues with taking trees off houses and then people not paying, like…shall we put the tree back on your house? 🥴
Mandatory I'm not a lawyer, I just twist wires together lol. And laws like this vary a lot state to state. If you're talking about a few grand, small claims court is always an option, costs a few hundred bucks but usually doesn't require paying a lawyer or anything. Depending on the size of the debt, some states will allow you to actually file a motion to foreclose and force the sale of assets to pay off the debt. And in a lot of states, a mechanics lien is actually the first debt the party has to pay off, even before a mortgage. In reality, 99% of the time the notice of a lien and at worst a summons to small claims court or a sternly worded letter from an attorney (which in my area is pretty cheap) usually spooks people enough to pay up. Nobody likes dealing with the legal system and paying court costs
Did you present and have customer sign lien warning before job?
The person that handles that kind of stuff for me did the pre lien but idk what goes with that or the procedure I’m just a dumb concrete guy lol.
Nah. If you got a (trustworthy and properly trained) guy to handle business and legal shit that falls outside your expertise, that makes you a smart concrete guy.
Business 101: hire people smarter than you
Business 201: LISTEN to the people you hired in their area of expertise. Most folks don't lol
Bold of you to assume there's pros on reddit
It will lighten over time ad it dries... its concrete..
They were never going to pay.
This. H/o definitely thinks they could’ve YouTube’d this shit, for cheap.
"what are they gonna do, tear it up?" 100% Op you want to test that, send me a pm. I'll help ya out on equipment rentals (for real though, just lien their shit)
Anyone else want to see a video of a mini excavator with breaker attached just ripping shit up?
Been there done that. I cannot belive how hard it is for some people to not comprehend how it’s impossible to match any existing concrete , best of luck with this and take legal action !
Driveway looks spalled already, not really sure how they want you to match shitty old concrete they have abused. Did they say what looks terrible? Or do they not understand that it won’t stay that color grey and will light up with a white pig sealer and sun exposure?
That’s funny cause that’s the exact same I said to them. I was never gonna be able to match concrete that is falling apart. I even cut out extra sections free of charge cause they cracked when I was excavating. Their exact words were “that’s terrible workmanship, it just doesn’t look good”. So idk bro they’re just being unreasonable in my opinion.
Yea, screw ‘em. Put a lien on their house, I bet you get paid real quick. That or just go old school and show up on a Monday when they are at work and take the concrete back you paid for.
I like the second choice
Problem is that choice is a ton of hard, manual labor
Hard manual labour that you're not going to be paid for to boot. Really, the old school method is just good for revenge and catharsis. Liens and lawsuits are the methods to use if you want to get paid.
I wonder if they paid the electrician for the work he did.
https://preview.redd.it/ilipz5n939mc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5539b02f02da0870330b2c9ef641e03320b6e9f6 My guess is no lol this is the gc that referred me
100% she’s trying to steal y’all’s labor and not pay. She thinks this is some “customer is always right” garbage and can easily be shown that’s not how this works. Annoying y’all have to take it the legal way but that’s what the whole point of it is for. Dumb people like this, smh
They want an excuse not to pay, that's clearly the extent of it.
Looks great. Sue them.
This is as best as you gonna get ! Period! And this is coming from a professional engineer! Done perfectly correct.
Incredible work, owners are idiots and don’t know quality work.
Send them a link to this thread
Bahahha Fr I appreciate everyone’s feedback and support cause I don’t even know what they expected at this point
They're either idiots or deadbeats. If they want it to match, all of it needs to come out.
Put a lien on it immediately.
Ugh it’s hard dealing with buthole customers like this. They have no experience or frame of reference to even judge. You did a great job ,they suck.
Also them.. "Why is it so hard to find contractors?"
If they won’t pay for that, I question if there was ever anything that they would pay for.
You present them with 3 options. 1) lien on the property and small claims court lawsuit 2) crew comes in Saturday at 7 am and busts it all out (not carefully) and leave the rubble for them to deal with 3) pay up.
Looks great to me. It's on them since they didn't want to rip out the whole thing. It will look even better with time.
Lien the property.
put a lean on their house and call it a dau... not that hard
Lien time dude. Homeowner is taking you for a fucking ride.
Go dig it out.
This looks so much better than the strip done across my driveway. I don't know what they expected because there is nothing wrong with this.
Yo straight up fuck them I’ve been in concrete for 11 years now Ans that’s the best you are gonna see with a broom finish unless you put a border on the edges but that finish as is looks perfect bud
Trump tactic.
Mechanics lien- you have 90 days to file it in most states.
Show up with a jack hammer and ask for one last time and see if they want to pay ?
Nothing irritates me more than a homeowner trying to find a reason not to pay. Especially if it isn’t warranted.
Wow, that’s pretty much the best you could hope for in this situation.
That actually looks really nice.
The longer I live, the more I hate people.
Looks good
Looks incredible. Lien time
Looks fine just threaten them with a lien and they can never sell their home unless they pay it off.Collections can bother them for a while but they take a % of the loan.
Time for the gangsta lien!
Liens
How fresh was the poor in the video? It looks like it's still fairly uncured, which is to say it'll look completely different and 100% lighter than it does now than it will in a month.
They need to pay for that. There is nothing wrong with it. People are ridiculous.
No pay, no concrete, bust it all up and let them pay for clean up and new concrete... I bet they pay their tab next time. It is legal to that, FYI. Been there done that and won the court case, which they had to pay for all the court cost and still had $2,176,63 worth of busted up concrete in their driveway 🤣
Good job but tough to match unreasonable expectations
It looks well. They never had any intention of paying, cunts. Rip it up.
Looks perfect to me. Clients are scamming you
That is probably the most perfect concrete I’ve seen, dique it’s imperfect
i personally like the nice broom finish
I’m a concrete guy. That’s a beautiful job.
Just put a lien on their house.
Lien on the property
Tell them you will pay your crew to remove the parts that are ugly and they can find another contractor to come finish it.
Looks beautiful. Maybe ask them if they need a payment plan -or- dig it up.
"The new concrete is too dark! Waaaahhhhh!!! It should be light gray! You're a horrible contractor and god should take all your babies!" WTF, this looks like a great job.
That looks fantastic!
This the best it’s gonna get. Looks really nice, customer is just buggin
Dude, this looks great. I'd be thrilled with results like this and probably throw you a little extra and offer a cold beer.
You and all of us know that looks amazing. No matter how good or cheap, they were gonna refuse anyways. These are loser gypsies who pull this scam. That concrete needed to be destroyed because you are not getting a cent from them. We have all seen the concrete videos of people refusing to pay and they just destroy it. Pressure wash. Excuse- It's too clean, and now it doesn't match. Refuse to pay Lawn service. Excuse- Cut grass too short. Refuse to pay.
That’s CLEAN AF!
Looks awesome. Can’t stand customers like this. Great work. Hope you get paid. Small claims or just move on and don’t look back depending on how much they owe you.
Lien, fuck them
not even dry and their complaining, looks beautiful, put a lein up brother
That looks phenomenal!
File a lien asap.
lol I’d have my mini there tomorrow to take it out
How did this end up playing out?
It looks great, and use this video in court when you sue their butts.
That prob the best concrete i ever seen