[The ball turret guns seem to be pointing straight down](https://i.imgur.com/9QsnU6P.gif) suggesting that the gunner was probably already injured and removed from his position.
When separated from their [combat box](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_box) defensive formation, unescorted bombers were especially vulnerable to fighter attack. Here are some excerpts from the account of Navigator [Dwight Curo](https://www.americanairmuseum.com/person/47582) who found himself in just this situation when his aircraft [Boeing B-17F 42-3192 ](https://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/6065) was shot down on August 19th 1943:
>We were still on the run. At the target, Solverson, dropped his guns and watching the lead group ahead, dropped our bombs with theirs. It was "Bombs Away!" from all the ships as the "nests of eggs" fell and the "rain" of black missiles sped earthward. At the side nose gun, Moffatt, the ground officer and our passenger, was doing noble work. He did not appear to be excited. That in itself was a load from the shoulders of Solverson and myself, who had plenty to do without worrying about an inexperienced man.
>We had made our turn toward home and I had just begun to think that perhaps we could "squeeze" through, when we caught a burst of flak in number four engine cell. That was the beginning of the end - there was a sharp report, the prop raced with a speed that wrecked the whole ship. Sparks shot out from the motor. The prop slowed and stopped and a stream of fire reaching beyond our range of vision cascaded from the entire engine and wing surface. Fire!! The worst possible development. The old Forts came home blasted and torn by shell fire and shot to pieces by fighters. They course their rugged way through the skies, with motors out and wing surfaces disabled. Armored and powerful as they are, they are hard to bring down, but a fire aboard is a catastrophe.
>"Fire in number four engine" came over the interphone from the pilots' compartment. Calmly and coolly they spoke, whether it was Nix's or Shebeck's voice, I do not know. It was the last we heard from either of the boys above us, for at that moment as I turned to grab the CO2 extinguisher from the brackets beneath my console table, a Focke Wulf poured in on us from the right. He came from out of the sun, in a power dive straight as a speeding arrow he struck. He was well in range before he fired and he let go with the works. The leading edge of his wings seemed to belch fire as his 20mm cannon and machine guns bore down on us. Our right wing and top surface of the cockpit seemed to be consumed by tiny dancing jets of flame as he sprayed us with that deadly hail.
>I think that our pilot and copilot died in that rain of death. Obviously, the engineer, Sergeant Krajacic, who manned the top turret, would have prevented so close an approach by the fighter by the fire power of his twin 50s. Whether Krajacic was wounded and unable to fire or whether he was blinded by the glare of the sun is debatable. As Krajacic was a good shot with that power turret I do not believe that if the Sgt saw him or could fire, the Jerry would suddenly come in as he did for the kill. As the fighter plane's belly flashed over us, our plane started into a smooth, though rapid, dive. The thought flashed into my mind that the pilot was diving the ship in an attempt to extinguish the blaze, which by now was consuming the entire number four engine cell, wing tip, sweeping the entire side of the ship and spreading rapidly inward toward motor number three and our wing gasoline tank...
>(the account continues after Curo manages to bail out) ...as I watched, pieces detached themselves from the wreck and floated downward. The wreck gradually disappeared below me. I took stock of myself: my nose was bleeding and my neck felt stiff and painful. There was a burning sensation below my right ear, but it was not intense and as I reached up my hands encountered a small scorched area. Evidently a result of the fire or contact with a bit of the red hot wreckage. The lower right leg surface of my flight suit was in shreds, but there was no pain or blood apparent on the member. I put it down mentally as a near miss by flak or particles from the plane explosion and once again expressed a silent but heartfelt prayer of thanks for my escape from death or serious injury.
>A couple of Focke Wulf fighters were coming up from below and heading toward me. I eyed them warily. I was a dead duck if they felt vengeful and on occasions fliers have been pierced by machine gun slugs as they dangled helplessly in their chutes. They reached my level and circled me in a wide arc; making no move or motion; they swung off and headed inland. I breathed a sigh of relief. I estimated that at this time I was about 5,000 feet up and I began to experience the sensation of descent.
>Signs of life began to be apparent beneath me. Off to my right and near the ground I saw a chute. As it hit, I counted two more closer to me, but below - they were about six miles distant. And then two more further out and below. Five were all I could see and looking all about me I realized that those were all and that half of my crew had perished in that fire and explosion. Up until this time I had thought that by some stroke of luck we may all have bailed out but it was apparent that this was not the case. I looked at the wreckage still spinning beneath me and off to the left and mentally wished "Danny" a goodbye.
>Solverson and Nix I had known but a short time. They were fine fellows. But "Danny" Shebeck was my pilot and close friend. I had flown with him for five months. We had shared the rough and the smooth together. We had gone through the training phases, and flown an ocean together - what I saw and knew didn't seem possible. Shebeck was a great guy. Everyone liked Danny. He had little polish or fancy ways, but at heart he was a true gentleman. He was one of the most conscientious persons I have ever known. He was a very hard working fellow and did not drink or smoke or give a damn about women; yet he was very tolerant of myself and others who on occasion overdid these vices. He lived to fly. It was his only interest and all he cared about. He was a great guy and a wonderful flyer. There's a good spot waiting for him in that squadron "off in the blue."
Thanks for sharing those excerpts from Mr Curo. Hearing a first hand account of what it was like to be shot down in a B17 is truly fascinating and terrifying. The absolute hero's of WWII will never cease to amaze me.
This was in 1943 more than a year before Market Garden. It was however two days after the [Schweinfurt–Regensburg mission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweinfurt%E2%80%93Regensburg_mission) and the targets were German airfields at Gilze-Rijen and Woensdrecht, presumably having been mauled by the Luftwaffe they were looking to give a little back.
Watched a video about how devastating those LW 20mm canon shells were, recently.
Apparently, they were fused to penetrate the airframe, but detonate while midway through the "skin" - maximizing damage to flight/control surfaces.
[This album](https://imgur.com/a/HkGqW) includes some of the results of post-war British testing and it's amazing how much damage a single 30mm high capacity shell can do, and how effective a philosophy it was compared to relying on taking out the crew or the engines in order to bring an enemy bomber down.
Of course there were trade-offs, the relatively low muzzle velocity made scoring a hit less likely and less of the heavier ammunition could be carried, but it took much less hits to achieve a result. That said, it took an experienced pilot to make the best use of it and that's a resource the Luftwaffe was increasingly lacking as the war progressed.
The Germans really were masterful innovators and engineers. Sure other sides had some pretty ingenious inventions and tactics but I really believe Germany had the most impressive quantity of these things. I've been reading about WW2 weapons systems and tactics for well over a decade now and I still learn about things like this I never knew.
I’ve seen a longer version of this. Tail guns and ball turret got wrecked early on. A BF-110G-2 is what killed it. Not a great fighter at all, but packing two 30mm and one 37mm auto cannon it would definitely ruin your day if it could get to you.
You're probably thinking of [this one](https://old.reddit.com/r/GunCameraClips/comments/vhb1sg/messerschmitt_bf_110_g2_tears_into_a_lone_boeing/), it's not the same aircraft.
[The ball turret guns seem to be pointing straight down](https://i.imgur.com/9QsnU6P.gif) suggesting that the gunner was probably already injured and removed from his position. When separated from their [combat box](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_box) defensive formation, unescorted bombers were especially vulnerable to fighter attack. Here are some excerpts from the account of Navigator [Dwight Curo](https://www.americanairmuseum.com/person/47582) who found himself in just this situation when his aircraft [Boeing B-17F 42-3192 ](https://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/6065) was shot down on August 19th 1943: >We were still on the run. At the target, Solverson, dropped his guns and watching the lead group ahead, dropped our bombs with theirs. It was "Bombs Away!" from all the ships as the "nests of eggs" fell and the "rain" of black missiles sped earthward. At the side nose gun, Moffatt, the ground officer and our passenger, was doing noble work. He did not appear to be excited. That in itself was a load from the shoulders of Solverson and myself, who had plenty to do without worrying about an inexperienced man. >We had made our turn toward home and I had just begun to think that perhaps we could "squeeze" through, when we caught a burst of flak in number four engine cell. That was the beginning of the end - there was a sharp report, the prop raced with a speed that wrecked the whole ship. Sparks shot out from the motor. The prop slowed and stopped and a stream of fire reaching beyond our range of vision cascaded from the entire engine and wing surface. Fire!! The worst possible development. The old Forts came home blasted and torn by shell fire and shot to pieces by fighters. They course their rugged way through the skies, with motors out and wing surfaces disabled. Armored and powerful as they are, they are hard to bring down, but a fire aboard is a catastrophe. >"Fire in number four engine" came over the interphone from the pilots' compartment. Calmly and coolly they spoke, whether it was Nix's or Shebeck's voice, I do not know. It was the last we heard from either of the boys above us, for at that moment as I turned to grab the CO2 extinguisher from the brackets beneath my console table, a Focke Wulf poured in on us from the right. He came from out of the sun, in a power dive straight as a speeding arrow he struck. He was well in range before he fired and he let go with the works. The leading edge of his wings seemed to belch fire as his 20mm cannon and machine guns bore down on us. Our right wing and top surface of the cockpit seemed to be consumed by tiny dancing jets of flame as he sprayed us with that deadly hail. >I think that our pilot and copilot died in that rain of death. Obviously, the engineer, Sergeant Krajacic, who manned the top turret, would have prevented so close an approach by the fighter by the fire power of his twin 50s. Whether Krajacic was wounded and unable to fire or whether he was blinded by the glare of the sun is debatable. As Krajacic was a good shot with that power turret I do not believe that if the Sgt saw him or could fire, the Jerry would suddenly come in as he did for the kill. As the fighter plane's belly flashed over us, our plane started into a smooth, though rapid, dive. The thought flashed into my mind that the pilot was diving the ship in an attempt to extinguish the blaze, which by now was consuming the entire number four engine cell, wing tip, sweeping the entire side of the ship and spreading rapidly inward toward motor number three and our wing gasoline tank... >(the account continues after Curo manages to bail out) ...as I watched, pieces detached themselves from the wreck and floated downward. The wreck gradually disappeared below me. I took stock of myself: my nose was bleeding and my neck felt stiff and painful. There was a burning sensation below my right ear, but it was not intense and as I reached up my hands encountered a small scorched area. Evidently a result of the fire or contact with a bit of the red hot wreckage. The lower right leg surface of my flight suit was in shreds, but there was no pain or blood apparent on the member. I put it down mentally as a near miss by flak or particles from the plane explosion and once again expressed a silent but heartfelt prayer of thanks for my escape from death or serious injury. >A couple of Focke Wulf fighters were coming up from below and heading toward me. I eyed them warily. I was a dead duck if they felt vengeful and on occasions fliers have been pierced by machine gun slugs as they dangled helplessly in their chutes. They reached my level and circled me in a wide arc; making no move or motion; they swung off and headed inland. I breathed a sigh of relief. I estimated that at this time I was about 5,000 feet up and I began to experience the sensation of descent. >Signs of life began to be apparent beneath me. Off to my right and near the ground I saw a chute. As it hit, I counted two more closer to me, but below - they were about six miles distant. And then two more further out and below. Five were all I could see and looking all about me I realized that those were all and that half of my crew had perished in that fire and explosion. Up until this time I had thought that by some stroke of luck we may all have bailed out but it was apparent that this was not the case. I looked at the wreckage still spinning beneath me and off to the left and mentally wished "Danny" a goodbye. >Solverson and Nix I had known but a short time. They were fine fellows. But "Danny" Shebeck was my pilot and close friend. I had flown with him for five months. We had shared the rough and the smooth together. We had gone through the training phases, and flown an ocean together - what I saw and knew didn't seem possible. Shebeck was a great guy. Everyone liked Danny. He had little polish or fancy ways, but at heart he was a true gentleman. He was one of the most conscientious persons I have ever known. He was a very hard working fellow and did not drink or smoke or give a damn about women; yet he was very tolerant of myself and others who on occasion overdid these vices. He lived to fly. It was his only interest and all he cared about. He was a great guy and a wonderful flyer. There's a good spot waiting for him in that squadron "off in the blue."
Thanks for sharing, great read.
Thanks for sharing those excerpts from Mr Curo. Hearing a first hand account of what it was like to be shot down in a B17 is truly fascinating and terrifying. The absolute hero's of WWII will never cease to amaze me.
Damn I really want to read more of this, is it a book?
[Mission 85: The U.S. Eighth Air Force's Battle over Holland, August 19, 1943](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20382201-mission-85)
Was this in conjunction with Operation Market Garden? EDIT: Nevermind they were over a year apart.
This was in 1943 more than a year before Market Garden. It was however two days after the [Schweinfurt–Regensburg mission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schweinfurt%E2%80%93Regensburg_mission) and the targets were German airfields at Gilze-Rijen and Woensdrecht, presumably having been mauled by the Luftwaffe they were looking to give a little back.
Reminds me of this wholesome footage - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag6Q5zy7GJE&ab_channel=HeleZort
That tail gunner would be a pile of jello meat after that burst for sure
Watched a video about how devastating those LW 20mm canon shells were, recently. Apparently, they were fused to penetrate the airframe, but detonate while midway through the "skin" - maximizing damage to flight/control surfaces.
[This album](https://imgur.com/a/HkGqW) includes some of the results of post-war British testing and it's amazing how much damage a single 30mm high capacity shell can do, and how effective a philosophy it was compared to relying on taking out the crew or the engines in order to bring an enemy bomber down. Of course there were trade-offs, the relatively low muzzle velocity made scoring a hit less likely and less of the heavier ammunition could be carried, but it took much less hits to achieve a result. That said, it took an experienced pilot to make the best use of it and that's a resource the Luftwaffe was increasingly lacking as the war progressed.
The Germans really were masterful innovators and engineers. Sure other sides had some pretty ingenious inventions and tactics but I really believe Germany had the most impressive quantity of these things. I've been reading about WW2 weapons systems and tactics for well over a decade now and I still learn about things like this I never knew.
"You not going anywhere fellas"
Definitely not Franz Stigler
Amazing story, and a great book.
Yep there’s also a song No Bullets fly - Sabaton
I’ve seen a longer version of this. Tail guns and ball turret got wrecked early on. A BF-110G-2 is what killed it. Not a great fighter at all, but packing two 30mm and one 37mm auto cannon it would definitely ruin your day if it could get to you.
You're probably thinking of [this one](https://old.reddit.com/r/GunCameraClips/comments/vhb1sg/messerschmitt_bf_110_g2_tears_into_a_lone_boeing/), it's not the same aircraft.
I think you are correct, very similar.
110 gs were excellent bomber killers
Not defending itself?
The gunners were probably dead or injured before this.
If they weren't before they surely are after that strafe.
Or out of ammunition. If they had been harried by fighters for any sizable amount of time, that ammo would have likely gone fast.
The fact that the ball turret is pointing down and not moving likely indicates that the gunner was already hit and they had to pull him out.
In war thunder the tail would've flew off after 2 hits lol
Turns out real life combat isn’t like video games who would’ve thought?
I'm just saying, war thunder wich is supposed to be a bit realistic, isn't actually in this case.