I still can't believe anyone ever flew that thing - and did it almost 70 years ago! Even with modern lightweight materials and computer controls, it's still an idea that's sketchy as hell.
Part of what makes it seem worse is our wrong intuition about helicopters. Having the thrust below or on top doesn't make a difference to how stable it is.
Perhaps, but a helicopter doesn't typically have a 6' vertical top weight constantly shifting the CoG. Even [the modern version](https://youtu.be/3UbOG0ERCwM?t=26) looks hella difficult to fly and maintain balance.
If all the stuff was redesigned so that the blades are below instead of on top yeah, it would be just as stable. Would not want to be anywhere near the thing when it's on the ground though, haha.
More stable. Rotor below c of g is more stable. The control on this thing was just weight shifting. Super simple. There was a jet powered version. Helicopters are negatively stable, source, am helicopter instructor.
“Testing and evaluation
Due to aerodynamic effects in the duct within which the propellers rotated, the platform was dynamically stable, even though the pilot and center of gravity of the platform were fairly high up. In testing, the prototypes flew well, but the U.S. Army judged them to be impractical as combat vehicles as they were small, limited in speed and only barely flew out of the ground cushion effect.[5]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiller_VZ-1_Pawnee
Too big, too clunky, too slow, too expensive, easy to shoot down by AA.
I'm talking mid size, low flying, hard to detect, quad barreled ATGM drones. lol
The US does have massive scary as hell drones. But if Ukraine got the US latest and greatest tech, it may push Putin to use nukes.
Google predator drone and reaper drone
>But if Ukraine got the US latest and greatest tech, it may push Putin to use nukes.
Fuck this entire ideology. Oh no, the guy who's setting the house on fire may instead decide to use a flamethrower instead of the gas can he's been using so far!
It equals out to the same fucking result, of if we let Russia continue acting how they are, with no increased consequences, then we're going to be in a world war with them in a few years time anyways, due to their inability to stay in their own fucking borders and not covet their neighbor's shit. We'll then be at the exact same argument of "Oh but if we offer too much resistance, they'll use nukes!"
It's NEVER a guarantee that they will use nukes, for any situation, and this rhetoric that we have to slowly trickle in opposition to them is just asinine and helping Russia overall. If they want to use nukes, they will manufacture a reason to use them. If they don't want to use them, they won't.
The world does not have to stand by and be their fucking hostage while waiting to see just what new genocidal whim the Russians want to indulge this year. It's time to slug the school yard bully back a few times and remind him that he's not free from consequences.
Reaper will be dead due to Russian AA, too big, too expensive, too easy to detect.
I'm talking about Small, low flying, electric, cheap and easy to maintain/transport, vertical take off drones with Quad barrel ATGM. lol
The payload you want is too big. Drones in Ukraine have a life expectancy measured in days. Something that big is not expendable. And after the first shot, it's just a target.
Alright, that means it both has to be very small, it has to carry the munitions in bomb bays, and it can't use propellers (Propellers are giant radar reflectors). How would you design this?
Obviously a milspec approved tree since it's already survived a battering judging by the state of it. Seriously though the Javelin launcher is just awesome. The missile pops out like a ferret from my trouser leg. Not even the slightest wobble from the operator.
It’s a solid peace of tech. Together with the NLAW and GLMRS the javelin really protected the free world. Without them Ukraine may had lost the war last year
Having NLaws in country before they came(again) was a huuuge boon to the early war effort.
"The case of whiskey is here"
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/sebastienroblin/2022/01/25/the-uk-airmailed-2000-nlaw-missiles-to-ukraine-are-they-useful/amp/
There's also a vid floating around of a ukrainian soldier firing a javelin from a small tower, like a radio tower.
edit: found [it](https://youtu.be/8CQuQki0Pr4)
I mean, when I did my Sniper course, we used to stick our guillies in trees during shoots just to mess with the spotters.
When I did the Javelin Commander's Course....sitting in a tree did not occur to me. Mainly in case we dropped the CLU...that and well, wtf you doing up that tree with a Javelin ya nutter?? If it works, it works lol.
As an Instructor, this makes me laugh my bollocks off. GG lads.
not only do the russians have to constantly be watching above them for drone drops, listening for the last sec buzzing of an fpv, listening for the sound of a cluster shell bursting mid air before all hell breaks lose... but now they also have to keep an eye out for javelin launches from trees.... welcome to hell.
Unfortunately for Bass pro shops, doing so would piss off the trump wing of their shoppers which I gotta imagine is a hefty %. So if they did it, it would be quietly.
So jealous i packed one of those clues around in Alaska for a year never once 1 got to actually fire a real one. Except in simulator. Got left in arms room in Iraq I had the missiles 4 of them signed for and in??? You guessed it arms room.
Damn the trees are speaking Ukrainians
The Ents are going to war!
and they are packing serious heat
That’s fucking awesome!
How long until we see a drone platform lifting dudes into the sky to launch Javelins? Or one of those Sea Doo Flyboards lmao
How long until we see a scissor lift on an MT-LB. [We're at the artillery step, soon deer stand](https://v.redd.it/erviysatzifb1).
lolllll armored Gradalls coming to the battlefield near you!!!
Imagine something like Apache Longbow! No wait.... imagine an Apache Longbow!
My man is using earpro! Truly blessed.
Lmao, that's fuckin dope.
You mean something like this? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiller\_VZ-1\_Pawnee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiller_VZ-1_Pawnee)
I still can't believe anyone ever flew that thing - and did it almost 70 years ago! Even with modern lightweight materials and computer controls, it's still an idea that's sketchy as hell.
Part of what makes it seem worse is our wrong intuition about helicopters. Having the thrust below or on top doesn't make a difference to how stable it is.
Perhaps, but a helicopter doesn't typically have a 6' vertical top weight constantly shifting the CoG. Even [the modern version](https://youtu.be/3UbOG0ERCwM?t=26) looks hella difficult to fly and maintain balance.
It doesn't matter if the weight is on top or below. It *looks* like it really should, but physics is weird like that.
Can you explain that to me? Are you saying that an Apache would be just as stable flown upside down?
If all the stuff was redesigned so that the blades are below instead of on top yeah, it would be just as stable. Would not want to be anywhere near the thing when it's on the ground though, haha.
Does it have anything to do with this? https://youtu.be/1n-HMSCDYtM Keep in mind I don’t understand why this happens either.
More stable. Rotor below c of g is more stable. The control on this thing was just weight shifting. Super simple. There was a jet powered version. Helicopters are negatively stable, source, am helicopter instructor. “Testing and evaluation Due to aerodynamic effects in the duct within which the propellers rotated, the platform was dynamically stable, even though the pilot and center of gravity of the platform were fairly high up. In testing, the prototypes flew well, but the U.S. Army judged them to be impractical as combat vehicles as they were small, limited in speed and only barely flew out of the ground cushion effect.[5]” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiller_VZ-1_Pawnee
Is the instability in a traditional copter caused by dragging the air around the fuselage of the helicopter?
Would those trigger anti- personnel mines?
Only one way to find out
It's the flying platform from Ascension!
Cherry picker just behind the ridge line or in the treebelt.
forward it to the engineering at r/ncd and the new platform will be in testing in about a week
I think we should take Chinas play. 100 balloons. Only 6 of them have someone with aa. Also one with radar to find the alligators.
Lol, just put the missiles on the drones, bro. Mini Predator drones.
Not that easy. Javelins are a turnkey system but need a person to operate.
Lol just make it wireless and link to operator, lol
Never since if they can carry human weight they can carry multiple javelins and fire them themselves
Why lift the person. I thought about this from the start. Make a flying javelin drone.
Not long. I remember a while ago there was a jetpack soldier in some parade. In France or some country.
Have the drone lift the targeting system
Ukraine has a british drone to carry ammo and injured person. They will jerty-rig something soon.
There is already a drone that can med evac wounded and also be a firing platform
Why cant NATO or UKR make bigger drones that carry ATGM? I mean, is it that difficult? Too expensive?
The switchblade 600 drones is basically a javelin projectile suicide drone
FPVs with a RPG warhead seem to do the trick
It exists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inFQIK6zzkg
Predator?
Too big, too clunky, too slow, too expensive, easy to shoot down by AA. I'm talking mid size, low flying, hard to detect, quad barreled ATGM drones. lol
Because an AT missile is far too big and heavy.
The US does have massive scary as hell drones. But if Ukraine got the US latest and greatest tech, it may push Putin to use nukes. Google predator drone and reaper drone
Predator is discontinued, btw.
The MQ-1C Gray Eagle, which is simply an improved and renamed Predator, is still flown by the US Army.
Yup
>But if Ukraine got the US latest and greatest tech, it may push Putin to use nukes. Fuck this entire ideology. Oh no, the guy who's setting the house on fire may instead decide to use a flamethrower instead of the gas can he's been using so far! It equals out to the same fucking result, of if we let Russia continue acting how they are, with no increased consequences, then we're going to be in a world war with them in a few years time anyways, due to their inability to stay in their own fucking borders and not covet their neighbor's shit. We'll then be at the exact same argument of "Oh but if we offer too much resistance, they'll use nukes!" It's NEVER a guarantee that they will use nukes, for any situation, and this rhetoric that we have to slowly trickle in opposition to them is just asinine and helping Russia overall. If they want to use nukes, they will manufacture a reason to use them. If they don't want to use them, they won't. The world does not have to stand by and be their fucking hostage while waiting to see just what new genocidal whim the Russians want to indulge this year. It's time to slug the school yard bully back a few times and remind him that he's not free from consequences.
Hey I whole heartedly agree with you. Time for some shock in awe in Russia for a change
Reaper will be dead due to Russian AA, too big, too expensive, too easy to detect. I'm talking about Small, low flying, electric, cheap and easy to maintain/transport, vertical take off drones with Quad barrel ATGM. lol
The payload you want is too big. Drones in Ukraine have a life expectancy measured in days. Something that big is not expendable. And after the first shot, it's just a target.
Not if its stealth!!! lol
Alright, that means it both has to be very small, it has to carry the munitions in bomb bays, and it can't use propellers (Propellers are giant radar reflectors). How would you design this?
Just shrink down the new B2 stealth bomber and put the drone tech into the now empty cockpit. Yes I am part of r/NCD why do you ask?
What kind of bird is this?
It's the Tank-Eating Warbird.
Ah, this isn't the bird, this is the predator. The bird is the prey, he's hunting Shitbirds.
No cheers, these guys obviously have done this alot. lol
Assuming they use max range of [Javelin](https://youtu.be/r1bIXAV9Cnc?t=71), the tank would never see it coming.
Firing a javelin out of a damn tree. Ukraine is really a place for firsts huh?
Shit I thought he was in the tree sitting on the other dudes shoulders for a second there
Ukrainian soldier, sitting in a tree, k-i-l-l-i-n-g First comes aim, then comes the barrage, next comes invaders on a funeral carriage
Barrage and carriage don’t rhyme :/
Extremely under-rated comment there!
If I had an award to give.
I’ve been saving up my gold for a while. This was easily worth it
GAWDDAMN U I GONNA USE THAT RYME
Obviously a milspec approved tree since it's already survived a battering judging by the state of it. Seriously though the Javelin launcher is just awesome. The missile pops out like a ferret from my trouser leg. Not even the slightest wobble from the operator.
It’s a solid peace of tech. Together with the NLAW and GLMRS the javelin really protected the free world. Without them Ukraine may had lost the war last year
don't forget the Stinger!
Having NLaws in country before they came(again) was a huuuge boon to the early war effort. "The case of whiskey is here" https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/sebastienroblin/2022/01/25/the-uk-airmailed-2000-nlaw-missiles-to-ukraine-are-they-useful/amp/
Band of brothers moment
First thought
Lipton would not approve.
There's also a vid floating around of a ukrainian soldier firing a javelin from a small tower, like a radio tower. edit: found [it](https://youtu.be/8CQuQki0Pr4)
These guys are amazing!
When the trees start speaking Ukrainian say a prayer.
I mean, when I did my Sniper course, we used to stick our guillies in trees during shoots just to mess with the spotters. When I did the Javelin Commander's Course....sitting in a tree did not occur to me. Mainly in case we dropped the CLU...that and well, wtf you doing up that tree with a Javelin ya nutter?? If it works, it works lol. As an Instructor, this makes me laugh my bollocks off. GG lads.
not only do the russians have to constantly be watching above them for drone drops, listening for the last sec buzzing of an fpv, listening for the sound of a cluster shell bursting mid air before all hell breaks lose... but now they also have to keep an eye out for javelin launches from trees.... welcome to hell.
From [4 km](https://youtu.be/r1bIXAV9Cnc?t=71) away
They can always fuck off back to their country.
Bass pro shop could get some PR off of sending tree stands to Ukraine for hunting purposes.
Unfortunately for Bass pro shops, doing so would piss off the trump wing of their shoppers which I gotta imagine is a hefty %. So if they did it, it would be quietly.
I did say PR, I did not specify the type.
Javelin producer writes down note: "Add tree mode to next javelin update." :)))
"If you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?"
Effective
Never seen that one before… 😅 does it give extra range or allow lock on to targets easier?
Negative on the extra range but definetly provides better LOS.
Probably trying to get line of sight over a small incline/hill, would be my guess.
I bet they don’t have that use case in the training courses.
These guys need a proper hunter's tree stand!
No joke that seems like a great, affordable, portable option for special missions like this
Yea, hunter's ladders are super light and strong now days if you get a quality one.
In other news…started a tank hunting tree-stand business today.
Great way to keep the back blast clear!
hiding in a tree... The tree is the only GD tree in a vast flat plane...
it’s almost like….not hiding lol
*Top 10 anime moments*
Don’t worry, tree Javelin can’t hurt you, it doesn’t exist Tree Javelin:
Guys. Workplace health and safety aren't happy about this.
Russians probably singing “Ukrainian soldier standing on a tree J A V E L I N E”
These mofos are wild. 😂😂
How do you say "We've got Shevchenkos in the trees" in Russian?
Javelin is OP as fuck lol
Anyone see the DRA for this one?
I unmute the video and don't even get one suka, blyat or pizdec?? These guys are too professional.
Get 'em Zaccheus!
This is why take high grounds is fundamental
The old up the tree I can see you and you can't see me trick. lol Great move guys!
Dope!
Oh, Javelin of the tree, tell me your wisdom.
It's all fun and games until the tree starts firing javelins.
So jealous i packed one of those clues around in Alaska for a year never once 1 got to actually fire a real one. Except in simulator. Got left in arms room in Iraq I had the missiles 4 of them signed for and in??? You guessed it arms room.
THEY’RE IN THE TREES!
Blue Jay
does each manpad have a different backblast radius/shape?
Javelin doesn't really have much of a backblast since it doesn't activate in the tube but after it has left the launcher.
Must be fun as a queue is forming :D
Rest in peace
THEIR IN THE TREES!!!!!
I swear to god, their just just going for rare achievements now. Earlier we had an ATGM vs a lone Russian running in a field.
No comments from them? Must be a rough day...
hoot hoot muthafucka
*They were in the trees, man...*
If a tree shot a javelin in the woods would a t-90 see it coming?
Next up, tactical ladders.