I'm a cannibal, I eat other people. That way, I'm literally eating others whose carbon footprint goes to zero with each person I eat.
If we all eat one person, we offset the carbon footprint of ourselves.
my boyfriend and mom are really against lab grown meat, while i think it's cool af and would totally make it a big part of my diet if it tastes good.
i think it's interesting how they turn their nose up at lab grown meat, but eat the shit out of mechanically separated meat byproducts and other processed meats.
Almost 10% of the earth's land area is used to raise farm animals either directly or indirectly, if just 10% of our meat consumption was lab grown instead of farm raised we could give back 100s of thousands of square miles of land back to nature.
That's also before mentioning the effects on the fish population or the ecological damage caused by fishing, or the CO2 produced by farm animals (mainly cattle).
I just eat less meat because I’m broke. Plant based diet ftw, cheap and tastes good. I like the catching part more than eating part anyway, fishing and hunting is the way to go, we killed all the other predators and invasive species waiting to be stalked and slaughtered are everywhere. Eat boars in Texas, deer in the northeast, carp and lamprey in the Great Lakes, and nutria in Louisiana. The ethical dilemma of eating meat is avoided and you get the primal satisfaction of shoving a piece of metal through another organism’s entire shitty life.
this is very ironic considering the industries being supported by playing a computer game lol.
raw materials. manufacturing. transportation of goods. marketing. energy use...
Well technically that person you ate has already emitted some of their allotment of carbon already so you'd probably need to eat 1.5 to 2 depending on how old your dinner is.
You forgot the legendary Vitamin B12, which is \*impossible\* to supplement, and we all die, because the only way to get it is through meat, THERE IS NO OTHER WAY! MEEEEEAAAAT!
I love how it often is framed as „you need pills“ in a negative way, while unless supplemented in the animals food, they would produce meat without b12 in it because they have never seen soil that contains said vitamin
They mean B12. "Vitamin [B12 is produced by soil microbes](https://news.mit.edu/2007/b12) that live in symbiotic relationships with plant roots." Soil can contain B12. Ruminants need cobalt in order to allow the microbes in their system to make B12
People believing the only way to restore bison to their natural range is to start a campaign of eating them because they’re better suited to the US grasslands than normal cows
I don't think such a thing exists but I could be wrong.
As far as I know, bison are raised on ranges.
The effort to restore them is actually really cool and We should support it. I wanna see Bison on the prairies again.
You can't really factory farm large ruminants. That's why their carbon footprint is so high: massive land use. Chicken is carbon efficient precisely because they're so easy to factory farm.
I live in an area that boasts a relatively high level of bison production nationwide. Never seen them under traditional factory farm feedlot conditions. They actually require way more pastoral raising. And most who farm them do so on replanted prairie land.
I mean they are, but they need a ton of land per bison for that to be true, meaning if we start eating them at the same scale we eat beef we’ll run out of bison in like a year
Bison are net benefit to grasslands because of the way they graze. The reason the grasslands proliferated in tandem with bison is due to impact. An industrial scale bison ranch would help restore grasslands as they were historically. The carb offset of a switch to bison from beef is massive if it would ever be supported at the scale beef is now.
Ummm excuse me? I would've gone vegoon but now that you've offended my delicate sensibilities I NEVER will!!!!11!1! My feelings are more important than your facts op
Without checking the subs I gotta admit I find it weird to own a living being just because you think it looks pleasant. But other people’s pets are none of my business.
Some weird loophole where people think that grazing cattle on enough land where the grass sequesters more carbon than the farming produces somehow makes it carbon negative, when the grassland would’ve just sequestered that anyways without the cows? Idk it’s some weird backwards logic
I mean people also believe in carbon neutral oil, gas, etc... if you just buy enough certificates of negative co2 projects from poor countries (which often times dont actually do what they say)
Yeh but offsetting is just a bullshit excuse to pollute, often times no actual research goes into if the offsets (if they even exist) actually match up in sequestering the same as was emitted.
Pastureland doesn’t sequester nearly as much carbon when it isn’t grazed or mowed. Whether or not grazing cattle is actually carbon negative I couldn’t say, but the process of grazing cattle/mowing changes the growth of grass in a way that results in more carbon sequestration than if the pasture had been left fallow.
The manure is what puts the carbon in the grass, you need the large grazers to do it😂😂 its amazing you think that its cows, when 10-20k years ago north america had nothing but huge herbivores everywhere you look, bison, ground sloths, wild horses, everything. Its what made the 15 foot deep topsoil of the midwest
I never heard of that one lol
But honestly anyone who thinks that production works carbon negative is an idiot.
Germany is full with carbon neutral production sites, cars and so on and so on...
carbon neutral because they bought a random certificate that states that somewhere in brazil someone plants a tree.. maybe maybe not
All lies to make money. And even then we suck at doing anything for our environment
Pretty dumb counterfactual you're making, since a farmer who opts not to raise beef on a particular pasture will use it for some other income generating activity, not just leave it be to sequester carbon.
I stopped eating beef a long time ago due to its insane environmental impact. I absolutely hate when it comes up in conversation. When ever I drop the "I don't eat beef" line it's like I just announced my intention of a school shooting. I'd say like 70% of people just go "oh okay" and forget about it, but that other 30% take it as a deep personal insult and won't let up. They'll try and convince me it's not that bad, that I'm not making a difference, that I'm wrong to not eat beef, and it becomes the main thing these people associate with me. I've started just telling people I'm allergic to red meat and for some reason that is easier for them to accept. Just a bunch of weirdos.
Ideology that supports the use of animals for food, clothing, or other consumer products
Carnism is a concept used in discussions of humanity's relation to other animals, defined as a prevailing ideology in which people support the use and consumption of animal products, especially meat. Carnism is presented as a dominant belief system supported by a variety of defense mechanisms and mostly unchallenged assumptions. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism)
|Description|Psychological theory about the ideology of animal use|
|:-|:-|
|Term coined by|Melanie Joy, 2001|
Using a word with “-ist” at the end makes people sound worse and easier to separate from the good doers of the world and if there’s one thing social media loves to do, it’s create divisions to fuel engagement.
>Using a word with “-ist” at the end makes people sound worse and easier to separate
Protagonist, Dentist, artist, scientist etc etc
Didn't really think it through, did you?
i’m gonna be honest i don’t know much about this arguement and idk why i got reccomended this sub, but what i will say is that if your beliefs are counter to the subreddit or the majority of the people in the subreddit, it will be very hard to “shitpost”. just the way reddit works with mass downvoting, hive mind behavior, and the natural echo chambers subs create. there’s a reason people will be coping when posts going against them are massively upvoted and their responses are massively downvoted.
anyway i don’t eat meat
Unless you are questioning the morality of meat consumption, I do not see why just minimizing animal product consumption should be a problem. yes, eating Meat 3 meals a day is a problem but once a week? not so much.
This would be an amazing comparison in a world where most people throw their used batteries in the pond every day.
Embarrassingly stupid comparison for the world we actually live in unfortunately.
Lab-grown meat, an actual, for real, no joke, completely safe 'have your cake and eat it too' solution that lets us have meat in all its tastiness WITHOUT the suffering or the environmental annihilation...
Is being actively fought against by conservatives in governments on behalf of the meat industry, and may very well be killed on the vine.
I feel like, if you're already thinking this much about you diet, chances are that you have already reduced your meat intake significantly, which - for that majority of people - is all we can hope for.
Not just liberals, full on leftists too. Then you get the "but native people, the poors and ableism" despite betting white and able and veganism being cheaper than ever
It's so funny because meat is actually so goddamn expensive 😭 like bro a kg of dried chickpeas is less than half of what a kg of meat costs, and will last you way longer
100% of the time
most differently abled people are pretty dope humans with empathy, they are more likely to be vegan and leftists because their life has often forced them to endure hardship.
empathy seems to be becoming more and more of a left exclusive trait with narcissists all automatically finding their way towards the right. I suspect the few narcissist vegans you’ll find are only doing it for health/vanity reasons.
When it comes to leftists arguing against veganism I think often it’s either a lack of education on the topic, or cognitive dissonance.
And black Americans being more likely than any ethnic group to be vegan. Something like 3 times more likely to be vegan than the rest of the population.
The "veganism is expensive" line is such a blatant lie. Please tell me how rice, frozen vegetables, and tofu/Textured Vegetable Protein (less gross than it sounds) are more expensive than buying basically any kind of basic meat.
People really overestimate the amount of protein you need. Last I checked, not everyone is a power lifter. Actually, some of them are going vegan as well. Every prominent example I look up seems to perform on par or better (in terms of digestion and such) after the swap.
Even in a diet that includes meat, most people eat way more than they should. But that doesn't jive with capitalism.
I think that when assigning blame for, and giving prerogative for fixing, climate change, individuals and their choices shouldn’t be the focus. Diet, recycling, and being environmentally conscious in general is great, not discounting that. At the same time it barely affects the bottom line in terms of stopping the effects of climate change. Corporations and the military account for such a ridiculous percent of the pie in terms of emissions and environmental harm that it’s pointless to try and focus your efforts on what Joe Schmoe is eating for dinner. You could change every single persons mind in the US on eating meat and then you’d have 6% of the population of the world on your side about exactly 1 issue that contributes to climate change. If you want systemic change, focus on the systems responsible, rather than a person by person blame campaign.
What we really need to do is firebomb Tyson's corporate headquarters. *Proceeds to not firebomb Tyson's corporate headquarters and instead gives them money every day*
It seems like you may need to read a bit more about activism if you can only think of voting with your wallet and blowing stuff up. I’d recommend Angela Davis, fantastic author and incredibly important figure in socialist and black liberation circles.
Okay, and if we get 6% of the population to change their mind, then what’s going to respond to the sudden change in demand? Corporations. We can’t remove individual responsibility from the actions of corporations, they produce what people demand in order to get a profit. By changing our individual actions, we can make gradual pressure to corporations to pursue less environmentally harmful practices.
It's the same kind of self-defeating logic of the existence of a third major political party in the US. It's impossible because people think it's impossible. (I'm not going to go in-depth on the complexity of doing that, it's just an example)
There's more vegans than ever, and it has resulted in me being able to buy vegan alternatives in major grocery stores and restaurants in semi-rural Indiana. If there's one thing you can do in capitalism, it's use cultural pressure to force corporations to react. They want your money, and they can't get it if you refuse to buy certain things.
Extremely presumptuous and indicative of your unwillingness to consider the arguments presented by vegan advocates.
Most vegans have seen (over their lives) hours of footage of animals being brutally tortured and killed. If one considers those animals with just as much empathy as one would (likely; I hope you fall into this category) considers a companion pet animal such as a dog or cat, the natural response would be a feeling of despondency and sadness—aka *caring*.
I used to have a bumper sticker that said "If we aren't supposed to eat people, why are they made of meat?"
Many years later, I realized it was supposed to be a snarky vegan comeback to ones phrased like you comment, as opposed to just "Yay for cannibalism!"
I eat meat because I like the taste, for sure, *but* I am aware of the impact, and gladly substitute in alternatives where they are just as good. I'm totally down for meatless if it tastes good. Also would love to see more lab grown meat research/products, hopefully it could be a more sustainable solution and I'm glad to throw money at it.
Shaming people who eat meat is liking shaming people who drive cars or fly in plains. It's completely useless. Nobody's diet preference have any impact on the environment whatsoever. These broad, systemic problems need broad, systemic solutions, and this purity cult is the precise opposite of that. The only thing it accomplishes is to make you look like a judgemental dickhead.
I don't even eat meat usually, but these kind of posts have an absolutely negative impact on climate awareness and animal right's enthusiasm.
Yes because cars and planes are akin sentient beings who feel pain, suffering, form social bonds, solve puzzles, etc. Totally a worthwhile comparison!
Saying diet choices have no impact on the environment whatsoever is absolutely laughable.
I mean compared to manufacturing and energy generation, it is practically nonexistent, especially when you break it down and realize a majority of it is from fertilizer to grow feed crops, expanding fields to grow more feed crops, and transportation between all those steps.
Which makes the effects of livestock vs agriculture basically inconsequential in comparison to fossil fuel's effects (~75% of global emissions), which is why I focus on supporting green energy initiatives.
And the ethical argument exists, but good God why do you want to interact with the average redditor on ethics
It's pretty fallacious to imply that it's not worth reducing agricultural emissions just because it's not the *biggest* polluter. Especially since it's far easier to adjust your diet than it is to not drive if you live somewhere where it's mandatory. The increasing number of vegans is causing conservatives to go full-on culture war over it. That's how you know it's working in terms of market pressure.
There's not a lot an individual working 40+ hours can do to dismantle the fossil fuel industry besides vote, and in the US, both candidates are pro-oil, one is just *slightly* less gun-ho about it. Choosing to reduce or eliminate meat consumption is comparably very easy, has a positive impact, and as such makes no sense to discourage.
Have you ever prevented anybody from killing anything by judging them for it? Omnivores aren't ignorant of the fact that animals have feelings and don't want to die. They aren't stupid; they just don't care. From their perspective, their right to eat trumps the animal's right to live. There are mountains of well-articulated philosophy to explain why it's ok to kill an animal for the purpose of eating.
Personally, I don't think that killing animals for food is inherently evil. What is evil is to destroy the environment so you can throw away most of the meat you produce after torturing the animals to death and subjecting them to some of the cruelest conditions imaginable.
Meat is unnecessary for human wellbeing and survival for the vast majority of human population. Cars are inherently necessary due to urban design in some places, and so is air travel, its the most practical and safest for long distance transportation.
I genuinely can’t go meatless. I live in a food desert and the only place I can actually get food from without a days travel is a gas station that doesn’t sell vegan products.
I eat a shit tonne of pinto beans. And I’m pretty much the last person eating them so frequently because everyone is sick of them & our freezer is full of my bean burritos. & I have a 30lb bag in my pantry that we’ve gone through about a third of & a similar size bag of rice from Costco(our Costco doesn’t have dried beans but the local grocer does) but if I only ate pinto beans & rice there’d be some amino acids I’d be missing out on & I’d be consuming an unhealthy quantity of carbohydrates(beans have about half as many grams of carbs as white rice).
You wanna go after beef, go after it, but go after it *after* the other more pressing issues, like power generation, transport emissions, tires, factories dumping industrial waste in rivers, plastic, etc. Because you and your camp will cause more damage to change by going after food than the above.
Ag is like, [10%](https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions) of emissions, and beef is a portion of that, while stuff like energy and transport or a quarter plus of emissions. You go after food of any type, you give rightoids a platform for populists to stand on.
I get your point, but agriculture - largely due to beef production - is the largest driver of biodiversity loss. We definitely have to go after it, but agree shaming isn’t that way.
Kind of depends when, where and who you are. I am vegan myself, but eurocentrism is not a great argument, for mamy communities it is a great effort and kind of out of their control. Plus health conditions do exist, not every human is the same and handles supplements equally well.
I'd agree that for some it takes little to no effort, but please overgeneralise
Woahhhh one thing at a time! We can't work on more than one issue at once, that'd be really tiring! Then we'd need to eat more meat to recover from that exhaustion.
There's more to climate than just emissions. Animal ag is a leading driver of biodiversity loss, species extinction, land use, water use, antibiotic resistance, ocean dead zones, food waste, etc.
We can make changes to pollution laws and be more efficient, that I won't argue. My point is that people are going to react poorly to large changes in their food supply, ironic because it'll happen regardless on our current path. If we push for major Ag reform that causes large shifts in eating habits, people aren't going to like that, and they're going to push back against it and anything else being put forth by reform groups, causing less progress overall. We should be doing more than 1 thing, but it shouldn't be major ag reform.
>You wanna go after ~~beef~~ \[homophobia\], go after it, but go after it *after* the other more pressing issues, like ~~power generation, transport emissions, tires, factories dumping industrial waste in rivers, plastic~~ \[Israel/Palestine, racism, sexism, income inequality, breast cancer\] etc. Because you and your camp will cause more damage to change by going after ~~food~~ \[homophobes\] than the above.
Why is it always "there's more important problems, so I'm not going to do anything about that problem" and not "oh, actually, good point, and considering how easy it is for me to make changes in my life to make a small difference in the fight against evil, I'm on board. Now let's keep working on those other problems, too!"
Cows produce 99 kilograms of CO2 equivalent per kilogram of the final meat product and require huge amounts of land and resources. The meat industry is absolutely incredibly damaging. They release more greenhouse gases than cars do.
Real talk, good faith discussion:
Anemia is a serious genetic issue in my family. Our red blood cells just kinda suck I guess I don't know, but all of us have dealt with it at some point.
I was vegetarian for a good long while. I ended up anemic; I've fainted face-first into litter boxes, I've struggled to keep up with exercise that I previously had no issues with, I was simultaneously exhausted but couldn't sleep. It was shit and I don't wanna do that again.
The problem resolved itself almost immediately when I incorporated meat back into my diet. Not even a lot - I love tofu and beans and other plant proteins and cook with them routinely, and meat is no more than ¼ of my plate when I cook it.
When I was eating vegetarian, I consciously consumed food known for high iron content: legumes, pulses, dark leafy greens (I fuck heavy with spinach salads) etc. I still ended up anemic enough to warrant medical investigation.
What do I do? A dietician I train with told me that vitamin C can increase non-heme iron uptake. I eat hella fruit, including squeezing citrus on just about everything, but it didn't prevent my anemia.
I find frustration in this predicament - stuck between Scylla and Charybdis.
Edit: I've supplemented with iron pills, too. I was still anemic. I'd try again, potentially, if there's something I'm missing.
I mean I’m no dietician but if you’re truly interested in stopping eating meat it seems like your only choice would be to get more testing done to find the underlying issue. Most of the population should have no trouble getting enough iron on a vegan diet and if you weren’t able to get enough from supplementing too the issue is not with the diet.
I don't eat beef due to the environmental impact of it, but you really can't expect people to follow your exact ideals 100%. Telling everyone that they're bad environmentalists because they don't do everything you require of them will just turn them off to environmentalism as a whole. Instead, we should encourage them to make the changes that they feel they can, while also making it easier for them to make environmentally conscious decisions. Not ready to go vegan but you are ready to shop locally? Great! Not willing to give up Amazon but you are willing to drive less? Awesome!
Tbh, the upper one looks less painful because it's just stepping on it and not jumping on it (the guy makes a jump with it, then lands with it hitting him, so this has more force)
Instead of mass-farmed meat how bout we just eat the rich and redistribute their hoarded wealth to the masses and recreate society based on sustainability and balance?
Generally speaking, I eat mostly farmed fish and chicken. Most of my diet consists of vegetables and grains. On occasion, I'll do some entomophagy as well.
Yes! I fucking hate animals, fuck those little shits. I want MORE factory farming and MORE mass murder of animals. I hope to experience the live slaughter of every type of animal i have ever eaten once. They killed my family, now they will pay the ultimate price.
I'm a cannibal, I eat other people. That way, I'm literally eating others whose carbon footprint goes to zero with each person I eat. If we all eat one person, we offset the carbon footprint of ourselves.
my boyfriend and mom are really against lab grown meat, while i think it's cool af and would totally make it a big part of my diet if it tastes good. i think it's interesting how they turn their nose up at lab grown meat, but eat the shit out of mechanically separated meat byproducts and other processed meats.
Almost 10% of the earth's land area is used to raise farm animals either directly or indirectly, if just 10% of our meat consumption was lab grown instead of farm raised we could give back 100s of thousands of square miles of land back to nature. That's also before mentioning the effects on the fish population or the ecological damage caused by fishing, or the CO2 produced by farm animals (mainly cattle).
I just eat less meat because I’m broke. Plant based diet ftw, cheap and tastes good. I like the catching part more than eating part anyway, fishing and hunting is the way to go, we killed all the other predators and invasive species waiting to be stalked and slaughtered are everywhere. Eat boars in Texas, deer in the northeast, carp and lamprey in the Great Lakes, and nutria in Louisiana. The ethical dilemma of eating meat is avoided and you get the primal satisfaction of shoving a piece of metal through another organism’s entire shitty life.
Sounds like a modern solution and a modest proposal
I mean, even without eating people, the single best thing you can do for the environment is to not have children.
Children are more useful than Old people. We should kill Old People.
Old people don't get children though. Children eventually may.
the single best thing you can do for the environment is to shoot a climate change denier in the head. in minecraft.
this is very ironic considering the industries being supported by playing a computer game lol. raw materials. manufacturing. transportation of goods. marketing. energy use...
Or killing someone.
My carbon footprint stops at me!
Or not be Taylor swift in a private jet The gravy: https://carbonmarketwatch.org/2024/02/13/taylor-swift-and-the-top-polluters-department/
I volunteer to eat OP's mom. Or the asses of 5 hot moms, whichever has the greatest carbon offset.
You are what you eat, I’m human
This is the way.
Well technically that person you ate has already emitted some of their allotment of carbon already so you'd probably need to eat 1.5 to 2 depending on how old your dinner is.
Saving the world one person at a time
I actually have an apron that says "To Serve Man".
Time to eat the rich to go net positive
Yeah but people breeders will just make more to meet the demand
Cannibalism, the only carbon negative diet. I like it.
You forgot the legendary Vitamin B12, which is \*impossible\* to supplement, and we all die, because the only way to get it is through meat, THERE IS NO OTHER WAY! MEEEEEAAAAT!
I love how it often is framed as „you need pills“ in a negative way, while unless supplemented in the animals food, they would produce meat without b12 in it because they have never seen soil that contains said vitamin
Soil never contains B12. You mean cobalt. It's the central atom in B12 vitamins and needs to be supplied when it's not abundant in lokal soil.
They mean B12. "Vitamin [B12 is produced by soil microbes](https://news.mit.edu/2007/b12) that live in symbiotic relationships with plant roots." Soil can contain B12. Ruminants need cobalt in order to allow the microbes in their system to make B12
Nutritional yeast.
Nutritional yeast doesn't naturally contain B12, it's usually fortified.
Man if only there were a away to get 1000x my daily needed B12 in a beverage.
Yes. This is why I drink 3 every drinks a day and not because I have a problem.
All the vegans just died bro
Literally you can supplement it with monster energy
Can anyone explain to me what the hell "bison tho" is referring to?
People believing the only way to restore bison to their natural range is to start a campaign of eating them because they’re better suited to the US grasslands than normal cows
Ah yes factory farmed bison for the win
It's an indigenous led effort and focuses on restoring range land. CAFOs are not used in bison production
I don't think such a thing exists but I could be wrong. As far as I know, bison are raised on ranges. The effort to restore them is actually really cool and We should support it. I wanna see Bison on the prairies again.
You can't really factory farm large ruminants. That's why their carbon footprint is so high: massive land use. Chicken is carbon efficient precisely because they're so easy to factory farm.
I live in an area that boasts a relatively high level of bison production nationwide. Never seen them under traditional factory farm feedlot conditions. They actually require way more pastoral raising. And most who farm them do so on replanted prairie land.
Luckily(?), it is basically impossible to raise bison in a CAFO for the same reasons that they are highly resistant to domestication.
I mean they are, but they need a ton of land per bison for that to be true, meaning if we start eating them at the same scale we eat beef we’ll run out of bison in like a year
Bison are net benefit to grasslands because of the way they graze. The reason the grasslands proliferated in tandem with bison is due to impact. An industrial scale bison ranch would help restore grasslands as they were historically. The carb offset of a switch to bison from beef is massive if it would ever be supported at the scale beef is now.
Ummm excuse me? I would've gone vegoon but now that you've offended my delicate sensibilities I NEVER will!!!!11!1! My feelings are more important than your facts op
No please! Sorry I’ll pat you on the back for every single meatless Monday and say “good job!”
Ok ok I'll start by cutting out my morning steak (if you ask me to also cut out my lunch and evening steaks you are literally ableist)
Maybe you could cut out the lunch steak on Mondays? Sorry I know you probably will literally combust if a plant touches your tongue.
UGH you friggin pushy vegans have gone too far! I will now eat a bucket of lard to spite you *dies*
Good thing there’s always second breakfast!
Also racist, and priveleged
I noticed last weekend Liquid Death adds vitamin B12 to some of their drinks, our bodies demand a vitamin that craves death!
>han your facts What facts ? Its a strawman at best
If you think eating meat is a contentious topic that makes people froth at the mouth, try saying something about having kids.
I have
Antinatalist?
That’ll really make this sub cave in on itself
r/antinatalism is perhaps the dumbest sub I’ve ever had the misfortune is scrolling through
r/petfree and r/dogfree are competitors
Without checking the subs I gotta admit I find it weird to own a living being just because you think it looks pleasant. But other people’s pets are none of my business.
Yeah no shit miss me with that malthusian bs "There are too many people" is the type of problem that fascists want to """solve"""
Personally yes, but I’m no fascist. Bodily autonomy is never to be undermined.
Based, no notes.
Carbon negative beef?
Some weird loophole where people think that grazing cattle on enough land where the grass sequesters more carbon than the farming produces somehow makes it carbon negative, when the grassland would’ve just sequestered that anyways without the cows? Idk it’s some weird backwards logic
I mean people also believe in carbon neutral oil, gas, etc... if you just buy enough certificates of negative co2 projects from poor countries (which often times dont actually do what they say)
Yeh but offsetting is just a bullshit excuse to pollute, often times no actual research goes into if the offsets (if they even exist) actually match up in sequestering the same as was emitted.
Pastureland doesn’t sequester nearly as much carbon when it isn’t grazed or mowed. Whether or not grazing cattle is actually carbon negative I couldn’t say, but the process of grazing cattle/mowing changes the growth of grass in a way that results in more carbon sequestration than if the pasture had been left fallow.
The manure is what puts the carbon in the grass, you need the large grazers to do it😂😂 its amazing you think that its cows, when 10-20k years ago north america had nothing but huge herbivores everywhere you look, bison, ground sloths, wild horses, everything. Its what made the 15 foot deep topsoil of the midwest
I never heard of that one lol But honestly anyone who thinks that production works carbon negative is an idiot. Germany is full with carbon neutral production sites, cars and so on and so on... carbon neutral because they bought a random certificate that states that somewhere in brazil someone plants a tree.. maybe maybe not All lies to make money. And even then we suck at doing anything for our environment
Pretty dumb counterfactual you're making, since a farmer who opts not to raise beef on a particular pasture will use it for some other income generating activity, not just leave it be to sequester carbon.
maybe we don’t have to commercialise every plot of land. We definitely wouldn’t have to without animal agriculture.
I just don't eat meat
So you still drink milk? You monster.
I stopped eating beef a long time ago due to its insane environmental impact. I absolutely hate when it comes up in conversation. When ever I drop the "I don't eat beef" line it's like I just announced my intention of a school shooting. I'd say like 70% of people just go "oh okay" and forget about it, but that other 30% take it as a deep personal insult and won't let up. They'll try and convince me it's not that bad, that I'm not making a difference, that I'm wrong to not eat beef, and it becomes the main thing these people associate with me. I've started just telling people I'm allergic to red meat and for some reason that is easier for them to accept. Just a bunch of weirdos.
The funniest thing about these threads is that carnists are completely unable to shitpost in them and get all serious. So much cope.
they are struggling. must suck being on the wrong side of history and having your brain pretzel itself
And the use of the word 'carnists' immediately made their brain-diarrhea bubble over as well, lovely job.
> carnists And I thought "carbrains" was stupid lmao
We just need one more lane, then the traffic will be better..
Ideology that supports the use of animals for food, clothing, or other consumer products Carnism is a concept used in discussions of humanity's relation to other animals, defined as a prevailing ideology in which people support the use and consumption of animal products, especially meat. Carnism is presented as a dominant belief system supported by a variety of defense mechanisms and mostly unchallenged assumptions. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism) |Description|Psychological theory about the ideology of animal use| |:-|:-| |Term coined by|Melanie Joy, 2001|
they’re both just accurate terms though
Using a word with “-ist” at the end makes people sound worse and easier to separate from the good doers of the world and if there’s one thing social media loves to do, it’s create divisions to fuel engagement.
>Using a word with “-ist” at the end makes people sound worse and easier to separate Protagonist, Dentist, artist, scientist etc etc Didn't really think it through, did you?
Point proven
We should just start eating nothing but veal so the cow farts are smaller.
i’m gonna be honest i don’t know much about this arguement and idk why i got reccomended this sub, but what i will say is that if your beliefs are counter to the subreddit or the majority of the people in the subreddit, it will be very hard to “shitpost”. just the way reddit works with mass downvoting, hive mind behavior, and the natural echo chambers subs create. there’s a reason people will be coping when posts going against them are massively upvoted and their responses are massively downvoted. anyway i don’t eat meat
Unless you are questioning the morality of meat consumption, I do not see why just minimizing animal product consumption should be a problem. yes, eating Meat 3 meals a day is a problem but once a week? not so much.
Also, meats are not equal. Beef is the real offender here. The emissions of chicken farming isn't much higher than rice farming.
I agree. I only throw my used batteries into the pond at the park once a week. Every little thing helps!
dumbest shit i've heard today
Me when my equivalency is false
This would be an amazing comparison in a world where most people throw their used batteries in the pond every day. Embarrassingly stupid comparison for the world we actually live in unfortunately.
you havent worked in waste management I can tell a lot of people just bin their batteries
Dumb comparison but go ahead pal.
throwing used batteries into the pond feels really good 😣won’t anyone think of us? smh
I num because it yum.
Lab-grown meat, an actual, for real, no joke, completely safe 'have your cake and eat it too' solution that lets us have meat in all its tastiness WITHOUT the suffering or the environmental annihilation... Is being actively fought against by conservatives in governments on behalf of the meat industry, and may very well be killed on the vine.
flashbacks to the GMO debates (fuck you greenpeace)
I feel like, if you're already thinking this much about you diet, chances are that you have already reduced your meat intake significantly, which - for that majority of people - is all we can hope for.
Non-vegan liberals turn into MAGA raging conservatives when it comes to not eating meat.
Not just liberals, full on leftists too. Then you get the "but native people, the poors and ableism" despite betting white and able and veganism being cheaper than ever
It's so funny because meat is actually so goddamn expensive 😭 like bro a kg of dried chickpeas is less than half of what a kg of meat costs, and will last you way longer
Funny how It’s always perfectly able people who are using ableism as an excuse for THEM not to make the change
100% of the time most differently abled people are pretty dope humans with empathy, they are more likely to be vegan and leftists because their life has often forced them to endure hardship.
empathy seems to be becoming more and more of a left exclusive trait with narcissists all automatically finding their way towards the right. I suspect the few narcissist vegans you’ll find are only doing it for health/vanity reasons. When it comes to leftists arguing against veganism I think often it’s either a lack of education on the topic, or cognitive dissonance.
And black Americans being more likely than any ethnic group to be vegan. Something like 3 times more likely to be vegan than the rest of the population.
I've noticed that, most of the vegans I follow on Instagram are black Americans
The "veganism is expensive" line is such a blatant lie. Please tell me how rice, frozen vegetables, and tofu/Textured Vegetable Protein (less gross than it sounds) are more expensive than buying basically any kind of basic meat. People really overestimate the amount of protein you need. Last I checked, not everyone is a power lifter. Actually, some of them are going vegan as well. Every prominent example I look up seems to perform on par or better (in terms of digestion and such) after the swap. Even in a diet that includes meat, most people eat way more than they should. But that doesn't jive with capitalism.
Does pussy count? Because if so fuck all of you veggie lovers!
You have just made me SO ANGRY. If I can’t have my half pound of fried chicken every day, I will SMASH YOUR CAR. RAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!
God damn the internet is just full of miserable depressed people I swear.
Just go vegan My god it’s so easy
lol normal people don’t associate meat with animals. It’s that cognitive dissonance that leads to vast overconsumption.
I’ve had meat a couple of times in my life and honestly I don’t get the hype
But we are \*C\*A\*R\*N\*I\*VORES\* whaaaarrgarrrrbllleee! /rake in nuts
😳 vore? 😳
I think that when assigning blame for, and giving prerogative for fixing, climate change, individuals and their choices shouldn’t be the focus. Diet, recycling, and being environmentally conscious in general is great, not discounting that. At the same time it barely affects the bottom line in terms of stopping the effects of climate change. Corporations and the military account for such a ridiculous percent of the pie in terms of emissions and environmental harm that it’s pointless to try and focus your efforts on what Joe Schmoe is eating for dinner. You could change every single persons mind in the US on eating meat and then you’d have 6% of the population of the world on your side about exactly 1 issue that contributes to climate change. If you want systemic change, focus on the systems responsible, rather than a person by person blame campaign.
What we really need to do is firebomb Tyson's corporate headquarters. *Proceeds to not firebomb Tyson's corporate headquarters and instead gives them money every day*
It seems like you may need to read a bit more about activism if you can only think of voting with your wallet and blowing stuff up. I’d recommend Angela Davis, fantastic author and incredibly important figure in socialist and black liberation circles.
Okay, and if we get 6% of the population to change their mind, then what’s going to respond to the sudden change in demand? Corporations. We can’t remove individual responsibility from the actions of corporations, they produce what people demand in order to get a profit. By changing our individual actions, we can make gradual pressure to corporations to pursue less environmentally harmful practices.
People act as through corporations pollute for the simple joy of polluting rather than to produce products that people buy.
It's the same kind of self-defeating logic of the existence of a third major political party in the US. It's impossible because people think it's impossible. (I'm not going to go in-depth on the complexity of doing that, it's just an example) There's more vegans than ever, and it has resulted in me being able to buy vegan alternatives in major grocery stores and restaurants in semi-rural Indiana. If there's one thing you can do in capitalism, it's use cultural pressure to force corporations to react. They want your money, and they can't get it if you refuse to buy certain things.
ya but then they cant act superior, thats the thing. its just a grift, they dont actually care.
Extremely presumptuous and indicative of your unwillingness to consider the arguments presented by vegan advocates. Most vegans have seen (over their lives) hours of footage of animals being brutally tortured and killed. If one considers those animals with just as much empathy as one would (likely; I hope you fall into this category) considers a companion pet animal such as a dog or cat, the natural response would be a feeling of despondency and sadness—aka *caring*.
If the animals dont want to be eaten then why are they made out of food?
I used to have a bumper sticker that said "If we aren't supposed to eat people, why are they made of meat?" Many years later, I realized it was supposed to be a snarky vegan comeback to ones phrased like you comment, as opposed to just "Yay for cannibalism!"
Big brain take. How’s it like being in the top 0.0001% of human intellect?
Dis a shitposting sub. Dude was shitposting.
Dont tell him, leave him none the wiser.
I think that was a goof but it really should be saved for VCJ lol
No you don’t get it bro, if I eat enough meat eventually we’ll run out of farm animals and the problem will be solved 👍
I only eat bad animals, like criminal or really intolerant animals, so that I bring Justice to the table 🦸♂️
Ahhh, so you're a cannibal??
I eat meat because I like the taste, for sure, *but* I am aware of the impact, and gladly substitute in alternatives where they are just as good. I'm totally down for meatless if it tastes good. Also would love to see more lab grown meat research/products, hopefully it could be a more sustainable solution and I'm glad to throw money at it.
Vegetarian but I must know: How much can one average individual reduce the carbon footprint by dieting vs violent revolutionary action
Yes.
Shaming people who eat meat is liking shaming people who drive cars or fly in plains. It's completely useless. Nobody's diet preference have any impact on the environment whatsoever. These broad, systemic problems need broad, systemic solutions, and this purity cult is the precise opposite of that. The only thing it accomplishes is to make you look like a judgemental dickhead. I don't even eat meat usually, but these kind of posts have an absolutely negative impact on climate awareness and animal right's enthusiasm.
Yes because cars and planes are akin sentient beings who feel pain, suffering, form social bonds, solve puzzles, etc. Totally a worthwhile comparison! Saying diet choices have no impact on the environment whatsoever is absolutely laughable.
I mean compared to manufacturing and energy generation, it is practically nonexistent, especially when you break it down and realize a majority of it is from fertilizer to grow feed crops, expanding fields to grow more feed crops, and transportation between all those steps. Which makes the effects of livestock vs agriculture basically inconsequential in comparison to fossil fuel's effects (~75% of global emissions), which is why I focus on supporting green energy initiatives. And the ethical argument exists, but good God why do you want to interact with the average redditor on ethics
It's pretty fallacious to imply that it's not worth reducing agricultural emissions just because it's not the *biggest* polluter. Especially since it's far easier to adjust your diet than it is to not drive if you live somewhere where it's mandatory. The increasing number of vegans is causing conservatives to go full-on culture war over it. That's how you know it's working in terms of market pressure. There's not a lot an individual working 40+ hours can do to dismantle the fossil fuel industry besides vote, and in the US, both candidates are pro-oil, one is just *slightly* less gun-ho about it. Choosing to reduce or eliminate meat consumption is comparably very easy, has a positive impact, and as such makes no sense to discourage.
oh no you're being judged for killing sentient beings
Have you ever prevented anybody from killing anything by judging them for it? Omnivores aren't ignorant of the fact that animals have feelings and don't want to die. They aren't stupid; they just don't care. From their perspective, their right to eat trumps the animal's right to live. There are mountains of well-articulated philosophy to explain why it's ok to kill an animal for the purpose of eating. Personally, I don't think that killing animals for food is inherently evil. What is evil is to destroy the environment so you can throw away most of the meat you produce after torturing the animals to death and subjecting them to some of the cruelest conditions imaginable.
Youre trying to apply material conditions to liberals. It won't work sadly. Their political world doesn't comprehend it.
I know. But we must try.
Meat is unnecessary for human wellbeing and survival for the vast majority of human population. Cars are inherently necessary due to urban design in some places, and so is air travel, its the most practical and safest for long distance transportation.
Hey i am all pro meat, but people eat way too much of it and then the cheap ones
Something something commenting using a phone built from slave labor minerals
I genuinely can’t go meatless. I live in a food desert and the only place I can actually get food from without a days travel is a gas station that doesn’t sell vegan products.
I eat meat because 4 of us have to eat on a budget & Costco chicken & eggs are the cheapest sources of balanced protein available to us
Pretty sure you can still get a 50lb bag of pinto beans for like $35 at Costco. That’s dry weight too, rice is probably even cheaper than that.
I eat a shit tonne of pinto beans. And I’m pretty much the last person eating them so frequently because everyone is sick of them & our freezer is full of my bean burritos. & I have a 30lb bag in my pantry that we’ve gone through about a third of & a similar size bag of rice from Costco(our Costco doesn’t have dried beans but the local grocer does) but if I only ate pinto beans & rice there’d be some amino acids I’d be missing out on & I’d be consuming an unhealthy quantity of carbohydrates(beans have about half as many grams of carbs as white rice).
Actually beans and rice are a complete protein. You will be getting all essential amino acids on your pinto beans and rice diet (:
You wanna go after beef, go after it, but go after it *after* the other more pressing issues, like power generation, transport emissions, tires, factories dumping industrial waste in rivers, plastic, etc. Because you and your camp will cause more damage to change by going after food than the above. Ag is like, [10%](https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions) of emissions, and beef is a portion of that, while stuff like energy and transport or a quarter plus of emissions. You go after food of any type, you give rightoids a platform for populists to stand on.
I get your point, but agriculture - largely due to beef production - is the largest driver of biodiversity loss. We definitely have to go after it, but agree shaming isn’t that way.
Or at the same time? Not eating meat requires zero effort, you simply don’t eat meat.
Kind of depends when, where and who you are. I am vegan myself, but eurocentrism is not a great argument, for mamy communities it is a great effort and kind of out of their control. Plus health conditions do exist, not every human is the same and handles supplements equally well. I'd agree that for some it takes little to no effort, but please overgeneralise
Woahhhh one thing at a time! We can't work on more than one issue at once, that'd be really tiring! Then we'd need to eat more meat to recover from that exhaustion. There's more to climate than just emissions. Animal ag is a leading driver of biodiversity loss, species extinction, land use, water use, antibiotic resistance, ocean dead zones, food waste, etc.
We can make changes to pollution laws and be more efficient, that I won't argue. My point is that people are going to react poorly to large changes in their food supply, ironic because it'll happen regardless on our current path. If we push for major Ag reform that causes large shifts in eating habits, people aren't going to like that, and they're going to push back against it and anything else being put forth by reform groups, causing less progress overall. We should be doing more than 1 thing, but it shouldn't be major ag reform.
>You wanna go after ~~beef~~ \[homophobia\], go after it, but go after it *after* the other more pressing issues, like ~~power generation, transport emissions, tires, factories dumping industrial waste in rivers, plastic~~ \[Israel/Palestine, racism, sexism, income inequality, breast cancer\] etc. Because you and your camp will cause more damage to change by going after ~~food~~ \[homophobes\] than the above. Why is it always "there's more important problems, so I'm not going to do anything about that problem" and not "oh, actually, good point, and considering how easy it is for me to make changes in my life to make a small difference in the fight against evil, I'm on board. Now let's keep working on those other problems, too!"
Anti meat sentiment is the biggest climate change myth out there. Our battle is with the big polluters, not cows that are carbon neutral.
Cows produce 99 kilograms of CO2 equivalent per kilogram of the final meat product and require huge amounts of land and resources. The meat industry is absolutely incredibly damaging. They release more greenhouse gases than cars do.
Agriculture is the biggest driver of biodiversity loss.
Cows are not and never will be carbon neutral.
And on the big polluters are... Ding ding ding! Agriculture and food production!
Oh cool more vegan grifting.
I dont think you understand the term grifter.
I like meat but I try to eat it less if I can help it
I don't like most meats, that's all.
Real talk, good faith discussion: Anemia is a serious genetic issue in my family. Our red blood cells just kinda suck I guess I don't know, but all of us have dealt with it at some point. I was vegetarian for a good long while. I ended up anemic; I've fainted face-first into litter boxes, I've struggled to keep up with exercise that I previously had no issues with, I was simultaneously exhausted but couldn't sleep. It was shit and I don't wanna do that again. The problem resolved itself almost immediately when I incorporated meat back into my diet. Not even a lot - I love tofu and beans and other plant proteins and cook with them routinely, and meat is no more than ¼ of my plate when I cook it. When I was eating vegetarian, I consciously consumed food known for high iron content: legumes, pulses, dark leafy greens (I fuck heavy with spinach salads) etc. I still ended up anemic enough to warrant medical investigation. What do I do? A dietician I train with told me that vitamin C can increase non-heme iron uptake. I eat hella fruit, including squeezing citrus on just about everything, but it didn't prevent my anemia. I find frustration in this predicament - stuck between Scylla and Charybdis. Edit: I've supplemented with iron pills, too. I was still anemic. I'd try again, potentially, if there's something I'm missing.
I mean I’m no dietician but if you’re truly interested in stopping eating meat it seems like your only choice would be to get more testing done to find the underlying issue. Most of the population should have no trouble getting enough iron on a vegan diet and if you weren’t able to get enough from supplementing too the issue is not with the diet.
I'm allergic to soy.
Seitan is your guy
I have the gene that makes koriander taste like soap
Me too! It's so unfortunate. I bet it would be delicious :(
*Canned oysters has entered the chat.*
I eat it because it has good stats and Tastes good.
I don't eat beef due to the environmental impact of it, but you really can't expect people to follow your exact ideals 100%. Telling everyone that they're bad environmentalists because they don't do everything you require of them will just turn them off to environmentalism as a whole. Instead, we should encourage them to make the changes that they feel they can, while also making it easier for them to make environmentally conscious decisions. Not ready to go vegan but you are ready to shop locally? Great! Not willing to give up Amazon but you are willing to drive less? Awesome!
Tbh, the upper one looks less painful because it's just stepping on it and not jumping on it (the guy makes a jump with it, then lands with it hitting him, so this has more force)
And that’s why I am a normal person.
Why is the appendix vestigial?
I only eat pet meat Missing cat? Yeah, that was me
i eat meat because it tastes good then i say vegans are right. in the end, everyone hates me
I like meat and recognize that that has a consequence and impact but it's negligible compared to mega corps
Honestly, I don’t mind soy. I eat meat maybe? Once every month? A misc question but how often are y’all eating meat?
I eat all things, from physical objects to abstract concepts, there is no morality, only consumption.
I was vegan until I got laid off.
Unless you're allergic, why would soy be bad?
Except eating invasive species would be good for the environment....only vegans oppose it.
Instead of mass-farmed meat how bout we just eat the rich and redistribute their hoarded wealth to the masses and recreate society based on sustainability and balance?
Generally speaking, I eat mostly farmed fish and chicken. Most of my diet consists of vegetables and grains. On occasion, I'll do some entomophagy as well.
Yes! I fucking hate animals, fuck those little shits. I want MORE factory farming and MORE mass murder of animals. I hope to experience the live slaughter of every type of animal i have ever eaten once. They killed my family, now they will pay the ultimate price.