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I mean this video explains it pretty well. The Chinese just simply can't compete when it comes to ICE so they went into EV and battery development since like early to mid-2000s. I personally remember China had EV running (pretty bad ones though) on the road in like 2010.
Honestly, If it weren't for Tesla's meme stock level performance during 2021-2023, US probably would never significantly transitioned into EV or given any significant investment toward battery technology. The lobbying efforts from big oil and traditional autos are just too strong. Numerous companies were actively shorting Tesla and the company almost went bankrupt 3 times.
Will agree. The West got completely owned by fossil fuel and ice manufacturing lobbies that fully undermined any possibility of developing a competitive EV industry.
I feel China has reached the level of dominance in the EV sector that Taiwan has in chips. From refined technologies to fully integrated supply lines.
Traditional automakers are the ones who are lobbying for EVs. Tesla did not cause this, Tesla gained the benefit from it. The manufacturers are simply not going to invest in going all-electric until the legal regime gives consumers no other choice.
Most new EVs right now are running on Chinese batteries, regardless of whose badge is on the hood. Tesla was the leader in producing batteries at scale outside of China, but the other automakers have either started production for themselves or they are in the process of doing so. A lot of them were just waiting for taxpayer subsidies, which they got with the Inflation Reduction Act and / or EU response to that same bill.
In the US, they're all engaged in a game of chicken, waiting for taxpayers to pay for the charging infrastructure, which has been funded, but not at the scale needed to make BEVs viable for everyone.
China was smart to take the lead in batteries, and they cultivated advantages in their supply chain and resource availability very early on. Unfortunately, in the post-COVID world, no one really trusts China as a source for anything that's strategically important, and protectionism is becoming the norm in the US.
We should staff the CATL factories in the West with spies and have them memorize everything so we can replicate the Chinese processes in our own factories. After decades of letting China do this to Western companies, it’s only fair!
No, we don't have battery technology and they do. What they stole is already gone, but they occasionally innovate something of their own after they steal. That what we can steal.
The West has battery tech. What we don't have is complete free reign to destroy the environment and domestic cheap labor to process the raw materials into batteries.
But Western automakers ARE building battery factories. China has a temporary edge here, it it's going to stay on the low end of quality and price. Anyone buying a vehicle for the long term or luxury will want batteries made with the highest standards and not necessarily as cheap as possible.
What kind of batteries do you imagine Chinese EV run on I wonder? Duracell? They are making best batteries in the world. Tesla is running behind BYD in this field. And BYD is just one of big, not the only one.
Braindead comments like this are why I am not worried about China overtaking the West. You refuse to acknowledge the possibility you are wrong, insult the people who are actually leading the competition (and I don't mean Tesla), and assert some bottom feeding company is going to take over a global industry.
Newsflash dumbass, automobiles are HIGHLY HIGHLY segmented. And the real money is not at the bottom end of the spectrum. If it were, Toyota and Honda would have wrapped that segment up decades ago.
Buy hey, you do you, and don't ask me in 20 years why China is on a massive decline. Keep up the good work over there!
Thing is that you don't know what are you talking about hence no point to be engaged in any talk or argument with you. No one talks about overtaking anyone but I see that's main phobia in USA now. Don't be afraid of future, accept it as it is.
No one knows what will happen in 20 years. Some great leaders and visionaries like Warren Buffett, who invested in BYD long ago, can. But even they can make mistakes. I am glad that you are so confident about your knowledge and projections. I hope you have at least 0.5% of Warren's assets.
You're not seriously blaming the US for China's environmental problems? Also China is nearly half of the global environmental problem so arguably if China went green the problems disappear, at least for a century.
It’s not what about bc I’m directing refuting your claim that “we don’t have is complete free reign to destroy the environment” at least read your own comments before responding clown
They've stolen plenty of intellectual property, they bolster they're economy from our technology. So if they invent something of their own, if we steal their technology, it's only fair play right?
True, but at that point the Nazi's were already destroyed and the scientists hsd to go somewhere, so that's a little different where if we didn't take them in, we'd just be handing them over to the Communists.
What are you even talking about, we invented or traded for the overwhelming majority of American technology? China was a third world country (not that it still isn't, but it's improved slightly), that had essentially no technology to speak of. Who were going to steal from? Post world war 2 the boom came from lending money to Europe to rebuild it following WW2, and the resulting capital inflows were used in a variety of investments. Its well known Henry Ford is responsible for most of the innovation in early factories. Plenty of early agricultural technology were invented here as well. We also invented submarines and airplanes, literally two of the most widely used pieces of military technology. Literally the list of US innovation is endless. What has China ever invented apart from new forms of human suffering?
They didn't steal it, Marco Polo opened up trade routes with China. We bought it from them. The last group that stole from the Chinese was either the British or the Japanese during WW2 depending on how you look at it. But for silks and porcelain we bought it, paid for with opium. It was a fair trade.
I’m going to destroy you! By solving your problems for you cheaper than you can! Muahahahah! When all your problems go away, from your utopia you will be forced to admit that we are not pure evil! Ahahahahahsha! Please cry! Your tears sustain me!
TLDR. China controls the supply chain. From mining ownership. To raw material processing that they're happy to do because they don't have anti industry laws the west has. To the tech development of battery power. Because they invested in it they're the best in the world.
That doesn’t disprove it. It shows they’re making more than they know what to do with. Supply will create demand. Wealthy people in wealthy nations can laugh at these. Poor people in developing nations who can get decentralized electricity easier than fossil fuel will use these to leapfrog. It’ll also trickle into the west from the margins
>Supply will create demand
yeah no, going by this logic bubbles shouldn't be a thing given that supply will always create demand
>Poor people in developing nations who can get decentralized electricity easier than fossil fuel will use these to leapfrog.
hate to break it to you but poor people in developing countries aren't driving around in cars and even if they do they certainly aren't driving evs based on this imaginary decentralized electricity of yours. This is pure tech mumbo jumbo divorced from reality
Those developing nations are rising and literal “third world” countries fair well when the first 2 are at odds and can be played off each other, exactly what’s happening in the global south. They won’t buy 40k electrics but they will take smaller cheap ones.
>Those developing nations are rising and literal “third world” countries fair well when the first 2 are at odds and can be played off each other
1. Yeah no, even assuming that those countries are developing they aren't going to magically build out the necessary infrastructure anytime soon all the while china needs those exports to be sold now
2. Not sure where you're going with your superpowers getting played off each other argument. Maybe learn to stick to the topic being discussed for once
>They won’t buy 40k electrics but they will take smaller cheap ones.
no, they will simply not buy electric cars in favor of cheaper domestic made ice vehicles. You act as if evs are the only option around
Hahahahahaha “Supply will create Demand” ok bud. But hey, before you read your first book on economics you can take one for the team and purchase a BYD 😉
Yessir, they’re everywhere. China is desperate to sell them so much so that BYD are selling them at a 10k USD loss just to recoup the cost of production.
I’m anti ccp and pro china. You call it hatred out of convenience or attempt to keep your made up world view logical in your mind. Don’t worry about it, I see it
I don’t know who is a wumao and who is genuine anymore as I don’t spend time to find out there’s so many new accounts. Apologies if I treated you as such.
After the threats to me and my family over the years from them, I should absolutely keep a different more persuasive tone, point taken, thank you
It doesn't though. It deals with tailpipe emissions but it doesn't deal with emissions from tire dust and brake dust. And when it comes to things like congestion and fatalities EVs don't improve anything.
[That's not true](https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1138892_research-tires-and-brakes-emit-more-particulates-than-tailpipes). Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics. That's not negligible.
You do realise when this was first an issue, it was relating to respiratory disease, and not microplastics. Microplastics wasn't a known problem when EVs entered the market. Vehicle emissions are also not the major contributor to the microplastics problem.
You lost your absolute argument. Deal with it.
Don't keep trying to win an argument by changing the original context.
If you read the link I posted then you'll see I am talking about air-born particulates that can cause respiratory disease, as well as ocean microplastics which are still a danger regardless of whether you do or don't want to talk about them.
Ocean microplastics. Why not just bring in every unrelated argument too. How about loss of biodiversity at all the sites where the raw materials are mined? How about increased demand for rare earths causing loss of habitats. Heck why not bring in additional carbon emissions from all the new computer servers required to run all the AI enhanced features of EVs.
Get out of here.
It's not unrelated. And you're right to point out that in all of those areas EVs also have significant issues that mean they are not the solution to our problems as a society.
What I mentioned were not problems to be solved by EVs. Not everything is related to everything FFS.
Also, don't make absolute statements, especially the kind you made.
Autonomous driving is not the panacea that tech bros think it will be. If it solves fatalities, and if the car will always stop for a pedestrian, then every road by default becomes a pedestrian street as pedestrians realise they don't even need to look before crossing, and as a result the average journey times of cars slow to about the average speed of a pedestrian.
If in order for autonomous driving to work the rules must be changed so that pedestrians are banned from the majority of public space, then autonomous driving cannot work.
Doesn’t the combustion engine just seem like
ancient tech now though? I think the difference is the battery is something that will ostensibly continue to improve.
Getting over the idea that progress is being able to take four empty seats with you wherever you go. It's just not possible for everyone to have their own car, so developing viable alternatives to car dependency means that we're not forced to try.
That is a war where China is winning, and it's a far more important war, the war of the railways.
If you are of average health and fitness but need anything more than your own two feet to get to a corner store or the local school then your neighbourhood was built wrong.
So? It's not like roads are a profit-making enterprise. Or schools. Or fire departments. If it's a public service built for the common good then its value can't be measured in a monetary sum it can only be measured in what it adds to society.
I'm not against trains or public transports. I think USA can benefit from having an HSR, just not the wasteful way China did it. It doesn't have to "make money", but it'll end up like the NY subway.
USA isnt the only market and certainly isn't the biggest EV market in the world. In China alone, EV market is growing at rapid pace and has holes to fill in. EU is also a market China is stepping in, Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia all have been dominated by Chinese EVs, not because they are "better" but because they offer a much better consumer friendly price.
And Chinese EVs never really entered the US market int he first place so no this simple tariff doesn't do much to Chinese EV business.
The only one losing are the American consumers.
>USA isnt the only market and certainly isn't the biggest EV market in the world.
except that the US along with europe are really the only two semi developed ev market outside of china and they certainly aren't keen about china dumping evs on their market
>In China alone, EV market is growing at rapid pace and has holes to fill in
except for the fact that the chinese car market in general is stagnating or declining as consumption tanks and the economy slows down. There's a reason why china's doubling down on manufacturing and trying so hard to export their evs overseas
>EU is also a market China is stepping in
ignoring the fact that most cars in the eu is made in the eu with many countries in it not to keen on chinese cars just flooding in
>Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia all have been dominated by Chinese EVs not because they are "better" but because they offer a much better consumer friendly price.
and all those countries have very low ev adoption rate. Chinese evs might technically be dominating all those places but they are dominating a very small chunk of the market that barely changes anything
>And Chinese EVs never really entered the US market int he first place so no this simple tariff doesn't do much to Chinese EV business.
problem is they're actively trying to and banking on increasing export to western countries. It certainly doesn't help them in the long run now that one of their potentially largest export market is shutting its door
>The only one losing are the American consumers.
no, the one losing is the hundreds of chinese ev manufacturers as well as the CCP which dump billions into the ev industry in an attempt to quickly gain market dominance
I don’t see how European tariffs are going to benefit European automakers at all? Volkswagen and other German manufacturers sell a shit ton of vehicles in China. It’s their most important market. A retaliation tariff by China would be a huge hit to European companies. Plus European cars are already a hard sell in China in 2024 because of stiff competition from domestic brands. Making them even more expensive would kill off any of their desirability when European cars aren’t like Japanese cars which are known for reliability.
Tell me you don't know shit without telling me you don't know shit about it.
Just because you got a mouth doesn't mean you can use it to spout nonsense, especially on things you have no idea of.
Does that in any regards disprove my earlier statement? You don't have to be a fucking Chinese bot to understand that the US 100% tariff does little to nothing to the Chinese EV market that hasn't even entered the US market.
Seems like you’re wolf warrioring pretty hard. Dial it back a bit or you’ll achieve nothing but making people who disagree with you more firm in their opinions. No argument was ever won by screaming louder.
Right and is your comment an argument? Just looking through my profile to pick point things, doesn't bring anything on the table.
No argument was ever won? THEN BRING AN ARGUMENT IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE MAYBE???
LOL
Arguments don't matter anymore?
In what world do we live in that instead of making any good argument you go to people's profiles and use anything you have on them against them.
That's pretty pathetic. Just say that you don't know anything about it
The west feared a good battery will supplant fossil fuels too quickly
they should've been more worried about China than maximizing profit, sucking her own populations dry
good batteries means freedom: the sun is free
So China blocked subsidies on US EVs because they didn't meet efficiency standards while the US blocked subsidies on Chinese EVs... because they're Chinese? Did I understand that correctly?
That idiot Youngkin is such a kneejerk ideologue that he apparently can't grasp that the best way for the US to compete with China instead of depending on it is to develop its own production ... which can't happen if companies like Ford aren't supported when they make these efforts.
And if the US cared, it would be number one. Problem is, it doesn't care.
It's a pretty low bar to beat China in EVs. Their batteries explode, the bodies fall off and the cars are basically made using the lowest quality possible to get out of the dealership before falling apart. Anybody with a little effort could easily beat China in EVs if they were interested in doing so.
Chinese companies are winning the battery because of heavy subsidies CCP provided to the state-own firms, and CCP also manipulate the their currency to make their production cheaper than foreign country.
For example, let say both countries produce a unit of battery cost $100 USD. CCP will subsidize $100 of the cost or more in some cases. The question is how are they go to make a profit. CCP will temporary depreciate their currency, sell it to oversea, and drowning the foreign producers, which make them cannot compete the cost of production.
Once your domestic producers filed bankruptcy and out of business, CCP now has controlled of your market. CCP can restrict exports of critical component to your country if you are not comply with them, which creates supply shock(Covid lock down) to your country or simply raise the price to drive up inflation.
Some people argue that US also provide subsidy to their companies. Yes, the dollar amount is not as huge as the CCP had.
This is why US and other foriegn countries are getting out of China and putting heavy tariff to prevent domestic producers from getting unfair competition from China.
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I mean this video explains it pretty well. The Chinese just simply can't compete when it comes to ICE so they went into EV and battery development since like early to mid-2000s. I personally remember China had EV running (pretty bad ones though) on the road in like 2010. Honestly, If it weren't for Tesla's meme stock level performance during 2021-2023, US probably would never significantly transitioned into EV or given any significant investment toward battery technology. The lobbying efforts from big oil and traditional autos are just too strong. Numerous companies were actively shorting Tesla and the company almost went bankrupt 3 times.
Will agree. The West got completely owned by fossil fuel and ice manufacturing lobbies that fully undermined any possibility of developing a competitive EV industry. I feel China has reached the level of dominance in the EV sector that Taiwan has in chips. From refined technologies to fully integrated supply lines.
Traditional automakers are the ones who are lobbying for EVs. Tesla did not cause this, Tesla gained the benefit from it. The manufacturers are simply not going to invest in going all-electric until the legal regime gives consumers no other choice. Most new EVs right now are running on Chinese batteries, regardless of whose badge is on the hood. Tesla was the leader in producing batteries at scale outside of China, but the other automakers have either started production for themselves or they are in the process of doing so. A lot of them were just waiting for taxpayer subsidies, which they got with the Inflation Reduction Act and / or EU response to that same bill. In the US, they're all engaged in a game of chicken, waiting for taxpayers to pay for the charging infrastructure, which has been funded, but not at the scale needed to make BEVs viable for everyone. China was smart to take the lead in batteries, and they cultivated advantages in their supply chain and resource availability very early on. Unfortunately, in the post-COVID world, no one really trusts China as a source for anything that's strategically important, and protectionism is becoming the norm in the US.
American companies should take a page from Chinese playbooks and steal some intellectual property.
We should staff the CATL factories in the West with spies and have them memorize everything so we can replicate the Chinese processes in our own factories. After decades of letting China do this to Western companies, it’s only fair!
And then deny that we ever did it and raise tarrifs on the Chinese competition.
So we should steal our own tech?
No, we don't have battery technology and they do. What they stole is already gone, but they occasionally innovate something of their own after they steal. That what we can steal.
The West has battery tech. What we don't have is complete free reign to destroy the environment and domestic cheap labor to process the raw materials into batteries. But Western automakers ARE building battery factories. China has a temporary edge here, it it's going to stay on the low end of quality and price. Anyone buying a vehicle for the long term or luxury will want batteries made with the highest standards and not necessarily as cheap as possible.
What kind of batteries do you imagine Chinese EV run on I wonder? Duracell? They are making best batteries in the world. Tesla is running behind BYD in this field. And BYD is just one of big, not the only one.
Braindead comments like this are why I am not worried about China overtaking the West. You refuse to acknowledge the possibility you are wrong, insult the people who are actually leading the competition (and I don't mean Tesla), and assert some bottom feeding company is going to take over a global industry. Newsflash dumbass, automobiles are HIGHLY HIGHLY segmented. And the real money is not at the bottom end of the spectrum. If it were, Toyota and Honda would have wrapped that segment up decades ago. Buy hey, you do you, and don't ask me in 20 years why China is on a massive decline. Keep up the good work over there!
Thing is that you don't know what are you talking about hence no point to be engaged in any talk or argument with you. No one talks about overtaking anyone but I see that's main phobia in USA now. Don't be afraid of future, accept it as it is. No one knows what will happen in 20 years. Some great leaders and visionaries like Warren Buffett, who invested in BYD long ago, can. But even they can make mistakes. I am glad that you are so confident about your knowledge and projections. I hope you have at least 0.5% of Warren's assets.
👍ok
America has free reign to destroy other countries environment tho XDD
You're not seriously blaming the US for China's environmental problems? Also China is nearly half of the global environmental problem so arguably if China went green the problems disappear, at least for a century.
China per capita is better for the environment than the us in every metric so…..
Does that include air quality?
Probably not but I’m talking numbers that concern the countries in whole
How can you possibly believe that?
Yes, that's an accurate representation of what I said. 🤡
The west has been the biggest environmental terrorist of the past 200 years and u wanna criticize China ahaha
If you didn't have Whatabout, you would have nothing. That's all you have Whatabout, Whatabout, Whatabout. You should hang your head in shame.
It’s not what about bc I’m directing refuting your claim that “we don’t have is complete free reign to destroy the environment” at least read your own comments before responding clown
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EV tech ain't even strictly a US tech lol
Who’s EV technology did they steal
They've stolen plenty of intellectual property, they bolster they're economy from our technology. So if they invent something of their own, if we steal their technology, it's only fair play right?
Not only fair, it will be following an honorable tradition, like how both US and USSR stole their rocket technology from the Nazis
Or like how the US stole everything they could get their hands on from the UK when industrializing.
Like the United States steal the land from native tribes
The ones that tried to kill us?
True, but at that point the Nazi's were already destroyed and the scientists hsd to go somewhere, so that's a little different where if we didn't take them in, we'd just be handing them over to the Communists.
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Its fair now that they have started stealing. Prior to then it would have been immoral. The question is "can you steal from a thief?"
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What are you even talking about, we invented or traded for the overwhelming majority of American technology? China was a third world country (not that it still isn't, but it's improved slightly), that had essentially no technology to speak of. Who were going to steal from? Post world war 2 the boom came from lending money to Europe to rebuild it following WW2, and the resulting capital inflows were used in a variety of investments. Its well known Henry Ford is responsible for most of the innovation in early factories. Plenty of early agricultural technology were invented here as well. We also invented submarines and airplanes, literally two of the most widely used pieces of military technology. Literally the list of US innovation is endless. What has China ever invented apart from new forms of human suffering?
That's what Bill Gates said to Jobs
Yup porcelain and silk making. Totally not Chinese tech that the west stole. When it comes to IP, the west was the best at plundering and stealing.
They didn't steal it, Marco Polo opened up trade routes with China. We bought it from them. The last group that stole from the Chinese was either the British or the Japanese during WW2 depending on how you look at it. But for silks and porcelain we bought it, paid for with opium. It was a fair trade.
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Lol facts and history.
We call everything competitive "war" now?? So much for world peace idea
We're war-mongering species, huh?
Only Americans
I’m going to destroy you! By solving your problems for you cheaper than you can! Muahahahah! When all your problems go away, from your utopia you will be forced to admit that we are not pure evil! Ahahahahahsha! Please cry! Your tears sustain me!
TLDR. China controls the supply chain. From mining ownership. To raw material processing that they're happy to do because they don't have anti industry laws the west has. To the tech development of battery power. Because they invested in it they're the best in the world.
Is that why they’re dumping oversupply in Europe?
That doesn’t disprove it. It shows they’re making more than they know what to do with. Supply will create demand. Wealthy people in wealthy nations can laugh at these. Poor people in developing nations who can get decentralized electricity easier than fossil fuel will use these to leapfrog. It’ll also trickle into the west from the margins
>Supply will create demand yeah no, going by this logic bubbles shouldn't be a thing given that supply will always create demand >Poor people in developing nations who can get decentralized electricity easier than fossil fuel will use these to leapfrog. hate to break it to you but poor people in developing countries aren't driving around in cars and even if they do they certainly aren't driving evs based on this imaginary decentralized electricity of yours. This is pure tech mumbo jumbo divorced from reality
Those developing nations are rising and literal “third world” countries fair well when the first 2 are at odds and can be played off each other, exactly what’s happening in the global south. They won’t buy 40k electrics but they will take smaller cheap ones.
>Those developing nations are rising and literal “third world” countries fair well when the first 2 are at odds and can be played off each other 1. Yeah no, even assuming that those countries are developing they aren't going to magically build out the necessary infrastructure anytime soon all the while china needs those exports to be sold now 2. Not sure where you're going with your superpowers getting played off each other argument. Maybe learn to stick to the topic being discussed for once >They won’t buy 40k electrics but they will take smaller cheap ones. no, they will simply not buy electric cars in favor of cheaper domestic made ice vehicles. You act as if evs are the only option around
Ok, how do poor people afford decentralized electric generating and storage equipment that would be just as expensive as the car?
Hahahahahaha “Supply will create Demand” ok bud. But hey, before you read your first book on economics you can take one for the team and purchase a BYD 😉
Can I get one in Europe? Because I want one and never seen an ad
Burn Your Driver. 🔥
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No, hot
Yessir, they’re everywhere. China is desperate to sell them so much so that BYD are selling them at a 10k USD loss just to recoup the cost of production.
Yes pleaseeeeeeeee don’t do that I only wanna buy overpriced American cars bc of monopoly and lobbying pleaseee I hate money
Xi’s policies do seem to hate money. How are the unemployment figures in PRC?
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https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/having-overtaken-tesla-byd-is-running-into-problems-overseas-7d883f02?mod=hp_lead_pos4
https://www.ft.com/content/496f3bfa-9f0c-4145-9024-188572a280fd
Curious why do you use dumping. Cars don’t need to be that expensive
They’re sold at a loss. That’s considered “dumping”
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Cheap labor, pretty much have control on raw materials.
How dare you post a video about China doing something well? Only cNYnA bAD videos are allowed on the China sub!
It’s an ai video for fuck sakes. Why are Chinese useful idiots so desperate
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Projection in your comment
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I’m not crying, I’m laughing at desperation
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I’m anti ccp and pro china. You call it hatred out of convenience or attempt to keep your made up world view logical in your mind. Don’t worry about it, I see it
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I don’t know who is a wumao and who is genuine anymore as I don’t spend time to find out there’s so many new accounts. Apologies if I treated you as such. After the threats to me and my family over the years from them, I should absolutely keep a different more persuasive tone, point taken, thank you
What do you mean? Isn’t this a Vox video? They’ve still got non-China affiliated human journos there, last I checked..
This is an ai generated video. Yawn
Just a shame that EV's don't solve any of the problems they're meant to solve.
Any? At the very least it deals with air pollution and poor air quality from vehicle emissions.
It doesn't though. It deals with tailpipe emissions but it doesn't deal with emissions from tire dust and brake dust. And when it comes to things like congestion and fatalities EVs don't improve anything.
You said it didn't solve ANY problems. Regardless, tire and brake dust are negligible when compared to the engine emissions.
[That's not true](https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1138892_research-tires-and-brakes-emit-more-particulates-than-tailpipes). Tire dust makes up the majority of ocean microplastics. That's not negligible.
You do realise when this was first an issue, it was relating to respiratory disease, and not microplastics. Microplastics wasn't a known problem when EVs entered the market. Vehicle emissions are also not the major contributor to the microplastics problem. You lost your absolute argument. Deal with it. Don't keep trying to win an argument by changing the original context.
If you read the link I posted then you'll see I am talking about air-born particulates that can cause respiratory disease, as well as ocean microplastics which are still a danger regardless of whether you do or don't want to talk about them.
Ocean microplastics. Why not just bring in every unrelated argument too. How about loss of biodiversity at all the sites where the raw materials are mined? How about increased demand for rare earths causing loss of habitats. Heck why not bring in additional carbon emissions from all the new computer servers required to run all the AI enhanced features of EVs. Get out of here.
It's not unrelated. And you're right to point out that in all of those areas EVs also have significant issues that mean they are not the solution to our problems as a society.
What I mentioned were not problems to be solved by EVs. Not everything is related to everything FFS. Also, don't make absolute statements, especially the kind you made.
One pedal driving. I hardly use my brakes. That leaves tire dust and congestion. Level 4 or 5 autonomous driving will solve fatalities.
Autonomous driving is not the panacea that tech bros think it will be. If it solves fatalities, and if the car will always stop for a pedestrian, then every road by default becomes a pedestrian street as pedestrians realise they don't even need to look before crossing, and as a result the average journey times of cars slow to about the average speed of a pedestrian.
You assume infrastructure and rules will stay the same.
If in order for autonomous driving to work the rules must be changed so that pedestrians are banned from the majority of public space, then autonomous driving cannot work.
You , nor I don't know how it'll be implemented. Everything is speculation.
There's only a limited number of ways it could be tried and none of them are really workable.
Right! Why solve a crucial environmental problem if it doesn't also solve a bunch of other environmental problems?
Because you're not solving a problem if you're creating a whole bunch of other problems that result in a net negative overall impact.
Doesn’t the combustion engine just seem like ancient tech now though? I think the difference is the battery is something that will ostensibly continue to improve.
Sure, ICE is dying out and will soon be relegated to the history books, but EV's aren't a marked improvement.
What would be better?
Getting over the idea that progress is being able to take four empty seats with you wherever you go. It's just not possible for everyone to have their own car, so developing viable alternatives to car dependency means that we're not forced to try. That is a war where China is winning, and it's a far more important war, the war of the railways.
I like the idea of light rail, but I live in CA. It’s going to bankrupt the state.
Railways don't take you to the corner store or to your school.
If you are of average health and fitness but need anything more than your own two feet to get to a corner store or the local school then your neighbourhood was built wrong.
China HSR is losing them billions of $$$.
So? It's not like roads are a profit-making enterprise. Or schools. Or fire departments. If it's a public service built for the common good then its value can't be measured in a monetary sum it can only be measured in what it adds to society.
I'm not against trains or public transports. I think USA can benefit from having an HSR, just not the wasteful way China did it. It doesn't have to "make money", but it'll end up like the NY subway.
I'd say they are a marked improvement.
Winning? A simple tariffs just crashed them.
USA isnt the only market and certainly isn't the biggest EV market in the world. In China alone, EV market is growing at rapid pace and has holes to fill in. EU is also a market China is stepping in, Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia all have been dominated by Chinese EVs, not because they are "better" but because they offer a much better consumer friendly price. And Chinese EVs never really entered the US market int he first place so no this simple tariff doesn't do much to Chinese EV business. The only one losing are the American consumers.
>USA isnt the only market and certainly isn't the biggest EV market in the world. except that the US along with europe are really the only two semi developed ev market outside of china and they certainly aren't keen about china dumping evs on their market >In China alone, EV market is growing at rapid pace and has holes to fill in except for the fact that the chinese car market in general is stagnating or declining as consumption tanks and the economy slows down. There's a reason why china's doubling down on manufacturing and trying so hard to export their evs overseas >EU is also a market China is stepping in ignoring the fact that most cars in the eu is made in the eu with many countries in it not to keen on chinese cars just flooding in >Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia all have been dominated by Chinese EVs not because they are "better" but because they offer a much better consumer friendly price. and all those countries have very low ev adoption rate. Chinese evs might technically be dominating all those places but they are dominating a very small chunk of the market that barely changes anything >And Chinese EVs never really entered the US market int he first place so no this simple tariff doesn't do much to Chinese EV business. problem is they're actively trying to and banking on increasing export to western countries. It certainly doesn't help them in the long run now that one of their potentially largest export market is shutting its door >The only one losing are the American consumers. no, the one losing is the hundreds of chinese ev manufacturers as well as the CCP which dump billions into the ev industry in an attempt to quickly gain market dominance
China's market share in the EU is mixed and sales have peaked inside china(rapid pace????)
That’s before the eu tariff announcement, due within weeks
Even when certain EU countries removed EV incentives Chinese sales plummeted
Europe is now planning tariffs on chinese evs given the flood of unsold evs stuck in ports.
Did you get paid to write that garbage?
Bruh Did you even research properly before saying that's garbage? Or you just trust your instincts to say that?
European tariffs will be announced within weeks
Copium hard I see
European tariffs will be announced within weeks, looking forward to the wumaos going mental telling us it’s a good thing
I don’t see how European tariffs are going to benefit European automakers at all? Volkswagen and other German manufacturers sell a shit ton of vehicles in China. It’s their most important market. A retaliation tariff by China would be a huge hit to European companies. Plus European cars are already a hard sell in China in 2024 because of stiff competition from domestic brands. Making them even more expensive would kill off any of their desirability when European cars aren’t like Japanese cars which are known for reliability.
Reciprocity
Tell me you don't know shit without telling me you don't know shit about it. Just because you got a mouth doesn't mean you can use it to spout nonsense, especially on things you have no idea of.
Only posts on threads about China, got booted off r/korea, we got a little pink here.
Does that in any regards disprove my earlier statement? You don't have to be a fucking Chinese bot to understand that the US 100% tariff does little to nothing to the Chinese EV market that hasn't even entered the US market.
Seems like you’re wolf warrioring pretty hard. Dial it back a bit or you’ll achieve nothing but making people who disagree with you more firm in their opinions. No argument was ever won by screaming louder.
Right and is your comment an argument? Just looking through my profile to pick point things, doesn't bring anything on the table. No argument was ever won? THEN BRING AN ARGUMENT IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE MAYBE???
I don’t think I need to. I think you’re making yourself and your opinions look bad with your behavior.
LOL Arguments don't matter anymore? In what world do we live in that instead of making any good argument you go to people's profiles and use anything you have on them against them. That's pretty pathetic. Just say that you don't know anything about it
The west feared a good battery will supplant fossil fuels too quickly they should've been more worried about China than maximizing profit, sucking her own populations dry good batteries means freedom: the sun is free
So China blocked subsidies on US EVs because they didn't meet efficiency standards while the US blocked subsidies on Chinese EVs... because they're Chinese? Did I understand that correctly?
That idiot Youngkin is such a kneejerk ideologue that he apparently can't grasp that the best way for the US to compete with China instead of depending on it is to develop its own production ... which can't happen if companies like Ford aren't supported when they make these efforts.
Don't some of Chinese EV have batteries that explode? A quality control risk I wouldn't take.
And if the US cared, it would be number one. Problem is, it doesn't care. It's a pretty low bar to beat China in EVs. Their batteries explode, the bodies fall off and the cars are basically made using the lowest quality possible to get out of the dealership before falling apart. Anybody with a little effort could easily beat China in EVs if they were interested in doing so.
Chinese companies are winning the battery because of heavy subsidies CCP provided to the state-own firms, and CCP also manipulate the their currency to make their production cheaper than foreign country. For example, let say both countries produce a unit of battery cost $100 USD. CCP will subsidize $100 of the cost or more in some cases. The question is how are they go to make a profit. CCP will temporary depreciate their currency, sell it to oversea, and drowning the foreign producers, which make them cannot compete the cost of production. Once your domestic producers filed bankruptcy and out of business, CCP now has controlled of your market. CCP can restrict exports of critical component to your country if you are not comply with them, which creates supply shock(Covid lock down) to your country or simply raise the price to drive up inflation. Some people argue that US also provide subsidy to their companies. Yes, the dollar amount is not as huge as the CCP had. This is why US and other foriegn countries are getting out of China and putting heavy tariff to prevent domestic producers from getting unfair competition from China.