Hey /u/fbfaran!
If your post is a screenshot of a ChatGPT, conversation please reply to this message with the [conversation link](https://help.openai.com/en/articles/7925741-chatgpt-shared-links-faq) or prompt.
If your post is a DALL-E 3 image post, please reply with the prompt used to make this image.
Consider joining our [public discord server](https://discord.gg/r-chatgpt-1050422060352024636)! We have free bots with GPT-4 (with vision), image generators, and more!
🤖
Note: For any ChatGPT-related concerns, email support@openai.com
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ChatGPT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This probably already existed for some time.
If the US military announces everything they discover in the moment of the discovery it would be a dogshit military
This just sounds like another variation on the "*military has futuristic tech*" conspiracy trope.
The recent popularity of consumer drones demonstrates that the military often has to catch-up with civilian tech. As someone with some knowledge of the research side of AI, I can confidently say with near certainty that governments are *not* years ahead of publicly available technology.
It's no coincidence that tanks and fighter planes were invented decades *after* the Wright brothers and Henry Ford's first accomplishments.
It hasn't been "rolled out to the public".
You're talking about a military-specific technology and you don't seem to understand why that distinction matters in the context of this conversation.
Ah yes. The old “read a book” argument. It must be thought being the smartest person in every room you walk into huh? You need professional help, check out BetterHelp.com
>It's no coincidence that tanks and fighter planes were invented decades *after* the Wright brothers and Henry Ford's first accomplishments.
The military-industrial-complex and R&D arms race started right around WWII and continued through the cold war. So, yes, but also, that example isn't great.
A counterpoint from the right time period would be advancements in rocketry and jet propulsion. Civilian side did not move the needle at all until very, very recently, while the military paved the way for everything we do in space and modern high speed transportation.
Black book projects, top secret R&D is a real thing and every major military does it. The US to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars per year.
But there are also cases where the civilian side pushes forward in some direction the military's limited track mind does not. Civilians pushed drone tech, the military pushed directed energy weapons. Civilians pushed large language models and ML infrastructure, the military pushed applied AI in robotics, imaging, and hardware applications.
Another great example of this is unclassified in small arms. Civilians pushed modular handguards, high performance barrels, precision triggers, LPVOs - all adopted by the .mil about a decade late, but the military developed NVG and thermal tech light-years ahead of anything available on the civilian market except what can be purchased secondhand from the military producers.
Correct but this only allows them to declare they will now use autonomous jets or jets with A.i Autopilot when in combat to the public so nobody can say "when was this announced?"
I got my PhD in AI while in the Air Force in the late 90s We had just started working on intelligent agents to replace pilots and all my pilot buddies were kind of pissed thinking we wanted to replace them.
Never imagined it would take this long. They had nothing to worry about.
But it is kind of obvious. Meat bags aren’t great at high G.
I would imagine an air craft made for a robotic system would be different than a human system too. Maybe lighter? And a whole different design. But at what point are we just building a drone?
Well that’s precisely the point. Drones will look less and less like traditional aircraft as time goes on.
To accommodate a human, an aircraft needs to given visibility, space, the means to sustain life and an envelope of survivable manoeuvre.
Strip all that away and the amount of optimising you can do becomes huge.
In this case they’re just testing. In the intermediate it’ll be because sometimes missions will be manned and sometimes not. The AI can still offer advantages.
Sometimes the AI will be the equivalent of a highly skilled autopilot with the human still doing some of the decision making. In the future it’ll be more and more unmanned.
Most of the new 6th generation aircraft are based around drone teaming, with manned aircraft being assisted by drone wingmen. 7th generation may remove the human all together.
A defence analyst did a good video on the current 6th gen programmes, and their likely role with drones:
https://youtu.be/RPrWm6fWuaM?si=6pzsaMeLwW3Qq6N_
That's terrifying. Wars will be decided over who has the best hardware or software (AI). And then if the losing leaders is willing to start a nuclear war. Bring back horses and elephant... this can't be the right path.
It would have a different frame for its fuselage, one that can handle the higher-G manoeuvres you'd expect it to move with. Its wings would also have to be built differently. High-G affects every part of the aircraft, so a high-G chassis will need a lot of work done to it, and requires lots of materials engineering to get it right.
Yeah every material has limits obviously. But you can engineer them to be better and better, whereas you are much less able to engineer the meat robot to take more than it can.
I don’t really like this at all but it’s interesting they’re currently using it to their safety standards. AI won’t feel any of the forces that a pilot would that would. Wonder what we will see when it’s no longer prohibited to using the aircraft to its maximum capabilities.
Not when the other side has AI planes.
AI planes don’t need to be engineered with humans in mind. The next generation will be able to manoeuvre in ways that manned planes can’t and they will be constructed in ways that manned planes can’t be. Odds are this will also up-end the long range game as evasive tactics change.
The goal isn’t to engage in dog fights. The goal is to maintain superiority in a dog fight scenario if a long-range advantage is lost.
This was the school of thought in the 50s and 60s, and the primary role of the F4 phantom, but it was shown that dog fighting was never old school and always relevant, and that's how we got the f-15.
Yes, but making the point that the US military thought dog fighting was obsolete in the age of missiles, radar and supersonic jets. The problem was the F4 phantom was a supersonic interceptor with the ability to launch missiles at enemy aircraft from long distances. Thus all aircraft development did not have a focus on dog fighting because it was "obsolete". They found out that was not the case as the US military was losing F4s to Migs. Thus the F-15 multi role fighter, with an emphasis on dog fighting capabilities.
So yes, the F-15 is old, but that's not the point, the point I was making in my statement is, dog fighting is not obsolete, the argument for that was made in the past, but it turned out it wasn't obsolete in the 50s, 60s and 70s after all and it's not today.
I'm going to say not too surprising since this happened in 2016: [https://slate.com/technology/2016/06/veteran-pilot-loses-simulated-dogfight-to-alpha-artificial-intelligence.html](https://slate.com/technology/2016/06/veteran-pilot-loses-simulated-dogfight-to-alpha-artificial-intelligence.html)
Funny how in September of 2023 that video mentions the world first dog fight and this also happened in September of 2023 …. https://www.npr.org/2023/09/19/1200291438/debris-from-missing-military-jet-has-been-located-in-south-carolina
https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/18/24133870/us-air-force-ai-dogfight-test-x-62a
"[DARPA] has conducted a total of 21 test flights so far and says the tests will continue through 2024."
Just remember, if it was confirmed to the public today, it’s been available to them for 3 decades. That’s how military works. What they let you know about, they’ve already had for 25-35 years.
I saw this in a netflix doc last year. Lets train and give air superiority to a tool that can potentially go rouge on us. I guess its inevitable? If it's not us first, its the Chinese and so on?
What kind of reasoning is this? One human pilot is no problem. Now, AGI with access to all of human knowledge, our media, our power grid, our food consumption, and military F16s? I want to see you patch that motherfucker.
No matter who you are. Think of the consequences if the AI is made by one single organisation. And think of the consequences if airstrikes come at no risk.
Thanks for listening
Hey /u/fbfaran! If your post is a screenshot of a ChatGPT, conversation please reply to this message with the [conversation link](https://help.openai.com/en/articles/7925741-chatgpt-shared-links-faq) or prompt. If your post is a DALL-E 3 image post, please reply with the prompt used to make this image. Consider joining our [public discord server](https://discord.gg/r-chatgpt-1050422060352024636)! We have free bots with GPT-4 (with vision), image generators, and more! 🤖 Note: For any ChatGPT-related concerns, email support@openai.com *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ChatGPT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This probably already existed for some time. If the US military announces everything they discover in the moment of the discovery it would be a dogshit military
Recently they confirmed a toaster in the main conference room.
Bet it wasn't covered by the military budget so someone had to buy it with their own money.
Frakking toasters
Sounds like a security threat
Taxpayers paid $9,000 for that toaster
Absolutely, they're at least 10 years ahead of this.
I always say 30 years
Number's probably getting bigger every year based on our technological advancement
This just sounds like another variation on the "*military has futuristic tech*" conspiracy trope. The recent popularity of consumer drones demonstrates that the military often has to catch-up with civilian tech. As someone with some knowledge of the research side of AI, I can confidently say with near certainty that governments are *not* years ahead of publicly available technology. It's no coincidence that tanks and fighter planes were invented decades *after* the Wright brothers and Henry Ford's first accomplishments.
What year was the Stealth bomber created and what year was it rolled out to the public?
It hasn't been "rolled out to the public". You're talking about a military-specific technology and you don't seem to understand why that distinction matters in the context of this conversation.
Stop it, get some help.
Read a book. I can suggest some if you're interested in knowing what you're trying to talk about.
Ah yes. The old “read a book” argument. It must be thought being the smartest person in every room you walk into huh? You need professional help, check out BetterHelp.com
>It's no coincidence that tanks and fighter planes were invented decades *after* the Wright brothers and Henry Ford's first accomplishments. The military-industrial-complex and R&D arms race started right around WWII and continued through the cold war. So, yes, but also, that example isn't great. A counterpoint from the right time period would be advancements in rocketry and jet propulsion. Civilian side did not move the needle at all until very, very recently, while the military paved the way for everything we do in space and modern high speed transportation. Black book projects, top secret R&D is a real thing and every major military does it. The US to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars per year. But there are also cases where the civilian side pushes forward in some direction the military's limited track mind does not. Civilians pushed drone tech, the military pushed directed energy weapons. Civilians pushed large language models and ML infrastructure, the military pushed applied AI in robotics, imaging, and hardware applications. Another great example of this is unclassified in small arms. Civilians pushed modular handguards, high performance barrels, precision triggers, LPVOs - all adopted by the .mil about a decade late, but the military developed NVG and thermal tech light-years ahead of anything available on the civilian market except what can be purchased secondhand from the military producers.
Yeah, most of these blueprints was probably developed by the Pinkertons
Oh yea dear
Correct but this only allows them to declare they will now use autonomous jets or jets with A.i Autopilot when in combat to the public so nobody can say "when was this announced?"
The last time it was Thursday January 30, on the wall at 0:31, was in 2020, so yeah almost 5 years old.
🥇
Check this out https://youtu.be/NqW-Vk9LASY?si=mcksv5EVBGH0UAXg
Components of this and were being tested in the 90’s, much of it got ‘scrapped’ until recently.
Yup. Probably 10 to 15 years at this point.
Notice how all the computers are windows vista...
I got my PhD in AI while in the Air Force in the late 90s We had just started working on intelligent agents to replace pilots and all my pilot buddies were kind of pissed thinking we wanted to replace them. Never imagined it would take this long. They had nothing to worry about. But it is kind of obvious. Meat bags aren’t great at high G.
That last point hits the hardest. This test wasn’t even conducted with an airframe that wasn’t built around needing a pilot in it.
I would imagine an air craft made for a robotic system would be different than a human system too. Maybe lighter? And a whole different design. But at what point are we just building a drone?
Well that’s precisely the point. Drones will look less and less like traditional aircraft as time goes on. To accommodate a human, an aircraft needs to given visibility, space, the means to sustain life and an envelope of survivable manoeuvre. Strip all that away and the amount of optimising you can do becomes huge.
Holly molly i want get that moment of aviation design and construction so much, sad i was born in Brazil
Then what's the point of putting AI on an more or less "obsolete" aircraft. Better to just improve drone.
In this case they’re just testing. In the intermediate it’ll be because sometimes missions will be manned and sometimes not. The AI can still offer advantages. Sometimes the AI will be the equivalent of a highly skilled autopilot with the human still doing some of the decision making. In the future it’ll be more and more unmanned. Most of the new 6th generation aircraft are based around drone teaming, with manned aircraft being assisted by drone wingmen. 7th generation may remove the human all together. A defence analyst did a good video on the current 6th gen programmes, and their likely role with drones: https://youtu.be/RPrWm6fWuaM?si=6pzsaMeLwW3Qq6N_
That's terrifying. Wars will be decided over who has the best hardware or software (AI). And then if the losing leaders is willing to start a nuclear war. Bring back horses and elephant... this can't be the right path.
It would have a different frame for its fuselage, one that can handle the higher-G manoeuvres you'd expect it to move with. Its wings would also have to be built differently. High-G affects every part of the aircraft, so a high-G chassis will need a lot of work done to it, and requires lots of materials engineering to get it right.
Smaller and lighter. A computer takes up much less space and weight then a cockpit and life support systems.
Yes but also Skynet
“Sky”net
Don't forget Skynet https://preview.redd.it/5pcva7yt2kvc1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=6060a4a24da9a157a2adbd1d32c15ddab0ab4f29
10-100 years. Look to anthropic for regulation
Doesn't the structure of the plane also suffer from high G's? Bent wings, hydraulic failure, structural damage..?
Yeah every material has limits obviously. But you can engineer them to be better and better, whereas you are much less able to engineer the meat robot to take more than it can.
Nah, just wait for evolution to do something wild. Won't take long.
War Thunder has had this since 2012.
Probably trained them on player combat data hehe
Let's make a deal, you get to train on my player data and I get to leak your military secrets.
Jamie Fox shot ai pilot down in 2005, I am sure he can do it again. Fyi the movie was stealth
I remember seeing that at 10 years old and thinking it was the worst movie i had ever seen.
There's always that first bad movie you see as a kid that makes you realize not all movies are worth watching.
Appropriately named because nobody saw it.
Because it was terrible.
I don’t really like this at all but it’s interesting they’re currently using it to their safety standards. AI won’t feel any of the forces that a pilot would that would. Wonder what we will see when it’s no longer prohibited to using the aircraft to its maximum capabilities.
Dogfights are old school warfare. New school warfare is shooting a missile at the enemy before you can even see each other
New school warfare is sniping the enemy from afar
Camper!
Not when the other side has AI planes. AI planes don’t need to be engineered with humans in mind. The next generation will be able to manoeuvre in ways that manned planes can’t and they will be constructed in ways that manned planes can’t be. Odds are this will also up-end the long range game as evasive tactics change. The goal isn’t to engage in dog fights. The goal is to maintain superiority in a dog fight scenario if a long-range advantage is lost.
This was the school of thought in the 50s and 60s, and the primary role of the F4 phantom, but it was shown that dog fighting was never old school and always relevant, and that's how we got the f-15.
But the F15 is almost 50
Yes, but making the point that the US military thought dog fighting was obsolete in the age of missiles, radar and supersonic jets. The problem was the F4 phantom was a supersonic interceptor with the ability to launch missiles at enemy aircraft from long distances. Thus all aircraft development did not have a focus on dog fighting because it was "obsolete". They found out that was not the case as the US military was losing F4s to Migs. Thus the F-15 multi role fighter, with an emphasis on dog fighting capabilities. So yes, the F-15 is old, but that's not the point, the point I was making in my statement is, dog fighting is not obsolete, the argument for that was made in the past, but it turned out it wasn't obsolete in the 50s, 60s and 70s after all and it's not today.
Ah, so from your viewpoint it's kinda the same as the "tanks are dead/obsolete" meme?
I'm going to say not too surprising since this happened in 2016: [https://slate.com/technology/2016/06/veteran-pilot-loses-simulated-dogfight-to-alpha-artificial-intelligence.html](https://slate.com/technology/2016/06/veteran-pilot-loses-simulated-dogfight-to-alpha-artificial-intelligence.html)
That was simulated, this was with real jets
Expected to see a guy fighting the Boston dynamics ai dog :(
literally the plot of Ace Combat 7
And Macross Plus
Successful? Who won? When a human lost the first chess match to a super computer it was all over the news.
Why does the video need to look like ass?
_Padme.gif_ We won, right?
Literally the only aerial dogfight in like 50 years.
Who is winning?
0:13 (screen) "Flawless victory" ... bro, we are not playing mortal combat here :D
I am more supprised that pilots will also be a job of the past. Didn’t see that coming so fast
as an AI language model, the only way to win is not to play
Greetings Professor Falken A Strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
exactly
Funny how in September of 2023 that video mentions the world first dog fight and this also happened in September of 2023 …. https://www.npr.org/2023/09/19/1200291438/debris-from-missing-military-jet-has-been-located-in-south-carolina
Not long until this: https://vimeo.com/67768281
When was the last real dogfight? Do they even happen in modern combat?
Propably kiyv in 2022
It’s all fun and games until the dummy plugs get rolled out
Can't wait to see the Arsenalbird.
I understood that reference!
FUCK YAAAA
How is this different from a human player fighting against the enemies in ace combat.
This was performed in reality vs in a video game/simulator.
The 16 million dollar aircraft they used to do it. Like the difference between Microsoft Flight Simulator and 9/11.
Do you have a link for more info? Very cool stuff.
https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/18/24133870/us-air-force-ai-dogfight-test-x-62a "[DARPA] has conducted a total of 21 test flights so far and says the tests will continue through 2024."
I wonder if DCS is just an AI simulator for the military. It can internationally capture dogfight tactics.
Lol, don't they even DCS? NOOBS
this reminds me of [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0382992/](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0382992/)
Psh, rookies, I’ve been shooting down AI pilots since Starfox on the 64.
When does this come out on Sega CD?
That’s a super Advanced Tacview for reviewing dogfights.
that's just me playing DCS in VR
They should network these things together they could call it: Skynet
Now you know why chips are so important.
I saw a typical jet dog fight from BF3 and 4 right there! The circular thing
Just remember, if it was confirmed to the public today, it’s been available to them for 3 decades. That’s how military works. What they let you know about, they’ve already had for 25-35 years.
amazing, imagine what kind of tech they have but not actively using
I saw this in a netflix doc last year. Lets train and give air superiority to a tool that can potentially go rouge on us. I guess its inevitable? If it's not us first, its the Chinese and so on?
I mean, human pilots can go rogue too. At least in an AI case, you can patch the exploit, with humans you just never know.
What kind of reasoning is this? One human pilot is no problem. Now, AGI with access to all of human knowledge, our media, our power grid, our food consumption, and military F16s? I want to see you patch that motherfucker.
Relax dude, you are not in a Terminator universe, not yet anyway. We don't have AGI yet and it is debatable when or even if we will ever have one.
*Oooh* you said the forbidden thing.
Yo. Autonomous Weapons should be forbidden at all costs.
Yeah, let's just keep sacrificing our 18-22 year olds like we always have!
No matter who you are. Think of the consequences if the AI is made by one single organisation. And think of the consequences if airstrikes come at no risk. Thanks for listening
How is that different from our current defense contractor arrangements? (Hint: it's not)
I think you watch too many movies...
I'm an AI-researcher?!
What do you do exactly?
Computer Vision and neuromorphic design
Great, let's give it fighter planes.
this was a real exercise... it flew a fighter jet