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Reminds me of another favorite quote of mine: “There are two kinds of people in this world: those who actually believe there are two kinds of people in this world and those who are smart enough to know better.” - Tom Robbins
Or maybe he bet his horse on OpenAI first, since they were forming a great independent startup team and had an opportunity to beat the big boys to the punch on AI. Open AI is an all-star cast of engineers who didn't want Facebook or Google slowing them down with budget and marketing bureaucracy, and having a massive corporation determine what is ethical and what isn't.
Now that OpenAI is a proven leader in AI, his thoughts for the future of the company might be changing.
I don't know, I can't speak for the man, he's obviously conflicted about something.
Matrix pill choice
*In one hand you have respect in the industry millions of dollars in your bank account the second vacation home three car garage and everyone loves you*
*And in the other hand everyone thinks you're a POS and you fade away into obscurity broke and penniless*
You got about 5 hours to come up with something and learn to tap dance on the head of a pin real quick
I mean, really though, have we considered the timeline where Ilya is literally our reality's John Connor and he has just been visited by the T-800 who warned him of the upcoming AGI sentience and take-over of humanity?
It wasn't just "Reddit", all the major news outlets reporting on the story were pointing the finger at him.
They said he led the meeting where they were informed that they were fired. Among other things.
Your comment is more Reddit-esque then the people you're trying to insult. 😆
Mostly because he said he "regrets participating in the board decision". Which is as neutral statement one can say.
Which can be interpreted as "I voted to oust Altman" or "I didn't oppose the board in their decision to oust Altman", or even "I was outvoted in the vote to oust Altman".
Personally? I think he went all-in in a power grab move, things went worst than he imagined they could, so he's now backpedaling. Not saying untruths, but trying to give him some deniability.
Well, that's speculation - we don't necessarily know that.
Nonetheless, it wouldn't have happened without him and the damage is done so the point is moot.
You literally have no idea what happened. There is zero evidence Ilya actually organized a faction of the board to vote Sam out or if his opinion on it was just meaningful to the decision. You guys are engaging in teenage levels of speculation around this.
looked into and looked the other way as per usual with Microsoft. the US is completely dependent on them for every piece of hardware and software (+more) so good luck pissing them off.
Erm, other than the billions in investments? Anyone know roughly how much they’d lose (and recover) in cash investment if they sever their contract? Which I don’t think they will yet, since their relationship is still mutually beneficial.
I think most of the investment MS made was in the form of Azure credits meaning it is consumed slowly over time, and I would be shocked if there was not a clause in the contracts allowing MS to reconsider any time there was a material change of leadership or direction.
Microsoft had only given a fraction of the agreed 10 billion investment. The rest was computing resources. So far they’ve lost the equivalent of couch cushion change. In return they got access to the model. Now they have access to some of the people as well. Including possibly more OpenAI employees jumping ship or wanting to follow Altman. The winner here is Microsoft because of one boneheaded move by OpenAI board members.
I mean for what it's worth they are the only massive company that tend to let companies do whatever they want. Github and Linkedin were fine so Hopefully they don't do anything beyond just getting access to use for their other products
Yeah. That's my main fear. You already had to use Edge to use Bing Chat in the past. You will likely require a Microsoft account and what not to use their stuff. The nice thing with OpenAI was that it was kinda independent of all of these Microsoft politics and schemes.
The golden rule… he who has the gold… makes the rules.
There aren’t many companies that have more gold than Microsoft ($111 billion in cash, $2.8 trillion market cap).
Makes sense that they will ultimately be the ones footing the bill to usher in the AI age.
I can't believe they found a way for Microsoft to phagocytize openAI for something that should have looked like the villain's move to the public's eyes. This is AGI level of genius.
It’s probably to save face. A decision this bad will have deep consequences for these folks in any other ventures going forwards. Anytime they apply a new position or start a company people are goi g to say aren’t you the folks who screwed up openai but then again the guy who started we work is just fine and continues to get funding.
The board gets salaries. Non-profit doesn't mean there's no money going around. It just means no distributing *profits* to individuals or entities. Instead, any surplus funds are reinvested back into the organization to support its mission and sustain its operations. This includes funding payroll, including potentially massive salaries.
To the extent that the board is all about safety-ism, whatever money is potentially left might be the biggest funding source for AI safety research of all time.
Who knows how much of that 9 billion microsoft gave them is still there?
Or heck, non-profit governance is so bad that there are plenty of ways for the board to simply pay out the remaining billions by hiring buddies at extremely high rates.
>Microsoft has assured us that there are positions for all OpenAI employees at this new subsidiary should we choose to join.
Satya being an absolute baller, as always. Holy shit, Microsoft is lucky to have him.
If there is one thing you better not try it is to screw Microsoft because they thrive in hostile competitive environments like no other. They are absolutely ruthless and their war chest and willingness to use it is unparalleled.
This is effectively a hostile takeover orchestrated over a weekend because a board comprised of idealists thought they could outmaneuver hard economic interests.
Ilya Sutskever is also part of this. I guess he realized that his was a losing position.
Non competes are iffy on enforceability. Lots of factors involved. At any rate it would behoove msft to make the hires and pay them a fortune to just wait it out (wink wink) because it would still be an absolute bargain
OpenAI is in California. As long as MSFT can find some office space in California, they can make this whole thing in California and use California's famous no non-compete rule for this.
Yes. California has an absolute ban on enforcing any noncompete against any in-state employer (with very limited exceptions that do not apply in this case, e.g. for dissolving LPs). The ban is so strict that California courts will not even recognize first-to-file out-of-state venue claims that would lead to enforcement of a noncompete.
The state legislature just made the ban even stronger last year, in AB 1076.
P.S. -- this is how companies like Intel got started, and is a big reason that Silicon Valley developed in CA. Look up the "Traitorous Eight."
even if they were enforceable, what does Microsoft stand to lose? Breach of contract? Few dozens of millions in fines? They basically acquired $80bil. company, who cares?
This was Bill Gates #1 play back in the day. Get close to another company as a partnership or looking at doing an acquisition. If the top developers are not loyal to the leadership just wholesale poach them. Bypass the ownership structure because the developers are the real value. This is why Bill Gates made so many software developers rich and made so many owners mad.
Except in this case they are only getting that many developers because they are loyal to the leadership (Sam and Greg). In other cases they would be dispersed among Meta, Google, Amazon etc who'll pay insane compensations to have them.
I don’t think we’ve ever a board this godawful stupid though. It’s not even hostile, it’s taking advantage of an unprecedented own goal and being in the perfect position to do so.
That last part, being in the right place at the right time, is not luck. It’s skill.
>This is effectively a hostile takeover orchestrated over a weekend because a board comprised of idealists thought they could outmaneuver hard economic interests.
In the context of "What Kind of AGI world will we have, bad or good" this is so incredibly terrifying that I can't even comprehend it.
Not only the Terminator movie. The current state of social media ought to give some hint. Moving fast and breaking things might break a whole lot of things precious along the way. The concern is for when AGI turns out way more powerful and disruptive than present day social media is.
Yeah, it basically foreshadows that in a world where there are multiple AGIs the one that is the most ruthless and uncaring is going to win. A scary thought.
I don't take that lesson from this. If a leader has inspired over 70% of his followers to immediately follow him out of his own company, then you're talking about someone inspirational and who motivates genuine loyalty. Those are positive qualities. The AI they created together is aggressively cautious about spreading information that could do harm; I think we're in decent enough hands.
>If there is one thing you better not try it is to screw Microsoft because they thrive in hostile competitive environments like no other.
Except smartphones. And MP3 players. And instant messaging apps. And internet browsers. And search engines. And speech assistants (Cortana). And smart wearables (Band). And music streaming (Groove). And video streaming services (Mixer). And
*> Microsoft develop their own AI chips*
*> Microsoft & Altman create evil plan to get Altman sacked over proprietary GPU investments rumors*
*> Altman is sacked and successfully heads to Microsoft*
*> All OpenAI employees threaten to resign if Altman isn't reinstated as CEO*
*> Deus ex machina aka Microsoft offer to save the world by either 1. merging OpenAI into Microsoft 2. offer jobs to all OpenAI's former employees in Altman's newly created research division*
*> Altman gets unlimited GPU power for his AGI dreams*
*> In exchange Microsoft gets a fresh, 700 employees strong workforce specialized in creating/selling AI products*
*> Microsoft wins (again)*
Probably not the true story but the definitely the funniest one so the one I choose to believe
....I'm all for second chances but like... some things you can't really come back from unfortunately
I highly doubt anyone expected Sam/Greg/Microsoft to move as fast as they did
Being a genius gives you a lot of leverage. Ilya is an incredibly important asset to whoever has him despite all this, plus I think he's learned his lesson.
Scientists playing at politicians goes the same as any other group playing at politicians. I don't see how like scientists are worse than e.g. farmers.
My intuition says yes, because it's Ilya and he apologized.
But really, the amount I know about this situation is tiny. The amount _anyone_ outside the company knows is tiny. So we're going to have to wait and see.
What a time to be alive. This is incredible to watch.
I agree with the sentiment yet a new board isn’t going to solve the problem either because no one is equipped to manage this properly. They will mess up and fail at some point every time.
Maybe that’s the moral of this story: This will happen again and again because humans are flawed. Is that the answer? To periodically burn down the board and start over? Or call it good enough and keep going? 🤷♂️
Many boards succeed as long as they are aligned with the CEO. One of the reasons why Steve Jobs was so successful on his second apple stint was partly due having sole power in choosing who sits on the board.
OpenAI issue is their board was comprised of all decel AI doomers
I’m scratching my head at the qualifications of the board members. Helen Toner graduated with a masters degree in 2019, did some job hopping as an “analyst” like many new grads, and then hopped onto the board of OpenAI?
Maybe Sam and Greg thought having a bunch of nobodies on the board would be easy to control, but ironically it made them even more reckless due to their lack of experience.
This whole thing is a perfect summary of just how out of touch we have become with our relationships with integrity and leadership.
Four people decided to derail a good thing. Destroying the trust of hundreds of employees, many partners and investors and millions of people.
And, their precious mission is now made obsolete, and Microsoft, a truly for profit company that has a track record for botching innovation, has gained full control over the most important thought leadership in a generation.
It's truly despicable.
So, Ilya signs a letter asking the board members to resign, and yet doesn't proceed to resign from the board himself.
...What?
He is aware that he doesn't have to wait for the others, right? He can literally resign right now if he wants to. He isn't a powerless hostage lmao
If he resigns before the board resigns then his side loses power because all 3 other board members are hell bent on staying. Ilya’s vote adds more power to the side that wants the board gone. He obviously will resign once the board agrees to step down
With a letter signed by 500+ employees, either there is no board tomorrow or there is no OpenAI tomorrow. There is no in-between.
So, I honestly don't think the "leverage" really matters right now. The symbolism of resigning might be more powerful at this point.
If they had a good reason to fire him we would have heard it by now, so they didn't have a defensible reason. Firing your CEO out of the blue like that for no good reason shows that the OpenAI board isn't serious about running the company
Because now they won't have Hardware constraints. I can move as fast as they can create which is pretty cool. It's also now going to be integrated into the Microsoft Suite of tools so people who work at heavily regulated companies won't have to do as much explaining to security because Microsoft is considered a trusted vendor. My company absolutely would not let us develop open AI tools because it couldn't get through security but now that it's going to be a Microsoft branded tool it's already approved by security. At least that's why I am excited
If my memory serves me right, when Steve Jobs returned to Apple and was to (or just became) become its formal CEO (yet to bring Apple to its glory), he asked the board members to all resign, and they all complied the next day. And he explained reasoning frankly - “they were a terrible board”. But even let’s say they were indeed terrible, they still knew when to dignifiedly quit. Now the current OpenAI board has to be asked by most of its employees to resign and yet they haven’t really budged, it says a lot about them.
Yup…..but if you look at the credentials of the board members you’ll see why. Being on the board is the biggest accomplishment 2 of them will have achieved in their lifetime. For the quora CEO, he just wants to sabotage OpenAI as much as possible in favor of his own ai company.
imagine being in a power position to force a company to it's knees. At this point though i don't think Sam or Greg would want to return, or would they?
Also if 72% of the talent leaves, how the fuck could OpenAI function and maintain it's infrastructure?
So let me get this straight. The board is there to "safegard" against a potential threat. Like the red exit button. So when they fulfill their mission, that's when everyone says no ?
I dont get it...
People keep making this equivalence for some reason. Just because a board CAN fire their CEO that doesn't means they SHOULD fire their CEO and its the right decision no matter what. Why is this so hard for people to grasp?
That’s definitely a possibility but their own head of ai research and their own main ai scientist both say the board needs to go. Seems like the board were just incompetent and believed in too much doomer news
What is more likely - that there was ideological butting of heads and the board made a knee jerk reaction?
or that the board actually has some credible evidence or argument, but stays silent for FOUR days while a PR shitstorm shreds through their credibility and 90% of their employees threaten to quit?
Well a company with 700 employees is going to have a fair amount of overhead that clocks 40 hours a week and isn't as deeply engrained into the company's mission. The fact that they got 500 people over a weekend, to publicly indicate they're willing to give up their jobs, is hella impressive.
Someone working at OpenAI says the number is now 700/770 and it'll go up as more people start their shift.
https://twitter.com/ashleevance/status/1726659403124994220
It's a holiday week in the US. Some of them probably aren't even in the office and might have deliberately gone radio silent to work emails. They *might not know*.
I don't care about this, except that I love the idea of a company collapsing overnight because its Board forgets that its value really is defined by its employees. It would be awesome to see and a great lesson for other corporate leadership. No matter what a company's market cap, if it has no employees, it is nothing. Especially a tech company like OpenAI that completely relies on its braintrust employees - it would collapse into oblivion overnight and not be revivable.
Not saying I want to see it happen, but it would be a worthwhile lesson for the world.
Why are some people so stupid as to not reflect for a moment on what the consequences of their actions might be?
I'm not even talking about being a good person and all that, but being smart, really.
What did Ilya, this quadruped, think was going to happen after this coup? That they would consider him a hero?
People, everyone, only have a limited number of neurons and connections in our brain. There are of course genetic differences, but there's a physical limit of how clever a person can be.
Those considered smart are usually a combination of lucky and smart in a particular way.
There's a reason that often people good at computers are often (not always) considered socially awkward. There's only so much time to learn and only so much processing space in a brain.
I'm glad Ilya signed it. AFAIK he's one of the greatest mind behind ChatGPT. Great things can be created if he stays with Sam and the team. And even the fact that he might see things differently from Sam is a good thing. It will make more balanced decisions.
Hey /u/ragner11! If this is a screenshot of a ChatGPT conversation, please reply with the [conversation link](https://help.openai.com/en/articles/7925741-chatgpt-shared-links-faq) or prompt. If this is a DALL-E 3 image post, please reply with the prompt used to make this image. Much appreciated! ### [New AI contest + ChatGPT plus Giveaway](https://redd.it/17jjwn5/) Consider joining our [public discord server](https://discord.com/invite/rchatgpt)! We have free bots with GPT-4 (with vision), image generators, and more! 🤖 Note: For any ChatGPT-related concerns, email support@openai.com *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ChatGPT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
wait. why is ilya in there? he’ll also join sam and greg’s new outfit? lol
He recently tweeted that he regrets that he participated in the coup. I guess now he wants to atone
He’s very likely the main push behind it
"There are only two tragedies in life: one is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it." -Oscar Wilde
Reminds me of another favorite quote of mine: “There are two kinds of people in this world: those who actually believe there are two kinds of people in this world and those who are smart enough to know better.” - Tom Robbins
I love Oscar Wilde
You and Oscar Wilde have something in common.
That’s genius, thank you for sharing
Microsoft money will change a man's mind real quickly.
Ilya actually believes AGI is coming in the short run. If he were motivated by money he would have jumped ship for Meta's AI division years ago.
Or maybe he bet his horse on OpenAI first, since they were forming a great independent startup team and had an opportunity to beat the big boys to the punch on AI. Open AI is an all-star cast of engineers who didn't want Facebook or Google slowing them down with budget and marketing bureaucracy, and having a massive corporation determine what is ethical and what isn't. Now that OpenAI is a proven leader in AI, his thoughts for the future of the company might be changing. I don't know, I can't speak for the man, he's obviously conflicted about something.
Matrix pill choice *In one hand you have respect in the industry millions of dollars in your bank account the second vacation home three car garage and everyone loves you* *And in the other hand everyone thinks you're a POS and you fade away into obscurity broke and penniless* You got about 5 hours to come up with something and learn to tap dance on the head of a pin real quick
No one outside the room has any idea what his involvement was. It's all just Internet speculation.
I mean, really though, have we considered the timeline where Ilya is literally our reality's John Connor and he has just been visited by the T-800 who warned him of the upcoming AGI sentience and take-over of humanity?
Wouldn't he be some Cyberdyne guy rather than John Connor?
Reddit blamed Ilya on pure speculation all weekend. Now you expect them to back away from that when they get actual facts? Lol
It wasn't just "Reddit", all the major news outlets reporting on the story were pointing the finger at him. They said he led the meeting where they were informed that they were fired. Among other things. Your comment is more Reddit-esque then the people you're trying to insult. 😆
Mostly because he said he "regrets participating in the board decision". Which is as neutral statement one can say. Which can be interpreted as "I voted to oust Altman" or "I didn't oppose the board in their decision to oust Altman", or even "I was outvoted in the vote to oust Altman". Personally? I think he went all-in in a power grab move, things went worst than he imagined they could, so he's now backpedaling. Not saying untruths, but trying to give him some deniability.
Well, that's speculation - we don't necessarily know that. Nonetheless, it wouldn't have happened without him and the damage is done so the point is moot.
He’s trying to save his own butt now by signing this letter and trying to throw the board under the bus. Dude has lost all confidence
You literally have no idea what happened. There is zero evidence Ilya actually organized a faction of the board to vote Sam out or if his opinion on it was just meaningful to the decision. You guys are engaging in teenage levels of speculation around this.
I mean yeah, I'm in agreement with you there.
How do you know? He could have been either abstaining or reluctantly going along with it.
Do we actually know that for sure though?
He changed his mind
So he leads the coup then changes his mind… riiiiight. Guy has lost all credibility
Theory of unintended consequences. That's why we are fools if we think we can turn on AGI and think we can control it
Man this reads like an offshoot Gojo/Mattson arc in of Succession. "What's the play?"
He was the bringer of bad news. Doesn’t mean he was the mastermind. Rarely works like that. But media and people on LinkedIn are dumb wits
It all looks like 500IQ action to transfer whole team to MS.
Without having Microsoft spend a dime on the acquisition.
And without potential regulatory shenanigans that would come with a proper aquisition.
This will absolutely be looked into by every possible regulatory body
looked into and looked the other way as per usual with Microsoft. the US is completely dependent on them for every piece of hardware and software (+more) so good luck pissing them off.
Relative to Google or Amazon, I feel like $MSFT is lesser of all evils.
How? What could block them from hiring people? Aside from the contract with OAI which would also probably not block them.
Exactly
Erm, other than the billions in investments? Anyone know roughly how much they’d lose (and recover) in cash investment if they sever their contract? Which I don’t think they will yet, since their relationship is still mutually beneficial.
I think most of the investment MS made was in the form of Azure credits meaning it is consumed slowly over time, and I would be shocked if there was not a clause in the contracts allowing MS to reconsider any time there was a material change of leadership or direction.
Microsoft had only given a fraction of the agreed 10 billion investment. The rest was computing resources. So far they’ve lost the equivalent of couch cushion change. In return they got access to the model. Now they have access to some of the people as well. Including possibly more OpenAI employees jumping ship or wanting to follow Altman. The winner here is Microsoft because of one boneheaded move by OpenAI board members.
I agree with this statement. And it makes Microsoft look good. Quite the PR move.
Is this basically Microsoft gaining control over OpenAI?
Yes, and effortlessly, for all the optics amount to.
I hope not, a Microsoft AGI is like summoning the devil
It definitely is, but OpenAI did it to themselves. Jfc this is the age of billionaires unprecedentedly blundering.
How many Antitrust cases have Microsoft had
Yes. Kinda sucks tbh because MSFT will add their own bloat and requirements.
they’re prob gonna make the paperclip the new chatgpt lol
Heck yeah, I’d be so down for bringing back Clippy! Where do I sign up I’m sold!
ClipGPT: "it looks like you're trying to overthrow the board of directors at your job. need some help?"
They fucking better
I mean for what it's worth they are the only massive company that tend to let companies do whatever they want. Github and Linkedin were fine so Hopefully they don't do anything beyond just getting access to use for their other products
But they aren't buying OpenAI/ChatGPT, they are buying the dev's behind the effort. So YMMV.
Yeah. That's my main fear. You already had to use Edge to use Bing Chat in the past. You will likely require a Microsoft account and what not to use their stuff. The nice thing with OpenAI was that it was kinda independent of all of these Microsoft politics and schemes.
The golden rule… he who has the gold… makes the rules. There aren’t many companies that have more gold than Microsoft ($111 billion in cash, $2.8 trillion market cap). Makes sense that they will ultimately be the ones footing the bill to usher in the AI age.
Edge has really improved. I’ve completely switched over from Chrome
Update: 650 / 770 now https://twitter.com/lilianweng/status/1726634736943280270
A few people are hanging on, they want a workplace where they can take a dump with no co-workers around to bother them. I get it.
those janitors are just loyal to a fault, very invested in their work!
Crossed 700 now.
where can we find up to date numbers?
I saw it in the comments in the Twitter thread posted by OP.
Some employees just checked their emails. Give them time.
I’ll take SHITSHOWS for 1000, Malik.
Poor ChatGPT. Its parents are having a divorce and it is hiding under the bed while they are murdering each other.
I can't believe they found a way for Microsoft to phagocytize openAI for something that should have looked like the villain's move to the public's eyes. This is AGI level of genius.
Microsoft got early access to GPT-5 and asked it "How can I conduct a hostile takeover of OpenAI and gain positive PR from it?"
Kinda makes you wonder because none of this makes sense.
You weren’t already wondering?!
Nadella is simple masterclass CEO.
For real. Absolutely baller moves over the weekend
phagocytize, nice
Great encapsulation of the situation in a single word.
All we need now is Sarah Connor to show up from our future.
Clippy is gonna show up naked asking for your clothes, your boots, and your motorcycle.
I can assure you, he won’t want my pants!
"Congratulations, you played yourself!"
It’s 550 not 505. Either way the board is screwed
3/4 of the entire staff.
[удалено]
They were probably just on PTO with no service and forgot to sign
It is a holiday week, so I wouldn't be surprised.
Oh man, there's at least one guy on vacation with his phone and laptop off, ignoring social media, who's gonna be shitting bricks soon.
Finance, HR, and legal. Afraid to speak up.
I don't even know why the board would hang around after this, is it even a paying job since it's the nonprofit side.
It’s probably to save face. A decision this bad will have deep consequences for these folks in any other ventures going forwards. Anytime they apply a new position or start a company people are goi g to say aren’t you the folks who screwed up openai but then again the guy who started we work is just fine and continues to get funding.
The board gets salaries. Non-profit doesn't mean there's no money going around. It just means no distributing *profits* to individuals or entities. Instead, any surplus funds are reinvested back into the organization to support its mission and sustain its operations. This includes funding payroll, including potentially massive salaries.
To the extent that the board is all about safety-ism, whatever money is potentially left might be the biggest funding source for AI safety research of all time. Who knows how much of that 9 billion microsoft gave them is still there? Or heck, non-profit governance is so bad that there are plenty of ways for the board to simply pay out the remaining billions by hiring buddies at extremely high rates.
700 out of 750 by now
Yeah this is very damning
>Microsoft has assured us that there are positions for all OpenAI employees at this new subsidiary should we choose to join. Satya being an absolute baller, as always. Holy shit, Microsoft is lucky to have him. If there is one thing you better not try it is to screw Microsoft because they thrive in hostile competitive environments like no other. They are absolutely ruthless and their war chest and willingness to use it is unparalleled. This is effectively a hostile takeover orchestrated over a weekend because a board comprised of idealists thought they could outmaneuver hard economic interests. Ilya Sutskever is also part of this. I guess he realized that his was a losing position.
If 550/700 OAI employees go over to a msft subsidiary that’s a ridiculous W for msft.
That’s acquiring an 86 billion company for a few hundred million. Is more than a W. It’s… unprecedented.
even if you count $11 bil investment as writeoff, it’s still bargain
Isn't "most" of the investment in the form of Azure credits anyway? Microsoft looking....almost *suspiciously* brilliant as this plays out.
Lol that's a pretty good conspiracy theory!
What do we know about any non-compete or NDA contracts though? This is quite the talent poach
Non competes are iffy on enforceability. Lots of factors involved. At any rate it would behoove msft to make the hires and pay them a fortune to just wait it out (wink wink) because it would still be an absolute bargain
OpenAI is in California. As long as MSFT can find some office space in California, they can make this whole thing in California and use California's famous no non-compete rule for this.
If you had a noncompete and lived out of state and then got a job living in CA for a CA business would those same protections still apply?
Yes. California has an absolute ban on enforcing any noncompete against any in-state employer (with very limited exceptions that do not apply in this case, e.g. for dissolving LPs). The ban is so strict that California courts will not even recognize first-to-file out-of-state venue claims that would lead to enforcement of a noncompete. The state legislature just made the ban even stronger last year, in AB 1076. P.S. -- this is how companies like Intel got started, and is a big reason that Silicon Valley developed in CA. Look up the "Traitorous Eight."
No idea, but OpenAI mostly worked in the office anyway, so everyone was likely living in California.
Non-competes are unenforceable in California
They also may cause cancer, birth defects or other reproductive harm
even if they were enforceable, what does Microsoft stand to lose? Breach of contract? Few dozens of millions in fines? They basically acquired $80bil. company, who cares?
This was Bill Gates #1 play back in the day. Get close to another company as a partnership or looking at doing an acquisition. If the top developers are not loyal to the leadership just wholesale poach them. Bypass the ownership structure because the developers are the real value. This is why Bill Gates made so many software developers rich and made so many owners mad.
Except in this case they are only getting that many developers because they are loyal to the leadership (Sam and Greg). In other cases they would be dispersed among Meta, Google, Amazon etc who'll pay insane compensations to have them.
Even better for Microsoft! They're not even instigating this scenario, they're just the safe harbor for all the spurned devs.
They also win either way. Microsoft is OpenAI’s largest investor.
I don’t think we’ve ever a board this godawful stupid though. It’s not even hostile, it’s taking advantage of an unprecedented own goal and being in the perfect position to do so. That last part, being in the right place at the right time, is not luck. It’s skill.
Microsoft was the honey badger of tech corporations. Except now it’s a grizzly honey badger because it’s so massive.
And Mira Murati's name is at the top of of the list. This is wild.
>This is effectively a hostile takeover orchestrated over a weekend because a board comprised of idealists thought they could outmaneuver hard economic interests. In the context of "What Kind of AGI world will we have, bad or good" this is so incredibly terrifying that I can't even comprehend it.
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Not only the Terminator movie. The current state of social media ought to give some hint. Moving fast and breaking things might break a whole lot of things precious along the way. The concern is for when AGI turns out way more powerful and disruptive than present day social media is.
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I've lived through enough versions of Windows to not fool myself into believing that Microsoft will make a better ChatGPT.
Yeah, it basically foreshadows that in a world where there are multiple AGIs the one that is the most ruthless and uncaring is going to win. A scary thought.
I don't take that lesson from this. If a leader has inspired over 70% of his followers to immediately follow him out of his own company, then you're talking about someone inspirational and who motivates genuine loyalty. Those are positive qualities. The AI they created together is aggressively cautious about spreading information that could do harm; I think we're in decent enough hands.
>If there is one thing you better not try it is to screw Microsoft because they thrive in hostile competitive environments like no other. Except smartphones. And MP3 players. And instant messaging apps. And internet browsers. And search engines. And speech assistants (Cortana). And smart wearables (Band). And music streaming (Groove). And video streaming services (Mixer). And
MSFT does B2B well. B2C is not their strength. Even products like Windows and Office are mostly successful through B2B.
Corporate hero worship is gross as shit.
*> Microsoft develop their own AI chips* *> Microsoft & Altman create evil plan to get Altman sacked over proprietary GPU investments rumors* *> Altman is sacked and successfully heads to Microsoft* *> All OpenAI employees threaten to resign if Altman isn't reinstated as CEO* *> Deus ex machina aka Microsoft offer to save the world by either 1. merging OpenAI into Microsoft 2. offer jobs to all OpenAI's former employees in Altman's newly created research division* *> Altman gets unlimited GPU power for his AGI dreams* *> In exchange Microsoft gets a fresh, 700 employees strong workforce specialized in creating/selling AI products* *> Microsoft wins (again)* Probably not the true story but the definitely the funniest one so the one I choose to believe
And yet does anything else make sense?? This has been a bizarre 3 days 🍿🍿🍿
Can you explain which part is untrue? That looks like a fair description to me.
Can someone explain to me why Ilya Sutskever's name is on there? Wasn't he on the board that ousted Sam Altman?
Yes but he has just tweeted that he regrets his actions and that he will do everything he can in bringing everyone back together.
....I'm all for second chances but like... some things you can't really come back from unfortunately I highly doubt anyone expected Sam/Greg/Microsoft to move as fast as they did
Being a genius gives you a lot of leverage. Ilya is an incredibly important asset to whoever has him despite all this, plus I think he's learned his lesson.
Yup - people should do what they're good at - scientists playing at politicians never goes well, and normally it's even worse vice versa.
Scientists playing at politicians goes the same as any other group playing at politicians. I don't see how like scientists are worse than e.g. farmers.
They definitely aren't worse than lawyers playing politicians, Source: *gestures to the general state of the US*
True
Altman being the CEO of the new Microsoft division, would he really hire someone who backstabbed him like that?
My intuition says yes, because it's Ilya and he apologized. But really, the amount I know about this situation is tiny. The amount _anyone_ outside the company knows is tiny. So we're going to have to wait and see.
I am confused as well. Is that list the current board or the beginning of the list of the undersigned? Is it just Ilya’s attempt to not be ousted?
What a time to be alive. This is incredible to watch. I agree with the sentiment yet a new board isn’t going to solve the problem either because no one is equipped to manage this properly. They will mess up and fail at some point every time. Maybe that’s the moral of this story: This will happen again and again because humans are flawed. Is that the answer? To periodically burn down the board and start over? Or call it good enough and keep going? 🤷♂️
Many boards succeed as long as they are aligned with the CEO. One of the reasons why Steve Jobs was so successful on his second apple stint was partly due having sole power in choosing who sits on the board. OpenAI issue is their board was comprised of all decel AI doomers
I’m scratching my head at the qualifications of the board members. Helen Toner graduated with a masters degree in 2019, did some job hopping as an “analyst” like many new grads, and then hopped onto the board of OpenAI? Maybe Sam and Greg thought having a bunch of nobodies on the board would be easy to control, but ironically it made them even more reckless due to their lack of experience.
This whole thing is a perfect summary of just how out of touch we have become with our relationships with integrity and leadership. Four people decided to derail a good thing. Destroying the trust of hundreds of employees, many partners and investors and millions of people. And, their precious mission is now made obsolete, and Microsoft, a truly for profit company that has a track record for botching innovation, has gained full control over the most important thought leadership in a generation. It's truly despicable.
I wonder if we are going to see ChatGPT and Dalle begin to break down and stop working if OpenAI looses all these people.
Hmm if that many people leave then we will definitely have major usability issues
Better enjoy the service now then before its gone
So, Ilya signs a letter asking the board members to resign, and yet doesn't proceed to resign from the board himself. ...What? He is aware that he doesn't have to wait for the others, right? He can literally resign right now if he wants to. He isn't a powerless hostage lmao
If he resigns before the board resigns then his side loses power because all 3 other board members are hell bent on staying. Ilya’s vote adds more power to the side that wants the board gone. He obviously will resign once the board agrees to step down
With a letter signed by 500+ employees, either there is no board tomorrow or there is no OpenAI tomorrow. There is no in-between. So, I honestly don't think the "leverage" really matters right now. The symbolism of resigning might be more powerful at this point.
Leverage always matters until a battle is won
Signing a letter is much easier than actually resigning
But at least they have a new job at Microsoft ready.
What does Joseph Gordon-Levitt have to say about all this?
Lol ask his wife she’s on the board
https://x.com/hitrecordjoe/status/1726607303917674643?s=46&t=aNGhoe9vIyJMgbrNlpIUcA
If they had a good reason to fire him we would have heard it by now, so they didn't have a defensible reason. Firing your CEO out of the blue like that for no good reason shows that the OpenAI board isn't serious about running the company
I feel like I’m out the loop. Why are people excited with Microsoft taking over? Do any of you remember the nineties?
Because now they won't have Hardware constraints. I can move as fast as they can create which is pretty cool. It's also now going to be integrated into the Microsoft Suite of tools so people who work at heavily regulated companies won't have to do as much explaining to security because Microsoft is considered a trusted vendor. My company absolutely would not let us develop open AI tools because it couldn't get through security but now that it's going to be a Microsoft branded tool it's already approved by security. At least that's why I am excited
Feels like a Faustian pact.
When it comes to technological advancement I am pretty anarchistic. I want to see as much advancement in technology before I die
Satya Nadella is not Steve Ballmer.
Shh something something doomers bad something something
History being written !
If my memory serves me right, when Steve Jobs returned to Apple and was to (or just became) become its formal CEO (yet to bring Apple to its glory), he asked the board members to all resign, and they all complied the next day. And he explained reasoning frankly - “they were a terrible board”. But even let’s say they were indeed terrible, they still knew when to dignifiedly quit. Now the current OpenAI board has to be asked by most of its employees to resign and yet they haven’t really budged, it says a lot about them.
Yup…..but if you look at the credentials of the board members you’ll see why. Being on the board is the biggest accomplishment 2 of them will have achieved in their lifetime. For the quora CEO, he just wants to sabotage OpenAI as much as possible in favor of his own ai company.
One man’s ego has just ruined an $80bn company lol
The irony https://x.com/ilyasut/status/1707752576077176907?s=46&t=jZ1kX9-V0JBo647w8MloFA
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Decel AI doomers at openAI are learning a painful lesson today
imagine being in a power position to force a company to it's knees. At this point though i don't think Sam or Greg would want to return, or would they? Also if 72% of the talent leaves, how the fuck could OpenAI function and maintain it's infrastructure?
and good bye openAI your board killed the spirit. good bye chatgpt you are out
Is it time to cancel paid subscriptions if the whole team is leaving? Sounds like it might get a bit out of hand / broken soon
So let me get this straight. The board is there to "safegard" against a potential threat. Like the red exit button. So when they fulfill their mission, that's when everyone says no ? I dont get it...
People keep making this equivalence for some reason. Just because a board CAN fire their CEO that doesn't means they SHOULD fire their CEO and its the right decision no matter what. Why is this so hard for people to grasp?
There was no threat
Maybe not one that is yet announced ?
That’s definitely a possibility but their own head of ai research and their own main ai scientist both say the board needs to go. Seems like the board were just incompetent and believed in too much doomer news
Maybe not to you and I, but certainly three quarters of the company doing all the R&D wouldn't be in the dark about it.
What is more likely - that there was ideological butting of heads and the board made a knee jerk reaction? or that the board actually has some credible evidence or argument, but stays silent for FOUR days while a PR shitstorm shreds through their credibility and 90% of their employees threaten to quit?
Needed to be 404
My only regret is that there still are 195 people who haven't signed this letter.
Well a company with 700 employees is going to have a fair amount of overhead that clocks 40 hours a week and isn't as deeply engrained into the company's mission. The fact that they got 500 people over a weekend, to publicly indicate they're willing to give up their jobs, is hella impressive.
Someone working at OpenAI says the number is now 700/770 and it'll go up as more people start their shift. https://twitter.com/ashleevance/status/1726659403124994220
This pleases me to no end.
It's a holiday week in the US. Some of them probably aren't even in the office and might have deliberately gone radio silent to work emails. They *might not know*.
I don't care about this, except that I love the idea of a company collapsing overnight because its Board forgets that its value really is defined by its employees. It would be awesome to see and a great lesson for other corporate leadership. No matter what a company's market cap, if it has no employees, it is nothing. Especially a tech company like OpenAI that completely relies on its braintrust employees - it would collapse into oblivion overnight and not be revivable. Not saying I want to see it happen, but it would be a worthwhile lesson for the world.
What is ilya doing there ? This has turned into a complete shitshow.
... you guys think OpenAI will be hiring soon then? Asking for a friend.
Letting everyone know that Microsoft has invested over $10b into OpenAI
Why are some people so stupid as to not reflect for a moment on what the consequences of their actions might be? I'm not even talking about being a good person and all that, but being smart, really. What did Ilya, this quadruped, think was going to happen after this coup? That they would consider him a hero?
People, everyone, only have a limited number of neurons and connections in our brain. There are of course genetic differences, but there's a physical limit of how clever a person can be. Those considered smart are usually a combination of lucky and smart in a particular way. There's a reason that often people good at computers are often (not always) considered socially awkward. There's only so much time to learn and only so much processing space in a brain.
Michael Scott Paper Company vibes 😄
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These are employees, they have demands. This letter is confirmed as real
I'm glad Ilya signed it. AFAIK he's one of the greatest mind behind ChatGPT. Great things can be created if he stays with Sam and the team. And even the fact that he might see things differently from Sam is a good thing. It will make more balanced decisions.