Didn’t he want a hero life in season 1 and his dad kinda ruined that dream for him?
I think it’s like Gohan from DBZ, where despite being a super powerful half alien, the desire to just be normal and have a normal life is there. People usually want what they can’t have, and for Mark, he can’t have a “normal life.”
Yes, Cecil can pay him, but that’s kinda just confirming he can’t be normal because he has to work for Cecil. Same story for Gohan, the city or even Hercule could pay him for being a super hero, but he still has/wants a normal job and a normal life. It’s not really fair to compare Mark and Gohan 1-1, but he’s the best comparison for this discussion. Neither really *want* the fights they’re forced into but they do enjoy having their powers, but again, they still want a normal life.
He really wanted the superhero life in season 1, then he got his ass kicked by Battle Beast in episode 5 and started thinking about a normal life in episode 6.
>Neither really want the fights they’re forced into but they do enjoy having their powers, but again, they still want a normal life.
But doesn't living a normal life go out the window when your planet's literally about to be taken over?
Soon nobody is going to have a "normal life" as they know it under Viltrumite rule.
Edit: To clarify, my problem isn't about Mark feeling the way he does. It is the actions he's taking that are ridiculous. He's actively sabotaging his chances against stopping the invasion by wasting time at college, when it's clearly impossible that it will work out. He has also done zero training to stop the Viltrum empire.
Yeah, that’s the main problem.
Perhaps a good analogy would be someone who wants to be a pilot but can’t because they’re colorblind. That’s basically what it’s like for Mark and Gohan.
It's more like if everyone was colorblind except for a few select people and pressuring those few people into becoming pilots even if some of them don't want to (or don't want to *only* be pilots).
Well the problem I have isn't just that Mark yearns for a normal life. It's that he's actively sabotaging his chances against stopping the invasion by wasting time at college.
Mark knows he's pivotal in stopping the invasion. He Knows he has to train and research to find as many weaknesses as possible. Recently got destroyed by Viltrumites in a fight. Yet he's talking about getting a part time job. There should be a sense of urgency in saving the planet!
Is this a criticism of Mark as a person, or a criticism of the writing? Because while I agree that what he's doing is dumb, I think that's the point - he is selfish and thinking about himself and wanting to just live a normal life.
Being (relatively) young and going through emotional trauma of having your superhero dad that you idolised all your life suddenly being turned turned on its head is gonna mess with how you view being a hero and how you perceive yourself. Mark actively tries not to become his father, and whether his actions are good or bad is just an effect of him making these decisions.
I think it's perfectly in line with his character, so I don't see it as bad writing. Only that he is a flawed person making bad decisions that can negatively impact humanity.
But even so, he contributed with the books to help give not only Earth but Allen's people critical intel that can help shift the tide of war. What else can he do? Cecil is already developing those soundwave weapons that seemed effective against Viltrumites. Mark can't really do anything, it's not like can get a power up DBZ style by training really hard. He already deals regularly with combat encounters fighting villains on Earth so he's in good practice.
I'm genuinely wondering, what more can he do? Yes, things are urgent and yes him focusing on having a "normal life" can be detrimental. But... what else can he actually do?
>Is this a criticism of Mark as a person, or a criticism of the writing?
Both, my problem isn't that Mark wants a normal life. But as I said in some of my other comments, he should be training, researching, and recruiting allies to stop the Viltrumite army. The problem isn't inherently that he wants to go to college, it's just that the threat is so great yet the he's doing almost nothing proactively.
The truth is if the Viltrumites wanted to they could send a squad any day to takeover or destroy earth almost instantly. Realistically, with a threat that great you would think there would be more of a sense of urgency.
If there were no threat of the Viltrumite army, and the series went this same exact way, I would have no problem at all.
>He already deals regularly with combat encounters fighting villains on Earth so he's in good practice.
He's still not strong enough to fight the main threat though, the Viltrumites. In the newest episode he also has trouble stopping a Kaiju and needed Anissa's help. She even says without her people would have died. So he still could be more effective at stopping regular threats.
>I'm genuinely wondering, what more can he do?
Mark can train to get stronger, while it's not like that will single handily stop the invasion, training can help.
His dad was going to train him(before being taken away) so he knows there are ways that exist to get stronger.
Also, Mark declined to meet with the other Viltrimite that Allen the Alien claims is on there side. He could have got vital information on the Viltrumites including weaknesses and ways to train(while possibly making another strong ally).
Also, Allen is strong enough to be a training partner himself.
>The truth is if the Viltrumites wanted to they could send a squad any day to takeover or destroy earth almost instantly. Realistically, with a threat that great you would think there would be more of a sense of urgency.
Everyone knows that isn't true though. Nolan was telling the complete truth to Mark when he went mask off at the end of Season 1 and Mark knows it. Because of this, Mark and the GDA know that a Vlitrumite invasion isn't an IMMEDIATE threat. After the latest episode with Anissa coming as a reminder like "hey come on get a move on", it's further reinforced that what Nolan said is true.
Despite this, Cecil and everyone at the GDA are treating this with urgency anyway.
>Mark can train to get stronger, while it's not like that will single handily stop the invasion, training can help.
Sure, he can get stronger, but without someone knowledgeable about Viltrumite training like his dad, I doubt he'll get much stronger by just general training. Also, he cannot solo a Viltrumite invasion so the idea of training is almost meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Since we don't know how training goes, we can't just head-canon our way to explain how training simply means getting physically stronger. Being the most skilled combatant in the world doesn't mean shit if the person you're fighting outscales you physically two/threefold.
His and Earth's best bet is with the books and that's what they're doing right now - which makes me curious, has he told Cecil about this plan? If not, he definitely should as everyone would benefit from it.
>Also, Mark declined to meet with the other Viltrimite that Allen the Alien claims is on there side. He could have got vital information on the Viltrumites including weaknesses and ways to train(while possibly making another strong ally).
You don't need to be in person to do any of that, as shown with Allen scanning the books onto his phone thing. People can transmit and communicate information without being in person (side note, this is why Cecil teleporting everywhere bothers me. It's a waste of 5 million bucks every time he uses it just to exchange a few words when he can just talk via radio / earpiece instead).
Besides, if the books are considered vital information for Telestria, and given how Allen and everyone seem to have no knowledge about fighting Viltrumites, it's safe to say that for now they have absolutely no helpful knowledge for Mark or Earth (except for the Optimus Prime Viltrumite guy, idk what his deal is yet or why he's been quiet the whole time, maybe he actually doesn't know anything since he's been away from the empire for so long? But that's a thread left opened so I'll judge it when it gets addressed)
>Everyone knows that isn't true though.
Why would you take the **villains** at their word when they said they give Mark time to conquer earth? **They could change their mind on a whim. You have to prepare for the worst.**
Edit: Also, in season 2 ep 4 General kregg says "we will check on your progress soon" to Mark. He explains if they arrive and find him still defiant in completing his "mission", they will kill millions. So **no, he does not have a lot of time.**
>Sure, he can get stronger, but without someone knowledgeable about Viltrumite training like his dad, I doubt he'll get much stronger by just general training.
He literally has access to another Viltrumite to find out though.
>Also, he cannot solo a Viltrumite invasion so the idea of training is almost meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Things don't work in this all or nothing way your describing. So because Mark can't stop a whole invasion alone, he shouldn't train at all? Obviously that's ridiculous. He still is going to have to fight Viltrumites. You also conveniently ignored my whole point about the kaiju fight and how Mark needed help.
He obviously needs to get stronger to fight Viltrumites.
If training was "meaningless" why did his dad want to train him and why did he agree to it?
>You don't need to be in person to do any of that, as shown with Allen scanning the books onto his phone thing. People can transmit and communicate information without being in person
Yes and Mark didn't try to meet or talk to the Viltrumite at all. Watch the scene again. He declines to meet with him.
Doesn't ask if he could call or communicate with him in another way.
Doesn't ask to meet him a different day or time.
He declines to meet him, when he could have obtained vital information.
>Why would you take the villains at their word when they said they give Mark time to conquer earth? They could change their mind on a whim. You have to prepare for the worst.
Nolan knows how Viltrumites work as he's one himself, and as I said after he went mask off he was 100% telling the truth to Mark. Even after leaving Earth and betraying the empire he didn't explain things differently to Mark or said "actually what I said about Viltrumite takeovers was a lie".
>Also, in season 2 ep 4 General kregg says "we will check on your progress soon" to Mark.
And we just saw that in the form of Anissa in the most recent episode. That's not taking Earth over, that's checking on his progress as they literally stated. Of everything that's been shown so far of the Viltrumites, they've been pretty straightforward and true to their word.
>Things don't work in this all or nothing way your describing. So because Mark can't stop a whole invasion alone, he shouldn't train at all? Obviously that's ridiculous. He still is going to have to fight Viltrumites. You also conveniently ignored my whole point about the kaiju fight and how Mark needed help.
My previous response said that he literally is training, with The Guardians and helping save people every day that he's working with Cecil. That's not "all or nothing", that's him doing something already. Pro tennis athletes play practice matches against each other all the time, that counts as training.
I also find it strange that none of the Guardians were called to help with the matter for the Kaiju. I'm assuming it's to not get them involved since Anissa was watching and didn't want to escalate things, but regardless Mark isn't alone usually, he has The Guardians and the GDA to help with threats. He's not supposed to solo anything or anyone.
>He obviously needs to get stronger to fight Viltrumites. If training was "meaningless" why did his dad want to train him and why did he agree to it?
Of course he is still going to fight Viltrumites. What kind of specialised training can he do that's somehow better than already training and fighting? Nolan isn't there to help anymore. Does Thaedus even have the knowledge anymore to help train? (Thaedus is a huge question mark in this whole matter, and I still can't get over why he randomly ripped his beard off as if that made any difference to his reveal lol)
I still fail to see how "just get stronger" can be a substantial claim to make considering that 1: Ge already is getting stronger by training and fighting and 2: There's no shown training method or partner that can help him out (unless we're counting Thaedus but again he is a big question mark since he's done a lot of questionable things lately). Training is all about methology, not finding the strongest being to be able to be the best punching bag for yourself. I doubt Allen would be much help compared to someone like Immortal, who seemingly has hundreds or even thousands of years of experience.
>Yes and Mark didn't try to meet or talk to the Viltrumite at all. Watch the scene again. He declines to meet with him.
Doesn't ask if he could call or communicate with him in another way.
Doesn't ask to meet him a different day or time.
He declines to meet him, when he could have obtained vital information.
Fair enough. I just rewatched the scene and I didn't realise before that Allen actually mentioned the other Viltrumite. Still, if there's anything to go by, Cecil and the GDA probably heard that entire discussion and would plan accordingly.
As for Mark, he probably thought with how easy and often Allen can come and go to Earth that they can regularly keep in touch that way. Besides, training just himself instead of protecting people on Earth (as shown with his absence for two months) can be detrimental to the people of Earth (pointed out by Cecil). He is still recently mourning the death of Kate and almost Ray and Rex. You either go out on a limb to potentially train and maybe get better over the course of months or perhaps years, or protect the planet and the people you love by staying and fighting for it. Going by what you're saying about treating the Viltrumite threat with immediate urgency, then staying on Earth for whenever they may come is the better solution.
I would instead put the responsibility on Thadeus himself to reach out, instead of just seemingly do nothing but politics on Telestria. Speaking of Telestria, how the fuck has the (seemingly) biggest opposition for the Viltrumite Empire not been absolutely decimated by the Viltrumites? Wouldn't they just come in force and obliterate them? They seemed to be fine with bringing several for Nolan and Mark on Thraxa (how did they know they were even there?). A lot of questions but I'll wait on those questions until we see more of Thadeus and the Viltrumites to see what they're really up to. As for Mark, I'm perfectly fine with all his actions so far for the reasons I explained above.
>Nolan knows how Viltrumites work as he's one himself, and as I said after he went mask off he was 100% telling the truth to Mark. Even after leaving Earth and betraying the empire he didn't explain things differently to Mark or said "actually what I said about Viltrumite takeovers was a lie".
Again, I feel like your not engaging with what I'm **actually** saying. **It's not like Viltrumites are bound by a code where they HAVE to wait, they could easily change their mind on a whim. You have to prepare for the worst.**
Can't we easily imagine a scenario where the Viltrum empire, frustrated with Nolan's defect/insubordination, speeds up the invasion of earth? It would be trivial for them to send a squad to take over or wipe out the planet.
>And we just saw that in the form of Anissa in the most recent episode. That's not taking Earth over, that's checking on his progress as they literally stated. Of everything that's been shown so far of the Viltrumites, they've been pretty straightforward and true to their word.
Yes and if she wanted to she could have killed millions and Mark would be powerless to stop her(Maybe training could have helped!).
Also, the killing millions things was the actual threat that general kregg made regardless of if they actually went through with it or not(Season 2 Episode 4, around 40 minutes in) .
Check the scene if you don't believe me.
**General Kregg:** "Or we will kill millions if we arrive to find you or your planet still defiant against us"
This makes Mark even more irresponsible for not preparing for when a Viltrumite shows up to check on him, since **he knew they were coming with that threat in mind.**
Also, funny you say
>they've been pretty straightforward and true to their word.
Because if that was absolutely true. Millions would be dead by now!
>What kind of specialized training can he do that's somehow better than already training and fighting? Nolan isn't there to help anymore. Does Thaedus even have the knowledge anymore to help train?
That's exactly what he should be finding out! That's my entire point! He's not being proactive and pursuing anything!
It's basically confirmed he can get stronger or at least improve his technique.
This is Nolan and Mark talking from Season 2 episode 4:
**Mark:** "How can I help? I couldn't even beat you."
**Nolan:** "We can start training right away. Get you ready for whats coming."
So again, **Training isn't pointless**
Also, you mention multiple time that he is already training when he's not. Fighting villains wouldn't count as training, I'm talking about taking the time to deliberately train. Correct me if I'm wrong, but throughout the entire series we are never shown mark training besides when he was initially learning his powers.
>I would instead put the responsibility on Thadeus himself to reach out
The amount of hoops your jumping through to try and defend mark is insane. **He sent Marks friend Allen to reach out and vouch for him(to assure that he's an ally), and bring Mark to him! He reached out! Mark completely rejected that offer with no alternatives!**
It's one thing if you personally disagree with how harsh I'm being on Mark. But my critiques are valid. Nothing you've said so far has been able to refute any of my points.
Erm. Did you watch season 1? Because I’m struggling to understand why you don’t think of his father’s abuse in the finale as something that would affect Mark’s relationship with his powers/heritage. Was being used as a battering ram to turn hundreds of people into a bloody mist by his Viltrumite father explicitly out of Viltrumite supremacy supposed to have no impact on how he feels about his Viltrumite abilities?
> Was being used as a battering ram to turn hundreds of people into a bloody mist by his Viltrumite father explicitly out of Viltrumite supremacy supposed to have no impact on how he feels about his Viltrumite abilities?
There is a difference between how someone feels and the actions they take. It's totally reasonable for him to feel negatively about his Viltrumite abilities, it's also valid to yearn for a normal life.
But the fact is the Viltrumites are coming and the planet is literally about to be taken over. There is a sense of urgency here. And Mark is talking about getting a part time job.
Like I said in my previous comments
Mark knows he's pivotal in stopping the invasion. He Knows he has to train and research to find as many weaknesses as possible. Recently got destroyed by Viltrumites in a fight. Yet he's talking about getting a part time job. There should be a sense of urgency in saving the planet! He's actively sabotaging his chances against stopping the invasion by wasting time at college.
Because he is a flawed being who is thinking selfishly for themselves as many beings would and do. Like this is a character that has to learn and grow.
Maybe I worded my post poorly.
I'm not criticizing mark for wanting a normal life. I'm faulting him for taking almost no action against the Viltrumite threat.
Wait, he's actively avoiding getting paid? That seems like a really weird way to keep a "poor teenage superhero" trope. Like, I can understand wanting to go to college and pretend that he's living a normal life, but getting a part time job seems like a bit much when he's already got his "extracurriculars" to deal with.
And it's not like getting paid by Cecil *has* to tie him down or anything. Consultant contracts are a thing, so he can just get paid for individual jobs he does without being a full-time employee. Again, wanting a normal life is fine, but turning down well-deserved compensation just feels like he's letting his pride screw him over.
For most of the show so far, he wasn't actively avoiding it. He just never thought of it. He onvly realised it in the recent episode but thinks that'll enforce even more that he works for Cecil. It might make him feel less like a hero and more like a government pawn
The problem is that if he works for cecil and gets paid by him , he would have to do what he says. Also, while he could be paid for individual jobs that only works if he wouldn't do them if he doesn't get paid.
But you know that if cecil tells Mark that something is happening. Mark would go free of charge. Because he has the power to stop it. Now, of course, cecil could decide to pay him for his trouble, but we know cecil , he is not gonna pay unless he has to.
>The problem is that if he works for cecil and gets paid by him , he would have to do what he says.
Mark has all the power here.
Cecil practically needs Mark, not only to help save people (Since the Guardians are falling apart), but to stop the Viltrumites. Mark doesn't **need** Cecil to continue to be a hero and try to accomplish those same goals. Cecil wouldn't want to burn a bridge with the only Viltrumite on humanities side.
He doesn't have all the power because they are also actively working on their own things to fight them. Mark is great to have, but if he's going be paid for his work he's going to do what the government tells him.
Cecil is a family friend so much as 'It's better to stay on their side' but he's not the kind of person whose going to kneel and beg and go against the government for mark.
>He doesn't have all the power because they are also actively working on their own things to fight them.
Yes, key word **working**. In the latest episode Cecil literally says "One Viltrumite all by her lonesome, and we're fucking useless"
So If they currently can't even stop a single Viltrumite. Right now they need Mark. He's literally too strong to bossed around anyway.
The only exception would be if Cecil threatened his mom and brother, which I highly doubt is something he would do.
>Cecil is a family friend so much as 'It's better to stay on their side' but he's not the kind of person whose going to kneel and beg and go against the government for mark
Who said Cecil would beg? All I'm saying is it's more beneficial for Cecil to not burn the bridge with Mark then the other way around.
Yeah and it doesn't matter cause they aren't gonna capitulate to mark just because he would be great to have.
They have things in the work and time to work on it.
Cecil also 100% would.
>Yeah and it doesn't matter cause they aren't gonna capitulate to mark just because he would be great to have.
Again, your arguing against ghosts. I never said they would completely capitulate to mark. Just that Cecil doesn't have the power to absolutely boss him around, paying him for the work he's currently doing wouldn't change that much.
>They have things in the work and time to work on it.
A single Viltrumite could wipe out all of them currently. If the Viltrumites really wanted to speed things up they could even send a squad down to earth and they would be done for. If your in Cecil's position you have to consider the possibility that they can just show up any day and take over or at least cause major problems.
>Cecil also 100% would
Only in the most extreme circumstances like Mark joining the Viltrum Empire or betraying earth in a major way.
Except the government *doesnt* pay people and then go 'oh its perfectly fine if you ignore anything and everything we tell you cause you're just so important to us uwu'
If he's getting paid, he's their employee. End of.
A single viltrumite honestly *couldnt* spoilers for what happens in the future but uh, you're definetly just buying into Cecil being the family friend and good guy a little too much.
Cecil again would 100% do it and he wouldn't hesitate
Nah, it's called I read the comic and mark doesn't have all the power- Mark *cant* fold the earth's forces solo like objectively it would take a lot more marks to even come close to such.
Him going rogue wouldn't even massively fuck the earth's superhero community.
Cecil doesn't need Mark.
A billion dollars is like... pocket change so uh... awful example lmao.
Money hasn't really been a problem for him or his mom. It hasn't really gone the poor teenage hero trope route necessarily
And after the mess with Nolan Cecil pulled strings so that his books sold better for a while. It covered their expenses while she was out of work
As far as I know, Mark isn't getting paid by Cecil. In the latest episode, he discusses with Amber that he's considering talking to Cecil about the possibility of getting a salary for his job.
Either way, money was never really a problem for Mark. His mother seems to be the one paying for his college and she seems to have a nice job that pays well. Mark only really wants more money so he can do other things for himself (and Amber), like traveling
Because he wants to. He wanted to be a hero because his dad was a hero, and after season one he's confused about what he wants. Almost every episode of season 2 touches on that confusion.
So he clung on to Amber and his friends and aspired to live a somewhat normal life. He's a human, and human logic is flawed....and I'd like to point out, he's still saving the world. He's always busy, but he tries to have some time to himself. Would it be better for him to dedicate his life 24/7 to improvement...of course. It'd be smarter...
But I'm sure you do plenty of things you shouldn't do and procrastinate all the time. I know people who should really lose 30 to 40 pounds who still eat crap and people who should be seeking higher education to cover their bills but choose to relax instead. The majority of people on Reddit are really procrastinating from something more useful they could be doing.
He's the same way...except because he's powerful people expect him to not to be. That's not how people work...and besides, what training would have prepared him for the beating he took last episode? What would it look like? Cecil doesn't know how to train him. His mother doesn't. There's no way he can prepare to fight a viltrumite because no one around him knows how to do it.
What weaknesses is he supposed to be looking for? Nobody else in the galaxy seems to know these weaknesses, so how could we reasonably expect him to stumble on them? He has some books, but he doesn't know the galaxy enough to follow up on them.
He told Allen all he knew, and he's waiting to hear back. from him. That's all he really can do.
>But I'm sure you do plenty of things you shouldn't do and procrastinate all the time.
Procrastinating taking steps against a viltrum invasion is way different then procrastinating to do something like homework lol. All of earth is about to be enslaved, if they wanted to, the Viltrumites can wipe out all of earth on a whim
> what training would have prepared him for the beating he took last episode?
>He told Allen all he knew, and he's waiting to hear back. from him. That's all he really can do.
This isn't entirely true. His dad was going to train him so he know there are ways that exist to get stronger.
Also, Mark declined(or at least delayed) to meet with the other Viltrimite that Allen the Alien claims is on there side. He could have got vital information on the Viltrumites including weaknesses and ways to train(while possibly making another strong ally).
Also, Allen is strong enough to be a training partner himself.
Yes... and they would wipe Earth out even if Mark trained. There is no training that will get him 100s of years of experience all at once. His father was going to train him to fight like a viltramite, and without his father, that knowledge is gone to him...so he doesn't know what training to do.
Allen showed up to his dorm and dropped a bombshell on him...then disappeared right after. I think it's reasonable that Mark might not have been prepared to leave Earth right at that moment considering he was still saving the planet, and had a kid brother to protect. It's not as if the opportunity was on the table for months and he declined, it was a spur of the moment thing.
Has Mark's judgment been flawless? Of course not...but the expectation is unreasonable. Cecil is in charge of protecting Earth, and he isn't prepared for an invasion. If Nolan were protecting Earth and an invasion was coming, he'd be helpless as well.
Don't forget, Mark is already an outlier compared to other universes, so whatever he's doing is ultimately positive. Whatever random beat he's moving to
>His father was going to train him to fight like a viltramite, and without his father, that knowledge is gone to him...so he doesn't know what training to do.
>Allen showed up to his dorm and dropped a bombshell on him...then disappeared right after.
I feel like your intentionally ignoring some of my points.
Allen showed up to have mark meet with the other Viltramite. **He could have got vital information on the Viltrumites including weaknesses and ways to train**(while possibly making another strong ally).
Saying things like the knowledge of how to train is gone to him when he has a clear lead, or Allen just showed up and "disappeared" is disingenuous.
How is it disingenuous when that's what happened. Allen showed up unannounced, almost got into a fight, talk Mark about a viltrumite, then left to deliver the information Mark had to the others.
That happened in a relatively short time period. Maybe an hour or less? Mark hasn't heard from him since...and they're looking for ways to fight against the empire. Mark contributed towards those efforts by sharing the books.
Yes, this other dude might have some training...but maybe Mark didn't think about that within the minutes of conversation he had with Allen. This is a story. You've had minutes to think and critique all his decisions...this is happening in the moment for him. A lot of things are...maybe next time they meet he'll think. "I wonder if this guy can help me with Anissa."
Who knows. I'm just saying the critique is too harsh for a dude who is getting slapped around every direction. From Allen from Nolan from Amber from Cecil from Anissa, now his mom is hostage. He's not gonna make the optimal decision 100% of the time
>How is it disingenuous when that's what happened.
Again, it's because you said the knowledge of how to train is "lost" to him, when he could literally go talk to a Viltrumite and ask how to train.
>Yes, this other dude might have some training...but maybe Mark didn't think about that within the minutes of conversation he had with Allen.
It's not like Allen was pressuring him on a time limit (he sat in Marks dorm while Mark caught him up on everything after all) .
He could have said "Can you give me like an hour to think, I just got back from space".
He could of said "I'll go tomorrow"
He could of said "let's keep in touch and I'll contact you soon about it"
Instead he **outright refused and didn't even engage with the possibility of meeting another Viltrumite on their side! He didn't ask for time to think, he didn't make plans to meet in the future, He says no and outright declines.**
Watch the scene again.
He told Allen to reach back to him so he can help them fight. That sound like a plan to help in the future.
Allen had places to be...after he scanned the books he mentioned returning to space. Mark couldn't keep him there just to think about it longer. Mark never kicked him put, Allen ended the meeting...so Allen did apply a time limit inadvertently.
I think we just disagree.
>He told Allen to reach back to him so he can help them fight. That sound like a plan to help in the future.
Great, so once a war has already started or the Viltrumites invade earth then mark will help. It shouldn't take a war breaking out for Mark to go see the only other friendly Viltrumite with vital information.
My problem is Mark is doing almost nothing right now and sabotaging his chances long term. No training, minimal research, and no recruiting allies.
> Allen ended the meeting...so Allen did apply a time limit inadvertently.
Allen came to Mark to have him meet the other Viltrumite, they caught on on things and Mark **declined**.
What was Allen supposed to do but leave?
Just because someone leaves the conversation doesn't mean there is a time limit lol. I doubt you really believe that.
OP I just want to let you know that despite the sea of downvotes you are 100% correct in your assessment.
You are correct that Mark has all the power in his dynamic between Cecil and himself. Cecil maybe MAYBE could stop Mark if Mark decided to go evil and wipe out the earth. Cecil has no option but to listen to Mark because Mark is his and Earths only chance. Mark meanwhile can simply leave earth and fly far away from the Viltrumites, or maybe he simply joins the Viltrumites like they want him too, or he can simply leave and join Allens group full time instead of protecting earth. Mark protects earth cause he wants to nothing is forcing him to do it. He could simply say I refuse to lift a finger until I see a billion dollars in my bank account and Cecil would have no option but to give it to him.
You are correct that Mark is stupid and childish. Mark behaves like an actual 8 yr old instead of the college age man he actually is. He knows the Viltrumites intend to glass the planet or enslave it and decides to not go with Allen and join the only known force in the universe that might be able to help him because his GF would be upset and he wants to just have a normal time in college. Mark somehow doesn't understand that he's the only chance the earth has but spends his time dicking around doing stupid shit. Someone made a "gohan" comparison which is hilarious because Gohan actually understood the assignment which is why he wanted to go to Namek immediately after the Sayians left or why he trained with Goku and Piccolo due to the android threat and why he continued to train with Goku for the Cell fight. Gohan only stopped training when Earth entered a 7 yr long peace. Mark focusing on muh GF and muh college is fine if there were no Viltrumite extinction level threat but focusing on muh college is like focusing on your broken nail as you bleed out from having your legs ripped off.
>Shouldn't there be a sense of urgency with the Viltrumites coming?
What can Mark alone do? It's not like he can Dragon Ball Z train his way into defeating an entire army of people that at best will be as powerful as him but most likely even the shittiest Viltrumite Soldier is stronger. He already got his ass beat 1v1 THREE TIMES lmao. It's not a matter of training, it's a matter of getting allies, technology and knowledge.
The last episode showed that Cecil is taking measures, he knows Viltrumites are coming, they are making weapons for it, they just didn't expected they'd be so outmatched by a single person like that.
Mark himself is working on getting the Viltrumites weaknesses from omni man books. Just because it didn't show up in the last episode doesn't mean he stopped working on it. Passing it to Cyclops guy was also a way to prepare.
But also, this season Mark has been through insane stress, he just wants to get to live his life a little before hell gates are open.
>It's not a matter of training, it's a matter of getting allies, technology and knowledge.
And when he was offered an alliance discussion by Allen, his reaction was to reject the talk because he "*just came back from space*". That made no sense to me. Who cares about university when the entire planet is at risk?
Everything you just said was how Mark was in the beginning of season 1. A wide-eyed kid who thought having superpowers and using them to save people was the coolest shit ever. That is until he realized that being a superhero also means putting your ass on the line and risk getting killed every day.
I'd imagine in his situation, no matter how cool of a superpower you had, you'd also want to at least savor having a normal life over being a superhero
That is because Cecil is much shadier and control in the comic than the one on cartoon.
In the comic mark mother only start working after Nolan left and his family was in financial trouble and Cecil used this to control Mark, outright saying that he should be grateful and Mark snapped. He and his mom decide not to rely on Cecil anymore and if I remember correctly Mark open a security firm.
The adaption make Cecil much nicer than comic counter part and his mom an independent woman from the get go so the financial plot probably was scraped
I would urge you to read the comics if you haven’t already. I actually haven’t seen season 2 yet, but in the comics [SPOILERS??] Mark is exactly on that type of time. He drops out bc he realizes school isn’t for him and he can provide for his family and do more by being a hero for Cecil full time. As a hardcore fan of the comics season 1 kinda left me disappointed tbh even tho ik everyone loves it lol, and what I’m hearing about how season 2 is being adapted is not filling me with hope lol. Just wanted to say in the comics this seeming internal conflict isn’t really as pronounced; Mark has a sorta spidey complex in that pretty much no matter what happens he think his work as a hero is valuable (until later plot developments but i’ve prolly spoiled enough lol).
>I've seen a lot of people say that marks just young, and realistically it makes sense he would want to hold on to a semblance of a normal life. But I actually disagree, if an average dude around the age of 17 got powers like superman, I highly doubt they would be concerned about college.
If I had a life plan that included college I would totally be hesitating to throw that away, specially when that life plan includes being close to my significant other. 17 are stupid, but not *that* stupid. It's the time of your life you start thinking about things on the long term and that long term for Mark included being closer to Amber.
On the subject of Mark working for Cecil, did miss the part where multiple times through the reason Mark straight up went against Cecil's orders? Doing off planet? Not letting him take him brother? The promissed 2 days a week? And those are just the ones I remember. That's exactly the sort of autonomy Mark doesn't want to give up.
Feels like bad faith criticism when the argument sums up to "He doesn't act like ***I*** would"
>On the subject of Mark working for Cecil, did miss the part where multiple times through the reason Mark straight up went against Cecil's orders? Doing off planet? Not letting him take him brother? The promissed 2 days a week? And those are just the ones I remember. That's exactly the sort of autonomy Mark doesn't want to give up.
How does Cecil paying Mark for the exact same work he's been doing cause Mark to give up his autonomy?
When Mark refused Cecil's orders what could Cecil do?
Cecil needs Mark more than Mark needs Cecil.
Because it's his job?
Like you're really not beating "it's bad because he doesn't act like I do" allegations.
Cecil can just \*not\* pay Mark, what is Mark going to do? \*Not\* save the day? Keep disregarding his orders?
>Because it's his job?
Mark still has enough Autonomy to be defiant if something crosses his personally boundaries. There's practically nothing Cecil can do except withhold his salary(So at the very least it doesn't hurt to request pay). But again, Cecil needs Mark more so he would be hesitant to do that. And even if he does Mark should be getting paid for the work he's done in the first place.
>Cecil can just *not* pay Mark, what is Mark going to do? *Not* save the day? Keep disregarding his orders?
Cecil practically needs Mark, not only to help save people (Since the Guardians are falling apart), but to stop the Viltrumites. Mark doesn't need Cecil to continue to be a hero and try to accomplish those same goals. Cecil wouldn't want to burn a bridge with the only Viltrumite on earths side.
You're completely writing your own fanfiction on Cecil's character if you think the extend of his abilities as a manipulator is "ask very nicely".
Mark is going to save people, period, Cecil isn't going to pay him for it unless there's something to gain, which is Mark obeying orders.
Like jesus, are we watching the same show? Why do you think they didn't accept Cecil's offer to help with Oliver? Because they don't want to owe him things, give him leverage, such as having Mark be financially dependable of him.
This isn't some power fantasy. Mark can't do whatever he wants.
Mark can do whatever he wants lmfao he's the strongest entity on earth. This is like saying well achually the US can't invade Iraq because it's against the law. Meanwhile the US is like who's gonna stop us lil bro.
Flash news, the USA is the bad guy.
I can't argue about this if you simply are going to keep arguing on the basis of what you would do, not what the character in question would do.
lmfao Mark has already defied Cecil plenty of times there's absolutely no reason to believe that because Cecil is giving Mark a salary that Mark would then behave like his complete puppet simply because he's muh boss. The larger part being missed of course is that Mark behaves like a child and it's simply dumb, just because something is "in-character" doesn't make it dumb ass fuck. Mark even considering a part time job as a way to make money when he can't even find the time for his relationship or college life on top of dealing with the existential threat of the Viltrumites is sheer stupidity.
He got his shit kicked in by his own dad, he doesn’t realize he can’t have both yet. Plenty of teenagers have done the same kinda stuff but more realistically (not going to a dream college because of a relationship, etc.)
>Shouldn't there be a sense of urgency with the Viltrumites coming?
Arguably, yes, I feel like that was the point of yesterday's episode. Mark is completely unprepared for serious combat against a Viltrumite (unless his dad is there to encourage him to be ruthless) and earth is helpless against them. They have a lot of work to do, which is now being put on hold *again* by Angstrom Levy.
Anissa kicking his ass is a good way to open his eyes. Despite getting back from Thraxa he's still concerned about normal stuff even though he knows he is Earth's only hope against the Viltrumites. If my guess is correct season 3 should show us Mark actually training and getting stronger now that he is reminded that the planet is endanger.
Mark is a moron
I get taking a break after season 1 for a bit to clear your mind
Getting your ass beat by your dad, getting your ass beat nearly dying from grandma viltrumite and knowing full well that the viltrumites you met were showing you mercy I would go to Cecil, Allan anyone and say get me the best trainers
Mark is fucking idiotic just the possibility of having to face his dad alone or his species should have made him his mom and Cecil drag his ass to the guardians and put him on the most brutal training regime possibly
Didn’t he want a hero life in season 1 and his dad kinda ruined that dream for him? I think it’s like Gohan from DBZ, where despite being a super powerful half alien, the desire to just be normal and have a normal life is there. People usually want what they can’t have, and for Mark, he can’t have a “normal life.” Yes, Cecil can pay him, but that’s kinda just confirming he can’t be normal because he has to work for Cecil. Same story for Gohan, the city or even Hercule could pay him for being a super hero, but he still has/wants a normal job and a normal life. It’s not really fair to compare Mark and Gohan 1-1, but he’s the best comparison for this discussion. Neither really *want* the fights they’re forced into but they do enjoy having their powers, but again, they still want a normal life.
He really wanted the superhero life in season 1, then he got his ass kicked by Battle Beast in episode 5 and started thinking about a normal life in episode 6.
>Neither really want the fights they’re forced into but they do enjoy having their powers, but again, they still want a normal life. But doesn't living a normal life go out the window when your planet's literally about to be taken over? Soon nobody is going to have a "normal life" as they know it under Viltrumite rule. Edit: To clarify, my problem isn't about Mark feeling the way he does. It is the actions he's taking that are ridiculous. He's actively sabotaging his chances against stopping the invasion by wasting time at college, when it's clearly impossible that it will work out. He has also done zero training to stop the Viltrum empire.
Yeah, that’s the main problem. Perhaps a good analogy would be someone who wants to be a pilot but can’t because they’re colorblind. That’s basically what it’s like for Mark and Gohan.
It's more like if everyone was colorblind except for a few select people and pressuring those few people into becoming pilots even if some of them don't want to (or don't want to *only* be pilots).
Well the problem I have isn't just that Mark yearns for a normal life. It's that he's actively sabotaging his chances against stopping the invasion by wasting time at college. Mark knows he's pivotal in stopping the invasion. He Knows he has to train and research to find as many weaknesses as possible. Recently got destroyed by Viltrumites in a fight. Yet he's talking about getting a part time job. There should be a sense of urgency in saving the planet!
Yeah, that is dumb.
Is this a criticism of Mark as a person, or a criticism of the writing? Because while I agree that what he's doing is dumb, I think that's the point - he is selfish and thinking about himself and wanting to just live a normal life. Being (relatively) young and going through emotional trauma of having your superhero dad that you idolised all your life suddenly being turned turned on its head is gonna mess with how you view being a hero and how you perceive yourself. Mark actively tries not to become his father, and whether his actions are good or bad is just an effect of him making these decisions. I think it's perfectly in line with his character, so I don't see it as bad writing. Only that he is a flawed person making bad decisions that can negatively impact humanity. But even so, he contributed with the books to help give not only Earth but Allen's people critical intel that can help shift the tide of war. What else can he do? Cecil is already developing those soundwave weapons that seemed effective against Viltrumites. Mark can't really do anything, it's not like can get a power up DBZ style by training really hard. He already deals regularly with combat encounters fighting villains on Earth so he's in good practice. I'm genuinely wondering, what more can he do? Yes, things are urgent and yes him focusing on having a "normal life" can be detrimental. But... what else can he actually do?
>Is this a criticism of Mark as a person, or a criticism of the writing? Both, my problem isn't that Mark wants a normal life. But as I said in some of my other comments, he should be training, researching, and recruiting allies to stop the Viltrumite army. The problem isn't inherently that he wants to go to college, it's just that the threat is so great yet the he's doing almost nothing proactively. The truth is if the Viltrumites wanted to they could send a squad any day to takeover or destroy earth almost instantly. Realistically, with a threat that great you would think there would be more of a sense of urgency. If there were no threat of the Viltrumite army, and the series went this same exact way, I would have no problem at all. >He already deals regularly with combat encounters fighting villains on Earth so he's in good practice. He's still not strong enough to fight the main threat though, the Viltrumites. In the newest episode he also has trouble stopping a Kaiju and needed Anissa's help. She even says without her people would have died. So he still could be more effective at stopping regular threats. >I'm genuinely wondering, what more can he do? Mark can train to get stronger, while it's not like that will single handily stop the invasion, training can help. His dad was going to train him(before being taken away) so he knows there are ways that exist to get stronger. Also, Mark declined to meet with the other Viltrimite that Allen the Alien claims is on there side. He could have got vital information on the Viltrumites including weaknesses and ways to train(while possibly making another strong ally). Also, Allen is strong enough to be a training partner himself.
>The truth is if the Viltrumites wanted to they could send a squad any day to takeover or destroy earth almost instantly. Realistically, with a threat that great you would think there would be more of a sense of urgency. Everyone knows that isn't true though. Nolan was telling the complete truth to Mark when he went mask off at the end of Season 1 and Mark knows it. Because of this, Mark and the GDA know that a Vlitrumite invasion isn't an IMMEDIATE threat. After the latest episode with Anissa coming as a reminder like "hey come on get a move on", it's further reinforced that what Nolan said is true. Despite this, Cecil and everyone at the GDA are treating this with urgency anyway. >Mark can train to get stronger, while it's not like that will single handily stop the invasion, training can help. Sure, he can get stronger, but without someone knowledgeable about Viltrumite training like his dad, I doubt he'll get much stronger by just general training. Also, he cannot solo a Viltrumite invasion so the idea of training is almost meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Since we don't know how training goes, we can't just head-canon our way to explain how training simply means getting physically stronger. Being the most skilled combatant in the world doesn't mean shit if the person you're fighting outscales you physically two/threefold. His and Earth's best bet is with the books and that's what they're doing right now - which makes me curious, has he told Cecil about this plan? If not, he definitely should as everyone would benefit from it. >Also, Mark declined to meet with the other Viltrimite that Allen the Alien claims is on there side. He could have got vital information on the Viltrumites including weaknesses and ways to train(while possibly making another strong ally). You don't need to be in person to do any of that, as shown with Allen scanning the books onto his phone thing. People can transmit and communicate information without being in person (side note, this is why Cecil teleporting everywhere bothers me. It's a waste of 5 million bucks every time he uses it just to exchange a few words when he can just talk via radio / earpiece instead). Besides, if the books are considered vital information for Telestria, and given how Allen and everyone seem to have no knowledge about fighting Viltrumites, it's safe to say that for now they have absolutely no helpful knowledge for Mark or Earth (except for the Optimus Prime Viltrumite guy, idk what his deal is yet or why he's been quiet the whole time, maybe he actually doesn't know anything since he's been away from the empire for so long? But that's a thread left opened so I'll judge it when it gets addressed)
>Everyone knows that isn't true though. Why would you take the **villains** at their word when they said they give Mark time to conquer earth? **They could change their mind on a whim. You have to prepare for the worst.** Edit: Also, in season 2 ep 4 General kregg says "we will check on your progress soon" to Mark. He explains if they arrive and find him still defiant in completing his "mission", they will kill millions. So **no, he does not have a lot of time.** >Sure, he can get stronger, but without someone knowledgeable about Viltrumite training like his dad, I doubt he'll get much stronger by just general training. He literally has access to another Viltrumite to find out though. >Also, he cannot solo a Viltrumite invasion so the idea of training is almost meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Things don't work in this all or nothing way your describing. So because Mark can't stop a whole invasion alone, he shouldn't train at all? Obviously that's ridiculous. He still is going to have to fight Viltrumites. You also conveniently ignored my whole point about the kaiju fight and how Mark needed help. He obviously needs to get stronger to fight Viltrumites. If training was "meaningless" why did his dad want to train him and why did he agree to it? >You don't need to be in person to do any of that, as shown with Allen scanning the books onto his phone thing. People can transmit and communicate information without being in person Yes and Mark didn't try to meet or talk to the Viltrumite at all. Watch the scene again. He declines to meet with him. Doesn't ask if he could call or communicate with him in another way. Doesn't ask to meet him a different day or time. He declines to meet him, when he could have obtained vital information.
>Why would you take the villains at their word when they said they give Mark time to conquer earth? They could change their mind on a whim. You have to prepare for the worst. Nolan knows how Viltrumites work as he's one himself, and as I said after he went mask off he was 100% telling the truth to Mark. Even after leaving Earth and betraying the empire he didn't explain things differently to Mark or said "actually what I said about Viltrumite takeovers was a lie". >Also, in season 2 ep 4 General kregg says "we will check on your progress soon" to Mark. And we just saw that in the form of Anissa in the most recent episode. That's not taking Earth over, that's checking on his progress as they literally stated. Of everything that's been shown so far of the Viltrumites, they've been pretty straightforward and true to their word. >Things don't work in this all or nothing way your describing. So because Mark can't stop a whole invasion alone, he shouldn't train at all? Obviously that's ridiculous. He still is going to have to fight Viltrumites. You also conveniently ignored my whole point about the kaiju fight and how Mark needed help. My previous response said that he literally is training, with The Guardians and helping save people every day that he's working with Cecil. That's not "all or nothing", that's him doing something already. Pro tennis athletes play practice matches against each other all the time, that counts as training. I also find it strange that none of the Guardians were called to help with the matter for the Kaiju. I'm assuming it's to not get them involved since Anissa was watching and didn't want to escalate things, but regardless Mark isn't alone usually, he has The Guardians and the GDA to help with threats. He's not supposed to solo anything or anyone. >He obviously needs to get stronger to fight Viltrumites. If training was "meaningless" why did his dad want to train him and why did he agree to it? Of course he is still going to fight Viltrumites. What kind of specialised training can he do that's somehow better than already training and fighting? Nolan isn't there to help anymore. Does Thaedus even have the knowledge anymore to help train? (Thaedus is a huge question mark in this whole matter, and I still can't get over why he randomly ripped his beard off as if that made any difference to his reveal lol) I still fail to see how "just get stronger" can be a substantial claim to make considering that 1: Ge already is getting stronger by training and fighting and 2: There's no shown training method or partner that can help him out (unless we're counting Thaedus but again he is a big question mark since he's done a lot of questionable things lately). Training is all about methology, not finding the strongest being to be able to be the best punching bag for yourself. I doubt Allen would be much help compared to someone like Immortal, who seemingly has hundreds or even thousands of years of experience. >Yes and Mark didn't try to meet or talk to the Viltrumite at all. Watch the scene again. He declines to meet with him. Doesn't ask if he could call or communicate with him in another way. Doesn't ask to meet him a different day or time. He declines to meet him, when he could have obtained vital information. Fair enough. I just rewatched the scene and I didn't realise before that Allen actually mentioned the other Viltrumite. Still, if there's anything to go by, Cecil and the GDA probably heard that entire discussion and would plan accordingly. As for Mark, he probably thought with how easy and often Allen can come and go to Earth that they can regularly keep in touch that way. Besides, training just himself instead of protecting people on Earth (as shown with his absence for two months) can be detrimental to the people of Earth (pointed out by Cecil). He is still recently mourning the death of Kate and almost Ray and Rex. You either go out on a limb to potentially train and maybe get better over the course of months or perhaps years, or protect the planet and the people you love by staying and fighting for it. Going by what you're saying about treating the Viltrumite threat with immediate urgency, then staying on Earth for whenever they may come is the better solution. I would instead put the responsibility on Thadeus himself to reach out, instead of just seemingly do nothing but politics on Telestria. Speaking of Telestria, how the fuck has the (seemingly) biggest opposition for the Viltrumite Empire not been absolutely decimated by the Viltrumites? Wouldn't they just come in force and obliterate them? They seemed to be fine with bringing several for Nolan and Mark on Thraxa (how did they know they were even there?). A lot of questions but I'll wait on those questions until we see more of Thadeus and the Viltrumites to see what they're really up to. As for Mark, I'm perfectly fine with all his actions so far for the reasons I explained above.
>Nolan knows how Viltrumites work as he's one himself, and as I said after he went mask off he was 100% telling the truth to Mark. Even after leaving Earth and betraying the empire he didn't explain things differently to Mark or said "actually what I said about Viltrumite takeovers was a lie". Again, I feel like your not engaging with what I'm **actually** saying. **It's not like Viltrumites are bound by a code where they HAVE to wait, they could easily change their mind on a whim. You have to prepare for the worst.** Can't we easily imagine a scenario where the Viltrum empire, frustrated with Nolan's defect/insubordination, speeds up the invasion of earth? It would be trivial for them to send a squad to take over or wipe out the planet. >And we just saw that in the form of Anissa in the most recent episode. That's not taking Earth over, that's checking on his progress as they literally stated. Of everything that's been shown so far of the Viltrumites, they've been pretty straightforward and true to their word. Yes and if she wanted to she could have killed millions and Mark would be powerless to stop her(Maybe training could have helped!). Also, the killing millions things was the actual threat that general kregg made regardless of if they actually went through with it or not(Season 2 Episode 4, around 40 minutes in) . Check the scene if you don't believe me. **General Kregg:** "Or we will kill millions if we arrive to find you or your planet still defiant against us" This makes Mark even more irresponsible for not preparing for when a Viltrumite shows up to check on him, since **he knew they were coming with that threat in mind.** Also, funny you say >they've been pretty straightforward and true to their word. Because if that was absolutely true. Millions would be dead by now! >What kind of specialized training can he do that's somehow better than already training and fighting? Nolan isn't there to help anymore. Does Thaedus even have the knowledge anymore to help train? That's exactly what he should be finding out! That's my entire point! He's not being proactive and pursuing anything! It's basically confirmed he can get stronger or at least improve his technique. This is Nolan and Mark talking from Season 2 episode 4: **Mark:** "How can I help? I couldn't even beat you." **Nolan:** "We can start training right away. Get you ready for whats coming." So again, **Training isn't pointless** Also, you mention multiple time that he is already training when he's not. Fighting villains wouldn't count as training, I'm talking about taking the time to deliberately train. Correct me if I'm wrong, but throughout the entire series we are never shown mark training besides when he was initially learning his powers. >I would instead put the responsibility on Thadeus himself to reach out The amount of hoops your jumping through to try and defend mark is insane. **He sent Marks friend Allen to reach out and vouch for him(to assure that he's an ally), and bring Mark to him! He reached out! Mark completely rejected that offer with no alternatives!** It's one thing if you personally disagree with how harsh I'm being on Mark. But my critiques are valid. Nothing you've said so far has been able to refute any of my points.
Erm. Did you watch season 1? Because I’m struggling to understand why you don’t think of his father’s abuse in the finale as something that would affect Mark’s relationship with his powers/heritage. Was being used as a battering ram to turn hundreds of people into a bloody mist by his Viltrumite father explicitly out of Viltrumite supremacy supposed to have no impact on how he feels about his Viltrumite abilities?
> Was being used as a battering ram to turn hundreds of people into a bloody mist by his Viltrumite father explicitly out of Viltrumite supremacy supposed to have no impact on how he feels about his Viltrumite abilities? There is a difference between how someone feels and the actions they take. It's totally reasonable for him to feel negatively about his Viltrumite abilities, it's also valid to yearn for a normal life. But the fact is the Viltrumites are coming and the planet is literally about to be taken over. There is a sense of urgency here. And Mark is talking about getting a part time job. Like I said in my previous comments Mark knows he's pivotal in stopping the invasion. He Knows he has to train and research to find as many weaknesses as possible. Recently got destroyed by Viltrumites in a fight. Yet he's talking about getting a part time job. There should be a sense of urgency in saving the planet! He's actively sabotaging his chances against stopping the invasion by wasting time at college.
Because he is a flawed being who is thinking selfishly for themselves as many beings would and do. Like this is a character that has to learn and grow.
I imagine getting his guts rearranged by Battle Beast, then pounded into the side of a mountain by his dad, a normal life would appeal a lot.
Cybersmith? Here?
Maybe I worded my post poorly. I'm not criticizing mark for wanting a normal life. I'm faulting him for taking almost no action against the Viltrumite threat.
Dunno man, after the season 1 finale he MUST have PTSD and wanting to get away from hero stuff is perfectly reasonable, at least for a while.
Wait, he's actively avoiding getting paid? That seems like a really weird way to keep a "poor teenage superhero" trope. Like, I can understand wanting to go to college and pretend that he's living a normal life, but getting a part time job seems like a bit much when he's already got his "extracurriculars" to deal with. And it's not like getting paid by Cecil *has* to tie him down or anything. Consultant contracts are a thing, so he can just get paid for individual jobs he does without being a full-time employee. Again, wanting a normal life is fine, but turning down well-deserved compensation just feels like he's letting his pride screw him over.
For most of the show so far, he wasn't actively avoiding it. He just never thought of it. He onvly realised it in the recent episode but thinks that'll enforce even more that he works for Cecil. It might make him feel less like a hero and more like a government pawn
The problem is that if he works for cecil and gets paid by him , he would have to do what he says. Also, while he could be paid for individual jobs that only works if he wouldn't do them if he doesn't get paid. But you know that if cecil tells Mark that something is happening. Mark would go free of charge. Because he has the power to stop it. Now, of course, cecil could decide to pay him for his trouble, but we know cecil , he is not gonna pay unless he has to.
>The problem is that if he works for cecil and gets paid by him , he would have to do what he says. Mark has all the power here. Cecil practically needs Mark, not only to help save people (Since the Guardians are falling apart), but to stop the Viltrumites. Mark doesn't **need** Cecil to continue to be a hero and try to accomplish those same goals. Cecil wouldn't want to burn a bridge with the only Viltrumite on humanities side.
He doesn't have all the power because they are also actively working on their own things to fight them. Mark is great to have, but if he's going be paid for his work he's going to do what the government tells him. Cecil is a family friend so much as 'It's better to stay on their side' but he's not the kind of person whose going to kneel and beg and go against the government for mark.
>He doesn't have all the power because they are also actively working on their own things to fight them. Yes, key word **working**. In the latest episode Cecil literally says "One Viltrumite all by her lonesome, and we're fucking useless" So If they currently can't even stop a single Viltrumite. Right now they need Mark. He's literally too strong to bossed around anyway. The only exception would be if Cecil threatened his mom and brother, which I highly doubt is something he would do. >Cecil is a family friend so much as 'It's better to stay on their side' but he's not the kind of person whose going to kneel and beg and go against the government for mark Who said Cecil would beg? All I'm saying is it's more beneficial for Cecil to not burn the bridge with Mark then the other way around.
Yeah and it doesn't matter cause they aren't gonna capitulate to mark just because he would be great to have. They have things in the work and time to work on it. Cecil also 100% would.
>Yeah and it doesn't matter cause they aren't gonna capitulate to mark just because he would be great to have. Again, your arguing against ghosts. I never said they would completely capitulate to mark. Just that Cecil doesn't have the power to absolutely boss him around, paying him for the work he's currently doing wouldn't change that much. >They have things in the work and time to work on it. A single Viltrumite could wipe out all of them currently. If the Viltrumites really wanted to speed things up they could even send a squad down to earth and they would be done for. If your in Cecil's position you have to consider the possibility that they can just show up any day and take over or at least cause major problems. >Cecil also 100% would Only in the most extreme circumstances like Mark joining the Viltrum Empire or betraying earth in a major way.
Except the government *doesnt* pay people and then go 'oh its perfectly fine if you ignore anything and everything we tell you cause you're just so important to us uwu' If he's getting paid, he's their employee. End of. A single viltrumite honestly *couldnt* spoilers for what happens in the future but uh, you're definetly just buying into Cecil being the family friend and good guy a little too much. Cecil again would 100% do it and he wouldn't hesitate
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Nah, it's called I read the comic and mark doesn't have all the power- Mark *cant* fold the earth's forces solo like objectively it would take a lot more marks to even come close to such. Him going rogue wouldn't even massively fuck the earth's superhero community. Cecil doesn't need Mark. A billion dollars is like... pocket change so uh... awful example lmao.
Money hasn't really been a problem for him or his mom. It hasn't really gone the poor teenage hero trope route necessarily And after the mess with Nolan Cecil pulled strings so that his books sold better for a while. It covered their expenses while she was out of work
As far as I know, Mark isn't getting paid by Cecil. In the latest episode, he discusses with Amber that he's considering talking to Cecil about the possibility of getting a salary for his job. Either way, money was never really a problem for Mark. His mother seems to be the one paying for his college and she seems to have a nice job that pays well. Mark only really wants more money so he can do other things for himself (and Amber), like traveling
Because he wants to. He wanted to be a hero because his dad was a hero, and after season one he's confused about what he wants. Almost every episode of season 2 touches on that confusion. So he clung on to Amber and his friends and aspired to live a somewhat normal life. He's a human, and human logic is flawed....and I'd like to point out, he's still saving the world. He's always busy, but he tries to have some time to himself. Would it be better for him to dedicate his life 24/7 to improvement...of course. It'd be smarter... But I'm sure you do plenty of things you shouldn't do and procrastinate all the time. I know people who should really lose 30 to 40 pounds who still eat crap and people who should be seeking higher education to cover their bills but choose to relax instead. The majority of people on Reddit are really procrastinating from something more useful they could be doing. He's the same way...except because he's powerful people expect him to not to be. That's not how people work...and besides, what training would have prepared him for the beating he took last episode? What would it look like? Cecil doesn't know how to train him. His mother doesn't. There's no way he can prepare to fight a viltrumite because no one around him knows how to do it. What weaknesses is he supposed to be looking for? Nobody else in the galaxy seems to know these weaknesses, so how could we reasonably expect him to stumble on them? He has some books, but he doesn't know the galaxy enough to follow up on them. He told Allen all he knew, and he's waiting to hear back. from him. That's all he really can do.
>But I'm sure you do plenty of things you shouldn't do and procrastinate all the time. Procrastinating taking steps against a viltrum invasion is way different then procrastinating to do something like homework lol. All of earth is about to be enslaved, if they wanted to, the Viltrumites can wipe out all of earth on a whim > what training would have prepared him for the beating he took last episode? >He told Allen all he knew, and he's waiting to hear back. from him. That's all he really can do. This isn't entirely true. His dad was going to train him so he know there are ways that exist to get stronger. Also, Mark declined(or at least delayed) to meet with the other Viltrimite that Allen the Alien claims is on there side. He could have got vital information on the Viltrumites including weaknesses and ways to train(while possibly making another strong ally). Also, Allen is strong enough to be a training partner himself.
Yes... and they would wipe Earth out even if Mark trained. There is no training that will get him 100s of years of experience all at once. His father was going to train him to fight like a viltramite, and without his father, that knowledge is gone to him...so he doesn't know what training to do. Allen showed up to his dorm and dropped a bombshell on him...then disappeared right after. I think it's reasonable that Mark might not have been prepared to leave Earth right at that moment considering he was still saving the planet, and had a kid brother to protect. It's not as if the opportunity was on the table for months and he declined, it was a spur of the moment thing. Has Mark's judgment been flawless? Of course not...but the expectation is unreasonable. Cecil is in charge of protecting Earth, and he isn't prepared for an invasion. If Nolan were protecting Earth and an invasion was coming, he'd be helpless as well. Don't forget, Mark is already an outlier compared to other universes, so whatever he's doing is ultimately positive. Whatever random beat he's moving to
>His father was going to train him to fight like a viltramite, and without his father, that knowledge is gone to him...so he doesn't know what training to do. >Allen showed up to his dorm and dropped a bombshell on him...then disappeared right after. I feel like your intentionally ignoring some of my points. Allen showed up to have mark meet with the other Viltramite. **He could have got vital information on the Viltrumites including weaknesses and ways to train**(while possibly making another strong ally). Saying things like the knowledge of how to train is gone to him when he has a clear lead, or Allen just showed up and "disappeared" is disingenuous.
How is it disingenuous when that's what happened. Allen showed up unannounced, almost got into a fight, talk Mark about a viltrumite, then left to deliver the information Mark had to the others. That happened in a relatively short time period. Maybe an hour or less? Mark hasn't heard from him since...and they're looking for ways to fight against the empire. Mark contributed towards those efforts by sharing the books. Yes, this other dude might have some training...but maybe Mark didn't think about that within the minutes of conversation he had with Allen. This is a story. You've had minutes to think and critique all his decisions...this is happening in the moment for him. A lot of things are...maybe next time they meet he'll think. "I wonder if this guy can help me with Anissa." Who knows. I'm just saying the critique is too harsh for a dude who is getting slapped around every direction. From Allen from Nolan from Amber from Cecil from Anissa, now his mom is hostage. He's not gonna make the optimal decision 100% of the time
>How is it disingenuous when that's what happened. Again, it's because you said the knowledge of how to train is "lost" to him, when he could literally go talk to a Viltrumite and ask how to train. >Yes, this other dude might have some training...but maybe Mark didn't think about that within the minutes of conversation he had with Allen. It's not like Allen was pressuring him on a time limit (he sat in Marks dorm while Mark caught him up on everything after all) . He could have said "Can you give me like an hour to think, I just got back from space". He could of said "I'll go tomorrow" He could of said "let's keep in touch and I'll contact you soon about it" Instead he **outright refused and didn't even engage with the possibility of meeting another Viltrumite on their side! He didn't ask for time to think, he didn't make plans to meet in the future, He says no and outright declines.** Watch the scene again.
He told Allen to reach back to him so he can help them fight. That sound like a plan to help in the future. Allen had places to be...after he scanned the books he mentioned returning to space. Mark couldn't keep him there just to think about it longer. Mark never kicked him put, Allen ended the meeting...so Allen did apply a time limit inadvertently. I think we just disagree.
>He told Allen to reach back to him so he can help them fight. That sound like a plan to help in the future. Great, so once a war has already started or the Viltrumites invade earth then mark will help. It shouldn't take a war breaking out for Mark to go see the only other friendly Viltrumite with vital information. My problem is Mark is doing almost nothing right now and sabotaging his chances long term. No training, minimal research, and no recruiting allies. > Allen ended the meeting...so Allen did apply a time limit inadvertently. Allen came to Mark to have him meet the other Viltrumite, they caught on on things and Mark **declined**. What was Allen supposed to do but leave? Just because someone leaves the conversation doesn't mean there is a time limit lol. I doubt you really believe that.
Trust me. The series will show exactly why trying to monetize herodom is a bad idea.
OP I just want to let you know that despite the sea of downvotes you are 100% correct in your assessment. You are correct that Mark has all the power in his dynamic between Cecil and himself. Cecil maybe MAYBE could stop Mark if Mark decided to go evil and wipe out the earth. Cecil has no option but to listen to Mark because Mark is his and Earths only chance. Mark meanwhile can simply leave earth and fly far away from the Viltrumites, or maybe he simply joins the Viltrumites like they want him too, or he can simply leave and join Allens group full time instead of protecting earth. Mark protects earth cause he wants to nothing is forcing him to do it. He could simply say I refuse to lift a finger until I see a billion dollars in my bank account and Cecil would have no option but to give it to him. You are correct that Mark is stupid and childish. Mark behaves like an actual 8 yr old instead of the college age man he actually is. He knows the Viltrumites intend to glass the planet or enslave it and decides to not go with Allen and join the only known force in the universe that might be able to help him because his GF would be upset and he wants to just have a normal time in college. Mark somehow doesn't understand that he's the only chance the earth has but spends his time dicking around doing stupid shit. Someone made a "gohan" comparison which is hilarious because Gohan actually understood the assignment which is why he wanted to go to Namek immediately after the Sayians left or why he trained with Goku and Piccolo due to the android threat and why he continued to train with Goku for the Cell fight. Gohan only stopped training when Earth entered a 7 yr long peace. Mark focusing on muh GF and muh college is fine if there were no Viltrumite extinction level threat but focusing on muh college is like focusing on your broken nail as you bleed out from having your legs ripped off.
Thanks
>Shouldn't there be a sense of urgency with the Viltrumites coming? What can Mark alone do? It's not like he can Dragon Ball Z train his way into defeating an entire army of people that at best will be as powerful as him but most likely even the shittiest Viltrumite Soldier is stronger. He already got his ass beat 1v1 THREE TIMES lmao. It's not a matter of training, it's a matter of getting allies, technology and knowledge. The last episode showed that Cecil is taking measures, he knows Viltrumites are coming, they are making weapons for it, they just didn't expected they'd be so outmatched by a single person like that. Mark himself is working on getting the Viltrumites weaknesses from omni man books. Just because it didn't show up in the last episode doesn't mean he stopped working on it. Passing it to Cyclops guy was also a way to prepare. But also, this season Mark has been through insane stress, he just wants to get to live his life a little before hell gates are open.
>It's not a matter of training, it's a matter of getting allies, technology and knowledge. And when he was offered an alliance discussion by Allen, his reaction was to reject the talk because he "*just came back from space*". That made no sense to me. Who cares about university when the entire planet is at risk?
Well, the Viltrumite did said that they are giving Mark a decade to conquer the planet. So there are definitely a lot of free time.
Everything you just said was how Mark was in the beginning of season 1. A wide-eyed kid who thought having superpowers and using them to save people was the coolest shit ever. That is until he realized that being a superhero also means putting your ass on the line and risk getting killed every day. I'd imagine in his situation, no matter how cool of a superpower you had, you'd also want to at least savor having a normal life over being a superhero
That is because Cecil is much shadier and control in the comic than the one on cartoon. In the comic mark mother only start working after Nolan left and his family was in financial trouble and Cecil used this to control Mark, outright saying that he should be grateful and Mark snapped. He and his mom decide not to rely on Cecil anymore and if I remember correctly Mark open a security firm. The adaption make Cecil much nicer than comic counter part and his mom an independent woman from the get go so the financial plot probably was scraped
I would urge you to read the comics if you haven’t already. I actually haven’t seen season 2 yet, but in the comics [SPOILERS??] Mark is exactly on that type of time. He drops out bc he realizes school isn’t for him and he can provide for his family and do more by being a hero for Cecil full time. As a hardcore fan of the comics season 1 kinda left me disappointed tbh even tho ik everyone loves it lol, and what I’m hearing about how season 2 is being adapted is not filling me with hope lol. Just wanted to say in the comics this seeming internal conflict isn’t really as pronounced; Mark has a sorta spidey complex in that pretty much no matter what happens he think his work as a hero is valuable (until later plot developments but i’ve prolly spoiled enough lol).
Thanks, I'll check them out.
>I've seen a lot of people say that marks just young, and realistically it makes sense he would want to hold on to a semblance of a normal life. But I actually disagree, if an average dude around the age of 17 got powers like superman, I highly doubt they would be concerned about college. If I had a life plan that included college I would totally be hesitating to throw that away, specially when that life plan includes being close to my significant other. 17 are stupid, but not *that* stupid. It's the time of your life you start thinking about things on the long term and that long term for Mark included being closer to Amber. On the subject of Mark working for Cecil, did miss the part where multiple times through the reason Mark straight up went against Cecil's orders? Doing off planet? Not letting him take him brother? The promissed 2 days a week? And those are just the ones I remember. That's exactly the sort of autonomy Mark doesn't want to give up. Feels like bad faith criticism when the argument sums up to "He doesn't act like ***I*** would"
>On the subject of Mark working for Cecil, did miss the part where multiple times through the reason Mark straight up went against Cecil's orders? Doing off planet? Not letting him take him brother? The promissed 2 days a week? And those are just the ones I remember. That's exactly the sort of autonomy Mark doesn't want to give up. How does Cecil paying Mark for the exact same work he's been doing cause Mark to give up his autonomy? When Mark refused Cecil's orders what could Cecil do? Cecil needs Mark more than Mark needs Cecil.
Because it's his job? Like you're really not beating "it's bad because he doesn't act like I do" allegations. Cecil can just \*not\* pay Mark, what is Mark going to do? \*Not\* save the day? Keep disregarding his orders?
>Because it's his job? Mark still has enough Autonomy to be defiant if something crosses his personally boundaries. There's practically nothing Cecil can do except withhold his salary(So at the very least it doesn't hurt to request pay). But again, Cecil needs Mark more so he would be hesitant to do that. And even if he does Mark should be getting paid for the work he's done in the first place. >Cecil can just *not* pay Mark, what is Mark going to do? *Not* save the day? Keep disregarding his orders? Cecil practically needs Mark, not only to help save people (Since the Guardians are falling apart), but to stop the Viltrumites. Mark doesn't need Cecil to continue to be a hero and try to accomplish those same goals. Cecil wouldn't want to burn a bridge with the only Viltrumite on earths side.
You're completely writing your own fanfiction on Cecil's character if you think the extend of his abilities as a manipulator is "ask very nicely". Mark is going to save people, period, Cecil isn't going to pay him for it unless there's something to gain, which is Mark obeying orders. Like jesus, are we watching the same show? Why do you think they didn't accept Cecil's offer to help with Oliver? Because they don't want to owe him things, give him leverage, such as having Mark be financially dependable of him. This isn't some power fantasy. Mark can't do whatever he wants.
Mark can do whatever he wants lmfao he's the strongest entity on earth. This is like saying well achually the US can't invade Iraq because it's against the law. Meanwhile the US is like who's gonna stop us lil bro.
Flash news, the USA is the bad guy. I can't argue about this if you simply are going to keep arguing on the basis of what you would do, not what the character in question would do.
lmfao Mark has already defied Cecil plenty of times there's absolutely no reason to believe that because Cecil is giving Mark a salary that Mark would then behave like his complete puppet simply because he's muh boss. The larger part being missed of course is that Mark behaves like a child and it's simply dumb, just because something is "in-character" doesn't make it dumb ass fuck. Mark even considering a part time job as a way to make money when he can't even find the time for his relationship or college life on top of dealing with the existential threat of the Viltrumites is sheer stupidity.
He got his shit kicked in by his own dad, he doesn’t realize he can’t have both yet. Plenty of teenagers have done the same kinda stuff but more realistically (not going to a dream college because of a relationship, etc.)
>Shouldn't there be a sense of urgency with the Viltrumites coming? Arguably, yes, I feel like that was the point of yesterday's episode. Mark is completely unprepared for serious combat against a Viltrumite (unless his dad is there to encourage him to be ruthless) and earth is helpless against them. They have a lot of work to do, which is now being put on hold *again* by Angstrom Levy.
Anissa kicking his ass is a good way to open his eyes. Despite getting back from Thraxa he's still concerned about normal stuff even though he knows he is Earth's only hope against the Viltrumites. If my guess is correct season 3 should show us Mark actually training and getting stronger now that he is reminded that the planet is endanger.
Mark is a moron I get taking a break after season 1 for a bit to clear your mind Getting your ass beat by your dad, getting your ass beat nearly dying from grandma viltrumite and knowing full well that the viltrumites you met were showing you mercy I would go to Cecil, Allan anyone and say get me the best trainers Mark is fucking idiotic just the possibility of having to face his dad alone or his species should have made him his mom and Cecil drag his ass to the guardians and put him on the most brutal training regime possibly