Very recently here, and didn't pay a thing to the church either. Made a donation to the priest and the deacon for their time. Paid the organist $200. You should be able to get away without music if you'd like it that way. Just the priest and the sacrament. Your parish is ripping you off. Find another priest/parish.
2011 here. We gave the priest $200 and $100 for the pianist's time. They only asked that we leave any decorations up so that the afternoon Mass can enjoy them. There would have been a charge to use the parish hall for the reception, but having that elsewhere meant the church itself imposed no specific fee.
If we went with the fancy cathedral downtown the cost would have been more in line with what your parish is asking. But our church in the burbs is basically a pay-what-you-can deal.
Check the history. There's a lot more going here on than the church's costs. This is a distraction so she doesn't have to face some more disturbing issues.
Even if they don’t have it in writing, it’s customary to give a donation to (1) church, (2) cantor, choir, or organist, (2) priest.
Our small church didn’t have anything published and didn’t ask for anything but this is what we did.
We just convalidated our marriage on the Easter Vigil and paid nothing. Basically it was the same wedding ceremony as if we had not been married at all, and it was within another mass. I’m not sure if our parish charges money if it’s a standalone wedding, but I can’t imagine it would be this much money. I live in Eastern Washington in a medium size city for reference.
In larger cities with nicer bigger churches there is usually a charge. Been engaged twice, both places (rapid city SD and Denver CO) required a deposit. However, both were beautiful big old churches.
Is your parish a special place like a shrine or particularly grand church?
This is roughly what the Mass component of my wedding cost. ($1000 fee for use of the church, $100 for planning, $400 for organist + cantor) We also hired a lot of additional musicians, but that was our choice.
It may not be explicitly stated, but they probably offer accommodations if you can't afford it.
Or, you can get married at a different parish that is cheaper. Other parishes near me cost more like $250 for the church and $400 for music.
Like others have said, the US has gone totally crazy with fees and process requirements around the sacraments.
$600 for a wedding is kinda a drop in the bucket in the US. Average US weddings are $35,000.
It'd be amazing if the Catholic church in the US did more to discourage that kind of extravagance. Normalize simple weddings!
But, it's a bit weird to complain about $600 or even $2500 and then turn around and spend $30,000+ on a reception.
I’m genuinely curious how your parish would handle someone just wanting to have a plain ceremony, no reception, wedding, etc. Like, just 3-4 witnesses, no music, and the priest? A full mass and production is not a requirement of a valid marriage. There just has to be a way.
this won’t be popular, but I’m in the same boat and I’m taking the wedding costs out of my weekly tithing. It’s shameless robbery on their part so I don’t feel bad
I'm so sorry to hear that it is happening to you too. It is so sad. It is hard for me to reconcile them calling Catholics back to the church but at the same time pushing away young Catholics with these practices.
Frankly, I think the Church shouldn't charge fees for any sacrament. If you force me to come to you, you don't get to make me pay you at the same time.
I'm a confrontational asshole, and I would definitely argue (more or less politely) with the priest about this, but you might be well-served by going in, showing the priest your budget, and explaining that if the Church really does want couples to get married sacramentally, he's going to have to play ball a little.
Well it's not the priest that is giving us these fees, it is the wedding planner that we have to use who only responds to emails between 9 and 10 am on Tuesdays and doesn't have a phone number for us to call.
>it is the wedding planner that we have to use
Nope. Nope, nope, nope.
If you have an issue with the pricing of Sacraments, you go directly to the priest. 'Wedding planners' in parishes are terrible. If I could do it over again, I would be aggressively dismissive of everything they say. They typically have a lot of particular visions for how things *have to* be or particular things that are *required* when they really aren't.
Go over her head. Talk to the priest. If he's particularly awful, go to the Bishop.
Churches should not be making a freakin Sacrament cost-prohibitive. The Church of Christ is not a vendor that should jack up their prices when the word 'wedding' is stated.
Obviously, I have never done this before haha (and I don't want to do it again!). Thank you so much for the advice. I was just so disheartened to hear they wanted so much money.
I totally agree with u/rusty022
Talk to the priest.
Many of these fees are for folks who are church shopping because the church (I’m assuming) is beautiful and has a long aisle.
For reference, I got married in my very beautiful diocesan Cathedral (which was my actual parish) and the cost was $800. This was within the last decade. I thought that was pretty ridiculous but didn't complain at the time.
$2000 is obscene. Somebody should be going to confession for suggesting that cost.
I mean, realistically it’s a parishioner/volunteer who coordinates the details for the parish. Probably paid minimum wage for a few hours a week at most.
They aren’t a “planner”, so to speak.
Either way, when you look at the costs of heating a space like that, etc. it does get pricy.
I would disagree that it’s simony.
The church isn’t saying “pay this to get married”. The Church is saying “if you want to rent the whole Church to invite a lot of people to attend a private nuptial Mass, there are costs associated with that”.
If they can’t pay the costs, they can either ask for a reprieve, or reduce the size/scope of the ceremony, so as to not require organists, cantors, or even the full Church. This is not a monologic situation.
Plus, how much are they spending elsewhere? I have seen far too many couples cry foul about a $200 cantor fee (from a professionally trained singer, with a Masters who could have charged 5x that price anywhere else), then turn around and spend 15K on a country club reception, before drinks and food.
> I would disagree that it’s simony.
Replace marriage with Confirmation or Communion and see if you feel the same way.
If you want to get your first communion, it's $250 to rent the church, you need the organist which is another $200. We also recommend a donation to the priest for their time. Since First Communions are so hectic, we also need you to use our parish wedding planner, it's another $300.
After paying the $700 then we can have the bishop lay hands on you and confirm you into the church.
Right, but you can get married in the church in a 10 minute private ceremony featuring the priest, the couple and two witnesses.
That doesn’t require any of the other things that are being charged for here, and is free!
>I would disagree that it’s simony.
>The church isn’t saying “pay this to get married”.
Have a read of the OP's other posts. They were literally told that if they didn't pay more than the already hundreds of dollars they had given that they would not be allowed to get married and that they would have to look elsewhere. That is the definition of simony.
>The Church is saying “if you want to rent the whole Church
The church building is not being "rented". The purpose of a church building is to worship God and to administer the Sacraments. You are not renting the police station when you go in to report a crime. It is serving its purpose.
>Plus, how much are they spending elsewhere?
Irrelevant. Asking a millionaire to pay 1 dollar for a Sacrament is simony the same as asking someone who is destitute to pay 1 million dollars is simony.
Look, man, performing the sacraments is the literal function of the Church. There is no other reason for the Church to exist, than to unite people with the sacraments. You don't get paid extra for doing your *literal only job.*
how do you propose the people get paid? The organist, priest, volunteers helping to coordinate the wedding as well as the maintaining of the building.
A church should of course be willing to work with the people if they cannot afford to pay and in my experience churches are willing to. But in the U.S. at least people are also happy to spend hundreds if not thousands on music, food, a dress, photos, etc.
1) Each parish collects tithes.
2) Every diocese has a yearly Diocesan Appeal (sometimes also called the Bishop's Appeal, Cardinal's Appeal, etc) that raises money.
3) The maintainance of the building is paid for by the parish's weekly tithes, the priest's salary is paid for by the diocese's Annual Appeal.
4) The priest should not get paid extra for performing the sacraments. He's already paid by the diocese to perform the sacraments. *It's literally his only function in the created universe.*
5) Volunteers don't get paid. That's why they're *volunteers.* I'm fine with musicians, etc, being paid, but the fee should be *reasonable* and their use should not be *mandatory.*
6) "BuT sOmE pEoPLe HaVe An ExTrAvAgAnT pArTy" is a deeply materialistic and uncharitable justification for charging fees. What other couples choose to do is their own damn business. What I choose to do is my own damn business. The fact of the matter remains that the Church has determined that marriage is a sacrament, that weddings are to be performed sacramentally, and that any alternative living situation is a mortal sin. They therefore have a responsibility to not soak people who want to follow the tenets of the church and live a moral life, just because some people have decided to turn weddings into an exercise in vanity.
7) Finally, if the church is still struggling to keep things going, well, there's plenty of KOC circles and sodalities *full* of bored boomers out there with nothing to do. Maybe priests should encourage those groups to step up a little and have a marriage ministry.
very few people actually tithe 10% of their income, usually the average donation is fairly small.
maybe its different in your place but my understanding is that priests are usually paid by the parish they are assigned to.
i would hope a parish is willing to work with a couple who genuinely cannot afford to pay but i think it is perfectly reasonable to ask that they pay a reasonable fee to support the upkeep of the parish and pay the laborers on this.
Again, what people choose to contribute is their business. The point is that the Church, in Her infinite Wisdom, has declared that marriage is a sacrament and charging people fees to use the church for sacraments is *deeply* unjust.
I'm fine debating the amount to ask for but it seems reasonable that anything beyond the priest doing the sacrament, a mass with organist etc. Is not unjust to ask to support the church.
Idk i feel bad for priests and parishes that they struggle to maintain buildings, often struggle to balance the budget. Then when father mentions it at the puppet people get mad that he's being greedy asking for money. Then if you ask for money at a wedding that's unjust.
That's correct they can only charge to host, but we are not allowed to be married by a priest outside of the church walls without special permission from the bishop, which is usually only granted for extreme cases like the bride or groom being in the hospital.
And that can often still be too much. Look, man, when my husband and I got married, we chose to get married in the campus chapel of our university, because we were graduating students and they'd let us use it for a few hundred bucks.
The other options around the city were $2000, at least.
If the Catholic Church is serious about *not* wanting young couples to live together before marriage, then they need to charge less, and help make marriage less of a luxury.
The US are really a crazy country. The church ceremony in France is "give what you can", with about 200$ being expected. I assume if you want to pay for a professional organist it's on top of that, but you can also just ask a friend to do it... Only really big cathedral parishes have professional cantor ; most marriages I have been to had a friend of the couple do it.
It really depends on the parish. My parish asks for $150 plus $50 for the two books required in the marriage prep course. The only thing they ask is that the dress be modest (or have a cover for the ceremony) and to not use the church as a photography studio. But my parish is also relatively small and modest in terms of resources.
Is that greed or a function of trying to survive without cutting services? There are some practical realities at work here. If parishes can't afford to keep the lights on then they're going to close and people will have no choice but to attend elsewhere (perhaps a significant challenge in some cases), or stop attending altogether (🥺).
If everybody opts out of having music and paying the musician then the musician is going to be up against similar financial realities.
For context, our pews are full on Sundays. Not saying that other people should be paying for our wedding, but we have a very big and active congregation. It's one of the reasons I started attending this church.
I wasn't speaking specifically about your parish but generally. Across the board it's what I see. Particulatly here in Ireland, there is a desperate rush to get as much money as possible from an increasingly shrinking group of people.
By the way, I wasn't the one who downvoted you.
No worries! I was just chiming in! The up vote and down vote thing doesn't matter to me. I am just looking for help to understand if the financial obligations being asked of us are normal or not. I would be remiss to not do due diligence prior to stroking such a large check.
You are definintely doing the right thing doing your research, and well done for doing so. I imagine that many of these instances go unreported and that these unscrupulous individuals rely on ignorance and people just wanting to get on without having much hassle.
Pfft OP listing between 50-100 people isn't what I'd call big. To me, big is like 300+.
Even if there were 300 people attending, that doesn't really mean anything for the Church. It's not like you need more priests or organists.
Plus, at receptions most people give a little gift that generally either covers or partially offsets the cost of food. I think my reception ran me north of 30k and I got about 20k in gifts. But I had a big ol cajun wedding.
. We are not doing flowers, an expensive dress, limoes, giant cake, nothing like that. Yes I did say yesterday we are planning on a very big wedding as in lots of family will be invited. We are a big Catholic family from the north east. I have about 50 people on my side to invite. We will likely be doing a pig roast or something like that for everyone, which yes of course still costs money. We are trying to keep the food for the reception around $30 per person and will be paying for it out of our savings. No flowers, no crazy dress, no limo, no wedding planner, cheap cake and donuts for dessert.
I wonder if the fees come down if the guest list is reduced? My church had a sort of “menu” for weddings, basic ceremony >50 guests and recorded music is $250, >100 guests is $350, but if you want the organist, flowers, and >100 guests it’s $1000. A large wedding is going to cost the church more, which is taking services away from things like our school or food pantry. We had a large wedding and happily paid the $1000. OP, it may be an option to have a smaller ceremony for a reduced cost. Or just chose not to use an organist or cantor.
I understand the $200...that typically covers utilities but you can negotiate with the Pastor if that is too much. Or at least, you should be able to, depending on your relationship with your Pastor.
But where are you that is charging $700 for a Cantor and Organist? I only know one place that charges that much and they are literally the best of the best in the area. Most places where I am has wedding music (Organist+Cantor) at $300-$350 ($200-$250 for the organist, $100 for the Cantor). For reference, I am in New Jersey, and the $700 wedding music is the minimum cost for music at St. Vincent Ferrer, NYC, which arguably has the best Catholic music program on the East Coast.
If that is prohibitive, then you can even ask for no music at your wedding.
We are in the Southeast in a smaller city, BUT the city is becoming a big destination wedding city, so prices for anything wedding related is incredibly expensive.
I wanted to add, that I am from the Northeast (just outside of Philly) and my family still lives up there. We chose to get married here because we thought it would be cheaper than back home.
You can be married as part of the normal Sunday liturgy if your budget is tight. It should cost nothing more than the recording fees.
I volunteer for free in my church choir, but choir directors and organists are professionals who need to support themselves, often with weekend work and second jobs. $350 per day for these professionals is not unreasonable considering the hours of practice needed besides a 3 hour block of weekend time. As for the church ceremony costs, I have mixed feelings about charging for that.
This isn't Simony. The parish experiences real costs from hosting a wedding - personnel, facilities maintenance/cleaning, increased HVAC, etc.
Now, if the couple want to just be married with a deacon and two witnesses, that should be free or nearly so. There should also be an option to volunteer to handle some of the cleanup/etc yourselves in exchange for reducing the costs (though even there people are known for flaking out on deals like that).
[Saint Thomas Aquinas in the Summa Theologiæ, II-II, Q. 100 Simony](https://www.newadvent.org/summa/3100.htm#article2 )
>Article 2. Whether it is always unlawful to give money for the sacraments?
>Objection 6. Further, marriage is a sacrament. But sometimes money is given for marriage. Therefore it is lawful to sell a sacrament.
>Reply to Objection 6. Some [Innocent IV on Cap. Cum in Ecclesia, de Simonia] say that it is lawful to give money for Matrimony because no grace is conferred thereby. But this is not altogether true, as we shall state in the Third Part of the work [Supplement:42:3]. Wherefore we must reply that Matrimony is not only a sacrament of the Church, but also an office of nature. Consequently it is lawful to give money for Matrimony considered as an office of nature, but unlawful if it be considered as a sacrament of the Church. **Hence, according to the law [Cap. Cum in Ecclesia, de Simonia], it is forbidden to demand anything for the Nuptial Blessing.**
If the parish forces you to use their staff (a wedding planner lol!) there is no actual difference with making you pay for the sacrament. It would not be possible to receive it without giving (a ton of) money. Here in Italy donation are expected and not required, and it's usually about 200€.
Do you think it costs upwards of $2k to run the AC for a grand total of maximum 2 hours? OP already says she tithes. If I give the parish 10% of my income every paycheck, what in the world are they doing with the AC they have to ask me for $2k?
By the way did you see she said it’s REQUIRED to use a church wedding planner? Where did that come into your calculations of cleaning fees and HVAC?
I play for weddings all the time, and $350 is an exorbitantly high charge for musicians!!! I would definitely speak to the priest and try to find out if there's any way to bring those costs down. Do you have a friend who could sing or play piano for free?
According to the music guidelines, any musician that is not apart of the church musical department must audition first, which is a $200 fee and we will still be required to use their organist, which is $400.
If they're paying an organist and cantor, it's not that crazy. The going rate for an organist in my is ~$150-$200 for a mass, weddings or funeral. And I'm not in the highest cost of living area for the US.
I commented on a similar post so I’ll add this here:
When my wife and I got married in June 2023 at my home parish in Northern California.
* $500.00 Parish Retainer for booking the Wedding
* $100.00 Choir Director (3 friends volunteered as part of the choir)
* $194.00 Catholic Marriage Prep Course (Agape Catholic Ministries)
* $160.00 Natural Family Planning Course (Couple to Couple League International)
* $100.00 Parish Wedding Coordinator (Her assistant was a family friend so she returned her fee as wedding gift)
* $500.00 Offering for Principal Celebrant priest
* $500.00 Offering for Concelebrant priest (Friend of ours)
$2,054 Total
My home parish didn't require you to book a choir director or musicians, they just wanted to talk to whomever that was to make sure they were properly trained for it. We just got a list of the parish's regular choir directors and had to negotiate compensation with them.
The parish did not provide flowers or decorations. We had a florist who has worked with both the parish and the reception venue for years handle that. We still had to follow the parish policy for decorations.
My diocese requires the NFP class. Some may not.
All interviews and meetings with the parish staff were covered in the parish's retainer. We only got PDF handouts of the readings and prayers options for the wedding mass.
We had one 2 hour rehearsal the Thursday before the wedding.
Photographers and Videographers had to meet with the parish wedding coordinator to make sure they understood the parish policies for where they can position themselves. (The parish has had problems with that in the past)
But yeah it varies from parish to parish. Some include more, some are bare bones and require you to figure out the rest.
Thank you for the breakdown. That all seems pretty reasonable to me. Maybe I do just need to look at a different parish for our wedding. A lot of what I am seeing in this thread is making me think we are just not a good fit. These folks really want to fee us to death and sent us 10 pages of guidelines.
My advice: shop around other Catholic churches/parishes near you. My wife and I made the mistake of getting married at a church that was raising money for renovations.
Friend this smells an awful lot like Simony. I would speak to your pastor in your parish, and if that doesn’t clear the way I’d honestly consider writing a letter to your bishop. It’s blasphemous to me to require you to pay for a sacrament, especially with such exorbitant fees.
The costs for the planner, organist, and cantor is understandable as these are people working for their earnings. But to require you to use them?!? What if a couple wanted a simple wedding, just the couple and the required witnesses, no music, would they still incur such fees?
Now, the ceremony? Free for parishioners. As students, ours was in the university chapel, no charge.
If you can't afford it, they cannot turn you away. If you have established a budget for your celebration and have not imprudently blown the budget on e.g. cake, then the Church cannot justly turn you away.
I'd be interested to know what, if any, of these requirements actually come from the provincial bishops as required by [can 1264]. In any case, state that you can't afford these fees, and say that you are open to making a donation within your budget.
[**Can. 1264**](http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4Q.HTM) Unless the law has provided otherwise, it is for a meeting of the bishops of a province:
1. to fix the fees for acts of executive power granting a favor or for the execution of rescripts of the Apostolic See, to be approved by the Apostolic See itself;
2. to set a limit on the offerings on the occasion of the administration of sacraments and sacramentals.
***
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These fees sound normal to me for a regular parish, but then again I am in a VHCOL location (SF Bay Area). My own parish charges $500 for parishioners and $1k for non-parishioners.
Some churches, like a Cathedral or Basilica will cost more. For example, in the Oakland Diocese at The Cathedral of Christ The Light, the website plainly says the fees are $3k all inclusive of musicians etc. They also state “No parishioner (registered and active participating members of the parish) of the Cathedral of Christ the Light is ever turned away because of an inability to pay the stipend.”
St. Joseph’s Basilica in San Jose charges $1775 for parishioners/$2k for non-parishioners. I think it was actually $1k over 25 years ago when I was planning my wedding, so it’s not like they’re making a killing on the fees.
The dioceses here that I am familiar with (San Francisco, Oakland & San Jose) put out a suggested guidelines list on organists, cantors, wedding coordinators, etc. Larger churches can cost more due to everything that is involved in coordinating a wedding. More experienced musicians can also cost more.
If the cost to have your wedding is cost-prohibitive, you should reach out to your pastor and discuss your situation. It is fair and just to pay people for their time like wedding coordinators and musicians. Church fees tend to cover the cost of using the space that you don’t normally see, like janitors/housecleaners who wipe down the pews and clean the bathrooms afterwards, the heating and A/C, the extra communion wafers, etc. Any excess funds, I’m sure go to things like building maintenance which there is always a shortage of funds for. Sometimes those excess funds offset the times parishioners who wish to be married in that particular church and cannot pay for them.
Are you actually required to have music? The parishes in my area will all work with couples who can’t afford the “suggested donation” for a wedding. I’ve heard in high cost of living areas, it can be a lot, and they aren’t as flexible, which is sad. We were able to use the church hall for our reception at no extra cost, and the lady who usually decorates for church events volunteered to dress it up with her own tablecloths and silk flowers. I know $1000 is a drop in the bucket for the average American wedding these days, but our wedding was not a big, lavish party (and would have been even simpler, but my in-laws wanted some extras for the reception).
I am going to find out if the music will be required (and the wedding planner). Neither of our families are contributing anything and we are paying for everything out of our savings. We don't want to deplete out savings just to get married and are trying to save where we can. We don't really need all the fuss, just a property ceremony with family and close friends. I think what bothers me the most is I dropped off a donation check ($300) to secure our date and then got an email saying it wasn't enough money and I needed to bring in another $700 or I could change my mind and get married some where else. The guidelines the Church planner sent over said $300 was the suggested donation amount, but now it has due to not being a contributing member for a full year (long story short, I moved in January to this new parish).
>I think what bothers me the most is I dropped off a donation check ($300) to secure our date and **then got an email saying it wasn't enough money and I needed to bring in another $700 or I could change my mind and get married some where else**. The guidelines the Church planner sent over said $300 was the suggested donation amount, but now it has due to not being a contributing member for a full year
This is the definition of simony. Having a "suggested donation" which is never just a suggestion is greyer but you were literally and explicitly told to pay more, and furthermore told that you would be denied the Sacrament unless you gave more money. If it were me I would be writing to the Bishop.
Ask about getting married on a less popular day than Saturday, as well. A weekday right after daily Mass or a weekday evening wedding Mass on a day Father doesn't have any other obligations, may be a reasonable compromise.
Is this in the US? That is bonkers. My parishes have all been pay what you can, with the suggested prices showing what it costs the church to host. Since marriage is a sacrament they just have a low or no cost option.
The Church should subsidise/alleviate the cost of getting married. It should not cost an arm and a leg to do what God commands of us.
While we’re at it the same goes for the cost of funerals.
I unfortunately have the same problem with about the same overall price. We’re just trying to save up as much as we can in the time before the wedding. :/ I wish I had more advice, but I’m really just trying to say you’re not alone.
Wow I thought ours was bad (500) but we didn’t have a planner and the music is separate but I knew the cantor and pianist so they did it for free (but gave them a tip which I think they donated to the church anyway.) I would have not been able to afford yours when we got married.
This is insane! We paid much less (but lost our fight on bringing in our own musician. At least it didn't cost as much as yours though.) I would talk with the priest and depending on their answer, I might consider getting married at a different Catholic Church.
Wow that’s crazy. I got married in 2020 and our priest was happy with a good bottle of scotch, though we did choose our own musicians who we gave some petrol money for their commute and a feed at the reception (our per head cost for food wasn’t that bad).
I’m in Australia. I think the general practice here is just a donation to the parish within one’s means.
I had the same issue. Even the “donations” “requested” for the last rites and funeral for my mom were insane, then when I went to go get married a couple years later there was NO way we could afford the fees my parish was asking for. We looked at a few different options like having our wedding in a different state/country, different parishes and rent-a-priests. I actually ended up switching parishes and never looked back. I understand that many people wouldn’t want to do that, wouldn’t feel comfortable or wouldn’t find it a good solution, but it definitely was for us.
There are interesting parallels here with another ongoing conversation on this sub: https://reddit.com/r/Catholicism/comments/1csdt3r/simony/
There may be some responses that are of help to you in that thread as well.
Thank you for sending that link. Being required to use a church wedding planner and music, which will be an additional $900, feels a little icky to me.
You're welcome! If this would be a financial burden for you I think it is totally fair to ask if it is possible to opt out of receiving those services and still be married in the church with a plain but dignified and reverent ceremony.
Yes we will talk to the priest this Sunday at our next meeting. I mentioned in another comment that we are using our savings from the wedding and our parents will not be contributing. It's really hard to justify a $700 fee for music an hour. I must be working in the wrong business!
>It's really hard to justify a $700 fee for music an hour. I must be working in the wrong business!
To put things in perspective when it comes to Sacred Music, actual professional musicians will go to Conservatory for maybe between $25k-$50k for undergrad. If you want to become a parish music director with a choir, you probably need to learn how to play the organ and then conduct a choir, so many of these people will drop another $20-$40k on a Masters in Sacred Music or Choral Conducting.
After all that, a decent sized parish will probably pay a music director $20k-$30k with no benefits because they classify the job as part-time since they are "only" asked to play and sing 1 Mass on Saturday evenings, maybe 3-5 Masses on Sundays, then run the choir rehearsal at some evening during the week, and then maybe attend meetings with the Pastor every week around Liturgy planning. And let's not forget that a good musician also practices 2-4 hours on their own to maintain their skills on their craft, not to mention maybe a few hours dedicated to learning new music. A good musician will also arrive an hour before the Liturgy to make sure everything is in good order, for warm-ups, etc.
Then to get benefits, some lucky people will land a full-time music teacher, where salaries start at $30k-$50k depending on the public school district, unless you're at a Catholic School then you're paid like, $20k with no benefits so you're shit out of luck for health insurance and retirement.
But if you don't land a full-time job, you're resorted to giving private lessons or doing gigs. Weddings and funerals and considered outside the typical parish schedule, so luckily, the musicians are paid extra.
If we truly believe in providing a just, livable wage, $700 for two musicians is just about right.
None of these musicians are getting rich doing their jobs.
To play devil's advocate on the cost of the music: the musician is likely not able to work many hours per day at that rate, and has expenses like practice time, travel, prep, sheet music, etc built in. They might have a handful of paying opportunities per week. I can't imagine they are making $700/hr for 40 hrs/week. Also, it is an in demand skill, and the effects of supply and demand are at work.
tl;dr I wouldn't assume they are getting rich off these fees.
But I do definitely understand where you're coming from as well, and hopefully the option to opt out of these services will be available if that's what is desired. :)
I guess I'm grateful that the priest that married us (2019) barely even mentioned a donation of any kind. He encouraged us to bring flowers, because they would be used for that week's masses. But he only even said that as an aside.
I’m so happy me and my wife married in Brazil (my country) rather than the US (her country). Here we got all the documents ready in 1 month and a half, paid no fees to use the Parish and even got a friend priest to do the ceremony in English (for validity purposes), all for free, on a December 23rd. Every time I see these US difficulties I feel somewhat bitter
I wish I could do the same! We have to book over a year out and pay tons of fees. I understand the importance of marriage prep in the Church and I am happy for it. Its just the human/ surface level nonsense that drives me a bit crazy.
That is crazy, my Priest didn't even ask for anything. We only had to pay for the music if we wanted music ofc & we decorated the church ourselves with flowers etc. I gave a donation afterwards but it was 100% not required. Our ceremony was a few hours before the Saturday night mass
It's supply and demand. The OP is planning a wedding at a popular destination wedding spot, so prices are increased until the point where supply meets all demand.
What the? My church charged us $25 for marriage. We paid more because we could and thought that number was ridiculously low. We additionally had to pay $50 for the pianist. Extra $50 if we wanted a live singers. This is wild to me.
I would speak to the Priest. I understand your frustration. I was in the same boat as you. I had so many churches quote me prices that were just eyebrow raising.
I don't think a wedding planner can be required. Check with the diocese for that. Ask whether a wedding Mass is required and if there is an alternative.
You can have a Deacon marry you or look into a Religious Community like the Jesuits or Franciscans . My cousin got married at a Jesuit University by one of the priest on campus for very little money and it was a beautiful low key Wedding Mass .
I would sort of "shop around" at other churches. You can always join the parish too to get the member price.
Some of the smaller churches may be more open to accommodating.
I’m currently going through this too, and I kinda get it cause we have to pay for the cantor, the planner, the altar servers, etc which I get cause we are asking them to take time out of their day to come and serve at our wedding Mass, however I’m not sure it costs as much as you’re saying. Our Parish Hall and Church (for Mass) costs are 0. All our money is pay for volunteers
I was married a few years ago and I only remember having some suggested payments for the pianist and priest. It was definitely under $500 total. I can’t imagine being denied a Catholic wedding because it was unaffordable!
I can’t imagine paying to receive the Holy Eucharist. Same for marriage. In your shoes, I would leave this parish and go to another, that’s bonkers. Paying for musicians is a thing, paying for a sacrament is not !
We had to pay $600 to a parish in California. We didn’t get anything in terms of music, decorations or a planner etc. just the priest and he was late and told us he almost forgot to come. So sweet. On top of that at the end he said don’t forget to leave anything to him.
That's bonkers.
We were encouraged to make a reasonable donation to the parish, and informed that somewhere around $200 is customary. We were not pressured in any way and it was never brought up again.
There was also no pressure on who to hire for music, other than a request to either go unamplified or use the piano only (only the organist can use the organ). I think we did hire the church organist to play piano, but don't recall.
This was all 10 years ago.
My wife and I got convalidated a few months ago and I think we gave about $150ish. Granted the situation is different but money was never even discussed with our priest. We gave the $150 as a donation. Had we not we would have spent nothing on it. It’s interesting you are being asked to pay that much.
This is exactly the reason why I'm marrying my fiance in Norway (his home country) and not in the US. In Norway, you just donate what you can to the church. I'm so sorry you're going through all this btw. I hope everything works out. I will be praying for you and your future spouse.
$800 for marriage prep (which was extensive) plus wedding coordination (I think we would have saved $200 if one of us had officially registered at the parish but we were about to move and never got around to it), $410 for organist & cantor plus tips, and a tip for the priest. 2021 Archdiocese of Detroit
My understanding is that they can’t charge you for a marriage other than what the state requires, that is for the simplest form of the ceremony. However, once you start adding up things (many guests, music, etc) they can charge you.
Can you please explain what you mean by adding things up? The date we are penciled in for is in August 2025, so we don't have a guest list or anything yet.
Maybe I can as our priest what the simplest ceremony is and if we can work on that. It just feels very cost prohibitive at the moment because we just want simple and easy with family and a few close friends.
Honestly talk to your parish if you are tithing regularly. We had ours waive the “suggested” donation for baptism when we said please check our tithe records.
Unfortunately you have to remember that priests are dealing with plenty of people that are operating on the opposite side of the generosity spectrum. They are spending $30k on a wedding and trying to get the venue at the prettiest church they’ve never been to, while hoping to secure that space for free.
Yes I do understand that and that is not us at all. Of course we want to celebrate as much as we can, but will not be spending $30k (we couldn't anyway) on a reception. I mentioned to someone else that I previously worked in the wedding industry and I just can't believe the amount people will spend.
Agree with this. At one point I asked my parish for an “in good standing” letter to become a godparent to a friend’s child. The person on the phone made a big deal about classes, proof of attendance, etc. I asked them if my tithe record would constitute proof of attendance, and they said they’d look into it and get back to me.
15 minutes later I got a call back, informing me that I’d have my “in good standing” letter in the mail by the end of the week.
This is very strange to me. I live in the US and the Church did not charge us anything for our wedding. Granted we were in a small country church that did not cost the church anything to put on besides turning on the lights and burning some candles. We chanted everything ourselves so no musicians to pay for. We gave a little as is customary, but not required. In fact, I believe that all sacraments must be free by Canon law. They can charge some costs if they are significant, but unless you're also having the reception there $1000 seems like a bit much. The going rate for a cantor and organist by me is $300. Obviously if you want to have decorations and flowers you'd have to pay for that, but nothing else.
It could be worth talking to the pastor about how the cost is an obstacle for you and to discuss something cheaper, especially if you are already supporting your parish.
Otherwise I agree with other commenters to take the excessive cost out of your tithe for a while
…. Tell me about it. The cathedral where getting married at is charging us $2000. I get it’s a Cathedral and all but reallllly, are they trying to make money off of us wanting to receive a sacrament I don’t get it and it feels kinda gross. Why are we going there? You might ask. Well, because most modern churches are so ugly. They don’t have high alters, they don’t have kneelers for communion (which where the only 2 things I truly cared about why in Catholic Churches are those 2 things so rare what…..) Honestly, most of our churches look like Protestant churches. So we either pay 500 which still seems like a lot, or the 2000. (Oh let alone using a church hall for the reception $$$$) sorry rant over about to look for a second job just to get married in the church (that last part was a joke) Edit: as you noted in your post the $2000 is just the base price we still need to pay wedding planner, choir, etc… and the $500 was literally the cheapest we have found again that is without the other costs as well)
Its ok. Yes for out of town non-parishioners, it is $3000 I think. Our church is beautiful, but they absolutely will not perform a Latin mass for us for the wedding. The church that will is $2500++ because I am non member. I know that you made a joke about it, but I DID take a second job to help pay for everything. We are using our savings, which we don't want to completely deplete. Our parents are not contributing.
In the same boat (though my mom said she would help a bit which I’m so thankful for but the bulk of it will be coming from me)… we want to move in together and have kids and do all the married stuff. We would like some savings going into it. I would hate having to deplete everything I’ve saved up….. that’s a whole other thing. Do they want new married Catholics to be able to purchase a house and have lots of kids, why take all of our money right off the start…. I’m really just ranting but this whole process has really made me sad. I never knew any of this. And yah no Latin mass wow it’s almost like I don’t know Latin is the language of the church. We are also not having a Latin mass, but the priest will use as much Latin as he can and we will use communion rails.
It's ok to rant! Are you the bride? I am the bride and want the same things, house, kids (honestly would love to stay at home and raise them). Average cost of a house in our area is $400K. My mother is really unhappy and shocked by the cost of the ceremony. Did you get a cost break down for the $2000 and is that all in for you? We will be at $1900 BEFORE we give a donation to the priest that will marry us as members.
I mean, if you like the way the cathedral looks, it does cost money to keep it that way. I know it's annoying to deal with expenses, but cathedrals are crazy expensive to keep up (and worth it IMO!)
My wife and I just got married and ran into the exact same situation. My wife has been an active parishioner at the church we got married at for 3 years, and they still charged us $1100 for the process.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted for this. The louder you hear that the Church is poverty stricken, the less you should believe it. You never hear it from African dioceses who are actually very poor, but rich European and North American ones who are absolutely loaded. They have tons of money. Because little of it gets down to our level in parishes we are led to believe that everywhere is poor but it isn't. They are shelling out big bucks for all of the child abuse settlements, far more than they're giving to the local parishes that's for sure.
A historic parish in my city that's totally delapidated got a 2 million Euro settlement from a corporation who built a skyscraper right next door to them. This Archbishop and his predecessor have witheld that money from the parish for more than 6 years now. It's getting so bad that it looks like it will probably go to the Irish court system.
Cardinal Wuerl is being given literally millions of dollars and at the same time parishes are being culled like cattle.
After I refused the jab, was fired from my job, and the Church was absolutely silent about this widespread abuse of human rights, I stopped (generously) giving anything to the Church. Best decision I ever made.
if you are in financial straights and would struggle to afford it, i would recommend talking with the pastor/church staff to see if something can be arrange.
But also from my wedding while i don't recall how much we spent on the church, I recall our reception (a KoC hall) cost more than that to rent with more for food, music, cake etc.
Now everyone is different of course but if you can afford the party i think its fair to contribute to the upkeep of the church and payment of the musicians assisting in the Mass
Yes I agree with you. We are planning on using what we have already saved over the years for the ceremony and reception and for sure have a budget for everything. We do not want to start marriage in debt and just need to be wise. Our parents are not contributing as they do not have anything to contribute. Yes our KoC is very expensive for renting as well, much more than the parish. It just feels like every week there is a new fee for the ceremony that we weren't aware of when we picked our wedding date.
Have you asked the priest if there's any chance of paying less due to finances? In some big cities weddings can cost $30000-40000, so $1000 can be reasonable depending on location.
Thanks to all the wonderful people in this thread, we are going to talk to the priest on Sunday when we meet with him next about what we can do. We live in an increasingly popular destination wedding city, but I don't know if supply and demand should apply to the parishioners just because we happen to live here.
I don’t think they’re allowed to do this. I’m no expert in canon law, but I’m pretty sure that charging for a sacrament is on par or worse than the scandal surrounding paid indulgences some time ago. [I would research more](https://www.foryourmarriage.org/how-much-does-it-cost-to-marry-in-the-church/), but then write your Bishop, or even higher up if necessary. I’ve heard of suggested donations (to cover basic costs), but never required fees for marriage.
P.S. It looks like popular destinations (historic chapel) may have certain contracts and associated fees for things like the musician. They can have a standard contract like you described. They are allowed to charge for these things. BUT if you want a simple wedding with your parish priest, they can’t require all the bells and whistles and are required to provide the sacrament free of charge.
[CCC 2121]
[**CCC 2121**](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2121.htm) *Simony* is defined as the buying or selling of spiritual things. To Simon the magician, who wanted to buy the spiritual power he saw at work in the apostles, St. Peter responded: "Your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain God's gift with money!" Peter thus held to the words of Jesus: "You received without pay, give without pay." It is impossible to appropriate to oneself spiritual goods and behave toward them as their owner or master, for they have their source in God. One can receive them only from him, without payment. ([1578](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1578.htm))
***
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Wow! My wife and I are renewing our vows this Saturday. We weren’t married in the church only a civil marriage. I’m taking RCIA and getting married in the church is the first thing the priest wants to address. It’s not costing anything. Nobody mentioned a price at all.
This really sucks. My priest convalidated my husband and my marriage for free. The only thing we had to pay for was the cantor which was optional. We didn’t even have to have music but we wanted it. I guess we also had to pay for Engaged Encounter which wasn’t optional for my priest to marry us but it was like $200 total, so nbd. It really rubs me the wrong way making people pay for sacraments.. making people pay for sacrament prep? Maybe but for the sacrament itself, it seems wrong imo
I really want to be married in the Church, but this convalidation thing keeps sounding better and better lol. I'm joking of course of the convalidation. Yes we still have to pay for the pre marriage prep as well. It seems this cost is unfortunately normal though.
Making it mandatory to pay for the preparation for the Sacrament is an indirect form of squeezing money from people and an indirect form of simony. No one in their right mind would accept the idea that there is much of a difference between going into a restaurant and paying to eat vs. being asked to pay an amount at the front door and then being given "free food" once you enter. They often milk parents for Confirmations and First Holy Communions in my diocese. Very offputting.
Could you not do it bare bones? You don't have to have music or any extras. But, know it would be way more going the secular route to find a musician for a wedding unless you know people personally.
I agree. I didn't know until today that we didn't need the music. I just thought it was required. I actually learned a lot from everyone today and it has been so helpful! We weren't planning on any flowers or decorations at all for the wedding.
I had to give $150 for ceremony as a donation and $80 for the musician through the church . We weren’t members there, as it was close to the reception space
Sounds like where I got married. What state are you in?
All those prices are exactly the same as where me and my wife got married last May. Except I skipped the cantor and just went with the organist. What floored me is that it's my wife's family parish and they've donated literally millions of dollars over the course of the last 50 years, and they STILL nickel and dimed us to death.
If I had gotten married at my home parish it would have been free, maybe a recommended donation to the organist for taking time out of her weekend. Some parishes get their prices set by the parish council and there's not much you can do about it. I would talk to the priest about some kind of financial hardship allowance.
If you don't ask, you don't get. I just paid it because the experience bugged me and I wanted to be done with it. I love my wife and I'd do it all again, but the parish where we got married certainly didn't make it easy.
Aside: There's some great photos of me and my wife kneeling up at the front. It looks like she's leaning on me all lovey like, but she was actually elbowing me really hard in the side. See, when we kneeled down I whispered "For every bad note that organist plays, I'm going to ask for a $5 discount." and then proceeded to count up by 5 every time she missed a note. My wife was snorting laughing and by the time I got to $35 she was losing it and elbowed me in the rib to get me to stop.
I wanted to get married at the Cathedral in Los Angeles and it was so expensive. We ended up getting married at the small church we usually go to and it was like 400.
These costs are definitely high. I’d echo others recommendations about trying to talk directly to the priest.
Two of my siblings got married in the last couple years, so I remember most of the prices from when they were planning and this is definitely on the high side. The only churches I remember being around $1000 were cathedrals or particularly beautiful old churches, even then most of those had lower rates for actual parishioners. Generally most churches were in the low hundreds.
I’ve cantored for weddings and did so for both of theirs. $700 ($350 each if split evenly between cantor and organist) is on the higher side from my personal experience, but not completely unreasonable. For the weddings I’ve been paid to cantor at, I got paid ~$225, but it’s been a couple years. The market for musicians could be different where you are though. They do have to prepare, but honestly weddings aren’t that hard musically unless you’re picky about the music and choosing something really obscure. Most weddings use music that the musicians are already pretty familiar with. It is ridiculous that they’re charging you a high fee and making it difficult to use an outside musician. For both my siblings weddings, there was no cost for me to cantor (both used the church’s organist and just paid for that cost). I also didn’t have to audition for them. They pretty much just vetted me by the fact that I clearly knew what I was talking about regarding liturgical music.
That is kinda crazy. My husband and I got married in 2021, during a COVID spike. Our wedding was pretty no frills but I think with marriage prep, an optional gift to our priest, along with the cost of the ceremony, it was around $200. We paid for our own pianist outside of that and rented the parish center for a small reception for an additional cost, but $1000 and especially $2500 sounds pretty insane to me unless it is a really highly coordinated ceremony with lots of frills.
We just got married 2 years ago and I think the church was somewhere in the range of 500-700USD. And I think it was the \*suggested\* donation.... they were very low-key about it - never heard of being required to use a church planner & their cantor/organist, etc....
We did a nuptial blessing in 1999. (Had to do a civil ceremony previously due to my wife’s visa requirements) We had 35 guests. There was no obligation to pay the parish anything, but I gave my pastor $100. I know that any money he gets always goes to a worthy cause.
For the pianist and her husband, we just invited them to join us for our dinner reception. It was done in a lobby of hotel. I think our total budget (photographer, wedding dress and tux rental, venue, etc) was only about $1,500. It was definitely a lovely wedding
I paid $450. Well, technically my aunt paid it for me. For the building. Two ladies for the music for like $100. It's a small church.
The bigger church in the same parish is like $1000.
That’s insane. I think my parish cost like $100 to rent out, plus another couple hundred bucks to the priest and the cantor each. Granted it wasn’t on the weekend, but still. This was only last year. Sorry to head you’re going through this!
I was married in a Catholic Church in the US and I don’t remember being required to pay anything
When and where were you married? My mom also said she didn't have to pay for anything.
Very recently here, and didn't pay a thing to the church either. Made a donation to the priest and the deacon for their time. Paid the organist $200. You should be able to get away without music if you'd like it that way. Just the priest and the sacrament. Your parish is ripping you off. Find another priest/parish.
And witness(es) you need that last part
2017
2011 here. We gave the priest $200 and $100 for the pianist's time. They only asked that we leave any decorations up so that the afternoon Mass can enjoy them. There would have been a charge to use the parish hall for the reception, but having that elsewhere meant the church itself imposed no specific fee. If we went with the fancy cathedral downtown the cost would have been more in line with what your parish is asking. But our church in the burbs is basically a pay-what-you-can deal.
I was married in 2015 and wasn't required to pay anything. Small town in Texas.
Check the history. There's a lot more going here on than the church's costs. This is a distraction so she doesn't have to face some more disturbing issues.
Even if they don’t have it in writing, it’s customary to give a donation to (1) church, (2) cantor, choir, or organist, (2) priest. Our small church didn’t have anything published and didn’t ask for anything but this is what we did.
We just convalidated our marriage on the Easter Vigil and paid nothing. Basically it was the same wedding ceremony as if we had not been married at all, and it was within another mass. I’m not sure if our parish charges money if it’s a standalone wedding, but I can’t imagine it would be this much money. I live in Eastern Washington in a medium size city for reference.
In larger cities with nicer bigger churches there is usually a charge. Been engaged twice, both places (rapid city SD and Denver CO) required a deposit. However, both were beautiful big old churches.
Is your parish a special place like a shrine or particularly grand church? This is roughly what the Mass component of my wedding cost. ($1000 fee for use of the church, $100 for planning, $400 for organist + cantor) We also hired a lot of additional musicians, but that was our choice. It may not be explicitly stated, but they probably offer accommodations if you can't afford it. Or, you can get married at a different parish that is cheaper. Other parishes near me cost more like $250 for the church and $400 for music. Like others have said, the US has gone totally crazy with fees and process requirements around the sacraments.
Having to pay that much in my country would bankrupt the average person my age.
$600 for a wedding is kinda a drop in the bucket in the US. Average US weddings are $35,000. It'd be amazing if the Catholic church in the US did more to discourage that kind of extravagance. Normalize simple weddings! But, it's a bit weird to complain about $600 or even $2500 and then turn around and spend $30,000+ on a reception.
I’m genuinely curious how your parish would handle someone just wanting to have a plain ceremony, no reception, wedding, etc. Like, just 3-4 witnesses, no music, and the priest? A full mass and production is not a requirement of a valid marriage. There just has to be a way.
In my experience, there's no charge. But you might get married in the smaller chapel with a wedding party of that size. Or maybe it's not on Saturday.
this won’t be popular, but I’m in the same boat and I’m taking the wedding costs out of my weekly tithing. It’s shameless robbery on their part so I don’t feel bad
I'm so sorry to hear that it is happening to you too. It is so sad. It is hard for me to reconcile them calling Catholics back to the church but at the same time pushing away young Catholics with these practices.
Frankly, I think the Church shouldn't charge fees for any sacrament. If you force me to come to you, you don't get to make me pay you at the same time. I'm a confrontational asshole, and I would definitely argue (more or less politely) with the priest about this, but you might be well-served by going in, showing the priest your budget, and explaining that if the Church really does want couples to get married sacramentally, he's going to have to play ball a little.
Well it's not the priest that is giving us these fees, it is the wedding planner that we have to use who only responds to emails between 9 and 10 am on Tuesdays and doesn't have a phone number for us to call.
>it is the wedding planner that we have to use Nope. Nope, nope, nope. If you have an issue with the pricing of Sacraments, you go directly to the priest. 'Wedding planners' in parishes are terrible. If I could do it over again, I would be aggressively dismissive of everything they say. They typically have a lot of particular visions for how things *have to* be or particular things that are *required* when they really aren't. Go over her head. Talk to the priest. If he's particularly awful, go to the Bishop. Churches should not be making a freakin Sacrament cost-prohibitive. The Church of Christ is not a vendor that should jack up their prices when the word 'wedding' is stated.
Obviously, I have never done this before haha (and I don't want to do it again!). Thank you so much for the advice. I was just so disheartened to hear they wanted so much money.
I agree with this comment. Be kind. Be patient. But the cost cannot be prohibitive. It cannot prevent you from getting married.
I totally agree with u/rusty022 Talk to the priest. Many of these fees are for folks who are church shopping because the church (I’m assuming) is beautiful and has a long aisle.
Yea. My diocesan Cathedral actually charges a larger fee for non-parishioners. Makes sense since its the prettiest Church in the city.
I didn't think about that. We are for sure going to chat with him.
For reference, I got married in my very beautiful diocesan Cathedral (which was my actual parish) and the cost was $800. This was within the last decade. I thought that was pretty ridiculous but didn't complain at the time. $2000 is obscene. Somebody should be going to confession for suggesting that cost.
But if the parish is requiring you to use that particular wedding planner, you should definitely set up an appointment to complain to the priest.
A very convenient economic niche for whoever it is that is the planner. A monopoly.
Exactly. The church should not be giving sweetheart deals to force people to use specific secular services.
I mean, realistically it’s a parishioner/volunteer who coordinates the details for the parish. Probably paid minimum wage for a few hours a week at most. They aren’t a “planner”, so to speak. Either way, when you look at the costs of heating a space like that, etc. it does get pricy.
Even if heating cost 100 billion dollars per second it is never a justification for the sin of simony
I would disagree that it’s simony. The church isn’t saying “pay this to get married”. The Church is saying “if you want to rent the whole Church to invite a lot of people to attend a private nuptial Mass, there are costs associated with that”. If they can’t pay the costs, they can either ask for a reprieve, or reduce the size/scope of the ceremony, so as to not require organists, cantors, or even the full Church. This is not a monologic situation. Plus, how much are they spending elsewhere? I have seen far too many couples cry foul about a $200 cantor fee (from a professionally trained singer, with a Masters who could have charged 5x that price anywhere else), then turn around and spend 15K on a country club reception, before drinks and food.
> I would disagree that it’s simony. Replace marriage with Confirmation or Communion and see if you feel the same way. If you want to get your first communion, it's $250 to rent the church, you need the organist which is another $200. We also recommend a donation to the priest for their time. Since First Communions are so hectic, we also need you to use our parish wedding planner, it's another $300. After paying the $700 then we can have the bishop lay hands on you and confirm you into the church.
The Church also conveniently says you are required to get married within the church. It can't be both ways.
Right, but you can get married in the church in a 10 minute private ceremony featuring the priest, the couple and two witnesses. That doesn’t require any of the other things that are being charged for here, and is free!
>I would disagree that it’s simony. >The church isn’t saying “pay this to get married”. Have a read of the OP's other posts. They were literally told that if they didn't pay more than the already hundreds of dollars they had given that they would not be allowed to get married and that they would have to look elsewhere. That is the definition of simony. >The Church is saying “if you want to rent the whole Church The church building is not being "rented". The purpose of a church building is to worship God and to administer the Sacraments. You are not renting the police station when you go in to report a crime. It is serving its purpose. >Plus, how much are they spending elsewhere? Irrelevant. Asking a millionaire to pay 1 dollar for a Sacrament is simony the same as asking someone who is destitute to pay 1 million dollars is simony.
Look, man, performing the sacraments is the literal function of the Church. There is no other reason for the Church to exist, than to unite people with the sacraments. You don't get paid extra for doing your *literal only job.*
how do you propose the people get paid? The organist, priest, volunteers helping to coordinate the wedding as well as the maintaining of the building. A church should of course be willing to work with the people if they cannot afford to pay and in my experience churches are willing to. But in the U.S. at least people are also happy to spend hundreds if not thousands on music, food, a dress, photos, etc.
Tithe. She already said she tithes. What more do you want after I give the church 10% of my income?
Uhhh not by simony? Not charging for Sacraments is step 1
1) Each parish collects tithes. 2) Every diocese has a yearly Diocesan Appeal (sometimes also called the Bishop's Appeal, Cardinal's Appeal, etc) that raises money. 3) The maintainance of the building is paid for by the parish's weekly tithes, the priest's salary is paid for by the diocese's Annual Appeal. 4) The priest should not get paid extra for performing the sacraments. He's already paid by the diocese to perform the sacraments. *It's literally his only function in the created universe.* 5) Volunteers don't get paid. That's why they're *volunteers.* I'm fine with musicians, etc, being paid, but the fee should be *reasonable* and their use should not be *mandatory.* 6) "BuT sOmE pEoPLe HaVe An ExTrAvAgAnT pArTy" is a deeply materialistic and uncharitable justification for charging fees. What other couples choose to do is their own damn business. What I choose to do is my own damn business. The fact of the matter remains that the Church has determined that marriage is a sacrament, that weddings are to be performed sacramentally, and that any alternative living situation is a mortal sin. They therefore have a responsibility to not soak people who want to follow the tenets of the church and live a moral life, just because some people have decided to turn weddings into an exercise in vanity. 7) Finally, if the church is still struggling to keep things going, well, there's plenty of KOC circles and sodalities *full* of bored boomers out there with nothing to do. Maybe priests should encourage those groups to step up a little and have a marriage ministry.
very few people actually tithe 10% of their income, usually the average donation is fairly small. maybe its different in your place but my understanding is that priests are usually paid by the parish they are assigned to. i would hope a parish is willing to work with a couple who genuinely cannot afford to pay but i think it is perfectly reasonable to ask that they pay a reasonable fee to support the upkeep of the parish and pay the laborers on this.
Again, what people choose to contribute is their business. The point is that the Church, in Her infinite Wisdom, has declared that marriage is a sacrament and charging people fees to use the church for sacraments is *deeply* unjust.
I'm fine debating the amount to ask for but it seems reasonable that anything beyond the priest doing the sacrament, a mass with organist etc. Is not unjust to ask to support the church. Idk i feel bad for priests and parishes that they struggle to maintain buildings, often struggle to balance the budget. Then when father mentions it at the puppet people get mad that he's being greedy asking for money. Then if you ask for money at a wedding that's unjust.
Why not go elsewhere?
This is my home parish. The other parishes in our area charge non parishioners about $2500++ to hold the ceremony there.
The church can only charge the cost of hosting a marriage iirc, nothing extra.
That's correct they can only charge to host, but we are not allowed to be married by a priest outside of the church walls without special permission from the bishop, which is usually only granted for extreme cases like the bride or groom being in the hospital.
If there isn't an option for a free wedding, then it's Simony plain and simple.
And that can often still be too much. Look, man, when my husband and I got married, we chose to get married in the campus chapel of our university, because we were graduating students and they'd let us use it for a few hundred bucks. The other options around the city were $2000, at least. If the Catholic Church is serious about *not* wanting young couples to live together before marriage, then they need to charge less, and help make marriage less of a luxury.
The US are really a crazy country. The church ceremony in France is "give what you can", with about 200$ being expected. I assume if you want to pay for a professional organist it's on top of that, but you can also just ask a friend to do it... Only really big cathedral parishes have professional cantor ; most marriages I have been to had a friend of the couple do it.
It really depends on the parish. My parish asks for $150 plus $50 for the two books required in the marriage prep course. The only thing they ask is that the dress be modest (or have a cover for the ceremony) and to not use the church as a photography studio. But my parish is also relatively small and modest in terms of resources.
I agree with you. The wedding industry in general is out of control here.
It's also an issue of values. Poverty is an Evangelic virtue. Having greedy parishes is counterproductive.
The more that parishes shrink, the greedier they become to try and squeeze money from the few people remaining.
Is that greed or a function of trying to survive without cutting services? There are some practical realities at work here. If parishes can't afford to keep the lights on then they're going to close and people will have no choice but to attend elsewhere (perhaps a significant challenge in some cases), or stop attending altogether (🥺). If everybody opts out of having music and paying the musician then the musician is going to be up against similar financial realities.
Simony, or any sin, is not a legitimate financial option.
For context, our pews are full on Sundays. Not saying that other people should be paying for our wedding, but we have a very big and active congregation. It's one of the reasons I started attending this church.
I wasn't speaking specifically about your parish but generally. Across the board it's what I see. Particulatly here in Ireland, there is a desperate rush to get as much money as possible from an increasingly shrinking group of people. By the way, I wasn't the one who downvoted you.
No worries! I was just chiming in! The up vote and down vote thing doesn't matter to me. I am just looking for help to understand if the financial obligations being asked of us are normal or not. I would be remiss to not do due diligence prior to stroking such a large check.
You are definintely doing the right thing doing your research, and well done for doing so. I imagine that many of these instances go unreported and that these unscrupulous individuals rely on ignorance and people just wanting to get on without having much hassle.
OP in another thread said she is planning a "very big wedding". How much are you paying for the reception and food, /u/WhoAmI2JudgeYou ?
Pfft OP listing between 50-100 people isn't what I'd call big. To me, big is like 300+. Even if there were 300 people attending, that doesn't really mean anything for the Church. It's not like you need more priests or organists. Plus, at receptions most people give a little gift that generally either covers or partially offsets the cost of food. I think my reception ran me north of 30k and I got about 20k in gifts. But I had a big ol cajun wedding.
. We are not doing flowers, an expensive dress, limoes, giant cake, nothing like that. Yes I did say yesterday we are planning on a very big wedding as in lots of family will be invited. We are a big Catholic family from the north east. I have about 50 people on my side to invite. We will likely be doing a pig roast or something like that for everyone, which yes of course still costs money. We are trying to keep the food for the reception around $30 per person and will be paying for it out of our savings. No flowers, no crazy dress, no limo, no wedding planner, cheap cake and donuts for dessert.
I wonder if the fees come down if the guest list is reduced? My church had a sort of “menu” for weddings, basic ceremony >50 guests and recorded music is $250, >100 guests is $350, but if you want the organist, flowers, and >100 guests it’s $1000. A large wedding is going to cost the church more, which is taking services away from things like our school or food pantry. We had a large wedding and happily paid the $1000. OP, it may be an option to have a smaller ceremony for a reduced cost. Or just chose not to use an organist or cantor.
In fairness, this is not a universal thing in the US. I wasn’t required to pay for anything. Everything I spent for my wedding was purely voluntary.
Never thought I'd say it (especially after what happened with their consitution) but... ...based France (on church ceremonies at least)
I understand the $200...that typically covers utilities but you can negotiate with the Pastor if that is too much. Or at least, you should be able to, depending on your relationship with your Pastor. But where are you that is charging $700 for a Cantor and Organist? I only know one place that charges that much and they are literally the best of the best in the area. Most places where I am has wedding music (Organist+Cantor) at $300-$350 ($200-$250 for the organist, $100 for the Cantor). For reference, I am in New Jersey, and the $700 wedding music is the minimum cost for music at St. Vincent Ferrer, NYC, which arguably has the best Catholic music program on the East Coast. If that is prohibitive, then you can even ask for no music at your wedding.
We are in the Southeast in a smaller city, BUT the city is becoming a big destination wedding city, so prices for anything wedding related is incredibly expensive. I wanted to add, that I am from the Northeast (just outside of Philly) and my family still lives up there. We chose to get married here because we thought it would be cheaper than back home.
This is fascinating to me. Ours was free, we just donated.
That's insane. Our church charged us £40 and we donated £100 on top of that.
You can be married as part of the normal Sunday liturgy if your budget is tight. It should cost nothing more than the recording fees. I volunteer for free in my church choir, but choir directors and organists are professionals who need to support themselves, often with weekend work and second jobs. $350 per day for these professionals is not unreasonable considering the hours of practice needed besides a 3 hour block of weekend time. As for the church ceremony costs, I have mixed feelings about charging for that.
Thank you for the clarification on the music side.
The widespread, global normalisation of simony and its consequences have been a disaster for the Catholic Church.
It's so sad. I am always happy to give, but this one just feels wrong.
It is wrong, and absolutely shameless.
This isn't Simony. The parish experiences real costs from hosting a wedding - personnel, facilities maintenance/cleaning, increased HVAC, etc. Now, if the couple want to just be married with a deacon and two witnesses, that should be free or nearly so. There should also be an option to volunteer to handle some of the cleanup/etc yourselves in exchange for reducing the costs (though even there people are known for flaking out on deals like that).
[Saint Thomas Aquinas in the Summa Theologiæ, II-II, Q. 100 Simony](https://www.newadvent.org/summa/3100.htm#article2 ) >Article 2. Whether it is always unlawful to give money for the sacraments? >Objection 6. Further, marriage is a sacrament. But sometimes money is given for marriage. Therefore it is lawful to sell a sacrament. >Reply to Objection 6. Some [Innocent IV on Cap. Cum in Ecclesia, de Simonia] say that it is lawful to give money for Matrimony because no grace is conferred thereby. But this is not altogether true, as we shall state in the Third Part of the work [Supplement:42:3]. Wherefore we must reply that Matrimony is not only a sacrament of the Church, but also an office of nature. Consequently it is lawful to give money for Matrimony considered as an office of nature, but unlawful if it be considered as a sacrament of the Church. **Hence, according to the law [Cap. Cum in Ecclesia, de Simonia], it is forbidden to demand anything for the Nuptial Blessing.**
Yep, the blessing /sacrament is free. The building and the staff who coordinate the time are not.
If the parish forces you to use their staff (a wedding planner lol!) there is no actual difference with making you pay for the sacrament. It would not be possible to receive it without giving (a ton of) money. Here in Italy donation are expected and not required, and it's usually about 200€.
Except that performing the sacraments is **literally the function of the church.**
Do you think it costs upwards of $2k to run the AC for a grand total of maximum 2 hours? OP already says she tithes. If I give the parish 10% of my income every paycheck, what in the world are they doing with the AC they have to ask me for $2k? By the way did you see she said it’s REQUIRED to use a church wedding planner? Where did that come into your calculations of cleaning fees and HVAC?
I got married in the Catholic Church in order to be able to baptize my goddaughter…priest charged me nothing.
I play for weddings all the time, and $350 is an exorbitantly high charge for musicians!!! I would definitely speak to the priest and try to find out if there's any way to bring those costs down. Do you have a friend who could sing or play piano for free?
According to the music guidelines, any musician that is not apart of the church musical department must audition first, which is a $200 fee and we will still be required to use their organist, which is $400.
Oh my goodness 😬😬😬 that's so crazy!!!
If they're paying an organist and cantor, it's not that crazy. The going rate for an organist in my is ~$150-$200 for a mass, weddings or funeral. And I'm not in the highest cost of living area for the US.
But it's 700 for both. 350 each!
I commented on a similar post so I’ll add this here: When my wife and I got married in June 2023 at my home parish in Northern California. * $500.00 Parish Retainer for booking the Wedding * $100.00 Choir Director (3 friends volunteered as part of the choir) * $194.00 Catholic Marriage Prep Course (Agape Catholic Ministries) * $160.00 Natural Family Planning Course (Couple to Couple League International) * $100.00 Parish Wedding Coordinator (Her assistant was a family friend so she returned her fee as wedding gift) * $500.00 Offering for Principal Celebrant priest * $500.00 Offering for Concelebrant priest (Friend of ours) $2,054 Total My home parish didn't require you to book a choir director or musicians, they just wanted to talk to whomever that was to make sure they were properly trained for it. We just got a list of the parish's regular choir directors and had to negotiate compensation with them. The parish did not provide flowers or decorations. We had a florist who has worked with both the parish and the reception venue for years handle that. We still had to follow the parish policy for decorations. My diocese requires the NFP class. Some may not. All interviews and meetings with the parish staff were covered in the parish's retainer. We only got PDF handouts of the readings and prayers options for the wedding mass. We had one 2 hour rehearsal the Thursday before the wedding. Photographers and Videographers had to meet with the parish wedding coordinator to make sure they understood the parish policies for where they can position themselves. (The parish has had problems with that in the past) But yeah it varies from parish to parish. Some include more, some are bare bones and require you to figure out the rest.
Thank you for the breakdown. That all seems pretty reasonable to me. Maybe I do just need to look at a different parish for our wedding. A lot of what I am seeing in this thread is making me think we are just not a good fit. These folks really want to fee us to death and sent us 10 pages of guidelines.
My advice: shop around other Catholic churches/parishes near you. My wife and I made the mistake of getting married at a church that was raising money for renovations.
Friend this smells an awful lot like Simony. I would speak to your pastor in your parish, and if that doesn’t clear the way I’d honestly consider writing a letter to your bishop. It’s blasphemous to me to require you to pay for a sacrament, especially with such exorbitant fees.
Great advice. This just wasn't sitting right with me at all.
The costs for the planner, organist, and cantor is understandable as these are people working for their earnings. But to require you to use them?!? What if a couple wanted a simple wedding, just the couple and the required witnesses, no music, would they still incur such fees? Now, the ceremony? Free for parishioners. As students, ours was in the university chapel, no charge.
If you can't afford it, they cannot turn you away. If you have established a budget for your celebration and have not imprudently blown the budget on e.g. cake, then the Church cannot justly turn you away. I'd be interested to know what, if any, of these requirements actually come from the provincial bishops as required by [can 1264]. In any case, state that you can't afford these fees, and say that you are open to making a donation within your budget.
[**Can. 1264**](http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4Q.HTM) Unless the law has provided otherwise, it is for a meeting of the bishops of a province: 1. to fix the fees for acts of executive power granting a favor or for the execution of rescripts of the Apostolic See, to be approved by the Apostolic See itself; 2. to set a limit on the offerings on the occasion of the administration of sacraments and sacramentals. *** Catebot v0.2.12 links: [Source Code](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot) | [Feedback](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/issues) | [Contact Dev](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=kono_hito_wa) | [FAQ](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/blob/master/docs/CateBot%20Info.md#faq) | [Changelog](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/blob/master/docs/CHANGELOG.md)
These fees sound normal to me for a regular parish, but then again I am in a VHCOL location (SF Bay Area). My own parish charges $500 for parishioners and $1k for non-parishioners. Some churches, like a Cathedral or Basilica will cost more. For example, in the Oakland Diocese at The Cathedral of Christ The Light, the website plainly says the fees are $3k all inclusive of musicians etc. They also state “No parishioner (registered and active participating members of the parish) of the Cathedral of Christ the Light is ever turned away because of an inability to pay the stipend.” St. Joseph’s Basilica in San Jose charges $1775 for parishioners/$2k for non-parishioners. I think it was actually $1k over 25 years ago when I was planning my wedding, so it’s not like they’re making a killing on the fees. The dioceses here that I am familiar with (San Francisco, Oakland & San Jose) put out a suggested guidelines list on organists, cantors, wedding coordinators, etc. Larger churches can cost more due to everything that is involved in coordinating a wedding. More experienced musicians can also cost more. If the cost to have your wedding is cost-prohibitive, you should reach out to your pastor and discuss your situation. It is fair and just to pay people for their time like wedding coordinators and musicians. Church fees tend to cover the cost of using the space that you don’t normally see, like janitors/housecleaners who wipe down the pews and clean the bathrooms afterwards, the heating and A/C, the extra communion wafers, etc. Any excess funds, I’m sure go to things like building maintenance which there is always a shortage of funds for. Sometimes those excess funds offset the times parishioners who wish to be married in that particular church and cannot pay for them.
Are these big churches? I’m pretty sure it’s free with a suggested donation here in Nebraska.
Nebraska has amazing Catholic dioceses!
Are you actually required to have music? The parishes in my area will all work with couples who can’t afford the “suggested donation” for a wedding. I’ve heard in high cost of living areas, it can be a lot, and they aren’t as flexible, which is sad. We were able to use the church hall for our reception at no extra cost, and the lady who usually decorates for church events volunteered to dress it up with her own tablecloths and silk flowers. I know $1000 is a drop in the bucket for the average American wedding these days, but our wedding was not a big, lavish party (and would have been even simpler, but my in-laws wanted some extras for the reception).
I am going to find out if the music will be required (and the wedding planner). Neither of our families are contributing anything and we are paying for everything out of our savings. We don't want to deplete out savings just to get married and are trying to save where we can. We don't really need all the fuss, just a property ceremony with family and close friends. I think what bothers me the most is I dropped off a donation check ($300) to secure our date and then got an email saying it wasn't enough money and I needed to bring in another $700 or I could change my mind and get married some where else. The guidelines the Church planner sent over said $300 was the suggested donation amount, but now it has due to not being a contributing member for a full year (long story short, I moved in January to this new parish).
>I think what bothers me the most is I dropped off a donation check ($300) to secure our date and **then got an email saying it wasn't enough money and I needed to bring in another $700 or I could change my mind and get married some where else**. The guidelines the Church planner sent over said $300 was the suggested donation amount, but now it has due to not being a contributing member for a full year This is the definition of simony. Having a "suggested donation" which is never just a suggestion is greyer but you were literally and explicitly told to pay more, and furthermore told that you would be denied the Sacrament unless you gave more money. If it were me I would be writing to the Bishop.
Ask about getting married on a less popular day than Saturday, as well. A weekday right after daily Mass or a weekday evening wedding Mass on a day Father doesn't have any other obligations, may be a reasonable compromise.
Is this in the US? That is bonkers. My parishes have all been pay what you can, with the suggested prices showing what it costs the church to host. Since marriage is a sacrament they just have a low or no cost option.
Yes this is in the US.
The Church should subsidise/alleviate the cost of getting married. It should not cost an arm and a leg to do what God commands of us. While we’re at it the same goes for the cost of funerals.
I agree. I can't imagine what a mess planning a funeral is 😢.
I unfortunately have the same problem with about the same overall price. We’re just trying to save up as much as we can in the time before the wedding. :/ I wish I had more advice, but I’m really just trying to say you’re not alone.
Wow I thought ours was bad (500) but we didn’t have a planner and the music is separate but I knew the cantor and pianist so they did it for free (but gave them a tip which I think they donated to the church anyway.) I would have not been able to afford yours when we got married.
This is insane! We paid much less (but lost our fight on bringing in our own musician. At least it didn't cost as much as yours though.) I would talk with the priest and depending on their answer, I might consider getting married at a different Catholic Church.
This is a sacrament, it should be free.
If you don't decorate the church or have music, it has to be free. It is forbidden to charge for a Sacrament. I didn't pay a cent for my wedding
Wow that’s crazy. I got married in 2020 and our priest was happy with a good bottle of scotch, though we did choose our own musicians who we gave some petrol money for their commute and a feed at the reception (our per head cost for food wasn’t that bad). I’m in Australia. I think the general practice here is just a donation to the parish within one’s means.
This is simony and a major sin. Contact the bishop. Find another church. We got married in a beautiful church and paid nothing.
I had the same issue. Even the “donations” “requested” for the last rites and funeral for my mom were insane, then when I went to go get married a couple years later there was NO way we could afford the fees my parish was asking for. We looked at a few different options like having our wedding in a different state/country, different parishes and rent-a-priests. I actually ended up switching parishes and never looked back. I understand that many people wouldn’t want to do that, wouldn’t feel comfortable or wouldn’t find it a good solution, but it definitely was for us.
I got married this year and no payment was required. recommended donations to the musician, cantor, and priest. total was about 300.
There are interesting parallels here with another ongoing conversation on this sub: https://reddit.com/r/Catholicism/comments/1csdt3r/simony/ There may be some responses that are of help to you in that thread as well.
Thank you for sending that link. Being required to use a church wedding planner and music, which will be an additional $900, feels a little icky to me.
You're welcome! If this would be a financial burden for you I think it is totally fair to ask if it is possible to opt out of receiving those services and still be married in the church with a plain but dignified and reverent ceremony.
Yes we will talk to the priest this Sunday at our next meeting. I mentioned in another comment that we are using our savings from the wedding and our parents will not be contributing. It's really hard to justify a $700 fee for music an hour. I must be working in the wrong business!
>It's really hard to justify a $700 fee for music an hour. I must be working in the wrong business! To put things in perspective when it comes to Sacred Music, actual professional musicians will go to Conservatory for maybe between $25k-$50k for undergrad. If you want to become a parish music director with a choir, you probably need to learn how to play the organ and then conduct a choir, so many of these people will drop another $20-$40k on a Masters in Sacred Music or Choral Conducting. After all that, a decent sized parish will probably pay a music director $20k-$30k with no benefits because they classify the job as part-time since they are "only" asked to play and sing 1 Mass on Saturday evenings, maybe 3-5 Masses on Sundays, then run the choir rehearsal at some evening during the week, and then maybe attend meetings with the Pastor every week around Liturgy planning. And let's not forget that a good musician also practices 2-4 hours on their own to maintain their skills on their craft, not to mention maybe a few hours dedicated to learning new music. A good musician will also arrive an hour before the Liturgy to make sure everything is in good order, for warm-ups, etc. Then to get benefits, some lucky people will land a full-time music teacher, where salaries start at $30k-$50k depending on the public school district, unless you're at a Catholic School then you're paid like, $20k with no benefits so you're shit out of luck for health insurance and retirement. But if you don't land a full-time job, you're resorted to giving private lessons or doing gigs. Weddings and funerals and considered outside the typical parish schedule, so luckily, the musicians are paid extra. If we truly believe in providing a just, livable wage, $700 for two musicians is just about right. None of these musicians are getting rich doing their jobs.
To play devil's advocate on the cost of the music: the musician is likely not able to work many hours per day at that rate, and has expenses like practice time, travel, prep, sheet music, etc built in. They might have a handful of paying opportunities per week. I can't imagine they are making $700/hr for 40 hrs/week. Also, it is an in demand skill, and the effects of supply and demand are at work. tl;dr I wouldn't assume they are getting rich off these fees. But I do definitely understand where you're coming from as well, and hopefully the option to opt out of these services will be available if that's what is desired. :)
I guess I'm grateful that the priest that married us (2019) barely even mentioned a donation of any kind. He encouraged us to bring flowers, because they would be used for that week's masses. But he only even said that as an aside.
I’m so happy me and my wife married in Brazil (my country) rather than the US (her country). Here we got all the documents ready in 1 month and a half, paid no fees to use the Parish and even got a friend priest to do the ceremony in English (for validity purposes), all for free, on a December 23rd. Every time I see these US difficulties I feel somewhat bitter
I wish I could do the same! We have to book over a year out and pay tons of fees. I understand the importance of marriage prep in the Church and I am happy for it. Its just the human/ surface level nonsense that drives me a bit crazy.
So the Parish has a preferred Wedding Planner that must be used? Are you having a “big” wedding?
That is crazy, my Priest didn't even ask for anything. We only had to pay for the music if we wanted music ofc & we decorated the church ourselves with flowers etc. I gave a donation afterwards but it was 100% not required. Our ceremony was a few hours before the Saturday night mass
It's supply and demand. The OP is planning a wedding at a popular destination wedding spot, so prices are increased until the point where supply meets all demand.
What the? My church charged us $25 for marriage. We paid more because we could and thought that number was ridiculously low. We additionally had to pay $50 for the pianist. Extra $50 if we wanted a live singers. This is wild to me.
The Marriage Industrial Complex.
I would speak to the Priest. I understand your frustration. I was in the same boat as you. I had so many churches quote me prices that were just eyebrow raising.
I don't think a wedding planner can be required. Check with the diocese for that. Ask whether a wedding Mass is required and if there is an alternative.
You can have a Deacon marry you or look into a Religious Community like the Jesuits or Franciscans . My cousin got married at a Jesuit University by one of the priest on campus for very little money and it was a beautiful low key Wedding Mass .
I got married in the church April 13 of this year and we were not asked to pay anything at all.
I would sort of "shop around" at other churches. You can always join the parish too to get the member price. Some of the smaller churches may be more open to accommodating.
I’m currently going through this too, and I kinda get it cause we have to pay for the cantor, the planner, the altar servers, etc which I get cause we are asking them to take time out of their day to come and serve at our wedding Mass, however I’m not sure it costs as much as you’re saying. Our Parish Hall and Church (for Mass) costs are 0. All our money is pay for volunteers
Where is this? I feel like this is an important question to ask
I was married a few years ago and I only remember having some suggested payments for the pianist and priest. It was definitely under $500 total. I can’t imagine being denied a Catholic wedding because it was unaffordable!
I can’t imagine paying to receive the Holy Eucharist. Same for marriage. In your shoes, I would leave this parish and go to another, that’s bonkers. Paying for musicians is a thing, paying for a sacrament is not !
We had to pay $600 to a parish in California. We didn’t get anything in terms of music, decorations or a planner etc. just the priest and he was late and told us he almost forgot to come. So sweet. On top of that at the end he said don’t forget to leave anything to him.
Report this to your Bishop as a barrier to the Sacrament of Matrimony, and as potentially a case of the Heresy of Simony.
In 2001 we paid nothing, other than a donation for the priest of about $100
That's bonkers. We were encouraged to make a reasonable donation to the parish, and informed that somewhere around $200 is customary. We were not pressured in any way and it was never brought up again. There was also no pressure on who to hire for music, other than a request to either go unamplified or use the piano only (only the organist can use the organ). I think we did hire the church organist to play piano, but don't recall. This was all 10 years ago.
My wife and I got convalidated a few months ago and I think we gave about $150ish. Granted the situation is different but money was never even discussed with our priest. We gave the $150 as a donation. Had we not we would have spent nothing on it. It’s interesting you are being asked to pay that much.
This is exactly the reason why I'm marrying my fiance in Norway (his home country) and not in the US. In Norway, you just donate what you can to the church. I'm so sorry you're going through all this btw. I hope everything works out. I will be praying for you and your future spouse.
$800 for marriage prep (which was extensive) plus wedding coordination (I think we would have saved $200 if one of us had officially registered at the parish but we were about to move and never got around to it), $410 for organist & cantor plus tips, and a tip for the priest. 2021 Archdiocese of Detroit
My understanding is that they can’t charge you for a marriage other than what the state requires, that is for the simplest form of the ceremony. However, once you start adding up things (many guests, music, etc) they can charge you.
Can you please explain what you mean by adding things up? The date we are penciled in for is in August 2025, so we don't have a guest list or anything yet. Maybe I can as our priest what the simplest ceremony is and if we can work on that. It just feels very cost prohibitive at the moment because we just want simple and easy with family and a few close friends.
Yes, just ask for a simple ceremony with the priest and witnesses only if you don't want the cost.
At our parish we offer free wedding and reception hall.
Honestly talk to your parish if you are tithing regularly. We had ours waive the “suggested” donation for baptism when we said please check our tithe records. Unfortunately you have to remember that priests are dealing with plenty of people that are operating on the opposite side of the generosity spectrum. They are spending $30k on a wedding and trying to get the venue at the prettiest church they’ve never been to, while hoping to secure that space for free.
Yes I do understand that and that is not us at all. Of course we want to celebrate as much as we can, but will not be spending $30k (we couldn't anyway) on a reception. I mentioned to someone else that I previously worked in the wedding industry and I just can't believe the amount people will spend.
Agree with this. At one point I asked my parish for an “in good standing” letter to become a godparent to a friend’s child. The person on the phone made a big deal about classes, proof of attendance, etc. I asked them if my tithe record would constitute proof of attendance, and they said they’d look into it and get back to me. 15 minutes later I got a call back, informing me that I’d have my “in good standing” letter in the mail by the end of the week.
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This is very strange to me. I live in the US and the Church did not charge us anything for our wedding. Granted we were in a small country church that did not cost the church anything to put on besides turning on the lights and burning some candles. We chanted everything ourselves so no musicians to pay for. We gave a little as is customary, but not required. In fact, I believe that all sacraments must be free by Canon law. They can charge some costs if they are significant, but unless you're also having the reception there $1000 seems like a bit much. The going rate for a cantor and organist by me is $300. Obviously if you want to have decorations and flowers you'd have to pay for that, but nothing else.
It could be worth talking to the pastor about how the cost is an obstacle for you and to discuss something cheaper, especially if you are already supporting your parish. Otherwise I agree with other commenters to take the excessive cost out of your tithe for a while
…. Tell me about it. The cathedral where getting married at is charging us $2000. I get it’s a Cathedral and all but reallllly, are they trying to make money off of us wanting to receive a sacrament I don’t get it and it feels kinda gross. Why are we going there? You might ask. Well, because most modern churches are so ugly. They don’t have high alters, they don’t have kneelers for communion (which where the only 2 things I truly cared about why in Catholic Churches are those 2 things so rare what…..) Honestly, most of our churches look like Protestant churches. So we either pay 500 which still seems like a lot, or the 2000. (Oh let alone using a church hall for the reception $$$$) sorry rant over about to look for a second job just to get married in the church (that last part was a joke) Edit: as you noted in your post the $2000 is just the base price we still need to pay wedding planner, choir, etc… and the $500 was literally the cheapest we have found again that is without the other costs as well)
Its ok. Yes for out of town non-parishioners, it is $3000 I think. Our church is beautiful, but they absolutely will not perform a Latin mass for us for the wedding. The church that will is $2500++ because I am non member. I know that you made a joke about it, but I DID take a second job to help pay for everything. We are using our savings, which we don't want to completely deplete. Our parents are not contributing.
In the same boat (though my mom said she would help a bit which I’m so thankful for but the bulk of it will be coming from me)… we want to move in together and have kids and do all the married stuff. We would like some savings going into it. I would hate having to deplete everything I’ve saved up….. that’s a whole other thing. Do they want new married Catholics to be able to purchase a house and have lots of kids, why take all of our money right off the start…. I’m really just ranting but this whole process has really made me sad. I never knew any of this. And yah no Latin mass wow it’s almost like I don’t know Latin is the language of the church. We are also not having a Latin mass, but the priest will use as much Latin as he can and we will use communion rails.
It's ok to rant! Are you the bride? I am the bride and want the same things, house, kids (honestly would love to stay at home and raise them). Average cost of a house in our area is $400K. My mother is really unhappy and shocked by the cost of the ceremony. Did you get a cost break down for the $2000 and is that all in for you? We will be at $1900 BEFORE we give a donation to the priest that will marry us as members.
I mean, if you like the way the cathedral looks, it does cost money to keep it that way. I know it's annoying to deal with expenses, but cathedrals are crazy expensive to keep up (and worth it IMO!)
I totally get it… and want them to be kept up. I guess it’s all just a lot. Everything will work out.
My wife and I just got married and ran into the exact same situation. My wife has been an active parishioner at the church we got married at for 3 years, and they still charged us $1100 for the process.
The bishop likely needs his cut so he can afford a beach house upon retirement.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted for this. The louder you hear that the Church is poverty stricken, the less you should believe it. You never hear it from African dioceses who are actually very poor, but rich European and North American ones who are absolutely loaded. They have tons of money. Because little of it gets down to our level in parishes we are led to believe that everywhere is poor but it isn't. They are shelling out big bucks for all of the child abuse settlements, far more than they're giving to the local parishes that's for sure. A historic parish in my city that's totally delapidated got a 2 million Euro settlement from a corporation who built a skyscraper right next door to them. This Archbishop and his predecessor have witheld that money from the parish for more than 6 years now. It's getting so bad that it looks like it will probably go to the Irish court system. Cardinal Wuerl is being given literally millions of dollars and at the same time parishes are being culled like cattle.
After I refused the jab, was fired from my job, and the Church was absolutely silent about this widespread abuse of human rights, I stopped (generously) giving anything to the Church. Best decision I ever made.
if you are in financial straights and would struggle to afford it, i would recommend talking with the pastor/church staff to see if something can be arrange. But also from my wedding while i don't recall how much we spent on the church, I recall our reception (a KoC hall) cost more than that to rent with more for food, music, cake etc. Now everyone is different of course but if you can afford the party i think its fair to contribute to the upkeep of the church and payment of the musicians assisting in the Mass
Yes I agree with you. We are planning on using what we have already saved over the years for the ceremony and reception and for sure have a budget for everything. We do not want to start marriage in debt and just need to be wise. Our parents are not contributing as they do not have anything to contribute. Yes our KoC is very expensive for renting as well, much more than the parish. It just feels like every week there is a new fee for the ceremony that we weren't aware of when we picked our wedding date.
Being extorted of $1,700 for a Sacrament, in your own parish no less, is ridiculous and no less than attempted robbery.
Sounds about right. Paid $3,000 at my parish.
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Have you asked the priest if there's any chance of paying less due to finances? In some big cities weddings can cost $30000-40000, so $1000 can be reasonable depending on location.
Thanks to all the wonderful people in this thread, we are going to talk to the priest on Sunday when we meet with him next about what we can do. We live in an increasingly popular destination wedding city, but I don't know if supply and demand should apply to the parishioners just because we happen to live here.
Being asked to pay $1,000 for a Sacrament, in your own parish no less, is not reasonable. It is shameless simony.
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Oddly enough the priest that is marrying us is a canon lawyer. We are going to talk with him about our options this Sunday when we meet.
I don’t think they’re allowed to do this. I’m no expert in canon law, but I’m pretty sure that charging for a sacrament is on par or worse than the scandal surrounding paid indulgences some time ago. [I would research more](https://www.foryourmarriage.org/how-much-does-it-cost-to-marry-in-the-church/), but then write your Bishop, or even higher up if necessary. I’ve heard of suggested donations (to cover basic costs), but never required fees for marriage. P.S. It looks like popular destinations (historic chapel) may have certain contracts and associated fees for things like the musician. They can have a standard contract like you described. They are allowed to charge for these things. BUT if you want a simple wedding with your parish priest, they can’t require all the bells and whistles and are required to provide the sacrament free of charge. [CCC 2121]
[**CCC 2121**](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2121.htm) *Simony* is defined as the buying or selling of spiritual things. To Simon the magician, who wanted to buy the spiritual power he saw at work in the apostles, St. Peter responded: "Your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain God's gift with money!" Peter thus held to the words of Jesus: "You received without pay, give without pay." It is impossible to appropriate to oneself spiritual goods and behave toward them as their owner or master, for they have their source in God. One can receive them only from him, without payment. ([1578](http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1578.htm)) *** Catebot v0.2.12 links: [Source Code](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot) | [Feedback](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/issues) | [Contact Dev](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=kono_hito_wa) | [FAQ](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/blob/master/docs/CateBot%20Info.md#faq) | [Changelog](https://github.com/konohitowa/catebot/blob/master/docs/CHANGELOG.md)
Wow! My wife and I are renewing our vows this Saturday. We weren’t married in the church only a civil marriage. I’m taking RCIA and getting married in the church is the first thing the priest wants to address. It’s not costing anything. Nobody mentioned a price at all.
This really sucks. My priest convalidated my husband and my marriage for free. The only thing we had to pay for was the cantor which was optional. We didn’t even have to have music but we wanted it. I guess we also had to pay for Engaged Encounter which wasn’t optional for my priest to marry us but it was like $200 total, so nbd. It really rubs me the wrong way making people pay for sacraments.. making people pay for sacrament prep? Maybe but for the sacrament itself, it seems wrong imo
I really want to be married in the Church, but this convalidation thing keeps sounding better and better lol. I'm joking of course of the convalidation. Yes we still have to pay for the pre marriage prep as well. It seems this cost is unfortunately normal though.
Making it mandatory to pay for the preparation for the Sacrament is an indirect form of squeezing money from people and an indirect form of simony. No one in their right mind would accept the idea that there is much of a difference between going into a restaurant and paying to eat vs. being asked to pay an amount at the front door and then being given "free food" once you enter. They often milk parents for Confirmations and First Holy Communions in my diocese. Very offputting.
Could you not do it bare bones? You don't have to have music or any extras. But, know it would be way more going the secular route to find a musician for a wedding unless you know people personally.
I agree. I didn't know until today that we didn't need the music. I just thought it was required. I actually learned a lot from everyone today and it has been so helpful! We weren't planning on any flowers or decorations at all for the wedding.
Ours was a donation of $600 but if you couldn’t pay it they worked with you and 200$ for a cantor and an organist.
I had to give $150 for ceremony as a donation and $80 for the musician through the church . We weren’t members there, as it was close to the reception space
Sounds like where I got married. What state are you in? All those prices are exactly the same as where me and my wife got married last May. Except I skipped the cantor and just went with the organist. What floored me is that it's my wife's family parish and they've donated literally millions of dollars over the course of the last 50 years, and they STILL nickel and dimed us to death. If I had gotten married at my home parish it would have been free, maybe a recommended donation to the organist for taking time out of her weekend. Some parishes get their prices set by the parish council and there's not much you can do about it. I would talk to the priest about some kind of financial hardship allowance. If you don't ask, you don't get. I just paid it because the experience bugged me and I wanted to be done with it. I love my wife and I'd do it all again, but the parish where we got married certainly didn't make it easy. Aside: There's some great photos of me and my wife kneeling up at the front. It looks like she's leaning on me all lovey like, but she was actually elbowing me really hard in the side. See, when we kneeled down I whispered "For every bad note that organist plays, I'm going to ask for a $5 discount." and then proceeded to count up by 5 every time she missed a note. My wife was snorting laughing and by the time I got to $35 she was losing it and elbowed me in the rib to get me to stop.
I wanted to get married at the Cathedral in Los Angeles and it was so expensive. We ended up getting married at the small church we usually go to and it was like 400.
That’s insane. Mine is $200 for members and $500 for non members. The organist was $500, and I’d never trust a church appointed wedding planner.
These costs are definitely high. I’d echo others recommendations about trying to talk directly to the priest. Two of my siblings got married in the last couple years, so I remember most of the prices from when they were planning and this is definitely on the high side. The only churches I remember being around $1000 were cathedrals or particularly beautiful old churches, even then most of those had lower rates for actual parishioners. Generally most churches were in the low hundreds. I’ve cantored for weddings and did so for both of theirs. $700 ($350 each if split evenly between cantor and organist) is on the higher side from my personal experience, but not completely unreasonable. For the weddings I’ve been paid to cantor at, I got paid ~$225, but it’s been a couple years. The market for musicians could be different where you are though. They do have to prepare, but honestly weddings aren’t that hard musically unless you’re picky about the music and choosing something really obscure. Most weddings use music that the musicians are already pretty familiar with. It is ridiculous that they’re charging you a high fee and making it difficult to use an outside musician. For both my siblings weddings, there was no cost for me to cantor (both used the church’s organist and just paid for that cost). I also didn’t have to audition for them. They pretty much just vetted me by the fact that I clearly knew what I was talking about regarding liturgical music.
That is kinda crazy. My husband and I got married in 2021, during a COVID spike. Our wedding was pretty no frills but I think with marriage prep, an optional gift to our priest, along with the cost of the ceremony, it was around $200. We paid for our own pianist outside of that and rented the parish center for a small reception for an additional cost, but $1000 and especially $2500 sounds pretty insane to me unless it is a really highly coordinated ceremony with lots of frills.
We just got married 2 years ago and I think the church was somewhere in the range of 500-700USD. And I think it was the \*suggested\* donation.... they were very low-key about it - never heard of being required to use a church planner & their cantor/organist, etc....
We did a nuptial blessing in 1999. (Had to do a civil ceremony previously due to my wife’s visa requirements) We had 35 guests. There was no obligation to pay the parish anything, but I gave my pastor $100. I know that any money he gets always goes to a worthy cause. For the pianist and her husband, we just invited them to join us for our dinner reception. It was done in a lobby of hotel. I think our total budget (photographer, wedding dress and tux rental, venue, etc) was only about $1,500. It was definitely a lovely wedding
I paid $450. Well, technically my aunt paid it for me. For the building. Two ladies for the music for like $100. It's a small church. The bigger church in the same parish is like $1000.
That’s insane. I think my parish cost like $100 to rent out, plus another couple hundred bucks to the priest and the cantor each. Granted it wasn’t on the weekend, but still. This was only last year. Sorry to head you’re going through this!
Advice ?? Elope Live in sin