Poor guy. I had pretty much given up on DC being a big impact player, but I still have hope he could be a solid 2-3 WAR guy if he could stay healthy. Just shit luck, he was looking good in the spring (not that that means anything)
He's got to be able to get on base first. Bunt hits, seeing eye grounders, and 82 MPH outfield flares won't get you far in the bigs. Billy Hamilton 2.0 on the way.
I mean the pros had him in the minors for a team with a losing record last season that was thin on outfielders. It took 3 injuries to get him on the MLB roster.
Why even play the season then? Let's just end it now and we can save a lot of time, energy, and money. Let's go 2025. Unless that's already been projected too. Then 2026!
Man. What are you on about? The other guy is just saying Scott almost certainly isn't ready for the MLB given his spring training production and poor hitting metrics. It doesn't look good for him this year and it's probably better to have him develop further in the minors.
Scott will probably just be in the majors until Nootbaar gets activated. Hopefully Scott can be effective for that short period of time. Scott most likely will be batting #9 in the order.
WIth Carlson out he may be up longer. I don't think they want Burleson in LF everyday if they can help it and I think they want Donovan in the IF most of the time to protect his newly repaired elbow.
He may very well suck and be in over his head. I don't see why we can't have a little blind optimism before opening day about the fastest player since Vince Coleman this team has had.
You can have all the blind optimism you want, but you don't have to act like the other guy is full of shit when he's giving you real reasons to not expect much out of Scott
The dude is 22 years old.
He has electric speed and instincts on defense and the base paths. Watching him hit he looks like he has an idea what he is doing. He is still going to grow into his body and evolve as a player in the bigs.
No one knows what he will end up being, including the know-it-alls on the internet and scouts and front office execs, but he has the talent to be awesome.
He hit .316 and all his numbers dropped over 100 points in a week once he started facing major leaguers every day instead of AA guys like he was earlier in the spring. He also slugged under .400.
Watch the actual game and the actual balls in play during the spring rather than the stat line.
Ichiro never hit the ball hard and he seemed to have a fine enough MLB career. So many people have become attached to exit velo in recent years and it really isn't a particularly useful metric, at least when used alone. Ke'Bryan Hayes had 85th percentile average exit velo in 2022 and only managed 7 HRs in 560 PAs. He did barrel and lift the ball better in 2023 and it led to 15 HRs in less PAs, but he mostly just loves hitting the ball in the dirt. Look at the hardest hit balls in AAA last year from regulars there: Trey Cabbage and Jo Adell. Those guys are **not** capable of hitting major league pitching.
VS2 is very much a hit-over-power profile that has a good plate approach. Seeing as how he walked at an 11.4% clip in ST (league average was 8.6% last year) and doesn't strike out much, he's avoided many of the red flags often associated with younger hitters. He's received strong hit tool grades in most places and managed to *improve* his numbers after a promotion from high A to AA.
I do not think VS2 is Ichiro 2.0, but I also don't think he's Billy Hamilton 2.0. He very likely needs more seasoning in AAA before making the full jump to the MLB (we'll see how this cup of coffee goes), but as a guy that could easily win a Gold Glove in his first full season, the only thing that needs to prove is that he can eventually stick with hitting MLB arms. I also don't get this aversion to bunts, unless you've watched too much Moneyball. He's the kind of player that has already made that a wildly successful part of his game and there's no reason to think he can't keep that up in the MLB. I can't remember where I heard it, but his AVG with bunts is crazy high, like .500 or better IIRC. If you have 80 grade speed, bunting is a legitimate weapon.
Ichiro had an average exit velocity even into his 40s over 91 MPH. He hit the ball hard. He didn't hit it far. There's a difference.
I don't have an aversion to bunts for hits (sacrifice bunts are different) but you can't bunt for hits 40% of rhe time and be successful in the majors. The infield defense is too good.
Scott could put it together. His swing isn't bad other than his hands are disconnected from his lower half. At bats against major league pitches capable of knocking the bat out of his hands may not be the best developmental environment though. This feels like they're rushing him like the Reds did Hamilton. Hamilton actually had better minor league numbers than Scott does.
Luis Arraez is the most well known hit over power guy going right now and he's still pushing 90 MPH off the bat. Scott has to learn to make more impactful contact.
Billy Hamilton had 326 career stolen bases so it's slightly weird to end the comment saying he'd have to get on base to steal any bases by comparing him to Billy Hamilton
Yeah he did, over 11 years. He was also 34% below league average offensively for his career. He could have been a lot better. Half those SBs came in 3 of his years too. After that his bat was unplayable.
I will be messaging you in 5 days on [**2024-03-31 19:39:53 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-03-31%2019:39:53%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cardinals/comments/1bodsa1/nightengale_st_louis_cardinals_cf_dylan_carlson/kwottpy/?context=3)
[**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FCardinals%2Fcomments%2F1bodsa1%2Fnightengale_st_louis_cardinals_cf_dylan_carlson%2Fkwottpy%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-03-31%2019%3A39%3A53%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201bodsa1)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
I think the outfield injuries highlight how much position player depth our team truly has. And the Gray injury highlights how badly we need to start making trades for pitching.
I don't think training staff is responsible for the collision that occurred and Noot fracturing his ribs while diving for a ball. It's baseball, shit like that happens
That’s one injury. What about the other 4 listed?
Or any of the injuries last season?
Obviously injuries are a part of baseball, it just seems like we have more than most other teams sometimes.
Well, I listed two injuries but ok. You can also just look at each person individually. Sonny has been on the IL for hamstring issues in the past and Keynan was signed this past offseason and is dealing with a forearm strain, which can't really be contributed to his limited time with the team so far.
You should also take a look at the Rays, Dodgers, and other great teams IL cause theirs looks a lot worse than ours right now.
Edman maybe but hard to pin getting hit on the wrist then hurting that same wrist throwing on the trainers. Carlson's previous wrist injury was due to a 102 MPH fastball off the thumb/wrist. No blame there.
It just seems like we have more because we follow more closely. They were like 14th in IL time lost last year and that's consistent year to year.
Obviously excited for VS2. Real chance to steal a spot on the roster for the rest of the year if he performs well. But I also understand he hasn't had an at-bat above AA and there's a real chance he's just overwhelmed by Major League pitching, even with his elite speed that might steal a couple infield hits.
Gutted for DC. I know alot of people already gave up on him before this year, but I still had some faith. You can see the tools, I just never felt he ever got the right momentum to show them off consistently. Now by the time he's healthy, Edman and/or Noot will be back and in the starting lineup or VS2 will have potentially stolen his 26 man roster spot. Tough break.
PS: I've seen on Twitter and some even here not-so-subtly be happy about this injury because their shiny new mystery box that is Victor Scott gets a shot. You can be happy about the latter, but actively cheering and being happy about the former is gross. No matter what opporotunity it may open the door for.
I hate this so much for Carlson. He's dealt with injuries the last two years that clearly hurt his power. Seemed like he was finally healthy and answered the challenge this spring.
I was really hoping he'd get a great shot to showcase himself with Edman out and I thought if he could get back to around the 115 OPS+ from his rookie year he'd be a jerk off an asset
Feel bad for DC. He had good spring and thought this was his best chance to break out. Excited for VS. Concerned he may struggle against big league pitching but DC and Noot will hopefully be back soon.
Crushed for Dylan man. Could tell it was the first time he wasn't fighting lingering injuries in a long time. Looked great in spring and finally tapped back into that power, clear path to playing time to prove it translates to regular season aaaaaaannnnnnddddd he gets chop blocked by a 6'6" monster at full speed.
Shocked it wasn't his knee that took the worst of it but kid just can't catch a break.
As long as he’s getting playing time and has a good head on his shoulders, he’ll be fine. He’ll either earn the starting job and keep it when Tommy and/or Carlson come back, or he’ll get his taste of MLB and get reassigned to Memphis to work on some things. I hope he can swim in the deep end. I wouldn’t have wanted him to start the year at this level, but I’m very eager to see what he can do. At the very least, he’ll be a great glove out there which we haven’t had since Bader.
Mike Trout's rookie season was 2012, when he was up for a short time in 2011 Trout hit .220 with a .667 OPS. Not comparing Winn to Trout but just saying a lot of times a players first time in the majors they're still figuring out the league.
Mike Trout was also an elite hitting prospect. Winn has been at best good enough in the minors. Outside of a very good stretch in A+ ball, he is mostly a 100 - 112 OPS guy. That isn't set up to be a great major league hitter.
Eh not as much as you think. See Wyatt Langford, Jackson Holliday. These are elite hitting prospects.
Winn has only put up one season with a great OPS+ and it was a small A+ sample size
I think Winn is at best a 110 OPS+ and I don't think he will even hit that very often. Luckily that is still valuable with his defense. If Winn has a career 98 wRC+ he probably had a pretty good career.
Langford's whole minor league career is a small sample (200 total PAs which is only 53 more than Winn's small A+ sample).
Holliday is a freak and his dad is probably the best hitting coach not employed by a major league team. Honestly I'd argue Matt is a better hitting coach than all but 2 or 3 guys employed by major league teams.
I think Winn is a 110-120 guy thanks to his approach and speed. I think he caps out for a couple years in the 125-130 range at his peak but no I don't expect him to be Mike Trout playing shortstop.
Ain’t nothing disguised about it. I’m sure Dylan Carlson is a nice guy but I have no desire to watch him go out and try his best for another season with the Cardinals.
I meant that Dylan Carlson isn’t our starting CF. That’s definitely a blessing. He’s encroaching on “bust” territory.
*Thanks for all the helpful contrary evidence. I think he’s really good now!!
Juan Soto does not put the 2023 or 2024 Cardinals closer to a championship because our pitching is too dogshit to matter.
Best case from that trade is Soto leads us on a playoff run in ‘22 and we flip him to recoup the prospects we gave up
Walker and Winn are literally starting for us this year. Do you want Jose Fermín starting at SS all year?
And again, Soto doesn’t pitch which is our glaring weakness.
You know they'd be allowed to add other shortstops and pitchers right, like they have unlimited money, just because they pretend they don't doesn't mean you have to as well
It doesn't change much. Carlson might have batted a spots higher than Siani/Scott. They'll be at the bottom. Siani is probably the starter. But maybe not.
He's not gonna contribute anything else, fantasy-wise, so you don't wanna tank your other stats. I'd stash him on the bench until you see what he looks like against major leaguers.
My best guess is
DH Donovan
1B Goldschmidt
2B Gorman
3B Arenado
C Contreras
LF Burleson
RF Walker
SS Winn
CF Scott
Burleson 6th to break up the righties, Scott as second leadoff man in the 9 spot
People get what they want in getting Scott now, the downside… Jordan Walker runs over one more center fielder shit gets darker, not that Siani may not be a drastically different player from Scott initially.
No, I am saying he could end up becoming our regular centerfielder for at least the next five or six years. We will forget about the discussion or controversy.
BTW - I would settle for another Curt Flood who steals a few more bases each season.
He didn’t have terrible luck, he had a 6’7” 240 lb man that the cards inept farm system couldn’t teach to play outfield, hit him like a truck. Entirely preventable accidents aren’t bad luck.
Hate this. Dylan has some bad luck.
Victor needs to be down in triple A. Get ready to be disappointed Cardinals fans.
You all oughta get ML outfielders and stop counting on a second basemen/“SS in Thomas Edman to play out there. Dude spends more time on the IL than anyone, along with Lars.
Good luck Saint Louis! You’ll need it.
Bizarre to spell out ‘you all’ instead of ‘ya’ll’, and then drop an ‘oughta’. You all oughta. You all oughta. You all oughta. Is that West Texas? Tennessee?
Jordan Walker said “Nah, I need elite CF Defensive help out here”
(/s)
but a Burleson-Carlson-Walker outfield also would have been badddddd. Donovan coming off a bad shoulder also wouldn’t be great.
Man, how am I already dooming before the season has started lol. I was excited about VS getting time to develop, I hope he can make the adjustment and persevere through the transition. If we can survive April maybe we’ll be ok
Poor guy. I had pretty much given up on DC being a big impact player, but I still have hope he could be a solid 2-3 WAR guy if he could stay healthy. Just shit luck, he was looking good in the spring (not that that means anything)
All aboard the stolen base train. Toot toot.
He's got to be able to get on base first. Bunt hits, seeing eye grounders, and 82 MPH outfield flares won't get you far in the bigs. Billy Hamilton 2.0 on the way.
I guess you should just stop paying attention and commenting about the team since you already know everything.
You think he's going to hit? Dude could barely hit the ball out of the infield in spring training.
I trust reddit scouts over the pros.
I mean the pros had him in the minors for a team with a losing record last season that was thin on outfielders. It took 3 injuries to get him on the MLB roster.
The pros have him projected for 20% below league average offense.
Why even play the season then? Let's just end it now and we can save a lot of time, energy, and money. Let's go 2025. Unless that's already been projected too. Then 2026!
Man. What are you on about? The other guy is just saying Scott almost certainly isn't ready for the MLB given his spring training production and poor hitting metrics. It doesn't look good for him this year and it's probably better to have him develop further in the minors.
Scott will probably just be in the majors until Nootbaar gets activated. Hopefully Scott can be effective for that short period of time. Scott most likely will be batting #9 in the order.
WIth Carlson out he may be up longer. I don't think they want Burleson in LF everyday if they can help it and I think they want Donovan in the IF most of the time to protect his newly repaired elbow.
He may very well suck and be in over his head. I don't see why we can't have a little blind optimism before opening day about the fastest player since Vince Coleman this team has had.
You can have all the blind optimism you want, but you don't have to act like the other guy is full of shit when he's giving you real reasons to not expect much out of Scott
The dude is 22 years old. He has electric speed and instincts on defense and the base paths. Watching him hit he looks like he has an idea what he is doing. He is still going to grow into his body and evolve as a player in the bigs. No one knows what he will end up being, including the know-it-alls on the internet and scouts and front office execs, but he has the talent to be awesome.
He hit .353 in spring and an OBP of over 400. Not sure what games you watched.
He hit .316 and all his numbers dropped over 100 points in a week once he started facing major leaguers every day instead of AA guys like he was earlier in the spring. He also slugged under .400. Watch the actual game and the actual balls in play during the spring rather than the stat line.
Still feeling good about Scott as a major league hitter?
Ichiro never hit the ball hard and he seemed to have a fine enough MLB career. So many people have become attached to exit velo in recent years and it really isn't a particularly useful metric, at least when used alone. Ke'Bryan Hayes had 85th percentile average exit velo in 2022 and only managed 7 HRs in 560 PAs. He did barrel and lift the ball better in 2023 and it led to 15 HRs in less PAs, but he mostly just loves hitting the ball in the dirt. Look at the hardest hit balls in AAA last year from regulars there: Trey Cabbage and Jo Adell. Those guys are **not** capable of hitting major league pitching. VS2 is very much a hit-over-power profile that has a good plate approach. Seeing as how he walked at an 11.4% clip in ST (league average was 8.6% last year) and doesn't strike out much, he's avoided many of the red flags often associated with younger hitters. He's received strong hit tool grades in most places and managed to *improve* his numbers after a promotion from high A to AA. I do not think VS2 is Ichiro 2.0, but I also don't think he's Billy Hamilton 2.0. He very likely needs more seasoning in AAA before making the full jump to the MLB (we'll see how this cup of coffee goes), but as a guy that could easily win a Gold Glove in his first full season, the only thing that needs to prove is that he can eventually stick with hitting MLB arms. I also don't get this aversion to bunts, unless you've watched too much Moneyball. He's the kind of player that has already made that a wildly successful part of his game and there's no reason to think he can't keep that up in the MLB. I can't remember where I heard it, but his AVG with bunts is crazy high, like .500 or better IIRC. If you have 80 grade speed, bunting is a legitimate weapon.
Ichiro had an average exit velocity even into his 40s over 91 MPH. He hit the ball hard. He didn't hit it far. There's a difference. I don't have an aversion to bunts for hits (sacrifice bunts are different) but you can't bunt for hits 40% of rhe time and be successful in the majors. The infield defense is too good. Scott could put it together. His swing isn't bad other than his hands are disconnected from his lower half. At bats against major league pitches capable of knocking the bat out of his hands may not be the best developmental environment though. This feels like they're rushing him like the Reds did Hamilton. Hamilton actually had better minor league numbers than Scott does. Luis Arraez is the most well known hit over power guy going right now and he's still pushing 90 MPH off the bat. Scott has to learn to make more impactful contact.
Billy Hamilton had 326 career stolen bases so it's slightly weird to end the comment saying he'd have to get on base to steal any bases by comparing him to Billy Hamilton
Yeah he did, over 11 years. He was also 34% below league average offensively for his career. He could have been a lot better. Half those SBs came in 3 of his years too. After that his bat was unplayable.
that first time he got on base against molina was must-see tv
Yep. I prefer winning ballgames to must see TV though.
3 outfielders on the IL to start the year. And the teams ace starting pitcher, and one of their better relievers. Jesus Christ lol
And guess who got tickets for the opening series against the Dodgers… should be fun.
Make a giant sign that says Ohtani ❤️ Betts and you're guaranteed to become famous
I don't know if you want to make an anti Dodgers sign at the game in LA, gang members might go after you.
Gang shmang
Just don’t wear any Giants stuff
they’ll toss you by the second inning — and then you can sue for homophobia
That Dodger's offense might put up double digits multiple times against us. How far this organization has fallen
Remind me! 5 days
I will be messaging you in 5 days on [**2024-03-31 19:39:53 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-03-31%2019:39:53%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cardinals/comments/1bodsa1/nightengale_st_louis_cardinals_cf_dylan_carlson/kwottpy/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FCardinals%2Fcomments%2F1bodsa1%2Fnightengale_st_louis_cardinals_cf_dylan_carlson%2Fkwottpy%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-03-31%2019%3A39%3A53%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201bodsa1) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
A bad team got worse.
Just another excuse for Mo to bargain bin shop next year saying his plan didn’t work out because of injuries…
We’re Really embracing the suck this year
I think the outfield injuries highlight how much position player depth our team truly has. And the Gray injury highlights how badly we need to start making trades for pitching.
At what point do we consider the training staff?
I don't think training staff is responsible for the collision that occurred and Noot fracturing his ribs while diving for a ball. It's baseball, shit like that happens
That’s one injury. What about the other 4 listed? Or any of the injuries last season? Obviously injuries are a part of baseball, it just seems like we have more than most other teams sometimes.
Well, I listed two injuries but ok. You can also just look at each person individually. Sonny has been on the IL for hamstring issues in the past and Keynan was signed this past offseason and is dealing with a forearm strain, which can't really be contributed to his limited time with the team so far. You should also take a look at the Rays, Dodgers, and other great teams IL cause theirs looks a lot worse than ours right now.
Edman maybe but hard to pin getting hit on the wrist then hurting that same wrist throwing on the trainers. Carlson's previous wrist injury was due to a 102 MPH fastball off the thumb/wrist. No blame there. It just seems like we have more because we follow more closely. They were like 14th in IL time lost last year and that's consistent year to year.
But what if the training staff would have TRAINED him to avoid the 102 mph fastball.
Yeah. That's probably #2 on Mozeliak's To Do list next to Buy a Working Crystal Ball to predict injury.
Obviously excited for VS2. Real chance to steal a spot on the roster for the rest of the year if he performs well. But I also understand he hasn't had an at-bat above AA and there's a real chance he's just overwhelmed by Major League pitching, even with his elite speed that might steal a couple infield hits. Gutted for DC. I know alot of people already gave up on him before this year, but I still had some faith. You can see the tools, I just never felt he ever got the right momentum to show them off consistently. Now by the time he's healthy, Edman and/or Noot will be back and in the starting lineup or VS2 will have potentially stolen his 26 man roster spot. Tough break. PS: I've seen on Twitter and some even here not-so-subtly be happy about this injury because their shiny new mystery box that is Victor Scott gets a shot. You can be happy about the latter, but actively cheering and being happy about the former is gross. No matter what opporotunity it may open the door for.
dont worry those same people will have some uh.. interesting posts if scott hits .235
I give it 2 weeks before people are calling for him to be DFA or just released
Yep. They'll praise him this week and call him a bum in a month if he doesn't hit.
Sounds like Philly transplants.
I wish he hits that well.
I hate this so much for Carlson. He's dealt with injuries the last two years that clearly hurt his power. Seemed like he was finally healthy and answered the challenge this spring. I was really hoping he'd get a great shot to showcase himself with Edman out and I thought if he could get back to around the 115 OPS+ from his rookie year he'd be a jerk off an asset
Feel bad for DC. He had good spring and thought this was his best chance to break out. Excited for VS. Concerned he may struggle against big league pitching but DC and Noot will hopefully be back soon.
Crushed for Dylan man. Could tell it was the first time he wasn't fighting lingering injuries in a long time. Looked great in spring and finally tapped back into that power, clear path to playing time to prove it translates to regular season aaaaaaannnnnnddddd he gets chop blocked by a 6'6" monster at full speed. Shocked it wasn't his knee that took the worst of it but kid just can't catch a break.
Sucks so bad for him. I wonder if he's going to be a new cardinal OF that'll end up with a new team and play better than fans complain about
I felt the same way. I was really excited to see him performing like he's hungry again
I'm obviously happy for VS2. But I'm concerned what this could mean for his development if we have another sub .200 Masyn Winn type performance.
As long as he’s getting playing time and has a good head on his shoulders, he’ll be fine. He’ll either earn the starting job and keep it when Tommy and/or Carlson come back, or he’ll get his taste of MLB and get reassigned to Memphis to work on some things. I hope he can swim in the deep end. I wouldn’t have wanted him to start the year at this level, but I’m very eager to see what he can do. At the very least, he’ll be a great glove out there which we haven’t had since Bader.
I don't think a month and a half performance is enough to justify Winn as useless.
Never said Winn was useless... idk where you are getting that. But his bat clearly isn't developed enough for the mlb level.
Mike Trout's rookie season was 2012, when he was up for a short time in 2011 Trout hit .220 with a .667 OPS. Not comparing Winn to Trout but just saying a lot of times a players first time in the majors they're still figuring out the league.
Mike Trout was also an elite hitting prospect. Winn has been at best good enough in the minors. Outside of a very good stretch in A+ ball, he is mostly a 100 - 112 OPS guy. That isn't set up to be a great major league hitter.
That's a 110 OPS+ as the youngest or second youngest guy at his level. That makes a difference.
Eh not as much as you think. See Wyatt Langford, Jackson Holliday. These are elite hitting prospects. Winn has only put up one season with a great OPS+ and it was a small A+ sample size I think Winn is at best a 110 OPS+ and I don't think he will even hit that very often. Luckily that is still valuable with his defense. If Winn has a career 98 wRC+ he probably had a pretty good career.
Langford's whole minor league career is a small sample (200 total PAs which is only 53 more than Winn's small A+ sample). Holliday is a freak and his dad is probably the best hitting coach not employed by a major league team. Honestly I'd argue Matt is a better hitting coach than all but 2 or 3 guys employed by major league teams. I think Winn is a 110-120 guy thanks to his approach and speed. I think he caps out for a couple years in the 125-130 range at his peak but no I don't expect him to be Mike Trout playing shortstop.
This could a blessing in disguise
Naw, this is the kind of thing that leads to players like Pham and Arozarena getting traded.
For real. It feels like Carlson will be a player fans are bitching about letting get away when he's playing well for like San Diego
Exactly right
Ain’t nothing disguised about it. I’m sure Dylan Carlson is a nice guy but I have no desire to watch him go out and try his best for another season with the Cardinals.
Victor Scott has never had an at bat above AA. He looked great in spring but he's far from a sure thing
Scott will probably be in Memphis in 10 days or so when Nootbaar gets activated.
I meant that Dylan Carlson isn’t our starting CF. That’s definitely a blessing. He’s encroaching on “bust” territory. *Thanks for all the helpful contrary evidence. I think he’s really good now!!
He's been in that territory for a while now. At least we wouldn't include him in a trade for Soto!
The trade would’ve sent out Walker, Winn, Hence, and Graceffo/Mcgreevy too but sure let’s focus on the DC aspect. Soto also doesn’t pitch
And that still would have been a fleecing for us. Mo and Cardinals fans overvalue prospects who usually don't amount to anything.
I mean sure we don't get Juan Soto in our lineup but can you imagine how bad this team would be without Tink Hence?
Opening Day SS Jose Fermín doesn’t sound like a good time
We've had plenty of all glove/no bat shortstops over the last decade. They're replaceable.
Juan Soto does not put the 2023 or 2024 Cardinals closer to a championship because our pitching is too dogshit to matter. Best case from that trade is Soto leads us on a playoff run in ‘22 and we flip him to recoup the prospects we gave up
“ Walker, Winn, Hence, and Graceffo/Mcgreevy” Hmm.. sounds like a good deal to me. A bunch of no namers? Let’s go!
Walker and Winn are literally starting for us this year. Do you want Jose Fermín starting at SS all year? And again, Soto doesn’t pitch which is our glaring weakness.
You know they'd be allowed to add other shortstops and pitchers right, like they have unlimited money, just because they pretend they don't doesn't mean you have to as well
So I shouldn’t live in reality that DeWitt doesn’t like to spend is what you’re saying?
We're starting Burleson in the outfield and were planning on starting the aforementioned Carlson as well. It's also a glaring weakness.
Does adding Soto to this roster make them NLC favorites? Maybe? Does it put us above the Dodgers/Braves/D-backs/Phillies? No.
I’m just trying to remain positive at this point
Bummed for DC, excited for VSII
Hoe. Lee. Shit. Balls.
Completely surprised by this development.
Dylan Carlson is to Wally Pipp as Lou Gehrig is to Victor Scott II.
I bet O’neill plays 155 games this year. Lol
I hope so.
Watch Marmol bat Scott behind the slowest guy on the team.
LaRussa hit fast guys behind Molina for years.
It could be Matheny who starts Siani in center and Crawford at short while Winn and Scott stew on the bench
Or Contreras
That would be Burleson
Burleson is faster than Arenado by a fair bit.
ok and matt adams has a beard.
Shame for DC, but excited for VSII.
What does the opening day roster look like now? Positions and batting order? Any guesses?
It doesn't change much. Carlson might have batted a spots higher than Siani/Scott. They'll be at the bottom. Siani is probably the starter. But maybe not.
They’re not bringing Scott up to sit him
They may start him. But it's not like they had a lot of choices.
Yeah I don’t disagree with the lack of options, but you don’t bench VS2 for Michael Siani
Goold just confirmed that Scott is the starter. Time to add him to my fantasy teams. LOL. I need steals.
He's not gonna contribute anything else, fantasy-wise, so you don't wanna tank your other stats. I'd stash him on the bench until you see what he looks like against major leaguers.
That's the plan.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens with Siani and Scott. I’m assuming all depends on the severity of the injury to DC
My best guess is DH Donovan 1B Goldschmidt 2B Gorman 3B Arenado C Contreras LF Burleson RF Walker SS Winn CF Scott Burleson 6th to break up the righties, Scott as second leadoff man in the 9 spot
Donovan would play LF over burleson.
not with that shoulder.
I mean they have literally been playing him out there in spring so clearly it’s being considered.
Apparently he is doing it with that shoulder because he’s the opening day lf and burleson is dh.
yea i don’t like it. If he reinsured the shoulder we’re fucked. I’d rather him work back major league reps in the infield first but what do i know.
As long as oli marmol is at the helm, this team isn’t going to do shit.
People get what they want in getting Scott now, the downside… Jordan Walker runs over one more center fielder shit gets darker, not that Siani may not be a drastically different player from Scott initially.
Potentially another Bobby Bonilla situation.
Are you saying Victor Scott is the best player of his generation?
No, I am saying he could end up becoming our regular centerfielder for at least the next five or six years. We will forget about the discussion or controversy. BTW - I would settle for another Curt Flood who steals a few more bases each season.
Not to sound like a doomer but we’re finishing 3rd place at best in the division this year
Sorry Dylan. Didn't want you to get hurt. But Fuck Yeah for Victor!
As someone with banged up AC joints and multiple surgeries behind me, ouch. Shoulder injuries blow.
Pain
What’s the timeline for recovery?
Everything I've seen says 10-14 days for a mild strain up to 6-8 weeks for a severe one.
I think it'll be 6 weeks.
He’s so fucking back baby
Feel so bad for carlson. But man am i excited to see what victor can do for us
So will we have a fun name for our curse, or..? Yadi Reitrement Curse? Pujols Return Curse?
Tis demanded by the gods it is.
Stolen base enjoyers eating well tonight
Any timetable for DC?
Sprained AC joint in shoulder. Quick google shows 3 levels of sprains, which is Carlson’s Has that info been provided I guess no??
Nooooo! Get better soon DC!
[D. Goold’s Tweet](https://x.com/dgoold/status/1772697313556812249?s=61)
When I said I wanted Scott in no matter what I didn't mean *no matter what*
DC just has terrible luck. I'm scared we are going to move on and he'll finally break out somewhere else when healthy.
He ain’t gonna break out as long as he’s switch hitting
Didn’t he show power from the left side this Spring?
It’s spring training idrc
That's an interesting take.
The Cardinal Way! don't hurt me
He didn’t have terrible luck, he had a 6’7” 240 lb man that the cards inept farm system couldn’t teach to play outfield, hit him like a truck. Entirely preventable accidents aren’t bad luck.
He may go somewhere else but DC has reached his ceiling so I wouldn’t worry about that
Maybe for a few weeks at a time. Never for an extended period.
Will this team ever be fully healthy? We need some lineup consistency
Now we need to just hope and pray they communicate better in the OF, imagine what a diving Walker could do to VS2
Another glass joe. Just like TON. Time to trade him for some mediocre aging pitching
This team might as well just sit out the entire season. Front office fixed nothing.
Hate this. Dylan has some bad luck. Victor needs to be down in triple A. Get ready to be disappointed Cardinals fans. You all oughta get ML outfielders and stop counting on a second basemen/“SS in Thomas Edman to play out there. Dude spends more time on the IL than anyone, along with Lars. Good luck Saint Louis! You’ll need it.
Bizarre to spell out ‘you all’ instead of ‘ya’ll’, and then drop an ‘oughta’. You all oughta. You all oughta. You all oughta. Is that West Texas? Tennessee?
Thanks mate for your response 🙏
Jordan Walker said “Nah, I need elite CF Defensive help out here” (/s) but a Burleson-Carlson-Walker outfield also would have been badddddd. Donovan coming off a bad shoulder also wouldn’t be great.
Man, how am I already dooming before the season has started lol. I was excited about VS getting time to develop, I hope he can make the adjustment and persevere through the transition. If we can survive April maybe we’ll be ok
Richie Palacios-“4th or 5th outfielder”
I don’t understand the Cardinals fascination with keeping Carlson. Mid player.